Prithu Maharaj pastime – III

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Thank you Krishna. So in the morning we started this fasting of Rudramaraj. So we have completed the 15, 16 and 17 chapters.
So we discussed about how he had become angry with Mother Earth and how she responded to him by telling him how you will protect yourself. So, towards the end of the 17th chapter, we had stopped. So, we will not be able to complete the full pastime today, till 23rd chapter.
But this pastime, not all the pastimes of Kutumbharan, but this pastime of milking of the earth ends with the next chapter, 18th chapter. So, we’ll discuss that. And in order to make things a little bit more systematic, whatever points I am highlighting from the Parpot, I have made a simple corresponding slide along with that.
So, even if you are not able to read the Parpot, because some of you are not able to read it. So, at least I think the slides will be more clear. So, you can see that.
And that way, we will be able to move forward. So, the point at which we stopped was that we discussed the concept of meat-eating in the Vedic literature, what is the proper understanding, how it was there, but it was never glorified or recommended. Then finally, when Madhavaraj sees that Prithviraj is so angry, then she starts offering prayers to him.
And she says that, actually, I’ll be happy to give all the grains to you. I was waiting for a pious king, who would actually use the resources that I am giving for the good of the world. And you are such a virtuous king, so I’ll give it to you.
But you need to get a proper calf for getting that milk. So, we will discuss this. This is then, that leads to the pastime of Prithviraj milks the earth planet.
So, we will discuss that part now. So, now Prabhupada makes a very interesting point here. So, this is towards the end of the 17th chapter.
So, Madhavaraj is chastising, he is obsessing over one of the points here. You are very much pappada. So, Prabhupada makes an interesting point.
Bhrigu Maharaj possesses the power of sankarshan, which is explained by scientists as the power of gravitation. This is an interesting equalisation. So, Prabhupada is saying that what the scientists call as the power of gravitation, that is the power of sankarshan.
So, what does this mean? Bhagavad Gita Krishna describes that it is he who holds up all the planets. In the 15th chapter, 13th verse, it describes that I enter into all the planets and I hold them allot. So, basically, there are different ways of looking at things.
It is not that one is wrong and the other is right, but there are different perspectives. So, there was this Nobel laureate scientist, Rogers Ferry, who pioneered a new approach in the study of consciousness and that has widespread ramifications. So, he asked a simple question, you know, why does a car move? So, if we look at this from a mechanistic point of view, that means from the point of view of mechanical causes, he will say a car moves because its wheels are moving.
Okay, why are the wheels moving? Okay, because along the axle, certain impulses are passed, which cause the wheels to move. Okay, why are those impulses passed along the axle? Because there was a spark in the ignition. It raced backward, backward and then why was there a spark in the ignition? Oh, there was the key that was in the vertical position, it came to the horizontal position.
So, the cause of the movement of the car is the key moving from the vertical position to the horizontal position. Now, is that correct? It’s correct. But is it complete? No.
So, much of science studies only mechanical causes and as far as mechanical causes go, it is correct. But actually speaking, why do the cars start moving? Because the car owner decided to go for a ride and he put the key in the ignition and he moved it from vertical to horizontal. So, he said, we have pioneered this second sentence, top-down causation versus bottom-up causation.
So, bottom-up causation means you start from matter and try to come upward, upward, upward. So, the scientific approach is bottom-up. We try to explain everything in terms of matter and then move upwards.
But he said that to actually explain consciousness, we also have to go top-down. That means, why do I feel happy? Scientists will say that certain chemicals are secreted in your brain, that’s why you feel happy. So, they had the hope that if we could in the future find out how to secrete those sort of chemicals in the body, then we could eventually have an emotion control panel on the head itself.
So, whatever emotion you want to feel happy, press one button. That chemical will be secreted, you will become happy. You want to feel energetic, press another button, certain chemicals go into the brain, you start feeling energetic.
Now, this may seem like absurd, but there are scientists who proposed it like that. And somehow when they tried it, it didn’t work. But those chemicals alone are not enough as an explanation.
They may be a part of the explanation, but they are only a part of the explanation. It’s only one way of looking at it. Another way is, I, a person, feel happy and that’s why a certain result is there in the body.
And a part of the result in the body is that certain chemicals are secreted in the brain. So, this is a top-down causation. So, shall Prabhupada later talk about this again.
Very beautifully Prabhupada phrases this over here. So, where is the mic? Somebody can read this. So, here, basically, Prabhupada is explaining the past time in terms of how the Lord is the controller.
So, all activities begin with the creation of the total energy, the Mahat Tattva. Then, by the agitation of the three gunas, the physical elements are created, as well as the mind, ego and the controller of the senses. All these are created, one after another, by the inconceivable energy of the Lord.
Now, Prabhupada gives an interesting example. In modern electronics, a mechanic may, by pushing only one button, set off an electronic chain reaction. If you want a conveyor belt to move, press one button, and this moves from here to there, that moves from there to there, that moves from there to there, an electronic chain reaction, by which so many actions are carried out one after another.
Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead pushes the button of creation. Can we switch this off? Maybe some of you need the fan, you can move a little backward, and you can have the fan. That fan can be on, I don’t mind it.
Similarly, Supreme Personality of Godhead pushes the button of creation. Okay, thank you. And then, different energies create the button elements and various controllers of the physical elements, and their subsequent interactions follow the inconceivable plan of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
So, this is an example of what? Of top-down causation. The Lord presses the button, and then things move forward. So, the bottom-up way of science is also valid.
We can also understand some things, because things do also happen that way. When the ignition key moves from vertical to horizontal, that is also a trigger. But that is not the ultimate trigger.
So, the scientific way is valid, but it is incomplete. That’s why, Prabhupada uses a scientific sort of language, button of creation, and starts a chain reaction. So, Prabhupada is communicating that to us in our language, our Sikh.
So, let’s move on. So, this is basically the last one part I want to take from this chapter. So, now here, the earth starts offering some prayers.
And then, as she offers the prayers, Lord Krishna becomes pacified. And then, the next chapter starts. Now, this is a very beautiful… Who would like to read this? The last purport of this chapter.
Sometimes… Is the mic working or not yet? Okay, you can read it, probably. Sometimes… You can see? You may not be able to see, no? Sometimes, a common man is bewildered by all this, and considers his activities contradictory. But they are not contradictory.
There is a great plan behind all the Lord’s activities. For our understanding, it is sometimes said that the Lord is situated in the heart of the thief, as well as in the heart of the householder. The super-soul in the heart of the thief dictates, go and steal things from that particular house.
At the same time, the Lord tells the householder, now be careful of thieves and burglars. These instructions to different persons appear contradictory. Yet, we should know that the super-soul, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has some plan.
And we should not consider such activities contradictory. The best course is to surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, wholeheartedly, and be protected by Him, remain peaceful. So, what is Sri Prabhupada telling in this first quote? I will analyse this in terms of a table.
In everything that happens in the world, there is a triple level of causation. There are three levels of causes for explaining everything. So, for example, if somebody gets malaria, there is an immediate cause, there is a remote cause, and there is an ultimate cause.
The immediate cause is a mosquito bite. So, there is a super-soul in the heart of the mosquito, it goes and tells, bite this person, and give him malaria. So, actually, scientists may say, no, malaria is caused by mosquito bite.
And fine, malaria is caused by mosquito bite, that is a correct cause. But that is not complete. Why? Because why did that mosquito go and bite only one particular person? And why nobody else? Somebody says, no, no, it may have bitten everyone else, but others had higher immunity.
But sometimes there are two people who have equal immunity, living in the same house, one gets malaria and the other doesn’t. So, the material cause doesn’t explain completely. So, beyond the material cause, the material cause is valid.
But supplementing that material cause, or motivating that material cause, is a deeper karmic cause. The super-soul is in the heart of the mosquito, and the super-soul tells, this person is supposed to get malaria, go and bite him. The mosquito may not even understand that when I bite, it will cause malaria.
The mosquito simply thinks, I need blood, I need food to drink, and eat. But where it will go and get it? Through that, actually, scientists know that animals act according to more or less instincts. But within the instincts, how they behave is not really well known.
When a cow is eating grass, if it finishes eating grass over here, whether it will turn towards the left and eat the next grass, or whether it will turn towards the right and eat the next grass. But there is no material factor that explains that, because both places grass is there. So, like that, actually material causality doesn’t explain adequately.
So, then there is bad karma also. So, everything that happens to us, if I get malaria, the immediate cause is the mosquito bite, the remote cause is my own bad karma. And the ultimate cause of all suffering and material existence, including malaria, is the forgetfulness of Krishna.
So, now, when there are these causes at various levels, there are remedies at various levels. So, the remedy for the immediate cause is science. So, science may give a medicine like chloroquine, take that medicine and get cured.
That is fine. But sometimes that medicine may work, sometimes that medicine may not work. And beyond that, there is, when I have done a bad karma, I should do some atonement.
If I do that, atonement is a part of karma, kind of. So, by atonement, basically, we don’t cancel the karma, we choose to accept the karma ourselves. That means, say, if a thief has committed a crime, and the thief, if he is arrested, caught by the police, then he may get, say, three years imprisonment.
But he himself surrenders to the police. Then maybe the police may give him just one year’s sentence. Why? Because he has accepted the crime, and has voluntarily chosen to accept the punishment, so the sentence gets reduced.
