Just as scientific truths are proven, can spiritual truths be proven?

Answer Podcast

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
In science, whatever we have is proven.
So, whatever we have in science is proven. So, what about spirituality or leadership, other fields, is it proven? See, first of all, even when we talk about proof, there are different levels of proof even in science. For example, mathematics, there is what is logic, from mathematics logic point of view, there is a strongest proof.
So, when we talk about science and proof within science, it is not mathematical proof. It is, there are basically three forms of reasoning. There is reductive, there is inductive and there is abductive.
So, mathematics alone, because mathematical level of proof we cannot have in any field except mathematics. There is reductive. Science is based on inductive reasoning.
So, when we say something is proven in science means that till now it has not been disproven. That is what we mean when we say it is proven in science. So, we had certain set of observations based on that, we postulated some hypothesis and then we did some further experiments which have confirmed the hypothesis.
So, but it can any day work out that a future observation may come which may disprove existing theory. So, when we say something is proven in science, it is not at the same level of deductive finality that is there in mathematics. It is basically to the scope of the experiment that we have done, it has been proven right.
So, that is the level of proof in science. Now, when we come to, even in science there are different fields. So, for example, when science goes to, talks about the past, science cannot really do experiments.
Now, what happened 100 years ago or thousands of years ago, what happened at the beginning of the universe, there is no experiment done over there for that. So, there we cannot even use deductive reasoning. So, the form of reasoning that is used that is called as abductive reasoning.
Abductive, this has got nothing to do with abduction in terms of kidnapping. Abductive is a form of reasoning where it is basically inference to the best explanation. So, for example, if we find that this star, say the universe is expanding and if the universe is expanding, expanding, expanding, for as many years we have observed the universe is expanding and from that we infer that, okay, universe has been concentrated as one point in the past from which it expanded.
Now, this is an inference. There is no experiment done to verify it. Basically, this form of reasoning is relatively speaking a much weaker reasoning because there is no repetition possible.
So, when science works, especially with respect to history origins or with respect to anything that is non-repeatable, event that happened long ago, we cannot repeat them to subject them to scientific experimentation. So, here science is on much weaker ground. That is why when science talks about, say, science develops electronic items, it develops mobiles, emails, it is on a much solider footing than when science talks about how the universe came or how life came.
They are basically inferences to best explanations. They are like a crime whodunit mystery solution. There is a room in which a person has been murdered.
Now, who murdered him? You cannot call the criminal back again, do the murder again so that we will catch you red-handed. No, what we have to do is we will look at the evidence and find out what is the best explanation for it. Okay, we saw this person was alive at 9 o’clock and somebody went at 3 o’clock and that time he was dead.
So, who all went between 9 to 3? There is one boy who went, one small boy who went, one elderly lady who went and neither of them had enough strength to push the knife with the force that has gone in. So, who was the third person? Oh, maybe there was a butler inside, the butler killed him. So, now this is inference.
So, basically this is not necessarily true. It could well be that in that same house, there is a trap door somewhere and the murderer came into the trap door and went in and killed and went out. So, when we talk about abductive reasoning, it is never conclusive.
So, even within science there are degrees of proofs. So, deductive reasoning is the most authoritative, inductive is relatively more authoritative and abductive is quite speculative. So, when abductive inference based explanation is quite speculative.
So, science talks about origins, it is something which is not all that authoritative. So, when we come to spirituality and we talk about spiritual principles, the experiment is not just done by the performer, the experiment is done on the performer. So, we are not just the doer of the experiment, we are also doing the experiment on ourselves.
Spirituality talks about transforming our consciousness and as I said, if we practice spirituality, we will experience a higher peace, we will experience higher happiness and this is something no one else can experience for us. So, we have to do the experiment on ourselves and Krishna talks in the Bhagavad Gita, he says, many in the past have practiced this and they have become purified, many in the past and therefore, he says, though in the past in 4.10 he tells, in the past many have done, in 4.15 he says in the past. So, you try the experiment out for yourself.
So, rather than having some faith on, some people may say, oh I have seen God and then we have to have faith that they have seen God, that is not what the Bhagavad Gita talks about. Yes, there are supernatural visions to be had, but they are not the basis of the Bhagavad Gita’s message. The Bhagavad Gita talks about practical transformation and this practical transformation can happen in every one of us.
