Love is the Ultimate Reality – Prerana Class at Radha Gopinath Temple

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Krishna to this special evening programme once a month, Prerana Festival. We are very glad and we are very honoured to have with us one of the best speakers on this very amazing and attractive topic.
Love the ultimate reality. So, we have with us His Grace, Chaitanya Charan Prabhu. Haribol! Haribol! Haribol! Haribol! So, for a few people whom I am seeing are not acquainted with Chaitanya Charan Prabhu, I would like to introduce him.
He is a full-time monk, a brahmachari and spiritual preacher in the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. He has done his electronics and telecommunication engineering from the Government College of Engineering, Pune. After that he has served as a software engineer in Patni Computer Systems.
During that time, he was also trying to go for studies abroad. So, for the GRE exam, which is the qualifying exam to go abroad, he bagged the top rank in Maharashtra with a score of 2350 out of 2400. So, he scored the first rank in that exam.
At that time, he was also seeing the conditions of depression, stress, addiction and general misdirection amongst the youth of India. At that time, he decided to bridge the gap between the scientific worldview and the spirituality-based worldview which is presented in the scriptures. And then he has decided to offer himself as a teacher for the benefit of all of us here.
He is one of the editors of the magazine, Back to Godhead, which is the official magazine of ISKCON. He is a member of ISKCON’s Shastric Advisory Council. So, this is a special body of devotees who are experts in scriptures and they offer guidance from scriptures to the Governing Body Commission of ISKCON.
He has conducted seminars on the relevance of spiritual wisdom for contemporary times at different educational institutes like IITs and NITs and also at MNCs like Tech Mahindra. He has presented papers on the interface of science and spirituality as an invited delegate at national and international conferences including the World Peace Conference 2006 and the World Peace Congress 2008 organised under the UNESCO chair. His writings have been published in different newspapers like Times of India, in the prestigious The Speaking Free column, Indian Express, Economic Times, Hindustan Times and Sakal Times.
His writings in English have been translated into several foreign languages including German, Chinese and Romanian and of course a lot of Indian languages like Kannada, Telugu, Bengal, Bengali, Hindi and Marathi. If you want to read his articles, there are around 500 articles available on this website which I’ll tell you just now, thespiritualscientist.com one word, www.thespiritualscientist.com and is the author of eight books and all these books are available in the Matchless Gift Store downstairs. So if you really like this class, head for the Matchless Gift Shop downstairs and you can purchase one of these books to carry home with you.
So it gives me great pleasure to welcome His Grace Chaitanya Charan Prabhu. Let us welcome him in our traditional way by loudly chanting three times, Haribo! Haribo! Haribo! Just a small mention, Prabhuji’s father is also here with us. So he has come all the way from Nasik, I believe.
Yes, Chaitanya Chaitanya Nasik. So, we’ll welcome him also to our programme here by loudly chanting three times, Haribo! Haribo! Haribo! I’ll request Chaitanya Charan Prabhu to begin his presentation. Krishna.
I welcome all of you to this evening’s prerana programme. The topic as was mentioned by His Grace Nandulal Prabhu is Love is the ultimate reality. So, PowerPoint is just getting set up.
So basically, I’ll be speaking on four points based on an acronym related with love. So before I start that, ultimately, the deepest anchoring, the greatest hunger, the innermost need of every one of us is love. We all want to love and to be loved.
Ultimately, people can live without food for a few days. People can live without water for a few hours. Maybe we can live without air for a few seconds or a few minutes.
These are necessities. These have survival value. So, food, water, air have survival value.
But, they don’t bring value to survival. What brings value to survival is love. It is only when we have loving reciprocal relationships with others that that brings meaning, value, purpose and joy to our life.
So, all the other necessities are important, but love is our greatest necessity. And the ultimate purpose of life is to fulfil this innermost necessity of the heart. So, this is what we are going to discuss, L-O-V-E.
Liberty, opportunity, variety and experience. So, liberty is not the freedom for, but the freedom from. Freedom is one of the most touted words in today’s media.
And the whole idea is I should be free to do whatever I want. I should be free to purchase the cell phone that I want, to get the car that I want, to go and travel wherever I like, to marry the kind of spouse that I want. So, we are indoctrinated into believing that freedom means freedom for.
Freedom to or freedom for? Freedom to do this. Freedom for getting that. Now, that is the idea of freedom.
However, this is only one side of freedom. The more we become free for something, actually, it is not necessary that we become free from something. What does it mean, freedom from? Freedom from means freedom from selfishness, freedom from arrogance, freedom from anger.
These are actually the freedoms that will bring real happiness in our lives. In the 1930s, when the cigarette producers found that their market had reached more or less a saturation. They found that now all the male people who can smoke have started smoking.
And we can’t get any more people to smoke. At that time, the harmful effects of smoking were not known. So, they thought, where will we expand our market? And then one of them got a brain wave, 50% of humanity is not yet exploited.
He said, women are not smoking. So, during the 19… So, in the 1929 Independence Day parade, celebrated parade that happens in New York, Washington and other places. So, at that time, they got several female icons to, at the most strategic point in the march, flip out cigarettes from their pockets and start smoking.
And they had made special slim cigarettes just for the sake of women. And these cigarettes were portrayed and marketed as torches of freedom. Now, because it was done in such a dramatic way and so many popular icons were behind this and the whole psychology of women at that time, yes, we have been exploited, we have been suppressed, we have to break free.
And society tells us, don’t smoke. By smoking, we will be lighting the torches of freedom. And within 25 years, actually, the number of smokers among females became as much as males.
And then after that, the effects on pregnancy, the effects on the capacity to become pregnant, the effects on the capacity to secrete milk post-pregnancy, all that adverse effects that came from smoking became known. And then after that, slowly, the habits started decreasing. Of course, now again, it may have started increasing.
But the point is, freedom is a word that can be used for exploiting people in many ways. And that is what has happened repeatedly in history. So, the idea of freedom is freedom to I want to do this, I want to do that.
But this freedom actually makes us slaves to our own lowest passions and impulses. The more people become free to say, I want to purchase this gadget, I want to play this game, I want to do this, I want to do that. The more we strive for that freedom, actually what happens is we become bound by our desires.
We become bound. Whenever I want, I will eat. Whenever I want, I will watch TV.
Whenever I want, I will surf on the net. Now, in and of themselves, these activities are not harmful. Always.
But, when we give in to our minds in the name of freedom, then these activities start pulling us, and even when we don’t want to do them, we are impelled towards them. So, we may be students and we want to study, but then the mind says, I want to eat this, I want to see this, I want to do that. And, actually, we become more bound in the name of freedom.
So, the Vedic scriptures say that actually, if we want to love, before we can love, we need to become free from our lower passions. In modern society, people think freedom means the freedom for sex. That’s one of the greatest freedoms that is talked about.
And I think there are all these old-fashioned religious taboos, because of which we are not free to enjoy. But we want to become free for enjoying. However, this freedom makes people more and more bound to their lowest impulses, to gross animalistic lust.
When people think I have to be free for fulfilling my lusty desires, then, actually, sex, the Bhagavad Gita describes, is a sacred activity meant to bring godly souls into this world. But that glamorisation of sex leads to the devaluation of sex. The more people glamorise sex, sex is seen just as a bodily activity.
And the more it is seen as a bodily activity, it becomes reduced to the secretion, excretion, and reception of chemicals. So, it just becomes a chemical affair. Maybe a biochemical affair.
So, actually, sex is so much talked about, but the end result of that is it’s highly devalued. And devalued in the sense that people are neither satisfied in terms of their gross lower desires, nor do they develop fulfilling relationships. So, let us see, America is the land which has exported to the world this notion of freedom.
So, freedom means freedom for. So, let us look at what has been the consequences in America of this freedom for culture. So, this is a book written by a sociologist, David Myers.
It is called The American Paradox. Spiritual Hunger in an Age of Plenty. Basically, he compares the sociological statistics of America in 1950s, just after the Second World War, and around 2000, 2004-2005, that was the time when the book was written for the first time.
So, he gives parameters. Since 1916, the divorce rate has doubled. The teen suicide rate has tripled.
The recorded violent crime rate has quadrupled. The prison population has pentupled. The percentage of babies born out of marriage has sextupled.
Sextupled means six times. And depression has and depression has soared to ten times the pre-World War II level. So, this is not just a matter of religious belief or moral dogma that this is good and this is bad.
Here are objective statistics which indicate that society has alarmingly degraded. So, where did things go wrong? In the name of freedom for, what actually happened? What happened is in the name of freedom for, if we just give in to our lower desires, then we lose the capacity to make commitments and to develop satisfying deep relationships. And that is why, in my book, Science and Spirituality, I mention about how the Harvard Medical Journal conducted a survey of college teenagers in America.
And these are the individuals who live the kind of life that is portrayed on Star TV, in, say, Santa Barbara, Baywatch, or that sort of things. And Indians think, this is the way to live. So, when these young boys and girls were interviewed, psychologists found that these young boys and girls were haunted by feelings of loneliness and guilt.
