Prithu M’s humility – Be conscious of others’ position and disposition

[Bhagavatam class at online Bhakti Sanga Conference, USA]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
So, we have Prakriti Maharaj has just entered the kingdom. शंक दुन्दु भी घोषेण ब्रह्म घोषेण चर्त्वि जाम विवेश भवनं बीरा स्तूय मानोग तस्मयः शंक दुन्दु भी घोषेण The sound of all these celebratory instruments, he enters into the ब्रह्म घोषेण चर्त्वि जाम युहृत्वि जाम They all worshipped him, the priests also by chanting mantras.
ब्रह्म घोषेण refers to chanting of mantra. शंक दुन्दु भी घोषेण refers to the sound of musical instruments. So both through human and instrumental means, he was welcomed, glorified.
विवेश भवनं बीरा That विवेश is like प्रवेश, enter. He entered into the palace. स्तूय मानोग तस्मयः While he was being praised, तस्मयः स्मयः is pride or arrogance.
There was no pride or arrogance in him. Without that he entered. Then text 6 पूजितः पूजयामास तत्र तत्र महायशः पौराण जान पदाम् स्ताम्स्तान प्रीतः प्रियवरः प्रदः पूजितः पूजयामास So now there was appropriate reciprocations.
The citizens worshipped him and he also offered the respects to them. पूजया refers to respect, worship or you can refer to respect also. तत्र तत्र महायशः Those from various backgrounds of various levels of fame, those were objects of reciprocation over here in the interactions.
पौराण जान पदाम् स्ताम्स्तान of the city, जान पदाम् the eminent citizens, पौराण जान पदाम्, ordinary citizens, everyone. प्रीतः प्रियवरप्रदः He was satisfied with his reciprocation. प्रियवरप्रदः He was ready to offer desirable benedictions to them.
So basically two main things going on over here in this section of the Bhagavatam. Essentially, we have the pastime of Pruthu Maharaj where he has just attained something extraordinary. That was described in the previous chapters that although he could not perform the thousand sacrifices, still he eventually did perform the sacrifice of not sacrificing.
That means the idea of sacrificing is giving up that which is dear to us. So one way of sacrificing is that wealth is dear to us. The resources that are offered in sacrifice are dear to us.
But the essential spirit of sacrifice is to give up that which is dear to us. And for him at one level we could say the achievement of doing hundred sacrifices was dear to him. But he resisted that.
And he sacrificed the sacrifice. And so much so that the Lord became pleased by this sacrifice. And the Lord personally came and had darshan.
And in this way his fame spread and gave darshan rather. His fame spread far and wide. And when his fame spread thus, the result of that is even the citizens are celebrating, they are appreciative.
Everybody is delighted to have such a great person come back to the kingdom. They are delighted to have a king who is so worthy, so glorious. We all live in the world according to what we identify with.
Our sense of identity is never solely individual. Even in individualistic culture like today’s, still we get a sense of our personal identity by our social affiliation. That means we may say, I am an Indian, I am a South Indian, I am a man, I am a woman, I am a I am a engineer, I am this.
So basically by this we are marking our identity. But we are also marking our belonging to a particular community. So in fact almost every identity that we have it is a marker of our belonging to a particular community.
And one essential requirement for us to feel secure, to feel satisfied is that we feel that we belong to some social group that we want to belong to. So how do we get that feeling of wanting? That depends on how we view the group that we belong to. So if somebody is say in some poor country, maybe some African country and they have always been suffering and just want to get out of that country as quickly as possible.
Then they are basically not comfortable with their identity with that country. Some people go to a different country and then they try to completely change themselves, their accent, their dress, their culture, because they don’t want the affiliation with their earlier identity. But some people go to another country but still they maintain their earlier identity while belonging to another country also.
So the point here is that more important than physical location is our conception. So let’s say if a country has a powerful leader, then people feel proud that our country has such a powerful leader. And they feel a sense of worthiness in belonging to that social group.
Similarly for the citizens, our king is so glorious. Pruthu is such a glorious person that Vishnu came for giving him darshan as a sacrifice. That is a matter of pride for them.
And normally itself kings are respected, hugely respected because they are monarchs. But along with that, a king like Pruthu, having such a king is a matter of great honour and pride. There are two different things.
We may offer honour and we feel honoured to be in someone’s presence. There are two different things. Sometimes we may offer respect and honour to someone but we don’t like that person at all.
But because that person is in a particular position, we offer honour. So generally, anybody who is in a respectable position, they have to be offered honour. That’s a matter of social etiquette.
In some countries where there are dictatorial rulers, that might even be a matter of life or death. But offering honour is simple enough. It’s just a matter of external etiquette.
But to feel that I am honoured to be in this person’s presence, that requires a deep sense of appreciation or admiration for that person. And this is the difference between demanding respect and commanding respect. When we demand respect, at that time people offer us honour.
But they don’t feel honoured to be in their presence. The nature of reciprocation, for any reciprocation to be fulfilling, both parties should be appropriately respected. So, when we feel that sense of we offer honour and we feel honoured, then it’s a fulfilling reciprocation.
