Importance of doubting – and danger of blind faith

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
so let us have short prayers Prayers Prayers so today we will start with a topic that is called as faith and doubt so it is as you can see importance of faith and danger importance of doubting and danger of blind faith so when we talk about spiritual life people feel that oh you have to put faith here, why should I put faith and if I have to put faith does it mean that I have to I can’t use my intelligence so basically our modern society is generally frowns on the idea of faith why do you put faith so we will discuss how on one side it is important to put faith and the doubts can be dangerous but that is only one side, it is also true that if we put faith blindly then we can get misled so therefore we have to be careful about where we are putting faith and we should also learn that I need to be doubtful I need to have intelligent doubts so in the Srimad Bhagavatam it is described that doubt is a function of the intelligence that only an intelligent person can be doubtful, a foolish person will just believe whatever he is told but then samshayo nishchayo viparyasa that a wise person is doubtful, has doubts, no doubt but doubt so doubt is a sign of intelligence but doubt is not the only sign of intelligence that means if a person keeps doubting forever then the person will never come to any conclusion, so to understand this from a starting point of view if I am sick I need a doctor to get cured at the same time if I go first to a doctor and the doctor says we have to do a surgery which will cost you 25 lakhs and we have to do it as soon as possible and we will think if I am too gullible ok doctor has told me to do surgery, let me do surgery but if I am intelligent if I am spending, if it is a major surgery which involves risk of life so much money, then what will I do I will first go and think about it what does a doctor actually mean by this what is the exact problem what will be the solution so if something involves a big commitment, it is intelligent for me to evaluate it if I don’t evaluate it, I may get misled and sometimes what I may do is that if a doctor is telling ok ok this is the kind of cancerous cells that you have, then maybe I will consult some other friend who is a doctor and ask him is this diagnosis correct what does it mean and then we will go ahead but if I say this doctor, he might be cheating me how can I put my body and my life in his hands so I will not take any treatment and if I decide that I won’t put my faith in any doctor then what will happen it is I who will stay sick perpetually so on one side if I put faith blindly, I will I might get cheated but if I don’t put faith at all then it is I who will stay suffering so therefore there is importance of faith and danger of doubting if there is a good doctor and there is a real disease then at that time doubting the doctor will only increase my suffering but at the same time if the doctor is out to fleece people, cheat people and if I don’t doubt then I might get into trouble, I will be unnecessarily operated and I will become bankrupt for no good reason so in one sense in real life also we understand that faith is important when I go to a doctor and take his treatment actually I am putting faith in him we may not want to use the word faith but we are putting faith in him because the doctor knows so much about the field that we don’t know about and we can never know entirely about that field we can try to get awareness of consumer rights or some patient rights or whatever but ultimately it’s an act of faith, going to a doctor and taking treatment is an act of faith but it is not blind it should not be blind faith it has to be intelligent faith let me intelligently evaluate what is the doctor saying and then does it make sense then I take the decision, this is the basic theme over here so when we study scriptures this is the attitude of a doubtful person ultimately Krishna is there with the source of the scriptures so how does it work so one of the first things that gives us faith is the quality, nature, enunciation and behaviour of the pure devotees of God, these are distinctly different from materialistic people materialistic people whatever they do ultimately they have an agenda, they want to grab things from us but when we come to devotees, we’ll find that these are somewhat different you may have experienced in your first year itself, most of your other seniors will come to rag you but you come and meet the wise seniors they appear to be different species only they are not biologically, behaviourally biologically they are similar but behaviourally they seem to be different species what kind of, these are generally we’ll find that they are gentle, caring, helpful self-controlled and they are also knowledgeable, so actually our faith in God generally gets stimulated when we meet those who are devoted to God without meeting those who are devoted or dedicated to God our faith in, even if we have some faith in God because of our earlier culture or our past life practises, that faith remains abstract and theoretical it becomes real and tangible when we meet the devotees of God, this is generally the beginning point materialistic people are selfish and there are some people who are like tyrannical people who are out to exploit and kill people but devotees are on the other extreme, so one is one person is okay, I will I want my enjoyment whether it causes harm to others or not other people I want to destroy others so that I can enjoy, that is the other extreme but devotees they may take up troubles themselves so that others can actually be more happy, more productive more comfortable in lives so Lord Krishna tells in the Bhagavad Gita that can you see it let’s show the same thing here in the Gita let’s recite this verse agnyas ca shraddha dhanas ca samsayatma vinasyati nayam lokos tinaparo nasukham samsayatmanah agnyas ca, agnya means one who does not have any knowledge a shraddha dhana means one who does not have any faith samsayatma one who is doubtful samsayatma means actually one who is atma itself samsay is filled with samsay what happens to this, there are three different categories of people one who doesn’t know about God one who doesn’t have faith in God and one who comes to know about God, has faith but his faith is filled with doubts so all three kinds of people are there vinasyati a person perishes and what is the vinasyati, nayam lokos ti ayam loko, in this world naparo, in the next world nasukham samsayatmanah a person who is doubtful, will not be happy either in this world or in the next world just like a person who is a perpetual doubter he doesn’t put his faith in any doctor that patient will never get sick, healthy will never be happy so like that if a person is a perpetual doubter that person will never become happy now whenever lord krishna teaches in the bhagavad gita some important points, he often does it by contrast so this verse he is telling the consequences of doubting and the verse before this, he tells the consequence of having faith if one puts faith then what happens shraddhawal labhate gyanam tatparah sanyatendriyaha gyanam labdha param shantin achirenadi gacchati so in this 4.39 he says shraddhawal, one who is faithful what happens to him labhate gyanam he acquires knowledge and after knowledge what happens actually to acquire knowledge, its not only shraddha, something else is required tatparah one has to become attached to god ok i have faith in god that is fine but if i have faith in god and i keep doing all sorts of materialistic things then that faith is only dormant see faith is expressed through action if i say doctor i have faith in you but i won’t take any treatment that you give me what is the meaning of that faith isn’t it tatparah means attachment to that absolute truth and naturally if there is attachment to lord krishna sanyatendriyaha, one will control one’s senses because one is experiencing god, one will say ok i don’t want to enjoy my senses so much, and then if one does this then what happens gyanam labdha param shantim one will attain shanti, which shanti, supreme happiness, param shanti achirenadi gacchati achiren, quickly not a long thing, gacchati so krishna says the pathway to peace and happiness is putting faith so how do we actually put faith is faith something, ok i decide i put faith some people say i don’t have faith what can i do is it something which we have choice about yes we do have choice about it in one sense our faith is like our muscles so some of us may have strong muscles some of us may have weak muscles but if i decide to exercise my muscles if i lift weights and other ways i try to build my muscles, then gradually my muscles will increase so at one level faith is developed by our exercising our faith muscles just like now all of you chose to come for this camp, so this is like you exercise your faith muscles so that you came for this camp now in advance you don’t know what is going to happen in the camp whether it will be worthwhile, whether your three days will be utilised or not but you exercise your faith muscles and when you come you get some knowledge you get some experience and by this knowledge and experience then your faith muscles grow stronger so first we exercise the faith muscles then they grow stronger, then we exercise them more then they become stronger more and more so initially our faith is like a banana tree you know banana it is like practically a thing anybody can come and shake it up an elephant can come and just shake it up completely but as we keep exercising our faith muscles as we keep doing devotional activities we start get our knowledge and our experience of Krishna starts deepening and enriching, then our faith will become like a banyan tree banyan tree means it has so many so big and such deep roots that even an elephant will not be able to shake it that’s how our faith will grow so faith is certainly a matter of choice it is a matter of choice and a matter of grace choice means ok I have some faith, I use that to attain some to exercise that, to do something by which my faith can increase further so I come for some programme I chant some holy names, I read some books and then when we do this then Krishna’s grace comes upon us so at a deeper level faith develops by Krishna’s grace but we can show Krishna that I want your grace, I want your mercy by exercising whatever little faith that we have so how do we exercise that faith, on what basis so Krishna is saying that we cannot be happy without faith so now at a basic level faith is existence of God see when Einstein had that faith, I believe in God and he says how do I know it that I see the order in the world that the intelligence manifested in the order throughout nature and science indicates, science is based on understanding that this world is not by chance it is working by some order so then he says how God has given us so many gifts when I sit here and watch the mighty ocean, I can imagine the treasures