Loneliness, because they used to have physical contact with many people, but they did not have any deep relationship with anyone. And guilt was not a religious hangover. The guilt was, even if they did not have any religious sensibilities, the guilt was that, I am using others.
I am using others for my own gratification, and I also know that others are using me. Therefore, these people were haunted by loneliness and guilt. So, actually, they were not happy.
So, this idea of freedom for doesn’t lead to happiness. It leads only to destruction. So, materialism promises us the freedom for, but that is not the way to happiness.
And another way that freedom is promised to us, especially in our current times, is through science and technology. Through science and technology, we can just press a button and call and connect with anybody, anywhere in the world. We just press another button and summon any information from any part of the world through the net.
So, technology certainly has its wizardry. But at the same time, what has been the end result of technology? Unfortunately, technology is highly misused for catering to the selfish instincts of humanity. And sometimes, from a superficial point of view, life seems to have become much more comfortable.
But, let us again look at the testimony of statistics. So, it is sometimes, okay, now we don’t have enough technology, so we are not free for. Can science make us free for? See, according to the World Watch Institute, the 20th century was the most violent century in known human history.
Three times more people died in wars in the 20th century than in the entire history of warfare between 1801 to 1899. So, what to speak of freedom for enjoyment? Millions of people lost the freedom for life itself. So, now, this is just a story.
So, these are statistics, very sobering. This 1 million, 15 million people were killed in the First World War, 9 million Russians in the war. These are all in the last century.
The Stalin’s regime, 20 million people were killed. Now, we are just looking at this tested million. Every one of these millions of people is an individual with dreams and families and ambitions like humanity.
So, Second World War, 55 million. Chinese Civil War, 2.5 million. In Mao Zedong’s rule, 40 million people were killed.
In the Congo Free State, 8 million. Mexico, 1 million. Turkish massacres of Armenians, 1.5 million.
China during the Nationalist era, 3.1 million. Korean War, 2.8 million. North Korea, 2 million.
Rwanda and Burundi, 1.35 million. Indochina War, 3.5 million. Nigeria, 1 million.
Bangladesh, 1.25 million. Cambodia, 1.65 million. Mozambique, 1 million.
Afghanistan, 1.8 million. Iran-Iraq War, 1 million. Sudan, 1.9 million.
Congo, 3.8 million. Millions and millions of people have been killed. So, actually speaking, the media gives us a very misleading picture of reality.
We get only to see the rosy side of reality and the actual human suffering, even if it is occasionally displayed, that is downplayed. That is downplayed. So, certainly, what to speak of becoming free to be happy, many people have lost their freedom to even live.
And certainly, we don’t say that science is responsible for this. Ultimately, it is humans who have killed other humans. But science has facilitated it.
Because we had more technology than ever before. And the important point is the most fearsome weapon of the last century, the atom bomb, was used only twice. Now we have far greater weapons available, far worse weapons available.
Therefore, in fact, if we give people freedom for, if that’s the people’s idea of freedom, then technology provides so much facility for misuse of the freedom. So, if people have guns, then they can just use the guns for whatever they want. So, freedom for, without a counterbalancing freedom from, unless there is a freedom from selfishness, unless there is a freedom from arrogance, unless there is a freedom from short-temperedness, freedom for can break destruction and havoc in human society.
So, the Vedic scriptures tell us that love can be truly developed only when we become free from our lower passions. Now, in the media there is a huge UN cry about the discovery of the god particle. Now, what the world needs is not the discovery of the god particle in the atom, but the godly particle in the heart.
What is the godly particle in the heart? That is the Atma. The Atma is actually radiant with love. Certainly, scientists have worked hard and they have strived for years and they have found the god particle.
But the discovery of any particle, whatever it may be called, is it going to actually change anything for humanity in terms of human nature or human culture or human behaviour? It may actually provide more technological gadgetry. And if humans are not changed, then that technology will lead to greater destruction. So, more important in discovering the god particle within the atom is the discovery of the godly particle in the heart.
The Atma is a part of God. In the 15th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, 7th verse, Lord Krishna describes that the soul is my part, is eternally my part. And all the divine qualities of God are present within the soul in a minute quantity.
So, to the extent we can bring out this godliness of the soul, to the extent we can be happy and we can help in making others happy within the heart. So, this requires a freedom from, as long as we are not free from arrogance, from selfishness, from short-sightedness, short-temperedness, till that time the soul remains covered. And till that time, neither can we experience real happiness nor can we share real happiness with others.
So now, opportunity to love the eternal is rare. Certainly, love is our innermost anchoring. And where do we direct our love? If we direct it towards the temporary, we suffer.
Because the temporary is destroyed over a period of time. So, why should we choose to love the eternal? Because when we love the temporary, our love leads to frustration in one of three ways. So, to understand how love for the temporary leads to frustration, here’s an acronym, FIT.
FIT is futility, insubstantiality, temporality. So, when we try to seek pleasure through loving any temporary object, then there are three possibilities. First is that we don’t get that object.
So, suppose we imagine, let’s say, today after the prerna, there is ice cream for everyone. Then we start thinking, whether it’s ice cream, ice cream, ice cream. So, we think ice cream, the mind says ice cream.
Ice cream, give me, give me. So, we’re thinking about it, craving, craving, craving. And then, when we go for the menu, we find it was just a rumour.
So, what happened is, all that we got for our anchoring was just the dissatisfaction, just the craving. Sometimes we imagine that we’ll get some enjoyment, we anchor for it and if it is not there, only we get frustrated. So, like that, a boy sees a girl and he thinks, I will love this girl.
He dreams, you know, I’ll go and propose to her and then we will have nightingales singing all around us and all his dreams start coming. And the boy goes and proposes and he slaps the door. Then, what happens is, the balloon, it bursts in one moment, the balloon of fantasy.
So, that is futility. So, one option is that we seek some enjoyment but it doesn’t come. The other possibility is that we seek an enjoyment, we get it, but it doesn’t live up to our expectations.
Say, we expect some delicacy to come up and then we go for the feast and we find that delicacy is there. Say, there is a delicious sweet and we are waiting for the sweet and the sweet is served and then when we start eating it, we find that the cook has made a mess of the sweet. So then, the enjoyment, as far as the source is concerned, is available to us, but it’s not substantial, it doesn’t last.
Or, even if it lasts, then, how much can we eat? We eat a little bit and after that, our stomach’s capacity is limited. So, insubstantiality means it doesn’t live up to our expectations. Or, for that matter, suppose a boy decides to form a relationship with a girl and then he proposes to her and she smiles and accepts and then his heart starts fluttering like a butterfly.
Then, the relationship develops. Actually, actually, as it is said, love is blind, but marriage is an eye-opener. So, what happens is that we create such a tower of expectation from the person whom we love.
We think, oh, this person will be like this and like that and nobody can live inside that tower. It’s not necessarily the fault of that person and everybody has faults. But, even if a person were not having faults, nobody can actually live up to the expectation of any other person.
Why? Because ultimately, all of us have loved Krishna in the spiritual world. Krishna is filled with all six opulences. And after having tasted love for Krishna, now we are trying to find a substitute for Krishna.
And, nobody can be a substitute for Krishna. Some people may have some opulences temporary, maybe a beauty for a few years, wealth for a few decades, intelligence for some more time, whatever. But, nobody can have opulences like Krishna.
That’s why, in the first case, there is a balloon of imagination that is built and the balloon is pricked in one moment. In the second case, the balloon is deflated gradually. So, actually, when the enjoyment comes, the enjoyment is an anti-climax.
It’s insubstantial. It doesn’t live up to the expectations. And we see this in the western culture that people have love marriages and as you saw, most of the marriages often end in divorce.
Now, what is the main cause of divorce? There can be different causes, but one of the main causes is people find that marriage is not compatible. Whatever the reason. So, ultimately, we cannot have compatibility between two souls.
The only compatibility is between the soul and Krishna. What we can have between two souls is minimum incompatibility. We can’t have compatibility.
So, at best, there is insubstantiality. And somehow, somebody says, okay, I get the enjoyment and the enjoyment is also very wonderful. So, I get the food and the food is also cooked very nicely.
And then I eat it to my heart’s content. The stomach says it’s enough, but no, the mind says I want more and more and more. But ultimately, how much can we eat? The body’s capacity to enjoy is temporary.
Similarly, with respect to material pleasures like sex, the body’s capacity is temporary. Even if everything else works out, the body’s capacity to enjoy is limited. And nothing can extend that apart.
Even if there is not just a bodily relationship, there is a satisfying emotional relationship. Even that is temporary because our brain eyes are temporary. In fact, to the extent we get a satisfying relationship in this world, to that extent we experience frustration when that relationship is lost.
So now, think about it, when we seek enjoyment through loving any of the objects of this world, there are only three possibilities. We don’t get the object, we get the object, but it doesn’t live up to the expectations. We get the object, it lives up to the expectations, but then time takes it away.
So therefore, by loving the temporary, we are simply paving the path for our own frustration. And that’s why the Vedic scriptures tell us, not just the Vedic scriptures, all the world’s great religions tell us that we need to redirect our love from the temporary to the eternal. And an important part of redirecting our love to the eternal is realising our own eternal identity.