So that’s why the word over here uses it, that is Pujitah Pujayamas. He received worship and he offered worship. It was not just that he was thinking, I am so great and all of you are low down over here.
And the previous verse said that, Gatasmaya. Stuyamano Gatasmaya. So normally, when we are offered some position, there are two possibilities.
That we become many of course, but too broad. That we become so inflated with our position that we start thinking that nobody is like me and we start seeing others simply as tools for enhancing our glory and our position. This is the Asuribhava.
Krishna talks about this in 16, 13 to 15, where he says Asavmayahatah Shatrur Hanishecha Paranapi Ishvaroham Aham Bhogi Siddho Aham Ballavan Sukhi So he says that Ishvaroham Aham Bhogi I am the controller. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect.
I am powerful. Adhyo Abhijanva Nasmi Konyasthi Sadrushyomaya. That is 16, 15.
I am illustrious. I am surrounded by illustrious people. But, although I am surrounded by illustrious people, Konyasthi Sadrushyomaya Who is there like me.
Yes. The greatness of all these great people is that they are around me and I am the greatest among them all. So sometimes when we get a position, we become so inflated by our position that we are no longer mindful of the position of others.
This is what happens to Indra when he is sitting in the heavens and he is enjoying watching the dance of the Apsaras and his Guru comes over there. He neglects offering any respect to his Guru because he is inflated by his own position. So humility does not mean not accepting any position.
Humility means not letting our position blind us to others’ position. That means we behave appropriately even when we are given some position. So that means one possibility is that we become so intoxicated with our position that we become unmindful.
We just don’t care for other people’s positions. The other, the first possibility is an unhealthy possibility. The healthy possibility is that actually when we become mindful of our position, when we get some position, we are also mindful of others’ positions.
This is not simply prestige consciousness but it is more of a consciousness of service that this position is meant for serving. It is a responsibility through which I can serve better and then we can act appropriately. So Bhaktivinoda Thakur says in one of his songs that, that, O Lord, give me the strength to respect everyone.
It’s a very interesting way of praying. Normally most people would pray, O God, give me the strength to do something by which everyone will respect me. Give me the strength.
Empower me in such extraordinary ways that I can stand out and everybody comes to know how glorious I am and then everybody respects me. So yes, at one level we all need a sense of self-worth. In the sense that we at least feel that my existence counts.
My existence matters. We don’t want that sense of nihilism. Nihilism is where nothing matters, where everything is meaningless and we exist and then we die and what is the point of existing? What is the point of trying to do anything at all? When we say in bhakti, bhakti, there are two aspects to it.
There is, bhakti reminds us of our insignificance and bhakti reminds us also of our significance. Our insignificance in the sense that we stop being so full of ourselves, thinking I am so special. We understand that we are part of Krishna and there are millions and billions and quadrillions and gazillions of parts of Krishna like me.
So, we understand how big the world is and we understand I am insignificant. So, now this insignificance is not meant to create inferiority or insecurity within us. Basically this insignificance is meant to free our consciousness from self-absorption and free it for something higher.
Ultimately for absorption in Krishna. So, when people are too full of themselves, what does it mean? Their consciousness is only full of them. My feelings, my desires, my position, my respect.
How much is the world noticing me, respecting me? That kind of self-obsession. They can’t talk about anything except themselves. As soon as they have to talk, even if somebody else is talking about themselves, about something else, they will take over the conversation and make it centred around them.
So, that is, so, when we are full of ourselves, then we cannot be Krishna conscious. And that’s why we are reminded of our insignificance. But in Bhakti, we are also meant to recognise that although we are insignificant, our existence has significance.
Materialism actually reduces our existence to insignificance. Because materialism holds that we are just bags of protoplasm, we are just parcels of flesh, who are flapping around for some time. And because of a bug or a bang, we will fall never to rise again.
And our existence will be over. So, that is a very disheartening and disempowering and dehumanising way of looking at life. So, Bhakti wisdom explains that each one of us is a soul who is a part of Krishna, and we are so loved by Krishna that Krishna personally accompanies us in our hearts.
sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto In 1515, Krishna says, I am present in the hearts of every single person. So, Bhakti both in that sense reminds us of our insignificance and reminds us of our significance. And depending on to be reminded of our insignificance, there is nothing great about you.
There are so many other souls and there is nothing all that great about you. But, if we are depressed, if we are disheartened, if we are down in the dumps at that time, Bhakti wisdom reminds us that even if nothing seems to be working in your life, still God is working in your life. He has a plan and He cares for you.
And bad things can happen, but He will bring good out of the bad. And therefore, persevere. So, this is how appropriately, anu kullese sankalpa prati kullese varjanam If somebody is depressed and we remind them of their insignificance, they will go into further depression.
If somebody is already puffed up and then we talk about their significance, they will become more puffed up. So, we have to present appropriately according to what is the need of somebody and what is our own need. Except that which is favourable and put aside that which is unfavourable.
So, the point I was making earlier is what is the nature of Pruthamara’s humility? It is not that he has refused the position as a king. As a king, there is an enormous amount of respect, worship, pride, adoration, distinction as they say. Everything is there for him.
