Maintaining faith on the spiritual path 1 – Bhakti is not all-or-nothing

[Seminar at Bhakti Lounge, Wellington, New Zealand]

Video

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Shloka Hare Krishna Hare Krishna I’m grateful to be here amongst all of you.
Sorry we got late in the traffic. I’ll be speaking on the topic of faith in the role of faith on the spiritual path. And I’ll speak this broadly.
Today I’ll speak more on faith as applied to our practise of the process. So tomorrow I’ll speak more on the topic of faith as applied to our transformation as it is happening. So they are related.
But the one is, it’s like faith, if I’m sick and I need a medicine. First is that the medicine works. The second is that the medicine is working on me.
And how is it working on me? So broadly speaking, let’s begin with the, let’s look at where Krishna talks about faith in the Bhagavad Gita. One of my friends recently told me that he was going to write a book on the Bhagavad Gita and he said he’s calling that as 10 commandments of the Bhagavad Gita. So I told him, please don’t write a book like this.
He asked me why. I said, the Gita’s mood is not the mood of commandments. The Gita’s mood is more of choices and consequences.
If you do this, this will happen. If you do this, this will happen. Now you decide what you want to do.
If you see the Gita concludes with a call to Arjuna to deliberate. In 1863 he says, now you deliberate on what I have said and then you decide. So here we have a vision of a God who respects human intelligence and respects human independence.
You decide what you want to do. It’s interesting but he said no, but Krishna is also quite, of course he’s writing a book on the Gita, so he’s very well read. So he said no, but three verses later that instruction is superseded because Krishna says give up all religions and surrender unto me.
So ultimately Krishna is giving a commandment. He said yes, but if that were the essence of the Gita then Krishna could have completed the Gita in one verse only. Isn’t it? He could have just started by saying Krishna is asking, Arjuna is asking, what should I do? Please tell me what am I meant to do? What is Dharma? And he could have concluded by saying just do what I am telling you to do.
But throughout the Gita Krishna does not draw on his authority to make the point. He doesn’t say I am God, so you should do this. He gives reasoning.
This is like this, this is like this and this is why you should do this. So when Krishna does say 1866 that give up everything and surrender to me, the point over there is that Krishna has already given Arjuna various options and Arjuna is thinking which of these options should I do? Vishwacharya Thakur, a prominent Bhagavad Gita commentator, he says that Krishna after he speaks this, now you deliberate deeply and decide what you want to do. So Arjuna becomes lost in thought.
Krishna said this in that chapter and Krishna said that in that chapter and Krishna said that in that chapter and seeing him so deeply immersed in thought, Krishna says Krishna’s heart overflows with compassion. In fact the next two verses are very sweet. It is, 1864 he says that Now I will tell you the most confidential knowledge.
Sarva Koiyata Mambhuya Shrunumai Paramam Vachaha This is the top most words that I am going to speak to you. And why am I speaking them to you? Ishto Sime Dhrudhamiti Because I dearly love you. It is Ishto Sime Dhrudha.
Dhrudha is determined. So what Krishna means over there is I am determined to love you. Many of us are determined to forget Krishna but Krishna is determined to love us.
Because I care for you so deeply that is why for your benefit I am speaking these words. And then after that he speaks in 1865 Manmana Bhava Madh Bhakto Madhyaji Mam Namaskuru Mami Vishya Satyam Te Pratijane Priyo Sime He says that the same four points which he has said earlier in 934 in the Gita Think of me, devote your heart to me, offer your obeisances to me and worship me. In this way you will come to me.
Although these two verses 934 and 1865 are similar, the stress is different. In 934 Krishna is saying Manmana Bhava Madh Bhakto Madhyaji Mam Namaskuru Yukta Vaivam Atmana Madh Parayanaha Being engaged in this way, you will come to me. And here he says Manmana Bhava Madh Bhakto Madhyaji Mam Namaskuru Mami Vishya Satyam Te Pratijane Priyo Sime You will come to me.
This is the truth. I am speaking because you are dear to me. So the stress is very different.
In writing I am one of my main services in writing How you state something can make a lot of difference. Say suppose you want to say XYZ announced XYZ claimed It’s completely different. Announce his authority.
Claim means is it right or wrong? Or you could take the same sentence. If somebody is to be recommended from some service we might say that He had problems earlier but he is stable now. That’s one way of putting it.
We could take the same two points and put it in the opposite way. He is stable now but he had problems earlier. The emphasis changes completely.
So in the first second case this person is stable so we can do the service. The second way it is they had problems in the past track record. Better don’t give this service to them.
So the emphasis can change completely by how we position something. So what Krishna is doing over here in the 18th chapter 1 First he says 9.34 he is saying if you in this way devote yourself to me, you will come to me. So it’s like if two people want to make a deal then first Krishna is saying if you do your part then you will come to me.
Then I will do my part. Whereas in 1865 he is saying He says that if you do this, I guarantee you you will come to me because you are dear to me. So what is happening is as the Bhagavad Gita is progressing Krishna’s compassion is overflowing more and more in his heart.
And in a sense in 9.34 he is saying if you do this, I will do this. That is the point. But here he is saying he is so eager that the deal be sealed if you do this, I guarantee you I will do my part.
So Krishna’s compassion is increasing. And therefore when he says that is not so much in the mood of instruction as a expression of compassion. Don’t be confused.
I care for you very deeply. Therefore just do what I am telling you and I will take care of everything else. So it’s not so much like a commandment as you could say an exhortation.
As a call coming out from the heart to one heart is speaking to another heart. So the point I am making here is that the Bhagavad Gita when it talks about faith what is it talking about? I started with this point of how the mood of the Bhagavad Gita is not of commandments. That means there is some person up and they are giving instructions and Krishna is giving instructions and Arjuna has to obey.
The mood is of a personal connection. Krishna and Arjuna by discussing the Bhagavad Gita are developing a deep personal connection and it is based on that personal connection that there is an exhortation that is coming. So when Krishna talks about Shraddha this is called, just forget everything else and surrender to me, that’s definitely a call to faith.
There is faith required. In one sense you could say faith is in the heart and faith is expressed through surrender. So surrender is faith in action.
It’s like if somebody says that the doctor says we have to do surgery and the patient says I have faith but I can’t do the surgery. Well then do you really have faith? So faith is inside, it’s expressed through our actions and a particularly climactic action of faith would be surrender. Now this is of course the conclusion of the Gita but the point I use this is it’s not so much commandment as it’s a connection based on which there is an exhortation coming over there.
But if we go backwards in the Srimad Bhagavatam in the first canto the second chapter is divinity and divine service and that is the one chapter from which Prabhupada quotes the most in the Gita in his various classes. Most verses he quotes from there. And there is a verse 1 to 12 where Krishna where Suta Goswami is speaking about how the process of bhakti works.
So he says In this way those who are faithful equipped with gyan and with knowledge and renunciation they practise bhakti as heard according to scripture and by that they see the inner self they see the spiritual reality. Now interestingly in this verse Shraddha, what is the normal meaning of the word Shraddha? Faith. But Prabhupada in the translation he says the seriously inquisitive sage.
So faith here is serious enquiry. And similarly if we consider the nine stages of bhakti one of the first is Shraddha So Shraddha if you look at the way Prabhupada translates it frequently it is favourable curiosity. Maybe there is something out there.
So when somebody is living a materialistic life then Shraddha of faith would mean maybe there is something out there. I want to find out. So if we see another context is we often say human life begins with enquiry.
So it’s not a call for having faith as a call for making enquiry. Brahma Jigyasa is spiritual enquiry. And even when we make an enquiry we could say that there is some amount of faith over there.
If we ask a question to someone then we ask that question because we have some faith that this person probably knows more than me and they can answer the question. But it’s not that we are simply accepting whatever that person is saying. So the curiosity is the first level of faith.
