Overcoming obstacles 5 – Focus not on how the world sees you but on how you see the world – part 1

[Seminar in Alachua Learning Center, Alachua, USA]

Talk ppt

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna! Hare Krishna! Welcome all of you.
It’s the second day. We are doing the third session now. And we are discussing about various obstacles.
We discussed about the obstacles that emerge from the mind, which is desire and how to manage them. We discussed about the obstacles that emerge from the intelligence, that is doubts. Now, this categorisation is not watertight.
Today I am going to talk about the ego and the obstacles that come from the ego. So, the focus on relationships. Relationships with others, who are either the devotees or also relationship with the institution, which we belong to.
So, when we talk about focus on how you see the world, not on how the world sees you. Focus more on how we see the world. What happens in our life is that we all need a sense of validation, need a sense of reassurance that what I am doing is right.
And we naturally look at the world for that. And if we find that people are disapproving us, criticising us, that creates insecurity. And to some extent, when we start practising spiritual life, Krishna says, यानिशासरोभूतानां तस्याम् जागति भूतानि साणिशापश्यतो मुझे यानिशासरोभूतानां तस्याम् जागति भूतानि साणिषापश्यतो मुझे In 2.69 he says that that which is night for all living beings is day for the self-realised.
That is day for the all living beings and night for the self-realised. Basically he is saying that there are materialist and spiritualist are going to be different. So just by practising bhakti, by choosing a spiritual way of life, we do earn the disapproval of a large part of the world.
And if we focus too much on how the world is seeing me, then we cannot start practising bhakti also. Once we start practising bhakti, we to some extent move more into the devotee community. Although we interact with the broader world, but to some extent our interaction is more with the devotee community.
And even in the devotee community, there is diversity. So in one sense, the disapproval or criticism that we can get from materialists, any kind of criticism or disapproval is difficult to take. But we understand their values are different.
So it’s not that difficult to take. But when it comes from devotees, it becomes even more difficult. And criticism is only one aspect, but there are other aspects also.
But the point is that as devotees, we can’t recognise that we can’t change the world. So what we can focus is, focus on how we are looking at the world and more precisely on where we are looking at the world. So we’ll talk more about not just associating, but selecting our associations.
Sushil Prabhupada writes in the Nectar of Instruction, in the parapura, dadaati pratigranaati, guriya maakhyati pichchati, dhoomte bhojayate jaiva, sarvidam priti lakshana. In that parapura, he says that the community of devotees, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, is meant to nourish these six-fold exchanges between devotees. This is the place where we come and hear about Krishna, speak about Krishna, we honour prasad, we offer prasad, we give gifts, we receive gifts.
These are the six exchanges, which in general are characteristics of affection. And now Prabhupada says, this con is meant to nourish these six things. And when we talk about an institution, the focus is that if we start looking, oh, is this happening in the moment? Are devotees loving? Are devotees reciprocating in a loving way? Oh, this devotee is not like that, that devotee is like that.
We can focus on, okay, I have come to this con, am I doing this? We can find out the devotees with whom we can get along nicely. And we focus on the six-fold exchanges with the devotees. Those devotees with whom we find that we are like-minded.
To the extent, we focus on expecting things from others, either it be other devotees or other, the leaders of the movement or whatever. To that extent, we actually set ourselves up for disappointment. Bhaktivinod Thakur gives a very challenging definition of humility.
He says humility means having no expectation from anyone. Actually, it’s very difficult. Because relationships mean there are expectations.
But he says humility means to not have any expectations. We cannot live without expectations. But still, if our focus is primarily on expecting things from others, then we become very uncertain, we feel very insecure, we feel very uncared.
But if our focus is less on expectation and more on contribution, this is what Srila Prabhupada wanted to happen in ISKCON. Let me try to do that according to my capacity. So, rather than seeing whether others are doing it or not, can I do it according to my capacity? So, when there is expectation, it creates a sense of powerlessness.
Because when you expect from someone, if that person doesn’t do it, you feel powerless. But instead, if our focus shifts from expectation to contribution, ISKCON is a forum for these exchanges with devotees. So, let me do this.
Then, actually, even if the amount of contribution that we can do is very small, we feel I don’t have much position or power or influence. But still, once our focus shifts to contribution, it gives us a sense of having something to do. Even if it is small, we can at our level start making a small difference.
And that helps decrease the feeling of being uncared for or neglected or feeling powerless or victimised. Many of these feelings can come up when we live or function primarily based on expectations. And unfortunately, it happens that when we come to the moment, initially, because our whole movement’s ethos is machinery, we try to get new people to become devotees.
And that’s why when new people come often, we offer a lot of love, care, attention. And then, sometimes that becomes the expectation. We get a lot of love, care, attention.
We say, this is what I’ll get throughout my bhakti life. So, one devotee said that, initially when new people come, we give them fried pakodas. And after they become devotees, we fry them like pakodas.
So, sometimes initially, that expectation that is set up, that does not last. And then we feel frustrated. But in general, the whole process of growing up is the process of moderating our expectations.
Now, when a child is born, the child does nothing except cry. And as soon as the child starts crying, the mother, the father, they run around and give the child food, give the child toys, start pacifying the child. The child just expects, oh, I’ll cry, and others will take care of me.
And I’ll cry, whatever I want, I’ll be provided. And at that stage, for the child, that’s what is required. But as the child starts growing up, the child starts recognising that, actually, you know, I may cry, but sometimes I will not get things.