hidden below this bed of the sea when I see the clear blue sky above, I feel the sky is the limit so basically what is he saying nature is so vast and there are so many gifts in it so science must learn to live in harmony with all these gifts so at a basic level, we look at nature and we have faith in the existence of God but devotion goes far beyond just accepting the existence of God it involves connecting with and surrendering to God and for that just observing nature is not enough see nature nature in one sense is one book of God through nature God manifests his intelligence such balance, such beauty such aesthetics are there in nature but that is only one book may God exist I can come to that conclusion but if I want to know deeper about God there is the book of scripture so this is a preliminary faith that God exists but if I want to get deeper knowledge about God so that I can connect with him and surrender to him then I have to go to the book of scripture so as Shri Prabhupada says how do we approach scripture who would like to read, do we have a second mic who would like to read this on importance of dieting just try to think over what Bhagavad Gita says how Swamiji has discussed this matter apply your argument apply your logic don’t take it as sentiment or as a blind faith you have a God reason, you have a God argument you have a God sense apply it and try to understand it neither it is bogus it is scientific then you will feel Shraddha, Rathira, Bhaktira Ankura, Ambisa you will gradually develop your attachment for hearing it and devotional service will be invoked in your heart and then gradually you will make a progress thank you so Prabhupada is saying use your intelligence, think about it in fact Shri Prabhupada is repeating what Lord Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita towards the conclusion of the Bhagavad Gita Krishna in 18.63 Bhagavad Gita ends with 18.78 in 18.63 Krishna tells Arjuna now Arjuna I have spoken, you deliberate on it Vimrishayita dasheshena yatha ichchasi tatha kuru Vimrishayita deliberate on it think about it yatha ichchasi tatha kuru yatha ichchasi act accordingly so Krishna is a God who respects human intelligence and who appeals to human intelligence Krishna doesn’t say I am God, just obey me if he wanted to do that Arjuna I wanted to fight fight, he doesn’t do that there is actually an elaborate philosophical discussion where Krishna acknowledges the value of human intelligence respects that intelligence and then appeals to that intelligence by presenting the message systematically so Krishna tells towards the end of the Gita deliberate and you decide what you want to do so the Bhagavad Gita is not so much a book of commandments in the Abrahamic religion there are 10 commandments the Bhagavad Gita is not so much a book of commandments there are instructions in the Bhagavad Gita also but the Bhagavad Gita is primarily a book of choices choices and consequences Krishna says if you choose this, this, this, this will happen to you if you choose this, this, this, this will happen to you now Arjuna, you decide what you want to do so Krishna tells Arjuna that in 1858, 5 verses before this which I quoted just now he says, if you become conscious of me you will pass over all obstacles by my grace and he is explaining in the Bhagavad Gita how that will happen however, if you act without hearing me false ego, then you will be lost so Krishna has given choices and consequences and he is appealing to the intelligence that’s why it’s important that we use our intelligence to understand the philosophy and then we practise it he is quoting the verse of the Bhagavatam over here if we hear systematically then what will happen faith, attachment and devotion will gradually develop so Prabhupada says over here Bhagavad Gita is scientific faith, I do not mean blind faith this Bhagavad Gita is not blind faith everything is being explained step by step, scientifically, authoritatively so try to understand and if you fortunately become faithful then your life is successful so now in what sense is Bhagavad Gita scientific the word scientific in its broad sense means that there is a systematic, meaningful theory and there is a practical, verifiable experiment so same way in Bhagavad Gita there is a theory given there is God, we are souls and the soul connects with God that is when we will become truly happy and then there is an experiment given these are the ways in which you can connect with God you can chant his holy name you can serve him you can study about him, remember about him discuss about him in 10.9 Krishna tells that my devotees they talk about me they think about me, they discuss about me they dedicate their lives to me and in this way they are supremely happy so now this is the practise that Krishna is giving us so there is the theory and there is the experiment and if you try it out, then it is up to us it is verifiable for us so in that sense it is scientific so Narasimha Prabhupada is saying how do the devotees reasoning and logic work this is the story of the Narad Muni and the cobbler you know that story all of you know that how there was this cobbler when he was told that Lord Vishnu is threading an elephant through the eye of a needle what nonsense, it is not possible but the cobbler said, why not my lord can put a whole banyan tree in a small banyan seed then why can’t he put a put a elephant through a thread of a needle, so Prabhupada said this is how a devotee’s logic works oh my lord is so wonderful he can do anything so devotees have reason, but what is that reason if by Krishna’s reason by God’s process or nature’s process such a big tree can be put in a small seed is it very impossible for Krishna to keep all these plants floating by his energy so we have to believe, we have no other explanation, but we have to understand in this way, our reasoning our argument, our logic should go in this way that means we accept the principle that God exists and God is great and then we try to reason so reasoning is not disallowed or rejected but it is harmonised with our faith so importance of faith, logic and reasoning so I mentioned how many of you attended the lecture in Sankalpa on can faith be reasonable you remember can most of you may have forgotten it ok, others have not attended or you don’t remember, how many of you attended Sankalp camp ok put another, thank you how many of you have not attended Sankalp camp ok so there this whole seminar, the topic is what that faith can be reasonable, so the same example for doctor, which is given, reasonable faith has two aspects, sensible and verifiable sensible is before I put faith, verifiable is after I put faith so when I go to a doctor is it sensible for me to put faith in a doctor I look at his credentials is he actually a doctor, good doctor is he a proper degree, even if he has a degree, does he have experience what is his reputation I will see then when I say ok, I tell him I have pain in my leg and he says ok, we have to do brain surgery I say what, I have pain in my leg why do I have to do brain surgery does his diagnosis have any credibility does it make sense so if it makes sense, ok, we have got pain in your leg because there is some infection and you take this medicine, it will purify your blood, ok, that makes sense so first whether it is sensible and then verifiable means ok doctor, how long do you want me to take this medicine take this for 3 days, morning, afternoon your pain will go away then I can check after 3 days, whether it goes away or not if it goes away, yes, this is a good doctor otherwise, something wrong here I have to go to some other doctor so like that also, chanting Hare Krishna there is a philosophy that is given we have to check with ourselves does the philosophy make sense does it answer the fundamental questions of life and then we can practise for ourselves and see does it lead to a transformation so, actually speaking in every stage of life we need faith not just when I go to a doctor when I take a job in a company you know, we spend hours and hours, 8 hours 10 hours, 12 hours sometimes and we hope that this company will give us a bright career in future but sometimes the reputed companies themselves may come crumbling down the way the economy is now, recession was there everything came crumbling down similarly, when I go to school or college I put faith in the teacher, I put faith in the institute sometimes people lose their degree and at the end of the degree they find that the degree has no value because so many people having the same degree and I don’t get much of a job over here so, we put faith in every stage of our life reasonable faith is not only desirable but also necessary we can’t live without it so Krishna conscious process gives us clear purpose of life this is what you are, this is what you have to do and not only does it give us clear goal of life, so in spiritual life there are two important aspects one is the goal and the other is the means one is the goal means the sadhan sorry sadhya what is it that I have to achieve and sadhan is the means like if I am here and say I want to go from here to Mumbai first thing I want to know is where I should go ok, I have to go to Mumbai, like the spiritual life tells us where should I go, I have to go back to the spiritual world then if I understand I have to go to Mumbai then the next question comes, how will I go there there is the goal and there is the process, there is the means sadhya and sadhan sadhya is the goal and sadhan is the means to go to that goal so, this Krishna conscious process tells us very clearly what is the sadhya and what is the sadhan it makes things very practical and clear for us and then along the way it offers landmarks to us landmarks means, if you start from here to Mumbai, you will come across a big bridge and if you cross across the bridge then you will come to a cross road where there are three ways and you need to go straight up, then you will come to a tall naga if I go along and I find those landmarks happen ok, maybe this path is right, our faith increases, so like that, Krishna consciousness gives us landmarks, one landmark it says is that, if you start chanting Hare Krishna your bad habits will start going away your lust, anger, greed will start decreasing it says, if you keep doing this your attraction to Krishna will increase your clarity of thought will increase sattva guna will increase so all the symptoms which you can see as landmarks on the inner journey an important point is repeatability the process is repeatable some people say I have seen God I have seen God, ok fine but what can I do about that isn’t it? just have faith in you that you saw God well, no Bhagavad Gita doesn’t teach that sort of spirituality not only, Prabhupada was asked, have you seen God? Prabhupada says, how does it matter to you whether I have seen God or not, so I can offer you a process by which you can see God the idea is there is a repeatable process, whoever practises it, just like the law of gravity it is repeatable, if