Nourishing the creeper of devotion 4 – Finding our spiritual stimuil

[Chaitanya Charitamrita class at ISKCON, London, UK]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna. So today morning we come to the concluding part of our discussion on nourishing the creeper of devotion. So till now I have talked about in the first session how when we are practising bhakti the metaphor of a gardening creeper is used to describe how by our practise of bhakti we can develop love of God.
And for this we also took the metaphor of a channel of water. So we want the water of our emotions of our consciousness to move towards Krishna. And while doing that if the water starts flowing in other directions then it will not move towards Krishna.
So I talked in the first session how we might just be religious but not spiritual. When we do the activities of bhakti it’s like building the channel but we don’t direct our heart towards Krishna. We don’t offer our emotion to Krishna.
In the second session I talked about how while practising bhakti we may not sometimes feel inspired to or we may get more attached to the things that help us to serve Krishna such as worldly things which are favourable to devotion but more attachment to them can also be problematic. In yesterday’s session I talked about how even renunciation can become an attachment which can obstruct us. Today I’ll conclude by talking about what will inspire us to make sure that the water of our consciousness of our emotions flows towards Krishna.
What is required for that? So in this verse it is described that Prema Pumartho Mahan. Love for Krishna is the supreme goal of life. Pumartho or Purushartho.
Artha, the word Artha has different meanings in Sanskrit. Artha can mean meaning. What is the Artha of this? What is the meaning of this? Artha can also mean value.
Like in India the finance minister is called Artha Mantri. And Artha can also mean purpose. For what purpose is this being done? So meaning, purpose and value.
All these are the meanings of the word Artha. And Purushartha means that which gives meaning, purpose and value to life. So what is life meant for? All of us have certain ideas of what I want to achieve in my life.
Maybe we want to achieve some financial prosperity, we want a social position, we want a good family, we want various things in life. And these purposes of our life are what drive us. When people sometimes become suicidal, it is not just because they have so many problems in their life.
It is rather they have no purpose left in their life because of which they will want to fight the problems. Everybody has problems. In fact if we set up a lofty goal in our life, somebody decides I want to become an Olympic gold medallist.
Then there are so many problems. You have to qualify at the state level, national level, you have to be fit enough, you have to make the right contacts, you have to perform well enough. And for each of these there are obstacles.
But the purpose is that I want to do this. So purpose helps us to overcome obstacles. Problems are always there, but the strength of our purpose pushes through the problems.
If a vehicle is moving very slowly and then if a car is moving slowly and then because of a storm, a tree has fallen along the way. The car will come and car will stop because of the tree. But there is a big truck and the truck is moving very fast.
And if it sees the log, the truck will be moving very fast and by its momentum, just knock over the fallen tree and move on. So our purpose creates momentum. Once we have purpose, then it gives us a momentum, it gives us a force.
So the problems are like the log that has fallen, the tree that has fallen. And the purpose is like the moving vehicle with momentum. Everybody will have problems in their lives.
But the problems overwhelm us when we feel my life itself doesn’t have any purpose. So if somebody’s whole life is centred around their family and then the family breaks apart or in an accident they lose their family. What am I living for? If somebody lived, so they wanted to become a software engineer and then suddenly they lose their job.
What am I living for? So all of us have certain purposes in our life. And broadly these purposes, the Bhagavatam and the Vedic scriptures say that it’s centred on four things. Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha.
Dharma is religiosity. Now, if the overall society is pious, then people want to look good in society. Religiosity can at one sense mean doing specific religious rituals.
You say, who will want to do religious rituals? That’s not a purpose of life. Yes, if it’s in a society where people are pious, then being religious is respected. In the Bhagavad Gita, in the 16th chapter, Krishna says how even the demoniac people perform religious activities.
Atma-sambhavita-stabdha-dhanamana-madanvita-yajante-naam-yajyainste-dambhe-naam-vidhi-poorvakam It says in 16.16 and 17 that they perform yajna for what purpose? They don’t perform yajna of naam. They don’t chant the holy names. They perform yajna for naam.
They say they do yajna so that they can get name and fame. Oh, what a pious person he is. So, respectability is one dharma.
If we come through appearing pious, appearing virtuous, that is dharma, one purpose. But the real crux of most materialistic people’s lives is the next two purusharthas, Artha and Kama. People want wealth.
And then through that they want to get pleasure. So, Sri Prabhupada says if people can get Artha and Kama without dharma, then they feel what is the need for dharma? Then they just give up the pursuit of dharma and they are just satisfied with Artha and Kama. So, now dharma, Artha, Kama and then when there is a lot of desire for enjoyment, one gets enjoyment.
After that, there is a desire, I just want to get out of this, Moksha. Moksha at ultimate level means liberation from material existence. At a circumstantial level, sometimes people just have had enough of this.
See, there is the conflict in the mind, I want to live with the enjoyment, but I want to live without the entanglement. So, it just doesn’t work. Sometimes people say, I just want to quit it.
Sometimes in sports, some players may be at the top level in success and suddenly they announce retirement. I’ve had enough, I’m exhausted now. I don’t want to go through this grind.
Means people work in companies and suddenly they are just, enough now, I just want to retire. So, Moksha ultimately means liberation. Circumstantially, it can also mean for us freedom from misery, freedom from entanglement.
I just don’t want to be involved in this. So now, in today’s world, the tendency for Moksha also comes out in the aversion to commitment. People don’t want to commit themselves to relationships.
They want to live together. Because they don’t want any entanglement. We live together and if it doesn’t work out, you go your way, I’ll go my way.
So, no entanglement. So, that tendency, basically, Kama and Moksha are two sides of the same coin. We want to get pleasure and we want to avoid pain.
So, Moksha means freedom from pain. So, these are Purusha, these are what everybody pursues in life. Religiosity and reputation, wealth and prosperity, pleasure and comfort and then freedom from entanglement and distress.
