Isnt it immoral for demigods to unite with earthly women? Why has God created things like intercourse??
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Question from Aditya Mundala Prabhu through Ananta Shesha Prabhu. Almost every day I got the habit to offer respect to Sun God and Moon God. But just after reading this incident of Mahabharata, I was shocked.
I read that Mother Kunti just because of eagerness called Sun God and He appeared. She asked Him to go and told She is not fit for such things and for this Sun God replied, See, now you have called me, now I must enjoy you. How can I go? What my other kinsmen will think, don't worry, you will not lose your virginity.
And then He forced to have intercourse. How could demigod do like this? She is of her daughter's age. She is not willing also.
Just because in heaven one doesn't lose virginity, does it mean that one will be like this? By doing this, is the Sun God not unfaithful to his own wife? Please help me to clear these doubts. How can Yamaraj who is one of the Mahajanas also go for intercourse as asked by Mother Kunti? How can Mother Kunti be faithful then to her husband? How can she go for another man in presence of her own husband? How can King Indra by changing form want to enjoy another man's wife? Why is it said that by Krishna consciousness one gets the quality of demigods? Are these the qualities of demigods? First of all, it is only when we are in a very gross bodily conception, that the whole principle of male-female interaction becomes focused entirely on bodily enjoyment. In cultures that are more dharmic, more spiritual, certainly it's not that everybody is free from that passion of lust and the desire for enjoyment.
But the male-female union is also organized primarily as a means for procreation. So, there is definitely the biological drive for sex, there is the psychological infatuation with sex. But those have become, to a large extent in today's society, the exclusive reasons for sexual indulgence.
Whereas, within nature, wherever there is copulation, there is procreation. The nature sequence is not avoided because human beings have the developed consciousness. So, one way that the developed consciousness gets expressed is that they want to have good progeny and continue on their dynasty.
And in fact, within the dharmic traditions itself, there is aparadharma and there is paradharma. There is lower level religion and higher level religion. So, higher level religion focuses entirely on spiritual and recognizes the material of value only to the extent it contributes to the spiritual.
Whereas in the lower level religion, aparadharma, even materially good things are considered important. So, there is duty to deva, there is duty to pitta-pitra and there is duty to rishis. So, we perform our duties to the devatas by doing yajna, to the rishis by studying scripture, and by the pitra's ancestors, by begetting progeny and continuing the dynasty thereof.
So, in the Vedic tradition, continuing one's dynasty was considered to be a very important duty. And there were various arrangements made by which one's race could be continued. So, these are within the sanction of dharma.
So, one of those is that in case the husband is not able to beget children, then with the consent of the husband, the wife can call a devata and by uniting with that devata, beget progeny. So, now, because we are so physically centered in our relationships, we often don't understand this importance of progeny. So, now, a wife should be faithful to her husband, that is true.
But what does faithfulness mean? At one level, faithfulness means not having sexual relationship with anybody other than the husband. But on another level, faithfulness also means obedience. So, if we look at the Mahabharata, it was not that Kunti was stealthily going around doing something illicit.
It was when Pandu found that because of the curse that he had got earlier, he could not unite with his wife. So, then he decided because he needed progeny to continue his dynasty, he actually asked Kunti to unite with the sages over there in the forest. And Kunti was appalled by the idea.
She absolutely refused and then Pandu requested, even insisted that, you know, it's my duty to my ancestors to continue the dynasty. And then at that time, Kunti revealed the blessing that she had got from Durvasamuni and then Pandu joyfully agreed. So, Pandu said, it will be a blessing for us to have sons through the Devatas.
So, when this union was done under the sanction of the husband, not just the sanction, actually the desire of the husband, even the instruction, the insistence of the husband. So, then that is definitely not considered unchastity. And Kunti initially refused that proposal, but later on, when she found that her husband was insistent, and they did it once, they did it twice, the husband was so insistent that actually he did it thrice for herself and once for her co-wife Madhuri.
So, when it is based on the desire of the husband, it is not considered unchastity. And now, regarding Yamaraj doing such a thing, the Devatas have been given responsibilities which are different from ours. So, are the Devatas unchaste? When they do something as a part of Dharma, the focus is not on sexual indulgence.
The focus is on doing a particular duty, that is helping a race procreate and perpetuate itself that way. So, we see, even Vyasadeva does this with Ambika and Ambalika. So, by which Viduradruta Rashtra and Pandu are born, because their husband Vichitravirya dies early without getting any children.