I throw a stone up, it will come down, whether I do it in Vada or I do it in Mumbai or whether I do it in Russia or America or Australia, it will come down so like that, people in Russia, Australia America, Europe, Africa everywhere people have chanted Hare Krishna and they have become transformed the repeatability is there and then beyond that it transforms our desires, actually what happens in material life is, somebody says why do I need to practise spiritual life, I’ll just be happy in material life, but material life drags us down, the way society is going now, lust distorts people’s life lust makes men into monsters and makes women into witches it brings out the worst among people, so that’s what we can practically see in life so this is how faith is important now how do we develop faith, Krishna said in the Bhagavad Gita surrender, question and service he says question, we should go and question but at the same time if we keep perpetually questioning we are only doing the theory part, what about the experiment part, the experimental service and that there is question, there is service and then when both of these start working then we surrender our heart, and that’s how we develop, this is how we get knowledge, this is how we get faith, surrender, question and service and Srila Prabhupada is also very clear that we should put faith, but not blind faith, there are so many people if you teach them, if you ask them ok what is the basis of what you are speaking oh no no we don’t believe in all these traditional things, this is my own theory, well my own theory is fine for something material, because new theories keep coming up, spiritual knowledge is eternal, spiritual knowledge has to be based on scripture so people don’t quote scripture and they come up with their own ideas that is not bona fide therefore if there are teachers who don’t follow scriptures, who don’t follow any principles themselves then such people, actually they cannot guide us, if they may say that, oh actually God is so beautiful but then they are attracted to worldly things in this world, then we cannot actually put faith in such people, there are many people who claim I am God and if somebody claims I am God then we have to ask them sir, if you are God Lord Ram, he, what did he do by his glance he evaporated, he vaporised the vast ocean, I will offer you just a glass of water, can you vaporise it isn’t it so let’s see, actually people claim to be God, but they have none of the characteristics of God so we cannot put faith in these sort of things hmm so Srila Prabhupada here gives the example that we have to test, so just like in botany, Srila Prabhupada is saying that if somebody says this is a mango tree may I go to a market and say this is a mango tree it will give you delicious mangoes, therefore it is very expensive, take this for 10,000 rupees I want to say, is this really a mango tree, we want to test it, so like that he says we have to test whether something is right or not if somebody claims I am God God has six opulences now does this person have even one opulence or how much is this, he has that opulence if somebody is claiming to be God similarly somebody is saying ok this is a process by which you will become happy well what is the basis, you have to test the process is it given in scripture, otherwise it is not valid so now here when Srila Prabhupada went to America actually how did his followers develop faith in him, who would like to read this somebody else where is the mic so Harishawari Prabhu was one of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples, so he is writing his diary called Transcendental Diary in which he is describing his experiences with Srila Prabhupada it is extremely pleasurable to be with Prabhupada during these quiet moments he is gentle and mild in his manner and completely fixed and steady in his devotion to Krishna he has tremendous strength and force but is devoid of passion, his presence is totally dominating without being at all domineering his mind steady and his senses controlled effortlessly his intelligence is perfectly clear and he knows how to act and how others should act in every situation, his presence thus makes spiritual life a reality I will explain this, you can read the next part somebody else thank you watching him today, it struck me that he is a living breathing Bhagavatam whatever description of Krishna consciousness is in his books, he himself is that, reading his books brings gradual realisation but what is understood in perhaps several lifetimes of study is revealed on a second to second minute to minute and day to day this is in Prabhupada’s personal association I have therefore resolved within myself to learn as much as I can while I have this matchless opportunity to observe him closely simply watching Srila Prabhupada in his daily activities, how he deals with devotees, how he responds to different situations, how he preaches how he manages the worldwide affairs of his ever expanding society how he relaxes, how he continually pushes forward the movement of Lord Chaitanya how he absolutely every facet of his being is fully Krishna conscious it is quite feasible to understand the full import of the sacred scriptures so here he is telling that there is the book of scripture the living scripture the person who has imbibed the scriptural wisdom so deeply within himself that actually he lives it constantly so when Srila Prabhupada went to America, he was going to give the same message that has come down in tradition, but he knew if Americans have to get that message he has to give them in a very in a way that they can relate to so one day Srila Prabhupada was chanting on the first floor in his temple in San Francisco and he just looked out of the window and he saw a flatbed truck you know flatbed truck means he doesn’t have any side walls and he saw the flatbed truck and he thought oh we can put Jagannath Baldev Subhadra deities on the back of a truck and we can raise it up and we can have a Rath Yatra over here he planned it and within a few weeks they had the first Rath Yatra and it became all over the world a festival now how many of us after seeing flatbed truck can think of Jagannath Baldev Subhadra Rath Yatra this is Prabhupada’s vision he is constantly thinking about how to serve Krishna how to always come up with newer and newer means of serving Krishna Srila Prabhupada went to America by boat he came to preach in Los Angeles some devotees went and started preaching in San Francisco, so that was the west coast so then devotees in San Francisco sent Srila Prabhupada the flight ticket so that was the first time Srila Prabhupada went by flight and then the devotees asked him in San Francisco Srila Prabhupada how was your experience Prabhupada said when I went up in the sky all the houses they were looking so small like matchsticks and then I thought if from this height they are looking so small from Krishna’s height how tiny they will be so wherever Srila Prabhupada would go he was always thinking of Krishna and how to engage, how to see Krishna conscious truths everywhere, how to engage everyone in Krishna’s service that was his always vision constantly, so this is how when we actually interact with people who are practising Krishna consciousness that takes our faith to a, from a intellectual level to a deeper internalised accepted absorbed practise level so that’s why so what happens is, in spiritual life, we often in material life we understand this person is sick this person is healthy, somebody is coughing somebody is weak, we understand this person is sick, but what happens with us in material life is everybody is materialistic, that means everybody is sick, so if there is nobody who is healthy, then we can’t even know what is health but when we come in touch with a person who is completely devoted to God, and doesn’t want anything except service to God, at that time we start understanding ok this person is living at a different level at such a level actually exists at such a level exists, you know Shila Prabhupada when he came by Janduta to America he wrote a song a Bengali song called Markine Bhagwat Dharma and now normally if an Indian will go to America, people have such America, statue of liberty they have such big dreams, I’ll go and enjoy over there, so when Shila Prabhupada wrote this poem, he was not writing this poem thinking that in the future people are going to read the poem, he was unknown over there, and there was no knowledge that whether his mission will be successful or not so he was actually speaking his heart to Krishna and in that poem, what is he saying to Krishna, my dear lord Krishna you are very kind to me you have brought this useless soul to this distant land but this land is very terrible place, America magnificent buildings, skyscrapers, smooth roads cars, it’s a terrible place, why is it terrible this is filled with the modes of passion and ignorance and people here are all suffering now normally if we see Americans we don’t think they are suffering, is it they are happy, joyful but I think Krishna, you must have some plan, otherwise you would not have brought me to this terrible place, anyway I don’t know what is your plan, but I am surrendered to you, as you want me to dance my dear lord I will dance as you want me to dance, let me dance so Srila Prabhupada when he is seeing the skyscrapers of America and the fast cars, he is not thinking oh these people are so advanced, you see it’s simply the modes of passion and ignorance which are dominating these people when he is seeing fashionably dressed young aggressive Americans he is not thinking of these as the as the ideals of success that all the world looks at you see that, they are all souls who are forgotten Krishna and are suffering trying to search for happiness here and there so actually a devotee is completely internalised Krishna and associating with these devotees, such devotees very advanced devotees is a matter of great fortune for us and without that the whole theory of Bhagavad Gita remains just a theory and when there is a theory, at the level of theory, at the level of logic, we can just keep arguing and counter arguing and arguing and counter arguing, of course there are answers to arguments, but logic in and of itself is inconclusive how, why it is inconclusive sometimes there are two patients two doctors meet, ok this patient has got this disease, no no no, this symptom indicates he has got this disease, this symptom indicates he has got this disease, both of them keep arguing, the poor patient will get sick and die ok you take the treatment and treat him, if your diagnosis is correct, cure him, if he gets cured then the diagnosis is correct, so like that ultimately logic is useful, but we have to practise when we practise, then we become purified, so now this, with this background of the importance of faith and also the validity of doubting will move forward to our faith and doubt sessions, normally the way we would do this is normally Radhe Shambu and I would conduct this