He has accepted that but he gatasmaya, it did not make him proud. Why? Because sakalesamane, he was appropriately offering respects to everyone. So, humility doesn’t require forsaking all positions.
It basically requires forsaking obsession with our position. We have attention to others’ position and we offer respects to them appropriately. Amanina manadena.
So, actually to try to not expect respect for ourselves is painful. But manadena is not that painful. Treating proper people civilly, greeting them respectfully, that’s possible for us.
And for most people, they see our humility in how we deal with them. How we speak about ourselves is important but how we deal with them. Humility is a virtue that is seen more in action than in conception.
Somebody just courteous, polite, respectful, then we know that person is humble. And so, respectfulness is the least painful way of developing humility. Humility doesn’t mean that we constantly keep belittling ourselves.
But that rather than being conscious of our position and how much respect others are offering to me in my position, but we have become conscious of others’ positions and treat them appropriately. So, for example, if we go for a programme, then if we are giving a talk or whatever, now, if we are worried about how many people are respecting me, there is a certain amount of basic respect that is required if a speaker is to communicate effectively. But a speaker is concerned, and a speaker needs to be conscious of that.
If a speaker is giving class and these people are chatting among each other, not even listening to the talk, then if that level of disrespectfulness is there, the speaker may have to put the foot down and intervene. Because then, that certain level of respect, if it’s absent, then the speaker cannot do the service of speaking. But if the speaker is worried, whoever comes to meet me, whether they offer obeisance to me or not first, well, that is a part of the etiquette, but that is not essential for the service.
We see this that when in the Chaitan Charita Amrit, when Nithyanand Prabhu gets angry with Sivanand Sain and criticises him and curses him, so his nephew Shrikant Sain becomes very disturbed and he leaves and goes ahead ahead of Nithyanand Prabhu and away to the rest of the party. And when he comes to meet Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, we see Chaitanya Mahaprabhu offers obeisances. Now the etiquette at those times is that when some respectable person is offering obeisances, at least for men, they take off their upper cloth and then they offer respects.
So Shrikant Sain did not do this. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s servant was about to point out to him, but Chaitanya Mahaprabhu just raised his hand, no need to say, his mind is disturbed, don’t disturb him further. So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was not unconscious, he was not oblivious of the actions of Shrikant Sain.
But he was also conscious of the emotions. You could see from his face that he looked very disturbed. And if somebody is disturbed, there is no need to disturb them further.
It is not that he was regularly intentionally flagrantly violating the etiquette. His mind was elsewhere. So there is no need to make a big issue out of it.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was conscious of his position but he was not conscious only of his position. He was conscious of Shrikant Sain. He was conscious of Shrikant Sain’s distress and thus he was able to not make sure that he was not aggravated further.
So for us, whatever position we are in, if we just become attentive to others’ position, so here by position we can look at a social position. Okay, this person is younger to me, this person is junior to me, this person is senior to me. But when we have to become conscious of people’s position, people are not just positioned in a social hierarchy at a particular level.
People’s position is also the position of their emotions. It is their psychology. Where are they? If somebody is angry, then they are in a very different position from when they are say, depressed or when they are calm.
So, their position refers to also the position of their thoughts, position of their emotions. Basically, we could say they are disposition. So, humility is a matter of being conscious of others’ position and others’ disposition and then moderating our behaviour accordingly.
So, Pruthu Maharaj, he was described as Gatasmaya. Although everybody was praising him and it’s so easy when people praise us to get a big head, to start becoming proud of that. But if we remember, if we remain conscious of others’ position and we remain conscious of our purpose, our service, then we won’t, we can, we will not be blind or neglect that praise but we won’t get infatuated by that praise.
In the bhakti culture, it’s important that we all respect each other properly. In fact, the most people, when they come to a spiritual path, it is not primarily for the spirituality. It is primarily for the sense of community that our society, as I said earlier, is very individualistic.
One side of individualism is that I can do whatever I want and nobody controls me. So, that seems to give freedom. But freedom always comes at a price that if I want to do what I want to do, then I cannot belong to a group which has certain standards, which has certain ways of behaving.
So, every bond is at one level a bondage. Not bondage necessarily in the restrictive sense of binding us to material existence but bondage in the sense that we are bound to behaving in a particular way and not behaving in a particular way. So, like every relationship, it connects us but it also restricts us.
Say, if a man and a woman get married, then before marriage the way they might deal with other members of the opposite gender, they cannot deal with them the same way. So, when there is a bond between a man and a woman, that bond also brings a, rather than bondage, the word could be boundary. Every bond brings a boundary with it.
If a couple has children, then they want to have a bond with a child, that brings a boundary. They have to care for the child. The child will always be there in their consciousness.
Similarly, if you want a bond with Krishna, then there is a boundary for it. There are certain things which we can do and certain things which we can’t do as devotees. So, when somebody wants to be individualistic and they don’t want any boundaries, I will do what I want to do.
And the result of that is you cannot have any bonds. So, it comes as a package, bonds and boundaries. So, the point I was making is that most people come to spirituality for a sense of community.