So now, what does it mean to love the eternal? It is not just some sentimental stuff, I love God. Actually, the Vedic scriptures describe it in a very profound and systematic way that is akin to the mythology of science. Just like in science, we have theory and experiment.
Theory proposes that every particle of matter attracts every other particle of matter, by a force that is directly proportional to their masses, inversely proportional to the square of their distance. This is theory. Then there is an experiment, and by the experiment we can measure it.
Similarly, in spirituality, there is a counterpart of theory, that is philosophy. So the philosophy tells us that you are not the body, you are the soul. यहिन्योस्मिन्यथादे काउमारं यवनंजरो Inside the body there is a soul.
And, similarly, there is the Supreme Lord, who is the object of our love. वोमामेवःसंमुदव् ज्ञानातिपुरुषोत्तम सर्वविद्धजितिमाम सर्वभावेन महारता Krishna says that when one understands that I am the supreme person, then that person will love me with all his heart. So that is the philosophy.
Philosophy gives systematic, logical explanations for the observable realities that we see in the world. And then, this is in one sense, theoretical. But it is not just to be accepted only on a point.
There is a way to verify it. And religion is the means to verify it. So, religion offers us practical activities by which we can experientially verify the truths of philosophy.
For example, if the scripture says that the philosophy tells us that I am not the body I am the soul, then how do we verify that? Actually, the philosophy also tells me that because I am the soul, I will experience real happiness at the spiritual level. And at the spiritual level, when I connect with God, then my own real godly nature will be revealed and I will experience real happiness. The religion offers us methods and techniques for realising this.
So, when we chant the holy names of Krishna, many people may just come and chant because I like it. It’s good. Anyway they are chanting, that’s good.
But actually speaking, there is a much greater depth to what is happening. Just like some child is throwing balls at a wall and catching it, just playing catch-catch. And now he is just doing it in a casual way.
Now if somebody is a physicist, a scientist, he wants to see how thick the wall is there. He is throwing the same ball and he is catching the same ball. He is observing.
When it is hit over here, it rebounds very fast. When it hits over here, it rebounds slowly. When it hits over here, it just gets suckering.
Basically, although the activity that is done is the same, the awareness of the person makes a lot of difference. So, when a physicist is observing simple ball catching, he is actually observing from the point of view of the physics behind it, the mechanics behind it and he is realising deeper principles. Similarly, if we study the philosophy, when we come and chant and dance and sing and bow before the deities, then we will be observing.
The philosophy said that if I chant and sing, I will experience happiness. I am experiencing happiness. That means, in this philosophy, there is a realistic possibility that it is right.
So, when we have philosophy, then we can meaningfully analyse what we are doing in nature. And when both these are balanced together in a harmonious way, then spirituality becomes the science for inner transformation. Science is a science, material science, is actually concerned only with external transformation.
Science can make things better. Spirituality alone can make people better. Science cannot do anything to make anyone better.
This is not again to anyway criticise science. It is just to recognise that it has its limitations. To say that the president of America is not the president of the world is not an insult to the president of America.
So, to similarly say that there are things which are beyond the jurisdiction of science is not being anti-scientific. It is just stating the objective reality which many people don’t recognise and which few people take the courage to speak. So, practically everyone recognises that anger is undesirable.
But does science have any method to cure anger? I am getting a short temper. Take this pill down. There is no pill like that.
The only pill is that take a pill for sleeping. And when you wake up, all the anger comes back. So, actually there is nothing that can be done.
The whole field of emotions is practically untouched by science. The whole of medical science is meant to cure pain. But in all of medical science there is no pain metre.
There is no way to measure pain. When somebody has got a fracture, the x-ray or the CT scan or the PET or whatever we do, that may reveal how much is the extent of the fracture. But that cannot tell how much is the pain that is experienced.
So, modern material science doesn’t even address our emotions. Even if there is the best brain scientist in the world, craniologist, he does the toughest surgeries in the world. He comes back home and he finds his wife is upset.
He thinks, let me do a brain scan to find why she is upset. Obviously not. Because there is a different approach to understand a person’s subjective emotions.
So, what can transform a person’s emotions and bring about an inner metamorphosis is spirituality. Vishwaprabhupada explains that these two, both limbs are important, philosophy and religion. If there is only philosophy without religion, then it is mental speculation.
Mental speculation means people just think, maybe God exists. So, the person is sitting on a Sunday afternoon surfing the net or looking at the TV. Maybe God exists.
And then he looks again and he says, oh, it’s a big disaster. Oh, no. Maybe God doesn’t exist.
But anyway, there is this bottle of wine in front of me. The pleasure in the wine exists. So, if there is no practise, if there is no application in one’s life, then philosophy just remains mental.
And it doesn’t lead to any transformation. So, philosophy without practise, without religion is at best theoretical, at worst hypocritical. Now, on the other hand, if there is only religion without philosophy, then that can become sentimentalism at best or fanaticism at least.
Why fanaticism? My way is the only way. If you don’t follow my way, you are going to go to hell. And I will help you get there faster.
So, this is fanaticism. And that comes because people don’t understand the philosophy. Anybody can do any word jugglery.
But just plain word jugglery is not philosophy. Philosophy comes from the word feeling, so forth. So forth means truth and feeling is love.
Philosopher is a lover of truth. So, just word jugglery is not philosophy. Now, when both of these come together, then it leads to transformation.
So, the world’s great religions are facilities for us to redirect our love from the temporary to the eternal. From matter to Krishna. From the things of this world to the source of the things of this world, that is God.
So, this happens in two parts. It’s like a university in the sense that university is a place where we get knowledge. So, we get knowledge through the great wisdom traditions of the world.
There is a reality beyond the visible reality that we see. And we also need to transform ourselves. We need to improve ourselves.
We need to cure ourselves. So, in that sense, the great religious traditions are like a hospital. Actually, they transform our hearts.
Now, when this purpose of the religions is forgotten. Actually, I have to love the eternal. And a person starts thinking using the religion as a means to continue loving the temporary and enjoying the temporary.
And religion gets abused. So, there are so many people who have conflicts trying to convert one person from this religion to another religion. Objectively speaking, what is that like? There is one sick person who is in a hospital and he is getting treatment, getting cured.
But somebody says, my hospital is the only hospital. So, I go into that hospital, smash all the doctors, pull the patient out of there and make him admitted in my hospital. It’s stupidity.
And in the process of trying to fight and get people from other hospital to my hospital, I stop taking my treatment also. So, actually speaking, in another way to look at it, we all have to climb upwards in our consciousness. We have to climb upwards in our consciousness.
And the summit of reality is God. And different religions are like different paths to climb up that mountain. So, somebody who just keeps going round and round at the bottom of the mountain to pull other people from that path to his path, where is he going to climb that path up? His own path up, isn’t it? So, at a gross level, Sri Prabhupada was not interested in converting people.
When Sri Prabhupada went to America and Europe, many Christians would ask him, Swami, what is your opinion about Jesus? Prabhupada says, Jesus is our Guru. He gave his life for God. He gave his life for God.
No ordinary person can do that. So, they said, does that mean that what you are teaching is the same as what he is teaching? Sri Radha Gopinath Bhagwan ki, Sri Gopalji ki, Jai Jai Gaurachand ki, Jai Jai Gaurachand ki, Of course. Then they said, then why have you come here? We are already teaching the message of Jesus.
Prabhupada said, no, we are not teaching the message of Jesus. Jesus taught, thou shalt not kill. And, first of all, those to whom he taught thou shalt not kill, they began by killing him only.
Isn’t it? And then, now millions of people are being killed in slaughterhouses. Millions of animals are being killed in slaughterhouses. Sri Prabhupada said, follow the principles of religion deeply.
When Sri Prabhupada was in Iran, at that time, he was talking with the local Muslims over there. And after the local people had gone, he was talking with the devotees. In the background, the call for the daily prayers came up.
And as they were chanting the daily prayers, the namaz they were doing, Sri Prabhupada closed his eyes and folded his hand and became absorbed. Became absorbed. And the devotees were really surprised.
And then after, he heard the full recitation of the prayers. And then after that, he opened his eyes. His eyes were bright.
Wasn’t that beautiful? The devotees were really taken aback. Sri Prabhupada, wouldn’t it be better if they were chanting Hare Krishna? Sri Prabhupada, they were almost hurt. Why are you making me sectarian? Why are you making me sectarian? We are glorifying God in their name and we are glorifying God in our name.
So, we appreciate it. Actually, this is a broad interpretation. That means, the ultimate purpose is to glorify God.
And if people are doing that in a proper, mature way, then that is to be encouraged. You know, actually, the purpose of religion is not to just convert people from one brand of illusion to another brand of illusion. That means, somebody is a Hindu who becomes a Christian.
What happens most of the time? The person is a Hindu materialist and he becomes a Christian materialist. That’s what happens. The purpose of religion is to transform people from being materialists to being spiritualists.
From being lovers of matter to lovers of God. So, actually, it’s only when people forget this purpose and they use religion as a tool to boost their false ego. You see, my religion is the greatest.