together, in the previous Udkar Shastra in Mayapur, I conducted it together with him or he conducted it with me so we would have students come up and state their doubts, I think some of you might have already been asked by Shiva Prabhu and others on your doubts about the philosophy of Krishna, whom have you asked, which group ok, who of you have asked questions about your doubts as such only one or two people ok so the idea is that whatever doubts you have they will be written down and then we will answer the questions, so they have prepared a PPT based on your doubts and then we will be displaying the PPT and we will be answering the questions so like that we will be doing it for six topics, I am just going through some of the topics ok, so what gives you faith in scripture what causes you doubt about scripture then about Prabhupada, about ISKCON similarly, about the philosophy and process of Krishna consciousness, about devotees and about science and scientists so, I will be taking about science and scientists today in the afternoon and I will talk about this philosophy and process also in the afternoon and right now I will talk about faith in scriptures so the remaining three topics about Prabhupada, ISKCON and devotees Radhichandra will take it later in a camp in Pune the six topics which we systematically try to discuss so let’s start with so this is the faith in the Vedic scriptures the ultimate treasure of the Vedic scriptures so basically ok so many times when people hear about Vedic scriptures like you saw the Bhrigu Muni drama the other day, different people have idea oh this god is supreme, that god is supreme, why is this sort of thing talked about what is the actual teaching of the Vedic scriptures so to understand this we need to understand some broad principles first so basically there are three types of paths three types of paths, they can be called as exclusivism, pluralism and inclusivism exclusivism is only my path is right, all other paths are wrong, all other paths are going to take people to hell so to understand this let’s take the exam, so the second path I’ll just tell all three, then I’ll explain them pluralism is, oh we need to be broad minded we cannot be narrow minded like this and claim that only my path is right so all paths are right and third is inclusivism inclusivism means that actually there is not just there are not many paths, there is one path with many levels in that path one path with many levels in that path so we have to see a path to what level does it take these people so to understand these three paths consider the example of a doctor that I gave earlier so if some some student who goes to a particular medical college and then he becomes a doctor then he says after that only a person who is a doctor from my college, he alone is a doctor, everybody else is bogus we may say what is this, do you think you have monopoly on medicine who gave you such a monopoly that’s very narrow minded it’s very fanatical now somebody says we have to be broad minded so he says actually speaking everybody is a doctor everybody is a doctor so pluralism is that all paths are right all paths are right we seem very broad minded but then somebody says my path is atheism if my path is atheism and if my path is right then all paths which say that there is God are wrong isn’t it, so logically itself we cannot have all paths are right so the actual reality so these are like if you have a pendulum two extremes, one extreme is exclusivism, only my path is right the other extreme of the pendulum is all paths are right but the balance understanding is there is one path with multiple levels, that’s inclusivism so what are these multiple levels, most of you have seen this earlier, fear, desire duty and love remember people approach God at various levels some people approach God, oh God if I don’t obey him, then I will suffer and I will die, or I will get some punishment, so I am afraid of God therefore I will obey him and a more positive motivation is, ok if I worship and serve God, then God will give me some rewards, God will give me good marks in exam beautiful spouse good job, whatever so therefore, I will worship God this desire, and beyond that is duty, yes God is my father, I should serve him and beyond that is love I serve God because I love him so in the Ramayana, Lakshman tells Lakshman when he is introducing Lord Ram to Hanuman, when they meet for the first time in Kishkindha, so Lakshman says, this is the eldest son of Dashrath and I am his younger brother, he says and due to his unlimited and perfect qualities, I am his servant, and he says no he says even if he had no qualities I would be his servant but because he has such wonderful qualities my position at his feet has become pleasant and permanent that is, I love him not because he is God, but because he is so wonderful, so here we love God just because God is so lovable, it’s not that I want something from God for the sake, so love is the highest level at which we can relate with God, now different religions, different paths on the spiritual journey, they may take us to different levels, so you can visualise this as climbing up a mountain when I am climbing up a mountain, there can be different paths to climb up a mountain but still there is one summit one peak to the mountain and different paths may start off, but then suddenly they come up a rocky side and they just end over there, so they may not take us to the peak, so various religions in the world they generally operate on the level of fear and desire if you do this, God will give you this if you don’t do this, then God will say you will have to go to hell, like that so in the Vedic literature also this is there if you see not just Vedic literature, if you see in Quran or in the Bible lot of description of heaven especially in the Quran, the description of heaven and people will have so much to drink and so much to eat and so many beautiful women to enjoy with and all these things are told about and all these jihadis they think I don’t get one woman to enjoy over here I will go to heaven and get so many women to enjoy let me die for God, this is a very perverted idea of, but that’s how they make people into terrorists so what is the point over here they actually, Quran says that there are seven Jannats and on top is Jannat-e-Allah, Jannat is heaven and that is where there is a throne of Allah where Allah resides but these jihadis, they are not interested in Allah, they are interested in the damsels that they will get to enjoy over there, so this is a very perverted understanding of religion now in the Vedic tradition also this is talked about, okay you want to get this particular thing, you have got some disease, okay, worship Surya your disease will get cured, you have some problem in starting something, this is worship Ganesh, this is given over there now what is the purpose of having so many different Devatas and it is actually to help people to start off in this journey so that they can rise to its peak, to come to the level of love this is the ultimate purpose to rise to love so the Vedic spirituality is user friendly user friendly means that it adjusts itself according to the level of a person earlier I mentioned that in spirituality two things are important, sadhan and sadhyam what is the goal and what is the means so what the Vedic spirituality says is okay if you are very intellectual you can practise the path of gyana if you are more interested in physical activity, you can practise the path of karma, if you are interested in doing a lot of tapasya, you can follow the path of yoga and there are these different Devatas also whom you can worship and in one sense it offers us flexibility with respect to sadhan and sadhyam so now if it offers flexibility, does this mean that all paths are equal and all goals are equal not exactly let’s see how this works so in the Vedic culture there are these four different paths, karma, gyana, yoga and bhakti by yoga we mean dhyana yoga people do this yoga asanas, that path and there are different gods that are talked about, Shiva is talked about, Brahma is talked about, Vishnu is also talked about, so let us try to understand if you give flexibility to people and follow this path you can worship this god how do the people gradually get elevated so how many of you know the story of the prodigal son okay I think others might also be knowing it but you may not remember the word prodigal son so prodigal son story is what that there is a wealthy father and his son quarrels with his father and leaves home and when he leaves home he has some wealth with him but he squanders away his wealth and then he has to serve some other landlord this is a story which comes in the old testament in the bible and it more or less agrees with the overall message of all the religions of the world so there is this landlord’s son now he is hungry and he is poverty stricken and now he has to get something to eat so he starts serving some other landlord in a distant land where he has gone and that landlord now makes him work very hard he has to feed pigs some corn and then the landlord tells him whatever remains you can eat that and while eating the pigs the pigs bite him and he is suffering terribly and then he thinks maybe I should go back to my father but I squandered away all his wealth how can I go back no no but still I will go back to him and then he finally goes back and when the father gets the news your son has come back the father runs out of his house and comes on his boat too eagerly to meet him and he embraces him and welcomes him back he says my son has come back now my son he will be the lord of my house from now onwards so this story is told in the bible to show how much god loves us although we reject him and go away from him when we return back to him still he welcomes us with open arms so this is at one level great love of god although we reject him he doesn’t reject us but the vedic literature described that god’s love for his is much greater Krishna doesn’t just welcome us back when we come back he actually comes with us to try to seek us to come back he tries to make some arrangements to by which he can come back he strives multifariously in many ways to get us back and one such extraordinary effort of his is the system of demigod worship so how does a demigod worship help the soul to come back to Krishna this is a little complicated table but first if you understand the principle then you will understand this see just forget the middle part right now the real object of service look at the story story of the prodigal son so what is happening the son has gone away from the father and the son is serving some other landlord when he is serving the landlord he is suffering over there then the father realises if i go and tell my son please come back he may or may not come back to me so what the father does is he sends one of his ministers and tells the minister ok how much is he paying you what are you getting over here he tells me i will pay you better i will give you