When Adau Shraddha Sadhu Sangat. So it’s the beginning of spiritual journey is curiosity. Curiosity that maybe there is something more.
We are living a day to day life where we are pursuing our bodily needs and our various desires. But maybe there is something more to life. If there is, what is it? That enquiry is what the Vedanta Sutra calls for.
So here also faith is not in that there is somebody up there yodelling. Faith is that maybe there is something more to life. Let’s try to find out.
So this idea of faith as curiosity is something which can always keep us moving in our lives. So now if there are the five stages, does anyone know the stages of devotion as given by Bhakti Samudra Sindhu? Shraddha is the first stage. Does anyone know how it moves on? Yes please.
Sadhu Sangat. What is that? Association of devotees. Yes.
Is there something out there? Maybe an enquiry. Whom do I enquire it from? I go to those who are practising. Those who are like devotees.
Sadhu Sangat. And then what happens? Anyone else? Bhajana Kriya. Bhajana Kriya means now spiritual life is not just about gaining knowledge.
It is about gaining experience. And experience comes when you practise something. So without practise whatever we know is like it’s ok, it’s there but we really don’t know about it.
just reading books on spiritual knowledge and hoping to get spiritual realisation is like reading books on weight loss and hoping to lose weight. So yes, we need to read if you want to read but after that you need to apply. If you don’t apply it’s not going to happen.
So then Bhajana Kriya is actually applying as a practise of devotional service. And then what happens when Bhajana Kriya is done? Anartha Nivrutti. Yes.
So Anartha Nivrutti is where the unwanted cravings in our heart start going down. So it can be greed, it can be envy, it can be anger. All these things start going down in our heart.
And it’s interesting the the stage that comes after this. What is it? Nishtha. Yes.
Nishtha and Shraddha have similar connotations. But Nishtha is very deep faith. It is you could say Shraddha is the first stage here is curiosity.
That is the first level faith. Then this is conviction. Where we have experienced the result.
At least to some extent. The Acharyas give the example that this is like a banana tree. And this is like a banyan tree.
What is the difference between a banana tree and a banyan tree? Sorry? Banyan tree has very thick roots. Banana tree is just anybody can go and just shake it. But banyan tree people will shake but the tree will not shake.
It’s like that. So what happens at this stage when we have experienced at least some transformation. We have experienced some transformation and thereafter what has happened yes this works.
It may not work fully. Whether it works fully we don’t know. But at least to some extent it has worked.
So this again it’s faith but it’s not oh there is someone up there and I have to follow. It’s just that I have experienced something. I have experienced not just necessarily some I saw some light or experienced some peace.
All that is good if you have experienced. But the important thing is that there is spiritual experience and there is spiritual state. Spiritual experiences will come and go.
Sometimes we feel very good. Sometimes when we are chanting we just feel so connected with Krishna. Such strength such power that we feel like chanting should never end.
Most days however we feel chanting never ends. It just seems to go on and on and on. So spiritual experiences may come and they may go.
But we are talking about spiritual state. What do I mean by spiritual state? It’s more a state of consciousness. It’s basically we have how much are we attracted towards spiritual reality and how much are we attracted towards material reality.
So the material attachments, the material passions they decrease. And thus we experience the conviction. So I had two friends.
Both of them are quite interested in medicine. So one of them is a DIY allopath. He has a lot of faith in allopathy.
And he reads a lot of books and how to treat this, how to treat that. And another is a homoeopath. And homoeopathy is often considered by western science to be like a quack medicine.
It is nothing except sugar pills been given. And if any cure is happening, it’s simply placebo. There is no cure actually.
And they often consider this homoeopathy to be a hole like a racket. this other friend he says that for years I have been he had some intestinal issue and he said I took allopathy treatment and it didn’t work. I took homoeopathy treatment for three months and it’s fully gone.
So for him, because he has been cured, even if somebody else says this doesn’t work. It is somebody who says this medicine is wrong. Medicine is wrong but the patient is cured.
How does that work? So that means if we have come to the level of conviction here we have experienced the transformation. And even if somebody argues this is not right, that is not right, this is bad, that is bad. Okay, we may not have refutations for that.
But just because you don’t have refutation for something doesn’t mean we don’t have conviction. I don’t know how to refute this person but this has worked for me. So the conviction comes because of the personal transformation that we have experienced.
So the process of Krishna Consciousness is essentially a process of transformation, of progressive transformation. And to the extent we are being transformed, to that extent our faith increases. So I talked till now about this point of faith as the whole mood is not that commandments are given and commandments are to be obeyed rather curiosity is triggered.
And by that we start a process that will bring about a transformation. And when this transformation happens then at least to some level then we experience conviction. And that conviction is a deeper stage of faith.
So any questions or comments till now? Yes, please. Okay, it’s a good question. I wouldn’t put it that bluntly.
What is the difference between spiritual state and spiritual experiences? Okay, so if you say that if we consider something like a mountain this is material consciousness. My handwriting is becoming atrocious here. Okay, this is spiritual consciousness.
So we are going up this journey. So while we are going up our consciousness may sometime peak up like this for a few moments. Sometimes even when we are not practising bhakti very seriously or we are not at a very advanced level but our consciousness sometimes surges up like a wave.
And sometimes we experience certain things which we would not normally experience. Sometimes we say we experience very deep ecstasy. Sometimes we feel say some beautiful darshan of Krishna is there some very sweet kirtan is there.
Sometimes we have some very warm interactions with some devotees some senior devotees and we feel deeply uplifted. So that’s a spiritual experience. So when we talk about spiritual experience it is there for some time and then it goes.
But when I am talking about spiritual state it’s like say we were here and we had a spiritual experience but now from here we have moved up till here. So here this is the level where we are at steadily. Now from here also we might have a spiritual surge but experience is something which comes and goes whereas state is more a matter of overall inclination.
Prabhupada in the 270 purport 270 is So then that purport he says that when he gives the example of the verse of ocean this is reverse flow into an ocean similarly desires may flow into the consciousness of a self realised person but those desires don’t trouble the person. So there Prabhupada talks about the difference between desire and inclination. So this is a very interesting concept.
So if we consider this to be like the consciousness of a person. That’s like an ocean. So normally we think of desires as going out.
Normally we think this is some sense object over here. So the person is here the desire normally goes out. This is something I wanted.
That’s how we normally conceive of desires. But the Sanskrit word is very interesting na kama kami na kama kami means not a desirer of desire. So I’ll explain what that means.
The example is what? If we consider this to be like an ocean. The example is rivers flowing into that ocean do not disturb the person. So what this means is that when the idea is desire flowing in not flowing out.
So what it means is that whenever any attractive object is seen now when that attractive object is seen that perception will enter into our visual channel or oral channel whichever sense object it is. Now when that happens in that so this can also be called a desire. This can also be called a desire at one level.
So na kama kami means not one who is not the desirer of desire. That means the desire flows in but the person is not interested. So it’s like say if we are fasting on Ekadashi and somebody offers us some delicious food maybe a delicious pizza but Ekadashi no.
Maybe tomorrow I will take it. So it’s not that it’s not that it’s not attractive but the inclination to take that is not there. So that’s the difference between desire and inclination.
So Prabhupada uses the word inclination in terms of this flowing out. So when we see something attractive a certain level of attraction coming within us is fine. It’s just not fine in the sense that it’s just unavoidable.
It’s just natural. Say even on Ekadashi if we have some favourite item and we see that our mouth may water and we cannot legislate our mouth and say it should not water. But we can decide that I am not going to eat this.
So the difference is that when earlier I said spiritual state means the consciousness overall is elevated so that even if desires come there is no inclination to fulfil the desire. So the overall orientation of the consciousness is towards Krishna not towards the world. So spiritual state would be more like a steady state of consciousness.
Even within the steady state waves will be there. But if we look at say ourselves 10 years ago or 15 years ago and we look at ourselves now. The steady state will be significantly different.
