Prahlad M prayers 3 – Making Misery an incentive for bhakti

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
so everybody in this world is under three modes and they act according to three modes and they are not free so in the previous verse he said actually as long as you are you neglect somebody they cannot be protected then Prahlad Maharaj now is talking about what is the relationship between Krishna and the world this world is controlled by the three modes but you are the controller of the three modes therefore this world solutions will work only when you sanction them if you don’t sanction them they will not work medicine will work but only when Krishna sanctions because this world is working under the three modes and the three modes are working under Krishna then he says then ok if Krishna is spiritual and if we are also spiritual then why have we come in this world maya manah sujati karma mayam baliyaha maya manah our mind has come under the influence of maya karma mayam karma mayam means it is filled with the desire for karma I have to do this, I have to achieve this, I have to get that karma mayam it is filled with karma and then he goes into a little philosophy over here so actually the mind entraps the living entity in unlimited varieties of desires to be fulfilled by vedic directions of karma kanda and the sixteen elements sixteen elements refer to the five senses, the five sense objects the five working senses and the mind so then he says, I am just rushing through this because we want to focus on some important points then after that he says swatvam hi nitya vijitatma gunasvadhamna he says my dear lord you are transcendental and I am being crushed in the material world chakre visrushtam ajayeshwara shodasare nishpidya manam upakarasya vibhoprapannam so it is like a hierarchy, Krishna is here jiva is here and maya is here matter is here so we are above matter as souls so actually he is talking over here how the normal hierarchy gets reversed what is the normal hierarchy the normal hierarchy is that there are these three principles we can use the alliteration of ja to remember this jagadish is greater than the jiva and the jiva is greater than the jagat so these three they are the three main components of existence the matter, the living entity and god so normally jagadish is greater than jiva and then the jiva is greater than jagat because jagat is unconscious jagat is not living it is made of dead matter but when we reject jagadish then what happens the jiva becomes controlled by the jagat the jiva becomes less than jagat jiva becomes controlled by the jagat how does that happen, so we have jagadish, jiva and jagat, you remove jagadish then it becomes like this then the jagat controls the jiva how does material nature control us we can look at it at different levels one time shila prabhupada was having a morning walk with a young man and he said because we are all left krishna so we are all bound now we are not free I am free, nobody is controlling me no you are not free he says you will become old you will get disease, you will die do you want that he says no but nobody can force me to grow old he said what do you mean nobody can force you, you will have to grow old isn’t it that boy said actually that is just biology so prabhupada says that means biological force that means biological force so biological force will make us do something which we don’t want to do so we are not free in that sense so prabhupada in a hindi lecture says koi buddha nahi hona chahata hai par prakriti sabko chupcha buddha mananati hai chupcha buddha mananati hai helplessly we are forced to become old helplessly we are forced to get diseased and die ultimately so this is one level we understand that the jiva is controlled by the jagat although i want to do so many things when i grow old i can’t do that but at a deeper level how does the jagat control the jiva it is by controlling our desires controlling our desires when we talk about bondage or liberation in one sense i am free to go here i am free to go there, where am i bound but i am bound by my desires in the instructions that yamaraj gives to his yamadutas in the 6th canto he uses the word baddha trushna trushna is desires, baddha is bound he says our desires are bound now how can our desires be bound very interesting phrase baddha trushna means he says that actually no matter what we do if we don’t become krishna conscious ultimately our desires come down to eating, sleeping, mating differently ultimately whatever we do even if somebody claims to go to the moon even if they go to the moon what will they do after going there maybe they will drink some champagne over there what is that, that is just another form of eating isn’t it or say somebody does something wonderful what do they somebody may say i am playing cricket or i am playing chess, this is not eating, sleeping, mating differently, it may not directly seem to be eating, sleeping, mating differently when we say that everything apart from dharma dharme nahina pashuvi sama that was in the mahabharat that is talking not about the forms of the activities, that is talking about the purposes of the activities in form we human beings can do so many things which animals can’t do we can write books we can make music we can build huge edifices, huge buildings we can have civilisations, we can do many things which animals can’t do because we humans have a advanced intelligence but the question is for what purpose are we doing it ultimately if we do not know about devotional service then it all boils down to the purpose of eating, sleeping, mating differently and eating, sleeping, mating differently have nothing to do with the soul they are needs of the body they are needs of the body eating, sleeping, mating differently are just the needs of the body and we can’t deny them we can’t deny them we have to fulfil them and even animals fulfil them but what happens is our desires get caught up in them so this, what he is talking about here bondage the mind binds the living entity this was the verse which we were looking at nishpidya manu upakarsya vibhoprapannam so consider a person say who is who is got addicted to say smoking imagine there were two students so this was the hostel this was the college and in between there is a cigarette shop so now both of them when they came to the hostel they had no experience of smoking now one of them decides that my parents have told me i should not smoke, i will not smoke just passes by the shop and neglects it and then when he passes by he doesn’t even think about it but the other student thinks you know let’s have some fun let us enjoy, let us try, experiment something so he goes and smokes once and now if he smokes once what happens is ashaapashashatairbaddha asha is like a pash so next time pash means noose or a rope so next time when he is passing by cigarette shop, what happens again the thought comes if he again smokes then the rope becomes thicker then what happens is if he keeps smoking like this after a few days as soon as he starts out of the hostel his mind is already there in the shop he is thinking i will smoke like this and then afterwards even if he gets out of the hostel still his mind is there and even if he reaches his classroom his body is in the class but his mind is in the cigarette so what has happened is the mind is what has got bound so bondage is of the mind so now with respect