Why? Because I am the greatest. So then, religion becomes a source of violence. However, that is not the purpose of religion.
If you look at the all, this is a common misconception, especially in India, because India has seen an unfortunate history of communal unrest. People think religion is the cause of violence. But if you look at the history of the wars that I showed, how many of the wars were because of religion? None of those wars.
If you go back, the first world war, second world war, there was no religion in it. Stalin, Mao Zedong, they were completely atheistic. And most of the other wars, in Chinese nationalist era, the Korean war, religion was a non-issue in any of these.
But even if sometimes it is found that religion is an issue, actually speaking, the religion is not the issue, the ego is the motive, the issue. The desire for profit and power, which is masqueraded in a religious garb. That is the cause of violence.
So now, opportunity to love the eternal is rare. Even within the great religious traditions, it is not necessary that people will actually learn to love the eternal. That religion may just become a social club for just getting together for material purposes.
But only when there is proper philosophical education, and people understand what is the purpose of religion. And then we can redirect the love from matter to spirit. From the things of this world, to God.
Now, beyond this point, there is undeniable variety within the great religious traditions. Certainly the conflicts are because of selfishness and arrogance, but there is variety. And actually, this variety is an expression of Krishna’s accessibility.
Krishna makes himself available in various ways to people at various levels. That means, Bhakta Vinod Thakur says, if I go to a mosque or a church or any other place of worship, where the worship is happening in a way that I am not familiar with, then what is my reaction? He says, actually I feel inspired to see how my lord has manifested himself in this way to reach out to these people. I cannot understand this manifestation, and I cannot understand how the reciprocation is happening.
But I feel inspired, how compassionate is my lord when he is manifesting himself. And by seeing this mercifulness of the lord, my attraction to the manifestation of the lord whom I love increases. So when we see other people practising their religious practises diligently, we don’t have to feel insecure or hateful.
That could be very immature and incorrect. We feel inspired, let me also practise diligently. This variety expresses Krishna’s accessibility.
Krishna is extending himself to many people. So now, I talked about the variety within the various religious traditions. Now I will talk about the variety that is there within the Vedic tradition.
Now in the Bible, in the Old Testament, there is a story of the prodigal son. The story, most of you know it, I will just tell it briefly. There was a wealthy father and his son left him, saying that give me my inheritance and I want to go and enjoy.
The father said, don’t go. He said, no, no, I want to enjoy. And he went away and squandered all his wealth and he became a pauper and then he was serving some other landlord.
And as he was serving that landlord, he was suffering. The landlord told him, you feed this pig food to all these pigs and whatever remains, you eat it yourself. He was miserable and then he thought, maybe I should go back to my father.
He said, I rejected him and squandered his wealth. How can I go back? He said, oh my Christ, even if my father doesn’t accept me as his son, I will go back and be his servant. He will treat his servants better than this.
He decides to go back. And when he goes back, my father welcomes him with joy and he says, my father, this son who was lost and has come back, he is going to be the prince of the kingdom in the future. And this story is told to indicate how unconditional and selfless is the love of God, that he is ready to welcome us back, no matter how much we reject him.
So, this is overall agreeable with all the Buddhist traditions of the world, Buddhist and Buddhist traditions. However, the Vedic scriptures reveal that God’s love extends far beyond just welcoming the lost souls back. Krishna does much, much more than that.
So, one of the things that he does is demigod worship. Now, what is the meaning of demigod? The prefix is demi and semi. You know, you have the word circle and semicircle.
So, semicircle means half. So, demi and semi are prefixes which come from Greek and they mean partial. So, demigod means those personalities who have partially the powers of God.
So, these are personalities higher than us but they are not supreme. So, many people in India think, there are so many gods. You know, one, two, three, four, five, hundred, thousand.
How many are there? Some people have an idea, oh, all these gods are false. Others have an idea, all these gods are just one only. Actually, both of these are misconceptions.
There is a much deeper system in India. So, what is that system? This table might seem a little complex. Just think of the landlord who has, who is the prince or the king or the landlord whose son has gone away.
So, now what is happening? The prince is serving far outside his kingdom, some other exploitative master and he is being exploited. Now, the father would like his son to come back home immediately. But, if he goes and says, my dear son, please come back.
The son has quarrel with him. The son may or may not come back. So, what does the father do? The father sends a minister.
He says, oh, my dear minister, you go and persuade my son to come back to our kingdom. So, when the minister goes and he tells, how much are you being paid? What are you getting? I am paying you better. Why don’t you come to me? And then he says, I can’t come back.
Now, what has happened by the son coming to the service of the minister is that the son has come back within the kingdom of the father. Although he has not come back to the palace, the home of the father, he has come back within the kingdom of the father. So, indirectly within the kingdom of the father.
So, similarly, all the souls have rejected Krishna and come to this world. And Krishna comes himself also. But many times the souls just don’t care.
Krishna has his representatives, his ministers. They are the devatas. And he sends the devatas.
And people, okay, I want this thing. I want that thing. Whatever I want, I can get from the devatas.
And people start worshipping the devatas. Now, most people worship devatas for material things. now, Hanuman Ji is a servant of the Lord, but people worship Hanuman many times for material things.
So, there is a popular song, tum to ho brahmachari, mujhe de do ek nari. So, people worship devatas for getting something material. And, now, what has happened is when they start worshipping the devatas, they have come within Krishna’s care.
Because even the devatas are representatives of Krishna. So, they have come indirectly within Krishna’s care. And then over a period of time, what happens? This particular prince who is now serving the minister starts thinking, I am serving this minister.
Is this minister supreme? Does he also have a boss? He thinks that he has a boss. And then he starts going to that king. He says, can I serve you? How much will you pay me? He says, you are my son.
I will try to pay you. Come back to my house. He says, no, no, I don’t want to come back to your house.
How much will you pay me? What will you give me? Then he starts forming a relationship with the prince. At least now, he is directly employed in the king’s palace. And then over a period of time, he starts seeing, Oh, this king is so kind, so loving.
He is rejected. He is my own father. Let me serve him out of love.
And then he returns back to his family. So, this is the progression. Similarly, people worship devatas.
And as they worship the devatas, gradually they start thinking, I worship so many devatas, but these devatas, whenever they are in danger, they go to Vishnu. They go to Vishnu. Therefore, Vishnu must be supreme.
Then they start worshipping Vishnu. But they worship Vishnu for material things. But over a period of time, by this worship, they become purified.
And when they become purified, then they develop love for Vishnu. They develop love for the eternal, absolute truth, the ultimate reality. So, to just serve some other materialistic person is materialism.
And to serve the devatas is karmakand. And to serve the lord, but for material thing, that is sakamabhakti. Sakamabhakti is material worship, material devotion.
And then there is, it is not visible here, nishkamabhakti below that. When they serve the king out of love. So, now this is what is told by Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita.
He explains, these are very important verses, 7.20, 21, 22 and 23. So, Krishna tells over here first, Those who are intelligent and stolen by material desires, they worship other gods. And they follow the rules according to their ideas.
Okay, I like to worship this god, I like to worship this god. According to their nature, they follow certain worships. And Krishna says something very significant in the 21st verse, he says, Whichever form you desire to worship, yo yo yam yam tanum bhakta shraddhaya archutam ichti, whichever form you desire to worship, asya tasya achalam shraddham tam eva viddha dhamyaham I will make your shraddha strong in that devata.
See, when the father, when the king wants his son to come back, now the son has to develop faith in the minister, then he will come back within the kingdom. So, the minister has to show some power. I have this much wealth, I can give this much away.
This is my power. Whatever power you want to show, I will provide. Show it to him and get him.
So, Krishna says, I give the devatas the power by which the people become fixed in worshipping. So, Krishna says, I give the devatas the power and I give the people the faith by which they can worship the devatas. So, in the next verse he says, when people start worshipping the devatas with that faith, sataya shraddhaya yuktas tasyaradhanam itte labhate chittatah kamaan mayai vavihitaanitaan whatever they desire, they fulfil it.
But actually, I am giving it. When the minister gives some salary to the son, the prince, how is he getting it? He is getting it from the king. So, like that, whenever devatas give something, it is ultimately Krishna who is giving it to them.
And then somebody may say, okay, then I can just continue worshipping devatas. It is Krishna’s system only. No.
antavat tuphalam tesham tad bhavaty alpamedhasam Krishna says, antavat, this is temporary. Alpamedhasam means less intelligent. Why? You don’t understand that even the devatas are temporary.
They are not eternal. And he doesn’t have an eternal relationship the prince doesn’t have an intimate relationship with the king as he has with the minister. So, this is how the progression works.
So, now, there are many stories in the scripture. Vallabhacharya was actually a worshipper of both, a worshipper of Shiva also, occasional worshipper of Krishna also. So, at one time, he worshipped lord Shiva very intensely.
And then lord Shiva appeared in front of him. When lord Shiva appeared, what do you want? He was very surprised. He was also spiritually evolved.
He said, please give me that which is the most dear to you. So, lord Shiva had a bright smile and he gave him the beauty of lord Krishna. Right? This is my worship of the lord.
