QA in Nasik 2 April 2016

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
this is the question by my devotee what is intelligence why we have said that the Shudras, Gurus, Deities are not intelligent should we women or not read scriptures like Gita and Mahabharata during complete state of our existence some say yes and some say no we don’t know so what is intelligence and is it that the women Shudras and Vaishnavas are less intelligent yeah firstly intelligence is the capacity for discernment for understanding what is right what is wrong, what is short term, what is long term what is material, what is spiritual and this is a capacity that is present in all human beings irrespective of their gender now animals also have some discernment if a cow is grazing and the grass over here gets over the cow can choose whether to eat grass here or eat grass there but the cow cannot today in Ekadashi I could fast so it basically the human beings have the capacity to regulate our impulses according to some higher principles and that capacity to regulate the impulses according to some higher wisdom higher principles that is intelligence now that intelligence all human beings have it so in the scriptures when often Naradeha Naradeha is used Nara is often used in an inclusive sense like when a man proposes God disposes now this is not gender biassed language when a woman proposes God disposes also equal it to her man here man is used in an inclusive sense to refer to all of humanity so like that Nara the human life is very precious that is used in an inclusive sense to refer to Nara and Sri both now having said that the basic capacity for discerning that is present in all the beings sorry all human beings and now with different human beings males and females they have different psychophysical natures the soul is essentially the same but the body and the mind are made differently and there are whole books written about this hundreds of books written about it practically but essentially women have a stronger emotional factor by which they can offer love, care they have a unique function which men cannot replicate that is bringing fresh life into this world and caring for that fresh life at a time when that the infants are utterly dependent on others among all the species in nature no other species has its infants in a state of utter helplessness as much as humans have even birds their baby birds they also cannot fly about, they cannot flutter about but none other species as helpless as the humans and that helplessness of the humans of human infants is actually meant to help parents develop a culture of selflessness it is said that adults produce children and then children produce adults what does that mean? adults come together and produce a child but as long as I and me, we may quarrel, we may fight but when a child is born, the child comes in the centre and both mature because of having parents and the adult is responsible for taking care of the child so that’s a whole different subject but suffice it to say that women have a more emotional more developed human emotional faculty as compared to men and correspondingly the rational faculty is less developed, that is more developed in humans, in males now when Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita mamipartha vyapashyate isyupavayonayah sthriyo vaisyas tashukras te piyanti parantate so in 9.32 he says that te piyanti parantate, even they can attain perfection so here it is said that who can attain perfection? by the practise of bhakti yoga, sthriya vaisyas shudra tapavayonayah all of them can attain perfection now on my website I have an elaborate answer to this question so we look at 24 commentaries of acharyas on this verse and almost 14 of them talk about tapavayonayah as a 4th category so sthriya vaisyas shudra and tapavayonayah so tapavayonayah is not an adjective describing sthriya vaisyas shudra rather it is a 4th category now Sri Prabhupada also talks about this once or twice in his lectures on this verse but in this current translation that is there by BVT tapavayonayah is like an adjective applying to these 3 categories but that is not a very scripturally sound interpretation at least an alternative interpretation is defensible because in the Vedic culture the shudras are considered lowborn vaisyas are not considered lowborn the brahmana, kshatriyas and vaisyas all 3 of them are considered mischievous all 3 of them get the Gayatri mantra at the time of their 2nd initiation so in that sense to call vaisyas as tapavayonayah is inappropriate so that’s why sthriya vaisyas shudra tapavayonayah and tapavayonayah it is explained it refers to all those who do not fall in the varnashram category so if that is the understanding of these words then it is not that women are considered less intelligent it is that women are also they are separate from tapavayonayah they are also another category and now what does Prabhupada sometimes would use the word women are less intelligent now what does he mean by that it is if you look at it Prabhupada was very clear in terms of the soul the body the soul of a male or a female the soul doesn’t have any connection with the body gender the soul is similar, the soul is transcendent now at the level of the soul there is no difference at the level of the body if we see there are different studies which talk about different things and sometimes women quite often, girls they may get better marks in exam than boys so in various fields if you look at the material level there is no clear cut statement which can prove that women are less intelligent or women are more intelligent so then what is Prabhupada talking about whenever he speaks such things, one thing important is that in Acharya’s words should never be seen in separation from his actions so that means that how did Prabhupada deal with people he never treated, none of his female disciples ever felt that they were ever less intelligent he treated them as less intelligent or anything like that Prabhupada would sometimes quote that ok the female brain is smaller than the male brain but then one time one Mataji disciple, Vishakha Mataji she went and asked Prabhupada in Philadelphia Prabhupada, the Prabhus are saying that now brain is smaller therefore we are less intelligent Prabhupada just looked at them when you chant Hare Krishna your brain grows laughter laughter now somebody must say it is not like the chanting Hare Krishna causes the brain size to grow so Prabhupada basically don’t take this argument very seriously, now Prabhupada had a sense of humour which can be forgotten if we just look at his words disconnected from the context of those words and that idea of a female brain being smaller than a male brain that also is something which Prabhupada learnt from his college professor when he was in Scottish Church College so that college professor was a very very conservative Christian protestant and he had certain conceptions and he taught them Prabhupada spoke them, Prabhupada was not quoting Shastra at that time and essentially Prabhupada never dealt with women in any way which made them feel that they were less intelligent so now what does less intelligent essentially mean then it is in terms of the Prabhupada usually talks about intelligence not in terms of mathematical or analytical or verbal capacities he talked about it in terms of understanding one’s essential spiritual identity so for all living beings identify with their body but in the female form the identification with the body is often much stronger for many women their whole sense of self worth and self identity comes from their physical beauty from their physical appeal and nature has also given women physical appeal for the purpose of the continuation of the race so in the female form the identification with the body is likely to be greater and in that sense the women can be said to be less intelligent but if one starts understanding spiritual philosophy and starts practising that spiritual philosophy then all such considerations no longer matter so as devotees we should always focus on that which is favourable to bhakti and move onwards in our life so if some devotees always keep saying women are less intelligent then if anybody starts saying women are less intelligent we should understand that they are less intelligent first because they are seeing people, they are seeing Vaishnavis they are saying people as not as souls or as devotees, they are seeing them as women first we should be able to see everyone as souls first in terms of practical conduct there is of course certain etiquette to be followed but essentially if you find that somebody is very dismissive you just keep a distance from them and associate with those you feel encouraged and we move forward in our bhakti accordingly now the question about should women study scripture when the body is in unclean state see studying scripture is a part of the Bhagwat Vidhi there are two broad modes of purification, there is the Mancharatravidhi which centres on the manifestation of God in his deity form and there is the Bhagwat Vidhi which centres on the manifestation of God in the form of song itti murtya vidhanena mantra murtyam amurtikam mantra murtyam so we normally think of murtyam as the deity but mantra murtyam, Krishna manifests the mantra as manifesting transcendental sound also so in general for deity worship there are certain standards of purity and cleanliness that are required and those standards should be followed so deity worship as much as possible it is if there are alternatives it should be avoided but as far as the Bhagwat Vidhi is concerned in terms of hearing studying that is something which can always be done because ultimately the principle of bhakti yoga is always remember Krishna so if we are told we can’t do devotional activities at particular times based on the body condition then how can one always remember Krishna so always remember Krishna means that there are certain ways in which we can remember Krishna at all situations and the Bhagwat Vidhi is a part of that so hearing, studying scripture connecting with Krishna Krishna in sound vibration that can be done in all conditions as far as deity worship is concerned if in the home there is some alternative somebody else can offer the food but if it is not practical nowadays most people live in nuclear families so if there is no alternative then at that time one can still do the offering also the important principle in bhakti is that our connection with Krishna should never be interrupted and if it can be regulated according to tradition and it can be done that is perfectly fine but if not still our bhakti should always go on and all the rituals all the traditions that are there they are meant to facilitate our connection with Krishna not obstruct that connection ok you want to add something on this any other questions yeah question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question question so there is conflict amongst the gods also so how to resolve that the first question is Ram’s idea so when the citizens of Ayodhya told Ram to stay on the kingdom he followed his putra dharma and went to the forest but when those citizens they accused Sita at that time he took their words seriously and he abandoned his pati dharma and he followed his So, what was the basis for his decision making? Yes, when we are having different roles, at that time there will be different priorities at different times. So, for example, when Ram is still a son, he is a prince, he is not yet the king, so his primary duty at that time is not to the citizens, his primary duty is to his father at that particular time. And so, he at that time focused on that duty.