to cigarette we can understand it we have the word addiction addiction means when he gets bound but for the soul in general to get his thoughts caught in matter yes, this material thing will make me happy, this material thing will enable me to do something this whole thing is actually an illusion so what is the bondage the bondage is in the mind the mind gets filled with desire that becomes stronger and stronger by indulgence so it’s like a rope is there so every time what happens is every indulgence makes the rope of desire thicker and tighter two things happen it becomes thicker and tighter that means thicker means it is more difficult to cut off and tighter means it pulls us harder it gives us lesser and lesser freedom so some person he might have smoked say only once in a lifetime but then afterwards he keeps smoking smoking, he can’t stop smoking even for one hour every one hour he has to smoke every one hour what has happened the rope has become so tight that even for one hour he can’t rest without it we have people in your offices or in your acquaintances you may know people who can’t live without tea now tea is certainly not a necessity but what has happened is indulgence has made them more and more bound so when we reject Jagdish then the Jeeva comes under Jagat so I discussed at two levels one is that the body restricts us we have to grow old, get diseased and die but more importantly the mind binds us, the mind restricts us we have to do this we have to do that to fulfil these desires this is how the natural hierarchy of the soul gets reversed instead of he being the controller of matter he becomes controlled by matter he becomes controlled by matter so after this the next verse he says Drishtamayo divyabhu akhila dhishnepanam so now he is going on the point why do you say that you are nishpidyamanam you are being crushed by matter you can control matter so he says that does this always have to happen that Jeeva becomes controlled by Jagat can the Jeeva not control the Jagat he says no my dear lord it is not possible because I saw my own father I saw my father Drishtamayo by my eyes I saw Divyabhu Akhila dhishnepanam everybody in the universe he was controlling and what happened vispurjitena lulita sate nirastaha when you just in one moment everything was destroyed ye asmat pithu kupitaha sa vajrumbita pithu is my father kupitaha when he would get angry and laugh sarcastically or raise his eyebrows everybody would tremble that means Hiranyakashyapu had achieved control over the Jagat like nobody can achieve we know how it was practically now it is too hot let it become cool now it is not a mango season but I want mangoes let mangoes grow material nature was working according to his dictates but how long he seemed to be on the pinnacle of power but in one moment everything was finished actually Hiranyakashyapu performed austerity for 10,000 years but then he actually ruled as the king of the universe for only 5 years because after he came back from his tapasya then Kayadu had asked for a blessing that let my son be born she had asked Narguni for a blessing that let my son be born only after my husband comes back so then Hiranyakashyapu impregnated her then went to perform tapasya then he performed tapasya and came back then Prahlad was born and by the time Prahlad became 5 his behaviour became so intolerable for Hiranyakashyapu that he was going to kill him and then Narasimhadev came and killed him so he struggled to become the controller of Jagat so he tried to become the controller of Jagat for 10,000 years he was the controller for 5 years just look at the time 10,000 years of severe austerity 5 years of some control and then everything is lost and Bhagavatam further says that even when he had controlled nature completely still he was not happy why? because he says he had controlled the nature he had not controlled his mind and senses so we may wonder why does he need to control his mind and senses normally we think that I have to control my mind and senses because if I am too poor then I can’t get what I want to enjoy or if I am a moral person then I don’t want to do something immoral now Hiranyakashyapu was not poor Hiranyakashyapu had no care for morality so then why did he have to control his mind and senses now he did not have to control his mind and senses for any external reason but there is an internal limitation what is the internal limitation? that our mind’s desires will always be more than our senses capacity our mind’s desires will always be more than our senses capacity like in the morning I was giving the example I may like some malpua and it is available unlimited for me I can eat as much as I want but still when I stop eating it is not so much because I am satisfied but because my stomach is saturated I can’t eat anything more so the problem with material enjoyment is that our mind’s desires are always more than our body’s capacity and that is why material enjoyment can never satisfy us so even during those 5 years Hiranyakashyapu was not happy so it is very difficult to control the Jagat but even if one controls Jagat still one will not be happy because the mind will always want something which is beyond our capacity either our external financial capacity or our internal bodily capacity so now therefore he says he had everything but he lost everything people in general want these things they want long duration of life, opulence, enjoyment but I have seen all this with my father and nothing helped him anymore he was so angry when he was angry even the demigods would tremble yet my father who was so powerful has now been vanquished by you within a moment so then he says so the previous so what do I want then so in this verse he says what I want he says therefore my dear lord know that what all living beings want I don’t want it I don’t want this, why I don’t want it because by your Vikram, by your power as time you will destroy everything in just one moment so what is it that survives beyond time I want that and what is that nija-vritya-parshvam is the association of your servant the association of your devotees so now Prahlad Maharaj is taking a transition he is saying actually nothing material is satisfying what is satisfying, what is lasting is the association of your devotees actually Prahlad Maharaj had the association of only one devotee, that is Narad Muni so he will come to this point once again after the verse 25 but 25 was the verse which we just now recited so here I discussed earlier about how material enjoyment leads to frustration futility, insubstantiality and temporality now I will focus on this point of ashesya-rujam-viroha Prabhupada translates this as the body is the breeding ground for unlimited diseases so here so here so you know somebody may argue my body your body may be diseased but my body is quite healthy even if it is healthy we look at this acronym D.I.V. Deep into Krishna Consciousness so this D.I.V. indicates four ways we can understand how the body is a source of misery and not a source of pleasure so D is duration if somebody argues that no I can get enjoyment from my body so just compare how much time can the body give us pleasure and how much time can the body give us pain now if I want to eat actually the eating pleasure is for a few minutes I can’t eat 24 hours a day although my craving for pleasure is 24 hours a day and even the whole society glamorises the pleasure