So, therefore, actually speaking, this is the process by which the devatas guide the individual to the supreme lord. Similarly, there is a story of Keshav Kashmiri was a great worshipper of Saraswati Devi. And by Saraswati Devi’s mercy, he was a world-defeating scholar.
And he met Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And he was defeated by him. He went to the island of Saraswati and besieged her.
What happened to your benediction? He said, and she came in a dream to him and he told him, what happened? He said, you had promised me that I would never be defeated by anyone in the world. He said, yes. But I was defeated today.
He said, the person who defeated you was not of this world. He said, actually, he is my ultimate lord. He is the lord of my lord.
My lord is Brahma. He is his lord. So, my ultimate blessing to you is come back and worship him and surrender to him.
And Keshav Kashmiri, with the blessings of Saraswati, went on and became a Vaishnavi. Similarly, there is a story of Chandidas. Chandidas was, as the name suggests, a worshipper of Chandi.
And his brother was a Vaishnavi. And as both of them used to live next to each other. Chandidas was quite wealthy.
His brother was impoverished. Chandidas has a flourishing garden. Many flowers.
So, one day his brother told him, can I just take one flower to worship my Shaligram Shila, my Vishnu deity. He said, nothing doing. All the flowers are meant only for Chandi.
His brother did not say anything. One day when he was returning after his early morning bath, he saw a beautiful flower. He thought in his mind, only I could offer one flower to the lord.
It needs to be nice. And he in this way performed Manas Puja. In his mind, he offered the flower to the lord.
And then Chandidas took the same flower and he offered it to Chandidevi. And as he was chanting the prayers to Chandidevi at that time, Chandidevi appeared in front. I am pleased with you.
What do you want? He said, I will ask what I want afterwards. But first tell me, I have been worshipping for so long. How is it that you can please eat me today? He said, today you gave me a Mahaprasada.
He said, what does that mean? Then she told him the whole story. Chandidas, you mean to say that worshipping Vishnu is better than worshipping you? He said, of course. He said, Vishnu is the supreme lord.
He is the lord of my lord also. He said, why did you tell me that? You never asked me that. You were just asking me, give me this, give me that.
So you were just asking me, give me this, give me that. You were never asking me. But today, you performed an extra service to me.
Today, you actually guided me. You gave me the Mahaprasada. Because you did this extra service, so I have blessed you with this extraordinary gift.
After that, Chandidas became such a great Vaishnava. He wrote amazing poems about lord Krishna. But he came to the name Chandidas because he considered Chandi to be his guru.
Guru who brought him to Krishna’s notice. So, we understand that all the devatas are in a cooperative master plan which is going to get all the people to Krishna gradually. And if we are worshipping a particular deity, we are rejecting them.
It is like the son who has been serving the minister started serving the father. The devatas will be pleased by that. And if we are confused about it, or if some other people are confused about it, we don’t have to get into an argument that it is you.
Can you speak? Tell that person, I am going to ask him to speak. Please, reveal to me what it is that you speak. And if we have a sincere desire, the truth will be revealed.
So, ultimately, we just see at an external level, this person is worshipping this devata, this person is worshipping this devata. It is all confusion and conflict also. But, love is the ultimate reality.
Love is the underlying reality that unifies it all. It is the love of Krishna that is manifesting through him, through his devotees, through the demigods. If we have this vision of love, then we can see the unification that underlies everything.
Without that vision of love, things will just appear confusing and contradictory sometimes. So, actually this Vedic system of multi-level worship, that means you can’t just worship the Supreme God, you can worship intermediaries also. Krishna expresses his concern for the individuality of the worship.
Not everybody is ready to worship the Supreme God. It is like the prince is not ready to come back home. So, can you have your desires? Fine.
I will accommodate your desires, your individuality. And then Krishna is flexible, flexible in making himself accessible. In the Abrahamic religions, they also are pathways to God.
Abrahamic religions means Judaism, Christianity, Islam. They are also talking about how we can return back to God. At the same time, the revelation of God’s glory is not as thorough and as detailed as it is in the Vedic tradition.
So, there they have the idea there is one true God and all other gods are false gods. And they say that if you want to worship the true God, you have to reject all the false gods. And that’s why we have so many generations of invaders coming to India and desecrating the temples of India.
Because their idea was we are worshipping the true God, what all of you are worshipping is false gods. But this is an incorrect dichotomy. It is not a false God.
There is true God, the Vedic culture understands there is true God and there are assistant gods. So, from the assistant God, one moves to the ultimately the highest God. So, Krishna’s love is revealed the ultimate God who is being talked about by all the traditions is one.
But that love is revealed differently at different times. So, in the Vedic tradition, the love is revealed in an unparalleled extraordinary way. So, the last point.
Experience is the ultimate harmoniser and verifier. How do we know who is the Supreme Lord? Who am I actually? Ultimately, it is experience by practise. When we hear the philosophy, we practise the religion then we get the experience within our heart.
Lord Krishna describes in the Bhagavad Gita in the 9th chapter 2nd verse Pratyaksha Vagamam Dharmyam Susukham Kartum Aumyayam Pratyaksha Vagamam is directly experienced in our heart and Susukham, it is like a joyfulness in our heart. So, material science is experimental spiritual science is experiential there is an experience within the heart. So, when we practise, we experience the transformation within the heart.
And it is also in its own way scientific. And in fact, this whole science is describing a very amazing way in the Vedic literature. It is described that how do we develop? We say that we have to develop love for God.
So, what does it mean to develop love for God? I just believe that there is some God and I am here and I just accept that He is God and everything is alright. There is the idea, sometimes people have this paraphrase of the Bhagavad Gita Jo Hua, Wo Achcha Hua Jo Ho Raha Hai, Wo Achcha Ho Raha Hai Jo Hone Wala Hai, Wo Bhi Achcha Hoga So, now I have read the Bhagavad Gita dozens of times there is no verse which comes anywhere near this. There is no verse which says like that.
And even if there were a verse which says like that that is not the essence of the message of the Gita. The essence of the message of the Gita is not Jo Ho Raha Hai It is Jo Tum Karne Wale Ho It is the whole purpose of the Bhagavad Gita is to guide Arjuna what he should do. It is true that ultimately whatever is happening by God’s will is for our good.
But we have to respond properly to experience good in our life. Otherwise, we will not experience the good. The whole purpose of the Bhagavad Gita is to help us develop love for God.
So, in the Bhagavad Gita there is a systematic process given and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and the Goswamis have elaborated on this. And it all talks about an inner transformation. So, these are nine stages which are talked about in Bhaktira Samrut Sindhu by Rupa Goswami.
Adau Shraddha starts with Veda. There may be some God Let me find out about it. Shraddha is basically favourable curiosity.
Let me go and find out. Then one comes in the association of devotees. Sadhu Sadhu.
And after that, one starts practising. Bajendri Kriya. Devotees tell us, please chant Hare Krishna.
We start chanting Hare Krishna. And then, when we start chanting Hare Krishna, we start experiencing the magic within. The lust, the anger, the greed, all those start just disappearing from the heart.
Anartha Nivrutti starts happening. Anartha Nivrutti. All the undesirable things start going away.
And then there is Nishtha. Nishtha means strong faith. Because this is something like the faith when I have experienced the transformation.
Shraddha means, say if I am sick, I go to a doctor. Other people have recommended doctor to me. So, I just go and maybe the doctor is good.
Let me find out. But then, if we take the treatment, if we do the Bhajani Kriya and we experience the cure, this is a complete cure. So, it’s like that.
When we start experiencing the transformation in our heart, then there is Nishtha. The faith becomes extremely strong. And there is Ujjhi.
Ujjhi is a far higher, positive taste for Krishna. Just as we have taste for material things right now, we develop a taste for Krishna. And that taste matures into our Siddhi.
And then there is Bha, which is spiritual emotions. And it all blossoms ultimately in prayer. It’s pure love for Krishna.
These are all very systematic stages. There are books like Madhuri Kadambini, which analyse and even describe it. When these are the experiences that we are having, these are the emotions that we are undergoing, and that means we are at this stage.
So, it’s not just a sentiment like, I love God. It’s a process by which we develop love for God. Actually, if we experience the process, if we practise the process, then we experience the magic within.
We experience remarkable transformations in our nature. So, one of the characteristics of science is that it is repeatable. If I drop a ball over here, it will fall on the ground.
If I drop it in America, it will fall on the ground. It’s repeatable. So, same way, people all over the world, wherever they have chanted Hare Krishna, they have experienced extraordinary happiness, unparalleled happiness.
So, I’ll conclude with one story, and then we can have questions and answers. Devotees are preaching all over the world. It’s one of the places where Krishna Consciousness is being very enthusiastically accepted in Russia.
So, in Russia, every year, there is a folk song festival on the banks of the Volga River. So, at this folk song festival, the devotees decided, we will go and we will present the folk song from India. That was the Hare Krishna Mahamantra.
So, and they had the event. So, the plan was, everybody had their small, sort of, pandal areas, and they could sing the folk song over there. So, the plan was, we’ll start by 6.30 or something like that, like we started the prerana today.
