Krishna’s love Realize Reciprocate Relish BG 18 63 78 Part 1 HG Chaitanya Charan Prabhuji

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
He can invite the rishis. Hare Krishna.
Krishna Krishna. Hare Hare. Hare Rama.
Hare Rama. Rama Rama. Hare Hare.
Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna. So, In this afternoon series, We will be discussing the principle of how Krishna loves each one of us.
And how that loving nature of Krishna is manifested in our lives as well as in scripture. So, we will talk about it. Based on a section of the Bhagavad Gita.
So, I would like to ask all of you, before we begin. If somebody asked you, What is the Bhagavad Gita about? What is the essence of the Bhagavad Gita? What would you tell? Yes. How to serve the Lord.
Ok. True. Let’s put it this way.
Somebody who has no interest in, Somebody who is very new to spirituality. Say, another co-student, Or a relative. Now, who has not much interest in spirituality or God.
How would we talk about the relevance of the Gita to them? Sorry? How to balance? Ok. Balance with what? When you are balancing, there are two things in a balance, isn’t it? So, balance material life with what exactly? Increase or decrease? It’s maximum. Can you hear me now? Ok.
Ok. How to achieve more balance in our lives. That’s a good thing.
Anything else? Really? When I studied the Bhagavad Gita, you only tell me there are more problems than what I knew. I didn’t know old age, disease, death and rebirth were problems. You are only adding to my problems.
You are not solving my problems. Ok. I am playing the devil’s advocate now.
Yes? How to do birth in a new way? Ok. Actually, I have a new liver, but I have to learn and see to it. Ok.
So, we get a a new vision or a new approach, a new attitude toward life. Yes. Thank you.
Regulation in life. Ok. Why do we need regulation? Ok.
So, regulation can help us. Extremes in life create problems. The Gita tells us about regulation.
True. Good point. Sir, to answer all of my questions, like anything which comes to my mind, whether it is related to the spiritual world or the spiritual world? That’s a bit overambitious.
All questions. If you see, Arjuna spoke the Bhagavad… Arjuna asked Krishna the questions. Did Arjuna ask anything about how to fight? How to use which weapon against which enemy? Did he ask anything about military strategies? Your answer is not wrong.
Even the answer you gave also about solve all problems is not wrong. But for a person who does not already have faith, it can just seem to unbelievably grand. I hope you are getting what I am saying.
You know, answer every question. How can I increase the broadband speed of my phone? Does that answer come in the Bhagavad Gita? I mean, your principle is correct. Basically, there are fundamental questions of life.
Thus, the Gita provides us… We will explore this. See, there are… in life, there are principles which are more or less universal. And then there may be practises.
So practises may be contextual, which come according to time, place, circumstances. So the Gita gives us principles that can provide us a guidance for living. It’s like if I want to go on a journey, and I have a map, then I can know where I am going.
Once I have a map, after that, I may still need a car, I may need a bike, I may go by bus, I may go by plane. So that is a secondary thing. But the most important thing if I want to travel is a map.
A map by which I know where I want to go and how I will get there. So, to say that the Gita provides answers to all problems, well, it gives us principles. And when we apply the principles, we can find answers to the various challenges of life.
So, it is true what we are saying, but we have to be a little more careful in how we phrase it. If tomorrow says, the world’s environment, we are having a lot of environmental problems, what does the Gita say about that? The Gita can tell us some principles. We humans are exploiting nature.
When we have that exploitative mentality, that creates problems. I think it is better, I think it is okay. So, let’s look at this from one particular perspective.
About what does the Gita do? See, broadly speaking, for most people, the world is big and God is small. When I was introduced to Bhakti, I started sharing with everyone else. So when I told my uncle, he said, yeah, I believe in God.
He’s happy there, I’m happy here. So the idea is, many people think even if God exists, God doesn’t matter so much. But as we grow spiritually, as we understand the Bhagavata’s wisdom, what happens is, the world becomes smaller and God becomes bigger for us.
And then, when Krishna becomes bigger for us, that changes the way we look at the world. That changes how we face life’s problems. We can have a greater amount of confidence, a greater amount of clarity.
At the start of the Gita, what happened for Arjuna was that he was torn. If we consider the same journey, at the start of the Gita, if this is Arjuna, Arjuna was unable to fight. Two things, Arjuna was confused and he was discouraged, disheartened.
He was in tears. Now confused is at the level of the buddhi. Discouraged is at the level of the mind.
So both his emotions and his intelligence, both were working against him. Means basically he had to fight. So Arjuna had to fight.
That was his duty. But neither his mana, his emotions were saying, how can I fight? These are my relatives, how can I kill them? There is so much bloodshed. So much killing of relatives.
They are people of my own dynasty. How can I kill them? And his intelligence was telling, a kingdom is not worth it. A kingdom is not as important as protecting my dynasty.
So even from both buddhi and mana, he felt I can’t fight. Some people say that Arjuna became cowardly. And Arjuna lost his nerve.
But you know, so was Arjuna afraid at the start of the Gita? How many of you say yes? How many of you say no? Did Arjuna have fear? Why? Because he is a great hero? And we think he is a good person? So he cannot have fear? Do you think Arjuna had fear or not at the start of the Gita? Yes? How do we know? Yes, the physical symptoms of fear were there. Isn’t it? His bow was slipping out of his hand. His body was trembling.
His hair was standing. So Arjuna had fear. Now say Arjuna, he had fear.
Now then the question comes up, what was the cause of his fear? If somebody is worried. So now, why are you worried? That’s an important question. So what is the reason that Arjuna gives in the first chapter? Why was he so not ready to fight? What was his… If he had fear, what was his fear? Material relationships.
That’s a very harsh assessment. There’s some truth to it. Okay, well let’s start from… Normally if somebody is a coward, what are they afraid of? I’ll be killed.
Personal injury. So did Arjuna even once in the first chapter express fear of his own death? Not even once. That is remarkable, isn’t it? He is facing against an enemy.
There was a fear of his own death. That was not there at all. So then what was the fear? Something stopped him from fighting.
What was it? It was the fear of wrongdoing. Wrongdoing means he was afraid that how can I fight against my relatives? So he was afraid of doing adharma. He thought that fighting would be the wrong thing to do.
And that is what stopped him. So basically what happened to Arjuna at the start of the Gita is that in life we have many different duties. Say right now you are sitting here in this class.
So you are students, you are trying to learn the Bhagavad Gita. So you are sitting here in the class. But suppose you also have a responsibility to manage the kitchen.
And then somebody from there at oh you know we have a crisis in the kitchen. This person was supposed to cook has fallen sick. Now then you look at the phone where phone messages come and you decide should I sit here and hear the class or should I go there and attend? Now you can say both are duties, isn’t it? Taking care of that is also a responsibility.
And you are coming here to learn the Bhagavad Gita. That is also a responsibility. Sometimes Why is this problem coming today? Okay.
Okay. Let’s try that. Is that theory right? Okay.
Sorry? Okay. In the morning it worked, isn’t it? Okay. We will switch if it doesn’t work now onwards.
So sometimes we may have two duties and the two can be done in parallel. Say if the same person says that okay actually our lunch prasadam is cooked, evening prasadam we have issue. Oh then I’ll deal with after the class.
But if two things have to be done simultaneously then it creates a problem. So Arjuna had two duties which told him in opposite directions. One was his Kshatriya Dharma.
Kshatriya means a warrior. Basically a protector. And the opposite side were aggressors.
So the Kshatriya Dharma told him fight. But at the same time the opposite people were also his relatives. So he had a Kula Dharma.
These are all people of my family. The Kula Dharma told him don’t fight. And with these two duties pulling him in two opposite directions he just didn’t know what to do.
Now it’s not an easy decision. Say we along with our brother work in a particular company. And in that company some money has been lost.
Money has been stolen. And we come to know it’s our brother who has stolen the money. We say I have a duty to my brother.