They want a sense of belonging. They want relationship. They basically want bonds.
And, in one sense, most people do not want boundaries. We all have a mind which just wants to do whatever it wants to do. But, the boundaries become bearable to the extent the bond is relishable.
If the bond stops being relishable, then the boundaries start becoming unbearable. And that’s why, whenever any relationship breaks down, there might be some external cause of the relationship breaking down. And people start transgressing the boundary.
Somebody tends them outside the boundary also. But, often it is the bond just stops being pleasurable for whatever reason. Then the boundaries start becoming suffocating.
So, if we stop, for example, getting some joy in our bhakti practises, some satisfaction, some meaning. It might not be that we are always dancing in ecstasy. But, at least we feel a sense of belonging among the devotees.
We feel valued. We feel cared. We feel that by our services, we are doing something worthwhile.
Then the boundaries that come with it, they become acceptable. The boundaries are rarely relishable. As a devotee, this is what I am not meant to do.
This is what I am meant to do. But, these boundaries become acceptable, bearable to the extent the bond is relishable. And, it is only when members of a community have humility and service attitude that the bonds start becoming relishable.
By humility, I mean not that I am worthless. But, humility means I care for the worth of others. I value them.
I appropriately deal with them according to their position. So, when that is there, when there is the sense of warmth and caring, then people want to come within those boundaries. People want to belong over there.
And, that’s how a community flourishes. Srila Prabhupada would say that Prabhupada writes in the Nectar of Instruction purport that the Krishna consciousness movement is nourished by the six-fold loving exchanges. These are This is the most important.
In the other two, bhunkte bhojayate, as devotees, we constantly keep doing that. We offer prasadam. We honour prasadam.
That is usually not lacking in the devotee community. And, the dati, pratigrahanati, also appropriate moments we might give. Gifts, maybe somebody’s birthday, sometimes some occasion.
Somebody gives some donation. They’re given some gifts. That goes on.
But, guhyam akhyati puchchati, where we can have heart-to-heart discussions with each other. And, that requires that is one of the most important things which will actually bond people together. So, for us, humility means we are conscious of others’ position.
And, that means also we are conscious of their disposition, where they are coming from, what they are feeling. And, then we respond appropriately. We deal with them in a way that is, that makes them feel accepted, that makes them feel valued, that makes them feel connected.
So, I’ll conclude with one point. And, then we can have a few questions. How do we have this, that what is required for six-fold loving exchanges? I was at a the GBC has formed a devotee care committee.
And, one of the leaders of the devotee care committee was in Australia. And, the leader was telling me that they feel that the single biggest thing lacking in the devotee community is the is the trust to open one’s heart. That most people, many people feel, of course, this Western Mataji was telling me this.
She’s a proper disciple. There are many devotees, especially in the Western world, they often when they have some issues, they go to psychologists rather than opening their hearts to devotees. So, why is that? Now, that is because often, as devotees, we become very judgemental.
Become very judgemental means that how can you do that? How can you say that? How can you even think like that? So, once we become judgemental, people close down. Now, once we become judgemental, people feel that if I express this, then I’ll be rejected. And then, we all want to be accepted.
We all want to be respected. So, one aspect of humility, which is which is quite often absent in religious societies in general, and especially in religious societies that have high moral standards, that have high codes of how its members are expected to behave. There it is that that lack of judgement, that judgmentality becomes very high.
And most people will not see humility so much by how we offer obeisances or how we refer to each other respectfully as Prabhu or Mataji. But, most people will see humility by how they are treated when they do something which is unacceptable or which is at least considered unacceptable within that society. We all have certain struggles.
We all have certain weaknesses. We all have lapses where we choose struggles. So, now normally, if we strongly criticise someone, we strongly condemn someone, we might think, I am just protecting the parampara, I am just protecting the standards.
Yes, that’s important, but we have to protect devotees also. We have to protect devotees so that they can follow the standards. Generally, people who are judgemental, they value rules over people.
Niyamagraha means to stick to the letter of the rule without considering the purpose of the rule. The purpose of every rule is to remember Krishna and to encourage and inspire others to remember Krishna. So, to be ritualistic means to value rules over people.
We see the ritualism in the Yagic Brahmanas where they were so caught in making sure that the whole sacrifice was done exactly according to the rules that they didn’t even respond to the requests or the greetings of Krishna’s Gopas. So, to value rules over people is ritualism. You could go to the other extreme and instead of ritualism we can have relativism.
Relativism is that we are so super sensitive to people that we just relativise all rules. You can’t follow it, don’t bother about it. So, there is, we want sensitivity but not sentimentality.
Sentimentality means we don’t make any judgments at all. There are certain things which are right and certain things which are wrong. And if somebody is behaving in an appropriate way, we have to make a judgement about that.
Say somebody is doing deity worship in a particular way that is it is not right. Then we have to maintain the standards. Then we have to tell them that okay this is not the way, this is the way to do it.
But we have to do it in a way that doesn’t come off as condescending or alienating and that way we do make judgments so that the standards are maintained. But we don’t become judgemental so that people feel targeted and minimised and disrespected so that they don’t want a sense of belonging. They feel that the price of belonging is too much over here.