So, atonement doesn’t cancel the karmic reaction, but because one is voluntarily accepting the suffering, so it’s reduced. But then beyond that is transcendence. Transcendence means we understand that all sufferings are the cause of forgetfulness of Krishna.
So, in this practise, Bhakti Yoga, we are attacking the root of the problem. So, that’s why Shri Prabhupada says that, in a specific situation, how is Krishna acting? We can’t really say that. You know, is God on… So, for example, in a Pakistan cricket match, Indians are maybe doing Ganesh Puja, and Pakistanis are doing worship to Allah.
Now, let our team win. So, is it that God is on one side or another side? No, these are two mundane things. God is not involved in them.
There is actually something which is happening only at the immediate level. Somebody plays well, somebody doesn’t play well. And if somebody doesn’t play, that is only at the Karmakanda level.
There is no transcendence involved over there. But, when you look at the transcendental level, Krishna, when he solves the problem at the transcendental level, he may or may not solve it at the material level. Sometimes, some devotee who gets sick, Krishna will miraculously cure that devotee.
Sometimes, Krishna may not cure that devotee, but Krishna will do that devotee’s strength to tolerate and transcend the pain. So, either way it works. That’s what Sri Aurobindo Prabhupada is saying.
The Supersoul works as inconceivable, but the best course is, to surrender unto the Supreme Lord wholeheartedly. And being together by Him, and being protected by Him, remain peaceful. So, as devotees, we don’t deny that we work at a material level also.
So, we should not have… Sometimes, we say that our suffering just as suffering comes by its own accord, happiness comes by its own accord. So, we may wonder, when I get sick, it’s my own karma. Should I take medicines when I get sick? Isn’t it? If my karma is only coming to me, should I take medicines when I get sick? Yes, I have to.
Why? Because along with whatever karmic reaction I am going to suffer from my previous life, I also have duty in this life. So, a part of my duty is to take care of my body. So, taking care of the body means eating food.
Taking care of the body also means taking medicines. So, the idea of things are happening because of mass karma doesn’t mean that I have to accept everything passively. I have to do my part in dealing with it.
So, when I do my part, taking medicines is a part of my duty. And the trouble, the messiness involved of going to a doctor, paying money for the medicines, remembering to take the medicines on time, that messiness is also a way through which the karmic reaction comes to me. So, the whole principle of karma should not be interpreted as a doctrine of passivity.
It is not a doctrine of passivity. Whatever has happened, I have to passively accept it. No, actually, we have our duties.
But then, the idea of So, actually speaking, science works only at the immediate level. And it’s not only science. Ayurveda also works at the immediate level.
And it’s not considered against the principles of karma. Because taking medicine is a part of our duty. But then Ayurveda also says that there are some diseases which may not be curable.
And then, when that doesn’t work, it says आउशुधम् चिन्तये कृष्णु, अथवा चिन्तये कृष्णु. So, the idea is that when taking medicines, remember Vishnu. But if the medicines don’t work, then simply remember Vishnu.
So, that means there is one medicine, the material medicine which may or may not work. It’s a part of our duty to take it. But, in some cases when the material solutions don’t work, then we just accept the situation and tolerate and transcend it by cultivating remembrance of Vishnu.
So, there are various situations in which the first level solution may not work. As devotees, we can try the first level solution, taking medicine. But, at the material level, if the first level solution doesn’t work, then people feel helpless.
I have got an incurable terminal disease, now I am ruined. But a devotee doesn’t see like that. I have got an incurable cancer, fine, it can be cured at the material level, but I can take shelter of Krishna.
So, actually, this is not a doctrine of passivity, it’s a doctrine of positivity. There is always, no matter how grim the situation, no matter how unchangeable the situation may seem at the material level, there is always something we can do about it. There is always something we can do about it.
So, that’s why, as devotees, the Krishna Consciousness always brings hope to us. So, now, let’s move forward. So, now, the next chapter starts.
Maharaj meets the Mother Earth. So, she says, please get some cow and start milking. So, now, here, Sri Prabhupada explains how the democratic governments, at the present moment, all kinds of fools and rascals are making decisions, but what can they do? What is the result of their legislation? They enact something today just to whimsically repeal it tomorrow.
So, one political party utilises a country for one purpose. In the next moment, another political party forms a different type of government and nullifies all the laws and regulations. So, at a material level, solutions, if they are not within a spiritual paradigm, they don’t last for long.
After the Second World War, the Second World War was touted as the war to end all wars. The war to end all wars. The Axis powers are evil, we allied powers are good.
And once we destroy the evil powers, then you will have peace in the world. And then they formed the United Nations. But then the United Nations has spent millions and millions of dollars.
So, in the 60th anniversary of the United Nations, they had a programme in Pune. So, they had invited me as a spiritual representative for that. So, it was a UNESCO chair programme.
The East India Head of UNESCO is in Pune. So, the local UNESCO head was telling that in the 60 years of UNESCO, of the existence of United Nations itself, UNESCO is one sister organisation of United Nations. So, he said in 60 years of United Nations existence, we have had billions of dollars spent, millions of workers working diligently.
So, we formed around 60 sister organisations. And in all the 60 sister organisations, they have done lots of hard work. For example, Maritime Organisation, International Labour Organisation, UNESCO, UNICEF, all these organisations.
He says, actually, not one of these 60 areas is our situation better today than what it was in 1944. Not one of these areas. So, now, we are not saying those people are not sincere.
But, sincerity alone doesn’t solve problems. You know, if somebody has a sickness and somebody else sincerely wants to help that person. But, you know, sickness cannot be removed just by sincerity.
Sincerity, it cannot be removed by willpower on the part of the patient. Similarly, it cannot be removed by sincerity on the part of benefactors. There has to be a process.
So, if people are becoming more and more Rajasic and Tamasic, then they will do such karma that will bring karmic reactions. And you cannot solve that just by doing some worldly activities. We have to actually bring people to the mode of goodness.
I said, what can they do? Srila Prabhupada explained. So, now, what is happening in this? She is telling, as I said, Srila Prabhupada explains that everything belongs to God. He is telling over here something very frightening.
What he says is, when there is scarcity, not only will people be obliged to eat less, but they will kill one another and eat each other’s flesh. They are already killing animals for flesh. So, when there will no longer be grains, vegetables and fruits, they will kill their own sons and fathers and eat their flesh for sustenance.
Now, we may think, this is so ghastly, it is not possible. But cannibalism was there. Cannibalism is a concept of humans eating other humans.
That was there in some part of society. Now, according to international law, it is outlawed. But the way things are going, everything is seen materially.
Now, currently there is a popular branch of genetic research called as embryonic cell research. Embryonic cell research is that if somebody has got a diseased part of a body, then what they do is, they create an artificial embryo, have a male and female come together, have a embryo, and when the embryo grows up, just kill the embryo. And then, take out the cells of that particular organ and then put that in the body and help the person get cured.
This works sometimes, this doesn’t work sometimes. But, that means for curing my own disease, I am ready to kill an embryo. It is quite a ghastly thing.
That means we are treating a human life to be just like a resource. Just like there is a medicine for curing, so is another life form meant to live just as a medicine for my sake. So, when there is a materialistic view of everything, other people, even other life forms are seen as just material resources.
So, what Shilaprabha Bal is saying, it is happening in an indirect way through genetics over here. Shilaprabha Bal again and again is emphasising that we cannot solve these problems at the material level. Even though the earth being in the shape of a cow may be taken figuratively, the meaning herein is very explicit.
So, now what does it mean? Shilaprabha Bal is explaining in the purports that Anyway, so what he is saying is that now what happens basically in this first time is all the different people from different universe come along different planets come along the human beings come and they appoint a representative and they appoint a representative and that representative becomes a calf and in the calf, when he goes near the cow, then they start getting the milk. So, like that for the demons, Prahalad, he becomes a calf for them. Similarly, for the Brahmins, Brihaspati becomes a calf.
For the Devatas, Indra becomes a calf. And like that, everybody becomes a calf and everybody gets the required nutrition. So, when that calf goes near there, then the earth gives the corresponding nutrition.
So, for the human beings, she gives grains. For the Devatas, she gives Soma. We will discuss what Soma is.
For the Rakshasas, she gives wine. For the Rishis, she gives vibrations. For the Gandharvas, she gives singing skills.
For the Vidyadharas, she gives mystical skills. So, it is described that everybody approaches the earth and they make one representative, which is one of the best of their members as a calf and he comes along and then he gets the milk in this form. So, Srila Prabhupada explains this particular description it can be taken figuratively.
It happened that way at that time. So, this is not just a simple process of a cow giving milk. Actually, the earth the cow actually represents earth and Sarva Kama Dugha Mahi that all desire, all resources for everyone are provided by the earth.
So, what this pastime represents, so that happened that way historically. But subsequently for all of us, what it represents is that actually earth is the source of all resources. So, Prabhupada, this pastime can be taken figuratively for us but the principle is so, how does it work? The best of the asuras is Prahalada.
He is not an asura, but he is born in asura family. So, when he goes forward, mother earth becomes pleased. Yes, he is a worthy son of mine and then she becomes pleased and she gives all the resources.