So, if we connect with people who are spiritual, we can see whether they are getting transformed and we can practice the spirituality ourselves and see whether we are transformed. So, some of us, for most of us in India, Bhagavad Gita is just a part of our culture. So, we may feel it is good, I want to go back to my roots, I want to practice my culture.
But there are today millions of people all over the world who are practicing the principles of the Bhagavad Gita. They had no cultural affinity to the Gita’s teachings. They were attracted to it because it transformed them.
So, the Bhagavad Gita’s teachings have transformed people positively throughout history and they are transforming people positively even now. And so, here the proof is in the laboratory of our own heart. And that’s why we can see the transformed lives of others, but this is not like deductive proof.
So, it is more of experiential proof. Material science is experimental. Spiritual science is experiential.
It is experiential. So, we have to experience it ourselves. Bhakti is a process.
What does it do? Isha is God. Para is transcendental. Anubhav is experience.
Bhakti gives us experience of God. And what is the result of this experience? Viraktir anyatra ca. That one becomes detached from other self-centered experiences.
So, how do we know that somebody has experienced God? I may say I have experienced God. But how do you know that? Or you may say you have experienced God. How do I know that? The point is there is an inner test of bhakti and there is an outer test of bhakti.
Inner test is that I experience God. The outer test is that those who experience God, they will no longer crave for self-centered experiences because they have experienced higher fulfillment. So, if we look at spiritualists and we can see not just the coherence of their teachings, but the congruence between their teachings and their life.
So, if they are also living not for selfish pleasures, if they are living for higher purpose in life, then we can understand that they have, we can at least make an inference to a best explanation that yes, they must have experienced something higher. Now, when I was introduced to spirituality for the first time, I was, I had just given my GRE and I had come, as I mentioned in the introduction, I had come first in Maharashtra, I had come not just first in my college, I had come first in the history of my college. So, since my childhood, my aspiration was always I wanted to be number one.
And I was always among the top, but I was never the number one. It was joint number one I was, maybe second, third. And this was an exam where I was just way above.
The second in my college was 2250. So, 100 marks below. So, I thought I would be so delighted.
And I was delighted. But then after some time, I realized that just looking at the marks doesn’t give any happiness. And I have to, you know, I meet friends and my friends congratulate me and then I feel happy.
And then every time I would meet a friend, I realized that I was waiting for them to congratulate me. If someone didn’t congratulate me, I would say why? Don’t they know what I’ve achieved? Are they envious of me? I felt as if rather than becoming happy, after cracking GRE, I had become more dependent on happiness for others. You know, it’s only when others congratulate me that I feel happy.
I felt that there must be some higher happiness, which does not depend on extremes. I can, I can crack my engineering, I can go to America, I can crack another exam. But all of it is that it’s all going to follow the same old pattern.
I achieve something, but I depend on others for happiness. So, is there some higher happiness in life? I felt that there must be something higher. So, it was, you could say I was frustrated by success.
So, the success did not live up to my expectations. And then I started exploring something higher. And then I met spiritual teachers.
Now, one of my spiritual teachers was a MTech IIT. Other was a person who had gone to America and returned back. And those were two of my prominent teachers.
So, then basically they had achieved what I was planning to achieve. And then I felt that if they had achieved this, and they had turned towards spirituality, why did they do that? They must be experiencing something higher in spirituality. Nobody is forcing.
Nobody is forcing anyone to be a spiritualist. I’m a monk right now, if I choose to, I can give up my monkhood and go elsewhere. So, only because I am finding this way of learning fulfilling, that’s why I’m continuing it.
So, when I observed them, I felt that they had achieved what I was going to achieve. And they have turned from that to spirituality. Therefore, it was an inference to what I felt was the best explanation.
That the best explanation is they must be experiencing something higher. And then I started practicing spirituality. I had certain weaknesses, certain negative thoughts, patterns.
I found that they just dropped dramatically. Dropped dramatically just by a little practice of spirituality. And I was going to a social service organization, as a part of a social service organization, where we would go and teach slum children.
Since my childhood, I had a lot of faith in the power of education. So, I felt that if I could go to these children and teach them, then they would have a bright career. Since I was in the Women Engineering College in Pune, just behind that we had some slums.
So, I would go there. And then one of my friends was much more into social service. So, we were, I was doing it a little bit, not that much.
And he had gone to a village, and he had started a huge literacy, led a huge literacy drive in that village. So, then one day he came back, he was completely shattered. Yes, what happened? He said, you know, what we had observed at that time when we were going to the slums is that the men in these families were mostly drunkards.