of sex but actually the pleasure lasts for a few minutes so the body’s capacity for pleasure is for a few minutes but what about the body’s capacity for pain sometimes some people get some terrible cancers and if they are screaming for months together the only way they stop screaming is if they are given some painkillers severe painkillers or they are given some sleeping pills so compare to that hours and hours months and months of pain is there any pleasure that can compare to that that the body can offer sometimes some people get some back aches so at that time constant pain is there what pleasure is there that the body can offer that is comparable in duration no this doesn’t even require any faith in scripture this requires some dispassionate and logical analysis if you look at the time duration the time duration for which the body can offer pleasure is very tiny the time duration for which the body can cause pain is enormous so first is duration then I is intensity intensity means actually our body is sensitised to pain far more than pleasure suppose you know I am eating rasgulla and a nice big rasgulla is there I am just relishing every single drop of it and the whole rasgulla has spread all over my tongue I want to get as much pleasure as possible so I have spread the liquid of the rasgulla all over my tongue and I was trying to relish it suddenly I bite my tongue now actually speaking the area over which the tongue is biting is very small as compared to the area where the rasgulla’s juice is spread but what happens is I have practical realisation of this Krishna says you can actually experience it so what happens is the area if you see of pain is very small the area of pleasure is a lot but what happens is our body is so sensitised to pain that when the tongue is bitten by the tooth I forget all the rasgulla juice that is there on the rest of the tongue I remember only the point where the pain is there the intensity of the pain is much much greater than the intensity of pleasure or another example you know we have this Ayurvedic centre over here so we can do massage so imagine somebody is lying on a very soft bed and very soft tender hands are massaging the body of course Ayurvedic massage may not be soft and tender it is sometimes a little vigorous because it is more for health purposes but suppose a person is being massaged by very soft tender hands and then at that time somebody just pricks a tiny pin in one part of the body what happens is there I am in a soft bed a very soothing sensation for the rest of the body but one millimetre of the skin experiences that pain and all the pleasure is forgotten so the intensity of the pain that we can experience is far greater than the intensity of the pleasure now the poets may glorify that in the male female relationship there is a lot of pleasure but actually as compared to the pain the intensity of the pain it is not much intensity of the pain is much greater and again as in the duration can also be much greater then V is Variety Variety means if I look at my tongue what are the ways in which the tongue can give me pleasure maybe I can eat something maybe I can sing something maybe people can touch some pleasurable object with their tongue but the tongue can be cut the tongue can be burnt the tongue can have an ulcer on it so many ways or sometimes some peculiar disease may come up by which any movement of the tongue starts causing pain actually if we look at the amount of ways in which each organ can give us pain in the tongue we may feel a lot of ways in which I can feel pain but if we see there are so many diseases related with the mouth Avarachandra proves from hospitals in hospitals in medicine there is a whole field of dentistry which is separate from normal allopathic medicine that means there are so many diseases related with the mouth there are not so many pleasures related with the mouth the variety of ways in which the body can give us pain is far greater or if I look at my eyes I can look at some beautiful things that may give me some pleasure but I may scratch scratch my eyes, somebody may punch my eyes some sharp object may go in my eyes I may get conductivities or my optical nerve may get damaged there are so many ways in which the eyes can cause me pain so if we just objectively analyse the varieties of ways in which our body can give us pain is far greater than the variety of ways in which the body can give us pleasure if I think of my little finger now actually speaking how can the little finger give me pleasure may be if something is stuck in my nose I pull it out it’s a relief, it’s not even pleasure but little finger, some hot water may spill on it or I may just holding a door and somebody closes the door and the finger gets crushed or while cutting the nail I may pull out too much of the nail or say the blade something may get cut there are so many ways in which each part of the body can give us pain and the variety of ways in which the body can give us pain is far greater than the variety of ways in which the body can give us pleasure so we are discussing all this the body is the breeding place of unlimited misery and is extent extent means which are the parts of the body that can give us pleasure they are primarily the senses primarily the knowledge acquiring senses and to some extent the working senses I can see something, I can touch something I can punch someone I may get some pleasure by that so the senses are the parts of the body that can give me pleasure but is there any way by which my kidney can give me pleasure there is no way but is there any way the kidney can give me pain there are so many ways, so many diseases there are so many organs in the body that we don’t even know but each organ can cause us pain is there any way my small intestine can give me pleasure my gallbladder can give me pleasure my medulla oblongata can give me pleasure but each of these can cause pain there are diseases related to each of these in fact many of these there are specialisations where doctors specialise in so many in curing so many diseases so if I look at the body overall the parts of the body that can give me pleasure are few whereas the parts of the body that can give me pleasure are 100% every single part of the body can give me pain therefore अशेष रुजाम विरोह the body is primarily a source of suffering and it is not just some pessimism it is just reality now we may be able to enjoy with our body but that is only transitional actually speaking the body is much more prone to give us suffering so Prahlad Maharaj in this way analyses how material happiness is not a reality, it is just a phantasmagoria then he goes forward and he says before I go to the next part any questions on this? it is a little sobering analysis but it is once Shri Prabhupada was asked what is required for us to go back to Godhead? what is the most important qualification? so there are different answers that Shri Prabhupada gave but on this particular occasion he said be convinced that this world is a place of misery and want to get out of it this sort of analysis can help us to become convinced that this world is a place of misery so we may have our dreams and bhakti doesn’t mean that we have to give up our dreams we may want to achieve something in material life which is fine, we can go ahead and achieve it but we shouldn’t think that fulfilling those dreams will make me happy we fulfil