And even if the parents are very, parents pamper the children a lot and give everything that the children want. But eventually the children are going to grow up. And they’re going to need things which the parents can’t provide.
Then life is going to say no to them. And the children will pamper a lot during their childhood. Then when they grow up and life says no, they just can’t take a no at that.
Their expectations of life are so high that when they experience any kind of rejection, refusal, they just can’t take it. So the whole process of growing up, in a sense, is the process of moderating our expectations. We start off thinking that, oh, the child, actually, in a sense, in a practical sense, what is the contribution of a child to a household? The child is not doing any of the work, the child is not earning anything.
Initially the child comes with no contribution, only expectation. And everybody is happy to provide the child. But the whole process of growing up is recognising that to decrease my expectation and increase my contribution.
So same way, in our bhakti, initially, we are offered love, care, attention. And that is good. But as we keep growing up in our bhakti, that means recognise that I can’t keep expecting.
Now one problem with our devotional relationships is that with respect to our parents, over a period of time we understand that our parents are so limited. A child says, mommy, I want that bike, or I want that toy, I want that car, whatever. And a mother may say, we can’t afford it now.
We don’t have enough money, maybe in the future we’ll get it. A child doesn’t like the norm. The child understands, what can my parents do? They are also limited.
They can’t provide for it. But when we are relating with Krishna, we know Krishna is unlimited. So we feel, if Krishna wants, he can provide anything for me.
And if he is not providing, then that means he doesn’t care for me. So to some extent, the knowledge of Krishna’s omnipotence, if not carefully understood, knowledge of Krishna’s omnipotence can lead to increase in our expectations. And when our expectations become a lot from Krishna and Krishna’s movement, and when they are not satisfied, we feel disappointed.
We feel that Krishna doesn’t exist, Krishna doesn’t care. And we become disheartened in the practise of our God. But it’s a normal process of growing up, whether it is physical growing up or it is spiritual growing up.
It involves decreasing our, moderating our expectations and increasing our contributions. Now the contribution that we make, it may initially be very small. But even a small contribution gives us a sense of purpose, a sense of value.
Yes, I am also doing something. And then that can be the basis by which we move onwards. So this, when we start doing this, let me focus on doing what I can.
And actually, once we start doing some service, then our, some contribution, then our relationships also get orientated accordingly. Because if we are doing a particular service, then we find other devotees are also doing similar services. We can connect with them.
And their concerns and our concerns are similar. If somebody is a book distributor, they meet other book distributors, they have something substantial to discuss about. Somebody is a writer, they meet with other writers and discuss.
Somebody is a preacher, they have other preachers to discuss it. So our service can become one area from where we can also develop our relationships. So, you know, behind bhakti, tolerance is what we require.
So once, I was giving a class and I told that when we are living in, when we are practising bhakti, we have to tolerate many things. So I asked the devotee, what all do we have to tolerate? So one devotee very enthusiastically raised their hand. I said, yes, what do we have to tolerate? He said, we have to tolerate devotees.
So I said, yes, it’s a good realisation to have. Sometimes devotees may behave in ways which are difficult for us to bear and we have to tolerate them. But as we grow, then we realise that it is not only we who are tolerating devotees, devotees are also tolerating us.
So there are often things in us also which other people find it difficult. So the whole process of having relationships with anyone involves both people needing to tolerate. So now tolerate, Prabhupada defines tolerance as, in the Krishna book he says that one’s capacity to not be provoked in provoking situations.
I’m paraphrasing what he’s saying. So people will behave in provocative ways. And now I’m speaking all this, whatever I’m speaking, it is often, I struggle to practise this.
And I am struggling, so I seek your blessing so that I can walk my talk in some way also. But by speaking about it, I’m forced to meditate on it. And I’m forced to meditate on it and I’m also more inclined to practise it.
So this is, now regarding tolerance, an interesting point is that there’s a difference between people who are desensitised and people who are insensitive. Desensitised means, insensitive means people just don’t care. How could you speak like that? How could you have done like that? How could she have spoken like that? How could you be so insensitive? But actually, there is, insensitive means people don’t care.
But desensitised means people just can’t care. What do I mean by can’t care? See all of us have certain things which we are sharp at, which we are good at. Say for example, one of my services is a writer.
So whenever I go to any place, I start looking at all the notices and I start looking at what spelling mistakes are there. And especially, I come from India, many Indians don’t really care for English grammar and punctuation much. So what happens, every time I go to a temple, or I go to any youth preaching programme, I always find 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 spellings wrong somewhere.
And what happens is, I find it very irritating. But for others, okay the spelling is wrong, people understand, now what is the problem? So it’s not that they are insensitive. It’s just that, that is not very important for them.
They are desensitised to it. So now this is with respect to English punctuation. But it can be with respect to many things.
Sometimes some people just don’t have a sense of cleanliness. They just keep things unclean. Now I am not rationalising or justifying having bad punctuation or being unclean.
But it’s just that some people just don’t notice it. So they will be in a room and as soon as they enter a room, the whole room becomes unclean immediately. And then they come in and ask, why did you do this? Did I do this? I didn’t even notice it.
So we may get provoked because I told you not to do it, why are you doing it? But the thing is, it doesn’t register in their body. Just like people who spell things wrong, it doesn’t register in them that they are doing something which is wrong, other things they should not do. So like that, some people just don’t notice that things are unclean.
If they notice it, they will clean it up. But it doesn’t register in them. It doesn’t register as something important.