So, Dharma, Artha, Kama, Moksha are universal purposes that people have. Now, specifically, how they pursue it may vary. Somebody may think, I want to become a sports player.
Somebody may say, I want to become a business magnate. Somebody may say, I want to become an attorney. Everybody may have their different ways in which they do it.
But this is what people pursue. And it is this purpose that inspires them to work. So, when people become suicidal, it is often because their sense of purpose is lost.
There’s nothing worth living for. There’s nothing worth fighting for in life. Then why to go on struggling? Why to go on living? Now, this verse says, the Pancham Purushartha, the supreme goal of life is love for Krishna.
And as compared to this, everything else is significant. The same theme is talked about in the Bhagavad Gita also. yam labdhvā cāparamlābhaṁ manyate nādhikam tathaḥ yasmin sthitor duḥkhena gurunāpi vichālyate In 6.22, Krishna says, yam labdhvā, if you achieve this, paramlābhaṁ cāparamlābhaṁ manyate nādhikam tathaḥ having achieved this, there’ll be nothing more to achieve.
You won’t feel that there’s any greater gain than this. And yasmin sthitor, having me situated like this, then duḥkhena gurunāpi, even if great distress comes, na vichālyate, one will not be disturbed. So, Krishna says that by this, achieving this, the two things he says, one is that you’ll be satisfied.
There’ll be no more craving for anything else. And there’ll be no more lamenting about anything else. Oh, you know, this problem has come, that problem has come.
We all have certain purposes in our life. We can think, is there any purpose? I have many dreams in my life. Can I say that after fulfilment of that dream, there’ll be no more hankering and there’ll be no more lamenting.
In fact, this was one of the verses that inspired me most in the Bhagavad Gita. Actually, I was introduced to spiritual life because I was frustrated with success. I was an academic student, I was reasonably successful.
After I gave GRE, I came first in the whole of Maharashtra. I was first in the history of my college. I was very successful.
I thought I’d be very happy. But then I found there is no intrinsic happiness in just looking at the marks. Oh, you got such great marks.
It all depends on whether people come and congratulate you. And somehow it happened that one, two, three of my friends, one after another, just forgot to congratulate me. And when they forgot, at that time I started thinking, you know, the third time when it happened, I just became so agitated.
And as I was getting into that agitation, suddenly I sort of looked at myself from above and said, wait a minute. You thought this is going to make you happy. But instead of becoming happy, you have become more dependent for your happiness than others.
And that time I started thinking, OK, I can set up some other goal. I can use some other exam. I may do well in that also.
But is there any goal that can actually make me internally satisfied without dependent on externals? And then I realised all the goals that society had set for me, none of them would bring this inner fulfilment. During the course of our life, generally for most of us, our life trajectory is set. OK.
Our parents set it, our society sets it. OK, do this, do this, do this, do this. So and we just pursue that and we hope that it will lead us to happiness.
But will it? So we all have certain purposes for our life. But will any of the purposes that we set for ourselves, will they lead to a situation where we will be free from hankering and free from lamenting? Then when I read the Bhagavad Gita, what is the state Krishna is talking about? He is talking about the state of spiritual absorption. Absorption in spiritual reality.
yatra uparamate chittam niruddham yogasevaya yatra chaivatmanatmanam paschanatmanitushyati sukham atyantikam yathad buddhigrahaya mati indriyam Krishna says this is the ultimate happiness. Sukham atyantikam yathad. And this is experienced when you become completely absorbed in the spiritual level of reality.
So how do we become ultimately absorbed in spiritual level of reality? There are various levels. Somebody may think that I am Atma, somebody may think I am Brahman. All these are spiritual levels of realisation.
But the all supremely attractive spiritual reality is the all attractive supreme person Krishna. And we become absorbed in Krishna. That is when we can experience the supreme freedom from hankering and from lamenting.
So how do we develop? How do we become absorbed in Krishna? Absorption is a result of attraction. Without attraction, it’s very difficult to have absorption. Somebody might be watching, say, in India cricket is very, very mania almost for people.
Once I was at the airport and I had come out of the airport and I was going to a taxi stand. Along with the way, there was the TV where the cricket match was going on. And then there are people who are watching and the whole pavement, the whole pavement was blocked.
And some police had come and said, no, you cannot block this pavement. So they had moved back. But it was like the TV was at such an angle that if anybody would walk along that road, people would not be able to see.
So at that time I was trying to wait, wait, wait, wait. And I tried to wait, wait, wait, wait. And it was almost like 15 minutes I was waiting over there.
And even one moment somebody would walk through the gate, don’t, don’t, don’t. So it was like, and I was thinking how much absorbed they were in watching that match. You know, I was remembering the Gopis, they said, you know, if our eyes blink, then we can’t see Krishna for one moment.
So it’s a distorted version of that. Oh, if you come in between, we can’t see the cricket match for one moment. So there is, if there is so much attraction, oh, I don’t want to miss a single moment of the action over there.
So when that attraction is so much, then there is absorption. So even if somebody comes in between, don’t come in between. But as soon as they come also, OK, move aside.
Let me keep seeing. So to the extent there is attraction, there will be absorption. Now, of course, absorption can come in one more way also.
That is through concentration. Oh, that attraction means we’ll naturally, almost effortlessly get absorbed. But suppose we have to study for an exam.
And at that time, oh, there is some, somebody speaks somewhere. I’ll keep quiet. But if they’re not keeping quiet, somehow we’ll concentrate.
And say if the exam is just half an hour away, just memorising some formula, last moment, then it’s completely absorbed. So absorption can come either by attraction or it can come by, we could say, concentration, which comes from intention. In absorption, when there is attraction, there may not be an intention or intention.
It just gets absorbed. But through conscious intention, we can also cultivate absorption. So in the process of bhakti, we want to develop this love of God.
And love of God, here it is said that the pleasure of this is so great that all other pleasures become insignificant. Truna thulya. Truna is like a blade of grass.