those dreams because Krishna has given us some talents and we can utilise those talents to even glorify Krishna through fulfilling our dreams, we can become wealthy we can become famous, we can become whatever we want to, that’s not wrong but the idea that these things will make me happy that is a recipe for suffering rather if we understand that only my relationship with Krishna will make me happy that doesn’t mean I give up material life but I subordinate my material life to my spiritual purposes so let’s move forward there are no questions, I’ll move forward yeah 7, 9, 25, this one yeah will you please just give a little more explanation of these two okay yes, Ashesha, Rujam, Viroha I explained I did not explain the next two lines so much so, in one sense is indirectly glorifying Krishna this may not what is there to offer as a prayer even the wise people cannot give up sense gratification this is indirect glorification, he is telling Krishna you are so powerful so your maya is so powerful that even the wise people cannot become free from maya so later on he will tell that it is only your bhaktas by the mercy of your devotees by the mercy of their spiritual master, they can become free from maya so this is indirect glorification of Krishna by saying Krishna you are so powerful and that is reflected in how powerful your maya is, so even people with intelligence cannot become free from it so sometimes people ask this question, is there pleasure in the material world or is there no pleasure so Prahlad Maharaj gives two different answers in the same words one he says means mirage if we say a mirage, in a mirage there is no water that means it would seem that there is no pleasure in material life, material existence but somebody will say how can you say that there is pleasure in this world ok there is pleasure but it is madhula vayi, it is very very tiny so in general as devotees when we want to give up our attachment to material pleasures the focus has to be more on not just cultivating our intelligence, cultivating our intelligence is important but more important than that is practising bhakti, this is a good point we talk about purifying ourselves so what does purification entail, so consider this example that our mind is presently like a child the intelligence should be like the mother the doctor is the guru and the holy name is the medicine so I will explain this suppose a child is deceased and the child is deceased the child doesn’t even want to go to the doctor he says I am ok but the mother takes the child to the doctor and then the doctor diagnoses the child and the doctor gives the medicine and the doctor gives the medicine, does the child want to take the medicine the medicine may taste bitter, the child says I don’t want it but then what does the mother have to do, sometimes the mother will have to catch the mouth of the child and force him to drink it, so like that the doctor is the guru our mind is like a child it is very restless it doesn’t understand what is good what is bad, just wants to fool around in material existence but our intelligence has to mature like the mother and what is the role of the mother the mother herself doesn’t know the cure for the disease but the mother knows and the doctor knows and if I follow the doctor’s direction then my child will get cured so the mother has an important job what is the mother’s job to ensure that the child follows the doctor’s instruction and takes the medicine so just as a doctor will not always be there with the patient whether the patient takes the medicine or not the doctor cannot determine that the doctor will just give the prescription and go away like that our spiritual master or our counsellor they are not going to be there with us always they will go and get their association, they will give us some instructions but after that they will go they will go away so then who will ensure that we take the medicine that is we have to ensure with our intelligence so when if you remove the lower two, if you remove the guru and the holy name then what is left is just the mind and the intelligence the mind and the intelligence can keep battling but the mind will overpower the intelligence because without a process without a process to cure a disease will power alone is not enough so I will come to this point of will power little later but this example I will complete so when we go to the association of devotees, when we hear from the spiritual master the spiritual master does not preach to our mind he preaches to our intelligence because the mind does not care for anything and the spiritual master strengthens our intelligence then we have to use our intelligence to control our mind so when we use our intelligence evam buddhe param buddhva samsthapya atmanam atmana jaishatru mahabahu kamarupam durasadam in 3rd chapter 43rd verse Lord Krishna says that evam buddhe with intelligence control your mind so therefore what we are doing in classes like this is we are all trying to strengthen our intelligence and I am also speaking all this but it is not that I am sense control my mind is also devilish but by speaking this, by hearing this by discussing and contemplating this slowly we strengthen our intelligence but the intelligence alone does not know the solution the solution is given by the spiritual master the intelligence role is to apply the solution given by the spiritual master, so when Prahlad Maharaj is saying in this verse that vidvan even the vidvan don’t know how to control it he is talking about those people who do not go to the guru they think by my intelligence I will control my desires that will not work why will it not work? because if I have a disease then will power alone is not enough to cure the disease suppose suppose a person has loose motion and he says by my will power I will not go to respond he is stupid he will torture himself, no I will not or somebody has got a cough by my will power I will not cough I will just cough he can’t stop it so will power alone is not enough to cure a disease that doesn’t mean will power is useless will power has to be used to follow the instruction of the doctor if I have got a loose motion the doctor will tell take only soup for the next two days then I have to use my will power to follow that, doctor will take this medicine morning afternoon, I have to use my will power so will power alone is not enough but will power is useful for following the doctor’s instruction then I can get cured so similarly the Bhagavatam describes just before the Prahlad Maharaj pastime starts that actually the emotions of our like lust, anger, greed they are diseases of the mind so if I am feeling lusty, if I am feeling greedy, if I am feeling angry then just no I will not feel lusty I will not feel angry, I will not feel greedy that’s not going to work because the disease is already there disease has to be cured by the doctor’s process and the doctor’s process is chanting the holy names remembering Krishna when we remember Krishna what happens is like if the child has a disease, the disease gets cured so somebody having to go for loose motion, somebody having to cough, that is the symptom of the disease just suppressing the symptom is not going to help suppressing the symptoms will just be torture like Mataji was asking the question about somebody has the feeling, I just want to go out and speak my way if that feeling is there, that is because