Same thing can happen in music. Sometimes new people come and start picking up a Kartal. And they start playing the Kartal.
And they don’t have a sense of Taal. And they are playing the Kartal and they are blissful. And everybody around them is miserable.
So they don’t understand that they are doing something wrong. So I have this. I have a complete musical sense I am lacking in that.
And I am like tone deaf. So earlier when I used to sing Kirtans, so the Mrudang would become like a hot potato which everybody would pass to others. Because nobody could play Mrudanga when I was singing.
Then I decided to put them out of the misery and not sing. That’s what senior devotees told me. But the thing is that if I realise what I am doing wrong, I can correct it.
But I am singing and I am actually absorbed in Krishna. Brothers can’t be absorbed in Krishna. So all of us, we have certain things which we are just desensitised to.
So now, somebody else may be desensitised to something. And we may be ultra sensitive to that. So I am very careful.
Every spelling should be correct. What difference does a spelling make? People understand. And when people come up, what happens is the person who is ultra sensitive feels that this person is deliberately doing this to provoke me.
But it is not like that. It is just that it doesn’t register in those things. So we all are sensitised to certain things and we are desensitised to certain things.
So this all happens because of the conditioning that we have. In the Uddhav Gita, there is a section called Bhikshu Gita. The Avanti Brahmana, he sings a song and there he says in one of the verses that actually, the mind of different people is coloured differently.
He compares the three modes, the three colours. And he says that he says Shukla Raktatha Peetha. He says it is also red, yellow and white.
Some colours like that. So the point is that when the colour is different, that the people, based on the way their colouring of the mind is, they think differently. Their priorities will be different.
What they focus on will be different. And that’s why when different people are sensitised differently, what they are sensitised to, if the other person is not sensitised, they think this person is insensitive, this person is uncaring, this person is irresponsible. But just when we understand that actually we are not insensitive.
Now, there may be required a process of mutual adjustment. So if I am super sensitive about something, maybe I have to decrease the sensitivity about it a little bit. And if somebody else is completely desensitised to it, they may have to put in some effort to become a little more sensitive about it.
Both ways. So that’s how the relationship can become a little more cordial. Otherwise, if what happens if the person is super sensitive, that person feels that this person is always troubling me, always doing things to provoke me.
And the person who is desensitised, that person feels this person is a nag. Constantly finding fault. Constantly finding fault with me.
Don’t they have anything else to do? Why are they finding fault with me all the time? So, it is just that based on our conditionings, based on the way our mind is, we see some things as very important. And others do not see those things as important. Now, from the point of view of service to Krishna, you have to offer him the best.
And so if somebody is good at flower decoration, and others are not good at flower decoration, and somebody is good at flower decoration, they should be given that service. So then they can do that service well. And that way, what we are offering to Krishna remains good, remains high class.
At the same time, sometimes some people may just never understand this point. Yeah, I am doing it, it is good enough. Some people may be, now with respect to these gross skills, assessing or cleaning or punctuating, these are relatively easily identifiable things.
But the same principle can apply to subtler things. So some people, there are certain ways in which we expect people to care for us, care for each other. Say there are certain events which are important for us, maybe our birthday or anniversary, whatever.
And somebody else does not remember, we feel very bad, we do not care. So again, this is somewhat subtler. It is not that the person does not care, but it is just that that does not register as important for them.
Or it could be even certain other things. Some people, there is incompetence and there is insincerity. Sometimes some people are incompetent, but that does not necessarily mean they are insincere.
So some people say that, okay, will you do this? Yes, I will do it. I will do it. And then we ask them, did you do it? Oh no, I forgot.
I told you, you should write it down. Yeah, but I write it down and I forget where I keep the paper. So sometimes some people, they are not insincere, but they are incompetent.
So incompetent, again, it is not in a negative sense. It is just that different people have different strengths and different people have different weaknesses. So if you find out regularly that this person is incompetent about this, then we do not have to equate an incompetent with insincerity.
Rather we understand, okay, in this regard, I cannot really count on this person. I have to find somebody else. So this is, I am talking from the other person’s perspective, they can try to become competent in that direction.
But from our perspective, we also have to recognise from whom what we can count on. Otherwise, we feel always let down by others. So it is not necessary that they are insincere.
That is also a possibility. But quite often, it is that they are just not competent in that area. So it can also work out, for example, in different countries, you know, how much you touch people and how much you close stand to each other while talking to each other.
There are distances, they are different. So some people, whenever they meet, they like to touch, they like to hug. And others, why are you touching? Don’t touch me.
So some people are like that. Don’t touch me. I am expressing affection.
Why are you so unloving? So what happens? It’s just that different people have different natures in terms of what they are sensitive to or what they are desensitised to. So if we don’t understand this, then we keep having expectation from others, which they just can’t fulfil. And especially when this happens, when this desensitisation is present in somebody who is in a position of leadership, then the effect becomes much more.
Then it becomes, because the person at the top does like that, then others also start doing that. Others who could be sensitive, they also become desensitised. They also start thinking it as unimportant.
And then it can create a culture of, this is not desensitisation, this is insensitivity. So one person, maybe the person at the top is desensitised. Just don’t think about that.
Others could think about it, but they stop thinking about it. And then that perpetuates a culture of insensitivity. So over a period of time, we ourselves have to recognise who is good at what and what we can count on from whom.
And that way we move on. We will be less thoughtless, less disappointed in whatever we are doing or whatever we are counting on others to do. So when we talk about relationships, these are also opportunities to serve Krishna.