Thulya is like. So if we are meeting some very important person and on the road nearby or on the floor nearby, some blade of grass is lying on the ground. We won’t even spare a glance for the blade of grass.
Our all eyes will be on that person. What are they doing? Let me spend some time with them. Let me talk with them.
So that when something is compared to a blade of grass, that means it is so insignificant as to not even be noticeable. For us in the conditioned stage, however, this doesn’t seem to be like that. No wealth, position, pleasure, worldly pleasure, they appear to be so much attractive.
And in fact, for materialistic people, they even consider that spiritual joys is simply an imagination. It’s not even the reality. In fact, there are some some atheistic scholars.
They say actually the so-called experience of spiritual ecstasy is not only an imagination, it’s a neurosis. It’s when a person breaks down emotionally. At that time, just as a person becomes schizophrenic, like that some people, these mystics, they become schizophrenic and they perceive some other reality.
So now they have no understanding of what they’re talking about or what they’re missing. Why? Because they have not experienced it at all. They are simply from the point of critical scholarship looking.
Why is this person such ecstasy? He must be mad. So Prabhupada gives the example that if somebody observes a bottle of ghee from outside or even touches the bottle of ghee from outside or even licks the bottle of ghee from outside, not ghee, sorry, honey, the bottle of honey from outside, they will not taste it at all. They will taste it only when they open the bottle of honey and drink it.
So similarly, just observing from outside, the whole idea of inexhaustible spiritual happiness can seem just like a fantasy. It can even seem like a neurosis. You must be mad because of which you are experiencing this.
And it’s interesting, actually Chaitanya Chaitanya Damodara also uses the word mad. It says Divya Onmar or Prem Onmar. Onmar means madness.
So the madness of love for Krishna or the divine madness. So from the perspective of ordinary reality, the person who is experiencing spiritual happiness seems like mad. So we could say this is our physical reality that we experience and this is spiritual reality.
So right now we, when we are sadhakas, we have some faith that there is spiritual reality and occasionally we have some experience of it. But those who are simply at the physical level of reality, they have no experience of it. So they may feel this is just mad.
What are you doing like this? But then people who are at the physical level of reality, they also go towards some other kind of madness. People go towards, say, they go towards a fictional reality. A fictional reality, some people may take alcohol and drugs and imagine that they are in another world where they are kings.
Or they may start watching entertainment. And in entertainment, what are they doing? Again, they are going from physical reality to some fictional reality. Now suppose a sports match is going on and people are going through a whole panorama of emotions.
While they are watching a cricket match or a sports match. And somebody else observes. What are they doing? What is this? You are just sitting here and you are looking at some TV screen, some screen.
What is this? You know, going through all these emotions. Oh, what is this? They could also appear like crazy, isn’t it? Sashila Prabhupada gave a famous lecture where he said that, you know, materialistic people say that spiritualists are mad. Spiritualists know that materialistic people are also having their own kind of madness.
So basically, in the material world, there was a survey done where people, what are people’s emotional states, especially in the developed world. They found that 5% of the time people are happy. 5% of the time people are unhappy.
And 90% of the time people are bored. So because they are bored, so they want some break from the board. And the way they seek break is by one of the most common ways is by entertainment.
So when they are looking for entertainment, at that time, as they get obsessed with the entertainment, it’s like they go mad. Just go mad at that time. From the objective perspective, why are you involved in so much emotions? What is going on? So basically, to be mad is the nature of the soul.
But what are we mad for? If you are not mad for Krishna, you will become mad for something in this world. And actually, in a sense, it’s only people who are mad that in the material perspective also achieve something wonderful. Suppose somebody is a scientist.
They want to make some discovery. They are constantly lost in thinking. What about this? What about that? What about that? Maybe this will work.
Maybe that will work. So in scientific circles, there is an anecdote about how one scientist was involved in making an invention. So he just told his colleague, now we are doing this experiment.
Now it will take about 2-3 hours to complete. In the meanwhile, let us go and we will do some New Year purchasing. His friend looked at him, his colleague.
It’s 4th of January today. So they say that this is how much science people get absorbed in it. New Year came and went and the scientist didn’t even know New Year came and went.
And this is considered, oh, this is how you should be absorbed in science. They recommend it like that. So my point is that in material life also people achieve something wonderful.
That is through absorption, which is like mania. Now, with respect to this madness, there can be madness in transcendence. There can be madness in ignorance.
There can be madness in passion. And there can be madness in goodness. So say, just smoking, drinking, wild, just obsessive entertainment.
That is madness and ignorance. Madness and goodness could be just pursuing ideas. Just completely absorbed.
I want to invent something. I want to develop something. Sometimes people get into art or music or creativity.
They just forget everything else. It’s absorbed, lost in it. So that’s madness and goodness, you could say.
But sometimes some people work very hard. I want to achieve this. And just forget everything else in the pursuit of work or pursuit of pleasure.
There’s a story of Bilvamangal Thakur, how he wanted to see a prostitute. And just forgot everything as a storm. He was not aware of that.
He actually took a dead body and used that as a boat to cross over. And to climb into her house, he used a rope, which actually turned out to be a snake. But he was mad after that.
So that was the time when Chintamani told him, if you had this kind of attraction for Krishna, you’d be liberated. So actually, to be mad is the nature of the soul. And the soul is mad for Krishna, then there is perfection.
But not knowing that, the soul finds something else to be mad about. And then they may pick up anything and everything, which is what they get obsessed about. Now, of course, sometimes in Tamoguna, when people are confused, there are so many objects, they don’t know which to be mad about.
And that makes them confused also. That may cause depression, that may cause mental problems. But essentially, the soul longs to be mad.
In a sense, if a truck is moving very fast, if there is a tree in between, just ram the truck into the tree, so that the tree is knocked over. It requires a certain amount of daredevilishness. But that comes when persons have to get there.