If I want to be disrespected like this, if I want to be judged like this, if I want to be criticised like this, better I don’t belong over here. So, I’ll conclude with this point of being judgemental. Of not being judgemental but being judgemental, there are two quick examples.
I was in a temple in Australia and I gave a class, a three part seminar on being non-judgemental and after that one lady, she came, she and her husband are scientists over there and she said that she was a Shakta worshipper from Bengal and Shaktas, they usually as a part of their tradition, they eat meat. So, she came to a temple, came to Krishna temple there and she saw there were some Matajis who were making garlands. So, she also had that cultural upbringing.
So, she also sat down and started making garlands. And then somebody came over, some senior Mataji over there came and she saw her over there and she said, asked her straight in front of everyone, did you eat meat? And she was taken aback. Did you eat meat? And she nodded her head and that Mataji took the garland that she had made and caught it from her and hurled it down.
She said, if you eat meat, you cannot even touch the flowers that are being offered to the Lord. She felt so broken by that. She said, I went away crying.
I said, I’ll never come back to Iskcon again. Now, fortunately she met after a few months some other devotees who were more understanding and now she and her husband are initiated devotees. They host a programme at their place.
But, she had a very bad introduction and of course, we may say that while worshipping the Deity, certain standards have to be maintained. But, things can be communicated in a much more sensitive way. Sometimes, in our preaching, we have to protect potential devotees from present devotees.
We have to protect potential devotees from present devotees. Sometimes, present devotees can be very judgemental. So, we have to make judgments, but we don’t have to be judgemental.
The other example is, I was gone for once Bhagavatam class in Juhu temple by a senior sanyasi and His Holiness Radhanath Mahajan was also there. I think he had gone. There was a GBC meeting or something going on.
So, he was also attending the class. And after the class, some question was asked. Something technical about maybe I think it was the incarnation of Buddha.
What is he? So, the sanyasi guru gave an answer which was wrong. Basically, the same section had been going on in the Bhagavatam class at Radha Gopinath temple. And just a few days before, Radhanath Mahajan had given a class on the topic.
And he had read out the purport in which the answer was there. And this sanyasi had said that the answer was clearly wrong. So, now all of us, we heard the wrong answer.
We looked at Maharaj. But Maharaj just sat there and did not say anything. And then afterward, some of the devotees when we asked Maharaj, he said that actually, it’s a small technical detail.
It doesn’t make any difference to anyone’s spiritual life. And if somebody is interested in the technical detail, they can always go and find out. And even if somebody is sitting on the Vyasa asana and speaking something wrong, unless it is like a wrong point which is going to seriously deviate people from spiritual life, whether it is and then there is no need to make a big show out of it.
Hey, you are wrong and this is wrong. You could use the argument and say factually this is wrong. Yes, factually it is wrong, but practically it is wrong to say that it is wrong over there.
If somebody is on the Vyasa asana and somebody is a very respected person, then even they have their followers. And when we act in a particular way, it might be seen as disrespectful to them. It might antagonise others.
that’s why there is a tension between say, I want to protect Siddhanta and I want to follow etiquette. Well, both have to be done. But in this case, it is not an issue of Siddhanta.
So, we don’t have to make small things big. Even if somebody is doing something wrong, it is wrong to immediately think that we have to correct the wrong. Sometimes we have to find the right time and then sometimes some small wrongs need to be tolerated so that a bigger right is served.
Some people make some mistakes. We tolerate those mistakes so that at least they continue the practise of bhakti and as they continue, that is the bigger right. If they do that, then gradually they will be able to get purified and whatever wrongs they are doing, they will be able to overcome that also.
So, that’s how if we learn to be humble and sensitive in understanding others’ positions and acting appropriately, we can have a warm community where people want to belong and the devotees will flourish and the community will also flourish that way. So, I’ll summarise. I spoke today on the theme of the humility of Prithu Maharaj and I spoke on the theme of humility means to be conscious of others’ position and disposition.
So, I started by talking about how Prahlad Vara has attained a glorious victory that he has sacrificed the desire to do a sacrifice and that gave him the fruit of the greatest sacrifice that is Lord Vishnu himself came and gave darshan and blessings and the citizens are proud to have such a glorious king. Our identity is shaped not in isolation but in connection to the group that we belong to and we want to belong to certain groups when when the leader is very respectable and glorious then we feel I want to belong to it or when the people over there are welcoming and they value us. So, I talked about how people come to spirituality not just because they want to be spiritual but because they want community.
Our culture is very individualistic and it might give the freedom to do whatever you want to do but that freedom comes at the price of isolation, loneliness. Every relationship provides a bond but also brings a boundary. So, those who don’t want boundaries cannot have bonds and the practise of spiritual life brings certain boundaries, certain rules that we have to follow, do’s and don’ts and the boundaries become acceptable to the extent that the bond is relishable and for us we can’t relish the bond with Krishna so quickly because it takes a long time to experience Krishna regularly and deeply.