there is some pride right now but just suppressing the pride is not going to work I have to regulate it and ultimately I have to purify it and cure it so the process is bhakti that’s why many times we will see that if we attend some seminars on japa, on the importance of the holy name and then we chant we are able to chant better, it is not that the holy name is revealing some new power at that time, what is happening is our intelligence has become strengthened and so we are controlling the mind more and because we are controlling the mind more we are able to chant better we get more taste in the holy name that’s how it works is it clear to you? any other questions? yes Haribhav, you told here every intelligence makes the ropes desire thicker every indulgence makes the rope desire thicker and tighter so here we see sometimes if we have not committed a sin so it is very easy to say no to it but once we commit it becomes very difficult to say no because it gets so is this only happened with the material desire or in the spiritual also the same principle work but normally we see it is the other way around, spiritually we may be doing so many things but then once we doesn’t do it then immediately we are not able to do it the next day but why it is very good question so why is it that spiritually repeating the activity doesn’t increase our desire for the activity just the way materially it does actually spiritually things work at a much deeper level sometimes I will just take a more extreme example then I will come back to the point sometimes some devotee may be practising devotional service and then he may just give up, he may fall away now after somebody falls away coming back is sometimes quite difficult because one starts thinking what will other people think of me and all my equals have become seniors and this and that so it becomes quite difficult when Krishna says what we accumulate on the spiritual path is never lost it always stays with us what is it that stays with us actually and sometimes we may say that some very devotees who are at least seem to be very advanced, somebody may be sanyasis also, they may also have some difficulties so then what is it that is actually stored somebody falls away then it seems that everything is lost so what is it that is stored is our attraction to Krishna Krishna talks about he mentions this first in 2.40 in the Bhagavad Gita and then he elaborates on this theme in the 6th chapter from verses 6.37 to 6.45, there Arjuna asks the question, what happens to the yogi who is not able to attain success and there Krishna says what is it in 2.43 and 2.44 by the past practise riyate is one is helplessly attracted helplessly means helplessly so what happens is there are two principles now one is that we by our daily practise of Krishna consciousness are increasing our attraction to Krishna but beyond the attraction to Krishna that we have developed we have our free will and we have the mind which always tempts us to use the free will in the wrong way so there are three factors first is I have developed my attraction to Krishna, developing my attraction to Krishna means that when I remember Krishna, when I serve Krishna I feel happy, I like it but even if I like it I have my free will and by my free will I can turn towards Krishna, I can turn away from Krishna even when I have attraction to Krishna still I have my free will and although I get a taste in I actually get happiness in Krishna consciousness still my mind has so many desires for Sanskritification and my mind keeps alluring my free will in the wrong direction that means here is the mind here I am I and my free will is here and here is Krishna and my attraction to Krishna but here is my mind and it is attracting me towards Maya so if I go this way I will get happiness but my mind keeps dragging me this way keeps dragging me this way and if I listen to my mind too much even when I have a lot of attraction to Krishna I may be spiritually advanced but still if I listen to my mind I will go away I will go towards Maya and when I go towards Maya at an external level I may fall down terribly I may break the regulative principles also but my attraction to Krishna is still there and if I turn back to Krishna that happiness in Krishna conscious is something which I can still experience so what stays forever is our attraction to Krishna that attraction to Krishna is often not apparent to us because our mind keeps screaming very loudly I want this I want this this is going wrong that is going this way so in one sense the attraction to Krishna is subconscious whereas the conscious level the mind is screaming a lot but Narada Muni tells Vyasadev that one who has tasted the nectar of Krishna’s lotus feet such a person can never undergo material life again means what not like the materialist the person may try to enjoy sense gratification but because one has tasted something much higher one will not get happiness in sense gratification we can do sense gratification but we will not get happiness in sense gratification but still we have our free will and we still have our mind which is dragging us away if we keep listening to the mind then we may go deep into Maya but still our attraction to Krishna is there and if we turn towards Krishna it can all be reclaimed it can all be revived so we have attraction to Krishna but we have to act on that attraction so there is a nice lecture of Radhanath Maharaj is called a fallen devotee is most miserable so in that lecture he says among all the 8.4 million species the most miserable species in material existence is a fallen devotee the most miserable species is a fallen devotee why because materialistic people at least think that they are enjoying because they have not tasted something higher a devotee has tasted something higher so therefore a devotee cannot enjoy sense gratification even if he or she wants to so what happens in this case is when I said if somebody falls away it is very difficult for that person to come back because the mind which was dragged us away it brings other factors brings our ego, brings our prestige, brings public perception about us into the picture but if somebody is focused only on the attraction to Krishna then he understands ok I had all that prestige earlier and because of that I was not able to taste the sweetness of Krishna consciousness now Krishna has taken away all that prestige now my motive for coming back to Krishna it will only be Krishna because everything else that Krishna consciousness was giving me it is not giving that to me now earlier I was getting honour as a senior devotee, earlier I was getting respect from others, earlier I had a post, leadership position so in that sense these extraneous considerations they make it difficult for us to come back to Krishna consciousness but if somehow somebody who has fallen away comes back the taste in core Krishna consciousness is still there that will never go away and that’s how actually speaking we will see many of Srila Prabhupada’s senior disciples they were born in places where they never heard about Krishna but still they were so attracted to spirituality so we don’t have to speculate some of them may have come from the spiritual world Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission but several of them may be very evolved persons from past life who are very attracted to Krishna now now going further now Prabhupada