Nothing will come in my way. So that’s how, when there is a strong sense of purpose, a strong sense of purpose brings a kind of mania, brings a kind of madness. Which madness is really worth cultivating? So I was making the point that when we are practising bhakti, at that time, we don’t feel so inspired by Krishna as we feel attracted or captivated by worldly things.
In that context, I said there are these three modes of material nature and there is transcendence. So in each particular mode, a particular object or a particular set of objects will appear overwhelmingly attractive. So for a person in the mode of passion, wealth is what they want.
They want it at all costs. For a person in the mode of goodness, I want to understand this, I want to get this, I want to discover this, whatever it takes. So for us, when we are trying to practise bhakti, we are, although our goal is transcendental, we are still within the modes.
And depending on where we are within the modes, we will be attracted to certain things. So we won’t feel attracted to Krishna directly at this stage. We will be, if we are in the mode of ignorance, we’ll just be lost in our head.
The mode of passion, I want to do something. The mode of goodness, I want to understand this, I want to get this. That’s how it will be.
So the expertise of the path of bhakti is, wherever we are, it gives us an opportunity to connect our present mania with the ultimate mania. So Prabhupada said bhakti is so inclusive that somebody is an alcoholic and they can’t give up alcohol. Eventually Prabhupada writes in the book, On the Way to Krishna, that if they think that the taste of alcohol is Krishna, then in this way, by remembering Krishna, one day they will become a devotee of Krishna.
He is not saying by drinking alcohol they will become a devotee. No. But if they are not able to give up alcohol, they are drinking anyway.
Where is this attractiveness of alcohol coming from? It’s just a drink. That attractiveness is coming from Krishna. Krishna says, rasoham apsu kaunteya, I am the taste of water.
So the taste of water represents the taste of all liquids. So Krishna says that this is coming from him. And if we understand this point, then we can get attracted to Krishna thereby.
So that way, even in ignorance, somebody might be drinking and they might be dancing around the street, just lost. And what happens? If they see a kirtan going on, they start dancing in the kirtan also. They connect with Krishna over there.
The hippies love to do crazy things. They wanted to rebel against society. But then when Prabhupada started doing Harinam Sankirtan and Rath Yatra, that was crazier than what they could also imagine.
Just dancing on streets. And earlier, if they danced on streets, the police would have come and arrested them. But now the police protected and guided them.
Because it was a cultural festival from an ancient tradition. So Prabhupada just accommodated their desire to do all kinds of crazy things. And they loved it.
So bhakti is, we want to develop the ultimate madness for Krishna. But how do we develop that? It’s not that suddenly we wake up and one day I feel mad for Krishna. In the initial days of our bhakti, when we first come, we start understanding the philosophy, we start experiencing some taste.
It’s wonderful. I just want to give up everything else. I just want to surrender to Krishna.
I want to just all the time, day and night practise bhakti. We feel like that. But that feeling doesn’t continue for very long.
Because why? Initially there is the newness and the freshness which attracts us. But bhakti is not just about the newness or freshness of the activities. Bhakti is about the connection with Krishna.
And that connection takes time to develop. So initially we feel very attracted and afterwards we feel, I don’t feel so attracted. It’s not that we are no longer attracted, but it’s the long journey that is starting.
It will redirect our heart from the world to Krishna. So during this process, where we are right now, and we have a certain attraction to certain things and we want to be attracted to Krishna. So the expertise of bhakti is that bhakti is inclusive spirituality, not exclusive spirituality.
Inclusive spirituality means bhakti doesn’t say reject the world and go to Krishna. Bhakti says go through the world to Krishna. Don’t look away from the world to Krishna, but look through the world beyond the world to Krishna.
The world’s things are attractive, but where does the attraction comes from? It comes from Krishna. So use the things of this world to serve Krishna. Bhakti is sensory spirituality.
Sensory spirituality means the senses, which are normally causes of bondage, are used in bhakti to advance in the path of liberation. The eyes causes bondage when we get attracted by worldly objects. But those same eyes can take us towards liberation if we direct them towards Krishna.
And in fact, so much so that whereas some spiritualists, such as the impersonalists, say that I just don’t want to, I want to be silent. I want to take maunavrata. In the Bhagavatam, in the Prahlad’s prayer, it says, maunam charanti, that the sages just take maunavrata.
I don’t want to talk anything. I don’t want to get entangled with the world. That’s their idea.
But for the devotees, they don’t want to be silent. They would say that, oh, I want hundreds of mouths so that I can glorify Krishna. Rupa Goswami says, even if I have hundreds of mouths and thousands of ears, Krishna’s glories are so sweet that I can’t relish them enough.
So the devotees, wherever we are at, we use, from there we move towards Krishna. And that was Srila Prabhupada’s expertise. Devotees in the first generation in general, they were very energetic.
They wanted to do something special. And Prabhupada just challenged and stimulated them. In 1968, Prabhupada came back from India.
First time he had gone because of sickness. And the devotees were a little apprehensive. What will happen? How will we continue on our spiritual life without Prabhupada? But somehow they continued on.
And Prabhupada came back. And when he came back in the room, they had an atlas over there. And Prabhupada told all his young disciples, most of them were 18, 20, 22, he says, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu told us that his name should be spread all over the world.
So all of you take one, one country. Go to that country and deliver that country. Now some of the devotees, one of the Matajis was there, she said, Prabhupada, what about us girls? He says, we are not boys and girls.
We are souls. You also pick up one country. You also pick up one country.
So basically devotees did that. They just went to distant countries and started preaching. Now, and one said, it is mad.
You just go to another country. There was one of Prabhupada’s disciples, once Prabhupada was in India, and he was telling how Krishna Mahasaya is spread all over the world. So then one person in India challenged, you are saying it’s all over the world? Is this Krishna bhakti being practised in Pakistan also? And then in a challenge like this, Prabhupada said, we will do it in future.
And one of Prabhupada’s disciples took that as a challenge. And he went to Pakistan and in Pakistan he started doing public Harinam Sankirtan. Dancing on the streets.