Maybe at that time our steady state was how can I get more sensual pleasures. Now my steady state is how can I minimise sensual desires? How can I minimise sensual indulgences? So in that sense the state is the overall level, overall inclination of our consciousness that is more in the spiritual direction. So spiritual experiences are like upward surges in the consciousness.
Whereas sensual urges are like downward surges. But there is an overall level of consciousness. Does that make sense to you? Any other questions? How can we remember always that whatever it is is a personal choice? Because sometimes if we are living in the ashram, we do something because others are telling us to do it.
Or because it is the expected standard. Or there could be various levels. So this is maybe a whole subject.
I have a full class on this topic. But I will just mention a few quick points. There is there can be always a difference between our internal emotion and our external action.
Now, when this difference is there, why is this difference there is important. So at one level, if I consider this difference between the two, this distance that is there, this distance, it could be, you could take at the extreme level, it could be because of hypocrisy. That means somebody just has, somebody wants say the prestige from a particular post.
Like in India, we have our one of the biggest, most beautiful temple is the temple in Juhu, which the Prabhupada himself constructed. So that is right in the area where India’s film industry is there, is Bollywood. So especially Janmashtami, many Bollywood stars, they come to the temple.
And now of course we don’t know what is in their heart. But quite often they come there and after that they go and put their photo on Facebook or Instagram that I visited, visited the Krishna temple, Hare Krishna temple in Janmashtami. And people write, oh you are such a nice person, you are so famous, such a star, why don’t you go to the temple.
Now when they are going to the temple, are they going to take darshan or are they going to give darshan? Are they going to see the lord or to show to the world that I went to the temple? Now somebody has no devotion, no inclination for devotion and that person just goes to a temple so that they will look good in people’s eyes. So that would be hypocrisy. Where the inner and outer distance is simply for a show.
But this need not be the only thing. There can be various levels. Now this internal external difference, it can also be because of discipline.
Discipline means I really want to do this but I don’t feel like doing it. And that is required in every walk of life. Even the things that we like to do, our mind is such that it won’t like them all the time.
Even the things we like to do. So it’s again I can give some examples from writing. I sometimes get so absorbed in writing.
But there are some times when I just look at the computer and nothing seems to be coming in my head. So I read a quote by an author, he says, writing is very easy. You just glare at the computer screen till drops of blood form on your forehead.
So now there are authors who may, they want to write but nothing is coming. I’m going to sit here and I’m going to type something. So that’s discipline.
Where we want to do something but our emotions are not accompanying our intention at that time. So this is discipline. Another one could be, you could have as you rightly said, deference.
Deference means out of respect. Respect for someone or respect for some cultural norm, respect for some tradition. That this is the way to behave in a particular situation.
This is also quite okay. Sometimes we might be angry with someone. But if they are older to us, then we say, why do I speak respectfully.
So this is also part of culture. And in a sense actually, we can’t see each other’s thoughts, desires, emotions. And that’s a great blessing.
If we started seeing each other’s thoughts, desires, you think like this about me? You have this kind of desires. Not a single relationship could be sustained. So, you could say nature has given us a buffer by which certain things may come up within us, but we restrain themselves.
So that can be out of discipline, that can be out of deference. And if it is for either of these, this is just a normal way of, you could say, civilised behaviour or purification. Deference would be in culture, society, there is a particular respectable way in which you behave.
So this is fine. Discipline is even better. This could be ritualistic also.
There is a difference between being ritualistic and being hypocritical. Ritualistic is I don’t have faith in this. Or I don’t really care much about it.
But it is what everyone does, so I’ll do it. But hypocrisy is where I don’t want to do it, but I want to get the respect, the prestige out of doing it. So, discipline is even better.
Because I want to get this emotion. I want to have this consciousness. But I don’t have it, let me do the action.
So, Prabhupada told Devotee that if kirtan is going on, you don’t feel like dancing, still dance. As you dance, the bhava will come, the emotion will come. And gradually, what will happen is, the internal and external will become one.
But it will take a long time. And even for somebody who is pure, still it is not necessary that all the things that they do, they love those things equally. Even for a pure devotee, there are some things they may look forward to.
They also do it as a responsibility, but they may not look forward. So now, with respect to having said this difference between internal emotion and external action, there could also be something else going on, that sometimes there might be a lot of incompatibility. You know, I am doing this particular service, but it just doesn’t work for me.
So then what do we do? Then, it is important still to do it as a discipline. Because what happens, our moods keep going up and down. If we ask our mind, what is my nature? What is the service according to my nature? The mind will give a ready answer.
Whatever you are doing right now, that is not your nature. So, the mind is expert at keeping us dissatisfied. So whatever we do, we might feel dissatisfied.
But, if instead of just a fleeting emotion that is coming and going, if repeatedly we are having that same frame of mind, that same kind of incompatibility, same kind of discomfort, then we might decide, maybe this is not the exact way I can conduct myself. Then we may need to do some adjustments. Does that address your question? Any other questions? Any comments? So now, I talked about faith as curiosity and then faith as conviction.
I was talking about that. So now, when we practise the process of Krishna Consciousness, what is the result that we expect from it? What do you think? When we are practising Krishna Consciousness, what is the result that we expect? Sorry? Bliss. Sorry.
Okay, bliss. Yes, that could be one answer. Bliss.
Any other answers? Relationship with Krishna. Yeah, that’s true. Bliss, then relationship with Krishna.
Okay. Freedom from material desires. Anything else? Yes, please.
Service opportunities. That’s quite a service-minded answer. Okay, that’s good.
Service opportunities. Okay. Anything else? Yeah, sorry.
Okay, relationship with Krishna, love for Krishna. Okay. Now I’ll ask you one question.
What do we realistically expect? All of us have been practising Krishna Consciousness maybe for few years, maybe few decades. These are all certainly our aspirations and we do want to develop this. But what can we realistically expect or what, let’s put it this way, what have we achieved till now based on which we can have further expectation? So we could say to some extent now have we achieved any of these? Yes.
Relief from suffering. What kind of suffering are you talking about in general? Okay, that’s a good point. Relief from suffering.
Now if you see this, when I ask this question, what can we realistically achieve? I would say that these are not just like a state. We could say it’s like a continuum or a spectrum. And in this spectrum, we can say now freedom from material desires.
We may not be free from material desires. But if we consider certain gross material desires from which we are definitely free. We can say as compared to how many material desires we had, definitely they are less enough as compared to a relationship with Krishna.
What kind of relationship we had earlier? Maybe we didn’t even care about God. One of my relatives, when I started practising bhakti, I was talking with him about God’s existence. He says, yeah, yeah, I believe God exists.
He is happy there. I am happy here. So, that’s not much of a relationship.
So certainly if we consider all of these, we are progressing in that direction. We have developed at least some relationship with Krishna. Now as far as bliss, surely some experiences of joy we do have.
Then similarly, service opportunities as compared to what we had earlier, we do have more of these. So this is the key that Krishna consciousness is, it’s not so much digital as it is analogue. Digital is like one or zero.
Either we are here or we are not here. Whereas Krishna consciousness is more like an analogue progression. It is we are moving along.
It’s like if you have an analogue watch, it’s gradually the hand is moving. So like that Krishna consciousness, we move gradually. But sometimes we have this conception of Krishna consciousness as all or nothing.
Either I am Krishna conscious or I am in maya. I am an illusion. Now we could say at a moment to moment basis, sometimes we can say that, oh, now I am not in Krishna consciousness.
Now let me try to be Krishna conscious. That’s true. But overall, it’s like analogue.
It’s a gradual progression. And this, this idea of an analogue progression is what Krishna stresses in the Bhagavad Gita in the 12th chapter. When he talks about how there are multiple levels at which we can connect with him.
In 12th chapter, 8th verse, first he says that, just absorb yourself in me. Keep your mind and intelligence absorbed in me. In this way, you will live in me.