more things please come back and when he tells him that he comes back when the son comes back to the father’s kingdom now what has happened all the son has not come back to the father’s house at least he has come back within the father’s kingdom and by coming back within the father’s kingdom he is indirectly in the father’s care now when the minister gives him some salary how is the minister giving the salary it’s because the king is giving him a salary king is giving the revenues so what is happening is that the minister has some power by which he attracts and employs the son and the minister gives some rewards which are also given by the son both his power and his rewards are ultimately coming from the king but in this way what has happened the son has come back within the kingdom and then the son is serving the minister and the son starts observing this minister he is giving money but it seems he is also serving someone so he goes and tries to enquire whom is he serving and then he finds that he is serving the king then he goes to the king and he says so the landlord and the king I am saying over here same thing he says if I serve you how much will you pay me you are my son why do you want to be paid for a job you come and stay with me in my palace no no I don’t want that will you pay me and I will serve you he says ok ok I will pay you handsomely what you want he starts serving his father and he starts seeing actually this person he is so kind so loving so wonderful and why should I serve him for money let me develop a relationship with him let me revive my relationship with him brother I already have a relationship and then gradually he starts loving his father and comes back home so just like this lost son the prodigal son comes back through agents through the minister through the king ultimately so like that Krishna arranges his lost children to come back through the demigods so when the soul is trying to serve somebody in this world then I use the word semi-god semi-god means say me god I am god so actually some people claim also I am god but even those people who don’t claim I am god they also have the idea if a company is there and a boss is there he says you have to obey me my way or the highway isn’t it obey me or get out so basically we serve somebody in the world and that person is like god we have to obey that person and that’s when the we will get what we want our salary or our emoluments whatever but by doing this at this level why are we doing it we are doing it for the level of wealth and as a person is materialistic but then Krishna tells the person ok you want material things you can get it don’t just be atheistic come closer to me so then he sends some devatas in his life ok you want health you want prosperity you want this that come worship the devata you will get this from me so what has happened now that person has come within the house of Krishna he has come within the house of the Vedas come within the house of the Vedas means he has come closer to Krishna than before and then as he serves the demigods he is materialistic but at this level he has become karmakant he has become at least religious and then after some time ok he starts thinking these devatas when they are in danger where do they go? they go to Vishnu oh Vishnu please save us that means the devatas are also servants then why should I not serve Vishnu he starts serving Vishnu but what is his interest his interest is still material things he doesn’t want Krishna necessarily he doesn’t want to love Krishna but gradually at least he comes back home he comes back not yet to the home directly but close to the home he has come to the king’s palace and he is serving the king so like that when we start serving Krishna for material things we have come to the right person the ultimate person and gradually we become purified and develop love for him so what happens is that in this way Krishna allows more and more people to get connected with him so that they can come back to him quickly now in this system of demigod worship he is extremely compassionate of Krishna how is he compassionate? because if I am the boss of a company and if I let somebody is coming to my company ok you are the boss he starts glorifying that person as the boss don’t you know I am the boss how dare you glorify him and not only that the boss will tell him hey why are you accepting the glorification I am the boss here but Krishna is not concerned with his glorification Krishna is concerned with only our elevation ok if you don’t want to serve me you serve my representative at least you will get elevated by that so this is a metaphor to understand this is an example to understand this now let us see how this is the same thing is told in the scriptures so in the yajnavalki is asked how many gods are there and he says there are 3003 gods there are 303 gods there are 6 gods and every time when he says this but really yajnavalki how many gods are there and his answer keeps evolving finally he says one god and he tells as if there is no contradiction between this what does it mean ultimately there is only one king but the king may have many ministers at various levels and the whole programme is to get the son back to the king so this is from the Upanishads now let us move forward and look at the Bhagavad Gita so these verses 7.20 to 23 are extremely important in the Bhagavad Gita and this explain the mechanism of demigod worship so Krishna says who are the people who worship demigods those whose gyan has been stolen away by material desires they they go and surrender to other gods and what do they do accordingly they follow certain rules and when they follow those rules by that what happens I like to do this somebody is in Tamoguda those people they like some Shiva also drinks Bhang Shiva has ashes on his body, he has a snake around his head hey I like this kind of god, I will worship him so they like that according to their prakriti, according to their nature they start worshipping as they start worshipping Krishna says what do I do this is very amazing, next verse is whatever whatever form they want to worship with faith they want to worship, Krishna says what do I do I will make their shraddha achala I will make their shraddha strong that means Krishna is telling if somebody wants to worship Ganesh, somebody wants to worship Shiva somebody wants to worship Durga I will make their faith strong now why will Krishna make their faith strong its like the son has gone away from the kingdom when the minister is going to approach him, the king will want the minister, you show your powers to him, as much power as you have, so that my son will get convinced to serve you and not stay outside my kingdom by that he will come back, so Krishna says that I will give faith to the people so that they can worship the devatas if they want to, so on one side in the process of worship there is worshipper and there is worshipped so Krishna says I will give faith to the worshipper so that he will worship the devata, and then in the next verse he says that when such a person worships the devata sataya shraddhaya yuktas tasyaradhana mihate when somebody does the aradhana labhate chitataha kaman, one attains the gains, but how does he get it mayaiva vihitan hitan, mayaiva vihitan, they are actually given by me and me alone you can switch off now Hare Krishna they just announced that because the power is going off they want to switch off the generator for some time so what is Krishna doing over here Krishna says mayaiva vihitan hitan, I give faith to these people I give the power to the demigods so that they can give fruits to others, so Krishna gives faith to the worshipper and Krishna gives the power to the devatas so that they can give the fruits to the their worshippers, so that is like the minister, where is he getting his wealth from, from the king so Krishna says this is how I make the arrangement then somebody will say that ok if you are only giving faith you are only giving power then everything is happening by your plan only then what is the need to change anything, let people worship him only he says no why says says says Hare Krishna so temper can you hear me Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama Hare Krishna.
So we are discussing about the system of demigod worship. So, Madh Bhakta Yanti Mahamapi. Lord Krishna says in the same series of verses that what is the essential difference between demigod worship and his worship when both are within his sanction.
The problem with demigod worship is that it is temporary, antavat tuphalam tesha, antavat. It is going to have an anta, end. Just like relating and serving the minister, it’s a time-bound relationship, do the work, get the salary.
It’s not a lifelong relationship. When the son goes back to the father and has a relationship, that can be lifelong. It’s a much deeper and longer relationship.
In fact, the relationship with Krishna, it is eternal. The demigod is temporary and therefore Krishna says, although I have only created the system, but those who worship the demigods, they are tadbhavaty alpamedhasam, medhasam means intelligence, alpamedhasam means less intelligence. They have scanty intelligence and they will go to the planets of the demigods but those planets are temporary, mad-bhaktah yanti mam api, my devotees will come back to me.
So in this way, what is Krishna doing by this system of demigod worship? So I mentioned this yesterday, remember 60%? We had talked about this yesterday? No. See if a father has two sons and one of them gets 40% marks, another gets 80% marks regularly and today both of them have come with results and both of them have got 60%. So the first son comes, father I have got 60%, father will say, shabash, I am proud of you.
Second son comes, father I have got 60%, badmash, what did you do? Hey both got 60, I also got 60, also got 60, why are you saying badmash to me? Because you can get 80. Similarly, if somebody is a materialist or atheist, he starts worshipping Shiva, he starts worshipping Ganesha, he starts worshipping Durga, then shabash, you come from 40% to 60%. But when Arjuna, he is told about demigod worship, that here is a person who can be at 80% level, then there is a person who can be a Krishna devotee, a Vishnu devotee, he starts worshipping devatas, Vishnu says, alpamedhasam, badmash, what are you doing, stop it.
So, the idea is, it is progressive, it is progressive, and what is good at one level is not good at another level, at 40%, 60% level is good, at 80%, 60% level is not good. So therefore, is demigod worship good or bad? Actually, for materialist and atheist it is good, for serious spiritual seekers who can become Krishna devotees, it is not so good, it is discouraged, because they are coming down from their level. So therefore, this is still, this is a compassionate logic, what is the compassionate logic? If somebody from 40% is told, only when you come to 80% you will become good, 80% is too difficult, better let me not start it only, no, look how progressive, this is also good.