And Pakistan has a love-hate relationship with America. They want the help of America but they still don’t want domination by America. And they have a strong hate relationship with India.
And here was an American, practising the religion of India on the streets of Pakistan. It created a shock. People came and said, you cannot do this in Pakistan.
He said, no, Krishna will protect. It was just madness. But they did that.
So, Brahmantru did that and then eventually, somehow one of the news came that Hare Krishna Devotee was killed. Actually nothing happened, but the news came up somehow. So then Prabhupada was very concerned.
And then Brahmantru came back to Pakistan and Prabhupada was so happy with him. He said, you risk your life for glorifying Krishna. So at that time, it was almost like madness.
So now, so for us, so the point I’m making is, Prabhupada was expert in channelling people’s passion to get them to move towards Krishna. And they were doing book distribution. It was just hundreds and hundreds of books they were distributing.
How they were distributing? One devotee was telling me that when he was distributing books, he said, a person approached him and he said, you know, I’m the marketing in charge of a big company. He says, we have marketing people. I have not seen anyone distributing any product like this.
So if you decide to leave this Hare Krishna, come to me, I’ll give you a job. So it was, in a sense, maddening. Now, of course, so I’ll make two points from this whole analysis, which I’ll conclude.
First is that where we are, what we are attracted to, it is the expertise of bhakti and of the spiritual master that from there we are attracted towards Krishna. Arjuna was an archer and he loved archery. But bhakti was that, use your archery in Krishna’s service.
Some people love to decorate. Oh, you decorate the deities, you decorate the temple. So whatever is our current attraction, we connect that current attraction with the spiritual attraction, with attraction to Krishna.
And by that, now how to do that where that will require some intelligence, that will require some creativity. I was in a devotee’s house in America and this couple, they were telling me that they were quite nice, serious devotees. And they said their son was very creative.
He is into robotics. Just a small boy, 8-10 years old, but he has won national awards in robotics, participated in national competitions. And he said that he is completely absorbed in this.
And then they say, but he has no interest in spiritual life. So what can we do? Then I asked him, what do you do in robotics? I was talking with him. He says, we make robots which can do work in Amazon.
They have these robots which go and pack the bags, pack the packages and carry the packages and put them in the trucks. So we try to make more efficient robots which can lift up things, detect things. So then I told him that, how do you get your ideas for making robots for future competitions? He said, I just scour around.
Then I suggested to him, you can make a robot of Krishna and Arjuna speaking the Bhagavad Gita. He said, and how? Then he said, thought about it. Actually, that will be a unique idea.
Nobody else will do that. And then he started thinking about it. He said, OK, let me see.
Then his parents told me recently that now he has read the full Bhagavad Gita to understand how to depict it. What happens is, people have certain creativity, certain interest. We might just dismiss it as mundane.
But you don’t have to dismiss it as mundane. You can see how that can be connected with Krishna. And if that can be connected with Krishna, then from what they are mad at, they can become mad for Krishna.
It’s one aspect of bhakti is, we have to give up the madness for the world and become mad for Krishna. And there are some activities in the world which cannot be doubted. As I said, somebody is attracted to anti-devotional activities, they may have to give up those.
But we could say everything material is not necessarily anti-devotional. In the material, some could be anti-devotional, some could be non-devotional, some could be pro-devotional. And that way, we can all connect our current mania with the spiritual mania.
So right now, it is not easy to feel, oh, the happiness of bhakti is far, far greater than the happiness of this world. Because for us, this world is real and our consciousness is at that level. So we’ll be attracted to things of this world.
So therefore, we need to keep hearing regularly. The nature of the mind is, it distorts our values. If I’m working on a computer, I’m doing some important project work, an important article I’m writing.
But some notice pops up. Somebody has posted something on Facebook, some mail has come, something there. What happens? The mind says, oh, this is new, let me read it.
So the mind just goes by newness. Mind doesn’t go by importance. Whatever is new, it must be simulated.
What I’m doing right now is more important. But the mind doesn’t consider it that way. So basically, the point I’m making is the mind’s evaluation is not always based on facts, on reality.
The work which I’m doing is much more important, but the mind says, come on, do this. So how do we make sure that we don’t get carried away at that time? To remind us, OK, this is much more important. That can be done later also.
So right now, the higher taste doesn’t seem higher always to us. And the lower taste doesn’t seem always lower to us. In fact, the lower taste many times seems higher than the higher taste.
There’s so much pleasure here. Bhakti, yeah, it’s there. But maybe, yes, Krishna is good.
But Maya is also not bad. It’s how we feel at present. So then what do we do? We have to hear regularly.
Throughout this whole metaphor, the driving metaphor of the Bhakti Lata Beej is hearing is the water for nourishing the Bhakti Lata Beej. The more we keep hearing about Krishna, Leela and Krishna Tattva, the more we will understand what is truly important. So the worldly purushartha, dharmartha, kama, moksha, they will appear very attractive.
But when we hear, when we hear, then we will understand with philosophy. Actually, this is not that important. That is really important.
And that’s how we’ll become convinced. Siddhanta baliya chitte na kare alas. Iha hai te krishna lagi sudhruda manas.
When we are determined to serve Krishna, how will we get that determination? Siddhanta baliya. When we study the philosophy and understand the philosophy, the philosophy will give us conviction. This is the reality.
And this is all not that important. And if you become lazy in studying the philosophy, Siddhanta baliya chitte na kare alas. Some people say, oh, I just want rasa.
I just want to hear about Leela. I want to hear about pastime. I want some bhakti rasa.
That’s good. You want the bhakti rasa. And we should strive for it also.
But if you’re lazy about the philosophy, today we’ll be attracted to worldly things. Today we’ll be attracted to Krishna. We’ll be dancing and singing kirtans about Krishna.
But tomorrow we’ll get attracted to worldly things. In India, nowadays, there are a lot of religious channels with religious entertainment. Some people may be watching the Ramayana.