So we could say that this is a ladder of love, which Krishna is extending from a very high level to various levels. This is 12, 8, to 12. 12th chapter, 8th verse, 12th verse.
So top level he says is spontaneous absorption in Krishna. Then, the next level he says is, somebody says, I can’t do this. Then he says, He says then, try to fix your mind.
So we could call that as conscientious absorption. So spontaneous is just naturally our heart is attracted towards Krishna. We love Krishna, so we are naturally thinking about, naturally absorbed in him.
But conscientious means our mind may wander, but we get it back, focus. We strive to fix the mind. So, Krishna says, if you can’t be at this level, be at this level.
But then he says, if you can’t do this, Then he says, Then he says, if you can’t absorb yourself in me, work for me. That means, he is saying that, this is partially answer to your question also again. Here Krishna says, even if you can’t fix your mind on me, just work for me.
That means, if you can’t be internally connected with me, at least be externally connected. So the idea is, we talk about devotional service. So generally, if there is a compound phrase, there is an adjective and there is a noun.
So this devotional is the adjective, service is the noun. So the idea is, what we want to do is devotional service. But even if we don’t feel devotional, we can still do the service.
And gradually, the devotional feeling will come. So Krishna says, work for me. He extends downward.
Then he says, if you can’t do this also, then, So he says, then work for some good cause. Broadly he is saying, just be selfless. Just be progressive.
That means, even if you can’t work for me, just work for some cause bigger than yourself. So we could say this is a journey in spiritual evolution. And then he goes further down.
This is indicative that Krishna is giving us abundant room for practising Krishna consciousness. And the process of Krishna consciousness is not this level or get out. It is, if not this level, then this level.
If not this level, then this level. If not this level, then this level. And in that way, we could say that Krishna consciousness is more.
Like I talked about the mountain. Another example you could use is the pyramid. Now at the top of the pyramid, the circle will be small.
At the bottom of the pyramid, the circle will be big. So when there is a pyramid, at that point, somebody who is near the top of the pyramid, they might be, where they are spontaneously absorbing Krishna. But somebody at the bottom of the pyramid might just come, okay, I’ll come to the temple, I’ll come to some centre, I’ll just do some service.
I’ll do some volunteer work. I want to do some, I want to contribute to some good cause. And they are also connected with Krishna.
So Krishna offers us multiple levels at which you can connect with Him. And how is this related with faith again? The point is that if we consider, there is there are two aspects in our relationship with our spiritual master, the spiritual guide, or with Krishna. If we consider the example of Dhruva Maharaj, it’s a very interesting story with many aspects, but let me focus on one particular aspect.
So Dhruva is just a small five-year-old boy, and he is insulted. Actually he is not even directly insulted. He is at his, he just, his father is sitting in his palace, and his brother Uttama is sitting on his father’s lap, and he sees that, and he runs there and wants to sit on his father’s lap.
And as he starts to climb on his father’s lap, his stepmother is there. What is her name? Does anyone know? Suruchi, yes. So now it’s interesting, Ruchi, what is his mother’s name? Sunithi.
So Suruchi is one for whom, one who is Ruchi, attractive. So Dhruva’s father is attracted more to her. But Sunithi, Nithi is morality, is virtue.
So his stepmother may be more attractive, but his mother is more virtuous. So what happens? Suruchi is over there. And she says, she doesn’t let Dhruva climb on his father’s lap.
She says, if you have to climb on your father’s lap, you have to take birth from my womb. Otherwise you can’t climb. When this happens, Dhruva is hurt.
The children are often very tender. Even small acts of rejection can be very big for them. Because for children, their area of control is very small.
And when something goes wrong in that area, then when his stepmother spoke like this, he turned to his father. His father also remained silent. And that hurt him even more.
Often, when there’s some quarrel, we all have our critics, our enemies, we could say. So the harshest words of our enemies don’t hurt us as much as the silence of our friends. Our enemies, we expect them.
That’s all they’re going to do. Those who are against us, those whom we expect to support us, if they remain silent, that can hurt us enormously. So Dhruva felt terribly hurt.
Crying, he ran. All of us. As a child, what shelter does he have? He ran to his mother.
His mother, a maid was there. She had already run and told what had happened. So his mother hugged him and tried to console him.
But she was also powerless. So she told him, he says, my father did not allow me to sit on his lap. He says, I will sit, not only on the lap, I will sit on the throne.
And not only the throne, I will sit on a throne bigger than his own, bigger than his throne. I will occupy a kingdom bigger than his kingdom and I will sit on a bigger throne. How can I do this? Now, his mother, she saw that this child is very determined and she said, there is only one person who can help you.
Who is that? Vishnu, the Lord. Okay, where do I find the Lord? Now, imagine a 5 year old child, mother telling you, in the forest. Today, such a mother would be punished probably by the government services for abandonment of child or for dereliction of duty.
She said, go to the forest. You can find him in the forest. And he immediately left.
Now, when he left over there, at that time, we could say that he was very angry, he was very upset and there is there is one person in the bhakti literature who is almost omnipresent. Who is that? Narad Muni. So, Narad Muni is sometimes seen as a troublemaker.
It’s like when Kamsa has decided that Kamsa, what happens is, he comes to know that, Devaki’s 8th son is going to kill me. Then, to save Devaki, Vasudev says that, I will give all my sons. So, when he goes and gives the first son, Kamsa says, actually, there is no need to give the first son.
Only the 8th son is a threat to all. So then, Narada comes over there. And Narada shows a lotus flower to him.
He says, what? He says, how many petals are there? He says, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 8 petals. Which of them is the first and which of them is the 8th? He says, what do you mean? He says, which child is the 8th child? Oh! And then, he goes back and he grabs that child also. So now, why does Narada do like this? The idea of Narada is that he wants Krishna to appear as quickly as possible.
So, if they have a child and this child is growing, and they are in the prison, they don’t have much facilities to take care of children. So, then, so, they may not have another child immediately. So then, he accelerates things.
Sometimes he may probe people. But, he is actually, he is not a troublemaker, he is a troublemaker. Krishna tells him where to go and what to do.
So there in the Bhagavatam, there is a very interesting verse. When Narada hears that Dhruva has gone to the forest, he says, He says, just see how glorious is the prowess of the Kshatriyas that they cannot tolerate dishonour. Now, we say, the sign of a devotee is tolerate dishonour.
Amanina Manadina. Just tolerate dishonour. So, I was at a temple and many devotees had a had a lot of complaint about the local authority over there.
And they said, he speaks very harshly to us. He just uses terrible language. He criticises us in public.
Then, I was talking with him and I expressed this to him. He says, of course, otherwise how will they learn humility? Now, that is not the way to teach humility. There is a difference between humility and humiliation.
Humiliation only alienates people. Alienates people from the person who is doing it and alienate them from Krishna because you are representing Krishna. Humility is where we consciously shift our focus to me and my respect is not that important.
It is Krishna who is important. So, humility is actually to be cultivated more by conscious choice and it is to be inspired by one’s actions. When we see somebody who is very senior, they are humble and we also feel inspired to be humble.
But humiliating people is not the way to develop humility. So, the point I am making over here is that he was humiliated and he couldn’t tolerate it. So, the point Narada is appreciating is that Kshatriyas, they have a very deep sense of honour and that sense of honour enables them to behave honourably.
If somebody has a sense of honour, we could have three different words. We could have pride, we can have honour and we can have arrogance. Now, the word pride often we use it as a negative sense like lust, anger, greed and deep pride.
It is one of the anarthas. But that is not always the way in which it is used. There are people who you know, I will play for pride, I will fight for pride.
Or you can have the name of, I saw a name of hotel. Hotel executive pride or hotel pride. I have not seen any name of a hotel called hotel arrogance.
So, arrogance is considered to be, if you want to have a spectrum, arrogance is on the negative side. Nobody likes arrogant people. But, honour is something which is important.