I should protect him. I have a duty to the company. I should make sure the funds are not stolen.
So what should we do at that time? We say oh we should just let our brother get arrested. It’s not that simple. You know.
So when two duties pull us in opposite directions at that time things can become very confusing. So Arjuna’s fear was that if I find this war and our entire dynasty gets destroyed there will not only be so much bloodshed now so much killing now but after that future generations will suffer. The actions of one generation can actually affect many future generations also.
Say when World War II occurred it took a good amount of time for the world to recover. So when the partition occurred in India India, Pakistan the scars now I know several people who had to flee, leave everything from Pakistan and come here. For the people who are from that generation the scars are still there.
So basically one generation’s actions can affect many future generations. So Arjuna is not sure what to do. And that is why in 2.7 when he asks he says he says that I want to know what is Dharma.
He says I want to know what is Dharma means here what is the right thing to do. What is it that I am meant to do over here? How do I know? How do I decide? So for Arjuna the world presented such a big conflict. On one side you do this there is a problem.
Now Arjuna may say ok these are my relatives I won’t fight against them. But is that going to solve the problem? Maybe not. He may decide not to fight but that does not mean everybody is going to agree with him.
Bhima is not going to agree to not fight. Among the Pandavas if you see while the Pandavas are all Kshatriyas they are individuals. So we could say Yudhishthir was the most like a Brahminical Kshatriya.
In the sense that he was very peaceful, tolerant, forgiving. Now Arjuna was somewhere in between. Now Bhima was a Kshatriya Kshatriya.
You could call it Kshatriya squared. It’s like he would be looking for an opportunity to fight. And just because if Arjuna decides I am not going to fight it’s not likely that the war is not going to happen.
The war may still happen and without Arjuna on his side on the side of the Pandavas the war may become more brutal. His family would still be killed. So he started thinking what am I to do in such a situation? So to just say it is material relationships well that’s one aspect of it no doubt.
But his concern was not simply material relationships. It was a sense of duty. And he said okay the Kauravas have done bad things to me but Bhishma and Drona they are my elders.
One is my grandfather, the other is my teacher. Just for a kingdom should I fight against them? Is a kingdom really worth it? So it’s a profound dilemma for him. See in life there are many different kinds of distress.
See there is adversity. So have any of you heard the word adversity? Adversity anyone has heard it? Okay what does it mean? Yes please. Yes, adversity is some bad situation.
Okay. Now I’ll put you in adversity now. There is another word atrocity.
Have any of you heard the word atrocity? Okay. Is there any difference between adversity and atrocity? I was, as Varanasi, one boy said this question is adversity and atrocity. Okay, so what is what is atrocity or what is the difference between adversity and atrocity? So it is not just a bad situation it is a bad situation intentionally created.
Isn’t it? That means say if an earthquake occurs and our home just collapses that is one thing. But if some terrorists come and blow up the home and the home crumbles so among these two, which is adversity, which is atrocity second one is atrocity. So among these two, which is more difficult to bear? Atrocity, isn’t it? So if you see in the Bhagavatam it is spoken ahokashtam aho anyayam yad yuyam dharmanandana So ahokashtam, kashtam is adversity.
Say the Pandavas lost their father when they were very young. What is that? Adversity. Bhima, when he was just a bare teenager he was poisoned by Duryodhana.
That is? Atrocity, exactly. So generally if bad things happen to us that is difficult to bear. Bad things are done to us that is even more difficult to bear.
But in the worst situation is what we call as agony. Agony means bad things have to be done by us. So why would bad things have to be done by anyone? Say, I had friends who are in medical profession they said in the pandemic they had only one oxygen cylinder and their two patients were critically sick.
And you can give the oxygen cylinder to only one person. Now whom do you give it to? And now there is such a caseload that they didn’t even have time to know the case history of the patients. So you might give the oxygen cylinder to one person and the other person is only going to die.
But this person may also have some health complications and this person may also die. So basically you are in a situation where one choice has to be made and that choice is going to hurt someone or the other. So for a responsible person this is the most difficult situation.
You just have to do something bad. We have no bad intentions, we are not bad people but we just have to do something bad. So this is a very difficult situation to be in.
So Arjuna was at the start of the Bhagavad Gita facing such a situation. If he fights, that’s a bad thing. He will be fighting against his elders, killing his relatives.
If he is not fighting, that’s a bad thing. People like Duryodhana will have power and they are going to abuse the power and they are going to do devastating things. So both ways it was a terrible, terrible situation to be in.
And this is what overwhelmed Arjuna. Life sometimes leaves us with no good choices. It’s like there are two choices and there is bad in both the choices.
And that is when we need to decide what is it that I am going to do and how am I going to do it. So it was in this situation that Arjuna faced that a decision has to be made. So if we consider how does Krishna help Arjuna make a decision? What does Krishna tell Arjuna? I said earlier that here, for us God becomes big and the world becomes small as we grow spiritually.
So in one sense, this is what happens. But we will see how that happens. For Arjuna by the end, this is the start of the Gita.
This is chapter 1. Then by chapter 18 what has happened for Arjuna? He is convinced and he is confident. nashto mohasmute labdha tat prasadan mayachuta sthito smigata sandeha karishe vacinam tava So his intelligence has moved from confusion to conviction. And from being discouraged, disheartened he has become confident.
This is a dramatic change. And this is what the Gita can offer all of us. We all will sooner or later face some difficult situations.
Say, in future you get a job. Say, you’ve completed your degree. Some of you are already working, but whatever.
Say, now you have your parents, maybe the parents are elderly and you can get a job right next to where they are staying in the same city and you can take care of them. But then you can go to America and you can earn a lot of money and you can provide financial support to them. But America is not very close.
You can’t come every month to see them. Maybe you can come only once a year. Now, in one sense both you may be doing out of wanting to care for your parents only.
But one is you are offering physical proximity and practical service. The other is you are offering financial support. But each of these, if you are going to offer financial support you can’t offer them physical proximity.
If you offer them physical proximity, there is not a job good enough that will give you anywhere that much money. So, which is the thing to do at that time? So, this is a difficult situation. And there are no straightforward answers to this.
So, when you said the Gita offers solution to all problems, what it means is the Gita will give us principles. And those principles will help us make decisions even in difficult situations. So, let’s try to look at what these principles are.
We will be talking about it’s like the Gita offers a three-step analytical process. So, basically here Arjuna is confused and discouraged. Here he is convinced and encouraged, convinced and enthusiastic.
So, what are those three steps? The Gita says that the three fundamental realities that we need to consider in our life. And if we consider these three realities, then we will be able to better decide how to make a decision. What factors to consider while making a decision.
So, these three things that the Gita talks about are basically the three realities that exist in this world. Does anyone know what are the three realities that the Bhagavad Gita discusses, three key realities? Sorry? Okay. Those are more like three levels of reality.
I’m talking about three fundamental truths of existence, three fundamental components of existence. Okay, the relationship is not a thing. The first two are right.
What are three fundamental… Sorry? Controller, yes. So, basically there is good, there is Jiva, Jagat, Jagdish. So, there are these three realities to consider.
And the more we understand these three realities, the more we will be able to be able to understand how to move forwards. So, we could put this as the world, then the individual, that is the soul, and then there is transcendence. Transcendence is the ultimate reality, Krishna.
So, these are W-I-T. What is that? Wit. So, the Bhagavad Gita wit is intelligence, wisdom, sharpness.
So, the Bhagavad Gita gives us the wit by which we can learn how to make decisions in our life. So, in our three sessions, today, tomorrow, day after, we’ll be talking about these three realities and how understanding these three realities can shape our decision making. Okay.
So, the first aspect is, let’s start with the world. What does the Gita tell us about the world? Yes, it says it is Dukkhalaya. So, most of us know the verse.