Just like we all have some services which we like to do and some services which we know are challenges. So it is said that some people bring joy where they go and some people bring joy when they go. Some people are difficult people.
So then what happens is that, just as we know that there are some services which are difficult and some services we look forward to do. Some promises, okay, I have to do this. So we gird ourselves up a little bit.
Okay, this is a difficult service, I’ll do it. So if we see some relationships also like a service, okay, dealing with this person is a difficult service. But it’s a service and with that service attitude, then we can move on.
A couple of years ago, I was in Melbourne and I was giving a class. At that time, one devotee asked a question. It was by a chick.
That devotee said, I am doing a service with one devotee and that devotee has directly told me on the face, I don’t like you. I don’t like you. So what should I do in this situation? And if that devotee is here, what would you like to tell that devotee? So I explained that actually for a devotee, if we keep our relationship with others simply as based on relating with them, then what is the difference between our relationship with them and materialistic people’s relationship with others? Now for a devotee, there is always Krishna in that relationship.
He is a third person. We are acting in that relationship not just to reciprocate with that person. That’s there of course.
We are also acting to please Krishna. So for example, say, if there is a cloth shop and there is an attendant who has to show the clothes to the customers and there is the boss who sits at the cash counter. Now when people go to cloth shop, there are some people who are very finicky.
They look at hundred clothes and after that they will not select any cloth. Any dress they will not take. And even the attendants after sometime they come to know this is a difficult customer.
So now they look at all the hundred clothes, they open it and then the attendant has to actually put them all back on the rack, fold them, maybe iron them, whatever is required. So now when the difficult customer comes, at one level, the job of the attendant is to sell that product and the attendant will try the best to sell the product. But there are customers, this is not right, this is not good, this is not good.
And like that, they look at hundred clothes and the attendant may say, wasted my time. She didn’t want to take. After seeing practically the whole store, they say, actually, you know, I wanted this.
And they know that that is not there in your shop. Why did you tell that earlier? I would have told you it is not there, you could have gone to some other shop. So at the end what they do is, they just thwart, that customer thwarts the attendant.
The attendant may explode. Why did you waste my time? Now at one level, the attendant’s job is to sell the product. But at another level, the attendant’s salary is not coming from the customer.
The attendant’s salary is coming from the boss. And the boss also knows that this is a difficult customer. So if the attendant keeps cool, keeps cool, despite this customer behaving in a provocative way, then the boss will appreciate that.
And the attendant may not make any sale, but still the boss may become pleased. You are very cool in handling a tough customer. And despite not making a sale, the boss may promote that result.
The boss may give an increment to that income. So the attendant’s job is both at one level to sell the product to the customer, but it’s also to please the boss. So similarly for us, whenever we are relating with others, so we want to, if we want to get some service done, we want to have something to be done, we want to have a fruitful interaction with the other person.
But some people are difficult. They are like a difficult customer. It’s very difficult to have a fruitful interaction.
But if we see that, actually Krishna is watching. Krishna is in their heart. And Krishna also knows that this is a provocative situation.
And we don’t get provoked at that. Then Krishna is pleased by that. So in the 10th canto of the Bhagavad Gita it is said that when Narad Muni came to meet Krishna, at that time he gave a Parijat flower to Rukmini.
And then Satyabhama came to know that Rukmini had got a Parijat flower. She said, I also want. And then Krishna took her to heaven and he brought a whole Parijat tree for her.
And after that when Krishna came and met Rukmini, then Krishna was expecting that Rukmini will demand something. He says, you gave me only one flower and you gave a whole tree to her. But Rukmini did not ask for anything.
And later on, there is that sweet interaction with Krishna and Rukmini where Krishna tries to tease and provoke Rukmini. At that time Krishna reveals his heart. Krishna says that, although you had reason to get angry, you did not get angry.
Your love for me is so great. So Krishna is very pleased by Rukmini’s conduct in that. So the point is, when we are with provocative people, it is, Krishna also knows that we are going through a difficult situation.
And Krishna, if we can maintain that at all at that time, Krishna is pleased. So we grow in our acting, not just by chanting, not just by studying scripture. Yes, it’s important, no doubt.
But we grow also by how we relate to others. So when we have this vision in mind, then we can see, our focus is not so much on seeing how that person reciprocates. Our focus is on how I am acting in that relationship with Krishna.
And of course, this does not mean that we become some kind of masochists and deliberately go out of our way to deal with difficult people. We don’t need to do that. We don’t have to hurt ourselves.
But sometimes the course of life is such that we will have to deal with difficult people. And some people are just so unreasonable. No matter what we say, they just don’t listen to it.
So rather than saying that this relationship is just a waste of time, I am just beating my head against a wall, we can see that actually, this is also an opportunity for me to grow spiritually. This is also an opportunity for me to please Krishna and receive His mercy. With that disposition, we can avoid the frustration or the helplessness or the victimisation that comes.
Now, this does not mean that somebody is always troubling us, that we simply let them trouble us all the time. Basically, when we are in a difficult situation, in a difficult situation, difficult interaction, we are doing some service with some person, some devotee, it’s very difficult for us to do it. So basically, there are three broad alternatives before us.
Either we can change ourselves, we can try to change the other person, change the situation, change the other person, or we just walk away from that situation. Now, all three are valid approaches. I will elaborate on them in the second half of the talk.
But I will just give an example at this point. We look at the Pandavas. The Kauravas were provoking them in so many ways.