There is a letter of Srila Prabhupada where a devotee after taking initiation is not practising the vows. So, Prabhupada writes to him and says, you took the vow in front of the spiritual master, in front of the deities, in front of the sacred fire. How can you not follow the vow? Don’t you have a sense of honour? So, a sense of honour here means that that where we respect ourselves and we respect our word and take that word seriously.
So, for kshatriyas, the sense of honour is very important. Because they have a lot of power. And if they give a word of honour, they will surely honour it.
So, here sense of honour is not in the sense that I am so great, but rather it is that I will behave in an honourable way. It’s in that sense. So, the point I am making is that we could say Dhruva was insulted, but he, out of that insult, decided to go to the forest and seek God.
And Narada is appreciating that. What is the significance of appreciation? I will come to that a little later. But then, Narada comes and underneath me of Prahlad, and he says, what are you doing? Where are you going? And he says, I am going to find Vishnu.
He says, what happened? Narada tells him what happened. He says, you are just a child. Children, while praying, they just quarrel with each other, sometimes fight with each other, sometimes children, when they are playing, they may just fight and yell and they might just have some small fights or they beat each other.
And the adults might get very agitated. What is happening? And after five minutes, both of them are forgotten, both of them play nicely. So, among children, it just goes on.
It just, children don’t take their ups and downs very seriously. If, say you are a child, children don’t take it seriously. And if you think you are an adult, then those who are mature, they don’t take honour and dishonour so seriously.
So, just go back home. Now, Narada is not trying to catch him, if you are a child, if you are an adult. Both ways, he says, go back.
And what Dhruva says is, the instruction, the words you have spoken, are very wise. But, I cannot apply it. I have been very hurt, and I need some solution.
I need to find Vishnu. Please tell me how I can find Vishnu, or let me go online. So then, when Dhruva speaks this, Narada Muni appreciates him.
Okay, I tell you. And then he tells him how to worship Vishnu. So here, what is happening is, Narada Muni cues instruction of a particular level.
Dhruva says, I cannot follow it. And he is not disrespectful, but he is candid. And then, Narada Muni cues instruction appropriately.
So here, what we see is, negotiation. There is submission, but there is also negotiation. Yes, I respect your authority, but I can’t do this.
So, that negotiation is what is often required. Because, ultimately, whatever is to be done, if somebody is giving us an instruction, it is we who have to follow it. Nobody else is going to follow it.
And if our heart is not in it, if we are not convinced about it, or if we feel I can’t do it, then we will just drag our feet along. We just drag our feet along. I was talking with a doctor recently.
He told me that he is a kidney transplant specialist. And he said that it’s almost like whenever a person is sick, at that time, people often don’t if they get a prescription drug, told take this, take this, take this, almost 50-70% people don’t take the prescription drug. Now, I had severe TB about 15 years ago.
And my doctor told me, he told me like 3, 4, 5 times, he said that he gave me treatment for almost 1 year. He told me, after 3 months, your symptoms will go away, and you will feel healthy. But, don’t stop the treatment.
Because, the germs are still there. And, if the TB resurfaces, and it’s called R-TB, resistant TB, and treating that is always extremely difficult, 100 times more complicated. So, because he ground it in me so much, then, I took the treatment for the whole month.
But, he was telling, this doctor was telling me that, so many people, they don’t just take the treatment. Because, they are not themselves convinced about it. After the symptoms subside, they don’t take it.
In fact, with respect to liver transplant, people have to do dialysis. It’s a very messy process. If they don’t get the, sorry, kidney, kidney transplant, not liver.
So, if they have to do dialysis, it’s very, very complicated. You have to get the whole blood out of the body, and then, again, put it in. It takes hours and hours.
So, now, it’s quite complicated, and people do it, and after years of waiting, they get a kidney. When they get a kidney, then, the body often rejects anything foreign that is inserted in the body. So, then, for countering that rejection, some medicine is to be given.
And, if that medicine is not, that medicine curbs the rejection, the WBCs that are fighting the kidney that is inserted. So, when those anti-rejection drugs are not taken, then, the body’s immune system itself destroys the kidney. And, now, people have done dialysis for months and months, waited for years to get a kidney, and after they get the kidney, then, they don’t take the medicines.
How can anyone be so careless? But, it’s interesting, when you survey that, it’s like almost 50% of people don’t take the medicine that they’re prescribed. But, if somebody has a pet, and they take a pet to a doctor, it’s like almost 90% people make sure their pet takes the medicine. Laughter So, it’s so ironical.
And, a point I’m making over here is that, just because something is prescribed, if somebody is not convinced that this is going to work, or this is important, I need to do this, so, that’s why, there’s one level, submission is required, but another level, negotiation is also required. So, negotiation is, I can’t do it. If somebody thinks, this is too messy, I can’t do it.
Then, if you can’t do it, then, either you have to be convinced why it is important, and you have to take, it’s messy, but you need to do it. Or, if it’s too messy, I can’t do it, then, give some other level of treatment, which will work. So, if we don’t take the treatment at all, then, we worsen the situation, and, worsen the treatment, and there are, in some treatments, there are levels of treatment.
Okay, you can take this medicine, or you can take this level, there are different levels of treatment also. So, bhakti is more like that. If you can’t take this level, it is not of much use, if we say that, I’ll take it at this level, and then, we don’t take it at that level.
So, there is a negotiation, Narag Muni is also an expert spiritual guide, who does not impose his instructions. So, I told you, obey this. No, he says, if you can’t do this, then, do this.
So, this negotiation is where, faith is also required. Now, what is the faith over here? The faith is that, what I am told to do, can I do it? Or, I can’t do it. Now, if he has been very hurt, Dhruva has been very, very hurt by the insult that has happened.
So, if he is told that, ok, everything is mis-forgetted, it doesn’t work, because at that point, the wound is too deep inside. So, one of the most frustrating aspects for a devotee sometimes is that, a devotee has a practical problem, and the devotee is given a philosophical solution. Practical problem, hey, come on, no, it’s winter and there is no heater over there.
It’s very cold. Oh, come on, you know, ok. At that time, you can chant and tolerate it.
But, there is a practical solution which is required. So, what happens? Now, we might say that, we could take it at various levels. If, let’s say, somebody is doing kirtan, and the loudspeaker is not working, then, if the kirtan singer says, you know, the loudspeaker is not working, chant Hare Krishna and be happy.
Well, ok, you can chant Hare Krishna, but then, we have to chant Hare Krishna and we have to fix the mic also. So, there is, in some situations, some material things need to be fixed. And, faith means, in Sanskrit, there is another word called Adhikar.
Now, the word Adhikar means level. So, our faith, Shraddha, is very much related to Adhikar. That means, the level which we are at, that will determine how much faith we have or the level we are at, accordingly, we will be able to practise something.
So, if somebody who is very new to Krishna Consciousness, and, what happens? Sometimes, devotees just start telling them, what do you people do? No meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling, no innocent sex. I was at a retreat, I had arranged a retreat for western devotees in America at a place. Now, what happens is, these entirely new people, when we called them, we didn’t even tell it’s a temple, we just gave the address.
And, the temple hall structure was such that, the temple structure is such that, they could come into the temple, and they cross a hall, and then they go to the temple hall. And, upstairs was the seminar room. So, they all came upstairs.
We did not take them to the temple because they were completely new, American people. So, then, I gradually was talking about philosophy, destiny, and free will, and bringing various concepts. Slowly, I was building the subject.
And then, for one session, I was not there because I had to go somewhere else, to another place, to the Theosophical Society over there, to give a talk. So, at that time, they had another devotee give a cooking class. And, he was supposed to, about one, one and a half hours, he was supposed to teach various cooking.
And, in that one and a half hours, it’s like, one hour and fifteen minutes became a class. And, fifteen minutes was cooking. And, that class was a complete dose of Krishna consciousness.