Then, by around 7.30, we’ll start the lecture. We’ll have a lecture for about 45 minutes, one hour, and then we’ll have a half an hour kirtan again. And then, as they started the programme, people were going from different exhibits, but they found the crowd started increasing in this exhibit, because in all the other places, you know, you were just spectators, but here you were participants.
Everywhere else, you just see other people singing, but here we sing and dance. And then, it became 7.15, 7.30, and these people didn’t know the culture that, about responsive singing. So, the devotees had put the Hare Krishna Mahamantra in Russian on top, and the singer stopped singing, but the people kept singing.
And, when the devotees saw that, they said, okay, let us have kirtan soon. Ultimately, the relishing of the holy name is the purpose of the philosophy. So then, the kirtan went on till 8 o’clock, 8.30, 9, 9.30, the devotees were singing, their throats became sore, the devotees were playing Mrudanga, their fingers were numb, but everybody was so happy.
It became 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock, 12 o’clock, 1 o’clock, at 1.30, the amplifier started giving smoke. Then, they decided that, now this is Krishna’s signal. They ended the kirtans, and then, the whole programme got wound up.
And then, the devotees, they said, Jaya Pata Kamara is leading the whole programme over there, several years ago. So then, after that, the next morning, the devotees woke up and they were chanting. So, one local Russian devotee came, and he said, there are some Russian people who want to talk with you.
So, I said, yes, bring them in. They have some questions. So, they were a typical Russian couple.
Russia has also become quite westernised. So, they were scantily dressed, young, male and a female. And, they said, they were speaking through a translator.
They were speaking Russian. And, they said that, we had come to the banks of the Volga for our honeymoon. And, yesterday night was the best night of our honeymoon.
And then, Maharaj was saying, we have a question. So, I said, yes. He said, yesterday we were singing that song, and that song made us so happy.
You want to know, what was that song? So, they had no idea what the song was. So, even without knowing the meaning of the song, even knowing the cultural context, the holy name acts as the spiritual name. So, here, people who knew nothing about Krishna, nothing about Harinam, they experienced the Hainu taste.
Because, and what was their experience? It is a taste higher than the highest material pleasure that is glamorised in the world. They are not even practising devotees, but even they can experience it. So, if Krishna can give that experience even to such people, and if we try to serve him, Krishna can surely give us, not just one, but many, many experiences of that Hainu taste.
This is the power of the holy name. This is the power of Inna Transformation. And, when we experience this Inna Transformation, then there is no doubt about the truth.
Not only there is no doubt, actually, we become instruments for bringing about a positive change in this world. At that level, we experience that Krishna is the highest reality. And, my relationship with Krishna is the ultimate reality.
I have relationship in this world, I have duties in this world, I have to do them. But only to the extent that I connect all of them with the ultimate reality, to that extent, they are meaningful and productive. And we harmonise our obligations within this world with that ultimate reality.
So, this is the ultimate gift that Lord Krishna and Srila Prabhupada are giving us. Guiding us to the realm of ultimate reality. The reality of love.
So, I will quickly summarise. We discussed four main points. I discussed about the acronym LOVE.
Some things I couldn’t discuss. So, we discussed the modern idea of LOVE means just do what you want. That’s freedom.
And then we have freedom to love. The real freedom is not the freedom for, but the freedom from. We discussed the book American Paradox, how freedom for is leading to misery and dissatisfaction and frustration.
And we discussed how the opportunity to love the eternal is rare. Even within the, we discussed the acronym FIT, why we should love. Utility, Substantiality and Temporality.
But even within religious traditions, people may just get caught in the rituals. Or they may get caught in just the intellectual speculation. So, when philosophy and religion are together, then spirituality becomes a science of inner transformation.
So, that opportunity is very rare. We don’t have that opportunity. And there are differences within the various religions.
Variety expresses Krishna’s accessibility. We discussed about how the various devatas are like ministers whom the king sends out to get his son back home. And then we discussed how there is a science of inner experience.
It’s an experiential science where you experience inner happiness through systematic process. So, when we practise, then that is the ultimate harmoniser and verifier. Thank you very much.
Are there any questions? Do you have a mic? No, thank you. I just wanted to express my both of thanks. I just want to thank you and then email it to Krishna.
I just wanted to express a vote of thanks to his guest Chaitanya Charan Prabhu for giving us such a nice and interesting explanation of this concept called love. If you agree with me, please chant Haribol thrice very loudly. Haribol Haribol Haribol So, thank you very much Chaitanya Charan Prabhu.
We have a guest list here with us. We have Mr. V.K. Mehra with us who is retired director of RPG Group. Now, he is with BARC.
So, we would like to welcome him. Thank you very much. We have Mr. Sorry, Dr. Rajesh Gaikwad with his family here.
Mr. Gaikwad is hostel rector of Government Dental College and he is the head of Department of Periodontics. So, we would like to welcome him also. And of course, we have the father of the speaker today.
So, we welcome all these guests in our traditional style by loudly chanting three times. Haribol Haribol Haribol Now, I will ask all the participants here if they have any questions. This is the best time to get your doubts clarified.
Thank you for inviting us today evening. You were mentioning about demigod worship also. So, Lord Krishna has manifested himself in Archa form to bestow his mercy on the devotees who worship him.
We see that many people worship the deities of demigods. So, my question is that is that demigods have also got the potency to manifest themselves in Archa form and is that process of deity worship of the demigods bona fide for the people who are hankering after the material deities? Yes. Can the demigods manifest in their deities? Yes, they can.
Because they are the empowered representatives of Krishna who are performing that particular service, Krishna has given them that power. In the Srimad Bhagavatam in the fifth canto there is a pastime of Jada Bharat. So, when he is in danger in a Kali temple at that time Kali herself manifests through the deity and protects Jada Bharat.
So, it is a bona fide system. And yes, they can get benefit by that because they can see the devata as a person and develop a relationship and get the blessings of devata and eventually they will come to the pure devotional platform of worshipping Krishna. Any other questions? Wherever the mind is.
Thank you very much for such beautiful words and the actual meaning of love. My question is regarding futility. So, recently I read a book called as the power of the subconscious mind.
And in that book I came across this word for the first time that is futility. It is said that futility can be achieved. It is the desire to achieve something.
If you desire from your subconscious mind, it can be achieved. And you tend to like a bit of contradicted the statement. So, right now I am in a dilemma which one to follow and which one to be left alone.
So, there are books like the power of the subconscious mind which talk that if we desire something very strongly then we can achieve it. And that desire just has to percolate down to our subconscious. There are several books like that.
Now, that is quite an old book. Now, there is a book called the secret which also has a similar idea. So, now, it is true that the mind affects us.
It is certainly true that people who are not focused and singular and intense in their desires cannot achieve much. So, as far as the power of focussing our desires to achieve something is concerned, in contributing towards getting that result, that is valid. And actually before books like this came up, the idea of mainstream materialistic science was that our mind doesn’t play any role.
Everything is just mechanistic, material. So, the psychological aspect of life is being recognised increasingly. So, earlier the pendulum had shifted to one extreme and our mental life doesn’t matter.
Everything is just material causes and effects. So, now the mental life is being recognised. But unfortunately, the pendulum is being taken to the other extreme.
So, the idea is, books like these make the mind into a god. They say that actually if you just think deeply enough and desire deeply enough, then whatever you want, you can achieve it. Now, with all due respects, can the author of this person stop himself from dying, no matter how strongly he desires? No, isn’t it? So, old age, disease, death, these are unavoidable factors in this world.
And to imagine that the mind itself is supreme is just another trick of the ego to make us think that we are the supreme. So, certainly there is validity in the point. Krishna talks in the Bhagavad Gita, in the 18th chapter, there are five factors of action.
So, he described there are five factors of action. So, the external factors are the senses, the place where we act, he talks about the body, the soul. One of the factors that he talks about is also cheshta.
Cheshta is endeavour. Commentators in the Bhagavad Gita describe that this is connected with the subtle mind and the energy thereof. So, this is one of the factors that contribute to success.
So, certainly having a positive attitude and an intense desire contributes to the success. But it is not decisive in the success. There are things which are beyond our capacity.
As I gave examples of stopping old age, disease and death. We can’t do that, no matter how strongly we desire. So, we do acknowledge the power of the mind, but we recognise that the mind is not omnipotent.
Only Krishna is omnipotent. And our endeavours are ultimately expressions to Krishna. And if Krishna is anxious, then we get what we desire.
Clear? Any other questions? Yeah, you were talking about Vaishnavism. What is the difference between Vaishnavism, Buddhism and Shaivism or Hinduism to be on a particular point? According to many books and other religious books, they say that God is omnipresent. And you say it’s Krishna.
They never took any kind of guarantee that this is God or follow this. Even in Shaivism, they say Shiva is the Lord. In Vaishnavism, you say Vishnu is the Lord.
In Buddhism, they say Buddha is the Lord. And Hinduism says that Lord cannot be seen. You have to find him.
It’s not present in the world. And whoever came on this earth was just to give us the brief idea about God. What do you say about this? So, different religions have different conceptions about God.
