QA session in Melbourne 2019

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
So today, we are having a question and answer session, and if any of you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
And we will try to answer as many questions as we can. So I’ll start with one question which was asked after yesterday’s Bhagavad Gita class, which I didn’t get time to answer. So basically, I said in the first session that devotion is about dedication.
That if we just have that dedication to serve, we can’t just have to be emotional, that’s why Krishna says, be equipoised, and focus on serving. Then go up and down, life’s ups and downs. But then, I also, I’ll explain, I said that, actually, that if you just have the desire to serve Krishna, even if you’re not able to do it, even if our traditions overpower us, still, Krishna considers us well situated.
So then, is devotion about our dedication to practical service, or is devotion about our internal, internal bhava, internal consciousness. So actually, it is not this or this, it is this and this. It is both.
And, at different times, different things might be more prominent. So the idea is that, the soul is in this world, and the soul is, is obstructed by external conditions, and internal conditionings. So the world may oppose the soul in the spiritual journey, by putting various difficulties.
And, inside itself, the conditionings may oppose. Now, at one level, the conditionings may come in terms of different kinds of desires that come up, different kinds of emotions that come up. We just feel bored, we feel angry, we feel lazy, we feel greedy, we feel various kinds of desires, and these emotions keep coming to us.
And these sometimes obstruct us. So at one level, Krishna is saying, even if these divert you, still, you may, we get diverted, but immediately, as soon as possible, come back on track. So that is the mood of Apichit Sudracharam.
Even if you go wrong, come back on track. And if you have desire to come back on track, if your intention is strong, then you are well situated. Even if the intention, you can’t execute it regularly.
The other aspect is that, some people say that actually there is no need to do anything external. That is one extreme. Just keep everything in the mind.
Just worship the Lord in the mind. Why do you want to make any kind of show? The other extreme is, people think devotion simply means commotion. Just make a big show.
And exhibit just coming from the temple and have a lot of bhav. And that is what is devotion. So one is keeping all the emotions inside.
The other is just being emotional. And reducing devotion only to emotion. But the balance understanding is, that ultimately devotion is about serving Krishna.
So if the emotion assists us in the service of Krishna, we accept that. But if the emotion doesn’t assist us, then we put aside the emotion and we still serve Krishna. So sadhana bhakti is essentially about acting our way to feelings.
There are two broad ways in which we may work. One is we act our way to feelings. And other is we feel our way to actions.
So feel our way to actions means, we feel like doing something, and then we do it. So feeling becomes our way to action. We feel, I want to go to the temple, I want to take darshan.
And that’s why feel our way to action. And sometimes it is we act our way to feelings. That means we don’t feel like going to the temple, but still we act.
We come to the temple, and then we participate in the kirtan, we see the deities, we sing the holy names, we see the devotees, and slowly then some devotional emotion starts coming in. So that means, if one is simply at the emotional level, then what will happen is, when the emotions feel good, they will do a lot. And when the emotions don’t feel, they may not do anything at all.
So essentially, bhakti is about the intention being strong, even if the conditions or conditionings oppose. That means sometimes the emotions also oppose us, sometimes the world may also oppose us. But if our intention is strong, then we will persevere in our devotion.
And the excessive emotionality, ups and downs, that is also unfavourable. Because if we are too emotionally going up and down, when we are up, we will act as if we are pure devotees. And when we are down, we will act as if we are pure materialists, not having any devotion at all.
So, the steadiness comes by the steadiness of intention. So, any other questions? Yes, please. What makes you feel bhakti is complicated? Can you give an example of what you mean? Okay.
So, bhakti seems to become more complicated as we go more and more into the details. Yes. At one level, it’s normal in every subject.
If you see, if a child is taught alphabet, you simply learn A, B, C, D, E, B. Learn some small words, but as they go deeper, there are so many bigger words also. And there are sentences you make with the word, and there are long sentences. So, any subject, at one level, when we go deeper into it, we see that there is depth to it, there is complexity to it.
So, similarly, with respect to bhakti also, there is, as we go deeper, there is some amount of complexity that comes up. But at the same time, the important thing is not to get too caught or worried about the rules. The purpose of all the rules is to help us remember Krishna.
And, if following some rule puts us in so much anxiety, so much agitation, that it distracts us from the remembrance of Krishna, then we don’t have to go that hard on that particular rule. So, ultimately, every one of us will practise bhakti individually. There are certain basic standards expected.
But ultimately, bhakti is an individual process. It’s an individual relationship between us and Krishna. It is guided and mediated by the spiritual master, the representatives.
At the same time, Prabhupada says in the 18th chapter, experience is direct and personal. Ultimately, we will experience Krishna. So, we have to practise bhakti in a way that works for us.