Let’s recite it. It’s 8.15 in the Bhagavad Gita. Mām upetya punar janma Dukkhalaya maśāśvatam Nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ Saṁsiddhin paramaṁ gataḥ So, it’s a familiar verse.
Let’s recite it together three times. Mām upetya punar janma Dukkhalaya maśāśvatam Nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ Saṁsiddhin paramaṁ gataḥ Mām upetya punar janma Dukkhalaya maśāśvatam Nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ Saṁsiddhin paramaṁ gataḥ Mām upetya punar janma Dukkhalaya maśāśvatam Nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ Saṁsiddhin paramaṁ gataḥ So, it’s interesting if we look at the verse. What does it imply? What is the implication? This word is Dukkhalaya.
So, what does it mean? Or rather, there is some philosophical point. Like say, we go to a doctor. And we say, I’ve got some disease.
And say, actually, we’ve got some flu. Doctor, this flu is going around over here. There is right now an epidemic of this flu.
Okay, that’s interesting. What does it mean? Does it mean that, okay, you know, we don’t have any cure for it, and you’re going to die. Does it mean that? Not necessarily.
It could mean that, actually, we have run out of medicine because there are so many people who are sick. It could mean that, don’t worry, you know, this is a common disease. Many people have got it.
And we have cured many people. You could also be cured of it. These two are completely opposite implications.
Isn’t it? This is a common disease. This is a widespread disease. That means, so, the same point, it is a widespread disease.
It can mean that, there is no medicine available because so many people are there who have got this disease, they have run out of medicines. Or, it could also mean is, there is a time-tested medicine available. Many people have been cured of this.
So, here, so, it could be, the point is the same. The same point, but there is a point, and there is the point of the point. What does the point of the point mean? Why are you telling me this point? What is the implication of this? So, now, if we consider, at the start of the Gita, chapter one, what is happening? Arjuna is clearly dukkhi.
He is in distress. And, what is the worst number that we discussed just now? Yes, 8.58. It is around the middle of the Bhagavad Gita. And Krishna says here, this world is dukkhalaya.
So, now, what is the implication? Does Krishna say, that Arjuna, you are dukkhi, this world is dukkhalaya, so, stay dukkhi now. Does he mean that? No. If you see, by the end of the Gita, Arjuna is, if not sukhi, at least he is not dukkhi.
He is composed. If he is distressed over here. So, it is ironic over here, that the message that this world is dukkhalaya, actually decreases dukkha of Arjuna.
You say, how can that happen? So, there is knowledge, and there is the implication of the knowledge. What does it imply? So, many people, they say that, there is one scholar who has written a book, he has written an elaborate book, he said, Bhagavad Gita is the cause of the downfall of India. He said, from the time Bhagavad Gita became popular, Indians have always been losing all battles.
Bhagavad Gita became influential in the 9th, 10th century, from that time the Mughals started attacking, and then the British attacked, and he said, there is no parallel in the history of the world, about how humiliating the British defeating India and ruling India was. Because the British population who came to India, was not even 1 in 10,000 of the Indian population. It’s like 10,000 soldiers fighting against 1 soldier, and that 1 soldier wins against 10,000 soldiers.
So, he says, there is no parallel in the history of the world, of so small a number of people, ruling such a large number of people. So, he says, what is the reason for this? Because the Bhagavad Gita taught Indians, that this world is Dukha Laya. So, Indians became very passive.
They didn’t try to change and improve things at all. He said, so this person said, I have never seen, he says, I have never seen any civilisation anywhere in the world, that is as pessimistic as these Indians. Now, is that true? Why? Because we are Indians and we don’t want to hear a criticism of ourselves? No.
See, just because two things happen together, doesn’t necessarily mean they have a causal link. There are some statistical surveys which have shown, that people who have bigger hands, bigger palms specifically, they have better vocabularies. And it’s a widely reported statistical finding.
Then we say, what is the size of the head got to do with vocabulary? But, the fact is, people who have smaller hands, are small kids. And kid’s vocabulary is smaller than an adult’s vocabulary, isn’t it? So, the two facts are related. But, are the two facts occur together? But that doesn’t mean there is a causal connection between the two.
Isn’t it? So, in logic, there is something called causation, and there is something called correlation. Correlation means A and B, they go together. But that does not necessarily mean, A has caused B, or conversely, B has caused A. They are two different things.
Causation is not correlation. Say, right now, I coughed. And maybe the moment I coughed, the power goes off.
You know, because of your cough, the power went off. That’s a ridiculous thing. The two may happen together, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are related in terms of cause and effect.
Now, there are many reasons how India fell. One of the things was, it is not the Bhagavad Gita philosophy, of pessimism. It was actually a naive idealism.
Idealism means what? Krishna himself showed that the real world is a dirty place. And when the opponent is playing dirty tricks, you cannot simply be idealistic all the time. When Krishna had to bring down the Pandavas, or the Kauravas, there are times when the Kauravas, you did brutal things, like six of them came together and tried to kill Abhimanyu, and they succeeded.
But when Krishna told, with the cunning, you have to be cunning. If you are very honest and upstanding and other person is cunning, you cannot win with such a person. So, what happened was, some of the Kshatriyas were foolishly idealistic.
Like one of the Kshatriya principles is that, if anybody surrenders, you should forgive them. But, there is one Indian king, who forgave an Islamic aggressor 17 times. And each time he defeated, let him go.
And the next time when he came, and the one time he won, he just killed him. So, the thing is that, forgiveness is good, but that is not the sole principle to consider. A Kshatriya should be forgiving.
But Kshatriya also needs to consider, that what is good for the whole community. I want to forgive this person, but I also need to protect my citizens. Isn’t it? We have multiple duties, if one principle is absolutised.
So, for example, in some wars, what the opposite party did was, that they would have cows in front of the army. And Indian soldiers thought, Hindus thought, we cannot shoot cows. We can’t kill cows.
But the result of that was, that they lost the war, and after they lost the war, there may be a hundred cows would have been killed. But by not fighting that war, millions and millions of cows have been killed for hundreds and thousands, nearly a thousand years. Isn’t it so? That sometimes, life just doesn’t offer us a good choice.
So, there we have to use the buddhi, to understand which is a less bad choice. Which is a less bad choice. So, with respect to the British, especially, they were very cunning.
They used a lot of deception. Now, this is not to bad mouth the Britishers. Basically, they did what they had to win, and not all Indian kings, like, say, the normal Kshatriya principle is, you fight face to face courageously.
But, we see, Shivaji Maharaj, he won primarily by guerrilla warfare. The opposing army was a hundred times bigger than him, and if he went straight and attacked them, they would have been slaughtered. So, yes, Kshatriyas should not be cowardly.
But not being cowardly does not mean being foolish. Isn’t it? There is a higher cause. So, it is, this whole theory is wrong.
Because Indians were so pessimistic. First of all, even if that were true, Indians were pessimistic, the Bhagavad Gita’s teaching is not that you be pessimistic. Because if that had been the teaching of the Bhagavad Gita, then why did Krishna tell Arjuna to fight? Isn’t it? Krishna could have said, this world is dukkha alaya, and you know, this Duryodhana is causing you suffering, it is your own karma.
Draupadi was this robe, that is her karma only. Yudhisthira lost his kingdom, that is his karma. So, you are stuck with such a family, that is your karma.
So, just live it. Just live with it. Did he take that as an implication? Not at all.
So, the point is that, Krishna tells Arjuna, this world is dukkha alaya, but still after hearing that message, first of all, Arjuna doesn’t become pessimistic and resign. Arjuna becomes confident, Arjuna becomes active, and he fights. So, what is the actual implication of dukkha alaya? That is what we will try to discuss now.
So, when Krishna says this world is dukkha alaya, it does not mean that stay miserable. You know, this world is a place of distress, so stay miserable. That is not the meaning of the point at all.