So, how do we understand them? First of all, regarding Buddhism, generally Buddhists don’t consider Buddha to be God. They may consider him to be an enlightened soul who is guiding us along. They accept him as authority.
But Buddhism technically speaking is a non-theistic religion. It doesn’t accept the idea of a God. It emerged at a particular time historically when there were a lot of religious rituals which were defeating the purpose of religion.
Religious rituals were leading to the killing of animals. And Buddha came along and he said just stop all these rituals. And then, this is what the scriptures are telling.
Can’t you see that you have to practise basic morality? Actually, the scriptures were misinterpreted and misused for that purpose. So, Buddha told them that just stop all this. Practise basic morality.
Practise non-violence. And elevate yourself. So, Buddhism was a religion that was at that particular time relevant to get people back to preliminary morality.
So, that preliminary morality and non-violence is a foundation from which people can become devotionally minded in the future. Now, there were two occasions when Buddha’s disciple Ananda asked him who will be your successor? Buddha was silent in both occasions. So, different commentators interpreted his silence in different ways.
But it is indicative that Buddha knew that what he was teaching was not eternal religion. It was contextual religion for that particular purpose. And certainly, it can elevate people up to a particular level.
So, beyond that it doesn’t talk much about God. If you study Buddhism, Buddhism is more practical than philosophical. It really doesn’t go much into philosophy.
So, therefore, there are several devotees within ISKCON who were Buddhists. And one such devotee mentioned of Prabhupada, he told, Prabhupada asked him what attracted him to Krishna Consciousness. He said that Buddhism told me how this world and its worldly pleasures are false.
Krishna Consciousness is telling me what are the real pleasures. So, it’s a progression. It’s a progression.
Now, secondly, with respect to Hinduism, Hinduism is an extremely undefinable entity. When the Indian Supreme Court had to decide what is a Hindu, at one particular point in 1962-63, they said that any person who is in India and is not a Muslim, Christian, Parsi, Jew, he is a Hindu. That was their idea.
But, broadly speaking, so, first of all, the word Hinduism doesn’t come in any of the Vedic scriptures. It’s a recent nomenclature that has been devised. But, broadly speaking, Hindus accept the sanctity of the Vedic scriptures.
So, if you start from that point, that Hindus are those people who accept the Vedic scriptures to be sacred, then, rather than having a sentimental idea of what Hinduism is and what it is not, it is best that we objectively investigate the Vedic scriptures. And if we investigate the Vedic scriptures, we will find that they are all having a cohesive message that goes towards a particular conclusion. So, in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna is telling, वेदईश्च सरवेव अपने वदिद्दू There are many Vedic literature, but their ultimate conclusion is to surrender to the Supreme Lord.
Similarly, the Srimad Bhagavatam is one of the most important Vedic scriptures. After Vyasadev wrote all the other books, then he wrote this book. And, in this, he exclusively recognised the Supreme Lord.
So, all that he had written earlier, he was not satisfied with that. But when he wrote this, he became satisfied. Now, with respect to Shaivism, Shiva and Krishna are almost the same.
They are almost the same. It is, शीरं यथान अधिविकार विषेष योगात It is, शीरं यथान अधिविकार विषेष योगात Just as milk gets transformed into curd by contact with some acid. Similarly, the Supreme Lord Vishnu gets transformed into Shiva by contact with the mode of ignorance.
So, that means, for all practical purposes, if somebody worships Shiva, that person can get elevated. And, as I told, if a person worships Shiva with a pure heart, that person will get elevated to ultimately Krishna devotion. But, the important point to understand is it is a plan.
And if somebody is attracted to Lord Shiva, that is also fine. That person will get elevated. And gradually, now it is said that Lord Shiva’s abode is Varanasi.
And if somebody departs in Varanasi, then that person is liberated by the grace of Muktinath, Lord Shiva. Now, in the scriptures itself, it is said, how the person gets liberated? Lord Shiva chants in the ears of the dying person the name Ram. Lord Shiva often has a mala with him.
He is chanting some mantras. So, Parvati Devi once asked him, the whole world is chanting your name, Om Namah Shiva, Om Namah Shiva. Whose names are you chanting? And Parvati Devi replied Lord Shiva replied to Parvati Devi Ram Ram Rameti Rame Rame Mano Rame Sahasranama Tattvalyam Ramanama Varanane Ram Ram Rameti Rame, Rame is addressing his wife, his consort.
Rame, Rame, Mano Rame. This name of Ram is a joy to my heart. So, actually it is a progression.
And certainly, if some people are attracted to Lord Shiva’s worship by his grace, they will graduate immediately. Isn’t it? Shiva is a bhakta of Ram. And he takes the name of Ram.
Why do you take the name of Krishna? Why not take him as Supreme Lord, Lord Ram? Oh, Lord Ram and Lord Krishna are the same person. Yeah, I do get your point. So, instead of Krishna worshipping, why not Vaishnoism should follow the worship of Krishna? Which is written in the Vedic or whatever.
Vaishnoism is the Lord of Krishna. Okay. So, why not worship Krishna? Actually, Vishnu, Krishna, Ram are the same person.
And by worshipping all of them, one can get liberated from material existence and attain eternal life. So, normally the name of Krishna comes more in the Vedic scriptures because Vishnu is more of the functional deity. So, Vishnu interacts with this world.
Vishnu is like God in office. Krishna is God in home. So, both are God and the same person.
But if you see, Krishna manifests more intimate loving relationships than Vishnu. Now, God is Supreme and God is the father of everyone. But for the sake of reciprocating love, Krishna accepts somebody as his father.
Except somebody as his mother. Now, nobody is the father or mother of Vishnu. Vishnu is the Supreme Lord.
So, he is God in office. So, that’s why as far as the philosophical tattva is concerned, in understanding God there are two things, there is tattva and there is rasa. Tattva is the philosophical truth and rasa is the devotional experience.
So, as far as tattva is concerned, there is no difference between Krishna, Vishnu and Ram. They are all the same absolutely. But as far as the intimacy of the loving relationships are concerned, Krishna exhibits those relationships far greater.
Krishna has a mother, a father, he has friends. He is actually the source of all of them. But he allows his devotees to serve him in a much more intimate way.
So, Vishnu is God at home, Vishnu is God in office, Krishna is God at home and Lord Ram actually is in between. Lord Ram exhibits much more intimacy but still not as much as Krishna. There is very little baal-leela of Lord Ram.
So, Lord Ram does not exhibit as intimate pastimes as Lord Krishna. So, it is described that Lord Ram and Lord Vishnu exhibit 60 qualities in their loving interactions with devotees. Lord Krishna exhibits 64.
That’s why we worship Krishna. But we celebrate Ram Navami, we celebrate so many other festivals, Vamana Dvadasi and Vrishnu Chatur Dasi and if anybody is a Vaishnava, it’s wonderful. Now, the generic name is Vishvaishnava because Vishnu is God in office and that’s why in the scriptures the name Vishnu comes.
Now, if we have the Gazette of India, Gazette of India will contain the official name of the Prime Minister of India. Isn’t it? Now, the Prime Minister may have a nickname at home, you know, you know, if he goes home, maybe his mother will call him, Mannu, why are you late? So, Krishna is God at home. And that’s why in the official Vedic scriptures, which are primarily talking about the interaction of God with the world, he is not talking about so much.
But in the devotional scriptures, he is talking about extensively. In the Srimad Bhagavatam, there are 335 chapters, 90 chapters are exclusively about Krishna. So, he is talking about extensively also.
Any other questions? Hare Krishna Guruji. Guruji, does any other scripture from other religion give some sort of indication which signify that he is Krishna, the Supreme Lord is Krishna? Not directly, but some indirect indication. Do the other religions give any indication that the ultimate, absolute truth is Krishna? In the Old Testament, in the Old Testament, is the religious book of the Jews.
In the Old Testament, it is mentioned that God is blue. There are the references to that. So now, what that means is not very clear.
Similarly, in the Bible, there is called a Song of Songs. The Song of Songs is describing a romantic relationship with God. That means there is a king, there is a devotee over there, he is talking about God as his husband.
He is talking about a romantic relationship. Now this, there is no further development of this thought. Now certainly, Jesus was a celibate.
You don’t have a romantic relationship with Jesus. And although somehow some Christians consider Jesus to be God, Jesus clearly said, I am the son of God. So, where is the conception of a God who has a consort and he has a romantic relationship? Prabhupada asked this question, that if Krishna is the same God that Jesus talked about, then why didn’t Jesus talk about that God? So Prabhupada gave different answers.
As I said, one time he said, Jesus himself said, there is much more that I have to tell you. But you don’t have the ears to hear. But apart from that, if you see, the audience to which these books were spoken, with all due respect, there have been great saints in these traditions also, but if you look at the audience, the Old Testament, there is very little description of God.
It is basically an account of the movements of God’s people. The Jews were slaves in Egypt and how God guided them to freedom to Israel. Basically, it’s an account of the activities of God’s people.
The Bible, the New Testament, is an account of the teachings of Jesus, where primarily he gives basic moral knowledge. He doesn’t tell stories through which ethical knowledge is given. If you look at the Quran, the Quran is considered to be the word of God.