He says, you know, no meat eating, no onion garlic also, wake up at 4.30 in the morning, and this, this, this, you know, and no illicit sex, this, that. It was, at the end of it, all the people, they, they go away, never to come back. It became like that.
We had to spend, the last session was almost like, like undoing all the damage that he had done. So, then, I was talking with that preacher, and he said that, actually, these people are never likely to come again. So, at least once, let them hear the full Krishna consciousness.
Now, okay, if you give them full Krishna consciousness, how is it like? It’s like, suppose, say, suppose, somebody is promoting a new phone, say, a new version of iPhone has come. iPhone X or something now? Whatever it is, iPhone X. So, a new phone has come. Now, does any promotion of a phone begin with a price? Thousand dollars, twelve hundred dollars, fifteen hundred dollars.
Now, all the promotion begins with features. Oh, this is so fast, the screen is so good, this processor is so fast, this is so smooth, so light. And then, in the, in the microscript, you’ll see the price.
Now, obviously, the price has to be paid, but first you have to tell people what are the features and then let the price come. Now, if somebody instead is very proud, I bought an iPhone, and then say, you know, what is the cost of this iPhone? Fifteen hundred dollars. And now, when they are telling like that, they simply want to attract the admiration or maybe even the envy of others, say, I have such an expensive phone.
So, now, that is a very different purpose. Then, if somebody wants to actually sell an iPhone, get others to buy an iPhone. So, in any kind of promotion, first we tell the features, first we tell the benefits, and then we tell the price.
But, unfortunately, what we do is, we often just tell the price, and we are proud of the price. This is the price I am paying. And this is the price you also should pay.
And if you are not paying this, then you are going to go to hell. So, it’s, we may not be, I might be doing a little caricature, but it was just like that over there. So, what happens is that people have a particular level of Adhikar.
Adhikar means, what is their level right now. And we are talking about people, it’s not just new people. As devotees also, we also have a particular level of, a particular level at which you can practise Bhakti.
So, understanding the level, and giving accordingly to them, that is very important. So, when, going back to the earlier story, and he says that he cannot tolerate, Dhruva says, I cannot tolerate this pain. So then, Narayana says, okay, you can’t tolerate it, fine, I’ll give you a remedy.
Now, somebody else, if somebody is a Brahmana or somebody else, okay, somebody is insulted, what’s the big deal? Forget it. So, each person is an individual. And what might be easy to tolerate for one person might be very difficult to tolerate for somebody else.
So, we cannot have one instruction applied for everyone. So, Adhikar is the level the person is at, and accordingly, the instruction needs to be given, so that the person can apply the instruction. So, both from the giver of the instruction, from the receiver of the instruction.
There has to be a certain amount of candid discussion. I can’t do this. Okay, if you can’t do this, that doesn’t mean that person is unsubmissive or rebellious.
Okay, then, what is the reason if you can’t do it? What can you do? Can you do this? So, basically, this idea of negotiation is important because if we don’t have that idea, if we think yes, whatever I’m told, I’ll do it. That attitude is good at one level, in terms of submission. But is it sustainable? Bhakti has to be performed preeti purvaka.
Preeti purvaka means devotion has to be performed with affection. Sometimes we are told to do something and we don’t want to do it at all. And we do it with our heart filled with resentment.
Why do I have to do this? Now, if that is constantly there in our hearts, then we will not be able to, if our heart is filled with resentment, how will Krishna come in the heart? So, there has to be this negotiation to understand what is the level at which a person can practise bhakti sustainably. There are two important factors in balancing this and then we can have some questions. That there is, if you could consider, like a weighing balance on one side is intensity and the other side is sustainability.
So, both are important. If you focus only on intensity, say for example, Ekadashi. Fast on Ekadashi.
That’s intensity. What if someone else fast on Ekadashi? You fasted yesterday. Very good.
Now let’s fast the whole week. Hey, I can’t do that. So, intensity is fine.
But is there sustainability also? So, both of these need to be balanced. Sometimes we focus only on intensity, then we do for some time, but then afterwards it just, when we can’t do it, if we have this attitude of all or nothing in Krishna consciousness, we do all for some time and then after that we do nothing. There was a disciple of Srila Prabhupada.
He went once to Vrindavan and there he met some Babaji. He was chanting something like a lot of rounds. Everyday he was chanting 108 rounds or something like that.
And he said, I also want to chant like that. And he told Prabhupada that, Prabhupada, actually I want to build a small house on top of a tree in Vrindavan. And I will live in the tree house and I will chant.
And Prabhupada said, no. Don’t do that. He said, just chant 16 rounds and do service.
He said, no, no. I want to advance rapidly. And then he just went and he started doing that.
So he was chanting 108 rounds. Then after some days he said, I am chanting 128 rounds now. And then he increased further.
I am chanting 164 rounds. And after that he was found to have disappeared. And what happened? And then they found him near Vrindavan.
He was working at a gas station. Just what happened? He said, I have chanted enough for this lifetime. There is intensity but there is no sustainability.
So we need a balance of both. If we try only for intensity, which is good but if there is no sustainability, then we will oscillate. One of the stages in Anartha Nivrutti is called Ghana Tarla.
Ghana Tarla means sometimes we are very intense and sometimes we are very loose. But we need steadiness. So we have to find out what is the level at which we can sustainably practise bhakti.
And faith means in this context, understanding that bhakti will work for me also. Even if I practise at this level, it may be a little slower but it will work. Any questions till now? There is one thing which I was trying to take tomorrow.
Tomorrow I am going to talk about the balance between self-discipline and self-discovery in bhakti. How much do we discipline ourselves and how much do we discover ourselves in our spiritual practises. But at this point, what I spoke in the second part before the question and answer was that, I talked about how when we are practising bhakti, I talked about Dhruva’s story and there was not just submission but there was negotiation.
And the idea of negotiation is unless there is the conviction about the capacity to practise a particular level, we might pretend to practise and not actually practise or we might just resent while practising and then give it up. So we have to find out what is the level at which we can sustainably practise. I talked about this treatment which was lost which people even get kidney transplant but they don’t take the medication.
So if we do that then we won’t be able to continue. We won’t get the benefit. So faith means recognising that we all have a particular adhikaar, a particular level.
And Krishna also offers multi-level bhakti. Spontaneous absorption, conscientious absorption, then service and then working for any selfless cause even if not service to him. So like that, bhakti is not just, not digital but analogue.
And what we expect in the process of bhakti is a continued love for Krishna, freedom from material desires, opportunity for service, all these will gradually come. And we need to find out what is the way, what is my adhikaar, what is my level right now from which I can sustainably practise bhakti. So any questions about this? Yes, please.
Yeah, correct. Okay. How can we manoeuvre our way through the longest stage of anarthani vritti? Yeah, it’s a it’s a long stage and it is also a stage where the further we go, the changes become slower.
What I mean by that is, when we are practising when we are practising bhakti initially the transformation is quite dramatic. You know we might be, we might be say eating meat or drinking or doing these XYZ things and we just decide to give it up and give it up. And we might have been trying for so long to give it up in the past and we were not able to give it up and now we give it up.
This is magical. How did this happen? This is really magical. And as I was in America, the biggest community of Prabhupada disciples is in a place called Alachua called New Ramanrithi.
So there some Prabhupada disciples were telling me that at that time when Prabhupada was there we were, after one or two years we just experienced such transformation. We thought that in 3-4 years we are going to take over the world and in 10 years we will see Krishna. And in 15-20 years we will go back to Krishna.
That’s what we were expecting. So initially the transformation is quite dramatic. But as we progress in bhakti the transformation happens much more gradually.
It’s happening but it is gradual. Just like say if you are growing. Say when a baby is newborn the baby’s growth is quite significant.
Every one month sometimes if a small child is there then the mother may keep like a wall with the measurement. This is the height in this month. This is the height in this month.