And when they see, oh, Jatayu was killed, they may cry tears. And then the Ramayana programme gets over, they change the channel and they watch a cricket match. And say, since I’m India’s top cricketer gets out.
And they start crying there also. So for them, this is one form of entertainment. That is another form of entertainment.
So that is, if the philosophy is not there, then our mind will not be fixed on Krishna clearly, steadily. So we study the philosophy and we hear the pastimes. And both this kind of hearing, so studying the philosophy gives us conviction that Krishna is for real.
Attracted to Krishna is for real. And hearing the pastimes, hearing about Krishna directly gives us the experience of how wonderful it is to taste Krishna, to relish Krishna. And in this way, our attraction from where it is will be directed towards Krishna.
So we need to find, as I said, some uddhipan. Ujjwal Nullamani is the book, which is an advanced book written by Rupa Goswami, which takes forward from where he is describing Bhakti Samvat Siddhu. And there he uses the word uddhipan.
Uddhipan is spiritual stimulus or if it’s a spiritual sense object. That means, just as when we see a sense object, our emotions, consciousness immediately get captivated by that. So we all can have spiritual sense objects by which our consciousness gets captivated.
So each of us can find what is the uddhipan for us. For some of us, it may be the deities. For some of us, it may be a spiritual master.
Some of us, it may be hearing classes. For some of us, it may be reciting verses. For some of us, it may be kirtans.
And in this uddhipan, the uddhipan is that stimulus which attracts our consciousness towards Krishna. And because each one of us is individual, we have to find out what is the uddhipan that works best for us. And then we channel that uddhipan in Krishna’s service.
And this uddhipan will vary from person to person, this spiritual stimulus. When I take darshan of the deities, I usually recite some verses. And I recite the verses, then these thoughts start moving.
Oh, this is the Lord who is here. This is the Lord I am praying to. And then the description of the verse, description of the Lord in the verse, brings a connection with the depiction of the Lord in front of me.
So I told once in a class, we can recite verses when we take darshan of the deities. A couple of days later, a devotee came and told me, I said, no, I tried to recite verses, but when I go in front of the deities, to try to remember these verses, it causes me so much tension that whatever bhakti I have, that goes away. So then I told him that, yes, for some people, the visual aspect may be more important than the verbal aspect.
So if you feel devotional connection just by looking at the deities, then you can just pray over there. You don’t need to memorise verses. We have to see what works best for us.
So the uddhipan for one person may be different from the uddhipan for another person. But when we find our uddhipan, our spiritual stimulus, then that will help us push our consciousness towards Krishna. So the river is the process of bhakti.
There is a river bed. But our consciousness is like the water that has to flow through it. So bhakti provides us a broad structure.
But it is for each one of us to make sure that our consciousness flows towards Krishna. And as our consciousness flows more and more towards Krishna, then we will start relishing the beauty of Krishna. We will start relishing the higher joy.
And then we will start experiencing all this worldly pleasure. It is not worth getting distracted from Krishna. It is nothing as compared to Krishna.
When we get that conviction, then our inner struggle will go down substantially. When our, currently our mind is agitated, I want this, I want that, I want that. But when the mind starts realising, all that is not that important.
This is what is most important. When the mind becomes peaceful, we will become joyful. Our bhakti will become joyful at that time.
This consciousness will just flow towards Krishna. And that’s how we’ll joyfully advance towards life’s supreme perfection. So I’ll summarise.
I spoke today on the theme of nourishing the bhaktirata beach, in which I talked about channelling our consciousness towards Krishna. And in this verse, it is stated that the pleasure of dharma artha kama moksha is nothing as compared to the pleasure of love for Krishna. So I started by talking about purush artha.
Artha is meaning, value or purpose. Each of us has something that gives meaning, value, purpose to our life. And everybody has problems, but their purpose gives them the momentum to overcome the problems.
Just like a truck moving fast has the momentum to push aside obstacles in its way. In the material world, people’s purush artha centres on dharma, religiosity, reputation, artha, financial prosperity and comfort and security. And then kama is pleasure and comfort, sensual pleasures and comfort.
And moksha is freedom from misery, freedom from entanglement. Specifically, they may have different things by which they get artha kama. But these are the broad purush arthas.
And when we have a particular purpose, that makes us like mad to achieve that purpose. So the devotees are mad for Krishna and materialistic people are also mad. People in goodness are mad in a particular way, mad about ideas.
People in ignorance are mad about illusion. Watch this movie, do this, do that. People in passion are mad about achieving certain things.
I want to get this position. I want to get this person. I want to enjoy this.
So everybody in this world is mad in some way or the other. The nature of the soul is to be mad, but there is healthy madness and unhealthy madness. So the expertise of bhakti is that whatever we are currently mad for, we can channel that and direct it towards Krishna.
So how do we do that? That is the inclusiveness of bhakti. And that is the expertise of the spiritual master who guides us to do that. So there is the thing which we are mad for.
Somebody mad for writing, somebody mad for work, somebody mad for travelling, somebody mad for sightseeing. So the expert devotee finds out a way in which these can be used in Krishna’s service. So then that is with respect to our engagement with the world, how we channel it for bhakti, channel it towards Krishna through bhakti.
And there is also the direct process of bhakti, which also we need to practise. We can’t simply do the worldly activities and our attraction to Krishna will not develop. Our attraction is what brings absorption.
But when the attraction is not there, then conscious intention can also bring absorption. It’s like somebody loves a book and that’s why they are reading it. Or somebody is reading it absorbed because they have to study and give an exam.
So for us that attraction will be to particular things at present. But when that attraction is not there, we have to have this conscious intention. That comes by hearing.
Hearing the philosophy gives us the conviction that Krishna is the supreme reality. And hearing the past times gives us the glimpse, a taste of how Krishna is the supreme reality. And though the higher taste may not seem higher to us, we understand that’s because I am right now in the modes.