The point is, don’t make avoiding misery, don’t make avoiding misery, the basis of your decision making. So, the idea is, I will explain what this means, that in life, when we say the world is dukkha alaya, it means, sometimes, the world is dukkha alaya, it means, that life may sometimes just not provide us any ideal solution, any perfect solution. Sometimes they say in negotiations, there is conflict, just have a win-win kind of solution.
We definitely should try for a win-win kind of solution. But sometimes, it is just not possible. If one person just wants to destroy the other person, and he says the purpose of my life is to destroy you, let’s have a win-win solution.
And the only way I win is if I destroy you. That is just not possible. We will talk about, why some people think like this when we talk about next part, in our next session.
But sometimes, all that we have is trade-offs. You know what is the word trade-off mean? Trade-off is, that is a trade, that is not a trade-off. Okay, trade-off, it is a little bit trade.
Trade-off basically means, it’s like a adjustment, settling. So sometimes, we just have to have, okay, I can get a job which gives me a lot of money, but it has terrible work hours. I have to work 18-20 hours a day.
I can get a job which is only 8 hours working, but I don’t get that much money. Now, if I want a job which gives a lot of money, and I have to work only 2 hours a day. You are not going to get a job like that.
Most people are not going to get. So, sometimes we may not have an ideal solution. But we may decide, this is a trade-off.
Maybe at this point, I have a lot of debt, so I need more money. So even if it goes with working a lot of time, I will work. But somebody might say, no, yeah, I need money, but there are many other things in my life.
I have my spirituality, I have my family, I have my health. So even if I get little money, I will accept it. So the point is, lot of frustration comes in our life, when we are not able to find a solution to a problem.
But if, when Krishna says this world is Dukkhalaya, that means he says, Dukkha is going to come in our life. But, just because Dukkha is going to come, doesn’t mean we have to be constantly in Dukkha. But that just means, don’t wait for a solution where there will be no Dukkha at all.
So in the context of Arjuna, this world is Dukkhalaya means, for him, what is he saying? That you have to fight against Bhishma and Drona. That is a Dukkha. That is a very painful thing.
But, pain is unavoidable. So therefore, don’t make your decision based on, how can I avoid pain in my life? Now, that doesn’t mean we want to go out and embrace pain. But the point is, that if you choose a college, now, if a student says, okay, what is the criteria for choosing the college? Where I have to study the least? Okay.
Now you may say, if that is the college you want to study, then, you might get a college like that. But then we are not going to learn much. We are not going to have a good career thereafter.
So somebody may say, okay, I have got my parents’ business. I just want a degree. Okay, then that is a factor to consider.
So the point I am making over here is, that if somebody is taking a decision, only based on, which is the path of the least suffering, that can often make a person, take bad decisions. Yes, there is something more to consider. And I will talk about what is that more, shortly.
But let’s take another example. The word Dukhalaya, is like the word Himalaya. Now what does the word Himalaya mean? It’s a place of ice.
So if somebody goes to the Himalaya, it’s going to be cold. Isn’t it? So, now, if, say, somebody is going up, trekking up the Himalayas, she says, why are you going up the Himalayas? To avoid cold. Really? That’s really brilliant of you, Mr. Einstein.
So, now, if we are going up the Himalayas, we cannot expect to avoid cold. But that does not mean, that we have to freeze in cold. That we just go wearing very thin clothes, and we freeze to death.
It is, that if somebody is going to the Himalayas, if we consider their experience, now cold is going to be a part of their experience. Even if somebody goes with the best warm clothes, well, sometimes you have to take a bath, at that time you have to take out your clothes. Even if you have AC, even if you have heating, sometime or other the cold will come in.
Isn’t it? So, we cannot avoid cold completely. Now, is cold the only thing that a person experiences in the Himalayas? What else is there to experience? Sorry? You could say, there is nature’s beauty. Nature’s beauty, majesty.
Then what else is there? Yeah? Animals, okay. You could put it flora and fauna. Anything else? Trekking, yes.
There is adventure. Isn’t it? So, going up, there is a sense of adventure, a sense of achievement. What else is there? Sorry? If you are of a spiritual inclination, what is there? Peace, okay.
There are yogis, there is. There is spirituality over there, isn’t it? The spirituality could be, we could go to temples high up, we can have darshan of Badrinath, we can meet with the sages over there. We can just go in the sacred places and bask in the atmosphere over there.
So, there is a lot to experience over there. Apart from the cold. But all that experience will only be possible when we accept that it is going to be cold.
Isn’t it? If somebody is constantly complaining, oh, it’s so cold, it’s so cold, it’s so cold. Then people around will say, what you are saying is so old, so old, so old. Isn’t it? So, if, if we fixate on cold, then what will happen is, our experience will only be the cold.
That will fill our experience. If somebody thinks, oh, I don’t want to experience any cold. Then even a little bit cold will be a big problem.
Now, on the other hand, if somebody wants to go to a holy place, somebody wants a sense of adventure. Say, at that time, somebody wants to say, they want to focus on spirituality. They are going on a spiritual pilgrimage over there.
Then what will happen is, in that, spirituality will fill their experience. And cold will still be there. But cold will become a small experience.
So, for all of us, it is that each one of us, we need to decide what is it that we are going to focus on. So, for everybody in life, there will be distress. That is just a fact of life.
The distress may be of different kinds. And yes, there are some distresses which are far worse than others. I was just, before I came for this class, I was talking with a friend, very nice devotee scholar.
He is based in Israel. And he actually stays right close to Lebanon, the border. So, he says that, it’s like, every night, we hear the alarms going off, the rockets being discharged, the missiles being discharged.
And although they have the Iron Dome, but nobody knows how many missiles can it sustain. And if at any time, the Iron Dome, you know what is the Iron Dome? Iron Dome is basically like a technological marvel. So, it’s like when it is cold, you create an umbrella.
So, Israel has got this high-tech system, that whenever it detects a missile coming towards Israel, then all of Israel or at least the major part of Israel gets covered with this dome, like an electronic dome, and then whatever missiles come, they hit the missile and it just dissipates. It hits the dome and it dissipates. So, it’s extraordinary the way they have created it.
But still, it’s untested if hundreds and hundreds of missiles are coming at the same time. So, how much can it sustain? Because what happens is that the missiles also can become stronger and stronger. They can get more expensive missiles.
So, he says that for almost one year, I have not slept continuously for more than one hour. Like one hour I sleep, then I hear something, wake up and near their home is the bomb shelter. So, they rush to the bomb shelter, they come out and they go back inside.
So, certainly in the world, there are places of greater distress. And there are places of lesser distress. So, we’re not saying that all distress is the same.
Certainly, there are more distresses. But at the same time, everybody in life will have distress. So, when you talk about distress, it can range from dissatisfaction to devastation.
So, what is the difference, do you think, between dissatisfaction and devastation? Have you heard the word devastation? In cricket, sometimes it is a devastating knock or devastating balling spell or something like that. They have it. So, what is the meaning of devastation? Completely destroyed.
So, like if we have certain plans, this is how we should do. Devastation means things are completely opposite of what we expected. Opposite of expectation, plan, hope, dream.
That is devastation. So, we expected say, to win against team 5-0. And they defeat us 0-5.
So, you know. So, it’s complete opposite. That is devastation.
So, what is dissatisfaction? So, things are not good enough. Are not as good as we expected. So, now in one sense between dissatisfaction and devastation, there is a huge difference.
But in terms of distress, both are distressing. Say, if we come expecting a feast and expecting a particular delicacy is going to be there. And maybe we like malpua.
We expect malpua to be there. And there is no malpua, there is only poha. And then, you know, okay, it’s not the end of the world.
It’s not devastation. But still there is dissatisfaction. Isn’t it? And it is not joyful.
So, when we say distress in the world, that doesn’t mean it has to be devastation all the time. It can be dissatisfaction also. That things are not as good as I had hoped.