So, what it represents is in every species, in every arena, every place actually there is a worthy representative and that worthy representative goes forward and approaches the representative of the lord then by being pleased by his consciousness, his service attitude his services, the lord blesses everyone. So, for example, when the pujari is performing arati when the deities give their darshan, actually the pujari is representing the whole temple and the pujari is offering worship on behalf of the whole temple. So, what this represents is that from each species a member comes and he acts as a representative of the whole species and he gets for the whole species whatever that species requires.
So, in general in the Vedic understanding the interaction is always personal. There is a person who comes from the human side, there is a person who comes from the divine side and there is an interaction. There is offering of prayers and there is receiving of benedictions.
So, now Prabhupada says King Indra comes and then he takes several things. All this is happening. So, now this is an interesting point.
Where is the mic? Yeah, you can read from there. Vedic knowledge. So, Prabhupada explains for the sages what is required is transcendental vibration.
That is their food. It’s an interesting way of looking at it. Yeah.
Yudhisthira is the priest of heavenly planets. Yudhisthira is the priest of heavenly planets. Vedic knowledge was revived in the logical order.
Received. Received in the logical order by the great sages through Ruhaspati for the benefit of the human society. Not only on this planet but throughout the universe.
In other words, Vedic knowledge is considered one of the necessities of human society. If human society remains satisfied simply by taking grains from the planet earth as well as the necessities for maintaining body, society will be sufficiently prosperous. Will not be.
Humanity must have food for the mind and ears as well as for the purpose of vibration. As far as transcendental vibrations are concerned, the essence of all Vedic knowledge is the Mahamantra Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Ram Hare Ram In Kali Yuga, if this Vedic Mahamantra is chanted regularly and had regularly by the devotional process of Shanuki Chara it will purify all societies and thus humanity will be happy both materially and spiritually. So, Vedic knowledge is considered one of the necessities for human society.
There are so many societies which are living without Vedic knowledge. Prabhupada explains in this way, we need food for the mind and the air. This is a quote from the Nectar of Instruction.
Prabhupada says if our endeavour is not to enquire about the absolute truth we will simply increase our endeavour to satisfy our artificial needs. If I am not endeavouring for Krishna, I have to endeavour somewhere. Get more money, get more property get more this, get more that.
So, actually it is our inner need. But instead of fulfilling it in spiritual direction, we will fulfil it in material direction. So, nutrition researchers they have a concept called hunger and pseudo-hunger.
So, what is this pseudo-hunger? Actually, hunger is for food. If somebody says Prabhu, I am hungry for Gulab Jamun you know specific hunger, real hunger is never specific, it is generic. There is specific hunger for a specific object, that is not real hunger.
That is pseudo-hunger. I am hungry for whatever for Rasgulla and Paneer and this and that. You can eat those things, they are all part of Prasad itself.
There is nothing wrong in that. But the point which I am making over here is pseudo-hunger is eating for recreation and real hunger is eating for nutrition. So, eating for recreation means you might have seen people if they sit down to watch TV they will sit on a couch and then they will get potato chips and they will keep eating, eating, eating and they keep eating and they eat potato chips and they become like potatoes.
So, that is eating for recreation. That is not really what we need to eat. So, what is happening? Because the person is not satisfied internally.
So, you want some stimulation so and you want some stimulation, some pleasure so people are watching a TV or watching a movie so at that time they are trying to enjoy what is there on the TV or the movie but all the enjoyment in the TV or the movie is all second hand. Isn’t it? There is a hero with a heroine and they are embracing each other and the person is watching thinking if only I were there it would be so nice. Isn’t it? So, it is all second hand enjoyment.
Somebody else is enjoying and everybody else is imagining if I am there. So, what happens? Because everything is imaginary something has to be real. So, actually when our mind has got food that means when our mind is we have got intellectually nourishing engagements then to that extent our external needs go down.
To the extent we are not having adequate food internally, to the extent our external needs will increase. And we will also see that if we are very busy doing something and really absorbed in it we forget about eating. We forget about other things.
But on the other hand if we are not interested in something and we are bored we start studying at 10 o’clock and we are bored with the studies. So, 1 o’clock is lunch so we think 10.30, 11, 11.30, 12 when is lunch going to come? So, what happens is because we are not getting food for our inner self, for our mind then what happens? Our external needs increase. So, this is an inner necessity.
It is not something that will replace the bodily necessities but it is all a part of our requirements and when the internal requirement is not satisfied we try to get more of the external but that doesn’t satisfy us. So, now how do we get food for the mind? It is primarily through the ear. So, when we chant the sound vibration we hear the sounds the sound of the Hare Krishna Mahamantra the sound of the transcendental message of Krishna that actually goes through the ear and Prabhupada explained that that actually our desires are contaminated it purifies those contaminated desires.
So, that is the meaning of food for the mind and the ear. at this point all the different living beings Indra has come as a calf now and then here, Prabhupada explained that Soma is there. So, what does the Soma do? Soma Rasa.
Yes. By drinking Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Krishna quickly quickly By drinking the Soma beverage the demigods become more powerful mentally and increase their sense of power and bodily strength. Indicate that, this Soma beverage is not an ordinary intoxicating liquor.
The demigods could not touch any kind of liquor, nor is Soma a kind of drug, Soma a kind of drug. It is a different kind of devils available in the heavenly planets. Soma is somewhat different from the leeches made for demoniac people.
So, process 3 comes in Soma. It makes a person more powerful mentally. Soma is enjoyable, but it elevates a person.
It brings a person upwards from passion towards goodness. And it increases sensual power and increases the bodily strength. So, modern Indologists, Western Indologists, they try to find out what is this.
Because Soma is referred to a lot in the Vedic scriptures, especially in the Rig Veda and other places. They say, maybe this Soma is some plant which was there in India and it had a delicious juice. So, we also want to drink that juice.
Let us find out where it is. So, they do a lot of research. So, the Western Indologists, when they study the Vedic literature, their approach to Vedic culture has these 3 characteristics.
Downsize, post-date and downgrade. Downsize means, it is not so large. So, you say, the Mahabharata war was actually fought between kings all over the world.
No, no, no. Actually, they were just small owners of states in small, small states in different parts. So, they had to downsize everything.
Post-date everything. Post-date means that it is not 5000 years. Only 2000 to 2500 years old.
And then downgrade. Actually, the Soma is a celestial beverage. It is intoxicating.
So, now why do they do like this? Downsize, post-date, downgrade. Because when the Europeans came to India, they had their own superiority complex. Superiority complex means that our civilisation is the greatest of all civilisations.
And when they found India had its own civilisation, which is actually far more ancient and which is far more sophisticated, then their superiority complex could not tolerate that. And of course, they had their Christian evangelising motives. And they wanted to convert Indians to Christianity.
So, because of this, Max Miller is considered to be a famous pioneer of the study of Indology. In India, even today, they have Max Miller Bhawans in various parts. For example, now Max Miller has translated many books.
So, he says that the sanyasi should, to attain success of sanyas, should every day kill cows. Should every day kill cows. So, actually, if we go back and look, what is the Sanskrit? The Sanskrit is go-dhamana.
So, now, go can mean cow. Go can mean senses. So, go-dhamana can mean a sanyasi should daily control his senses.
But go-dhamana can be used to say sanyasi should daily cut cows. So, now, from the Sanskrit point of view, Sanskrit dictionary point of view, it’s a defensible translation. It’s defensible.
Go-dhamana can be said to be a cutting of cows. But from the point of view of the overall culture, it is a horrendously wrong translation. So, this sort of things have happened.
And that’s why many Indians don’t… Unfortunately, what happened, because these Indologists were the pioneers for studying and presenting the Vedic literature in the English language. And most of the Indians subsequently, when they studied the Vedic literature, they studied their English translations. So, they have got most of the misconceptions.
And many of the textbooks also, many of the standard academic books, they have this sort of misconceptions. So, the common misconception is Soma is liquor. But Srila Prabhupada, he addresses this sort of conceptions also in his purpose.
So, he is saying it is not liquor. It is not liquor. So, let’s move forward.
As I said, the sons of Diti came along and Prahlad became their cow. And then like that different people come along. Andhravas come along.
Vishwavasu becomes their cow. And Pitrloka comes along. Now, Srila Prabhupada talks about something which is very interesting for all of us.
That is ghosts. So, who is the leader of the ghosts? So, now Aryam is the leader of the Pitras. And then he comes along.
After that ghost comes along. So, now normally, what is the cause of somebody becoming ghosts? Suicide. Yes.
But Srila Prabhupada gives one more cause over here. Can you read this? Who has a mic? Those who are very sinful from that part. Those who are very sinful and attached to their family, house, village or country do not receive a gross body made of metal elements but remain in a subtle body composed of mind, ego, intelligence.
Those who live in such subtle bodies are called ghosts. So, actually speaking, if the soul is very attached to its surroundings, then the soul is not ready to go to the next body because of that attachment. And that strong attachment keeps the soul over it.
So, one is the premature destruction of the body caused by suicide. The other is excessive attachment which prevents the soul from going to the next body. So, this is also a cause of suicide.
Sorry, cause of a person becoming a ghost. So, now let’s look at this a little bit dramatically. So, here we know there are these three levels of being.
There is a soul, there is a subtle body and there is a gross body. So, now how does a person become a ghost? So, there is a gross body but it becomes dead on the departure of the soul. The soul comes out with a subtle body.