So, all of us, we have various roles and various relationships, various activities in those relationships, but there is a hierarchy within that and in his case, he felt that his father’s duty, his father’s instruction is the most important. That way, even his father was torn, his father did not want, Vashat Maharaj did not want Ram to rule, but he was obliged because of the desire to honour the Lord and actually that is the more important thing, it was not just his father’s will or as a citizen’s will. What was the honourable course of action in that situation? Kshatriyas have enormous power and that power, because often in a kingdom, when a Kshatriya is there, there is no one to counter that king, the Kshatriya is the king, no one has that much power and such concentration of power in one person is in many ways a recipe for abuse of power.
So, one of the important check and balance for Kshatriyas in preventing them from abusing their power is they are ingrained with a very deep sense of honour. That means, once you give a word, you have to keep it, because otherwise, they may give a word and they may not keep it, who is going to haul them over the poles, who is going to actually challenge them or counter them, because often there will be no one for that. So, in Kshatriyas, the word of honour, the choosing the honourable course of action is considered extremely important and he considered here that Dashrath Maharaj had given a word to Kaikeyi, that I will give you two words and therefore, that was his primary consideration, obedience to his father and more than obedience to his father, because his father, he did not directly, Dashrath Maharaj actually never told Ram to go to the forest, it was Kaikeyi who told on behalf of Dashrath and Dashrath actually tried to stop him in various ways, but was honouring his father’s word that was important and that’s why he chose to at that time go to the forest.
Now, in the second case, when the citizens came back, now the question may come here, first of all, those same citizens, when Ram is going out to the forest, they appear to be such great devotees, they are crying in separation, often the song of the agony of the Ayodhya Vasis and how they follow Ram deep in the forest, how in the separation of Ram, the whole city of Ayodhya becomes like a ghost town, completely inactive, completely desolate, that’s the whole thing to say that Ram is a very great devotee, the Ayodhya Vasis are very great devotees of Ram, then how would they become so judgemental towards Sita later on? So, this is ultimately the arrangement of the Lord. He arranged for the citizens to act in particular, it was not the majority of the citizens, there were a few citizens who said like that and that word was spreading among the citizens. Every manifestation of the Lord could descend for a particular purpose and Lord Ram’s manifestation is to demonstrate the principle of sacrifice.
Now, the Valmiki Ramayana starts with saying that it will describe the characteristics of an ideal human being and one characteristic the Ramayana consistently depicts is sacrifice. Sacrifice means giving up one’s own comfort and pleasure for some higher cause and all the characters in the Ramayana assist in this mood of sacrifice. So, that means, why does Lakshman come with Ram? That is a mood of sacrifice.
Why does Sita come with Ram? That’s a mood of sacrifice. Now, why does Bharat stay on, Bharat not accept the kingdom but live in austerity similar to what Ram is doing in the forest? That’s the mood of sacrifice. So, the whole Ramayana’s focus is to illustrate the mood of sacrifice and these citizens when they start accusing mother Sita that is also to illustrate another mood of sacrifice.
So, otherwise when you say that Ram he fought such a big war, he defeated Ravana, he got Sita back and he abandoned her. Why did he have to fight the whole war if that was there? He could just have let Sita stay with Ravana. Why did he have to fight the war? The point was Ram always acted honourably and honourably acting means obeying his father, honourably acting means making sure that he protected his wife and rescued her once she was abducted and acting honourably at this particular time meant that he had to send his wife away from him to Valmiki Mundasiru.
Sometimes people say that Ram exiles Sita. Exile is not really appropriate word for this because exile means normally in those times because when Bharat comes back, Bharat says that how could Ram have been exiled? He says exile is the second worst punishment. The worst punishment for a criminal is execution and one level below that is exile.
Exile means basically everything that you have is taken away. Execution means everything including your life is taken away. Exile means everything is taken away except your life.
A person is sent out to the forest, into the jungle out of one’s own freedom with nothing for oneself. But that was not what happened to Sita. With Sita, she was taken to Valmiki Mundasiru and she was kept over there.
Valmiki Mundasiru also took care of her among the female hermits that were there in the ashram. They took up a motherly role towards Sita and that Valmiki Mundasiru was still in Ram’s care. So, indirectly Sita was still under Ram’s care.
So, at that particular time Ram felt that his duty as a king required him to demonstrate detachment. And this was not simply reputation. There is a difference between honour and reputation.
Reputation is what the world thinks about you. Honour is whether I act in the right way, in the honourable way. So, Ram if he had been simply concerned about his reputation, then actually for a king, in that culture, the most reputation enhancing thing to do was to perform sacrifices.
Like the Ashwamedha Yajna or Rajasuri Yajna which Krishna Maharaj performed. And whenever Ashwamedha Yajna is to be performed, at that time it has to be performed as a couple. The husband and wife have to perform it together.
And for Ram to perform it without his wife, now that was actually a dent on his reputation. So, it was, it was, but he did care for that. He did not, he did not, he did not abandon Sita.
He actually entrusted her safely to another place. And more importantly, he never tried to replace Sita with anyone. Simply what effigy of Sita made.