So, we experience Krishna through our interaction with devotees and for people to feel that in the devotee community they are welcomed, the six-fold exchanges are very important and among the six-fold exchanges opening our heart and hearing others open their heart is something which is very much lacking because we tend to be judgemental. Almost any religious society with high moral standards has a tendency towards judgmentality. People see our humility not just by how much we follow the etiquette of addressing each other respectfully or bowing down but humility is seen by how we behave with them.
So, humility is not about making ourselves feel inferior or insignificant. I talk about how bhakti has both. Bhakti makes us feel insignificant so that we are no longer full of ourselves and bhakti also makes us feel significant so that our existence has value and our actions have value as we strive to connect with Krishna through our existence and actions.
basically, I talked about how we need to make judgments because there are certain standards we follow but we need not be judgemental. So, to be judgemental means to value rules and standards over people. To be sentimental means to value people’s feelings so much that to sacrifice all standards for that purpose.
So, ritualism means we value standards over people. Relativism means we value people so much that we don’t care for the rules at all. Both are extremes to be avoided.
The balance state is that we understand other’s position, other’s disposition, where they are coming from. If somebody is not following a particular rule, we don’t hyperventilate about it. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not get upset and did not chastise Shri Kansa when he was not following the rule because he saw his emotion.
So, when we learn to make judgments without being judgemental that means that we talk about the right thing when it is needed but we do it in a way that does not send wrong signals that doesn’t discourage people. Then we can have a warm, welcoming community where people want to belong and they accept the boundaries of bhakti because the bonds of bhakti are so relishable. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. Are there any questions or comments? Thank you. Yeah.
How do we convey to people what they are doing wrong in a way that they don’t they didn’t come off as judgemental but that they feel that we are doing it for their betterment. A lot depends on the overall mode of our relationship with each other. Say if basically people feel valued, accepted and respected in a relationship then if occasionally certain negative comments come up then they are more wearable.
But if that is the primary interaction that we have with people then it becomes very painful for them. That means if somebody does something right then we hardly ever appreciate them. And if there is something wrong, immediately we catch them.
Then because there is no because people are not when somebody repeatedly criticises us our mind soon starts making branding that person as our ill-wisher. Even if that person is not our well-wisher but still when we repeatedly hear negative comments about ourselves from someone our mind starts creating a distance from them. And at one level it’s just like a psychological reflex action for emotional self-defence.
Just like if there is a hot fire, we’ll move away from it. So some people when they start feeling too much like a hot fire we start keeping a distance from them. And then we don’t they don’t take our comments seriously.
So first thing is that we need to regularly appreciate people when they do something right. And especially when parents have teenage children and teenage children go through a lot of complexity. They are themselves searching for their identity.
So often they do things which displease their parents. But if the parents constantly keep pointing that out then they just close down completely. And there’s no communication over there.
Then they don’t hear anything any feedback. So then the relationship becomes very cold. So before we give feedback, we need to give feed front.
Feed front means give prasad. Give something which is appreciative. And not in an artificial flattery sense, but genuinely that we value them.
We respect them where they are. And we would like them to be better. So the overall nature of the relationship has to be seen and you probably have heard of the concept of the emotional bank account.
Every criticism is like a withdrawal. Every appreciation is like a deposit. It’s not that we are manipulating people by treating them like a mathematical account, but we have to understand how people’s emotions work.
And this is a good metaphor to understand that. And also in general where or when we point out a fault is also important. If we do it publicly it’s if people feel humiliated by that.
If we do it privately, so in general the principle is appreciate others in public and correct them in private. But quite often we end up doing the opposite. And so if you do it in private, then it’s clear that we are not demeaning them publicly.
It also helps them to save their face. Another thing that we could do is that we try to make it as objective as possible and as less directly personal. That means there is the person, there is the person’s conditioning and there is the person’s behaviour.
So the behaviour is that they don’t come on time. The conditioning is that they are lazy. Or the conditioning is that they have some anartha of tamoguna within them because of which their laziness is there.
And there the person is there. So if we can specify that what I am criticising is not you. It is this particular behaviour of yours.
Or so rather than identifying people with their conditioning, you are such a lazy person. That means we are equating with them with their conditioning and then to defend themselves they have to defend their conditioning. But so we become the aggressor and they become the defender.
But instead if we separate them from their conditioning and say that when you come late and everybody has to wait, I get irritated. We all get upset. We all get inconvenienced.
What is happening? There is an objective fact which can be dealt with. It doesn’t feel like an attack on their whole being. And it’s like when you have to cut and somebody, a doctor has to cut, the closer we cut to the nerve, the greater is the pain.
So similarly, the more a person feels it’s an attack on me, the more difficult it is for them to tolerate it. But if we make sure that we value you, but with this particular behaviour, this particular conditioning, there is a challenge and we are not here to judge you. We are here to be your partners in fighting this.
So that way, if we can help people to see that they are separate from their conditioning and firstly we see them as separate from their conditioning, then also the feedback can be given in a way that doesn’t make them defensive but makes them introspective about how they can distance themselves from their conditioning instead of distancing themselves from the people who are pointing out their conditionings. Does that answer your question? Thank you. Thank you.