But he doesn’t get another gross body. So, then the ghost is a soul with just a subtle body but without a gross body. Now, many of us may have heard of this concept of possessions.
You know, some ghost comes in. So, what happens in that case? So, there are two souls and subtle body in the same gross body. So, what has happened is below is the original soul with his gross body.
But then another soul has entered into it with his own gross body. Sorry, with his subtle body. So, above is the possessing ghost.
Is the diagram visible there? Okay. So, what has happened is the original person is below. He has become dominated.
So, say X is there in his own body but Y enters into it. So, X becomes dominated. That’s why X has become sidelined.
Now, Y is in the centre. So, Y is the ghost. So, how does this happen? Especially people who live in Tamoguna, those who live in Tamasic life, the ghosts are also living Tamasically.
In fact, in the 5th Canto, it is described, a hierarchy of all living beings is given. And in that hierarchy, it is described that ghosts are actually more powerful than human beings. Why they are more powerful? It is said that because they don’t have any gross body.
They can act directly at a subtle level. So, they are not powerful in terms of being more spiritually evolved. They are powerful in terms of being able to conquer human beings, control human beings.
If they are given that fortune. So, people who are Tamasic, the ghost enters into their body. And the ghost enters into their body.
Then, suddenly, actually the person’s behaviour only changes. Many times, the person starts talking in a different voice also. His voice changes, his tone changes, manner of speech changes.
Actually, there are so many cases of this documented that although many people may want to dismiss this as just fantasy or superstition. But there are well documented cases. There was Charles Darwin, along with him, Alfred Wallace was also the co-founder of the theory of evolution.
So, Alfred Wallace did extensive study in ghosts. And he said that he wrote quite a well-received book on the topic. And he says, when I write this book, I am not asking for belief.
I am asking all the readers to have doubt only about the certainness of their pre-existing beliefs. Don’t believe that what you know already is completely true. There are so many documented cases of people whose behaviour suddenly changes.
Not only their behaviour changes, their voice changes, their tone changes. So, the ghost has entered into their body. And then the ghost is taken over the control.
So, when the ghost takes over the control of the person, the original person gets suppressed. And eventually when the ghost leaves, there is a whole exercise called exorcising. Exorcising means drying down the ghost.
So, when the ghost is driven out and this person comes back, most often this person doesn’t even remember. So, that the last 2, 3, 4 months is like a blank for him. Like asleep or something.
So, actually speaking, this is possible to happen for many people who are living in Tamoguna. Generally, if we live sattvic lives, then the ghost cannot enter. There is a perverse issue of this now.
Actually, there is a whole genre of self-age books. So, what are these? There is a self-age book called the SAIT books. So, there is a lady author.
She says, actually all the books, I am not writing any of these books. I am simply a medium. There is a ghost called SAIT.
So, whenever I sit down to write, that ghost enters into my body. And I write these books. So, the current idea is, they don’t call them ghosts, they call them spirits.
These spirits are filled with higher wisdom and they will elevate humanity to a higher level of wisdom. So, instead of becoming instruments for God, people are becoming instruments for ghosts. It’s very unfortunate.
So much of new age books which are coming in, they seem to be spiritual books, but they are actually quite deceptive. Because they teach misleading ideas of, basically they are all centred around Mayavada, that you are God, and things like that. But this is how the position by ghosts works.
And as Vinashila Prabhupada himself talks about, he has encountered many places. When he had a house here in Bengal itself, or later on when they were with George Harrison’s place, John Lennon’s place in London, there were some ghosts in that area. Prabhupada told, do kirtans, and they did kirtans on the ghosts, they were driven out of it.
So, one thing important from the Vedic spiritual perspective is, that the ghosts are not so much malevolent as they are miserable. Malevolent means evil beings who want to cause suffering to others. The ghosts are not exactly malevolent, they are themselves miserable.
They are miserable and they are somehow trying to get rid of the misery. For getting rid of the misery, they want to enter into somebody. And then they want to enjoy through that body.
So, the ghosts are themselves suffering. And they cause suffering to others. But they are also, as far as the whole creation is concerned, they are also one member of the creation.
And there are people who are ghosts also. That means, souls who go into ghostly bodies and they become ghosts. Yes, true.
So, in the higher planets, the living beings have a subtler body. And the ghosts also have a subtle body. The difference is, that those who are living in the higher planets, they have got the subtle body by their karmic qualification.
Whereas, these souls don’t have the karmic qualification to have a subtle body. Rather, they have karmic disqualification to get a gross body. And that’s why they are in a bereaved stage.
There is a difference between the two. So, this person becomes more and more evolved. And then, that person is fully capable of doing everything that needs to be done through a subtle body.
So, in that sense, the subtle body does not lead to any sense of incompleteness. That means, the ghosts, they don’t have hands, they don’t have eyes, they don’t have legs. They don’t have a gross body.
But, in the… Here, there is actually, in this question, there is a confusion between the confusion in the use of the word subtle body. When we use the word subtle body, we use it to say that, okay, there is a gross body, there is a subtle body, and then there is a soul. So, we use subtle body to refer to this intermediate level of being.
Whereas, in the higher planets, what we would call as gross body is also made of subtle elements. So, in that sense, they have a complete functional body. But, the complete functional body is made of subtle elements.
Whereas, the ghosts do not have a complete functional body. So, they have the… the residents of the higher planets have got a complete functional body by their karmic qualification. Whereas, the ghosts have lost a complete functional body because of their karmic disqualifications.
Is it clear? Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Okay. So, as far as ghost possession or possession by higher beings is concerned, actually, the communication from the other realms, other realms means that beyond the world that we see with our eyes, there are various other beings. There are devatas, there are ghosts, there are pitras, so many other beings are there.
So, the communication with them often happens in various ways. So, one of them is interaction with them happens in three ways, broadly speaking. One is apparition.
Apparition means somebody sees. Sometimes you see, we may have seen in some movies, you see a white-ish, hazy form which walks through the walls. So, apparition means the ghosts, they manifest a subtle kind of form which seems to walk through, that is apparition.
Then second is communication. Communication means, you know, you have this planchette. So, people ask, they use a hand and they start moving the hand and something gets written on a paper.
That’s called planchette. So, that’s communication that happens. And third is possession.
So, the beings from other realms may make themselves visible, may move somebody’s hand to write something or may enter into somebody and speak through that being. So, all three are possible. So, now, in principle, it is possible that other beings can be called and they can be used to get some information.
Now, the question is, for us from a spiritual perspective, philosophical perspective, there are very few ways to verify whether it is real. And from the transcendent perspective, it is not necessarily beneficial. So, actually speaking, there is one letter of Prabhupada.
One devotee writes to him and says, Prabhupada, I think I am being possessed by a ghost. What should I do? So, Prabhupada said, it is just weakness of the mind. It is not a ghost.
It is just weakness of the mind. So, you know, we should start imagining. Oh, maybe a ghost is coming.
So, there is a false ego by which some way I want to appear special. You know. So, what is my speciality? Oh, you know, I am possessed by a ghost.
I want attention. That is the whole idea. So, Prabhupada says, actually, it is just weakness of the mind.
So, although Prabhupada talked about that there are ghosts and ghosts can possess, it was not that he uncritically accepted any and everything as just caused by ghosts. So, therefore, we also should not be very uncritical about these things. So, it is in principle possible that some some other beings can be caught by certain rituals.
Now, whether that happens, the voice changing in and of itself is not necessarily approved. Because when psychotherapy is done, psychotherapy means a person is told to stimulate his past memories. At that time also, many times the person’s voice changes.
Because depending on what kind of memory is being cultivated, that may shape a person’s voice. So, it may or may not be true. And more importantly, this is just a paranormal way of knowing, like astrology is.
Astrology is one way of knowing what is going to happen in the future, what should I deal with it. This is another paranormal way of knowing. We can’t know whether it is right or wrong, but ultimately we understand that Krishna is transcendental and Krishna takes care of his devotees.
So, therefore, as devotees, we don’t go into the zone of this. And if somebody is doing this, we don’t encourage it. We don’t tell him to stop chanting Hare Krishna.
But over a period of time, a person understands that these are not really very important things. Is it clear? Yeah. Any other questions? Yes.
Okay. See, whoever chants Hare Krishna or several males around chanting Hare Krishna, the ghosts will not come. See, the scriptures give broad assurances.
And in principle, they are true. But along with the broad principle, there is always the individual karma that is working out. So, for example, in the scriptures, it is said that if somebody practises spiritual life, Prabhupada says, such a person will never fall back from the human species to a lower species.
But we see Bharat Maharaj had been practising spiritual life. He was quite advanced. But then he fell away.
He fell down to a lower body. So, how did that happen? Is it that the Bhagavad Gita’s promise is not true? No. Actually, there are multiple laws working.
And sometimes, the two laws may not work harmoniously. That means, one law is that if somebody practises spiritual life, when we say that human life will always be there, that means the opportunity for practising spiritual life will always be there. So, one who practises spiritual life will always get a human body.
Another law is that whatever we think of at the time of death, we will get that. So, now, actually, it is Gahana Karmanuvati. It is very complex.
When two laws make two different demands, what will take precedence? So, in the case of Jai Bharat Maharaj, because he was thinking of a deer at the moment of death, he got the body of a deer. But, although he got the physical body of a deer, he did not get the consciousness of a deer. As a deer, not only did he remember his previous life as a human being, but he also remembered his spiritual consciousness.