And like a memento for the future. So now you can have that maybe till the child is 10, 15, 17, 18. After that what happens as compared to how much a baby eats an adult eats much more but grows much less.
You know after 18 or 20 you are not really growing much physically. The growth is still there but it is not that tangible. So of course with respect to the body’s growth there is a limit.
Beyond that the body starts deteriorating. That’s not like that in Krishna Consciousness. But the point is when it is with respect to gross anarthas giving them up happens quite dramatically and rapidly.
But with respect to subtle things it is quite gradual. So because of that we might start feeling as if nothing is happening. Every day I wake up and I do this sadhana bhakti.
I chant and I read and I do this puja and every day I have still the same desires coming. I still feel angry. I still feel envy.
I still feel this way, that way. Everything is still going on. So what is the transformation that is happening? So what I have found is that at this stage to sustain ourselves in bhakti we need to have some service which gives us the reassurance that we are doing something valuable in life.
The transformation is happening but because it is so gradual we don’t see it happening so quickly. So one way is that if we are sharing Krishna Bhakti with others and we see the transformation happening in them that also gives us some conviction. Sometimes I give a class and now I have spoken that point many many times but sometimes some devotees come back and that is such a brilliant point.
I feel this was such a point and I was so depressed but it is such a saviour. Really? What is so special? Then I start thinking about it. When you see others inspired then you also feel inspired.
So outreach is very helpful in that sense where we are interacting with those who are experiencing the dramatic transformation of Bhakti. If you are only surrounded with people who are serious practitioners or people who are practising for a long time but who may not be serious practitioners now. So what happens? They all start complaining.
They start gossiping. I read a very interesting definition of gossip. Gossip happens when we hear something we like about someone we don’t like.
And we hear something we like about someone we don’t like. Oh really? Like that? She is like that? Ok. Then we want to share that with everyone else.
So the point is that if we are in our own small community which is good to be having a connection in the community but if people have become lax, if people have become a little apathetic or sceptical or whatever then we will also feel disheartened. So having some contact where we can see others being transformed that is very helpful to sustain us. Another is as I said if we have a service which makes us feel that I am doing something worthwhile in my life then that also gives us that conviction.
Because that worthwhile could be whatever if we have some interests, some talents, some abilities and we want to make some contribution according to that. Maybe we do some art. Even if we have managerial abilities we do some management.
So the inner transformation is happening gradually but while that is happening to sustain us we need to have that sense of outer contribution. It may not that contribution may not lead to any dazzling achievement. If it leads to that’s wonderful.
But even if it doesn’t happen at least that feeling that I am able to contribute something. So then that’s what helps us move on. And another thing that can help is if we have if we have at least one or two good relationships.
Very close relationships where our bonds to Krishna it is already there at some level but it is developing gradually. If we have multiple bonds with those who are connected with Krishna that also helps us keep moving on. So the somebody with whom we can do sharing of our heart if we have that, that helps us to unburden ourselves.
So especially someone who will hear us non-judgemental that’s very important. Otherwise sometimes our spirituality instead of making us more understanding of each other, it makes us more judgemental of each other. And then it becomes like a barrier and just can’t speak anything to anyone.
But if there is a if we have some social circle where there is non-judgemental then it’s very very helpful. Because then we see I am like-minded people I can share, I have these concerns. Then there are others also have these concerns.
And yeah, I can express myself. Our heart needs understanding as much as our body needs oxygen. And if we don’t feel understood then we start feeling suffocated.
So it’s important to have at least one or two relationships like that. So those broad things as well that outreach where we see others being transformed even if our transformation is very slow and also that we are doing some service which is adding some value to our lives where we feel we are doing something worthwhile to contribute. And having some relationships where we can be ourselves that can help us sustain.
Does that answer your question? Any other questions? Yes, please. Okay. The Hare Krishna mantra has the capacity to purify us immediately but then it’s a gradual process.
Yes. It’s like if we are told that if somebody just hits the bullseye on the target in the Olympic games, they will get the gold medal. Well, yes, that’s true but to hit the bullseye you have to shoot not just at one target, thousands and thousands of thousands and thousands of arrows or gunshots you have to do before that.
So for that one pure chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra which can liberate us, which can give us love for Krishna we have to chant many mantras which are gradually purifying us. So in that sense the Hare Krishna mantra has the potency but we can’t access that potency right now. It is because we are not calling out from the heart.
Our heart is not so receptive. So we are preparing the ground of our heart to be receptive. So when scriptures give some promises we can say that those promises if you do this, this will happen.
We can see those promises more as expressions of Krishna’s compassion. And this is the magnitude of mercy that is possible. But that doesn’t mean that is the magnitude of mercy that is universal.
It is possible. What is the difference? Say like, in the Ajamil story. Now Ajamil lives, was initially quite virtuous but then after that he lives quite a devious life.
And then at the end of his life he just chants Narayan. And he is saved. Now if somebody draws the lesson from that, let me also live deviously.
And then at the end of my life or when I have decided I want to end my life, I will take out a gun, put it on my head. Hare Krishna! I will shoot myself. Will Vishnu Das come over there at that time because he chanted? No.
That is not the lesson. The point is not just to call out. The point is also to remember.
Whether one will remember the Lord or not, we don’t know that. But the lesson over there is which Yugdev Goswami also says that and Prabhupada also says in his purport that if Ajamil chanted one name that also unintentionally and he got so much mercy. And if we chant regularly and intentionally and will we not get mercy? So sometimes the extraordinary examples of mercy or extraordinary proclamations about mercy they are given to indicate the magnitude of the mercy that is available.
And they are meant not as a substitute not as a replacement for the standard process for seeking mercy. They are meant to reinforce our practise of the standard process. It’s not that if that happened to him that will happen to me also.
No. That also can happen. And if I do this this will surely happen.
If I do this regularly it will happen. So Krishna’s mercy is in that sense causeless. It’s not that because I have done this Krishna has to give this to me.
But Krishna can give this much mercy also. It’s like mercy means if we hear that some person has given 100,000 dollars in charity and if we go to them you give that person 100,000 give me also 100,000 now. It’s charity.
It’s up to them how much they give. But if that person has given 100,000 there surely we will also get something. So these are more indicators of the magnitude of the mercy.
They are not hyperboles. They are not exaggerations. It can happen and it has happened also.
But that doesn’t mean that’s all will always happen. There is a standard process to be followed and by that we will get surely mercy. That’s the focus.
Does that answer your question? Thank you. Any other questions? Yes please. Maybe I can talk about that tomorrow because it will be a little detailed.
They are basically subcategories of analysing. I will talk about it tomorrow. Any other questions? Yes please.
Yeah, that’s a challenge. In a negotiation state we don’t feel afraid to do that. Yeah.
Fear has a positive role and a negative role also. Fear can be a protector. If you say if a child is leaning out of a n-storey building window and a child feels no fear and the parents will be in great fear.
What are you doing? Come out. So fear can be a protector. In that sense fear is not bad but fear can also be a, you could say a repressor.
So that because of fear we don’t, on one side because of fear we will not do something that is dangerous. But because of fear we may also not do something that is desirable. So what is a reasonable way to deal with it is that we try to have at least some devotees with whom we have a good relationship where we can express ourselves.
Even if it is not directly with our authorities. And then sometimes okay, I feel I can’t do it but maybe it is just I am being sentimental and maybe I can do it. I don’t know.
So if we talk with somebody who is maybe equal and then they say that okay this is going to be tough. I understand why you feel like that. But then if we get some perspective like that also then we might also be able to understand and express ourselves better.
And then we can present our case more reasonably. Because ultimately it is we who have to apply it. And it is like suppose somebody goes to a doctor and before they sit on the doctor’s on the patient’s seat doctor says okay, you take this medicine, you take this medicine, you take this medicine.
