Maturity in relationships – Four principles – QA

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this devotee has 10 or questions so we will resume some question answers and then we will move on to third and fourth sessions depending on how we have time so I think we can move faster if you write down the questions that way we can address them as possible so if occasionally someone is behaving in an odd way that can be accepted occasional somebody is regularly whenever they need something at the only time they come to us otherwise they don’t pay attention to us they don’t care for us what do we do at that time that’s a practical challenge different people are of different natures and if somebody comes to us just to get something from us then we have to see what exactly they are asking from us and if that is something which we can contribute wherein it is not very difficult for us in general if we see that we have relationship with the other person and we have relationship with Krishna so sometimes when we relate with someone we are reciprocating with that person and we expect them also to reciprocate but the nature of the world is we have horizontal relationship with others and vertical relationship with Krishna so ultimately by serving everyone whoever we are serving we are actually serving Krishna and whoever offers us some care some affection, some support some shelter it is Krishna who is offering us shelter through them so in some relationships in every relationship there is some contribution and there is some expectation that is how reciprocation occurs but some relationships may be such that in them our contribution is more and the reciprocation is less in some relationships our contribution may be very little their reciprocation may be a lot so this variation will be there as long as it doesn’t in itself strain or agitate us there is no problem in doing that sometimes in some relationships you have to invest more in some relationships we get more of returns that’s how life is the overall balance is such that if we give love and service we will get love and service but we may not always get it exactly from the same person sometimes we want a little reciprocation like some person no matter how much we try won’t get it but some others we are just a little affectionate to them and they reciprocate so much with us so if it is not straining us too much then we can see that this is a relationship in which primarily I am doing this as a service to Krishna now if they are coming to us approaching us for something which is primarily a service to Krishna then there is no problem if something is which they need personally for their health and if it is going to take a lot of energy from us, lot of time from us then we can say that maybe I can help at this frequency I have other things to do also we are specifically generally saying no to anyone is never pleasant but if we are not saying no to say less important things we have finite time only so we end up saying no to more important things so generally whenever we have to say no if we already have something else which is there say somebody invites us for a programme and we don’t want to go for the programme say there is some social engagement, friends are calling there is a party, let’s go we may not want to go but to say no is not that easy but if at that same time we already have some other programme say no actually I am busy I am not going to go to the school so I can’t come saying no becomes easier so in general if we have a yes for something more important burning within us then saying no to some things becomes easier we are finite beings and we cannot keep saying yes to everyone all the time so we have to learn to say no but we can say no in a way that doesn’t come off as a rejection for that person it is just a limitation of our situation because of which we can’t help but in the name of service we can’t let ourselves be taken for a ride when people simply use us and exploit us in the long run sometimes some judgments turn out to be right and some judgments are required for the safety of our family and our welfare for not just biological family but also spiritual family there is a difference between judgement and non-judgement judgement is required for example if we are driving a car and another person is driving a car now we want to take a turn can we take a turn in the time before that car comes across that’s a judgement so there is an objective state of reality if a roof is unclean then it’s unclean, that’s a judgement and then it needs to be cleaned so from a judgement is basically a valuation of a situation value judgement is more of a affixing of a label to a person and then that percolates all our relationships and actually becoming judgemental is more than just having value it means that we treat a person disrespectfully or dismissively or negatively because of a label that we have affixed to them whether the label is true or not that’s a different issue some people may have certain limitations and that needs to be acknowledged but that doesn’t mean that we have to harp on it or we have to speak about it it’s like say if we meet someone who has a scar on their face now we can’t say there is no scar over there we can’t not see the scar but in polite society you won’t talk about the scar you won’t label the person based on their scars so like that some people have some limitations especially if we are working with them and their limitations are going to create some problems for us say some people are habitually forgetful and then we have to get something important and we know they are going to forget it certain things cannot be counted for so that can be acknowledged as a limitation of weakness of that person without necessarily making that person feel bad about it and without letting that make us look down on that person see all of us have limitations so with a little conduct of life we also understand I am not really very good at this so we also acknowledge I am not that good let somebody else take it up so in that sense we cannot go when I said that I did the thought experiment closing our eyes with our hands it’s one thing that we don’t want to we don’t want our judgments to cloud our vision but we don’t want lack of judgement to blind us also having no judgement can also be a problem but what it is that we don’t become judgemental in the sense of we don’t think of ourselves as superior and demean the other person we are all serving Krishna we all have our limitations and we all have to work with our limitations so if somebody is not