As a deer, he did not go around and search for green grass. He actually tried to stay in the proximity of rishis and hear pranjana sound vibration. So, what happened? From the external point of view, he lost the human form.
But the essential assurance of the Bhagavad Gita is that we will not leave… The human form represents the opportunity for practising spiritual life. So, we will not lose that opportunity. So, by certain karma, a person may lose the human form and may get a sub-human form.
But in the sub-human form also, the spiritual life will continue. The spiritual consciousness will continue. So, like that, normally, devotees will not be haunted by ghosts.
Devotees will not see Yamadutas. That sort of things are there. But in some exceptional cases, things like this may happen.
In one of our yatras, Krishna and Devi yatra, there was one young girl and she got haunted by a ghost. And the devotees were chanting for her. She was a nice devotee, but she just got haunted by a ghost.
And the devotees were chanting, chanting, chanting. And then finally, this girl, she spoke in a male voice. And she said, you know, you are all going to Mayapur.
I want to go to Mayapur. Don’t try to drive me away. When I reach Mayapur, I’ll by myself leave.
So, it was a devotee ghost. And actually, exactly the same thing happened. When the pilgrims reached Mayapur, the girl became normal after that.
So, now we wonder, how can a devotee become a ghost? Normally, it should not happen. But, for some reason, if a devotee commits suicide, there is no reason why a devotee should commit suicide. But, you know, if a devotee has just cut himself off from devotee association, has got frustrated because of something, and whatever.
If somehow a devotee commits suicide, then from the material law point of view, the material law may act. And a person may get a ghostly body. But still, the consciousness is not ghostly.
The consciousness is still devotional. And the person is continuing to have devotional desires. You know.
So, in that sense, the opportunity for spiritual progress is never lost. So, that’s why, as a broad principle, this is true. But sometimes, there may be certain exceptions, because in material nature, there is never only one principle at work.
There are multiple principles at work. And sometimes, the resolution of multiple principles may throw up some unexpected scenarios. Yeah.
Yeah. Some sort of reconciliation. It’s not harmony.
Somewhere, reconciliation is done over there. Yes, please. Yeah.
I was afraid to talk about ghosts, because I knew it would… Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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So, now when we are preaching to them, what should be our, like I said, unscrutical, so can we ask them to reverse this or correct it or like? Yeah, so if somebody is doing this sort of interacting with Prithviraj, but it’s just happening automatically. Yeah, so yes, sometimes how it works is, the Pitras, there is a Pitra, there is a Pitra Loka. Now, when you say Pitra Loka, it is not that all ancestors of everybody go to Pitra Loka, but the idea is that in the Rig Veda it is said, there are two margas, that is Deviyar and Pitriyar.
So, those who have above average good karma, very high good karma, they will go to Svarga Loka. Those who have average good karma, they will go to Pitra Loka and those who have bad karma, they will go to Naraka Loka, broadly speaking. So, in general, it is expected that one’s ancestors will, unless a person has a lot of piety, the person will not go to Svarga Loka.
But in Vedic culture, as I said, there is a gradual process of advancement is always there. So, it’s normally expected that one’s ancestors will go to Pitra Loka. So, Pitra Loka is not a generic destination for all ancestors, but that’s the probable destination for those who are living with average piety in Vedic culture.
So, when people go to Pitra Loka, often in the Vedic culture, there is the system of worship of ancestors and that’s a valid system because the principle in Vedic culture is to inspire people towards Dharma in every possible way. So, even by identification with one’s dynasty and with one’s ancestors, if that can inspire one to perform Dharma, that’s wonderful. Like Kaunteya it is said.
Krishna is referred to as Kaunteya, as Partha, as Kuru Nandana. You belong to his, it is a bodily designation. But that bodily designation is used to inspire him to do his duty.
So, you belong to the glorious Kuru dynasty, therefore do your duty. So, therefore, just as there is a connection here, that means the living beings on this planet are inspired to have, to remember their connection with their ancestors. Similarly, the ancestors also, if we say they go to Pitra Loka, they remember their descendants here and because the Pitra Loka is considered higher than Matya Loka, the earthly piety system.
So, from there they can offer guidance occasionally. So, what we should tell them is that yes, the very fact that these things are happening means that there is much more to life and to the universe than what we see with our eyes. But even if they have some basic understanding, they will understand that the Pitras are not supreme.
They are not the supreme personality or the absolute truth. So, just as by worshipping the Pitras, we are getting benefits, by worshipping the Supreme Lord, we will get even greater benefits. So, 9.25 in the Bhagavad Gita says, यान्ति देववृता देवान् पित्रिन्यान्ति पित्रिविता भूतान्यान्ति भूतेज्ञा यान्ति मदियाचि दोपिमाम् So, in this verse, there is no judgement on Krishna’s side.
Krishna is not saying, this is bad and this is good. He is saying, those who do this will go there, those who do this will go there. Elsewhere, he says, those who come to my abode, that is eternal.
So, basically, they already have faith that there is much more to the universe than what we can see visibly. And that faith, in the subtler material powers of the universe, can become a springboard for them to develop faith in the transcendental aspects of the universe. So, how that will be done, that will vary from person to person.
But in general, if you give a little philosophical understanding to people and then encourage them to chant Hare Krishna, Krishna will take care of them. Because they are more or less in the house of the Vedas. Now, we just have to get them closer to the heart of that house, closer to Krishna.
So, in general, that is how it is in Hinduism today. In Hinduism, the idea is that, actually, the basis of worship is mostly utilitarian. Whatever works, I will worship that.
Whatever works, I will worship. That’s why, if you see most of Prabhupada’s Hindi lectures, he is focussing on one theme. The difference between aparadharma and paradharma.
Aparadharma is dharma artha kama moksha, gradually. And paradharma is developing love of God. That’s why, to some extent, they will need philosophical education to understand why there is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja.
Why, instead of all these varieties of worship, one should focus on one particular form of worship. So, we will have to give them philosophy gradually. Only then they will be able to take it up.
But otherwise, at least they are doing Krishna worship. Tell them to do Krishna worship as much as possible. And maybe if they have a complete altar, tell them at least to keep Krishna in the middle and on top of the altar.
So, gradually we can encourage them. If they can’t take up pure devotional service, then at least we can encourage them to increase the devotional element towards the Supreme Lord, as much as possible. Sometimes they are devotees, sometimes they are not devotees.
Is it like this? Sometimes they have the right to worship the Lord Krishna. So, are they also devotees? Yeah, are they devotees? See, they are pious people. But we have the example in the Bhagavatam of even a brahmana like Shukracharya telling Bali Maharaj not to worship Krishna.
Isn’t it? He is a brahmana and he is a learned person. But he is telling Bali Maharaj, don’t worship Krishna. So, it’s not necessary that all the higher beings, even if they are within the fold of Vedic culture, they will encourage people to move forward.
But many times they will. So, it may or may not always be there, but it’s quite probable that they will encourage us. So, we can of course, like the same example of when you water the root of the tree, all parts are watered.
That applies not only to demigods, it also applies to pitras. So, you can give that example also to them. Yes, Shambhurai, go ahead.
There is a question I read three years back. I may be wrong somewhere. So, it was mentioned that the earthly planet, when Hiranyakshya stole away the earth, and he told it to Harale that earth is their property.
Yeah, I may be wrong somewhere. So, it comes in the lower plane. And one more reason, whenever this Krishna is heard of ghost haunting people, they generally ask for karma of the person.
Like in this case, they are saying to go to Mayapur. Similarly, in another case, they are asking you to chant some rounds for them. You give them rounds.
So, that way of explaining that, they come here, and through that body, they exhibit karma. So, earth plays a very vital role. That’s why Hiranyakshya stole the earth.
Or they come here from the earth plane, and their planet… I think one planet is above earth plane system, which is how? Demonian? Okay. People come to this world, and that’s it. Okay.
Okay. Yeah. So, the question is that, it seems that the earth has a very significant place in the universe.
And that’s why Hiranyakshya wanted to come and conquer the earth. And that’s why ghosts also come from other lokas here to possess people, and then take their good karma. So, basically, the question is, does the earth have a very special position in the cosmic structure? Yes.
The earth, in general, is considered to be karmabhoomi. Karmabhoomi means, we incur karma in this, we create karma on the earth. Now, does that mean that in the Swagaloka and other lokas, we don’t create karma? See, everywhere, the broad principle is that we are accountable for our actions.
Everywhere in the universe, we are responsible moral agents. But the arena of freedom is much more. For example, in Swarga, Indra and a Devas can enjoy with the Apsaras, and there is no pregnancy, and there is no immorality in that.
There is no immorality in that. That means, but still, if Indra offends Vrahaspati, all his opulence and power he loses. So, there is accountability, no doubt.
A person is responsible for his actions. But, it is not as strict and severe as it is on earth. So, on earth, a person can do good karma.
On earth, he can do bad karma. In Swarga, in general, when Indra does some activities, he is basically exhausting the past pious karma. And whatever yajnas he does, actually, Indra normally comes to receive the results of yajnas.
People do yajnas on earth, and then they go to heavens. So, in general, accruing karma, whether it is good karma or bad karma, that is on earth. And exhausting karma is on the other planets.