So people when they take one one step towards God, they need to be encouraged. So how does this, what happens by this? This Vedic system of multi-level worship, multi-level worship, it bears testimony to, it is a proof of what? Krishna is a unique concern for the individuality of the worshipper, the individuality, yes different people have different nature, the father doesn’t say to son, you come back, then I will accept you, he says, no, my son is a little upset with me, he will not be able to accept me, so let him accept somebody else who represents me, I recognise his individuality, so Krishna knows, ok different people are influenced by different modes, somebody Trajoguna, somebody Stamoguna, they will not be able to accept me, let them accept my representative. So Krishna is so concerned and more than that, it represents an unparalleled flexibility of the worshipable in making himself accessible.
Krishna makes himself accessible to us so that we can get elevated through the Devatas. So in the other religions, in the religions of the Abrahamic tradition, the idea is that there is one true God, if you worship that God, you will go back to heaven and if you don’t worship that God, all other Gods are false Gods. If you worship any of them, you are going to go to hell.
So what happens is, this puts the entry level criteria for coming in the house of religion as very high, you have to develop faith in God, the one true God and surrender to him. Now if somebody can’t develop faith in that one true God, then go to hell, that’s the only way. But what the Vedic culture does is, it doesn’t put such a steep entry level barrier.
There are different entry level walls. There is a small entry level wall, you want to drink, okay, there is Lord Shiva who also drinks, you can also drink bhang, hey I can drink and still be a devotee, still be a worshipable, very nice, I’ll do this. So what happens is, the entry level, the Lord is making himself accessible a lot, so that by the way the entry level criteria is very small and people can come inside, they come inside and they can come further inside and further inside and gradually they come to the innermost core, that is pure devotional service.
So Krishna makes himself more and more accessible in this way. So this is how the overall system works. Now, what is the conclusion of the Vedic literature? The Srimad Bhagavatam is written by Vyasadev in his spiritual maturity.
After he has written all the other books, then he writes Srimad Bhagavatam. And what does he tell? He tells Krishna is supreme and bhakti to him is supreme. So Vyasadev has written all the other books also, but he is telling, this is the conclusion.
And similarly in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna himself says, so Vyasadev is telling, Krishna has also told the same thing. The house of Vedas has many chambers, it has also the outhouses, the parandas, but ultimately the centre of that house is Krishna. Krishna is telling, this is 15.15 in the Bhagavad Gita, by all the Vedas, I am to be known.
This is the conclusion of the Vedas. So from the Bhagavatam and from the Bhagavad Gita, the same point is being reiterated. So now, sometimes, some demigods may be addressed as supreme in some places.
So now we have to understand that the names can be both adjectives as well as nouns. The names can be adjectives as well as nouns. For example, the name of Shiva is there.
Interestingly, you will find the name of Shiva in the Shiva Purana. But you will find the name of Shiva in Vishnu Purana also. And you find the name of Shiva in Vishnu Sahasrana.
The thousand names of Vishnu, they are all the names of Vishnu. Sarva, Sarva, Shiva. Sarva, Sarva, Shiva.
Shiva is, we would say the name of Shiva. And why is it included among the thousand names of Vishnu? Actually, Shiva is not just a name of a person. Shiva is a quality.
And just like in English, there are some words which are both nouns as well as adjectives. So, according to Panini Sanskrit grammar rules, actually, this name Shiva, it can refer to a person or it can refer to the quality of a person. So at one level, Shiva refers to the Devata Shiva.
At another level, Shiva refers to, the word Shiva means auspicious. So, it refers to the auspiciousness, that is the quality of Lord Vishnu. So, Lord Vishnu is supremely auspicious.
Now, one particular representative of His, that is Lord Shiva, He embodies, He manifests that quality. So, what is auspiciousness of Lord Shiva? That those people who are living very inauspicious lives, they also can get purified. Those who are living very materialistic, sinful, tamasic lives, Lord Shiva extends His mercy and elevates even them.
So, in this way, if some Puranas refer to a particular, they say Lord Shiva is supreme. That indicates, not the particular Devata, but the Supreme Lord who has that quality. Because that Devata’s quality also comes from the Supreme Lord.
So, Eten Sarve Vyakhyate Vyakhyataha. The Vedanta Sutra says that Vyakhyata, who is described? That Eten, that Supreme Lord, that Supreme Absolute Truth is described by all names. So, whenever any name is described as supreme, that means that it is not that particular Devata, but the attribute of the Supreme Lord that is manifested through the Devata.
So, that is why, when we have to understand the various Gods, we have to understand them as Bheda and Abheda. Bheda, Abheda. At one level, the minister is different from the king, there is a difference.
They are two different persons. But at another level, they are both part of the government. So, there is Abheda also.
So, there is, that means the Devatas and Krishna are all part of one plan. They are all part of one plan, one purpose. And in that sense, they are all working together to elevate people.
Now, let us see how this system has worked in history. There is Vallabhacharya, who was a devotee of Lord Shiva. And quite a sincere devotee of Lord Shiva he was.
One day he was very frustrated with his life. Vallabhacharya lived around 500 years ago. So, one day he was very frustrated with the way things were going in his life.
So, he went to a Shiva temple and started offering prayers very fervently to Lord Shiva. And being pleased with his prayers, Lord Shiva appeared in front of him. What do you want? He was very surprised.
Lord Shiva himself has come, he folded his hands and he said, he was quite intelligent also, he said, my dear Lord, whatever you think is the best for me, please give that to me. And Lord Shiva smiled. And then he gave him a deity of Krishna.
And then he went on to become a Vaishnava. A very prominent Vaishnava, Vallabhacharya. So, similar Narasimha Mehta, he is a very great Vaishnava from Gujarat, around 600-500 years ago.
Again, same period, more or less. That period when there was a huge renaissance of bhakti all over India. So, he was also a devotee of Lord Shiva.
And he pleased Lord Shiva by his worship and prayers. And then he asked Lord Shiva, Lord Shiva came to him and said, what do you want? Please give me that which is the best for me. And then he was given the direction to worship Krishna.
And he became a great devotee of Krishna afterwards. Now, Keshav Kashmiri, this is also described in Chaitanya Charita Amrit, he was a worshipper of Saraswati Devi. And Saraswati Devi had given him a blessing by which he could defeat anybody in this world.
Anybody and everybody in his colony debates. And then he met Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And then he was defeated in the debate with Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
And when he was defeated, at that time, he went and thought, have I offended Mother Saraswati? He went and fell at the feet of Mother Saraswati and begged for her mercy. And he asked, what has happened? She said, you had given me a blessing, why did you take away your blessing? So, Saraswati Devi appeared to him and she said, what was your blessing? What happened? You had given me a blessing that I will never be defeated by anybody of this world. Why have you not fulfilled your blessing? I have always fulfilled my blessing.
But I was defeated today. What was the blessing? The blessing was that I will not be defeated by anybody in the world. He said, the person who defeated you was not of this world.
The person who defeated you was a Lord of my Lord. And then after she understood this, then the same person, she told him that, Saraswati Devi told him that, my true blessing is not just to make you a champion scholar. Throughout history there have always been champion scholars.
They will come and go. The real blessing that, my real blessing is that, today I have introduced you to my ultimate Lord. Surrender to him and become his devotee.
So, Keshav Kashmiri was a worshipper of Saraswati. He went on to become a Vaishnav after that, a devotee of Lord Vishnu. He has written many scholarly books.
He has written a commentary on Vedanta Sutra and several other books like that. Similarly, there is another great devotee named Chandidas. So, Chandidas was a worshipper of Chandi Devi and his brother was a Vaishnava.
His brother was a devotee of Lord Vishnu. Now, this Chandidas was quite well to do and he had a house which had nice garden, lot of flowers. His Vaishnava brother used to live right next to his house.
One day this brother asked Chandidas, he said, there are so many flowers in your garden. Can I just take one flower and offer to my Vishnu Deity, my Shaligram Sheela? Chandidas said, nothing doing. He said, all my flowers are meant only for Chandi.