As I had expected. Or things are totally terrible. So, in life, distress is always going to come upon everyone.
And we need to make peace with that reality. We need to make peace with that. So, when the Gita says this world is dukkhalaya, it means basically don’t look, don’t expect an ideal situation in life.
Don’t expect that life will be like utopia. When I go to Canada, I stay at one devotee couple’s home. And so that the husband is a marketing in charge for a big company.
But he is also a marriage priest. He has learned the ritual. He is from south Indian family.
He has learned the ritual. He does marriages. And his wife is into what they call as family law.
Now, family law is just a polite word for a divorce attorney. Divorce attorney means when a couple gets separated, how should the property be divided. So, they joke, you know, we are the complete couple.
You come to the husband to get married, you come to the wife to get separated. So, there is Mataji, she was, both of them are Indians, settled there in Canada. Mataji was telling me that the kind of reasons why sometimes people come because of separation.
This happens especially among westerners. I don’t want to generalise. There are many people who are really responsible.
And he said that you know, one woman came, I want to separate from my husband. And in America, in the western world, there is very rigid separation of rules. Like in India, if we go to attorney and say, no, I want to separate.
Then the attorney may be a little older than us. He is like a uncle or a father figure and say, you know, what is the issue? Do you really want to do this? And then, can you settle things? They will try to give some advice. But there in the west, it is the complete separation of rules.
That if I want to fix my marriage, I will go to marriage counsellor. If I want to end my marriage, I will go to attorney. The attorney is not supposed to give me advice how to fix my marriage.
So, but still they have to fill the documents and give reason. So, this woman, she said that okay, why do you want to separate? No, I and my husband are incompatible. Incompatible is a very common reason, incompatibility.
Okay, it is very vague. So, we have to give some more description. What is incompatible? So, she asked, what is incompatible? She said, we cannot agree on the temperature of the AC in our home.
So, there are people who don’t even have a home, what to speak of AC in their home? And she said that, you really? Is that the reason you couldn’t even speak? Yeah, you know, I thought, you know, I thought he is my dream partner. And if he is my dream partner, if he is really my dream partner, our body temperature should sync with each other. Now, it is such a completely crazy expectation.
Isn’t it? So, another couple, they came and they said, you want to separate. Why? He says, I am a roller, he is a squeezer. Says, what do you mean? He says that, when in the bathroom, use a toothpaste.
So, you know, I roll the toothpaste. That means, you know, the front part toothpaste should come out first. Then the part behind it.
The part behind it. So, the shape of the toothpaste, it has to be like art. So, those are, some people are like, they are rollers.
You know, this part squeeze first and this part after. Some people are squeezers. So, he said, that is incompatibility.
And we want to separate. Now, of course, there could be some bigger reasons. But the point is, that if somebody has this ideal, this dream, you know, they are going to be a perfect couple.
It’s like, what happens is, what do they say, love is blind, marriage is an eye-opener. So, nobody, nobody is ideal. We are not ideal, other people are not ideal.
So, everybody has to accept that some amount of dissatisfaction is going to be there. But if people go into life itself expecting there should be no problem, there should be no incompatibility, then what happens? Then there is a big, then even a small problem becomes big. One of my God brothers, he came to my spiritual master and he said, in 80s, he said, I want to join as a brahmachari.
And so, he thought, you know, he is a very well-educated person, he thought, Maharaj will be very happy, I want to join. At that time, in the 80s, not many people were joining as brahmachari, not many educated people. So, a spiritual master asked him, why do you want to join? He was still taken aback.
He thought, oh, welcome, welcome, wonderful, he said. He said, oh, you know, there are so many problems in the world. So then, there are so many problems in the ashram also.
You know, if you leave the world because there are problems and come to the ashram, then when there are problems in the ashram, where will you go? He said, let me think about it. So then, he came, after a few days, he came back and he said, you know, I actually had not thought about that question, but actually, he said, you know, I have read Prabhupada’s Lila Amrit, I have seen how much effort he has done for preaching this mission, for spreading this mission, and I want to assist in this mission. I want to assist you, I want to assist the followers of Prabhupada.
So, Maharaj said, this is a good motive. If you are simply trying to avoid problems, problems are going to be there everywhere. Of course, you can say that there are more problems some places, less problems some places, but if somebody is simply trying to avoid problems, that is not a healthy motive for decision making.
Yes, the ashram is still in the material world. So, there is going to be some dukkha here also. But, if somebody is going up the Himalayas, and they are so eager to see, they have the darshan of Badrinath, then that eagerness will make sure that, okay, it is so cold, or it is so tough, I am so tired, all that will be overshadowed by the eagerness.
So, similarly, for us, when we are making decisions, we need to have a higher purpose to our life. So, when we have that higher purpose, then, the dukkha that we inevitably will face in life, we will be able to deal with that. So, when Krishna is saying, this world is dukkhalaya, the main implication of this is, not that it is dukkhalaya, so say dukkhi.
Not that, don’t ever try to decrease the distress in your life. No, it is not that. It is focus on what is meaningful for you.
Focus on what you really value doing in life. And when that is prominent, then distress will become manageable. So, I will make one more point and then we will have few questions.
So, now, when we talk tomorrow about individual, at that time, we will talk more about the principle of dharma. What is dharma? What is duty? What is bhakti? We will talk about all that when we come to it. But the principle here is that, in life, we want pleasure.
But actually, what we want even more is meaning. Meaning means artha. We want to do something of value.
How many of you like humour? Humour, humour. How many of you like humour? Those who are not raising their hand, either they don’t understand the question or they really don’t. They are really weird.
Who cannot like humour? We don’t like inappropriate humour. Sometimes a joke at somebody’s expense, it may be like not a good thing. But everybody likes to laugh.
So, now, if we like humour, then will we like comedy shows? Yeah, good comedy show we can like. But suppose tomorrow, somebody comes and tells us that from tomorrow morning, from now onwards, you have no financial responsibilities, you have no family responsibilities, you have no professional responsibilities, you have no obligation at all. I will take care of everything for you, you just have to do one thing.
From morning to night, sit and watch comedy shows for the rest of your life. Now, will you want to do that? Yeah, it’s fun, but maybe if we are bored, half an hour we watch a comedy show, we are really frustrated, we spend 2-3 hours, we are really fed up, we might just binge on comedy shows for a weekend. But after that, we will get bored.
Isn’t it? Just laughing, what is the point of it? So, see, what happens is, if there is pleasure without meaning, it becomes boring. Sorry, it is here. Where is pleasure but no meaning.
So, just watching comedy shows, watching comedy is what? It is meaningless pleasure. And, meaningless pleasure, we don’t want this meaningless pleasure. Isn’t it? So, now, we could say, this is the worst.
This is unbearable. If there is no meaning and there is no pleasure. Isn’t it? Say, if we have a job that pays very little and we don’t like that job at all.
There is no job satisfaction, there is no remuneration. Why am I in this job at all? Isn’t it? If there is no pleasure and no meaning, that’s a terrible situation to be in. But we often say, we are pleasure-seeking creatures.
That is true. But, sat-chit-ananda. Chit is conscious and with our consciousness, we seek meaning in life.
So, we don’t, ananda comes later actually. So, what we really want is meaningful pleasure. So, you could say, if there is meaning and pleasure, that is the best.
Isn’t it? So, I love the job, it pays me a lot, then that’s the best situation to be in. There is meaning also, there is pleasure also. Now, what about a situation where there is meaning but not pleasure? You know, this is acceptable.
It may not be the best, but it is acceptable for us. Isn’t it? Say, if you are studying in a university. Now, maybe the hostel is not very comfortable, the food is not very comfortable.
But, you understand, this will help me to have a good career in the future. So, that sense of meaning is there. So, meaning, we may, we often want meaning more than pleasure also.