But within the word of God, it is not that Mohammed is asking any questions. There is very little philosophy. If you look at the Bhagavad Gita, the Srimad Bhagavatam, there is systematic philosophy and there are critical questioning going on.
And there is systematic answering. The Quran is certainly the word of God, but it’s a very unidirectional flow. There were times when Mohammed would go into trance and he would get revelation.
And then what he got, the revelation, that was later on compiled, several decades after his death, into the Quran. So, there is no systematic philosophical discussion. And if you look at the social life that these people were living, when that knowledge was given, actually, the Arabian area was in complete moral and political mess.
Similarly, the Egyptian slaves who became free as Jews, they were actually in a very educationally, philosophically primitive condition. Similarly, the audience of Jesus was not very philosophically involved. So, that doesn’t mean that one cannot attain love of God through these methods.
It just means that the original revelation doesn’t contain much positive knowledge. So, Srila Prabhupada said, he gave a very objective criteria. He said that, do you accept that God is all beautiful? He said, of course.
Do you accept that God is all powerful? He said, yes. Do you accept that God is all wealthy? He said, yes. Do you accept that God is all famous? He said, God is all wise.
God is all renounced. So, there are six opulences of God. So, no theistic tradition will deny these qualities of God.
So, now, here there is the qualification, the power of God, the qualities of God that is described. And then, here there is a person who matches the qualities. So, if we know that there is a Prime Minister of India and the Prime Minister of India has this power.
If he says, Indian Army, attack. Related Indian Army will attack. So, he has powers.
Now, if somebody just comes into this temple and says, I am the Prime Minister of India. You know, somebody else will say, I am the Queen of England. There are so many people who claim to be God, who do not have the power of God.
But, if there is a person who actually has the power to make the Indian Army attack some other hostile country. Then, if he exhibits that power, we can understand he is God. So, here there is an objective criteria for describing God.
And there is, here, here is a person who is exhibiting those qualities. So, why not accept him as God? No, but it is not talked about in our religious tradition. So, then, the question has to go a little more penetrative.
Are you interested in religion or are you interested in God? Are you interested in religion or are you interested in God? It is like somebody wants to study computer science and he studies and says in college in India and then computer science is much more developed in MIT in America. So, now if somebody says, I want to study computer science, but I will study computer science. If this book is not written by a professor from my university, I will not read that book.
That is an untouchable book. He says, are you interested in the college or are you interested in the knowledge? So, similarly, here, the various religions have ways to love God and for loving God, we need knowledge about God. So, if there is no, if these are objective qualities of God and there is no person who fits these qualities described in those religious traditions, and here there is a description, why not accept it? If one is not accepting it, that means one is very close-minded.
One is not interested really in God, one is interested in religion, which is unfortunate. Any last question? Prakriti, I had a question in mind. We see that there is a lot of commercialisation going on in holy places also.
It is becoming almost like a city. So, what is the advantage of visiting holy places? What is the advantage of visiting holy places when they are becoming commercialised? Yes, the commercialisation is external. The commercialisation is external.
Ultimately, there is a spiritual essence to those places. And we need to perceive that. That’s why going alone to the holy places is not much beneficial.
Because if our consciousness is not tuned to see the spirituality of those places, then we can’t perceive that spirituality. So, therefore, when we go in the association of spiritually-minded people, we go with devotees, and we go not for sightseeing, but we go for purifying our hearts. We go and hear about the activities of the great saints who had lived and moved there, and the activities of the Lord performed over there.
So, we see those holy places through the ears. Then, going to those places does purify us. Because Krishna had manifested there, great saints had been there, and their presence is not one time.
Even if it was, historically speaking, one time, at a spiritual level, it is all time. And those vibrations, we can connect with. As far as the commercialisation is concerned, we understand that it is there, but we set it aside.
So, ultimately, the spiritual essence is like the flow of a river. When a river is flowing, when a river is flowing, it, as it keeps flowing, flowing, flowing, it creates a bed. And, as it creates a bed, the water can go much, much more easily through that river.
However, when the river starts flowing nicely, there are many people who come to exploit that river for their own purposes. They are not interested in going to the ocean with the river. They are interested just in staying stuck over there and exploiting the river.
So, spiritual current is like a river which is meant to take us to Krishna. And as a number of people with this spiritual current come together, then they form an institution. The purpose of the institution is to take us towards Krishna in a more easy and cooperative way.
At the same time, there are some people who come or who get attached to just the facilities that are there. So, some people start using religion as a tool for commercial gain. This is a part of the material world and it is going to happen.
But if we are clear, we have to always be clear about the difference between the river and the river bed. The institution is important, the river bed is important because it offers the facility for the river to flow. Similarly, whatever facilities are there, the commercialisation is there, the institutionalisation is there, all that, whatever is there is a facility for people to go towards Krishna.
But if some people get caught up in that, then they are unfortunate. So, we shouldn’t get caught up in that. Again, if you remember, I talked about philosophy and religion.
If I understand the philosophy properly, then I understand that the purpose of entering the river is not to make a house on the river bed. The purpose of entering the river is to go towards the ocean. Similarly, the purpose of coming to any spiritual place or coming to any spiritual organisation is not just to get some material comforts or material power or material fame or anything like that.
The purpose is to attain Krishna. That’s why if we are associating with devotees and going to such places with devotees, then whatever effects of commercialisation, institutionalisation might be there, negative effects, they can all be circumvented and we can join that flow and reach Krishna faster. Thank you very much.
Krishna Pradhupada ki Jai! Gaur Bhakta Vrindaki Jai! Jai Gaur Premanandai So, thank you again Chaitanya Chaitanya Prabhu for your nice answers to our questions. Just a few quick announcements before we go to the next part which is the Kirtan which Prabhuji was mentioning in his class. So, every year we organise a Yatra.
It’s group IYS Yatra, the entire group of youth preachers organises a Yatra. Last year if you remember we had been to Tirupati. So, this year we are going from July 22 to July 27 to Mayapur Dham as was announced earlier.
Now, the essence is that tomorrow is the last day for paying the fees. So, if you have not done it already, if you have not registered for this Yatra, please do so tomorrow. Tomorrow is your last chance and now we have this contest that will be held during this Yatra.
It’s the Krishna Book Contest. So, just to prevent any misnomers there. So, we have a presentation by Chaitanya Leela Prabhu.
This is for all the participants of the Yatra only. So, all those who have registered for the Yatra only, they need this information. There will be three rounds.
The qualifiers rounds, the semi-finals and the finals. This is based on Krishna Book. So, this information is given to you so that you can study the Krishna Book before you go to the Yatra.
Shri Radha Gopinath Bhagwan Ki, Gopalji Bhagwan Ki, Nithaya Govachandra Bhagwan Ki. So, Krishna Leela is broadly divided into three sections. The Vrindavan Leela, Mathura Leela and Dwarka Leela.
So, the qualifiers round is based on the Vrindavan Leela which is chapters 6 to chapter 13 in the Krishna Book. The semi-finals is also another section of Vrindavan Leela that is 11 to 20 and 23 to 28. Mathura Leela which is chapter 36 to 45 and Dwarka Leela 70 to 90.
So, kindly make it a point to study these chapters. If you wish to win big prizes in this contest. The finals will be all past times of Lord Krishna.
It is mentioned in the Krishna Book. So, please make it a point. There are some prizes that we have.
There will be books, certificates and there is a Govinda’s restaurant in Mayapur. So, you get a free voucher to have nice Prasadam there. So, without this the prizes are incomplete.
Alright. So, this is being highlighted by our organisers here that the next Yatra which is IYS 2013 will be sponsored for you. So, please study the Krishna Book nicely and participate in this contest.
Thank you very much. Please visit our website also. There are many interesting articles there.
Lot of material to be downloaded. IYS at RadhaGopinath.com IYS dot RadhaGopinath.com So, chapter numbers that were displayed just a little bit earlier also put up this information that was displayed just now is also put up on this website. Yes.
This year we know the Janmashtami festival is on August 10th. So, there is a very nice facility introduced this year for all those who are willing. Generally, we see that in our offices we are interested in Krishna Consciousness but then we want some opportunity to pull in our friends or the people with whom we are acquainted in our offices and generally these people very difficult to get them through books or something like that.
So, Janmashtami is a very popular festival in India. So, they have organised, the temple has organised a special facility called Divya Snan. This facility is offered to all of you who are willing to participate in this.
You will be allowed to bathe the deities of Radha Gopinath on Janmashtami day. So, that’s a very wonderful facility that is being offered. The small deities of Radha Gopinath will be put in the hall downstairs, Bhaktivedanta hall and then you can participate in Abhishek.
But primarily I would say this is a preaching opportunity and you should invite all your friends and colleagues in your offices for this opportunity. The cost for this Abhishek is 5000 rupees and for one donation of 5000 rupees four members can participate. So, this is a nice opportunity especially for those who are working and they want some opportunity to bring their friends to the temple.
Some other announcements. The next Prerana festival is on 18th of August. The topic is Developing Fearlessness by his guest Braj Bihari Prabhu.
So, kindly make a reminder on your cell phones, schedules.