And that means that we can, we don’t have to openly reject any rules or again go on a campaign against any rules. If we find any particular rule difficult, then we recognise, okay, this is not particularly working for me. Let me do other things and let me move on towards Krishna.
So, we could say each rule is like one channel for our consciousness to move towards Krishna. So, there is a rule and there is a purpose of the rule. The purpose is remembrance of Krishna.
The second is water flowing. The channels are pathways for the water to flow. But ultimately, the water is meant to flow towards the ocean.
Similarly, Krishna is the ocean and our consciousness has streams, channels. The water is meant to flow towards Krishna. So, sometimes one particular channel may get blocked for a particular devotee.
And for some other devotee, it may be some other channel. So, if that channel is blocked and the water does not pass through, then one doesn’t have to obsess on that. Just make sure the water keeps flowing through the other channel.
And we keep growing in our bhakti. And some devotees who have a particular interest in a particular service, they may actually love all the rules because they want to get everything right. But somebody else who does not have that much interest, the rules may feel like a burden.
So, we have to see what service we can do constructively for Krishna, what service can give us steadiness and gradual taste. And we keep doing that. So, if some service seems very cumbersome, then we can respect that service and do it as it is practical for us.
But we don’t restrict the flow of our consciousness towards Krishna to only one channel. If that channel is blocked, so we keep the consciousness flowing to other channels. Does this answer your question? It says that… So, what is the question exactly? The question is like even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature for everyone follows the nature because there are principles to regulate attachment in the world and maintaining the certain attitude because there is coming from… So, how to overcome this attachment and aversion by higher taste? So, how is the question related to previous words? Because here in the previous… Okay, I get your question.
You are saying that at one level Krishna says repression will not accomplish anything. But other next words he is saying you have to restrain. So, if repression can’t accomplish, can’t serve anything, then how can we restrain? Is the question? So, firstly Krishna is talking about two different things in those two verses.
If you see the verse after this Chirayan swadharma vimana swadharma samasthitata So, there Krishna is essentially here talking about the Varanas, the Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaisheshwara. So, he is telling Arjun see what can repression accomplish? There was a Indian so called spiritual teacher whose whole philosophy you could call it philosophy that was that actually just enjoy your senses. And the more you enjoy your senses, the more you will grow spiritually.
And the idea was sambhog se samadhi. And he said the essence of the Bhagavad Gita is this one fourth of a verse nigraha kim karesh that was for him the essence of the Bhagavad Gita. What can repression accomplish? But, actually speaking just a few verses later Krishna is talking the whole section is about lust and Krishna is talking about you have to restrain.
So, Krishna is not saying what can repression accomplish means he is saying that you are on the war field your nature is of Kshatriya you are meant to fight. But, now if you think you will tolerate, you will forgive that is a Brahmana’s activity. You cannot do that.
You will not be able to sustain that. And, therefore, you have to act according to your nature. If you don’t act now aggressively you will take on a Brahmana’s role and later on you will act aggressively.
So, nigraha kim karesh that you cannot suppress your Kshatriya nature. So, he is talking about nature essentially. Now, when Krishna says there are principles for regulating attachment what he is talking about is there is a Brahman dharma, there is Kshatriya dharma, there is Vaishya dharma, there is Shudra dharma.
So, each of them has their own set of rules and set of guidelines by which they regulate and channel their nature. So, Brahman is told to practise ahimsa. Shamo damas tapasya, Shantir arja vivevacha Shanti, tolerate, be peaceful, forgive.