particularly good at things some people are outstanding at something and some people are outstandingly poor at something if somebody is outstandingly poor then obviously that responsibility can’t be entrusted to them but that can be done in a graceful way by which they don’t have to feel demeaned but the service can go on with somebody who is competitive in that if somebody argues with us a lot especially if they are younger and they think they are doing right what do we do? yeah broadly speaking with respect to people who are argumentative they may fall in three categories one is some people are intelligent and they need to be convinced about it and sometimes the same reasoning that convinces us may not convince them because they may be thinking from a different perspective so if somebody is having a lot of questions, they are very logical analytical now argumentative itself is a judgemental word but it is a back and forth some people have intellectual needs and sometimes we may not have those needs and we may not be the right person to fulfil their needs also so even if we happen to be a senior they want some intellectual understanding so maybe some other devotees were intellectuals we connect them with them and then their intellectual needs will be fulfilled over there so that is where there is a genuine need for them and some people see bhakti is a process of the heart and we also want to engage the head in Krishna sense, we want to understand the philosophy and then practise it but for some people who are intellectual the only way to the heart is through the head for some people there are two tracks you can appeal to their head also for some people there is no head only heart but some people their head very zealously blocks the way to their heart so the only way that they will invest an emotion in something is in their intellectual needs and they may need that so sometimes it is just that we may not be the right person to fulfil their needs it is not as if they are wrong and we are right it is just that they have a particular need which needs to be fulfilled through different devotees some devotees are more intellectual than others and we connect them with some intellectual devotees who can fulfil their needs that is one situation the other is where somebody just they have come with a particular understanding they think they are right and we have some more experience, we have some more knowledge and we can see the shortcoming with their idea so at that time it depends on what is our relationship with them just because we are senior and they are younger doesn’t necessarily mean that they are going to accept our authority it is that if we have been their spiritual guide or if they we cannot expect that because I am senior you should respect me but it may not work out like that because they may feel I have studied this subject better or I know this better so that if we are in a position of authority and we have to make a decision we have to use our wisdom to make the decision and that way we may explain to them they accept it or they don’t accept it but if they are taking up a responsibility for some service and we can see that what they are doing is not the best they are doing it some other way so in general if they are taking the responsibility of doing it right they will also learn by doing it wrong so what happens is there are two things over here there is our relationship with them and the course of action sometimes we feel this is not the right thing to do I don’t want to convince them but sometimes some people just have to learn by experience and in trying to convince them this is not the right thing this is a wrong thing we may force them to accept our view but that may ruin our relationship with them sometimes when they go through they may go on a basis they do something, they do it wrong and then they learn from it and they think in future when I have to do let me take some more guidance from those who have experience and then work so in general unless the service is of a very very critical nature that is going to influence a lot of people sometimes people who are asserting they just need their room and now broadly speaking when we work in an institution or work with an institution there are two possibilities now we can either have freedom or we can have facility it is generally very difficult to have both freedom means ok I want to do this programme I want to take this subject I want to take people in this way I want to do this this this now if we wanted to think in a particular way which is different from say the vision of the leaders of the community then we may be given the freedom to do that but then we can’t expect facility for that the facility, this is the leaders of the institution and they will use the facility according to their vision they have their experience they have their inspiration and they will use it so if somebody wants facility then they have to compromise they have to give up the freedom you can get this facility but you don’t think this this this so the problem comes when we want both facility and freedom it doesn’t happen like that so for some people the need for freedom is more and let them have that freedom if they are taking the responsibility if they are putting in the resources some mistake happens then we learn from it but if we are in the leadership position and we are given the facility then we can to some extent put our foot down and say this is how things should be done and this will not work because of this this and this so in general it’s best not to not to come off heavily against people saying that you don’t know, I know in general, the seniority, juniority it should be implicit if in a relationship somebody has to tell I am senior to you, you listen to me that means it’s already that that person is not accepting that authority that should be implicit if it is not implicit, explicitly stating it simply makes things makes things a little too domineering and artificial and everybody goes through their learning experiences I think Mark Twain said that when I was 15 my father was a fool now I am 25 and I am amazed how much the old guy has learned in 10 years the father learned in 10 years the son got the experience you see that what the father was saying was not all wrong, it was right sometimes you just have to go through experience to learn certain things in a conflict situation to dig out the past background of another person without self-reflection without owning the problem is it not judgemental how do we ourselves understand if we need to self-reflect or assert