And that was next to him when the sacrifice was being performed. So, Ram is by no means rejecting his responsibility towards Sita, nor is he rejecting Sita. He is actually demonstrating the whole Ramayana’s mood of sacrifice.
And that sacrifice is that Sita sacrifices to assist in Ram’s mission. And the significant thing is that Sita does not challenge Ram’s judgement over it. Sita does not protest.
Oh, you do not know, I was so chased. Why are you rejecting like this? She understands what Ram is doing. And Sita, she challenges Ram earlier when Ram tells Sita to stay at home and not go and come with him to the forest.
At that time, he challenges. He says, I must come with you. But now she does not challenge, I must stay with you.
So, the problem often comes when we take the current cultural standards and try to evaluate scripture and scriptural decisions from those cultural standards. So, yes, in today’s society for a man to turn away his pregnant wife, that is scandalous, that should not be done. But in the context of Ramayana, there is a whole different dynamic going on with it.
And no Acharya has ever told that this particular action of Ram is what everyone has to follow in life. No one has told like that. No Acharya and all those who worship Ram and they have talked about this.
Those who worship Ram and those who have taught the Ramayana, they have taught this simply as an example of how sacrificing Ram was. So, he chose that dharma, that was not just the, he rejected his pati dharma, but rather he focused on his raj dharma and he did the pati dharma in that context by indirectly keeping Sita in his protection by keeping her in Balmiki s ashram. Does this answer your question? Now, the second question is about when we have different roles, how do we choose among the various roles that we have? We may have a responsibility to our family, responsibility to our job, maybe in society and we may have to do certain things at that time.
We have relatives. Yes, at such times, the decision making requires maturity. It requires intelligence which can distance oneself from that situation.
See, whenever there is a situation, there is a pressure of that situation. They may push, do this, do not do this, do not do this, like that. But, intelligence means or maturity means that we are able to raise ourselves above that situation and look at that from a greater distance and objectivity and then evaluate.
So, quite often, we cannot always in advance know what is the right decision. So, for example, if I have office and I am told that, boss, you have to work and then you have to come home because there is some important thing at home, what do I do at that time? At that time, we may just do whatever feels good or whatever makes sense at that time. But afterwards, we can deliberate.
Sometimes, on the spur of the moment, if we have to take decisions, we just use whatever best intelligence we have to take the decision. But after that, we come back and deliberate. Consider a situation and I was caught in this.
What made me caught in this? Maybe I could have planned something earlier and I could have avoided the situation or I could have dealt with the situation in that way. So, the life does not come with a blueprint of how to act. It is something which we all have to learn ourselves by experience and by intelligence.
So, broadly speaking, the basic principle is that we should not focus on one role too much at the expense of other roles. Success in one role cannot compensate for failure in another role. That means I may be very successful in the professional.
But if my children are getting into drugs, if my marriage is falling apart, then my success as a professional is not going to be much happiness. So, it is better to aim for moderate success in all the walks of life, rather than dazzling success in one walk of life or one role in life and devastating failure in another walk of life. So, how to come to that moderate balance? That requires maturity.
And to some extent, our practise of bhakti enables us to develop that detachment, that objectivity. Because bhakti, it is ultimately meant to take us towards transcendence. Bhakti practises also bring us to goodness.
And when we come to goodness, we can understand things in their proper perspective. Prabhupada says intelligence means to see things in their proper perspective. This is more important, this is less important.
This is what I need to do, this is what can be done later. So, by diligently practising bhakti, and by investing time in looking at our own experiences, and evaluating our course of actions, then we can come to a policy about how we could act in such situations. And that way, we can decide which roles to be important at what times.
Sounds interesting. Yes, ma’am. Okay, you can.
You have another mic on. Hare Krishna, Prabhupada. First of all, I take this opportunity to express that I am a very big fan of yours.
The moment I have joined ISKCON, I have been always following your articles, all your websites, and your videos. So, thank you so much that I can see you live and hear you. And my question for today is, Prabhupada, I am so much confused about surrender.
Like, when we surrender to Krishna, it means attachment, attachment towards Krishna. While performing our day-to-day activities, what ends up happening is, we become attached to the members to whom we are performing the activities. So, I always get confused, is it the right course? I mean, every day, when do we constantly say to Krishna that, Krishna, I surrender unto you.
But somewhere, throughout the day, or for many days, we forget to say it. Is it required that we constantly say it? And, while getting attached to, like, getting attached, then how do we perform our duties? So, surrendering to Krishna means becoming attached to Krishna. But while performing our various duties, we often become attached to our family members or those whom we are doing those duties.
So, how can we stay attached to Krishna? How can we surrender practically? Does it mean that we just say, Krishna, I surrender to you? Yes. Verbalising our intentions, verbalising our emotions can often help make them more concrete. What we are feeling inside, if you speak it, utter it aloud, it often makes those feelings more concrete.
At the very least, it reminds us, this is what I should be doing. But at the same time, verbalisation can also become an empty ritual, where we verbalise without meaning it. So, there has to be an inner redirection of the heart, which happens primarily by the process of growth.
So, for our spiritual growth, when we are directly connecting with Krishna, when we are chanting, when we are coming to the temple, when we are associating with devotees, when we are hearing, doing worship to Krishna, that time we offer our consciousness as much as possible to Krishna. That is the most important and if you are doing that, then Krishna will gradually permeate our consciousness and he will become the goal of everything that we do. So, we take care of our children.
Why? Because they are entrusted by Krishna to us. We take care of our family members because they are entrusted to us by Krishna. And sometimes we talk in terms of this duality, attachment and detachment.
So, we should not be attached, we should be detached. But actually, there is a third thing beyond attachment and detachment. Beyond attachment and detachment is commitment.
And so, bhakti is not just, we cannot suddenly imagine that I am attached to Krishna, nor can we become detached from our worldly situations, worldly relationships. But bhakti is a process of primarily commitment. Commitment to our devotional activities.
And by that commitment, attachment will develop. We keep practising bhakti in a committed way, by that our attraction, our attachment to Krishna will develop. So, that commitment is the way to develop attachment to Krishna.
And when we have a limited understanding of Krishna, we think that Krishna means, okay, Krishna is in the temple, Krishna is in, the manifesto is the holy name, Krishna is manifest in the scripture. We think Krishna is present only there. But that is the Kanishka Adhikari level.
The Madhyam Adhikari level is, we understand that my relationship with Krishna depends not only on how I relate with Krishna, it also depends on how I relate with devotees. It also depends on how I relate with innocent people. It also depends on how I relate with envious.
So, we see the presence of Krishna everywhere. And we see our connection with Krishna depends on how we deal with different kinds of people. So, our commitment to Krishna actually includes our commitment to our family members.
It is not that our family relationships and our relationship with Krishna are competitors. It is not like that. Sometimes it may appear within the 24 hours of our day, should I do this or should I do that? So, at that time, it may appear as their competitors.