So, nowhere in the scriptures is mentioned that Vyasadeva becomes contaminated by that. Now, the scriptures also predict that in Kali Yuga there will be this excessive bodily infatuation. So, when they say that the system of Devarena Suto Tvattam is wrong, that the Devar, that means if the husband cannot beget children for some reason, the husband is not potent or husband is not able for some reason or husband is not living, that the Devar, the husband's brother can also do that.
So, that is, and this is talked about not just in the Vedic tradition, in the Abrahamic tradition also. There are many references to this. So, in that particular culture it was a standard practice.
So, there are examples of, in the Old Testament, there are examples of Christian prophets. For example, Judah, when he gets a bride for one of his sons and that son dies before begetting a child, then he asks his other son to beget a child through his brother's wife. So, this was a standard cultural practice in the earlier ages because there the focus was more on procreation than on just worldly enjoyment.
So, when Yamaraj is doing it as a duty, Yamaraj doesn't make it as an affair where there is secret manipulation and scheming and prolonged indulgence. But there is just once, Vyasadev came once from the Himalayas and did the duty of injecting semen and he left. So, same way with Yamaraj also.
So, because it is a duty done, so when the Devatas, they are extremely powerful but at the same time they also have certain responsibilities. So, if certain mantras are chanted to invoke them, then whatever they are invoked for, they are in many ways duty bound to do that. So, that's how Yamaraj doesn't become unchaste to his wife because he is doing this as a part of duty.
The conceptions of duty vary in different parts of the universe and we shouldn't impose our conceptions of duty everywhere. Now, regarding Suryadev or Indra doing that, that is a slightly different situation. Now, actually speaking, if we look at the whole Mahabharata carefully, look at the original Sanskrit and everything, it was Kunti's fault as much as it was Surya's consideration of prestige.
Now, Durvasa, when he was pleased with Kunti, he told her that I will give you a mantra by which you can call the Devata and then Devata will give you a child. So, now Kunti, she was a small girl at that time and she did not really believe Durvasa's words. And then she just playfully chanted that mantra while looking at Surya and Surya appeared.
Now, Surya's considerations might have been selfish in the sense that he is saying that a young girl has called me and then she is sending me off without union. She has called me for the sake of giving a progeny. It's actually an insult.
Now, we have to look beyond the specifics of how Suryadev is blessing Kunti to the principle that Suryadev has come to bless Kunti. Imagine if we call the Prime Minister of the country and then tell him, okay, go away, I don't want anything from you now. Naturally, why did you call me then? I have come all the way.
If you want some favor, ask for that favor. I have come all the way. Imagine if we are going to inaugurate a temple and we invite the President and then till now we have decided that we don't want you to inaugurate the temple.
He has come here all the way and then we send him off without doing the purpose for which we have invited him. That is not correct. So, from Kunti's point of view, it was her playfulness.
We could say it was because of her ignorance. But then when a great sage like Durvasa has given a benediction, she has to take it seriously. So, did Suryadev do wrong? Well, his considerations there might not have been pure but the primary wrong in this case is not only from Suryadev.
Kunti should have consulted somebody else before just chanting that mantra prayfully. Now, it is not for us to judge great characters and at one level everything that happens in the past times of the Lord with the associates of the Lord is transcendental. But when we want to learn some moral lessons, then we have to understand that when there are powers given, responsibilities come with that.
So, Durvasa actually gave that power to Kunti for the sake of getting progeny through the Devatas. So, the very fact that a sage like Durvasa is involved and the higher beings like the demigods are involved, that means it is not just like the clandestine or tamasic affairs that happen in the material world. So, here we are not trying to point out the blame but again it is not that Surya forced himself.
Surya reassured Kunti that her virginity will be preserved and he said that I will give you the blessing of a child. So, now of course because she had called Surya before she was married, so that blessing became a burden for her. But the principle is that Devata is called and it is a matter of honor for the Devata to fulfill the purpose for which the Devata has been called.
Even in the Ramayana, when Lord Ram kills Ravana, at that time Indra and other Devatas appear and then they say that what do you want? Now, we know that you have done what we could not have done. We could not have killed Ravana, you have killed Ravana and you are the Supreme Lord Vishnu. But then you are playing the role of a human being and a darshan of the Devatas never goes in vain.
So, whatever benediction you want, please ask for us. Then Lord Ram says that I don't need anything but please provide abundantly for my servants, the monkeys. So, the point is that the demigods do give benediction.