it ultimately when we do an activity it is an intention that matters when a doctor does a when a doctor is going to treat a patient the doctor needs to know the case study case history of the patient what are the diseases you have had if you have this disease then this medicine will be contraindicated you cannot take this medicine so the patient needs to know the background the background is so that the doctor can treat the patient right now properly some people may want to ferret the background of a person so that they can defend the person or whatever most important for us is the service attitude so if you want to know the background of a person we have to first of all introspect why do I want to know about it if we are working closely with someone then it is important that we understand each other because then if we understand then we can in the situation this person will do like this and then there is in every relationship there has to be at least some foundation of predictability if there is 100% predictability then it becomes almost robotic I know if I say this they want to say this if I do this they want to do that so 100% predictability will make the relationship too mechanical too robotic but 100% unpredictability is also robotic so it is like walking in an area filled with landmines what we do what are we going to call an explosion we don’t do so there has to be a certain foundation of predictability and within that there can be some unpredictability so if our purpose is to serve that person or to serve with that person and for that purpose we want to understand better what is happening how they function then looking for the background is not wrong it is and that can also be done in a healthy way generally speaking people become ready to share about their past if we are ready to share about our past often when people are going to speak about their past they may be able to reveal their weaknesses so if we also share some of our weaknesses, some of our difficulties some of our vulnerabilities then basically when we interact with each other there are different modes all of us have some things in our heart which we want to guard it is not because they are secret it is also because they are sensitive you don’t want to be hurt by it so often when we interact with each other sometimes we come with armour around each other I have some armour around me you have some armour around you and then slowly as we start trusting each other we start letting the guard down so if we want to know about someone that means we want them to let their guard down we have to let our guard down first so if we share something from our life and then they share something and then we share something deeper that way we understand each other better if we unilaterally expect especially if we are not in the position of a counsellor, counselling or authority and support, then if we expect unilaterally the other person to share then that might be intrusive but overall if the service attitude is there then for our service to Krishna we want to know about the background of a person and sometimes for our service to Krishna we want to know about ourselves also so that we can know why we act in particular ways in particular situations if any of the questions in case I have not been able to understand properly then you can raise your hand and you can tell me I try to understand my best sometimes I had these kind of question answers after that I noticed that my actual question was this then I am happy to answer I can answer the question which I understand also but I would like to answer the question which you have not just the question which I have understood so if there is a situation like this please raise your hand and clarify the question how should we do service without becoming proud or without doing it for our self pleasure first thing is just keep doing the service because if we start worrying too much about that generally first we have to become devotees then we can become pure devotees first we have to start our connection with Krishna say suppose somebody can sing very nicely and then they think if I sing well then people will praise me I will become proud therefore I will not sing but then what happens singing is a necessary service in the community somebody else sings and then that person sings nicely and then everybody glorifies how nicely they sing then what happens see for us when we think that I will become proud that is an illusion because that means to think that I will become proud means I am already proud why? because I am so proud that I think I don’t have any pride all of us already have pride within us but it is just that we don’t have any reason to express that pride we are not anything special by which we can exhibit that pride it is like say lust is there in everyone when the prouder stimuli comes then lust gets surfaced otherwise it stays in the background same way so all of us have pride within us and so we want a sense of recognition we want a sense of appreciation and if we don’t do something which will give that sense of recognition and appreciation then when somebody else gets that recognition and appreciation our pride will come out of the individual he sings so nicely have you seen how much he hits? have you seen how much he hits? what does that mean? he is trying to put down that person so that is basically envy coming out so if we have been given some talent we just use it in Krishna’s service and gradually purification will increase so in general we cannot start a service with entirely pure intention we have some desire for appreciation some desire for God there is a disciple of Prabhupada who sings very nicely so he was in the same temple he was in the temple doing kirtan when Prabhupada came there when Prabhupada was going to take darshan Prabhupada just tapped him on his shoulder nice kirtans Prabhupada told him he said this is my only opportunity Prabhupada Prabhupada sometimes I feel proud Prabhupada just tapped him so what’s wrong with that? what’s wrong with that? you say pride is a devotee what do you mean what’s wrong with that? what Prabhupada was saying is that actually if we have pride within us we can’t wish it away it is better that we do something which will give us praise and glorification in devotee community otherwise that pride will make us seek recognition and glorification in the non-devotee community and often to do that we will have to become materialistic we will have to do anti-devotional activities so gradually as we keep serving Krishna after sometime we will recognise that that