Not all the time, but frequently we are ready to give up pleasure for the sake of meaning. Like, when the Indian independence struggle was happening, at that time, Subhash Chandra Bose said, You give me blood, I will give you freedom. So, I will give you only blood and sweat and toil.
That, I promise, you give me all these and I will give you freedom. Now, maybe, under British rule, Indians were not comfortable. They were not prosperous.
But, definitely, it was far better than going out from a physical comfort perspective. It was better than going out and fighting in a war, often with less weapons against better armed enemies. But, the independence had such meaning that the pleasure, ok, we are ready to sacrifice it.
So, the point is, for all of us, meaning is important. And meaning is often more important than pleasure. That doesn’t mean we don’t want pleasure.
We want pleasure, but the whole world tells us that pleasure is what will make us happy. But, what they do is, eat this, buy this, watch this, touch this. That will make you happy.
Not really. Why? Because that is, in one sense, just possessing, possessing, possessing. That is meaningless.
See, generally, when people want to possess a lot of things, at the core of our heart, we know that just buying a lot of things and flaunting my wealth, that’s not going to make me happy. What we hope is that if I am wearing flashy clothes, if I am having a lot of expensive things, then people will be attracted to it. People will love me.
People will respect me. And that is what we think is meaningful. So, in one sense, we look for possessions, but possessions themselves are not meaningful.
We are looking for love. We are looking for relationships. And relationships are what we think we will get by this.
So, pleasure and meaning, are they related? Some places they can be. Like sometimes they both can go together. But when they go opposite, at that time, it is, at least in some parts of our life, we need to be ready to choose meaning at the cost of pleasure.
So then, that’s how we learn and grow. So, when Krishna is telling Arjuna that this world is dukkha laya, what its implication is that that don’t let gaining pleasure or avoiding pain be the basis of your decision making. Think of what is meaningful.
Think of what will bring meaning and purpose and value to your life. And use that as a basis for decision making. Now, how does one find meaning? For that, we will discuss the next two parts.
Our individuality and ultimately transcendence. God’s existence, place and purpose in our life. How does that relate with it? But essentially, this dukkha layam is not a recipe for pessimism.
So, we discussed today, Gita, I will summarise what we discussed. Gita is basically a guide for decision making. That is the point we are discussing.
So, I discussed broadly three main points. We talked about how in the Gita, Arjuna is torn between two duties which pull him in opposite directions. One is the Kshatriya Dharma and the other is the Kula Dharma.
And we discussed how for a responsible person, the greatest pain is not just through adversity or through atrocity. It is through agony. Agony means what? That a bad thing has to be done by me.
So, Arjuna was in agony. Arjuna’s fear was what? That what is the right thing to do? I do not know. This is a very, very painful situation for Arjuna to be in.
So, the Gita helps Arjuna to make a decision. And how exactly does it do that? That’s what we are going to discuss. What does it talk about? W-I-T.
What W was? World. So, nature of the world, nature of the individual and understanding transcendence. So, this is Jagat, Jeev and Ishwara.
So, from being confused, if you understand these things, you can become convinced, you can become encouraged. So, then I discussed elaborately, the world is Dukhalaya. So, when it is Dukhalaya, what does it mean? Does it simply mean that stay in distress, stay in misery? No.
It is not a call for pessimism. If you are in distress, stay in distress. We discussed in this connection, the difference between correlation and causation.
If India lost, Indians lost against others, it is not because they were pessimistic to the Bhagavad Gita, they were naively idealistic. So, the Gita tells us to be realism. The word realism means what? That don’t expect ideal situations or ideal solutions.
Be ready for trade-offs. Sometimes, we have to accept that, I won’t get everything right. I have to accept that something may not work out, but something will work out.
So, Dukhalaya, what is the trade-off here? That, don’t decide based on avoiding distress. How can I avoid distress in life? That should not be the basis of our decision-making. We discussed about how? If somebody wants to go up the Himalayas, cold is going to be a part of their experience.
But, they can also have spirituality as a big part of their experience. Similarly, for us, distress is going to be a part of our life’s experience, but that doesn’t have to be our soul experience. And that connection, we discussed how? For us, how can we accept this Dukhalaya? Accepting Dukha.
How is this possible? When we understand that more important than pleasure is meaning. There is something of value for us. So, we discussed this quadrant that if there is only pleasure but no meaning, that doesn’t work.
It becomes boring, it becomes tiring. If there is neither pleasure nor meaning, that’s terrible. This is acceptable.
That if there is meaning but no pleasure. And now, the most desirable are both pleasure and meaning. So, Krishna, right now, Arjuna is in, if we consider 1, 2, 3, 4, Arjuna is in which quadrant? He should be in the, or we should also ask him in the third quadrant.
Prioritise meaning even if there is no pleasure, temporarily at least. So, how to find that meaning so that the absence of pleasure is not felt so badly? Like, if I am focused on going up the Himalayas, then the cold doesn’t trouble me so much. So, how to find that meaning, that we’ll discuss in tomorrow’s session.
Any questions or comments? Yes, please. Thank you, Prajeev, for wonderful explanation. Prajeev, you explained you explained the, about the Himalaya and distress and other things we face.
So, like, it is different from the theory of attraction, but how can we, like, explain in more better way, like, it is different from the principle of attraction. Like, whatever we think, like, we can get and we can achieve that. How is the Bhagavad Gita’s teaching different from the principle of attraction? Like, the second point about the Himalaya and that you explained, like, there is snow, cold, as well as the… Okay.
So, the principle of attraction, we can switch that off, I think. The principle of attraction is the idea that whatever you desire, if you desire it strongly enough, then it will become manifested. So, there is some truth to it, but it is not the ultimate truth.
See, like, one of you mentioned earlier, the three levels of reality. Which are the three levels of reality? Yes, there is spiritual, mental and physical. So, for something to happen, all three levels of reality need to work cooperatively.
For example, if I want to make some art, if I want to draw something right now, so then my hands have to work properly so that I write or draw something. But, say, if I am drawing some particular shape which I am not very confident, then my mind also has to be involved so that I can draw it as well as I can. So, the mind’s effort is also a part of the effort that we do.
And many times people make efforts at the physical level, but the mind is sabotaging them internally. They are doing something at the physical level, but inside the mind is saying, it’s not going to work out. You know, you are not going to succeed in this.
Now, it’s like, our own energy is being cut off. Like, army is going to fight, and while the army is charging, some half of the soldiers are saying, we are not going to win, better we should not fight only. Well, if somebody is discouraging like that, it’s a very dangerous thing.
Isn’t it? So, the mind is also part of the picture. And getting the mind aligned when we are trying to do something challenging, it’s important. Now, the problem is that there is one extreme is the mind doesn’t matter at all.
In the history of science, there was a phase when science almost completely rejected the very idea of the mind. It is a school of thought called physicalism. Not materialism, but physicalism.
Physicalism means, physical reality is the only reality. And for that, people are simply stimulus response machines. What goes on inside doesn’t matter.
So, the mind was completely neglected. Why is there disease? Oh, you know, this particular germ is coming, you put in this medicine and the germ goes away and you get cured. To some extent, there is truth to it.
But they found, some people get cured faster, some people get cured slower. And a lot depends on what a person’s state of mind is. So, the one extreme is to treat the mind doesn’t matter at all.
But the other extreme is to treat that the mind is all that matters. So, for example, somebody may be a very strong believer or proponent of this law of attraction. But suppose that person says, I’m not going to grow old, I’m not going to grow old, I’m not going to grow old.
Well, is that actually going to stop the ageing process? Now, we may say, yeah, age is a matter of the mind. Well, age is partly a matter of the mind. Like somebody, some cricketer is 45 and that person bats very well.
That’s amazing. We appreciate that. But why do we appreciate that? Because normally, everybody can’t do it at the age of 45.