I cannot touch even one flower. So, his brother felt okay, felt bad but he did not say anything. And then a few days later, when he was going to take bath and then after coming back from bathing, he saw such beautiful flowers in his brother’s garden.
So, he thought in his mind, I will take this flower and I will offer it to Lord Vishnu. It will be so nice. So, he did Manas Puja.
In his mind, he offered the flower to Vishnu. And then after that, Chandidas came and took the same flower and offered it to Chandi Devi. And as he was chanting prayers to Chandi and worshipping her, suddenly Chandi Devi appeared.
She said, I am pleased with you. What do you want? I will ask afterwards but tell me one thing before that. He said, I have been worshipping you for so many years.
How is it that today you became pleased with me? She said, today you gave me the Mahaprasad of my Lord. He said, what do you mean? Then Chandi Devi told him the whole story of how his brother had offered the flower to Vishnu and it has become Mahaprasad now. You have given me the Mahaprasad of my Lord.
Then Chandidas asked, you mean to say that worshipping Vishnu is superior to worshipping you? He said, of course. Vishnu is the Lord of my Lord. My Lord is Shiva and highest Lord is Vishnu.
Chandidas said, why did you tell this to me till now? So, Chandi Devi said, you never asked this to me till now. You are so busy asking, give me this, dhanam dehi, this dehi, bharayam dehi, this dehi, that dehi. You are asking me for material things.
I was just giving you what you were asking me. But today you did some extra special thing for me. Today you gave me the Mahaprasad of my Lord.
Therefore, I am giving you something special. So, Chandidas after that became a great devotee and he has written amazing poems about Lord Krishna. And Chandidas, even after he became a devotee of Lord Krishna, still he kept the name, his name is Chandidas.
Because Chandi Devi was my Guru. She brought me to Krishna Adavta Spirit. So, he didn’t change his name.
He kept his name Chandidas, but he became a devotee of Krishna. So, like that, in history there are many examples of people who worshipped the Devata sincerely or somehow, accidentally some sincerity came up. They were sincere, then they were elevated to the worship of Krishna.
So, therefore, this is a sophisticated and subtle mechanism by which somebody is worshipping a Devata will slowly come to the worship of Krishna. Now, in this system, there are some important subtle points. For the people to develop faith in their particular Devata, sometime the Devata will be glorified.
And sometime that glorification can become disproportionate. Just because some statement is there in the scripture, does not mean that that script statement is the absolute or the ultimate truth. Because the scriptures also give multi-level truths.
For example, in the 7th canto, Hiranyakashipu is doing Tapasya to please Brahmaji. And when he does Tapasya to please Brahmaji, Brahmaji appears. And then Hiranyakashipu starts offering prayers to Brahmaji.
Now, when he is offering prayers, he glorifies Brahma as if Brahma is supreme. Now, why is Hiranyakashipu doing that? Actually, Hiranyakashipu wants to become supreme himself. And you will see, as soon as he gets his blessings, he starts acting as if he is only the supreme.
So, there when he is offering prayers to Brahmaji, that prayer is actually a flattery. So, although the prayers of Hiranyakashipu are there in the Bhagavatam, those prayers are not the absolute truth. See, sometimes demons may speak something in the Bhagavatam itself.
Some demon may speak, actually there is no God at all. Now, that comes in the scripture. But just because some statement comes in the scripture, does that mean it is the absolute truth? No, you have to see in what context it is coming.
In what context it is coming. We have to understand what is the conclusion of the scripture and then see that. So, this is an example within a scripture.
The Bhagavatam is giving the highest knowledge. But even within that scripture, if one does not look at the context, one can get confused. Now, in that same Bhagavatam also, if we look properly, we will find the Brahma Vimohan Leela, where Brahmaji gets bewildered.
I told the story yesterday about how Brahmaji wanted to test Krishna and he got confused. He was bewildered. So, then we will say, ok, here Brahmaji is glorified as supreme.
But there you will see, actually Brahmaji is not supreme. Brahmaji is subordinate to Krishna. So, we have to get a broad picture.
Then we will get a clear understanding. So, like that, sometimes, Shiva Purana may seem to glorify Lord Shiva as supreme. But we have to see according to the context.
Now, it is said in the Bhagavatam, Vaishnava naam yatha shambhu. But in the Shiva Purana it is not said, Shaiva naam yatha Vishnu. There is no verse like that.
Oh, the greatest of all deities of Lord Shiva is Vishnu. It is not said like that. And now Lord Shiva may be called as Vishwanath.
And that is correct because he is in charge of the material world. Durga Devi is in charge of the material world and he is the lord of Durga Devi. So, that is fine.
So, Lord Shiva will not be called as Anantakoti Brahmanda Nayak. That Anantakoti Brahmanda Nayak is the creator of thousands of universes, millions of universes. That name is for Lord Vishnu.
So, when in the Shiva Purana certain verses come up, if we look at the broad context, then things will become clear to us. So, in the Shiva Purana only it is said, Kartikeya is telling that actually if there is a contradiction between the Sattva Guni Puranas and the Tamasic Puranas, then Sattva Guni Puranas are considered to have the highest truth. What does it mean? That means, see, when the son is coming back from the other kingdom to the father’s kingdom, even if the son believes, hey, this minister has come to take me, this minister is the king.
At that point it is okay because at least the son is coming back to the kingdom. So, at one level getting people into the house of religion is most important. And then their understanding will evolve gradually.
So, if we study the scriptures in their broad context, then it will be clear who is supreme. And this clarification, we can do it at one level by studying the scripture and understanding what its conclusion is. But at a deeper level it also happens by experience.
Can you switch this off? It happens by experience and transformation. So, if somebody is worshipping a Devata, we don’t have to go and argue with him, hey, this Devata is not supreme. Krishna is supreme.
Stop worshipping him. Worship Krishna. That would be very insensitive.
What we should do is, we can help him study the scripture himself and let that person come to a decision. And more important than studying the scripture, we can tell that person, you are worshipping this Devata, you pray to that Devata and you pray to Krishna, please guide me what is the right understanding. Please guide me what is the right understanding.
And then Krishna will guide. Krishna will guide us slowly, step by step. And that Devata will also guide a person step by step.
So, ultimately it is a system by which a person can be gradually elevated to the ultimate goal. So, we should not get confused if we see certain statements which seem to say that Shiva is supreme or Devi is supreme. These are statements which are given so that the person can get gradually elevated.
First get him into the house of religion, then he will get elevated to the highest understanding. This is a gradual progression. And when we understand the progression, then we understand how concerned Krishna is for our elevation.
And Krishna is ready to go to any extreme, create such a sophisticated system so that people can be elevated one by one by one to the highest level. So, now there is one way in which a person can come to the highest level quickly. So, now we may say, are all of us in goodness that we can all worship Vishnu? We may be, we may not be also.
The shortcut is if we can meet devotees. Now if you see the hippies, they were not in goodness. They were largely in ignorance.
But if one can meet a devotee, a devotee can elevate a person quickly. Because when a person encounters a devotee, first the faith comes in the devotee. And through the devotee the faith comes in Krishna.
So, even if the person is not able to develop faith in Krishna initially or in Vishnu initially, if a person can develop faith in a devotee, then he can be elevated to the highest understanding. So, this is how the system offers a shortcut. Normally people are in Tamoguna, they will worship the Tamasic deity.
And then they will come to Rajasic and Satvic deities gradually. But even a person in Tamoguna, if he can get contact with a devotee, develop faith in that devotee and through that devotee, faith in the process of bhakti, then he can be quickly elevated to the ultimate destination. So, that’s why in the Bhagavad Gita, when Krishna gives various processes, what does he conclude? sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksheshyami ma shuja He is saying sarva-dharman parityajya.
He has said all other paths just surrender to me and me alone. I will free you from all your sinful reactions and you will come back to me. So, I will summarise.
I started by talking about exclusivism, inclusivism and pluralism. It’s like somebody saying that my college is the only right college or all colleges are right colleges for producing doctors. But actually, if you want to know who is a doctor, you have to look at his criteria.
Does he have the knowledge? Does he have the skills? So, like that, if somebody says my path is the only path, you have to see to what level that path is taking. So, it is called fear, desire, duty and love. And in the Vedic literature, there are these multiple levels.
But along with the multiple levels, there are multiple gods also who can be worshipped. So, flexibility is between sadhya and sadhana. So, the centre point of the class was the metaphor of the prodigal son extended.