That is something which can happen for everyone. What to speak of then in the case of our material relationships and our relationship with Krishna. Even if you come to a temple, sometimes, should I do what this devotee is telling me? Should I do what this devotee is telling me? So, that is a functional, functional situation.
But in principle, in philosophical understanding, our family relationships and our relationship with Krishna are not competitors. Our relationship with Krishna includes our relationship with our family members. So, commitment to Krishna also means commitment to doing our relationship, commitment to our relationships with those who are related with Krishna.
Now, of course, the specific way in which we act in those commitments may vary depending on the nature of that relationship, depending on how they are disposed towards Krishna or not disposed towards Krishna. The specifics may vary. But in principle, we should not think that bhakti requires us to be cold hearted or indifferent or apathetic towards our family duties or our family members.
The Bhagavad Gita talks about detachment. It does not talk about irresponsibility. And what is the difference between detachment and irresponsibility? See, detachment is after the action.
Irresponsibility is before the action. That means if a student does not study for the exam and says I am detached from the exam. You are not detached, you are irresponsible.
But detachment means that I do my studies, I do my exams. And then after that, I do not keep worrying, oh, how much marks will I get? What will be my position? What will be my future? No, I have done my part. Now, I am letting Krishna do his part.
So, detachment is sattvic, detachment in the mode of goodness. Detachment comes from a proper understanding of our position in the scheme of things. Detachment comes from understanding that there are certain things which are in my control.
And there are certain things which are not in my control. So, that is intemperate, where irresponsibility is tamasic. That comes from not wanting to do anything which is demanding, anything which is challenging, which requires us to focus, to concentrate, to endeavour.
So, with respect to our family members, we should not be worrying too much whether I am getting attached to my family members. Our focus should be on how can I best serve? Okay, how can I best act in this relationship? In a way by which I can move closer to Krishna, I can help others move closer towards Krishna. And there is attachment, there is affection.
Attachment is undesirable. But affection is not just desirable, it is essential. And that affection essentially means that we offer our love to Krishna and we offer our love to others.
In fact, when we are connected with Krishna properly, then we are not emotionally so dependent on others. Because by our practise of sadhana bhakti, we get fulfilment internally, we get a sense of security, we get a sense of satisfaction by our practise of bhakti and then we do not depend so much emotionally on others. And actually, if we are not emotionally dependent on others, then we can be more affectionate in that relationship.
We can be more responsible, we can actually bring more constructive and contribute to that relationship if we are not emotionally dependent. Because if you are emotionally dependent, then we will simply do whatever they want us to, even if that is not good for us, even if that is not good for them. So, bhakti actually makes our material relationships also stabler and stronger, because it removes that element of emotional dependence in those relationships.
And therefore, enables us to act in a way that is truly beneficial. Does it answer your question? You had a question? Very interesting. The Supreme Lord is the emissary of the living entity.
So, when he comes, he has to rescue the living entity. So, why he performs such pastimes which create influence, controversy, and cannot be appreciated by the individual? Why not only those pastimes which can be appreciated by various people? Krishna is the lover of all living beings, and he descends to deliver them. Then why does when he comes to this world, perform pastimes which privilege people? Why not only those pastimes which actually can elevate and enlighten people? Yes, Krishna descends to this world to elevate people.
That is definitely true. At the same time, Krishna is reciprocal. See, love can be unilateral, but a loving relationship cannot be unilateral.
Relationship has to be bilateral. It has to be reciprocal. I can love someone and they may not even care for me.
But then there cannot be much of a relationship between us. So, when Krishna descends to this world, he descends for benefiting all living beings. But there are living beings who are opposed to him.
Their purpose in life is to often defy God, to deny God, to go against God. And at one level, this world is an arena for experimentation and rectification. Experimentation means the soul wants to try out.
Should I do this? Should I do that? Should I do that? Maybe this will make me happy. This will make me happy. So, the world offers us an arena for experimentation.
And then once we understand, oh, all these things do not make me happy. It is only serving Krishna that makes me happy. Then there is rectification.
Then the world offers a facility for rectification also. So, that experimentation, that exploring of multiple alternatives, that is not only with respect to the things in this world. That applies even to Krishna.
So, the souls, when they are in this world, they will perceive Krishna in different ways. So, these multiple options are given because the souls have a wide variety of desires. This last year, I was in Melbourne.
So, at that time, one devotee asked a question. He said, we are told to do good and we are told to avoid bad. But why is it that in the world, there are so many bad options? The bad options are so many and the good options are so few.
Why is that? So, I answered, that is how it always is in any multiple choice exam. Four wrong options, one right option. The student could make a case against the teacher.
He said, you put four wrong options. That is why I failed. But the teacher also gives knowledge.
The teacher also gives knowledge. And if the choosing of the answer was simply based on guesswork, then you could make a case against the teacher. But if the teacher is given knowledge and the student has had the opportunity to study that knowledge and then choose, then if the student does not choose properly, that is because they are not studying well.
So, similarly, just as there are multiple choice exam, the wrong options are not meant to fail the student. The wrong presence and the wrong options, if the student knows there are going to be wrong options, then their presence makes the student study carefully. And by studying carefully, the student can choose the right option and gain marks and move forward.
So, like that, there is a right understanding of Krishna and there is a wrong understanding of Krishna or less than correct right understanding of Krishna. And all these understandings are possible because the souls approach with the different desires, different mentalities, different dispositions towards Krishna. And Krishna said, ये अधामां पर पद्धिनते ताम से फैल हो जाने हूं। Well, all people surrender to me, I reciprocate accordingly.
So, Krishna not only descends to this world, Krishna also gives us philosophy. Krishna also gives us the philosophy by which you can understand his actions in this world. Krishna also gives us the bhakti tradition from which we can get a clearer understanding of his actions.
So, he performs actions in a way that is reciprocal with people’s desires. Those who want to come close to him, they will come closer to him by observing those actions. Those who want to go further away from him, they will use those very actions to go further away from him.
And that is simply his reciprocal nature. Krishna does not discriminate, Krishna reciprocates. So, he reciprocates according to our desires.
So, if we want to, if you look at the world, there is so much intricacy, there is so much complexity, there is so much coordination, that all this cannot have come without an underlying supreme intelligence. But people can always find out something wrong in the world. Now, we all drink water, none of us can drink water if there is no rains.
And the whole system of rain is so intricate and complex. That is all a manifestation of divine intelligence. But atheists can accuse that if God has provided rains for us to have water, then why are there rains on the ocean? There is no need for water.
Yes, there is rains on water so that atheists can ask this question and doubt the existence of God. To understand this point, let us suppose there is a house in which there are 100 rooms. And 99 rooms are spick and span clean.
And one room is disordered. And then a wise person will say, no, there must be a cleaner for this room, there must be someone maintaining this room, that is how the 99 rooms are clean. And if that one room is unclean, there must be some reason why this person is not maintaining, why there is uncleanness in this room.