And the modes condition my perception. So there is a reality which is unconditioned and we try to move towards that. So we move towards that in three ways.
One is by channelling our present madness towards Krishna. Second is by hearing so that we are convinced about what is truly worth being mad about. And thirdly by finding out our uddhipan, the specific things that trigger our spiritual emotions towards Krishna.
When we get the water of our consciousness to flow along the channel of bhakti, thus towards Krishna, then as we become purer, as we start tasting the sweetness of Krishna, the worldly things will stop seeming so attractive. And as the mind starts becoming less agitated by the worldly things, then as we become, as the mind becomes peaceful, our devotion will become more and more joyful. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. So are there any questions or comments? Yes. Thank you very much.
You were speaking about bhakti yoga, attraction to Krishna. Traditionally there was karma yoga, jnana yoga, sangha yoga. So I was just thinking, they obviously don’t know about Krishna.
Traditionally there was karma yoga, jnana yoga, sangha yoga, bhakti yoga. Bhakti yoga is when we think about Krishna, when we feel about Krishna. I was just thinking traditionally, what does the karma yoga, jnana yoga, sangha yoga, what do they feel? What are their feelings, what are their thoughts? Who are they? Ok, I got your question.
So what is the object of attraction for the karma yogis, the jnana yogis? Traditionally. Generally the various yogas are defined by two things. The kind of action that is done and the kind of conception that is there for people.
So in karma yoga it is yoga of action. But there is also a particular conception. Jnana yoga is also like that.
The action may not be there. It’s more contemplation. So generally speaking in these yogas, the word yoga itself indicates that there is a connection with some higher reality.
At least an attempt for connection with the higher reality. Now what that higher reality is, usually that understanding is not so clear. brahmanyadhayakarmani saṅgāntyaktvākarotiḥ lipyate na sa pāpena padmapatra me vāmbhasa In the fifth chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says that brahmanyadhayakarmani, that offer the work to Brahman.
Now what is that Brahman? That different transcendentalists will have different conceptions. So generally the first step in spiritual realisation usually is the idea of oneness. The non-differentiated oneness.
Why is that? Because in this world if a person is little perceptive, they start understanding that actually I am getting entangled. And what is it that is entangling me? It is the forms, the qualities, the attributes. So basically their equation is that form leads to entanglement.
Form leads to attraction, leads to entanglement. Therefore, if I don’t want to be entangled, what is it that is causing me entanglement? Form. So let me go beyond the forms.
You see the forms here are temporary. And when I get entangled, I get distressed. I want to go beyond this.
Therefore, they conceive of the spiritual reality as a non-differentiated oneness. There is no form, no qualities. So then the things that entangle me over here, they are no longer present.
That’s how I’ll be disentangled. So generally for most people in the Vedic tradition or in the outside tradition, in the broad world traditions, they when they start practising spirituality, they start exploring life’s higher dimension, the first conception is some kind of oneness. So is that oneness attractive? From the bhakti point of view, it’s not so attractive.
But there is from the intellect, there is emotional and intellectual. So from the intellectual point of view, the idea of oneness is quite attractive. In science, what does it do? It looks at the diverse phenomena in the world.
And after looking at those diverse phenomena, it tries to make sense of it. So for example, why does the apple fall over here? Why do the planets move like that? There is one principle, there is a law of gravity. So basically, when we try to advance in knowledge, there is a bewildering diversity of phenomena in the world around us.
From that diversity, we try to look for some unity. Okay, why does this person behave like this? Oh, he’s a teenager. Teenagers always are restless.
So we try to contextualise things. We try to bring some harmony or order within the diversity. Otherwise, the diversity will be maddening.
We talk about diversity and people want to celebrate diversity. That’s good. But the diversity also has to be categorised.
Otherwise, every new person we meet, and that is completely different from everyone else we have met. We don’t know how to deal with them, what to do with them. So we try to put them in categories.
Suppose we meet a new person and they’re talking a different language. Oh, they’re talking, they don’t know this language. Okay, we’ll find out a translator to talk with.
So my point is that trying to look for oneness, trying to look for unity, trying to make sense of diversity by looking at some order behind it, that is just a natural human inclination. And that when is directed towards the spiritual realm, most people come up with the idea of oneness. Now it requires scripture to understand what is there beyond that oneness or where that oneness is coming from.
You can get a vague sense that that oneness will not just be non-differentiated because here there is differentiation. So where did this differentiation come from? So then Jiva Goswami says that if you consider there are three aspects of the absolute truth, Sat, Chit, Ananda. So he says when we realise only the Sat aspect of the absolute, that is Brahman.
That means he says Brahman is the absolute truth without any potencies, just existence, just consciousness, non-differentiated consciousness which exists everywhere. Paramatma is the conception of the absolute truth with material potencies. That means there is not just non-differentiated oneness beyond this world, but that is the higher being who is also monitoring this world, who is also overseeing this world.
That means that absolute being has material potencies to control this world. But then he says we understand that absolute truth also has his self existence. He has his own life and he has his loved ones.
That’s when we understand the absolute truth’s spiritual potencies. That’s the understanding of Bhagwan. So normally most transcendentalists begin with the idea of Brahman where just the absolute truth and non-differentiated consciousness.
Then they may progress towards the idea of Paramatma, absolute truth with material potencies. And then they progress towards Bhagwan where they understand absolute truth as not just material but also spiritual potencies. That is the Bhagwan understanding.
Any other questions? I was wondering, you mentioned about the importance of channelling the present madness toward Krishna. Does this hold true for Brahmacharya also? Or rather shall we aim to transcend our mania, our madness? Because recently actually yesterday I was speaking with some ex-Brahmacharis and they were saying you are really lucky now that you can play music because at my time 20-30 years ago we were not allowed to play music and authorities used to tell us that is maya, you should get that out. So can Brahmacharis channel their present passion in Krishna’s service? Generally in the early stages of growth education is always given in terms of black and white.