The son has gone away from the father. The father sends his ministers to act as intermediaries between him and the father, himself, him and his son. And that’s how he gets him back.
So, like that, devatas are intermediaries. And we discussed the scriptural basis, how Krishna tells, I give faith to the worshippers and I give power to the worshipper. And in this way, I facilitate the system.
And then we see how the system works through the examples of Vallabhacharya, Chandidas and Keshavakashmi. And lastly, we concluded by saying, how should we deal with people? We should not try to impose the highest understanding. Yes, if somebody can come from 40% to 80% by associating with devotees, that’s wonderful.
If somebody is coming to 60%, we can appreciate them also. But we don’t have to come down from 80% to 60%. Somehow, if we have got the faith by the devotees, then we can be elevated directly.
So, Krishna, towards the conclusion, gives this final understanding. Just surrender to me. Are there any questions? Yeah? Speak loudly, it’s not working.
Yes, speak loudly. Other places where other lords or gods other than Krishna and somehow, if we get the chance, then what mood or what vow should we get during obeisance to that particular lord? As we know that Krishna is supreme lord. Yes.
So, if we go to some Devata’s temple, we can pray to them. My dear lord, you are such a great devotee. Please bless me also that I can become a devotee of Krishna.
When Chaitanya Mahaprabhu went to South India to work, he would even go to Shiva temples and there is a Shiva Ashtakam. In Shiva Ashtakam, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was written, glorifying Lord Shiva. And he is talking about how Lord Shiva is so great, how he elevates so many fallen souls and how the Ganga is on his head.
So, he is glorifying him, not as a supreme, as a devotee. And he is praying, my dear lord Shiva, please give me also bhakti like you have. So, we can glorify the Devata and ask for the blessing of bhakti from him.
Just as the Devata is a bhakta, we can also become a bhakta. Clear? Yes. Where is the mic? Yeah.
That, send this message of Allah to all the human beings. It is meant that the person who get 80% now, do the worship of, means try for the 60%. Means Vaishnavas are just like the 80% and Islam is a lower religion.
Means the person who is 80%, in the Quran says that means send this message of Allah to them also. Means if they get 80%, means told them that 80% is not good, 60% is good. How this is? Ok, ok.
So, if somebody is at higher level and a lower level message comes along to them, then, but the people who are at that level, they think that our message is the highest. So, how do people get elevated gradually and how can we understand this whole system? See, first point is Allah and Krishna are the same. Allah is a quality.
Allah is all merciful. Krishna is all attractive. As all attractive, he is also all merciful.
So, first of all, the God is the same. The sun may be called Surya or Ravi or Bhaskara by different names. Now, when we understand that there are, there is a mountain, there are different ways to climb up to the top of the mountain.
So, say the Muslims are climbing up in one way. The Christians are trying to climb it up in another way. The Vaishnavas are trying to climb up in another way.
Ultimately, all of them have to climb up the mountain top. Now, we have to see whether by following a particular path, a person is actually climbing up. Now, some people want to prove my religion is the best religion.
My religion is the best religion. And they say, all of you should convert to my religion. It’s like somebody on this side of the mountain is trying to climb up.
You pull him down from that side and make him come to the other side, climb up from here. That’s stupid. Encourage the person to climb up from wherever he is.
But Prabhuji, it is a… No, let me complete the point. So, some, so this sort of conversions which happen at a material level, they are of no use. Somebody is, in South India, for example, a lot of Christian conversions are happening.
Hindus are getting converted to Christianity. So, actually speaking, what is happening? The real conversion should be vertical. Somebody is a materialist, becomes a spiritualist.
Somebody is a lover of matter, becomes a lover of God. But what is happening over here? Somebody is a Hindu materialist, he becomes a Christian materialist. There is no substantial difference by that.
And so much of the energy gets wasted. That person himself could have advanced himself, but so much of culture gets disrupted, society gets disrupted. So, what has happened over here is, religion has become an expression of the false ego of a person.
There is one devotee, one of our devotee scholars, Stephen Rosen, Satyaraj Prabhu. He was from a Jew background earlier. So, one time he was sharing Krishna consciousness with his Jew family members.
And then his uncle started looking at him sceptically. Are you trying to convert me? Now, this Satyaraj Prabhu knew that his uncle was an atheist. I didn’t know that you belong to any religion.
He said, I am a Jew. Of course, I am an atheist, but I am a Jew atheist. Now, what is the meaning of being a Jew? The first commandment is, the most important commandment is, thou shall love thy Lord with all thy heart, all thy might.
Now, how can there be a Jew atheist? That means, what has happened, that the name Jew has just become a part of the false ego of the person. So, similarly, Islam can become a part of the false ego of the person. And person can just go about arguing, my religion is the best.
Everybody should convert to my religion. So, even if there are some statements in the Quran like that, we have to understand them contextually. That’s why the letter of the scripture is important.
But more important, the letter is the spirit of the scripture. If somebody sticks to the letter of the scripture and neglects the spirit, then that same scripture can become a tool for that person to become arrogant. I am just, I am right and everybody has to come to my way.
So, there are objective criteria. So, different religions are like different hospitals. And people are to be cured.
People are to be cured from bhava roga, from being lovers of matter to lovers of God. So, actually speaking, if somebody observes objectively within the Vedic tradition, there are saints who have developed exalted levels of love of God. Just left everything of this world just for the sake of God and actually developed love of God.
So, what does that mean? It’s like one hospital patient is saying, your hospital treatment is wrong, your hospital treatment is wrong. And the patients are going there, getting cured, getting discharged also and you keep saying that wrong, wrong, wrong. What is the use? So, that’s just narrow mindedness.
We should not get disturbed by this narrow mindedness. So, the letter of the scripture is important, but more important than the letter is to understand that the scripture represents the heart of God. And those who are connected with the heart of the God, they can see how the letter of the scripture can be reconciled.
How there is one plan beneath the seemingly different letters of the scripture. But those who are not yet connected with the heart of the God, those who are using their religion to prop up their false ego, what will they do? My religion is the only right religion. Now, as devotees, do we say that our way is the only way? No.
As I told earlier, Prabhupada, he was so prayerfully hearing the full namaz. When Prabhupada would go to Christians, our Christians would come to meet him. What do you think about Jesus? Jesus is our Guru.
He laid down his life for the service of God. He had so much love for God. He is our Guru.
Therefore, they have been surprised. Then they said, if Jesus is the Guru, then we are teaching Jesus’ message. Why do you have to come here? Prabhupada said, that’s because you are not teaching Jesus’ message.
So, what do you mean? The commandments are, thou shall not kill. And you are killing and eating animals. So, Prabhupada encouraged them to become vegetarians, to try to become more devoted to the word of God.
So, similarly, if somebody is following a path properly, we can encourage them to become more God conscious by following that path. But if somebody… How to tell him that this is the ultimate? See, now, what do we… do we say this is Krishna conscious ultimate way? What we say is, there is a mountain, there is a peak on the mountain. And the Krishna conscious way, because this is the Yugadharma, Hare Krishna Mahamantra is the Yugadharma.
So, this is the smoothest way to the top of the mountain. We don’t say this is the only way. The smoothest way.
Now, the smoothest way, is this also just our… because it’s your religion, so you are claiming it’s the smoothest way? You practise and observe it. A person can try practically whatever religious organisations are there in the world. See, how many people are following four religious principles? And how many people have to struggle how much to follow this? And devotees are able to follow it because the Krishna consciousness is giving them a higher taste.
So, ultimately, you know, different hospitals can keep arguing my hospital is better, my hospital is better. Go and see the health of the patients. The patients are getting cured, that is true.
So, what happens is, there are many people in the world today for whom religion is an expression of their false ego. Such people, you cannot make them see sense. You cannot make them see sense.
When religion hijacks the… when religion gets hijacked by the ego, then you can’t help such people at all. So, what we have to do is keep a distance, go to other people who are more interested, who are more submissive, who are more receptive, and through them elevate people, get people to elevate themselves. Is it clear? Okay.
So, we will continue in the afternoon. Now it’s already getting late and we have some other small things also to do. Thank you very much.
Krishna Prabhupada ki Jai. Gaur Bhakti Vindaki Jai. Mithai Gaur Premanandai.