It is a matter of honor for them to give benediction whenever they are asked for it. So, that's what Surya is doing over here. So, he definitely doesn't force, he explains the situation to her and then he protects her virginity.
So, in that sense there is no way of forcing at all. And then how can Indra do such things? Yes, Indra sometimes does get infatuated and that Indra is uniting with Ahilya, Gautam Rishi. That is definitely wrong.
So, this sort of pastimes and Indra does get consequence of that, he gets cursed and then his body changes to, there are 1000 reproductive organs all over his body because of the curse of Ahilya. I am talking about different pastimes. Indra changing form to enjoy the wife of Gautam Rishi Ahilya.
So, there he gets consequences and Ahilya also turns to stone. So, now the question is how can Indra get such a desire? I have answered elaborately about this in another question about how Brahaspati becomes infatuated. And here I would just focus on the point that these are not the behaviours that are moral standards, they are behaviours that indicate the extent of danger to our moral standards because of the power of lust.
These are not spoken about in a laudatory way, they are spoken in a cautionary way. That even a person like Indra who is Dharmic, who is in fact the king of the Gods, if such a person can fall prey to lust, then what about all of us? So, that is the primary lesson from this pastime. Indra is not acting as a model over here.
And when it is said that by Krishna Consciousness we get the quality of Devatas, it doesn't refer to their uncontrolled lust or anything like that. It refers to their Dharma and their devotion. The Devatas, they are devoted to the Supreme Lord, Vishnu, Bhakta, Smruta, Deva.
And then they have many virtues, qualities. So, it is those qualities that we get by the practice of devotion. Now, thinking more deep about this, I have got few more doubts is another part of this question.
Why has our sweet Lord Krishna made things like intercourse? Why is there a thing like removing clothes of another? Do these things also exist in our eternal home Goloka? Firstly, as I said, we shouldn't have a very limited conception of this whole process. As I said, the sexual procreation, sexual union is a biological drive by which the race is continued. And now that is done, physically it is arranged in such a way that it is done through the union of the bodies.
So, now, for the sake of the union of the bodies, there is a specific arrangement, humans and males and females, not just humans, in all species, various species, males and females have specific bodily organs which unite. Now, that is also a way by which bodily affection or attachment is established. Now, in the human culture, in cultured human society, there is regulation on this.
So, now, if we want to ask why the Lord did something like this, we can ask also then, why did the Lord make a system by which we have to pass stool? We have to eat food to live and we could just have arranged that the food would disappear. Why did the food have to convert into stool and pass away? There are things that are made in a particular way and they are a part of nature. Now, we could give some further reasons that, yes, through the passage of stool the body gets cleansed and then through that also we learn detachment from the body, we shouldn't be so infatuated with the body.
But the first point is that the things are created for a particular purpose. So, we ingest and then we excrete and through the process of excretion we also develop some detachment from the body. So, similarly, just as eating is a bodily function for the survival in this generation, similarly, for the survival of successive generations there is procreation which is required and procreation is done through bodily union.
Now, in human society, because this is regulated, because humans have the capacity to be conscious of higher things, so, there is regulation, one part of regulation is marriage, another part of regulation is wearing clothes. So, now at the time of bodily union, the duly married husband and wife, when they unite together, then the joining of the bodies is not just an act of physical infatuation. If it is done within the precincts of Dharma, then at that time people become co-creators with God.
They assist God in doing something wonderful, in bringing new life into this world. So, it is not that our tradition has necessarily a negative view of sex. It is only when sex is divorced from its purpose that it becomes a source of serious infatuation and distraction from spiritual life.
But as Krishna says in 7.10, that I am sex life that is not contrary to spiritual principles, to the principles of Dharma. So, what does that mean? That means that this is an arrangement created by God and even the experience that a person has during that arrangement, if it is done within the precincts of Dharma, that experience is also experience of God because we are becoming co-creators with God at that time when we are uniting and co-creating. So, when this is within the precincts of Dharma, when it is an expression of two souls coming together through their bodies as partners for life, then it is an expression of mutual affection and mutual affection expresses itself as a child emerging through the synergy of the male and the female.
So, it is not something to be ashamed of when it is done within the precincts of Dharma and it is a part of Krishna's plan for perpetuating the human race and it gives us the experience of God. Now, I have answered separately the question about this being present in the spiritual world and you can hear their answer. But suffice it to say for this point that we have to understand things with their purpose and not just see them from the lens of our own culturally conditioned or culturally produced senses of what's right and what's wrong.
Thank you.