But if somebody takes that one unclean room and says that, therefore, because this room is unclean, there is nobody maintaining this house. No, that is a invalid understanding. If somebody wants to actually accuse that this room is not maintained properly, they might take that as evidence.
But no rational jury will base the evidence, base a judgement only on that one room. So, like that, in general, when we look at whether the world itself or Krishna s action in this world, whatever it is, if we look at his overall actions, they are not only understandable, they are appealing, they are transcendentally appealing, very beautiful. But there are some actions which he performs, which Jiva Goswami explains in the Bhagavad Sandarbha, he calls them as Asura Mohanlila.
Asura Mohanlila, these pastimes are performed for deluding the demons. Why? Because that is what they want to do. They do not want to surrender to Krishna.
Even if Krishna comes in front of them, they will not defy him. So, Krishna allows them to do that. And so, these pastimes, for example, Krishna was shot by an arrow and he died.
And then afterwards, he left behind his body. This woman says, therefore, Krishna had a weapon in the body. But if you look at the circumstances, there is an arrow which hit the leg.
Now, anyone with the basic knowledge of the body knows that wounds to the leg are not fatal. They are not fatal. And Krishna was not just some sickly person who could be knocked down by a small wound.
Even a wound to the leg, it has to spread, the infection has to go to the body, then after that it may become fatal. But Krishna was just full health and an arrow hit his leg. So, how could he die at that time? It was his leela.
And that was evident from the fact that Krishna actually blessed the arrow hunter. If somebody kills you unfairly, you know, bless that person, because of that person. Krishna blessed that person.
So, Krishna’s whole pastime of departing from this world, that is Asura Mohan Leela. So, when Krishna performs Rashtrila, which is also another misunderstood pastime, that is actually to demonstrate the beauty of the spiritual world. That is a whole different answer.
But I will just briefly describe this. That is that Krishna performs, Krishna’s three kinds of activities are misunderstood. One is like the activities where he seems to be defeated, or he seems to be destroyed, which is like the particular pastime of he dying.
The other is where Krishna seems to perform activities which are the Gopis, his pastime in the Gopis, they seem to be immoral. But actually, Krishna is demonstrating the sublime beauty of the spiritual world, what all happens in the spiritual world. So, Krishna’s pastime in the Gopis demonstrate the highest love, that everything in this world can be given up for the sake of love.
Krishna’s pastime in the Gopis are not immoral. When the Gopis leave their family for Krishna, they are not being immoral, they are being transmoral. The immoral means one gives up morality for the sake of one’s selfish desires.
But transmoral means one gives up morality for a principle higher than morality, that is selfish devotion. So, they demonstrate the highest level of love between Krishna and his devotees. And Krishna’s pastimes in Kurukshetra or the Kurukshetra war are concerned that Krishna sometimes seems to act immorally in fighting with the Kauravas.
There is a morality behind that also. But essentially, Krishna demonstrates a principle called Kshatoshatyam. Kshatoshatyam means with the cunning, be cunning.
And that is also according to morality. And Krishna tells Arjuna to shoot Karna when Karna is weaponless. At that time, is he being immoral? No.
Karna had done the same thing to Abhimanyu earlier. Karna had done the same thing to Arjuna on that very day earlier, when Arjuna’s chariot had also sunk into the ground. And at the beginning of the war, when Dhristadyumna and Bhishma had met, at that time Duryodhana had come, they took command of Duryodhana and told Dhristadyumna that you should remember and follow the codes of war, the codes of Kshatriya conduct.
So, Dhristadyumna started thinking that why all along the Kauravas have acted so sinfully, now why are they following the codes of morality? So, then he said, yes, he said, we will follow the codes of conduct, codes of Kshatriya conduct, as long as you follow the codes of Kshatriya conduct. If you, we won’t be the first to break this code of conduct. But if you break them, we won’t let the Kshatriya code of conduct hold us back from hitting back at you.
So, that was the agreement at that particular time. And the Kauravas broke the code of conduct first. The first major violation was their killing of Abhimanyu.
And then they were paid back in kind. So, Krishna does not advocate a utopian morality. That means, just stick to morality, no matter what happens.
Morality has a purpose. And morality is not contextual, categorical, it is contextual. Categorical means this is always right and this is always wrong.
Speaking truth is good, speaking false is wrong. But suppose there are rioters who are rioting and our friend is being chased by those rioters and our friend comes to our house and he hides in our house and the rioters knock on our door. Is he there? Should I speak the truth at that time? Speaking truth is good.
But at that time, it will cause a death of a person. So, it is not that right is one category, wrong is one category. No, there may be categories of right and wrong, but the decision of right and wrong is not categorical.
It is contextual. Something which may seem to be right at one situation may actually be wrong in another situation. So, that is what the Mahabharata demonstrates is not utopian morality, but pragmatic morality.
Morality that is based on context. And that is why Krishna, if we look at Krishna’s actions through the philosophical context that the Bhakti tradition gives us, then we will not misunderstand. Then our attraction to Krishna will increase by understanding his actions.
Are gurukuls or schools in ISKCON really helpful for the children for their overall education and development and making them true leaders of the society? Are gurukuls or schools in ISKCON helpful for making the children a true leader in society? There is the, I explained yesterday the Sambandha, there is a vidya and there is prayogam. Sambandha is the philosophical knowledge of who we are and what is our relationship with Krishna. Abhidheya is the practical process by which we are connected with Krishna.
And Abhidheya will vary from very important time and place circumstances. So, in the traditional Indian culture, the gurukul was the best way, was a normal and natural, very beneficial way by which children could get education and become both materially equipped in terms of skills and resources for earning a livelihood and also spiritually knowledgeable. Now, whether that same system is applicable today, whether it is beneficial today, that is something which is a matter of ongoing exploration.
So, even Anshula Prabhupada was present. Anshula Prabhupada, we had ISKCON had a gurukul at Dallas at that time. And he told us that we can send our children there.
But even at that time, Prabhupada did not insist that his children should go there. If some others felt, no, we cannot be separate from our children, Prabhupada said fine. Prabhupada did not condemn that you are attached or anything like that.
See, taking care of the children is primarily the parents responsibility. And the parents have to use their discretion to find out what is the best way in which they can prepare their children for the world materially and spiritually both. So, right now, there are broadly four different models that are there.
There are many, but four models. One is a gurukul where there is simply traditional education that is given. And children who go to those gurukuls, they do not get any degrees in terms of modern education, but they learn life skills.
And they can start their own enterprise or they can do various activities by which they can earn a living. So, this is one model. The second is where devotees themselves start schools, where there is a primarily that the current syllabus is taught.
And along with that, there is spiritual syllabus also there is taught. And in that case, the students are in a protected environment, devotional environment. And they learn and they grow so that they can also get some respectable position in, they have a degree by which they can get a respectable position in today’s mainstream society also.