generally translates one will never fall away one will never lose human form of life he says that what is the great danger that bhakti protects us from one will never lose human form of life but we see that Bharat Maharaj lost the human form of life when he was attracted to deer he lost the human form of life then where was the protection the protection was that his attraction to Krishna still remained so although he had a deer body he had not a deer consciousness he had not even average human consciousness he had devotee consciousness and that’s why as a deer he was not searching for places where he will get green grass he was searching for places where there were devotees and he was to hear Krishna katha there is a senior ISKCON leader Janananda Maharaj he has written one of the most amazing books that you can ever find it is called Animals in Krishna Consciousness have any of you read that book ok Animals in Krishna Consciousness it’s very beautiful book so what he has described in that that in different temples in different parts of the world for example Malaysia I remember the story every evening at the time of Gaurarti one dog would come and just stand outside the temple in front of the deities and through the door look and take darshan and the devotees were thinking what is this dog coming they tried to shoo it away the dog would never bark or be violent just go a little distance away and sit over there sit over there and again take darshan and everyday he would come and over a period of time they understood that this is not an ordinary dog this dog is so in animal life we cannot begin we cannot begin devotional service but we can continue devotional service in animal bodies we cannot begin devotional service but if somebody has begun devotional service in a previous human form then that can be continued on even in animal form now we may say that why did Bharat Maharaj have to get animal body that is because he thought of animal at the time of death that is a law of there are material laws and there are spiritual principles material laws will work in material ways like Dr. Alva was telling just because you are a great devotee that doesn’t mean that you can walk on the railway tracks when the railway is coming material laws will work at the material level so what we think of at the time of death that is what we will get so as a devotee if I over eat my stomach may get upset that is a material law although prasad is spiritual there is a material law that works if I eat too much my stomach gets upset so similarly it is a certain material law that whatever I think of at the time of death that is what I will get so because Bharat Maharaj thought of a deer he got a deer’s body but over and above this material law is the spiritual principle the spiritual principle is that our spiritual advancement our attraction to Krishna is never lost so externally he got a deer’s body but internally his attraction to Krishna remained his attraction to Krishna remained and that continued in the next life also this was an extreme example but coming to your specific question which is like a smaller application of that same principle subconsciously our attraction to Krishna is developing even though we may not feel it every time we chant Hare Krishna what is happening is Krishna is here the Atma is here and in between the mind is there so it is like Atma is here, Krishna is here Krishna is the holy name and the mind is in between so every time we are chanting Hare Krishna remembering Krishna the soul is coming in contact with Krishna and when the soul is coming in contact with Krishna by their contact with Krishna the soul is experiencing Atyantam Sukha ultimate happiness so that contact of the soul with Krishna is giving the soul happiness but still that experience of happiness is temporary right now for us because our contact with Krishna is not yet constant whereas our contact with our mind is constant the mind is always with us we are always thinking of something sometimes we are thinking of Krishna so whatever we are thinking of we are thinking through the mind that means we are always in contact with the mind sometimes we are in contact with Krishna so what happens is our mind has so many past desires for sense gratification that even when Krishna comes forward the mind feels this will not make me happy I want something else to make me happy so the problem is not the contact with Krishna is giving us happiness and at a subconscious level our attraction to Krishna is increasing but at a conscious level the mind is going here, mind is going there so therefore when we are doing devotional activities we may at a conscious level feel that my attraction to chanting is not increasing my attraction to devotional activities is not increasing but that is only the feelings of the conscious mind actually if you think about it we may feel I am not attracted to chanting but if somebody tells us stop chanting your 16 rounds we will not do it, somebody pays us there were devotees sometimes were kidnapped abducted during the anti brainwashing campaign and they were forced but still the devotees were not ready to give up chanting why? because there is as I said the desires may not have changed but the values have changed so we may not feel a regular increase attraction to Krishna and Krishna connected activities but at a subconscious level it is there and when the mind becomes more and more pacified then we will start seeing I want this how many of us we may not always like devotee association but how many of us can really conceive of life without devotee association devotee association has its problems but without devotee association we can’t really think of life one past time Prabhupada Prabhupada was asked most of you know this past time Gaurang Prabhu tells this very often that so an atheist came and asked Swamiji you are chanting you are dedicating yourself to Krishna and what if at the time of death you find there is no Krishna so Prabhupada’s reply was very not philosophical he did not go into a polemic to prove Krishna’s supremacy or existence he says even if there is no Krishna still I will chant and dance and practise Krishna consciousness because there is so much happiness in Krishna consciousness so actually speaking if we think about our lives deeply we may not feel this happiness at a moment to moment level but overall from a broad point of view even from a material point of view from a long term perspective life as a devotee is better than life as a non devotee and in our deepest heart we know it in our deepest heart we know it that is because that attraction to Krishna is there so just the conscious mind creates so much of a clammer, creates so much noise that often we don’t perceive the attraction to Krishna but when some external obstacles not the internal obstacle of the mind when some external obstacles stop us from practising Krishna consciousness then we will find I can’t live without this, I have to chant I have to practise devotional service I have to think about Krishna, I can’t live without this so that is what is actually the asset that is there does it answer the question any other questions yes what time should we stop Prasadam is ready ok this last question already it’s one o’clock now ok in the last presentation you were mentioning about voluntary volunteering yeah voluntary now in the Krishna consciousness after being you know say 