So, that’s why, gaining control of the earth, means gaining control of the karmic engine of the universe. So, the karmic engine of the universe means, this is where the karma of various people is shaped. And that’s why there is this battle between the Devas and the Dhanavas.
So, it is described that in the Mahabharata, that when the Devas descended from the heavens to become a part of the Pandava army, and the Dhanavas ascended from the lower lokas to become a part of the Arjuna’s army. And they were confronting each other to try to gain control of the earth. So, yes, the earth is considered a significant place.
For the Asuras, how it works is, that the earth is the place where yajnas are performed. And the yajnas are a part of the cosmic government. And the Devatas play their role.
Krishna says, देवान भावेताने न ते देवा भावियंति That you satisfy the demigods by performing yajna, and then they will satisfy you by your image. So, the demigods are not literally dependent on the yajnas. So, the demigods, when the yajnas and earth are disrupted, the demigods get disturbed.
Why? Because there is a whole system of government over here. Now, some places, Hiranyakashipu says that, Oh, if we destroy the yajnas, then the demigods will not get any food. That’s what he says in the 7th canto at the start.
And the demigods will starve and they will die. And when no yajnas are performed, then even Vishnu will starve and he will also die. That’s a strange idea.
But the demigods won’t starve to death. But it’s a part of the cosmic government. And just like if the government doesn’t get taxes from the citizens, the functioning gets disturbed.
So, that’s how if the earth is taken control of, the earth is outside the karmic engine. It is the place where Vedic culture is practised. And it is a crucial part of the cosmic governing system.
So, when that is controlled and yajnas are stopped over here, then that gives the asuras an advantage in the battle against the devas. And that’s why they are eager to control. How do the lower asuras come to the earth? Is there one-two-thousand time distance above earth? I wonder where the demonic species or asuras come from? How do the lower beings come to the earth? See, one thing is, the word lower has different meanings in different contexts.
So, the word lower, when we talk about this 14 planetary systems, the Bhagavatam’s cosmology is primarily geared towards transcendence. So, from the point of view of qualification or inclination towards transcendence, the lower planets are lower than earth. But from the point of view of physical power, even the lower planets are more powerful than earth.
The residents of the lower planets. That’s why although Ravana was a rakshasa, he said, don’t give me the benediction that humans won’t kill me. Because humans are like insects for God.
I don’t need a benediction that I can deal with humans myself. I need your blessings so that Gandharvas and devas and all those cannot kill me. So, that means the rakshasas, although in the hierarchy of the beings, they are lower than human beings.
But they are more powerful physically. So, because of their higher physical prowess, they can come to earth. And they can overrule the residents of the earth also.
So, the lower is more in terms of spiritual inclination. It is not in terms of physical prowess. Did I answer the question? Yeah.
Yes, Prashantham. If someone who is near to us, if we feel that he gives this body, and we feel that his karma is very sinful, the way he gives it, that will severely lead to hell. So, is there something we should do or we can do for the benefit of such souls? Yeah, if some relative we feel has done karma that is going to take him to hell, can we do something? Yes, surely.
You know, chanting Hare Krishna, there are karmakant rituals which are done, which can also help people. Yeah. So, like that, in general, there are karmakant rituals that can be done.
And in Vedic culture, that is considered a very important part. If the king is having anxiety, if I don’t have a son, who will do yajnas, who will offer pindadaan for me? That is considered an important part of the culture. Now, as devotees, we don’t have to practise karmakant, but we can practise the transcendental practises.
Surely, if we chant some extra rounds, and we pray to Krishna that let this person be benefited, then he will definitely be benefited by that. So, chanting Hare Krishna, especially, you know, inviting Vaishnavas and honouring them, giving them prasadam, these are very practical ways by which we can, generally, chanting Hare Krishna and offering prasadam. There are two most easy ways by which we can benefit others.
And that is a normal way, if in a devotee’s family, somebody passes away also, and they follow the auspiciousness of that person, you know, maybe in that house, they invite devotees, and the kirtan is done, and then prasadam is offered. That is the way normally we can help others. Answer the question? Yeah.
Yes, behind itself. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. When my family, my grandfather and my grandmother, when they performed some rituals, they made a pile of sand.
And that amount of sand was also increasing, and then some type of mark was coming. so when the soul leaves the body then he should go back to some other body or he should go to some other loka whatever the destination is that he is waiting for like that mask gives the from that mask one can feel like what body he gets that marks of what mark is of everything or that is of some power is there ok ok so his question is that you know when the grandfather and grandson passed away then a then a pillar was made and the sand in that pillar was decreasing and certain marks were coming on that so is it that those souls were coming back and giving the marks or the soul went to the next body and some other cause was there of this marks so it we cannot say definitely because what happens when the soul goes after this body depends on every soul’s karma and in general it is very difficult for us to predict although we can broadly understand the trajectory Poonyaman Krishnagiri Purudhvam Gacchanti Rattha Madhya Tishtanti Rajasa Jaganya Guna Gattustha Adho Gacchanti Tamasa When goodness will go up passion will stay in the same realm and ignorance will go down so in such situations it may be that soul has not yet got a next body and because of that the soul is still hovering around that is one possibility another possibility soul has got some has gone to some other higher place then the soul may still have the capacity to communicate with the members of the past space so members of the family members of the previous life that from a higher realm that possibility might be there a third might be that it may just be some circumstantial event that is happening which does not necessarily have anything to do with the soul so exactly what is happening we can’t say actually Prabhupada writes in 1.4 that sometimes when elderly family member dies and after that a child is born in the family then the family members feel oh our grandfather has come back our grandmother has come back so he says is this true so Prabhupada says it may or may not be true but this whole process indicates how deep rooted family attachment is so that’s why now we just focus on the transcendental perspective so if some people have faith that that is happening we don’t have to go on a campaign to prove that it is wrong and some people say that that is all false we don’t have a campaign to go and prove it is true the point is there is much more in the universe which is quite complex and we don’t have to get into the nitty gritties of these things we recognise the principle that these things are possible but even if we prove them or disprove them it really doesn’t make much difference on the transcendental perspective so therefore if some people have faith in this like I answered his question we can use that faith as a stepping stone for helping them to develop faith in transcendence so in general that’s how we should approach these paranormal phenomena there are actually once you get into this zone there are so many things there is a whole concept of Devi possessing people now it can happen but it is not that we have to go on a mission to prove that it is happening or it is not happening yes Devi can possess but how does that make a real difference for the soul’s transcendental journey so that’s why we should focus on the transcendental purpose of life okay something goes on your mind okay where is the mic yes like in ghosts they have subtle bodies then this question was like how are they able to produce some physical effects like when we get closed some kind of physical effect can they produce gross effects like say opening of doors or closing of doors actually speaking because they have subtle bodies those subtle bodies can act they are powerful so they can also produce gross effects so they don’t necessarily sometimes people hear disembodied voices so they can also produce sounds like that so again it depends on the again we should not have a Mayavadi idea of ghosts what do you mean by Mayavadi idea of ghosts all ghosts are exactly identical Xerox copies of each other it’s not like that within the ghost body also when a person gets a ghost body also you know some ghosts may be able to enter into some body very quickly and then suffering is much lesser some ghosts have to struggle around and they just can’t enter any body and they suffer much more so even within the ghostly body also there is variety in the extent of karmic suffering that they get and that they cause to others so that’s why some ghosts can have that power to cause this gross effects causing doors to open and close actually if somebody has to sell a property and somebody doesn’t want that property to be sold the easiest way is to spread a rumour that the property is haunted and then nobody will want to purchase that so Srila Prabhupada was so fearless that’s how we got most of our temples in America they were thought to be haunted houses so we got a very cheap rate and then we dream and then we chanted Hare Krishna and then I delivered the ghost and then yes so it’s possible yes okay here This is like demigods we hear that they get a lot of power from yajnas so how this mechanism works if it is a system that is created by the supreme person they have got a lot of suffering of yajna therefore this Yajnagar Suri sees seven candles and he wants to stop all the demons they want to stop the yajnas and create Prabhupada the brahmanas especially so how does it work? okay so how does the yajna actually affect the devatas do they actually get power through the yajnas see there is a system of cosmic government Srila Prabhupada explained that the yajnas are like taxes they are like taxes so at the ultimate level we can say that the government is also dependent on the taxes the ministers they are also dependent on the taxes but at an immediate level if one month two months the taxes are not paid it is not that the ministers are going to starve to death or something like that so Vishwanath in his commentary to the seventh canto purports that actually speaking when Hiranyakashipu is speaking you know even when the Bhagavatam has some verses it is not that everything that is spoken in the Bhagavatam is the absolute truth so when Hiranyakashipu is speaking oh when I stop the yajnas all the devatas will die Hiranyakashipu is not a Vaishnavacharya telling the absolute truth you know he is just giving a pep talk to inspire all the devatas to go about and do devastation so that is not absolute truth if you look at other pastimes for example when Krishna stops the govardhan yajna of Indra so Indra is not concerned if this yajna is stopped I will starve to death he considers it more as a dishonour he considers more as a dishonour similarly when Parvatsati sees that there is no offering to Shiva given in Daksha’s yajna at that time also she says oh my husband Shiva has been dishonoured like this and she cannot tolerate the dishonour so in general in an immediate sense the performance of yajnas is a way that we honour the devatas along with the devatas we also honour the Supreme Lord but just like you know a citizen when he pays taxes the taxes is a way in which he is respecting the government but if continuously yajnas are not performed if continuously yajnas are not performed just like if continuously taxes are not paid eventually the government’s economy financial balance and even the heads of state and ministers they also get affected so like that over continuously if one or two days yajna is not performed or once or twice yajna is not performed that is a dishonour it is an irritation for the devatas but if continuously yajnas are not performed because of some asuras or demoniac people taking up the rule then that becomes a disturbance and when this becomes too much then demigods become concerned and then they go to the Supreme Lord to seek relief so yes it’s a system of mutual honouring and respecting at a functional level and at a eventual level it’s also a system of cosmic interdependence. Is it clear? Sir, in Kalyugana we see that practically no yajnas are performed.