At the same time, they get spiritual education. Third is that there are many devotee parents who choose to homeschool their children. Now, homeschooling is a big responsibility.
And if and that primarily falls on the mother, mother can do that and the bond of affection that forms in the mother and child is very wonderful. Sometimes a group of mothers can come together and they can together homeschool, that is also a possibility. The fourth is children go to the schools that are there in today’s society, but try to protect them as much as possible within that education system.
And maybe within that if there are some children who come from more cultured parents, and there are little more children, we encourage them to mix with those children and protect them. So, which option may work out the best, that will vary from person to person. And not only from the parent’s discretion, but also from children’s disposition.
So, the children should not in the long run feel deprived because of a particular course of action the parent will inspire them to take up. So, the most practical in terms of long term sustainability is the second option, where devotees come together as a community grows, the devotees themselves make a school. And that actually becomes a very good engagement for the devotee congregation homeschool, especially the Vaishnavis in the congregation, they can become teachers in the school.
And although it is a challenging thing, in the long run, it is very good for the community. But specifically, the gurukul mode of education, it is not that all parents have to do that, nor is it that the spiritual authorities insist that it should be done. The principle, whether it is gurukul education or homeschooling, is to equip children.
And what way in today’s situation children can be best equipped, that will vary according to every circumstance. So, it is important for parents to themselves take responsibility and try to understand the children’s nature, try to observe what facilities are available, and then accordingly make an informed decision. And of course, we can consult us spiritual guides while making a decision and take their inputs also.
But there is no need to adhere to any particular form of education as absolutely essential for the practise of bhakti. Now, many of the devotees who are teachers in our movement, they went through the mainstream system of education. Now, I went through the mainstream system of education.
Now, I am trying to teach Bhagavad Gita with my capacity. Now, if I had been taught Bhagavad Gita since my childhood, maybe things would have been better. But we have to work with what we have.
We cannot just imagine things. See, bhakti, I conclude this point, bhakti is not about turning back the clock. Bhakti is about turning on the canvas.
Turning back the clock means we try to recreate the past in the present. That is not possible. The world has changed.
We cannot go back to 16th century Bengal or the third millennia BC when Krishna was here. We cannot turn back the clock. Bhakti is about turning on the compass.
Turning on the compass means the heart has a natural attraction towards Krishna, whether it is our heart or whether it is children’s heart. And how to activate that attraction and how to provide facility for that attraction to grow while also growing in this world, that is a challenge which all parents have to individually take. Guruji, this is since I was 15th generation, that Prabhupada said that 50% of my work is over, and 50% that is Devi Varnashtra is still 20.
So in terms of Varnashtra, then we have Raman, Chitra, Vaishya, etc. So all the categories are there, all the activities are there. Of course, the same is Krishna.
But then social aspect is there and religious aspect is there. It is a broad category. So now how to understand it and how to go about it? Okay, so now we just said that Prabhupada said 50% of my work is remaining in terms of Varnashram.
So what exactly is Varnashram? How is it to be implemented in today’s world? Firstly, whatever Prabhupada wanted to emphasise, he gave in his books. And this emphasis on Varnashram is not found in his books. Now this statement 50% of my work is remaining, it is not found in any of his written books.
It is there in his conversations, but still the conversations are not of that same level of authority as in written books. Second point is that Prabhupada also told us that I have given you everything necessary for going back to Godhead. That means Prabhupada has given us 100% in whatever he has given us for our practise of bhakti and for our going back to Godhead.
So now Varnashram is a material arrangement. It is meant for a spiritual purpose, but Varnashram is not a spiritual arrangement itself. It is a material arrangement.
And as per Jayadalya Mahaprabhu in his famous verse, he actually rejects all Varnas and Avasya. So Varnashram is also something which we have to transcend ultimately. So Varnashram was Sri Prabhupada when he saw that he was, Prabhupada was very pragmatic.
Pragmatic means he was very practical. It is like a warrior, when a warrior is fighting a war, the warrior has to fight the war based on the conditions that are there at that time. So if you look at Sri Prabhupada’s writing in 1965, 66 up to 1970, even up to 1970 to 73.
Now he basically says the system of Varnashram has failed in India, and Varnashram is not practical, the caste system has become very degenerate, and therefore one should simply practise bhakti and move onwards towards Krishna. Then later on when devotees still had difficulties in their practises, those with the renounced order could not continue the renounced order, even the marriages were not very stable. So at that time Prabhupada felt that there are some devotees are not just able to practise transcendence directly.
So there has to be some social arrangement by which they can practise as they transcend, and he recommended Varnashram. But Prabhupada himself did not give any clear directions about how Varnashram must be practised, how it is to be implemented. And the essence of Varnashram is not division of society into four varnas and four ashrams.
The essence of Varnashram is making one’s material circumstances conducive for one’s spiritual growth. The essence is that we create our orient our material life in such a way that it becomes conducive for our practise of bhakti. So that will vary depending on how that is to be done, that will vary depending on time, place, circumstances.
So some devotees feel that Varnashram means that people should go and live in the villages, in farm communities, and that is where they should practise bhakti. Yes, that is one way of practising bhakti, but bhakti is not dependent on anything material. It is not dependent on somebody living in a rural circumstance or somebody dependent on somebody living in an urban circumstance.
So we cannot wait for the practise of bhakti to ourselves practise and to propagate till somehow Varnashram manifests itself. So what can be practically done in today’s world is, we as an individual and we as a community can find out how we can make our material life harmonious with our spiritual life. So his name is Devamath Maharaj, when Bhaktivanta Hospital was inaugurated and he came in the Bhaktivanta Hospital in Mumbai, which is basically a hospital, the devotees have come together, devoted doctors and they have established a hospital.
So he said that this is a working model of Varnashram in today’s world. What does that mean actually? It is not in the hospital, you have somebody a Brahmana, Kshetriya, Vishwachandra. No, but there are devotees who have come together and as devotees, they have created an environment where in a materially conducive way, in a material environment where they are associating with devotees, other devotees, they have created an atmosphere which is relatively conducive for the practise of bhakti and within that they are practising bhakti.
So how that can be done in various parts of the world, that will vary according to time and place circumstances. So I was in Australia last year when I met Devamath Maharaj. Devamath Maharaj has created a system that in India whenever marriages happen, they are basically arranged marriages.
Now either it is if you are devotees then there is a marriage board or whatever. But in America, in the western world, there is no culture of arranged marriages. In fact, nowadays there is no culture of marriage at all.
People simply live together. But anyway, for devotees, if people become devotees, most of the devotees want to get married. So how do you do that? So the parents are not devotees, there are not many elders in the community.
How do we replicate the traditional system of marriage? It cannot be done. So the principle is that there is the marriage as an arrangement should be made in such a way that it is conducive for bhakti. So what he as well as several other leaders in the West, in the West, most of the marriages happen through the boy and the girl meet, they court each other.