But, this is 18.42 and the next was 18.43 immediately Krishna says that when he is describing qualities of Kshatriya, that when a Kshatriya has to fight the Kshatriya will not flinch so, why is that? Of course, Kshatriya does not fight indiscriminately but the point is that each person has guidelines to act according to their nature. So, we should follow those guidelines that’s what Krishna is saying and by following those guidelines you can grow and generally if you see this is related to the answer to your question also we see that in the Bhagavatam when Dhruv Maharaj is very upset with Dhruv so, at that time he goes to the forest and Narada tells him that Dhruva actually you are such a small child don’t take such insult if you are a small child small things happen don’t take insult so seriously and if you think you are adult already then recognise that in this world honour and dishonour keeps coming so, just be equipoised and just keep having ups and downs don’t take it so seriously if you are adult then also don’t take it seriously but Dhruva replies at that time that actually what you are saying is true but I can’t apply it to you this is not the level I can practise the words have pierced my heart so terribly that I can’t tolerate this pain therefore please give me a means to rectify the dishonour that I have suffered sometimes we have this understanding that the mode of interaction with the spiritual master or spiritual guide is simply of submission and yes submission is required no doubt but along with submission there is also negotiation negotiation means that if this I don’t think this is practical then we tell him why it is not practical what is the mutually acceptable way of working and that’s what Krishna is telling nigraha kim karishasi so what is the mutual what is the acceptable way of working for Kshatriya is not the same as for a Brahmana so you work according to your nature and sometimes this negotiation we may have to do within ourselves also I want to be here but right now I can’t be here just because I can’t be here doesn’t mean I have to be here I can be somewhere in between so that way when we learn to find out the level at which we can practise bhakti sustainably and by the sustainable practise we become purified and then we can rise to a higher level afterwards yes Prabhu if you see this it says in the story that he took the lord’s name but when you see this namapra if you make a mistake or if you do it’s contradicting one says just by taking one final name doesn’t matter because the intention is called that’s true but when you intentionally chant there is a namapra so it’s contradicting ok so if there is a praj chanting the holy names Ajamil chanted once how was he so much benefited now there are different contexts for different statements and in certain context when a particular statement is made that statement is best understood in that context the story of Ajamil has a particular intent that intent is to stress the magnitude of the mercy of the lord coming through his holy name that even a person who is so degraded can get saved by the chanting of the holy names and when scripture wants to draw some principle illustrates some principle it often does it through extremes like this is the 6th canto the previous Ajamil story in the 5th canto there is a story of Jal Bharat or Bharat Maharaj now a person who is so elevated is renounced a kingdom and then goes into a forest and gets attached to a deer see how absurd, how is it possible but whether it is a positive thing or a negative thing the negative thing is even a small attachment can divert us so much that is illustrated in a very extreme way and extreme is also illustrated in a very extreme way so now the extreme by the word extreme I mean extraordinary not extreme in the sense of extremist just exceptional so the extraordinary or the exceptional is not the standard it is meant to inspire us to follow the standard process with greater caution and greater attention so there is such a great danger of attachment and diversion that we don’t get attached to other things similarly if you look at the Bhagavatam itself what is the conclusion over there the conclusion of the Ajamil section is not that all of you also do whatever you want be sensual and at the end of your life when you are about to die take a gun put it on your forehead and shoot the gun now that is not the conclusion of the Bhagavatam over there the Bhagavatam’s conclusion is that if Ajamil chanted once even unintentionally and was delivered and if we chant regularly and intentionally would we be delivered so extraordinary examples of mercy are not the standard they indicate the magnitude of the compassion of the Lord and by seeing those extraordinary examples of mercy we can feel inspired to follow more diligently the standard process so Ajamil is not the standard for everyone Ajamil is the extraordinary example of mercy now the standard process of Sadhana Bhakti is given in the Puranas and Bhaktivinoda Thakur has elaborated it and then the offences are there so now when there are offences in chanting that doesn’t mean the chanting is not beneficial even then it is beneficial but it is not fully beneficial the idea is it is not just a matter of uttering some mantras it is a matter of developing a personal connection with the Lord so if we have a personal connection naturally we will chant the name also attentively if we are calling someone then we will call them and pay attention to them so the idea is we don’t have to be very calculative or very apprehensive calculative means like Ajamil chanted once he got so much, if I chant once I am not getting that much Bhakti is not mathematical Bhakti is interpersonal and we want to connect our heart with Krishna’s heart so we don’t have to be calculative but at the same time we don’t have to be apprehensive, fearful if I commit an offence what will happen if I commit an offence what will happen just try your best to serve Krishna and it is a personal relationship the Aparajas they are not meant to create fear within us the Aparajas are primarily meant to help us understand that the holy name is not ordinary the holy name is sacred and let us try to approach it as a sacred sound and chant attentively so then is it that somebody who is chanting Navabhasa, Navaparaja will not get purified many of us who are chanting have experienced purification at least to some extent then however is it that all of us are chanting Chudanam or Navabhasa we may or may not be so technical systems of classification are primarily meant to help us act as a sure map along the way so there is no need to become apprehensive just keep chanting as well as you can and the process of Bhakti will apply and you will become purified ok yes I wanted to ask in childhood the mother will be sure that the mother is not available so similarly why does Krishna make lust easily available to us when he knows that it is not good for us it is merciful because as I was giving the example I got it the mother will not make those things available for you and the second part of the question is would it be easier if we remember our past life easily because we have to forget as soon as we forget about our past life because if we know what all mistakes we faced in our past life we were just like your mother it becomes easier that we