And they were, were a lot of domestic violence on their wives and their children. And the children were ravaged by that. So, I had this growing doubt at that time itself, you know, my teaching them maths or science or English, how much is it really going to help them? But that was all that I knew.
So, I did that. And then I also noticed that this parent, the fathers of these boys, of these boys and girls, they were not bad people. Now, they were, when I would go there, they would be grateful that you are coming and teaching our children.
But then these children would tell me, and mothers would also tell that once they would drink, it was like they would become a different person. And what had happened was, so we also got from there in our organization, not just doing education, but trying to get people to give up alcohol. So, we would talk about that.
And one of my friend had gone much more in this. And he had gone to this village and he had encouraged many of the parents, many of the fathers to give up alcohol. And that village had become like the model of our organization’s success.
You know, we had transformed so many people. But this boy came, my friend came back and was completely shattered. He said, what happened? He said, just day before yesterday, there was elections over there, the local panchayat.
And the local politician came and he brought five truckloads of free liquor for everyone. And not only the fathers, but even their children had drunk alcohol. He was completely shattered.
I also started thinking at that time that what will, okay, I am giving all this knowledge, but unless people are empowered to use this knowledge, it is like pouring water into a leaking bucket. I may go on pouring water very diligently. But unless people have some basic level of self-mastery, they will not really be helped.
So, that was it. All this was happening. At one time, I just gave my GRE and succeeded.
I was doing social service organization. That was the time when I was introduced to spirituality. And then in my colony itself, I started sharing spiritual wisdom with my friends.
So, my room partner at that time was a nice boy, but he was getting into bad habits. He just started smoking, started drinking once or twice. I could see that he was gliding down.
Fortunately, my parents had brought me up well. So, I had not gotten such things. And I was trying to persuade him to give it up.
But he was not interested. But then when I started practicing spirituality, I asked, I arranged some programs in our college. Somehow, he also came for the program because I had pulled him along.
And then it was just one day, I just told him, I have given up all this. He said, I know all this. I have told you many times I have given it up.
Many alcoholics say I have given up alcohol and then a few days later they drink. It is not so easy. But then one day he said it and he just gave it up completely.
Never went back to it again. So, then I felt this really works. There is something in this process that transforms people.
That people if they have some bad habits, they can give up those habits and they can become better human beings. They can become better and they can contribute better. So, for me it was and then one of my biggest inspirations was a student, I was in Electronics Engineering.
He was a consistent topper throughout. From the first year to last year, he would be number one all the time. And he had got the highest paying job in the history of our college.
So, in every way he was successful. But he was a chain smoker. He said, I cannot study without smoking.
And then in the first year of his working in a big MNC, he got lung cancer and died within one month. It is horrible. So, at that time all these events just jolted me.
So, on one side, I saw that material achievement did not give me satisfaction. On other side, I saw that material social service, it does not really lead to transformation. But sharing spiritual knowledge, it does seem to give people higher happiness.
It seems to change me. It seems to change others. So, I made an inference to the best explanation at that time.
That there is a higher dimension to life. There is spiritual wisdom and the spiritual wisdom brings about spiritual transformation. So, I would suggest that you can also experiment.
But this is an experiment we cannot do in a detached way, putting some chemicals together. We have to do it in ourselves. And ultimately, in life, no one can have absolute certainty.
Even when we go to college, we do not know for sure that I am choosing a particular vocation. Yes, this gives good jobs now. But four years down the line, the market may change and this may not give good jobs.
So, we do act on faith in all walks of our life. When we choose a career, we act on faith. When we get married, we act on faith.
So, we do use our intelligence to choose, but still we have to put faith. So, one definition of faith is to take one step forward, even when you do not have a light for the whole road. If I just have a torchlight, I see one step forward, my torchlight can show me one step forward.
I take one step forward. And then I still have a torchlight. If I look far ahead, the torchlight is not bright enough to show the whole road to me.
I still take one step forward, take one step forward. And if I see it, there is a good road over here, I will keep moving on. So, like that, when we practice spirituality, it is, we use our God-given intelligence and take one step forward, one step forward.
And we will see that this spiritual wisdom is a living reality. So, as we keep experiencing more and more, we will keep moving higher and higher. So, the proof is something which we will experience in our own hearts.
So, thank you very much for your kind attention. We will continue our discussion tomorrow.