And how are like is it that because of performance of sakhita yajna the demigods receive their casket of what is formula. Okay, so if no yajnas are performed in Kalyuga then how are the necessities coming about is it because of sakhita yajna actually if we look at the descriptions in the Vedic literature the way the necessities were provided was very natural and comfortable just like it is described the rains would come generally at night so that the farmers would get adequate nutrition water for their farms but in the day time they could go on and do all their work so the natural forces would work in very congenial cooperation but now if we see it’s very sporadic and erratic so it’s not that when yajnas are not performed no rains will come sometimes too much rains will also come so the idea is that the universal management will punish the law breakers so that punishment can be in various ways so now if we look at natural calamities even as compared to 100 years ago the extent of the natural calamities is much much greater I wrote an article where the tsunami had come in 2004 that was so that so there is a international ISD or international society for disaster reduction and they keep a track of what kind of disasters are happening so they said if you compare every decade 1950 to 60, 60 to 70 like that 80 to 90, 90 to 1000 so they said each decade the frequency and the ferocity of the natural disasters is increasing and at that time 2004 in those 4 years itself more disasters have come than in any decade before that so actually so it is not necessary that when yajnas are stopped rains alone will stop it’s basically a form of Adi Daivi Klesh will come so it can come in various ways the supplies will become erratic and regarding is it that the necessities are coming because of some kirtan yajna yes and no at a deeper level we you know if we start saying this to outsiders it may seem as a very self-congratulatory so we have to present it carefully like sometimes devotees are very naive you know we did kirtan here so rains came there well that is in principle okay but if you don’t give a proper philosophical contextualisation and if tomorrow too much rains will come people will say you are doing too much kirtan decrease your kirtan so we have to understand the principle the principle is that the principle is that actually we have to there is universal government and to be a part of the to be a responsible citizen in the universal government there are two things one is to obey the general laws of the government and second is pay the tax to the government so we as devotees when we do some kirtan we are paying the tax but still if we are a part of a nation or a part of a community where the laws are being broken where you know so many animals are being slaughtered so many babies are being killed then when the reactions come we may also have to be a part of the reactions so by some kirtan surely some reactions will be checked and some facilities will be provided but we have to understand that ultimately many times people ask if you really say that because of because of yajna rains come then why don’t you go to all the areas where the droughts are there do yajna and produce rains well we are a part of the Krishna consciousness movement we are not a part of the rain production movement isn’t it so it’s not that you know we want so now will it happen it may happen it may not happen because the important the principle holds true but if people in general in an area are continuing to do bad karma and we do yajna over there then is it that we expect the universal government to turn a blind eye to all the violations of the government rules over there and just because we have done yajna rains will come it may or may not happen like that so our goal certainly we want to help everyone even those who are stricken by drought but the way to help is not just to do some kirtan it is to spread education by which people start living in harmony with the universal government so sankirtan yajna is not just an isolated activity many people it may strike people as very ridiculous you say that you just sing some and clap and rains come but actually this singing and clapping and doing kirtans it is an act that represents human harmonisation with the divine government and what will bring forth the necessities is that harmonisation so we are doing the harmonisation on our side but actually society has to get the necessities then society in general has to harmonise and our sharing of the Krishna conscious philosophy is to encourage people to harmonise themselves with the universal government so yes regarding your specific question if we are not harmonising then there will be disruption but the disruption can be in a variety of ways it does not mean that all rainfall will stop it can be too much rains or it can be too many other natural calamities also so first these yagyas, these sacrifices, is it that they are performed only on yajna because we see like in the story of Sati, like Dhrubhu and others they perform sacrifices and they may not offer shes to Shiva so they are performed on other planets also is it not? are the sacrifices performed on other planets yes yes they are performed see when Bali Maharaj conquers the heavenly planets you do a Vishwajitya yagya and he says you will get power by that see there are levels of the universe and everybody in the universe has to harmonise with the overall system of government so even the demigods are not independent lords the demigods have a lot more freedom and power than what we earthly beings have but still ultimately they also have to harmonise so devtas also have to perform yagyas and they also perform yagyas and to the extent they perform yagyas they also get power by that so overall because in the past they have harmonised with the universal government so that is how they have become devtas now but as a part of their duty as demigods of their role as demigods one way is that they have a lot of freedom to enjoy but the other is they also have to perform rituals so they also perform yagyas yes any other questions yes we will come question is that we perform yagyas to satisfy our pitrus that we do 10 days some kind of sacrifice and yagyas but as you told it now there is no pure pramana to do such kind of yagyas so is that working as well yes generally if we have to do pindadaan or anything like that we can consult devotees and there are vaishnav brahmanas who will help us to do devotional those rituals in devotional forms so instead of say offering oblations to the ancestors directly when we have to do pindadaan we can offer make offerings to supreme lord and invite him to bless the ancestors bless the specific person who has departed so we can especially pioneer that instead of devotees going to karmakandi brahmanas to the rituals devotees based on gopal bhatta goswami’s books haribhakti vilas and other books he has given outlines of how these rituals which are karmakandi rituals they can be performed by devotee householders generally brahmacharis and sanyasis they are not required to perform these householders may want to perform it because of their own pious faith or because of their relatives and social pressure if they want to perform these rituals then they can perform the vaishnav ways of doing these rituals as explained by our acharyas let the mic come ahead in bhagavad gita we see that when we perform yagya to satisfy the devotees they also provide us with the basic necessities and thus we gain prosperity so in the vedic literature we also found the concept that when we perform dharma we get artha but in the modern society we see that people who are not performing dharma they are also getting artha so how to understand this yeah so how are people without dharma getting artha it is the two things over here there could be dharma from the previous life which is providing artha in this life second is that financial prosperity financial wealth alone is not artha now artha refers to holistic material prosperity if we have discussed earlier that americans may have financially lot of wealth but psychologically they are not happy at least many of them so this is not exactly artha so that’s why when dharma produces artha when we say that what it means is it’s not necessarily that all the artha of this life is coming from the dharma of this life it may come from previous life also and sometimes the artha that is given that also can be a resource that can actually cause suffering to a person you know the more durodhana or ravana became infatuated by their wealth and power the more they did misdeeds and the more they suffered by that so when we talk about dharma artha kama upastha that is a system which takes people forward when people do dharma properly they get artha that encourages them to fulfil their material desires but in a way which progressively elevates them there is an example of thief a person tells a thief to steal something from a person but how it is the work of a person because the person is in ignorance so that means going to thief for earning selling something to earning so how is the work of a person so how is a super soul telling somebody to steal actually a super soul responds to our desires so the very fact that the person is a thief means that he has chosen as his profession or his occupation stealing so then whatever a person wants to do that person cannot do it without getting some intelligence so that intelligence ultimately comes from a super soul see for example when in bollywood they produce sexually provocative movies now to strike the most sexually provocative poses the angles and all that that also requires a perverse kind of creativity and intelligence so that also comes ultimately from Krishna but why is Krishna giving that kind of intelligence because that is the desire of the soul the soul wants to do these sort of things then Krishna allows it so Krishna says if this is what you think will make you happy you try it out you try it out and when it doesn’t make you happy when you start enquiring what will make you happy I will give you the intelligence for that so Krishna helps us in various ways first is that he guides us about what is the right thing so he gives us through guru sadushastra and also the chaitya guru but then if we decide determinately to go on the wrong course then even to go on the wrong course we cannot go on it without the intelligence given by Krishna you know if somebody has to send an aeroplane to blow up WTC that requires intelligence it’s a perverse intelligence but that requires intelligence so somebody has a very strong desire to do that Krishna says okay try it out so when Prabhupada is saying that the super soul gives the intelligence to the thief now go and steal that means the thief wants to do that the super soul says okay this is what you think will make you happy try it out and when you don’t get happiness about this I will tell you how you can become happy the super soul does not initiate our desires he facilitates our desires the initiation of initiation means beginning of our desires comes from us and then the super soul facilitates our desires I have only one more question in some part of India like in Melbourne village in some season it is called that people are conscious like the body of a person and they start behaving differently they can walk in cool and penitent they can lie inside their body and people start worshipping for their wealth and money or anything so is that true or false yeah I was talking about possessions possessions by the Devi or some other Devatas it’s possible it can happen but again we don’t have to go on a campaign to say that it is true or it is false in some cases it may be true in some cases it may be impersonation somebody is acting but it is possible that this can happen because the Devatas and the Devis have been given that kind of powers so in general the worship of the Devi is done in two ways one is the what is it called like we have Sokhiya and Parakhiya you know that means belonging Krishna’s relationship with married queens and unmarried queens so like that the worship of the Goddess is when she is the consort of Shiva and when she is independent so normally Parvati is worshipped with Shiva but generally if you see the temples of Kali, Bhadrakali, Mahakali there is no Shiva over there so the concept is that when the Goddess is separated from her husband then she becomes angry and then she gets into destructive mode and