They tried to poison Bhima. They tried to burn them alive. And through it all, the Pandavas just had to adjust themselves.
Just stay calm. When Bhima was poisoned, Yudhishthira told, don’t tell anyone about it. No need to provoke a conflict in our family.
Even when they were burned, when they came back, they did not say anything. They tried to burn us. Just kept it quiet.
So, they just tried to change themselves and adjust the situation. But at a particular point, when they dishonoured Draupadi, and their disposes, they had to go out in the exile, because that was the term of the game. But after that, when that line was crossed, they changed the situation.
They fought against it. They fought against the Kauravas. And they defeated them.
They destroyed them. So, we see that tolerance is a virtue, but tolerance has a purpose. Tolerance’s purpose is so that we can do our service to Krishna.
So Krishna only tells, taam siddhiksya sobharatam. It is tolerable. But that tolerance does not mean Krishna is telling the Pandavas that okay, tolerate the atrocities of the Kauravas.
The same Bhagavad Gita is calling for tolerance. It is also asking Arjuna to fight them. So, there are situations when tolerance is, that tolerance is the only reaction that we have.
There are other situations when we may tolerate, we may decide to take some strong action, to change the situation. But that also, we don’t do it impulsively. The Pandavas, they are very thoughtful.
They had discussions, they had negotiations. If nothing worked, then they took the aggressive course of action. That will be also required in some situations.
And third is, when Krishna departed from their world, the Pandavas walked away. They said enough, enough. They could still have stayed on.
So sometimes, the walking away is different from running away. Running away means, this is such a troublesome situation. I just don’t want to be here.
In running away, our focus is not on where we are going. Our focus is on from where we are going. I just don’t want to be here.
While walking away means, yes, I have better things to do in life than fight this battle. There are more important things, there are more fruitful things that I can do. And we may choose to walk away from a particular situation.
So all three, if you look at life of the Pandavas, they have done all three. And we may also need to choose one of these responses. Now in our situation, in our culture, quite often, whenever things don’t work, we often tend to go toward the second or the third.
Doesn’t work, just break things up. That is not good. But it’s not that that is entirely unacceptable.
We try various options. The Pandavas, they tried tolerance as much as they could. But then, at one particular point of time, tolerance is not going to work.
So we may have to act in different relationships differently. And in the same relationship differently, at different times. So how to do this? If you are practising our bhakti nicely, If you are chanting, if you are praying, studying scripture, Krishna used the intelligence about how to act in the situation.
So I’ll summarise. And then I’ll talk more about this in the next half also. So I talked just now about the ego and how to deal with the ego.
But focus not on how the world sees us, but how we see the world. When you start practising bhakti, a majority of the world, that is the majority of people, are going to disapprove and criticise us. And unless we develop a thick enough skill to tolerate that criticism, we will not be able to practise bhakti.
But after we start practising bhakti, then sometimes even devotees start criticising us. And that is difficult to tolerate because we feel we have similar values. Why are they criticising me? Then that is much more difficult to tolerate.
But when we have these differences of opinion with different devotees, we can focus less on expectation and more on contribution. So rather than whether, why are devotees not having these sixfold exchanges with me? Why is this not happening? Rather than expecting others to do that, we focus okay, whether this is happening in the moment or not, what am I doing? Like a child initially expects a lot, just cries and expects everything. But as the child grows up, the child knows where to contribute.
So like that initially we may get love, we may get attention, but as we grow up in our spiritual life, if we stay focused on expectation, we will be disappointed, we will feel disempowered, we feel helpless. But if we focus on making contribution, then we will feel that I am also doing something good. And then we will find a like-minded circle of devotees with whom we can have these exchanges based on our area of service and interest.
And then while we are working this way, sometimes some people we find will be very difficult to deal with. And that often is because we are very sensitive, super sensitive about something and they are desensitised to it. So it is not that they are out to provoke us, it is just that some things which are important for us, it doesn’t register in them.
So both ways there has to be adjustment, they have to become a little more sensitive about it. And we need to decrease our expectations, at least in that regard from them. And if others can’t change it, others don’t change or can’t change, then we have to learn to moderate our expectations.
And moving forward, so with respect to dealing with some people, when it is difficult, if you see that as a service to Krishna, okay, even if this person doesn’t reciprocate properly, how should I behave in a way that it will please Krishna? Like the attendant has to deal with a difficult customer, even if the attendant doesn’t make a sale over there, the boss becomes pleased by the attendant’s cool handling of a difficult customer. Like that, there are some people who are difficult to deal with, and Krishna knows that this is a provocative situation, but we deal with it gracefully, Krishna becomes pleased with us. And then I conclude by talking about how, when we are in a difficult situation, there are three options.
We either change ourselves, in the Pandavas we didn’t initially, we just tolerate it. Second is change the situation, Pandavas fought against the Kauravas. And third is, we just walk away from the situation.
I have better things to do than fight this battle. And which, to adopt at which time, that will depend on time and circumstance, and it will depend on Krishna’s guidance, as it may manifest internally or externally, through our devotee guides. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. Yes. Yes, Karun.
Thank you, Guruji. Thank you, Guruji. I really like this example of the saints at the cloth shop.
My question is very specific to Guruji. Lauren? My question is very specific. I know a devotee, who is super competent, very intelligent, very sincere, and who also got recognised, I am not talking about myself, who was also recognised very well for the devotee’s services.