Isn’t it? And even that same cricketer, we may say age is a matter of the mind. But that same cricketer at the age of 25 would be far more athletic than he was at 45. Maybe they’re more experienced, not able to perform better.
So, is age just a matter of the mind? No. Is age a matter of the mind? Yes, of course. If somebody is constantly thinking, I’ve grown so old, I’ve grown so old, I’ve grown so old, then what they can do also they will not be able to do.
So, the mind is one factor. So, going back to the Himalaya example, that, are the Himalayas cold? Yes, of course they are cold. But, if we dwell on it too much, the cold will become unbearable.
We will feel the cold much more. But, if we don’t dwell on it so much, we won’t feel it that much. But, it is not that there is no objective reality of the Himalayas being a cold place.
So, the problem of the principle of manifestation is, it holds that the physical reality doesn’t matter at all, in the sense that, all of physical reality can be completely changed just by changing mental reality. No, mental reality can play a part in changing physical reality. But, physical reality is in some aspects unchangeable.
So, my having a positive attitude, oh, I’m going to have a wonderful time climbing up the Himalayas, I’m going to have a great adventure, that is not going to change the objective reality, if the temperature is 4 degrees Celsius. It’s not going to change that. So, the mistake is to think that the mind is all that matters.
Okay? Any other questions? Yes, please. Thank you, Pooji, for this wonderful analysis and how we can understand Gita very well. Pooji, one question was coming in the mind, that we often hear in our spiritual discourses, the role of prayers and mercy also.
That, here we are discussing three levels of realities. So, as per how it happens in the world, how Lord is acting, how we have to do. But then, we also hear that, if we are not able to do, then we have to do prayers.
And then, if Lord will be merciful on us, then we will be able to do. That distress which we are facing may go away also. So, Pooji, how that role is there in this discussion? Yeah, good point.
So, what can prayers do? See, prayers, Krishna is the supreme controller. So, Krishna can act at all three levels. At the physical level, Krishna can actually remove the problem itself.
That is possible. That means, say, if you have a boss at a workplace who is a terrible, a terrible person, basically. Not just, he is troubling everyone.
And we pray to Krishna and the boss gets transferred somewhere else. You know, that is removing the problem itself. Now, sometimes it can happen at a mental level.
At a mental level, that means, maybe we get some insight, our attitude changes, something happens and it removes the pressure of the problem. The problem may be there, but we don’t feel the pressure so much. That’s when something else becomes bigger.
That, okay, I am doing this job, not to please this boss, but I want to earn Lakshmi so that I can take care of my family or I want to do this particular service and he is helping me to give donations for this, whatever. So then, the focus, like I said, one thing is smaller, the other thing is bigger, so maybe the boss’ behaviour just becomes smaller. We all may have experienced this, that maybe before we started chanting Hare Krishna, practising Bhakti, our problem would cause a lot of anxiety to us.
Now a similar problem comes, we are still anxious, but it is not that big. So, the problem is there, but the pressure is far lesser. Now, at a spiritual level, that it is that if Krishna can act and then he can remove the attachment completely.
Not that it makes us irresponsible, but, say, if somebody was mad about cricket and then, if India loses, they are heartbroken. I was in Canada, I met one person, I thought he is from India, he is from Sri Lanka and he told me that, it seems between 2011, India defeated Sri Lanka only in the World Cup? From 2011 to 2015-16, it seems Sri Lanka went to the three World Cup finals, different kind of World Cups, T20 and this and that, and they lost in all three finals. So, he said, two of my friends were there, we were all big cricket fans and each time Sri Lanka lost, we were devastated.
And then finally, third time it happened, he said, one of my friends committed suicide. And other friend attempted suicide, but he survived. So, now, he said, I was also very distressed.
But I said, this is terrible. None of the players committed suicide, by the way. They are very serious about the game, but after they understand it’s a game.
So, he said, that’s when I felt that, this attachment to cricket is becoming toxic. It will take my life. That’s when I started exploring, then somehow he got a Bhagavad Gita, I started reading the Bhagavad Gita, and then he got a job in Canada, he came there, there he met devotees.
So, he said, now, I don’t feel any attachment to cricket at all. Okay, losers win, what’s the big deal? So, now, the focus has become much more on Krishna. So, now, the mental and spiritual, I don’t want to go to the exact difference, but like the emotional investment completely goes away.
Mental is more like the perspective changes. So, Krishna can work at any of these levels. So, when we pray to Krishna, and Krishna gives his mercy, he can remove the problem, he can remove the grip the problem has on our mind, or he can just remove the whole attachment, because of which we get caught in the problem.
Okay? Thank you. Any other questions? Maybe one or two questions, then we’ll stop. Yeah, where is the mic? Hare Krishna, Prabhu.
Thank you for this wonderful session. Prabhu, my question is that you just told us about a quadrant of pleasure and meaning. Prabhu, like we have bad habits, so, like, they come into our life Pleasure is there, but it has no meaning.
And the same good habits we have, like waking up early in the morning, doing puja, chanting, etc., during those times, there is a lot of meaning and pleasure. So, our bad habits, is there a way to make them good habits? And, why do we take bad habits so easily? Okay. Now, why is it that we succumb to bad habits earlier? It’s not necessarily true.
It may be, but it’s not necessarily true. The mind is basically like a programmed and programmable machine. It’s a device, it’s a machine.
It’s programmed, right now, in a particular way, and it is programmable. But, it is not just like, we can programme it for good, we can programme it for bad. You were there in the morning class, when I talked about Bollywood and Bhagavad Gita.
So, it’s like that. But then, it’s not just that simple. It is that, if we consider a floor.
Now, if water falls over here, if the floor is flat, then water won’t go anywhere, it will stay there only. But, if the floor is inclined, then what happens? As soon as water falls, it will start moving in the direction of the inclination. So, for us, our mental floor has certain inclinations to it.
And whatever is in that inclination, our thoughts, our desires, our behaviours, go in that direction rapidly. So, we live in the material world, and we live in a world where Rajasic and Tamasic pleasures are advertised a lot. And Sattvic activities are also talked about, but they are not that aggressively advertised.
Now, you won’t say, we will see ads about buying this and eating this. You don’t see ads about meditation and prayer. It is there, it is not there, but it is not promoted that much.
So, because of all this, because of the kind of environment we live in, our mind is inclined in a particular direction. And that’s why activities that are associated with that inclination, they are caught by our mind faster. We go in that direction faster.
But, fortunately, this inclination of the mind, it can be changed. If this is a negative side, we can bring it to a positive. It takes time.
It just requires repetition. So, during the intermediate period, we need to find something, say for example, what is good for us and what feels good for us. That means, what is good is, what you can say, is meaningful.
What feels good is, what is pleasurable, what is enjoyable. So, if we are finding that developing some habit, it takes time, although there is pleasure and meaning both, still it is not happening. That may be because right now, we are not able to experience that pleasure so much.
Because our mind is conditioned in a particular way. Krishna says that, that’s something which tastes like poison in the beginning. They will taste like nectar in the end, but initially it will taste like poison.
It’s pleasurable, but the pleasure doesn’t come as immediately. For example, maybe hearing kirtans, that’s enjoyable. It’s satisfying.
Maybe hearing Bollywood songs is also enjoyable. But depending on what we are habituated to, both are music, but one kind of music, our mind may immediately get attracted to. Now, we may also like kirtans.
It’s not that we don’t like them, but it requires some effort to get our mind used to it. So, that’s why it’s good if we can understand that here there is pleasure. Intelligence is required that I have to push through this poison till I get to the nectar.
And if we have association, then pushing through that becomes easier. If we see everybody is doing something positive, then it becomes easier to do that. Okay? Thank you.
Where’s the mic? So, once you were talking about that how only the mind is not the only reality. So, how can we understand these verses like we hear in the 11th verse Davanti Brahma’s relation that the only thing is mind because of which we are experiencing all types of suffering. Well, in scripture different things are spoken according to context.