actually serving Krishna gives more satisfaction than the praise that I get for serving Krishna so we keep singing for Krishna then after I sing people say I can see some satisfaction but over a period of time we start thinking that service to Krishna gives more satisfaction one of my dreams before I was introduced to Krishna Maharshi is also that I wanted to be a public speaker and I had a desire to speak in public but I had no ideas to speak in public so my first public speech that I gave before I was in a location competition and I spoke and in general I have a conditioning that I speak fast and when I become nervous my speed increases so at that time I was giving a speech and I had prepared a 7 minute speech and I started off very fast so the audience they were looking here and there and I started looking here and there I thought why are you not paying attention so I thought if I speak faster you will pay more attention so I started being faster and I started looking here and there more and my 7 minute speech I finished in 3 minutes then I didn’t know what to do so when I started giving classes after I became a Pramachari I started sharing so with that desire I wanted to be a public speaker and then I would prepare classes very nicely and then speak in an organised way and then after the class when somebody would praise I would feel so happy at that time then one time I prepared I prepared very well for a class and then I delivered the class also very well it was probably one of the best classes both in terms of content and delivery till then I had it many years ago and then after that not a single person appreciated it not even one so I was feeling so exasperated and then as I was thinking the class got over sometimes everybody is waiting to go out of the class so then I was wondering what happened I was feeling a little annoyed and then it struck me that actually when I was preparing for the class I was absorbed and I was happy when I was delivering the class that time also I was absorbed I was happy but it was after the class got over when nobody praised me I was feeling so dissatisfied so even if somebody had appreciated that is a few moments of appreciation but if I focus on Krishna Katha then that absorption is much more intuitive now this in a realisation I can call it a realisation I got it many many years after Stephen Lord Krishna if I had decided that till I am purified of the desire to be a public speaker then I will start public speaking I will never get that realisation so generally we just start doing service and as we do service we connect with Krishna and over a period of time we start realising that connection with Krishna actually gives more satisfaction than the recognition for the service and that’s how the pride we get purified of it of course if somebody is becoming obnoxious just like one devotee he came to temple and he said you know nobody else knows Kirtan over here he was a very trained singer so he said nobody knows singing so all Kirtans from today onwards I will do so Mangal Aarti, Tulsi Aarti, Darshan Aarti Guru Puja, all Kirtans I will do you cannot do like that everybody is here to say you might be a very good singer but that doesn’t mean you can monopolise all the Kirtans so if somebody becomes that obnoxious and that’s too domineering most devotees are not like that gradually by the process of bhakti itself we become purified if in a couple one person likes to discuss and understand things, analyse situations and be heard and understood but the other person doesn’t want to do that doesn’t have much patience because they don’t feel inclined to do this the first person feels frustrated because other person is not listening so what to do? yes some people they like to sit and discuss some people they are fixated people solve the problem ok what exactly is the problem? ok this is the solution but sometimes people have not come for a solution they have come just to be heard that is their view so in social psychology these are called as love languages love languages means different people feel love in different ways some people if you give them some gifts they feel very valued a father will feel I will get the most expensive toy for my child and father will say I am expensive I will offer my child a very expensive cricket bat, expensive cricket ball etc I will offer my child but the child may just want to play with the father it doesn’t need that expensive toy child just needs some time with the father so generally speaking when we interact with each other we can observe we need to learn about each other now what is it that if we do for someone they feel very happy about it they express a lot of appreciation and what is it that if we don’t do they complain a lot about it by that we can understand that this thing is important for them so some people just need some gifts and that’s what they feel oh you value me some people just need time some people need practical service to be done for them you do this, you do this that’s what they feel some people may have different personal needs so in general when two people are interacting so some people one partner needs to be heard but other person wants to do things you tell me what is the problem I will solve it for you so if this is the case both of them have to come to a more harmonious understanding that means the person who has a need to be heard they will understand that this is my need but this is not the way this person is wired so I cannot expect this a lot from them so we try to find some other friends some other people in the community who like to discuss things and then then they will feel valued and connected now having said that if two people are in a close relationship both of them have to adjust so the person who has a need for being heard they will need it fulfilled to some extent and the person who is more like an action person I will do things for you but I will do things back to you not just sit and talk then they have to be a little bit more ready to hear so this person has to decrease their need for hearing I need it to hear and understand no can get it from somewhere else and this person we have to become a little more ready to to hear so basically if you understand that different people have different natures then we won’t feel that the other person is rejecting us or we don’t feel that the other person is demanding too much from us this is just the way people are when I came to Jodhpuri temple one of the senior devotees told me if you want to talk if you want to get anything done if you need anything done