But now, whatever the devotee attempts, going through very tough time, and very negative experiences with devotee, despite having sincere intent, and sincere attempt, being in a very intelligent way, very sensitive way too. And, if that devotee is here, what would you like to say? Yeah. I am sorry, is that something related with devotee’s karma cycle, or something like that? Yeah.
See, some devotee who is intelligent, talented, dedicated, sensitive, if that devotee initially gets a lot of success, but afterwards, that devotee just, things keep going wrong. What can that devotee do? And that is because of karma. So the interaction between karma and bhakti is actually very complex.
In principle, we understand that when we surrender to Krishna, then Krishna takes away all our karma. But then that also depends on how much we are surrendering to Krishna. And Krishna can sometimes, He takes away our karma, but then He lets some karma come, so that He can reorient us, in case we are getting distracted.
So, our focus should always be on having a vision that is devotional. So, that means, if some devotee is sick, if some very advanced devotee is very sick, and they get some terrible disease, if we start thinking, I thought you are a pure devotee, you got such a terrible disease, that means you must have done a lot of sinful activities. If we start thinking like that, where is the devotional attitude then? Now we should say, that okay, actually, this devotee, this condition, is an opportunity for me to serve this devotee.
So, we should always have a favourable vision. The favourable vision is, that okay, this is an opportunity to serve. When Draupadi is dishonoured, nobody tells her, oh, it is your karma because of which you are dishonoured.
No, they are angry, everybody is angry. Don’t take assertive action about that. So, our vision should always be that, which enables us to make a contribution.
Not that which causes us to pass judgement about others, especially about other devotees. Now from that devotee’s perspective, so what we can see is that, there is something inconceivable happening between this devotee and Krishna. And, my focus should be on how I can serve this devotee.
Now that devotee, that devotee should also have an attitude that is favourable. That devotee should not think, oh, this is actually, Krishna is doing something special in my life. That can also be a thought, but it depends on how the consequence of the consciousness is.
Don’t think, I have done a lot of sinful activities, I am just getting those reactions. Basically, the devotee should also think in such a way, that it helps the devotee go closer to Krishna. If Krishna is making some arrangement in my life, and that inspires me to take shelter of Krishna, that is also positive.
But the point is, whatever events happen in life, the whole process, whole purpose of the study of Bhakti philosophy is to help us translate that event in a way that it becomes favourable for our Bhakti. So you see, Parikshit Maharaj is cursed. And from the point of view of justice, it is outrageous to be sentenced to death for just putting a dead snake around someone.
So unjust. But what does Parikshit Maharaj say? Oh, this is an opportunity for me, to wholeheartedly devote myself to Krishna. And Bhingala, she is a prostitute, and then she doesn’t get accustomed.
And then what happens? She thinks, why did I not get accustomed? She says, actually, I must have done some bad karma, some good karma in my past life, something I have done because Vishnu became pleased with me. And that’s why I became frustrated in my profession today. And from that frustration, detachment has come.
And thus I am able to focus on Bhakti. So now we are saying, in a prostitute’s place, whether a customer is coming or not, Krishna is really looking into that. Somebody may ask from a sceptical point of view like that.
But the point is, we have to look at what is the reason that is favourable for my Bhakti. And that is what the Bhagavatam consistently, consistently helps us to see. So with respect to, if a devotee is going through something like this, we can see that, okay, this is a time when this devotee will be having difficulty, devotee needs some encouragement, some support, some bonding, and we can try to serve in that way if required.
Now from that devotee’s perspective, we can say, whatever is again favourable, it may be that, I am going through a patch of bad karma. So what happens is, that our relationship with Krishna, that means in terms of our inner remembrance of Krishna, our practise of the direct glimpse of Bhakti, especially our inner remembrance of Krishna, that is not dependent on our material circumstances. But to the extent, we are not yet very strongly attached to Krishna, our capacity to remember Krishna and connect with Krishna does depend on the material circumstances.
That means, say, if I am a speaker, in principle I can just study Shastra and I can remember Krishna. But if my main service is speaking and suddenly I get some throat infection which I can’t speak, then I can remember Krishna. But because the normal way of remembering Krishna is not accessible for me, so it becomes more difficult for me.
So now, while that throat infection comes, we could say that, the Kshetra that we have, Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita that, कारे कारण करतुत्वे हेतु प्रकृतुच्छते, पुरुष्या सुख दुखाना मोक्तुत्वे हेतु तुच्छते. So he says, whatever happens, in 13.21, he says that, whatever happens at the material level, that is a product of the transformations of material nature. But whether we get pleasure or pain through that, that depends on our attachment, our desire to enjoy, to control, to do things in that shape.
So, we have to see that, we all go through different phases in our life. And sometimes, it’s like almost whatever you touch, it turns into gold. And sometimes, when we touch gold, it turns into stone.
The exact opposite starts happening. Or sometimes, some good project is going on, and we get into the project, and it starts crumbling down. So, sometimes we just go through phases like this.
So we just have to know that, nothing is permanent. Nothing is permanent. So, if we overreact at that time, this doesn’t work, Krishna doesn’t care, what is this? Then, we may do something, which is very unfortunate.
So, sometimes we have to understand that, this karma will come, and it will cause us some amount of trouble. Like, sometimes there are some leeches, which, they attack the skin, and they start sucking the blood. It can be very scary, when you see the leech on the hand, and I can sense it, like, taking out the blood.
But when the leeches are taking out the blood, at that time, if we try to pull them out, they’ve got such a strong hold, on the skin, that the whole skin will come out. It will become a major wound. But if we just wait at that time, the leech’s capacity to suck blood, is not unlimited.