And then after they find they are compatible and they marry. So he said that if the boys and girls are going to court each other, they should not take any impulsive decisions. He said the boys and girls if they are courting, they should first, they have a courting period of 18 months.
Whereas in the first 9 months, the boy and the girl only meet in the presence of a chaperone. Chaperone is some other elder. In their presence they meet.
And then they can meet together alone. But the point is, why 18 months? Because initially, when we may look at someone and they may look at us and say, oh, we love each other. And it all is driven by impulses.
And the same force by which people come together. After all, when the impulses go away, when the hormones dry up, then same more people repel against you. So what happens there is that basically, he said that after, if people are meeting each other, courting each other for 10 months, 12 months in a regulated environment, then they get to see, get to see each other quite well.
And they find that we gel and that is fine. They find they do not gel, then they honourably separate. And then they move onwards.
So this is basically in the element of forming the marriage relationship, there is marriage as a relationship is formed, there is a lot of Rajoguna in it. So in the traditional culture, the Satroguna is brought in by the regulation from the elders, from the parents. But when that system is not available, then the Satroguna can be brought in by creating a time period where there is patience required.
Then what happens, the passion goes and things can be administered in a more mature way. So, different devotees based on different situations, they can create various ways in which the material life can be harmonised for the spiritual growth. So, for example, some devotees may come together and form a teaching institute.
Some devotees may come together and form, what is that, man over sandwich. So, from the cultural point of view, the name man over sandwich, nobody will think of this as Vahana Ashram. But if the intention is to help devotees orient their material life in a way that is harmonious with their spiritual growth, then that is a practical application of Vahana Ashram.
So this is how to apply Vahana Ashram that will require a lot of improvisation. Improvisation means we have to find out according to the circumstances what is most practical. So, it is not again about turning back the clock, but it is turning over the compass.
Now devotees and their guides, they both maturely and intelligently discern how can I practise bhakti in today’s environment in the way that is having least conflict, least adjustment, anyway going to be conflict. See Vahana Ashram’s expertise, everyone has problems in life. Vahana Ashram’s expertise is to allocate to people the kind of problems they like to face.
That means a brahmana likes to study. So, if you tell a brahmana, you know, there is some verse which says this, can you find this verse? Brahmana will get excited. Yes, I will search this verse.
There is a Vaishya, Vaishya, find this verse. Why do you need the verse? Just give the class without the verse. Now some Vaishya likes to work, likes to earn money.
And then the Vaishya says, okay, we want to build a big temple. And we want to raise this much funds. Very good, I will go and do it.
Now, if a brahmana, you tell him, no, we want to raise funds to build a big temple. He says, after building a big temple, you want to study Shastra. So, essentially, the principle of Vahana Ashram is what? Everybody has to face challenges.
Everybody has to deal with problems. But if people are told to deal with problems that they are equipped to deal with, then they can grow, they can contribute constructively. And that is how they themselves gain satisfaction at the material level, that I am doing something constructive and society also benefited by the talents.
So, the essence of Vahana Ashram is to engage people, people’s material nature in a way that is satisfactory for themselves and contributive for society. So, that is not necessary to divide society into the four Vahanas. But what is important is to engage people in a way by which they are individually satisfied and they are socially contributing.
How that is to be done, that will vary according to time, place and circumstance. Okay, we stop. Yes, please.
Yeah. Only in relation to what you said right now, coming back on the lockdown, so I met a lady who is working part of this schoolwork kind of thing. And her thoughts were like, as a British historian, he also said that the world is going to have a Indian India.
So, her thoughts are like, see, America and all these countries have to be based on origin and all these things are going to fall apart sooner or later. So, they will have to have some system. And it’s our responsibility now to come back to our original systems which were there in Vedic culture, so that then everything will fall apart.
Buildings will shatter and they will take care of these things and then we will be able to go back. Something like that. So, how do you like that? Some people say that the current social economy model of the world is unsustainable because it is based on oil.
And when it falls apart, people will look for an alternative. And if we have developed an alternative based on our traditional way of living, then people will embrace that alternative. So, how do we understand this? Yes, there are two different things being discussed about it.
One is that as a matter of spiritual practise, we have to practise in whatever situation we are in. That means, most devotees in today’s world are living in cities. And irrespective of whether the current model is sustainable or not, most devotees are not going to leave cities and go to villages.
Now, see, it’s just the way we are. And for, see, living in villages will be very simple. But for those who live in cities, a simple life is not so simple.
Simplicity can actually become a very big austerity. There is no flowing water, there is no electricity, there is no internet. So, it will seem very difficult for people to live.
That’s why, we don’t have to make bhakti more difficult than what it needs to be. It means, wherever people are, people can practise bhakti. Like in Mahabharata, it says, स्थानेस्तितः शुदिगतां तन्वान्मनोपित् Wherever you are situated, here Krishna comes.
So, we need to, to use a language of contemplative psychology, we need to provide bhakti to people within their comfort zones. Within their comfort zones. People are themselves, they have no impetus to come out of their comfort zone necessarily.
So, that comfort zone may mean, you know, we have, traditionally, people would go to the forest. And in the forest, they would meet some sage. And with that sage, they would learn spiritual philosophy.
But now, today, there are very little forests. And there are practically no sages in the forest. And there are practically no people who want to go to the forest, look for the sages and hear from them.
That’s why we may have a city where we have fans, or we may have air conditioning. And under there, we sit and hear Krishna Katha. So, we may, it is our responsibility to make bhakti as easy as possible.
Not compromising the essential principles. But not adding superfluous things that are not essential for the practise of bhakti. So, we should provide, we should make bhakti as easy as possible.
At the same time, there are different people with different inspirations. So, there are some people who may already have an inspiration for living simply, for exploring alternative ways of living. And those who have this, they can be inspired to go ahead in that direction.
And they may inspire some other people also, and they may create a group who is going to do that. But everybody doesn’t have to do that. And to say that anybody who is not living in a farm community, they are not serious bhaktas.
No, that is not true. Somebody can be in a city and they can be serious devotees. For that matter, Prabhupada himself never lived in a farm.
Prabhupada was born and brought up in Calcutta. He lived in Calcutta and that’s how he went all over the world. So, Prabhupada knew a lot about living in farms and he inspired people to live in farms.
But we as bhaktas don’t have to invent about establishing too many farms. So, those who are inspired, they can do that. Now, with respect to the future of the world, whether say the economy is running by, the economy may fall apart when fossil fuels run out.
If you look at history, there have always been doomsday prophets. Doomsday prophets means that, oh, the world is going to fall apart. Just do this, do this, it is not going to work.
Now, there have been religious doomsday prophets and there have been non-religious doomsday prophets. Religious doomsday prophets means, whether Christians, there are what is called a book called Millennials. Millennials means that they say that the world is going to be destroyed.