come to me if you want to talk, go to that person he told me in the beginning I would have time to talk with you I used to have a lot of philosophical questions the first time I came to I travelled with one senior devotee he said can I ask some questions I said yes then I took out a notebook 20 pages are filled with questions he said this will take a lifetime to answer so he answered for about 2, 1, 1.5 hours and then he said let me discuss something else some devotees I know few questions why do you have so many questions I said what do you mean why do you have I have, I can’t do anything I have those questions so now devotees who have questions I try to spend time with them so there are senior devotees who fulfil my need for question answers now I try to fulfil that need for those devotees who have that so sometimes if we have particular needs we have to understand that it is our need it is not the other person’s responsibility to fulfil our need in fact this was what I was going to talk in the last session but I’ll mention it here now see another aspect of maturity is maturity means to understand that no one is obliged to fulfil our need maturity means to understand that no one is obliged to fulfil our need that doesn’t mean that the need will not be fulfilled but no one is obliged to fulfil it just like a small baby the baby feels hungry I need food and the baby starts crying and the baby accepts the mother or the father somebody will come running and feed him now if an adult feels hungry adult will not start crying when adult starts crying nobody may come also now hunger is an equally important need for a baby and an adult but the difference between baby and adult is the baby simply starts crying and expects to be fed and adult takes responsibility I’m hungry, what should I do? I have to cook or I have to go out and buy something or I’ll go and eat somewhere it’s my responsibility to have my need fulfilled so immaturity means hoisting our need as a demand of someone else so when we do that it’s our need and it needs to be fulfilled but when we make our need into a demand of someone else that is a sign of immaturity they are a separate person even if they are in a close relationship with us they have their own mind, their own nature and if they are fulfilling that need for us, that is good but we can’t demand it from them so if we have a particular need then we have to find out how best we can get it fulfilled that’s why we need not just association we need like-minded association to the extent we have like-minded association that means we have similar needs and those needs can be fulfilled nicely in that association so what if a person is wrong but they are not accepting that they are wrong and they are immature and blaming others and arguing and blaming what if they have closed all doors of communication yes, sometimes we all go through phases and sometimes when we are hurt there is one principle hurt people hurt people when people are hurt themselves, they hurt others and sometimes when people are hurt they feel I don’t want to be hurt again so they just cut off everyone so sometimes when we are hurt we just want to protect ourselves and protection protection comes out as aggression our desire to protect ourselves comes out as aggression towards others so sometimes some people just need some time to heal just like say somebody is physically wounded at that time they are physically wounded let’s say somebody’s hand is fractured then the fractured hand when they try to lift a weight, they can’t lift a weight so what do you do at that time you have to let the hand let the hand rest it will heal sometimes when somebody is hurt they may be in a phase where they will just be complaining, blaming, ranting and that’s a phase so sometimes they will go through that phase and you don’t have to be judgemental you are committing offence that’s a phase which people have to vent out it’s best that they vent out not in public to everyone but just to some close people but if they are venting out in public you just turn off we can’t do much about that when people are hurt their emotions are so dominant at that time that they can’t listen to reason over a period of time that hurt subsides and then gradually good self returns so when people are emotionally wounded they might do some things and if they are damaging the whole community if they are hurting if they are doing a very serious thing then we have to find out if there is some senior authority whom they will listen to some spiritual master, some spiritual guide and we inform them but otherwise we have to be understanding of it when people are wounded sometimes they just go through some phases and it’s ok we don’t have to make it into a very big issue so once we come to accept and assert does that mean we are functioning in the mode of goodness not necessarily it means at least we have every mode has contemplation and action so the contemplation is taking in information from the world action is acting in the world so the contemplation has come to the mode of goodness but action is what we are going to discuss in a later part so we have to take in information properly and act properly then we come to the mode of goodness if we are acting thoughtfully if we are acting sensitively acting in the mode of service to Krishna then that is not just the mode of goodness but you are going to pure goodness also so again if there is any question I have not understood, please let me know and I can answer it properly ok I will answer this question later because that’s part of the last part it’s also a contemplation so if our acceptance is not helping the other person then how does accepting help me first of all before we can help anyone we have to help ourselves accepting is simply about ensuring that we are not wasting our energy in internal battles it’s only after that we can help others so if say somebody is doing something wrong it doesn’t mean that whatever they are doing we are going to accept that and we are going to continue that we have to take some action to correct it also I will talk about that a little later but the important thing is we become a good arsis to deal with the situation it’s more of our internal battle and then how to help the other person that can be discussed a little later so should we have a little break and then we can start the third and fourth sessions it will be 10-15 minutes so maybe 4 or 4-5 we will start and then I will cover both the sessions, last two parts in one session if you have any questions we will take at that time thank you very much