In Vedic context is Varna (caste) system birth based or merit based?

Transcript

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Thank you. I’ll just paraphrase this.
Chaturya Varna Krishna talks about the four varnas, the caste system. How do you see it? Because at one point he also says in varnas I am Brahman. So, he somehow puts, like you know when he is saying that in Vedas I am Samveda in animals I am Singh.
So, I had some people who believe in birth based caste system and I had some people who believe in merit based caste system or a merit based system. So, what happened is the conflict is the people quote that chapter 4 shloka about the four varnas. But, at the same time the people who believe in birth based caste system they say no, no, no.
Krishna also said in his Gita that I am Brahman. You know, I am. So, he is putting Brahmins at top and you know Kshatriya and you know the whole varnas.
So, what is your understanding since you know the Vijayam Gita? Is it a birth based? Is it a merit based? How it is? Okay. So, now first thing is I have read the Gita many times and I have never seen any verse which says Krishna says among varnas I am the Brahmana. Now, he talks about all this in the 10th chapter and while you are mentioning this, I have the 10th chapter opened over here and I searched for varnas within it.
I don’t see Krishna mentioning anything about varnas. It’s not my saying. That’s what I told her also.
So, anyway I don’t think Krishna says among the varnas I am a Brahmana because if you see historically speaking he was born in Kshatriya family. Correct. He appeared in Kshatriya family and he grew up among Vaishyas.
He grew up among Nanda Maharaj and Vishoda which were cowherds. So, I have never seen anywhere Krishna claiming that I am a Brahmana. Okay.
So, that is not true. Now, having said that Krishna himself clearly states that Gunakarma Vibhagasha. This is a merit based system.
So, now having said that it is merit based it does not necessarily mean it is not birth based because merit within the Vedic context, merit and birth can be connected. So, we understand that this life is not our only life. There is punar janma, there is reincarnation.
So, the traditional understanding is that if say souls from a particular varna say if a Brahmana man and a Brahmana woman or a Kshatriya man and a Kshatriya woman they unite within a proper dharma vivaha in a religious context, religious consciousness then they will attract a soul who has similar varna. So, that means the soul who has left a body somewhere else, has died their body has died, they will come into their body. So, it was not that birth was irrelevant.
So, if it was a dharma viva, there is a high chance that the progeny of a particular parent would belong, would have the same disposition as them. And also it is not just birth, again it is upbringing. So, if the upbringing goes on goes on compatibly then naturally the child will grow up and go into that varna.
But that doesn’t mean that varna should be forced on the person. If a person is born in Kshatriya family but they have Brahman varna then that’s what they should be encouraged to do. So, we have the example in the Bhagavad Gita, sorry in the Bhagavatam there is a king Rishabhadev described in the Pancham Skanda the fifth canto and there he has multiple sons and some of his sons grow up to be sages.
Some of his sons grow up to be kings and that’s perfectly accepted. So, in the Bhagavatam it says Lakshanah proktah that we have to look at the Lakshana, we have to look at the characteristics, the behaviour. Even in the Mahabharata when Yudhishthira is talking with Nahusha he says that this system, now he is talking about the thousands of years ago when the Mahabharata occurred and that time he is saying that in the past this system has, this was existing but now it has become messed up because they are not necessarily there has been marriages across varnas and that’s why what is the exact varna of the husband, the wife and what will the varna of the child that is something which is which is difficult to discern and therefore he says we should look at the qualities we should look at the behaviour and based on that we should decide the varna.
So, it was merit based or we could say it was yes, inclination based, it was talent based, it was merit based but birth was not irrelevant. The problem came when birth became the sole criteria and merit became completely neglected. Then it became exploitative and a corrupt system.
So, you are saying primarily merit, gunas but birth is also relevant. What about inter-caste marriages or inter-faith marriages and that happens in ISKCON as well. Yeah, so now as I said in today’s world how much does a particular person’s birth varna matter in the kind of professions that they choose.
Is it that everybody who is born in a Brahmana family they are going to choose a Brahman they are going to choose a Brahmanical profession. No, we live in a world which is quite disorganized as compared to the Vedic traditions standard. So, in one sense each of us has to chart our way in life today.
So, depending on the situation we are in, depending on the kind of people we have access to, we all have to find out the relationship that works best for us. So, there is no Bhagavad Gita verse which categorically condemns inter-caste or inter-faith marriages. Now, in general compatibility is important.
Now, if we could consider a traditional setting where more or less people lived according to the culture of a particular varna. So, then if both the boy and the girl had been brought up in a similar setting, then that sameness of varna was a reasonable guarantor of compatibility. Now, today because that condition is not there, so every individual will have to find out.
That’s why relationships are a big challenge