So, after its tubule gets filled, it will itself let go. And you can flick it off. So like that, sometimes our karma comes like a leech.
And when it comes like a leech, it is sucking blood, it is very difficult to tolerate it. But if we try to overreact, and hope that this will help me get out of suffering, just try to pull it out, I grow in the situation much more. So sometimes we just have to tolerate.
I’ll keep serving Krishna, even if I don’t get the results. And, when we try to enjoy material things, the problem with the material enjoying those things is that, they are temporary. But that thing which is problematic, when we are seeking enjoyment, that becomes a blessing when we are suffering.
Because just as, the enjoyment is temporary in this world, even the suffering is temporary. So no matter, how big the problem seems to be right now, it’s a patch. It’s not going to be there permanently.
So if we tolerate, then it will get over. So if that devotee has some, other good relationship with some other devotees, so quite often, we form different kinds of relationships. Some relationships are formed, because, let’s say if we are doing a lot of nice service, then people just want to associate somebody who is well-known.
And then, it’s just a normal human tendency, it happens in the devotee community also. So we are well-known, then people don’t associate with us. And then if we are not well-known, if we are, because of some reason we are not well-known, then those people treat us as if we are unknown.
But they don’t care for us. They are like fair-weather friends. But, we will also find that there are some friends, who stick to us.
So at that time, we need to draw on those friends more. And also, if we have found a service, which, which we have got a taste in, then irrespective of whether we get result or not in that service, we can move on. I talked about, in the last session about, turning our heart towards Krishna, that can be discussed about this moment.
But generally, knowing that it is, it is a bad phase I am going through, we just tolerate it. It will get over. We have in the 8th Canto, when Bali Maharaj is being defeated, he is being arrested, all his associates come and they say, it’s unfair, they want to fight against the devatas and Vishnu has arrested them.
Bali Maharaj says, Kaal is not favourable to us now. Don’t do anything to him now. Just tolerate.
So we all sometimes go through a phase when time is not favourable. It’s best to tolerate it. Very good.
Yes. Thank you. Yes.
Thank you very much. Thank you. You spoke about your conscious situation, the change oneself, change another person, a walk away.
Yeah. But it seems that sometimes there is a circumstance where, you might need to subtly adjust the situation, not change the other person, change yourself, a walk away, but there might be a tweak to the circumstance, that could just adjust, that everybody, you know, make sure that it’s a better situation, that they would respond better to one another in the situation. Yeah, that’s definitely possible.
I could change the situation and change the person, together in one category. Sometimes we could be like, that person can’t change, but then maybe that person does some other service, or there’s some slight other focus in their service, so that our interaction with them is a little less. That tweaking is always possible.
But also for the second category, just doing some adjustment. Thank you. You were speaking about the Pandavas, and maybe you can help me understand a little bit deeper, and one thing that is difficult for me to understand in the Mahabharata, the Pandavas are being treated, in my opinion, very badly by their superiors, by their elders, but they still keep on respecting them, even though they don’t treat them nicely.
How can someone learn to respect, even though he’s being mistreated again and again, by superiors of people who he wants to respect, but it’s difficult to respect them. So in the Mahabharata, the Pandavas are treated badly, not just by the Kauravas, but even by their own elders, whom they are respecting every day. So should we also do something similar, and if yes, how do we do that? Actually, there are two different ways of looking at it.
One is from the transcendental perspective, and the other is from the circumstantial perspective. From the transcendental perspective, say when Draupadi was being disrobed, at that time, Bhishma, Drona, they all, Bhishma was a very powerful person, why did he remain silent? From the transcendental perspective, we understand that, Krishna wanted to demonstrate his principle, that ultimately we have no protector other than Krishna. And everybody was orchestrated for that purpose.
Yudhishthira was gambling to some extent. Bhishma was saying, I don’t know what to do, this is Yudhishthira. So ultimately, it was that purpose.
That’s from the transcendental perspective, that Krishna demonstrated that, when you have no one to protect you, even when there are so many people who can protect you, but you have no one to protect, at that time we have only Krishna to protect. So this is the way in which, by looking at it in this way, we can avoid becoming critical of all these great characters, who are there in the Mahabharata. At the same time, the Mahabharata can also be analysed, for drawing moral lessons.
So Yudhishthira Prabhupada also adopts the two approaches. In the first chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, Prabhupada primarily says, Arjuna is positive. He is soft hearted, he is sensitive, he is pure, he is so considerate about others.
And so, in the second chapter, most of the purports Prabhupada is saying, Arjuna is crying, here is the sign of ignorance and attachment. And then he says that, actually to identify with the body, skin is missing. And once one is attached, the person is always in perplexity.
Arjuna is in perplexity, therefore he is a spiritual master. Arjuna is in perplexity, therefore he is a spiritual master. So, Prabhupada also uses the example, that on one level, we see it is all orchestrated by the Lord.
On another level, we can also learn some practical lessons. So, from the practical perspective, the Kuru enders, they were paralysed by their conflicted loyalties. Conflicted loyalties.
In Bhishma, he naturally was affectionate towards the Pandavas. Because, many reasons. First of all, they were very cultured, respectful, sensitive.
And another was, that they did not have a father. So, he felt, I have more responsibility for them. So, he had an affection for them.
On the other hand, he had taken a vow, that he would always support the Kuru king. And, when he took that vow, he would never have thought that, wicked bear like Dhritarashtra and Duryodhana would be ruling. So, he was bound by his own vow.