This is black, this is white. But as we move forward we learn that reality is not just black and white. There are shades of grey also.
So in school initially we are told 3-5 is not possible. But afterwards we are told 3-5 is possible. So similarly in the early stages of our movement we were basically very much of a cult.
Not the cult in the negative sense of the word. Cult means we are very disconnected from the world. To become a devotee means leave the world and move to the temple and live there.
So any form of engagement with the world would mean interacting with the world more than necessary. And that could lead to entanglement and losing of one’s Krishna bhakti. But now we are no longer a temple based movement.
We are a congregation movement. In fact now our movement is moving towards the way bhakti culture was traditionally in India. In the past also it was not that everybody was in the renounced order, everybody was living in the temple.
People’s lives were centred on the temple but people had their own lives also. That’s how it was traditionally practised. So now when we are living in the world there is more of an engagement with the world.
So we could say one way of practising bhakti is segregation from the world. Just distance yourself, separation from the world where we have our farm communities and just don’t use anything material, just focus on Krishna. And Prabhupada also wanted temples in the cities, heart of the cities.
And that was we could say the other aspect of bhakti is penetration. We penetrate into the mainstream society. And there we practise bhakti.
And there we infuse bhakti into people from the inside. So more and more our movement is moving towards the penetration of bhakti certainly. So when Bhaktiswaro Thakur said that along for the day when high court judges will be wearing tilaks.
Now what does it mean? One way it could happen is that devotees form the government and devotees are judges. That’s possible but a more likely way would be that the judges become, the devotees are so competent judges that even the non-devotee government they see this person so competent, let them appoint a judge. And their devotion is not seen as a disqualification.
They don’t have to conceal their devotion because devotees are so respected. So how will devotees be respected? When they are good at their field. The world may respect our devotion but the world is going to function and the world is going to respect those who function well in the world.
So if a devotee is a very good teacher, many devotees nowadays get into teaching. I know several devotees in India who have won national awards, president’s award. And then other people come and learn from them.
And then through their prestige that they get they also talk about Krishna. So certainly what is Maya and what is Krishna is something which has to be differentiated. But rather than thinking of the differentiation in terms of black and white, we have to see what is favourable for us.
So for somebody who has no interest in music, they try to develop a lot of music, interest in music. And they start hearing this music, that music, that music and they get captivated by Maya. But somebody already has an interest in music and they have anyway heard a lot of music.
So if music alone had been captivating them, they would not have come to Krishna only now. They would have stayed with music. They come to Krishna means, that means they also know there is something more to life.
Then the attraction to music that they have, then when they are hearing music, they are not simply hearing music. They think, okay, how can I use this music in Krishna’s service? And then they will be able to use it. So each of us, when we are trying to use anything worldly in Krishna’s service, we have to see what is the effect on us.
Is it that that is causing our consciousness to become dominated by the worldly thing or increasingly attracted to that worldly thing? Or is it that we are able to channel through that towards Krishna? So consciousness is already there and we use it for Krishna. Suppose now for us we say sports can distract us from spiritual life. But somebody is already a sports star.
Do we really tell them that give up your sports and then practise bhakti? Not necessarily. They are already into sports. They will be in sports.
They can practise bhakti as sports players. So rather than making a universal statement, this is Krishna and this is Maya, there are certain things, of course, which are directly devotional and some things which are directly anti-devotional. But the broad spectrum, each person will have to see the effect of it on their consciousness.
And so for somebody, say, who is in the stocks business, that is their business and they think about it anyway. And thinking about them is not one to captivate. But if somebody else gets into stocks thinking, oh, I’ll make more money, I’ll make more money, I’ll make more money and chanting Hare Krishna, they think, oh, this stock has gone up, this stock has gone down, then that’s Maya for them.
So Maya is not black and white. Maya is also there are shades of grey within it. So each of us can find out the effect and then decide whether it takes us towards Krishna or away from Krishna.
Thank you. Last question. So how can we move from unsteady devotional service to steady devotional service? If you see, there is Shraddha, Sadhu Sangha, Bhajan Kriya, Anartha Nivrutti and then Nishta.
These are the stages of Bhakti. So Prabhupada translates Shraddha, which is the first stage, as simply favourable curiosity. What are these people doing? I want to know about it.
And from there it is through the association of devotees, through the practise of Bhakti and especially through Anartha Nivrutti. So Anarthas are what make our Bhakti unsteady. So when we go beyond that, when we come to Nishta, that is where Bhakti has become steady.
Now Anartha Nivrutti does take a long time for most of us. And during this long journey, it is best that we find something which sustains us along the way. That means this is the material tastes.
This is the worldly taste that I have. This is the devotional taste. We want to go from the worldly taste to the devotional taste.
But this is a long journey. And to sustain that journey, how do we make ourselves steady? We have to find out something which gives us taste as we are moving forward. As I said that if we have some material passion, if this is the circle of Bhakti and this is the circle of what I like to do, what are my current interests? And I find the intersection of them.
And then doing that is something which is relatively easy for me. Because anyway I like to do it. And while doing that, initially the taste might be material, but because I’m doing it for Krishna, the taste starts becoming spiritual.
So basically, when we try to practise Bhakti, there are of course certain activities which we have to do as a part of our sadhana. But we have to find out something which we feel personally connected to and by which we feel connected to Krishna. And we make a commitment to doing that.
So become steady at least in one thing. And from that steadiness in one thing, as the connection with Krishna develops, from that connection, we get satisfaction. From that connection, we get purification.
And from that connection, steadiness will gradually emerge. So for us, the operating principle, we could say is what Prabhupada Swami gives, yena kena prakaarena manah krishna niveshayat. Somehow or the other fix the mind in Krishna.
So find out, somehow or the other means, find out what works for us. What is the way in which I can fix the mind in Krishna? And if I do that, from there, I’ll move forwards in my life. So thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Prabhupada.