Hey, but I didn’t tell you my symptoms. No, I already know your symptoms. Now even if the doctor is expert enough to understand your symptoms by just observing the patient in a few moments but still unless the patient is convinced that the doctor has understood my symptoms, the patient may not take the medicine.
Even if the medicine is right. The same way, if we feel we can’t do something and still we say, we don’t say it then eventually we won’t be able to do it very well. And even if we don’t do it we will be resentful about it.
So then the connection with Krishna will not develop so much. So we may have to find out the appropriate way to express that by which we don’t come off as being disrespectful or rejecting their authority. But there is each one of us has to find our space by which we can practise bhakti sustainably.
And it’s it can also be gradual. It doesn’t have to be like a sudden rejection. It can also be a gradual reorientation.
Now I am doing this service just like say if somebody is a preacher. Now I have travelled, there are different kinds of preachers in the sense that there are some devotees who are crowd pullers. They like to do big programmes and they can get people and they can magnetise an audience.
And some devotees are educators. They are not interested in jokes to entertain or something like that. They want to go deep into Shastra.
So now we see that those who are educators, they might be best suited for teaching something like Bhakti Shastra to serious devotees. They are not really interested in going out to new people. And some people who are who are more like charismatic crowd pullers, if you ask them some technical question about Shastra, they they are not the right person to answer that question.
So what happens is all of them are preaching but they have found out their niche audience. I want to teach but I will teach Shastra. I want to teach new people.
So like that it needn’t be that somebody rejects rejects this and goes to something else. It can be a gradual orientation. This is reorientation.
This is what I want to focus on. And gradually if you do it then it will not come off as a rejection also. That’s also one way we can do it.
Sometimes it’s more in our mind that of course one more factor is that sometimes if a particular service is absolutely needed and there is nobody to do it then if we do it as a service, we will also grow spiritually by that. But then that shouldn’t be a constant situation where we have to do something which is incompatible to us just because it’s a need. It has to be a gradual adjustment.
So occasionally doing something because it’s needed that’s fine but regularly doing something that we are not compatible with that will burn us out One devotee told me that all of you know pakodas? It’s Indian but I suppose it’s made by devotees. When people come new, we feed them fried pakodas. But when they become devotees, we fry them like pakodas.
So we need to give some space to devotees also. Any other questions? Yes, please. If there, what is intense? Faith.
Yeah. How do we balance it? Let me see if I understand your question. What you are saying is somebody has deep faith in the lord but then and they just want to naturally express it.
Whereas in a community there are a lot of injunctions about how to things. So those injunctions are you saying they come in the way of that person’s devotion or why is the balancing between the two needed? Yeah. So the injunctions come in the way of this person’s practise of bhakti, is that what you are saying? Okay.
So if there are injunctions which come in the way of the natural expression of devotion for somebody with deep faith, what can be done? There is for all of us, there is a personal space in which we practise bhakti and there is a public sphere in which we practise bhakti. So now in our personal space what we do, it is we don’t have to make a show of that to others. It’s like suppose suppose somebody comes to you and says yesterday Krishna came in my dream.
Now can Krishna come in our dream? Who are going to stop Krishna from coming? If Krishna wants, obviously he can come. Krishna can come in anyone’s dream. But if Krishna has come in the dream, that’s wonderful.
But the point is that our spiritual advancement depends not so much whether Krishna comes in our dream or not. It depends on what we do after we wake up. Because, see what happens is why is it like that? Because spiritual advancement is more a matter of exercise of our free will to move towards Krishna.
And in the dream we don’t exercise free will. More or less. Dream just come and we respond in some way to it.
Sometimes people say, oh it was like a dream. The meaning over there was so wonderful. Everything went so wonderfully.
But if you actually analyse, even in our dreams, we are not the complete controllers. Things happen in our dream, oh this happened and I went there and this happened and that happened. In some dreams we are just observers and things happen.
And in some dreams we are participators. But still, in no dream are we the complete controllers. So the point I am making is what happens in a dream, usually there is no conscious exercise of our free will.
So what happens in a dream is if Krishna is coming in the dream, that’s Krishna’s mercy. And that’s wonderful. Our spiritual advancement will depend on how we are acting consciously when we have the opportunity to exercise our free will.
So if somebody has got Krishna coming in their dream, then that’s wonderful. But they don’t have to go and tell the whole world, oh Krishna came in my dream, therefore I am a pure devotee. Offer obeisances to me now.
Not like that. Okay, it’s Krishna’s mercy, that’s wonderful. We might tell it to one or two devotees who we are very close to.
So if Krishna has come in our dream, that’s in our personal space. We can have our reciprocation with Krishna, being grateful to Krishna and that’s nice. But in the public sphere we can practise bhakti like others.
So each one of us may have say a particular inspiration in our bhakti. And because all of us are individuals, so we all will have our individuality expressed in bhakti. So for example, in the altar, we might have Prabhupada, we might have our spiritual master, we might have Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Nityananda Prabhu, we might have not might have, we have all of these, Radha Krishna, all of them.
Now somebody might feel especially attracted to one of these personalities. I know devotees who just feel such a bond with Nityananda Prabhu. They feel Nityananda Prabhu is very merciful.
So I know some devotees who have memorised sections and sections of Chaitanya Bhagwat where prayers are being offered to Nityananda Prabhu and they constantly recite that. And it’s wonderful. But if in the temple, when the normal programme is going on, they say, why do we need to have all the other prayers? Let’s all have prayers to Nityananda Prabhu.
No, if that’s your personal inspiration, that’s wonderful. But there is a standard process and there is no need to minimise that standard process. Oh, you know, Nityananda Prabhu is most merciful.
Somebody else may say that, actually Radharani is the way to Krishna. So let’s pray to Radharani. And if you please Radharani, then Krishna will be pleased.
It’s true. But if that’s the personal inspiration, yes, you can offer more prayers to Radharani, learn some bhajans about Radharani. So that’s in our personal space.
So in Bhakti, you could say there are principles and there are preferences. Preferences, what I personally like, what I feel inspired by. So, we needn’t impose our preferences on others.
But we don’t have to also abandon our preferences. That’s our individuality. So in our personal space, we can practise bhakti according to our preferences.
So, of course, if it is something which is significantly different from what everyone else is doing, then it is good to at least inform some senior devotee who is like-minded, so that we can have their guidance about how to go about doing that. But there is no need to necessarily see the two as contradictory. It’s not that our particular inspiration bhakti has to go against the injunction for everyone else.
We don’t have to reject the injunction for others. But we don’t have to necessarily think that that injunction is restrictive for us. If we have a personal inspiration bhakti, we can see that as a gift of Krishna to us.
But that doesn’t mean that is a gift that we’re going to work for everyone. Or that everyone has to do it. Whenever I take darshan, I like to recite some Sanskrit verses.
Brahma Samhita or Bhagavatam prayers or something like that. That connects. Just looking, I’m not so much a visual person.
I’m more of a verbal person. So when I utter the words, that’s when this is the Lord. This is the Lord over here.
That’s when I feel connected. So I spoke this in a class once. When we are taking darshan, we can recite some verses.
So sometimes at one time I was doing, now I’ve become too lazy. I would memorise one verse every day, one prayer, and offer that prayer to Krishna whenever I take darshan. So I was doing that for some time.
So then I just spoke that in the class. And then after, and I spoke that after a few days, one devotee came and told me that actually earlier when I was taking darshan, I would just hear the Govinda, Madhipurusha. It filled my heart with devotion.
But now you told me to memorise verses. So when I go in front of Krishna, I’m in so much tension that in front of Krishna, I forget the verse. So I told you, I did not say this as something which you should do.
I said this as an example of how you can be personally resourceful or creative in finding out how best you connect with Krishna. So if the Govinda, Madhipurusha itself is connecting with Krishna, then there’s no need for you to memorise the verses separately. So we can have our personal inspiration in our personal space.
And in the public sphere, we go along with what everyone else is doing. Does that answer your question? So thank you very much.