10 years or more than that and their counsellors they get initiated, Brahmin initiated but still when the authority gives them the service taking the they come and ask, it’s not that they force them, they come and ask you know what seva I can do so we wait for it, then after couple of weeks we give them the seva and they understand the full Krishna consciousness responsibility etc then being voluntary we are not going to force on them but since they have come we are giving the seva in the hall immediately but the problem is they don’t take it seriously number one, number two suppose X has to be at one o’clock and he knows he has to be at one o’clock and he is sleeping, not lifting the phone so what the authority in such circumstances should do yeah very practical question sometimes devotees don’t take up the services that are given to them in a responsible way after so many years of practise so actually speaking if you look at the original principle of Varanashram Varanashram means essentially that somebody who has brahminical intelligence whatever is one’s nature, one is given services accordingly so somebody is of a brahminical nature, if that person is told now you please, we want to build a new temple, we have to raise funds, please help us in raising funds what is the need for a new temple just chant Hare Krishna, study Shastra, you are peaceful here, so what happens is, he will see that as an unnecessary problem on the other hand if somebody is a Vaishya, you tell him you know there is a shloka in the Bhagavatam which says that Kali Yuga is the best of ages can you find that shloka 18000 verses, how will I find it on the other hand if somebody is brahminical intelligence immediately he will, ok look at the book, let me look at the index, let me find the verse the point I am making is that the expertise of Varanashram is that although material world is a place of problems for everyone Varanashram arranges so that people get the problems that they like to solve people get the problems that they like to solve so a brahmana likes to do research so if you tell him to do research, very good he will do it a Vaishya likes to raise funds we tell him to do that, he will do that so in traditional Vedic society we have our material propensities and our material propensities are utilised to help us advance in devotional service that is the way traditionally it works so in general when we engage devotees, if we can find out what is their nature and give them services accordingly then what will happen is they will get even a material taste in that service, so when a brahmana does research when he finds something, understands some new concept or finds some verse, some new theme whether that happiness is spiritual or material it is spiritual in the sense that because it is in the broad realm of devotional service, but it is material because he likes to do that also so generally the material taste comes faster than the spiritual taste the material taste so if we can give a person material taste within the realm of devotional service, then for that person to practise devotional service becomes easier for that person it becomes easier to practise devotional service so in general it is very easy, you do this service you do this service, but Shri Prabhupada writes in Nectar of Devotion that when when Rupa Goswami tells the principle ye na prakarena manah krishnaniveshe, somehow or other think of Krishna, so Prabhupada writes over there, it is the spiritual master’s business to find out ways and means by which the disciple can think of Krishna always this is a very interesting statement that means Shri Prabhupada is not placing the problem on the disciple, he says you are told to think of Krishna, you think of Krishna always, no he is saying it is a problem of the spiritual master to find ways and means by which the disciple can think of Krishna, Shri Prabhupada says in one letter that the whole Krishna consciousness movement is practically my invention now what does it mean my invention? the whole concept of book distribution it is a revolutionary idea, going out and distributing books and earning money through that western devotees had passion, go out and do it, and the whole idea in the western devotees like to do far out things so one of the things they like was music and dancing so if they would dance and sing on the streets, they would get arrested by the police, but Prabhupada started Rath Yatra and they could dance on the streets and the police were escorting them now they just loved it so now the idea of doing Rath Yatra on the streets of America is Prabhupada’s invention invention doesn’t mean it is a concoction the principle is there that you should think of Krishna, but how to make people think of Krishna, so actually Prabhupada is saying that it is a spiritual master’s responsibility so in that sense if say the devotees are not being responsible maybe we can take inventory and see how they can be engaged according to their nature if they like to do that we don’t have to remind them we will have to remind them, enough service now you do other things also, it will be like that and of course from the devotees point of view, the devotee should be surrendered and he should be ready to do whatever service he is told but it is a little unrealistic to expect devotees to be completely surrendered so in general how it works is that we can have three different kinds of services one kind of service which we love to do nobody needs to instruct us, nobody needs to supervise us, I want to do it because I like to do it and of course it is productive for Krishna also but it is because I get a taste in it the other is something which I don’t mind doing it I don’t like it too much, but I don’t dislike it also and there are some services which I just don’t like to do I just don’t like to do now as a surrender I may do it occasionally but that sort of service is not going to give me nourishment in fact that service doesn’t give me strength, it takes my strength so if our services fall only in this category then we will find spiritual life becoming a burden so how it should be, that we need some steady service in the first category things that we like to do that gives us strength and then that strength we can use to do things which we don’t like to do also so in general while engaging devotees we can even ask them frankly, what is it that you like in Krishna consciousness yeah, so of course naturally you will be doing it, but I said that generally speaking, if we have this principle that give devotees some steady services they like to do and then give them some services which they may not like also, but they do it as a surrender, because they are getting strength elsewhere now of course, I come to a specific point, even the service that we like to do even in that the mind will create problems because what happens I may say that I like to study Shastra but the mind is so unsteady that even while studying Shastra I don’t like this too much so then, one has to give some training and commitment and then training and responsibility you know responsibility means all of you probably know there are three things, responsibility is if you are told to do a thing, do it if you can’t do it, tell it in time so that somebody else can do it or third is, don’t take it take it up only so responsibility has three aspects so that training has to be given to devotees and over a