Hare Krishna. Any other questions? … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … to them, but at the same time make them understand that there are do’s and don’ts. How do we help our children accept the do’s and don’ts and at the same time find Krishna consciousness pleasurable? It’s a challenge for parents everywhere.
It’s not at all easy. In general, what you rightly said, Prabhupada told one of his college preachers, he’s a sanyasi later in our movement, he was telling me that, Prabhupada said, when you are doing college outreach, the worst thing you can do is to present Krishna consciousness as a set of rules, because nobody wants to follow rules that way. He said, we need to present Krishna consciousness as a philosophy, as a worldview.
And then within that worldview, there is a multidimensional explanation of the rationale for living in a particular way and not living in a particular way. It’s like if we are on a road and next to the road on one side there is a ditch, other side there is a big rock, the other side there is a big fall. Now, if we could see that, then naturally we’ll go on the road.
But if there is mist, and we can’t see that, then why are you telling me don’t go this way or don’t go that way. So, for most people, Maya creates a mist around their mind. And because of that, they can’t see the consequences of their choices.
So, if we just tell them do this and don’t do this, then it’s like they have to accept it only based on our authority. But if we can help them clear the mist, then when they see, they will themselves act. So, for each person, we need to see, we need to understand what is the mist that is obscuring their vision.
And then we can find out how to clear that mist. Sometimes we treat Krishna consciousness like a one size fit all formula. Everybody do this, do this, do this, do this.
And you should be happy doing this. It doesn’t work like that, because there are different mists that are obscuring different people. So, letting people speak and hearing them is very important.
And that applies to children also. That if you want to understand what is going on in their lives, what is going on in their minds, then when they speak, we need to hear them. But sometimes we hear only to judge and then criticise or evaluate at least.
Which can be done, but it has to be done maybe first after giving them a chance to speak properly, to hear them out. So, we need to understand what mist is obscuring them. Krishna consciousness is all attractive.
Prabhupada said, when he was asked how he was able to preach all over the world and make so many devotees, Prabhupada said that Krishna is all attractive. He attracted everyone. Now, Prabhupada, of course, with his humility, underplaying the role that he played, but he was also telling the truth.
Truth is that Krishna is all attractive. But the role that Prabhupada was underplaying, what he did was that he removed the mist around Krishna so that people could see Krishna. So, we have to see what is the mist that is obstructing others and then help them remove that.
So, sometimes, especially in teens, teenage at least, people may not be able to follow, want to follow Krishna consciousness, the complete package. That means most, I have seen that they like kirtans, but they don’t like japa so much. They may, they like the association of devotees, but they often feel that I want to have something else in my life also, I want to do other things.
So, when we didn’t make Krishna consciousness like one or zero package, that means that you have to do all these things, A, B, C, D, E, F, G. If they are liking one thing, then encourage them in that, appreciate them in that. Make sure that their relationship with Krishna stays strong at least in that. Prabhupada had two distinct visions of how Krishna consciousness was implemented.
In America, it was, when he started, it meant just moving into the temple. In India, when Prabhupada went back, there was no dramatic change in the willingness of Indians to commit to Krishna consciousness. They were not willing to commit before Prabhupada had gone to America.
And after he came back from America also, they were not willing to commit to becoming serious sadhaka devotees. So, Prabhupada, but because he now had the respect, the prestige, could even use the word the glamour of having western disciples, Prabhupada used that to create the life membership programme, which is like a very loose affiliation with the scorn, in the sense that people had Prabhupada’s books at their home, they had shastra at their home, they had the facility to stay in the temples and thus give them like a ladder to grow up, to climb up when they wanted to. So, similarly, so Prabhupada did present Krishna consciousness that way also, when needed.
So, if we do that, that we don’t have to present Krishna consciousness like a 1-0 package, let them do what they feel inspired to do. And we may have to bargain. Certain things which are very important for us, we lay the law and make sure that they do it.
So, we may have to, in a sense, bargain that for some things which are very important, we insist on them. But the other things are not that important, we give some leeway. So, if they have a positive experience of Krishna consciousness, then over a period of time, even if they go out and experience other things, they’ll come back to Krishna because the impressions of Krishna will be there.
So, basically, it’s complicated. But gradually, if we just help them stay connected in some way or the other, then their connection will expand in due course. Does that answer your question? Yeah, that’s true.
Thank you. So, any one last question? Or shall we stop here? So, Prabhu, I have one question, Prabhu. When we teach to our family and to others, their friends, their children, what defines a successful preaching, Prabhu? So, what is the ultimate goal of preaching that should happen to the other person? Are you talking specifically about our family members? Or in general, I? Who am I? In general, we speak to so many people, but then as per ISKCON norms, the definition of successful preaching is somebody gets initiated Satheesh Deeksha.
Is that true? Or what exactly are we trying to do when we preach people, preach to people or children at home or outside? Okay. So, what is the, how do we define success when we are doing preaching? There can be different parameters of success. Like I said, if somebody became a life member, Prabhupada considered that also success.
So, broadly, I was talking with Giriraj Maharaj. And he said that success can be in two terms, connection or contribution. That means people themselves become connected with Krishna or they contribute.