So, in a particular context, a particular thing may be emphasised and that is true, but that may not be the that may not be the only truth at all times. For example, that at particular times we say that chanting is the Yuga Dharma. Just chant and all perfection will come.
That is true. But then in other places we say association is the most important thing. When we have association naturally in association chanting will also be done.
Some other places it may say that actually if you don’t study Shastra then you won’t have the buddhi. Without buddhi we will not be able to choose association, we will not be able to do chanting. Now, which is important? If you go to Vrindavan, Vrindavan is the greatest of all dhams.
You go to Mayapur, Mayapur dham, Mahatma says Mayapur is the greatest of all dhams. If you read about Kashi, Kashi is the greatest of all dhams. So, the point is in scripture there is this principle generally speaking.
When one point is emphasised, that point is emphasised almost exclusively. But if that were the only teaching then why have any other verses at all? Why not have this as the conclusion of every scripture or every past time? The mind is the only reality. And Manah Paramkarama Mananti, what does that mean? If you look, this is the broader scriptural context, but we look at that particular past time also.
There is before that Brahmana is in a prosperous situation and from the position of being very respected he starts becoming disrespected and humiliated and still he is able to tolerate it. So, that shows the power of the mind. But does that mean that there is no difference between the previous situation and this situation? Why does Krishna tell Arjuna to fight a war? Krishna could have said, you know the Kauravas are torturing, Kauravas are doing anyaya.
The whole concept of anyaya is just a play of the mind. Isn’t it? Krishna doesn’t say that. There is an objective reality.
So there is, Krishna says, I come to establish Dharma. Why does Krishna have to come to establish Dharma? Dharma and Adharma, everything is just a play of the mind. Is it? No.
So, yes, the mind does play a very important reality. And there are times when we may not be able to do anything at all. Except adjust our mind so that we can make peace with the reality.
But there are times when we can and should make a change even at the physical level. So, when the Pandavas were exiled in the forest, at that time, they accepted. This is the term they accepted as exile.
When Lord Ram had to go to the forest, he accepted that. He accepted it gracefully, graciously. But, when Sita was abducted, Ram said, it’s all, Sita is with me, Sita is with Ravan, it’s all just a play of the mind.
No. He is the husband, it is his duty to protect his wife. And Ravan is a demon.
What he would do if that curse had not been there would be horrifying. So, there is, there are other levels of reality also. Okay? Yes, bro, last question.
Last, yesterday I asked that level of forgiveness you were telling, you can ask in the class, but how to forgive the people when they do some atrocities at different levels or so, what were your thoughts as a devotee? Okay, I’ll answer this briefly and we can, if it doesn’t get answered, we’ll talk about it tomorrow more. See, forgiveness, to forgive or not. There are three, in general, Mahabharata has a lot of discussion about this.
See, whenever there is any wrong, any wrongdoing is there, I’m just using the word wrongdoing, I’m not using the word sin or crime. Sin is more moral, crime is more legal. It’s just wrongdoing.
So, there are three stakeholders. What are the stakeholders? Stakeholders means people who are involved in it. The stakeholders are the victim, the victimiser and the society or you could say people in general.
What do I mean? Say, if one person robs someone. So, now there is a robber, there is a robbed and there is people in general. Now, people in general, they may become victims.
If that robber runs free, other people may get robbed or if that robber goes away free, other people may themselves choose to become robbers. Isn’t it? So, when we consider what am I to do when some wrong is being done? So, these three stakeholders have to be considered. The victim, the victimiser and people in general.
Now, based on that, what is the situation? The victim may choose to forgive and that is good for the victim’s perspective. But, from the victimiser’s perspective, is forgiveness going to lead to a change of heart from that person or not? That has to be considered. So, for the victim, there has to be generally some kind of reparation.
Reparation means compensation. If somebody has been robbed, just forgive. But he robbed 10 lakh rupees from you, just forgive it.
I will forgive but he has to return the money. Isn’t it? So, if some wrong has to be done, has been done, there has to be some preparation. Now, preparation could be in different ways.
Some people may say that, oh, he is a member of my family only so, we will deal with it. We don’t want to go to the law. But, reparation has to be there for the victim.
For the victimiser, at the very least, there has to be restriction. That means, you cannot do this again. Now, the best is, not just restriction, there is reformation.
That, the person changes. Not only stops doing the wrong thing, but starts doing the right thing. Now, we can’t really force people to get reformed.
In jails, people cannot necessarily be reformed. Sometimes people can be reformed. But at the very least, there has to be restriction.
If somebody has a gun and they have misused the gun to kill an innocent person, we say, okay, we forgive you. And the person takes the gun and shoots somebody else again. At the very least, restriction has to be there.
Restriction means, maybe, okay, we are not going to punish you, but you are not going to have the gun again. At least, till you show some sign of change. When Kamsa killed the first six children of Vasudev and Devaki, and the eighth child turned out to be, apparently a princess, a female who turned out to be Durga, the goddess.
So, at that time, Kamsa used to worship Durga. He thought, Durga has come from Devaki. Devaki must be a very special woman.
He sought forgiveness from her. And amazingly enough, Vasudev and Devaki forgave him. But that forgiveness did not mean they trusted him.
Actually, you know, our eighth child, not that girl. I sneakily took him and I kept him in Vrindavan. He didn’t tell him that.
Why? Okay, I may punish him, but there is forgiving. Forgiving is not the same as trusting. Forgiving is for the past.
Okay, what you have done, I am not going to hold it against you. But trusting is for the future. And trust needs to be earned.
So, there has to be restriction in the sense that you cannot make the same mistake again. But then you have to earn. Now, for people in general, people in general at the very least, or you cannot say at the very least, there has to be protection so that they are not victimised.
That’s why, okay, this person may not attack the same person again. Oh, I came to know that you are very powerful, you know. If I attack you, you will get in trouble.
But, you know, that person is foolish. That person is powerless. I will attack that person.
There has to be protection so that people are protected. And also, there has to be regulation that they don’t see. Oh, you know, people can get away with crime.
I will also start doing crime. Justice should not just be done. It should be seen to be done.
So, regulation has to be there. So, now, how exactly all these can be balanced? So, at individual level, somebody might forgive. But, if somebody… So, generally for Brahmanas, forgiveness is recommended.
But for Kshatriyas, justice is required. And one part of justice may be forgiving. But the police can’t say that, you know, you are a criminal, I forgive you.
Well, the police duty is to arrest and bring before a court and the court may decide. So, if the police adopt a default policy, all crime will be forgiven over it. What is going to happen is, the only thing will happen that the idea that it is a crime will be forgotten.
And everybody will start doing crime. Actually, in California, they did this with disastrous results. During the pandemic, they decided that, you know, people are starving, people are suffering.
So, if anybody goes to any supermarket and robs below $750, shoplifting below $750, they will not be punished. And now, you know, people will take food or something like that. People are very intelligent.
They will take some Louis Vuitton purses of $700. They will take a phone which is just $749. And then they will sell it on eBay and make money out of it.
So, now, if the government starts making forgiveness as a policy, then it will lead to disaster in society. Isn’t it? So, that is what Krishna is telling Arjuna. Arjuna, as an individual, you may choose to forgive the Kauravas.
But you are not just an individual. You, as a Kshatriya, are a state leader. And your actions are going to affect everyone else also.
Therefore, forgiveness is a very important principle. And in many relations, in our normal day-to-day interactions, it is always good to forgive. Because sometimes I make a mistake, sometimes you make a mistake.
And it is good to forgive. But, when somebody is playing an administrative role, then they have to consider the bigger picture. In a family, you know, my brother says something to me, I say something to my brother, husband says something to wife, wife does something to the husband.
Those things, try to forgive. But, if you are talking about a bigger administration, then multiple factors need to be considered before a decision is to be made. Okay? Thank you very much.
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