And he felt that, I cannot directly go against him. So, they also had their conflicted loyalties. So, sometimes, even those who, from our perspective, seem to be in positions of power, and they are not doing anything, they may also have their own pressures, of which we are not aware.
You can do something so easy. They have so many other things to consider, that, that we don’t know about. There was a US president, maybe some of you know about him.
He once said that, after he finished his power, 4 years, after his tenure, when he got over, what was your experience? He said, throughout my tenure, I was feeling like, I was shouting on a phone, with nobody at the other end. So, although, the president is supposed to be the most powerful person in the country, but, the president also has so many pressure questions, that he has to take care of, you know, satisfy this person, otherwise, so many things can go wrong. So, from the external perspective, it appears that somebody has a lot of power.
But actually, when you go into that situation, they have power, but their power is also contained by so many things. So, now, still, if they have power, so, from a moral perspective, Bhishma is remaining silent, when Draupadi was disrobed. That is wrong.
And Prabhupada also talks about this, in the second chapter, he says, because they remained silent, they deserve to be punished. And they, Arjuna was, had the duty to kill them, as a punishment, for their remaining silent, Tamil characteristic. So, in circumstantial ways also, we can look at it.
So, they had conflicted loyalties, and, they, they had, different duties, and they could not decide, which duty is more important. So, there is, there is, what is called a moral dilemma, and there is an ethical dilemma. Moral dilemma means, one choice is moral, the other choice is immoral.
And at that time, what is required, basically, is some strength of character, some moral strength. We have to resist the immoral temptation, and to act morally. But there is sometimes, in the ethical dilemma, that means, there are two choices, both of them are moral, and which is a higher morality.
Deciding that becomes difficult. So, in this case, now, from the perspective of distance, you know, Draupadi is being dishonoured. Now, what is the point of your vow, because, who is with Nishma, of a honourable lady is being dishonoured in public.
You have to stop it, that is your duty. We may feel this from the, from the, when we see from the, benefit of distance, we feel like that. But, Mahabharata, really, is a culture, where, people consider their word, very important.
Honouring one’s word, was considered, even more important, in honouring one’s life. And, so for him, at that time, he just couldn’t decide. Should I do this, or should I do that? So, from the Pandavas’ perspective, so this is, I am talking sometimes, if we find that, those who are senior, they are not supporting us, they can support, and they should support, at that time, we should, give them the benefit of doubt, and say that, I don’t know what pressures, they are in, because of which, they are not doing the right thing.
But, this does not mean, that we have to, ourselves, continue to be victims. The Pandavas, they waited, when Nishma will talk, when Nishma will not talk, they took, it in their own hands. So, they fought over it.
So, ultimately, we have to make sure, that our service to Krishna, goes on. So, usually, we need, some facilities, some support, from some seniors, so that they do their service. And, if that is not coming, then we may have to find, some other way, which we can continue, our service to Krishna.
So, the principle is that, rather than, judging whether, others are doing right or wrong, we focus on, doing that, which is, necessary for ourselves. So, thinking that, oh, my seniors are being, are, neglecting their duty, they are just being silent, they are doing this, they are doing that, that, attitude towards the seniors, is not very favourable. So, we can avoid that attitude.
I don’t know what, they are in, what pressure they are in, I don’t know. So, we give them the benefit of doubt, and leave it at that. But, at the same time, being in the situation, where I am being neglected, where I am being, treated badly, this is not favourable, for my emotional and spiritual well-being.
So, I need to, I need to create my space, by which I can continue my service. So, how do I do that? That, we have to use our own intelligence, and, use our own resourcefulness, and find that out. So, so, the important thing is that, we continue our service to Krishna.
And if we keep this principle in mind, it’s very striking, this principle, except that it’s favourable, and I think that it’s unfavourable. Why is it striking? Because these, are talked about, as the first two, among the six elements of surrender. Normally, we think of surrender as passive.
Oh, I will not properly surrender to Krishna. Raise your hand and surrender. Yes, that is one way of surrender.
But, we see, Krishna tells Arjuna, at the end of the Bhagavad Gita, surrender. And Arjuna says, yes, I will surrender. But, in Arjuna’s surrender, his surrender is not raising his hand up.
Arjuna’s surrender is, raising his bow up for fighting. So, sometimes surrender means, raising one’s hand in helplessness. Sometimes, surrender means, raising one’s bow for fighting.
surrender can have different forms at different times. And, this is, so, what, in the six elements of surrender, which I talked about here, the first two, are very active. This is favourable, this is unfavourable, I will avoid it.
So, surrender, when we see it from this perspective, is actually a very active, active activity. It is not a passive, the other four are there, which are dispositions. Oh, having faith that Krishna will protect me, I am dependent on Krishna, I am nothing without Krishna, Krishna will maintain me.
Those are dispositions, which will come over a period of time as we mature in our life. We can’t have that disposition over life. But, these two are things which can always do, whatever situation we are in.
And, if we have this, this attitude of, ok, surrendering to Krishna means, I have to accept that as favourable, and accept that as unfavourable. Then, we place the initiative on ourselves. Ok, this is not favourable, I’ll move away from here.
And, this is favourable, I’ll move over here. I’ll do it this way, I’ll do it this way. We keep moving onwards in our relationship with Krishna.
Does that answer your question? Thank you. Thank you very much. So, we’ll have a break for 10 minutes, and we’ll meet at 11.