Contribution can be financial, but it doesn’t have to be financial. They might just contribute some time. They might contribute some expert advice if they have.
They might just contribute by speaking some good words about us. That they may not be so interested. Like we see Prabhupada himself, the person who brought him to meet Bhakti Sahan Sattaku, that person didn’t become a devotee.
But Prabhupada became. So basically, the way I see it is when I try to share Krishna Consciousness, I don’t even like the word preaching because it has a very judgemental connotation to it. But it’s mainstream in ISKCON.
There are certain words which Prabhupada used, which we don’t use anymore. Prabhupada used the cult of Krishna Consciousness, the cult of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. The word cult has got a very negative connotation.
So we have retired it from our vocabulary. Although Prabhupada used it. So preaching also needs to be retired gradually because it has a very judgemental connotation.
That’s why Indira Gandhi Maharaj, he had his diary of a travelling preacher. Now he has changed it to diary of a travelling monk. He did that several years ago.
But anyway, when we are sharing Krishna Consciousness, at least when I try to do it, my focus is on providing people resources and reasons for raising their consciousness and how much they want to raise their consciousness, that is between them and Krishna. So if somebody from atheism just starts thinking, instead of thinking that these religious people are nuts, they are foolish, they are sentimental, they are dangerous, they start thinking, these devotees are nice. They are intelligent.
I don’t agree with them. I don’t want to do what they want to do. But they are intelligent people.
That is also raising their consciousness. If somebody starts connecting with Krishna in any way, it might just be they start hearing classes, they start chanting, they start doing some seva, that’s also fine. So we cannot quantify success because consciousness itself is not quantifiable.
So how can Krishna, success in Krishna Consciousness be quantifiable in a numerical sense? So if somebody is just becoming appreciative of Krishna Consciousness or connecting or taking up some link with the practise of Krishna Consciousness, that is also success. Of course, because we are a part of an institution and an institution requires certain standards, an institution requires certain resources for its maintenance and for its spreading. So we will want people to come up to that standard and we can certainly help them to come up.
But it doesn’t have to be 1-0. If somebody is very eager to come for programmes, but they are not ready to chant. Now, they shouldn’t be, of course, we can encourage them to chant, but they shouldn’t be made to feel guilty about not chanting, so guilty that they stop coming for the programme also.
So now, it has to be carefully done in such a way that the path to rise up is there, but whether they want to rise up or not, whether they want to stay where they are, or just take a small step forward, we need to give them that flexibility. In fact, that’s Krishna’s mood in the Bhagavad Gita. If you consider 12.8, 12.12, Krishna has multiple levels at which we can connect with him.
And he says, just naturally, out of love, fix your mind on me. Otherwise, strive to fix your mind on me. Otherwise, work for me.
Otherwise, at least work selflessly, giving the fruits of your work for some cause. So like that, Krishna has multiple levels. So we also can have multiple levels like that.
And then we can, like somebody is wanting a very loose level of connection. So I talked about bond and boundary. The stronger the bond we want, in some ways, the smaller the boundary becomes.
But if somebody wants a loose bond, then they can have a larger boundary. So if instead of having a child, somebody is just sponsoring a child somewhere, then they have a bond with that child. But the boundary is, they don’t have to spend time with that child.
They don’t have to worry about that child. They just have to make sure that they pay whatever donation they can for sponsoring the child. But then you can’t have that intimacy, that special bond that comes, a special closeness that comes.
So if somebody doesn’t want, wants a big boundary, then they can’t have a close bond. We don’t have to push them to have a tighter bond than what they want. So Krishna says, I reciprocate how people approach.
So we also have to be like that. If somebody wants their space, then let them practise Krishna consciousness at their pace. And we don’t have to spend too much time on them.
We can just greet them. We know, okay, this person always keeps coming, but they’re not going to become serious. So whenever you come, you’re welcome.
But we don’t have to spend too much time on them. Those people who want to take steps forward, we spend more time with them. So we can say that we encourage everyone, but we invest in those who are ready to take steps forward and become serious.
And especially the family members, the first definition of success would be that our family members don’t obstruct our Krishna consciousness. If that is also happening, that’s also a good thing, not agitation. And they become supportive, that’s good.
If they themselves become involved, that’s even better. If they become committed, that’s even better. If they become as committed as we are, that’s wonderful.
The theme, the mood of Krishna, I said that, from your place, at your pace, access his grace. From your place, at your pace, access his grace. So we shouldn’t close the doors for grace to anyone.
But at the same time, we don’t have to pull people too much. Does it answer your Thank you so much and thank you for correcting, to use the right words, preaching as opposed to, I mean, using sharing Krishna consciousness as opposed to preaching. Thank you so much.
I wouldn’t call it incorrect. Preaching is not incorrect. It is just, it may come off as inappropriate.
So it’s not a correction, it’s a suggestion. Yes, thank you. Thank you very much.
Pranthraj Srimad Bhagavatam ki Jai. Srila Prabhupada ki Jai. Gaurabhatt Vrindavan ki Jai.
Thank you. Hare Krishna. Dandava.