And at that time when the world is destroyed, only those who have given their life to Jesus, they will be redeemed by Jesus. There is going to be a second coming of Jesus at that time. And that time of the destruction of the world, for 25 times it has come and gone.
25 times it has come and gone. Each time, what do the Christians say? Now, not all Christians, there are also different kinds of Christians. Christians say, oh, after a time comes and goes, nothing happens.
Jesus is so merciful, he has given us one more extension. So, nowadays in the western world, those millennials, Christian millennials who talk about doomsday, they are simply a laughingstock in society. So, that is religious.
Now, as far as secular doomsday prophets are concerned, secular means non-religious. There also people have been prophesying, for example, of the white rookie. The whole idea that at the time 2000 comes, then the computer, there is a bug and all computer systems will crash and the whole economy will fall apart.
Well, that did not happen. So, there have been economists who have been prophesying the doom of things. And there have been people who have been doing that all the time, throughout history, practically speaking.
It is not just modern history. It has been when science started spreading, there was a moment in European history called romanticism. And the romanticist says that, oh, we are using so many machines, human culture has become mechanised and people will not be able to live.
So, doomsday prophets have always been there. Have things become worse? Yes, in some ways, things have become worse. In terms of say, psychological problems becoming much more, things are worse.
But in several terms, things are better. Relatively speaking, as compared to 100 years ago, there are many diseases because of which people do not die. Of course, there are other diseases because of which people die.
But the point is, we cannot, by looking at sociological trends, very clearly or authentically say that everything is going to be destroyed. See, there is fossil fuel exhaustion. But there is also a vigorous attempt for alternative forms of energy coming up.
And nuclear energy is, for example, increasingly tapped now. So, our purpose is to offer spiritual wisdom to society. You know, some devotees may expand the scope of the Krishna consciousness movement and may try to offer material alternatives.
But our primary purpose is not to offer material alternatives. Our primary purpose is to offer spiritual wisdom. So, if somebody wants to demonstrate alternative living through eco-friendly ways, modes of living in farms, that is fine.
But we have to clearly differentiate between the material and the spiritual. And every material problem has a material solution. And every material solution creates its own problems.
So, even if we demonstrate varnashtra, we demonstrate eco-friendly living. Now, eco-friendly living is not necessarily easy living. You go to devotees who have been living in farms and they have their own varieties of problems.
So, we should not get too caught in offering material solutions so much that we forget the purpose of providing spiritual wisdom. Those who are inspired to do that, that is perfectly fine. But we should not associate ISKCON and the message of Bhakti Yoga with some particular doomsday prophecy.
Every doomsday prophecy, there are enough sceptics of that. And there are models of ways of living within the current way of living itself, certain additional way and the world will go on. See what happens is, my Maya, my middle nature, Maya Devi will never make people hopelessly frustrated.
Maya makes people frustrated, but she always makes them hopefully frustrated. Oh, this didn’t work, this didn’t work, this didn’t work, this didn’t work. Hey, that will work.
And that’s why people will keep finding some way materially to move onwards. And that is their industry, their intelligence and that is also the arrangement of Maya. So, Prabhupada was asked at the time in the 1970s, at that time there was a fear that the third world war will take place.
And because there were WMDs, weapons of mass destruction, so they thought that the whole world might be destroyed. So, at that time, devotees asked Prabhupada that if the third world war takes place, and a lot of suffering, will at that time, people become, devotees, people take the bhakti more seriously. Will people become devotees when there is this global catastrophe? Prabhupada said no, catastrophe is always there.
He says, if people become devotees, it is not because of the world war, it will become devotees because of our future, our sharing of Krishna Bhakti. So, material circumstances, some material circumstances may be more conducive for bhakti, some material circumstances may be more hostile for bhakti. But bhakti itself is transcendental.
And if people come to bhakti because of materially adverse circumstances, then that is not really very sustainable bhakti. They will go away when the material circumstances become more conducive. For example, when Russia, when after Operation Perestroika in USSR, USSR became more liberalised.
Then after that, there was a huge boom in bhakti. At one time, the Newsweek magazine said that the Hare Krishna was the fastest growing religion in the religious group in Russia. And it went on for several years.
But after Russian economy became liberalised, and then western prosperity came to Russia. Then people started chasing after the dream of prosperity. And even now there is a vibrant devotee community in Russia.
But it was not as much as it was in the initial days after communism fell. And there was a lot of poverty at that time. So, the thing is, material circumstances can impel people to come towards bhakti.
But it is not necessary that they will come towards bhakti. They may go towards other things also. And we have to be careful that in trying to provide material alternatives to people.
Let me see. First, I talked about varnashara means what? There are devotees who are already practising bhakti. And for devotees, we create a material arrangement by which they can practise bhakti in a favourable way.
But here we are talking about something else. For non-devotees, we try to demonstrate a more sustainable material way of living. That is a much bigger challenge.
And if devotees are inspired to do that, that is wonderful. They can do that. But that is not the primary focus of bhakti.
Our primary focus of the Krishna Consciousness Movement and the primary focus of devotees who come to the Krishna Consciousness Movement should be the raising of consciousness towards Krishna. So, it is like you conceive a pyramid. In a pyramid, there are those who are serious practitioners of bhakti or at the top.
And around them, there are expanding concentric circles. That means, there are some devotees who may have nationalistic interests. And yes, they can also, they may have nationalistic interests.
And if that is suppressed, that is undesirable. Because that is what they feel. And protecting Indian culture, protecting Indian territorial integrity, that is also important so that we can practise bhakti.
But that is not what the whole Krishna Consciousness Movement has to do. And it is not that those devotees who do not feel interested in that, they should not be made to feel that they are lesser devotees because they are not concerned about that. So, that is a bigger circle in which some devotees will be involved.
So, like that, with Krishna, with a favourable attitude towards Krishna, we can have concentric circles of bigger and bigger radii. So, the attempt to demonstrate a sustainable alternative way of living, that is another circle outside the circle of bhakti. So, our focus is the circle of bhakti.
And those devotees who are inspired, they can do that. And they can network with others who are doing that. And that way, they can also help those people who are in sattva hona, gain appreciation for bhakti.
So, it is basically like, there are people with different interest groups. And devotees can penetrate in different interest groups and attract people towards Krishna. So, there are social workers, there will be some devotees.
So, social workers, if they come to a temple, then if in the temple, what is this doing practically? But if there is a devotee who is a social worker. And the social workers interact with the devotee social worker. They basically know, I am doing social work.
They are also doing social work. And they are also having spirituality. They are inspired to practise spirituality.
So, like that, devotees need to penetrate into different interest groups and present spirituality within those interest groups. But those are, we could say, they are like special operation forces. That is not what all devotees need to do.
Does that answer your question? Thank you very much.