that’s why Tamasic people worship they want to do all sort of destruction so generally speaking when the Goddess is worshipped as a chaste wife along with her husband then that Goddess never possesses if the Goddess is worshipped separately then she may possess so it’s possible but we don’t have to get into that zone whether it’s bona fide or not we accept it’s possible but it doesn’t make any difference from the transcendental perspective yes another question ok fine really it’s tantric, the science is true because actually there is some bad thing like we can’t work for two years so we perform some rituals like that the ancestors have been supporting on health and worshipping Kali then they shut it down within minutes but it’s the opportunity it’s one month we have to go elsewhere everywhere but we can’t work oh God how can we do the rituals to shut it down so does tantra work yes as I said that tantra is a material mechanism there is actually left hand tantra and right hand tantra so left hand tantra is inauspicious that is used to cause harm to others for example you may see somebody makes an image of somebody puts a sort of needle over there that person gets some pain it’s in western it’s called voodoo magic so that’s called black magic black tantra black magic so that’s left hand tantra so right hand tantra is auspicious tantra so that out of all this there are many people who impersonate these things who don’t have the power but they impersonate and take people on the ride but in principle it is possible and if somebody is terribly sick and somebody needs to get cured that is ok if nothing works traditionally and doing most of this for medicinal purposes then that’s ok it’s not wrong to do that but once you understand that this is not transcendental and this is not going to free us from the cycle of birth and death it may give us some material benefits but it is just like medicine is one material phenomenon this is another kind of medicine that’s all yes please this question was asked 2-3 years ago in the years before we saw that we were in a condition so during that time one student had asked me that they tell the exact details of the birth of that James James Leninger he died at certain time and he took birth at certain age so one person was asking what is the meaning of this difference of someone dying at certain time and getting a birth at certain other time so what is the exact answer so when a person dies and a person is born again then is there any significance to the transitional period so in general from the Vedic perspective time flows differently at different areas of the universe that’s why where the person will go and when the person will come back that is unpredictable so we are not using past life memories as an indication as an evidence for a comprehensive explanation of reincarnation comprehensive explanation of reincarnation is not possible even from Vedic scriptures we get an understanding of the broad principles we can’t say which soul will go where we can get a broad principles of what is going to happen to a person and the past life memories offer us evidence that this phenomenon happens but the past life memories are not an evidence that are not evidences for the complete mechanism of how it happens so what will happen in the intermediate period there are some memories the next birth happens within a few months sometimes there may be a few years also so what happens to the soul in between he might be hovering around as a ghost he might be in some other species so Joel Ritten is a researcher who has written a book called Life Between Life there is life after life, life before life and there is life between life so by psychoanalysis, by hypnotic regression he took some of the people who had past life memories to their past lives and in some cases they have described their disembodied existences I was a ghost and as a ghost I was going in this area and I was doing this and doing that and to some extent he is a researcher in Princeton in one of the American universities, Ivy League universities so he basically found that to some extent this can be empirically verifiable so some evidence might be there but the past life memories the basic thing that we illustrated by that is that this phenomena is real but we can’t get an exhaustive understanding of the phenomena by that yes, you had a question? oh, a lot of questions, no? so… till what time? should we stop? ok, how many questions are there right now? my god! ok, we’ll take 2 or 3 questions remaining we can take tomorrow is that ok, Mukundapuram? what time is Gaurarti? oh, really? 6.15? ok, we’ll just have short questions 2 questions we’ll take and we’ll continue tomorrow ok, the mic is already here after you can go there I was reading this story in Delhi that there was a person who was producing ashes from his hands and he was telling that you all must be thinking to the crowd you must be thinking I am not but actually I am not because I can produce ashes correct so that was in that sense you are preaching the glory of the god and Maharaja was also like an interest so in India we find that it is a common people get impressed by some kind of and here in this context we have understood that these mystic powers these are this kind of yogic siddhis nothing is without devotional service so I was wondering why is it not is it not so why we are not using this as a preaching effect we say it is easily acquired and so many people are attracted to it it can be used for preaching so why we are not using it why don’t we use mystic powers for preaching firstly we did not say that they are easily acquired see see what I said is it is a material mechanism that does not mean it is easily acquired one has to perform so to go through that process is not necessarily easy just like say now we have technology now we can send emails very easily but the scientists who developed technology as an email they have to do a lot of work to do that so first point is it is not easy but the point which you are making is it is just a material mechanism so in that sense there is nothing extraordinary about it now regarding the specifics of why we don’t use it in the Bhagavatam in the past time of Jada Bharat and Maharaja Raghunath it is described that Parashit Maharaj asked the same question you know if the great devotees have all the mystic powers why don’t they use them and the answer that is given is that the mind the question answer comes up the mind is extremely dangerous and the example is given if one has gained control of a wild predatory animal lion or tiger if one has control then the wise hunter will never let it go loose so similarly the transcendentalist doesn’t let the mind go off control and the mystic powers are because they are powers at the mental level they are one way by which the mind can just take a person on an ego ride you are so great you can do this you can do that that is the first point it is dangerous even if those people have mystic powers the kind of seekers that Maharaj describes over there mystic yogis this is not my glory those kind of people are few most mystic yogis who have power they use it to attract people to themselves naturally the human ego will utilise all its resources to aggrandise itself to make itself bigger so it is very dangerous secondly and more importantly actually that will if miracles are done if mystic yogic powers are used that will attract people more to mystic yoga or to the yogi they will not attract people to the process of pure devotional service so that is why our focus is pure devotional service yes people see miracles if we start showing miracles every time people come for a programme what new miracle are you going to show today depending on how we present ourselves that is how we will attract people so that is why within our sampradaya and in general in all the vaishya sampradayas many of the acharyas have had mystic powers but none of them have used that as a preaching tool because that doesn’t attract people towards pure devotional service the highlight either becomes that particular exhibition of that skill itself or the highlight becomes that person that person that may be a devotee also but when the focus is on that person the focus is on that person not as a devotee but as a yogi and that focus is not conducive to devotional service now we may focus on the spiritual master we have mangalarthi every morning samsara, dhamanal, we are glorifying the spiritual master but that is focused on how he is a great devotee so that because it does not attract so in the bible also it is given, jesus shows some miracles but he also said that some other disciples asked him can you please show some more miracles so that people will develop faith jesus says that faith developed without seeing miracles is higher than faith developed without seeing miracles because that faith which is based on miracles there is no philosophy involved philosophical understanding involved in it there is no commitment to a process of devotional service involved in it that’s why in our sampradaya and in other sampradayas the mystic powers are recognised but they are not utilised as a preaching tool ok, last question there are two kinds of tantra one is for elements we can apply tantra for harm other or beneficial for others so in Indraja this type of catechism has been done so there are so many beneficial works for that in what? in Indraja ok so in that book i have read that how we can produce food for thousands without having some food grains like this so this is quite beneficial ok see again if there is some tantric means by which we can produce food for thousands of people that is actually benefiting others so why not do that instead you don’t have to go to donors and ask for money so see the basic principle again is that in general whenever any paranormal means are used those paranormal means become the centre of attention and when they become the centre of attention gradually they can even become the centre of devotion for example when we if i am sick and i go to a doctor and i get cured that also i have to put some faith in the doctor but on the other hand as he said if i go to some tantric to get my disease cured generally the tantric will tell ok chant this particular mantra and then you have to worship some demigod for that or some other higher being so generally speaking when we take normal material means in our conceptual framework the normal material means don’t become a competitor for our devotional process but whenever we go into this paranormal processes there is some amount of worship and devotion involved in it so that over a period of time becomes a competitor to the devotional process and in general adopting these means is not considered a part of pure devotional service so that’s why as devotees we don’t adopt it it may be beneficial but from the point of view of faith and devotion it may lead to misdirection and as far as not going to doughnuts and other things is concerned actually speaking that is a very important way in which we engage people in devotional service so the people who have money it is important that they use the money in Krishna’s service and so by approaching them it is not just that we are driven by circumstantial necessity it is true we are driven by circumstantial necessity but also that is a way by which people get an opportunity to enter devotional service so if we start using this paranormal means we ourselves may get distracted and that’s one possibility another possibility is that that will become a shortcut for us you know just chant some mantras and get food but the whole process of devotion in the 15th chapter of the 3rd and Radhe Shampoorn will be discussing this when he comes, the kingdom of God it is described that the goddesses of fortune they are cleaning the palaces in Vaikuntha although in Vaikuntha there is no dust so why are they cleaning because through service one pleases and attracts the Supreme Lord so when we consider fundraising, it is not just circumstantial necessity it is also an opportunity for service by which we attract and please the Supreme Lord that’s why this is something although it may involve more hard work it is anukul to our bhakti and that is pratikul to our bhakti that’s why we avoid this paranormal means and focus on the normal means even if they are involving some hard work so thank you very much Gantraj Srimad Bhagavatam ki Shula Prabhupada ki Gaurya Bhakta Vrinda ki Gitai Gaur Premanandai