period of time we can’t force people to make advancement if somebody is just not becoming responsible that means they are just going to go sluggishly in their spiritual life because bhakti is voluntary if somebody doesn’t take it up then naturally we will find somebody else who takes it up and who does it once Srila Prabhupada was asked this question Prabhupada do you love all your disciples equally so Prabhupada said yes but those who come forward to render service, I reciprocate with them that means Prabhupada loves all his disciples equally but naturally if somebody is taking up more responsibility then Prabhupada will reciprocate so there is a very beautiful book of Srila Prabhupada which is based on a letter which Prabhupada wrote when this whole idea had happened in 1968 that Prabhupada left because Mayawad had come into our movement so Prabhupada suddenly left America and went to Japan and then from there he came to India so some of the devotees felt that Prabhupada has rejected us and gone away so Prabhupada wrote a letter to Satsvarupa Maharaj and Satsvarupa Maharaj made a book out of that he says that I am never displeased with any member of ISKCON that is the title of the book also and that is the sentence of the letter so there Prabhupada writes just by becoming a member of ISKCON you have pleased me because you are chanting Hare Krishna, you are trying to follow the four agendas you have pleased me by that but even in the pleasure of a devotee of a Prabhupada, there are levels of pleasure and somebody who is becoming a temple president or somebody who is taking up leadership position, taking up anxiety naturally Prabhupada will be more pleased so some people just need their time and in one sense we can’t push people too much, Prabhupada gives a beautiful example of how much we can push others so he says sometimes in India when there is a jeep and the person in the jeep is trying to turn on the jeep and the jeep doesn’t turn on so what happens, other people come and help, they push from behind they push from the side and the person from inside is also trying and then the jeep starts and the jeep can move forward so Prabhupada says that after some time the jeep has to run on its own others cannot keep pushing on the jeep throughout its journey so like that we can push people to some extent so that they can start off in general most people live in a state of inertia so what happens is, if they are not doing much service it will go on like this only so we may need to push them a little bit, but beyond that if suppose people are pushing from outside and from inside somebody is pressing the brake then the people outside if you don’t want to move then you stay here only so sometimes some people are like that My point is, Prabhuji when say Mahaprabhu for example, at the age of 75 he is doing so much, but those who are in the movement to between 35 to 40 for the last 10 years or 15 years how can they by energy itself contribute so much by looking at him in the first place I found him yesterday, I was feeling sleepy, but he has called 5 people and he has started preaching after every lunch so that is a great inspiration what I mean to say is, we allow the lethargy to come and we rotate the services so that they don’t get monotonous 6 months you do this and 3 months you do this, again 3 months then so that they get liking, so that they get importance whatever they want despite that when initiation meeting is called, they are there before time normal council meeting 3.30 we started 4.30 we did, now it is 5.30 like that, what I mean to say is when they want they come on time, so discipline is failing what I want to try is that from my side I can, I don’t blame them from my side what I should do so that it can be improvised so that the congregation comes to a standard we must maintain some standard as Srila Prabhupada has given 10 years what the standard was there, we have to rise above that not to bring down that’s what it is so in general I will just conclude with this answer Mahaprabhu is legendary person I mean sometimes I wonder I may not live also to his age but if I am at his age, how enthusiastic will I be, I can’t say so maybe it’s too lofty a standard for us to compare with but in general even among devotees, there will be different levels one of the things we have to be careful about is that like you are giving the example of say the council meeting at 3.30 and people come at 4.30, then sometimes what happens is we reward the late comers what does it mean reward the late comers that means the meeting is at 3.30 but because people come late so we started at 4.30 and then people who are coming at 3.30 they have to wait for one hour doing nothing so then what happens is the people who are punctual get sort of penalised and the people who are late comers they get rewarded so sometimes even within a devotee circle even within a counselling group it may happen that there may be multiple levels of devotees I mean some will be more dedicated, some will be less dedicated so at least those who are dedicated if they are attended to, they are cared for then their example will percolate to others because as you rightly pointed out everybody is voluntarily practising Krishna Consciousness and we need some standards for our movement but we can’t impose those standards so those who are following those standards we have to select them and make a core group or something like that and inspire others to come towards the core group so this is a managerial issue how this will be done but in principle inspiration is what we can give actually we can give three things we can provide knowledge we can give inspiration and we can provide facility but if we try to do more than that we are taking others problem unnecessarily on our head we can’t do that actually when Krishna does only three things we provide knowledge, Krishna provides Bhagavad Gita then Krishna gives inspiration he has given us the scriptures in which there are so many inspiring examples of devotees and then Krishna provides us facility, this is how we can render devotional service so knowledge, inspiration, facility these are the only things we can give to other people beyond that it is up to them so if we try to do more than this then what happens is we are sort of enroaching on their free will and we are taking up anxiety which is not ours Krishna has empowered us whenever Krishna gives us some responsibility he gives us some empowerment so if we try to take up the responsibility for which we are not empowered then we take up undue anxiety so ultimately if somebody is initiated then we have the right to expect them to chant sixteen rounds and follow four regulative principles but beyond that how committed they will become we can give them knowledge we can provide them inspiration and we can give them facility but beyond that it is up to them so maybe we can increase these three things more but then it is up to them Krishna also says as is your desire now you can do that so if we can increase our input in this direction, these three things we have done our part so there are different places where different parts of the Bhagavad Gita applies if we have done this then we have to understand now I have to apply I had done my part now it is up to them I cannot be attached to the result thank you very much Jai Krishna Prahlad Maharaj Ki Gaur Bhakt Vindaki Jai Mitai Gaur Premanand Thank you