have to focus on Krishna consciousness we will remember everything from the mother but as soon as we come out we forget everything so why does that happen so first question is that if mother would not allow a child to eat would not keep mud nearby also so why is it that Krishna keeps lust so easily and widely accessible for us well it is not that Krishna is doing it it is the way the material world is constituted there are two ways of looking at the material world one is that we could say everything is happening under Krishna’s arrangement but the other is that the material world is having its own governing principles say for example in today’s world if sensual images are there everywhere is this Krishna’s arrangement no maybe a few hundred years ago few decades ago it was not like that so we can’t ascribe human doings as God’s arrangement so the excessive sensuality that is there in the world today that was not there even a few decades ago as in many ways it is unprecedented in human history especially with devices giving us access everywhere it is unprecedented definitely having said that it is true still that overall sensuality is much more easily accessible than spirituality no doubt about it and that has always been the case and the reason for that is that this world is a place primarily to facilitate the fulfilment of the desires of the souls so in the Vishnu Sahasranam one of the name is one of the name of Vishnu is Kama Kamada he is the giver of desire Baldev Devji translates those names in different ways he says he is the giver of desire and he is the fulfiller of desire now we say why should the Lord give us desire he is the giver of desire means that actually speaking every desire which pops up inside us and then a desirable object that is there outside ultimately we choose that desire so life is like a multiple choice exam and in the multiple choice exam the knowledge of the correct answer is given by the teacher in the normal classroom and the exam with all the wrong options are also given by the teacher but it is the student who has to assimilate during the studies and then apply during the exam and pick the right option and in any multiple choice exam the number of wrong options will always be more than the number of right options so similarly in the world sensuality will be much more widespread than spirituality and as I said another reason for that is because the world reflects the kind of desires people have say now I am saying as compared to 3-4 decades ago the amount of explicit sensuality in the world today is much more why is that that is because of materialism people were always sensual you could say but so brazenly or explicitly sensual that is happening in the same times so because in general in the world people are more materialistic so material desires and the pathways to fulfil those material desires are more easily available and it is not that all lust is bad Krishna also says so if we understand that it is also an arrangement for procreation then we see that that is also not necessarily a bad thing it is an arrangement through which procreation happens and it is only when we artificially separate the pleasure from the procreation and seek only the pleasure that is when we go against nature so Krishna’s purpose is see there is a love that guards and there is a love that guides both are loves and the love that guards has to end at some time if parents are very overprotective of their children and then eventually the parents are not going to be there all the time for every small problem the child runs to the mother say the child is playing with someone and another child pushes the child and child starts crying and runs to the mother then the mother may intervene but how long can the mother keep intervening and the father keep intervening in the child grows up the child has to stand up for oneself so there is a love that guards there is a time definitely when we have to guard but then there is also the love that guides you don’t guard you face life I will guide you how to face life so for most of us in the material world Krishna’s love is the love that guides the material world is a place where there are temptations and to some extent the temptations can be lesser but ultimately it is the love that guides so if we regularly hear scripture regularly connect with Krishna then that message of Krishna will permeate into our consciousness and it will arise within us at the right time so that we will be guided properly now the second question was that won’t it help us if we remember our past lives I will answer it in three broad ways first is that not necessarily I wrote a book on reincarnation where on demystifying reincarnation I have studied several hundred cases of children who remember their past lives and then shortlisted about 25 of them in my book after I published the book I decided to do some further research to find out how many of these children who remembered their past lives actually became more spiritual because of that remembrance and not even one not even one in fact there was a case of a person who was named William Barnes and he was some James Black or someone he was a person who had designed the Titanic and he had sunk along with the Titanic and William Barnes says I am the reincarnation of this Jones or whatever and now he gave a very reasonable explanation of how the Titanic sank he said that before we Titanic went on its first voyage I was testing and I used a hammer to hit the hull and at some points the hammer it started resonating and he said I told our financer that actually we will have to thicken the hull because if any of the points where resonance is happening the iceberg collides it won’t be one hole it will break at multiple places but the financer he said that no no we have already planned everything we can’t spend any more money we can’t delay anything so he brushed aside my objections and then the ship went and then the ship sank and then that financer blamed him so this William Barnes he actually explained that the Titanic sank and then some scientist did some experiment it’s a reasonable explanation because the way the the debris, the remains of the Titanic were there so I am not going to go into the merits of the case but this William Barnes he says my mission in life is to clear the good name of Jones his name was impugned by the financer so he is not thinking oh I died and I was born again that was his spiritual life no he is thinking I have to clear the name of this person so basically what happens is that spiritual a spiritual drive depends primarily on intention not on recollection even these people who remember their previous lives that doesn’t necessarily impel them to practise spirituality having said that let’s look at that his intention was that the child in the womb remembers the previous lives and prays to the lord now at that time the child also prays my lord please don’t let me come out of this because outside the world is illusion and I don’t want to get into this world entangled so please let me stay here and let me remember you and stay devoted to you but then why does he come out the point is that that spiritual duress devotion under the compulsion of the situation it is still devotion but it is not mature devotion it is it is like if I have nothing to do nothing else works and there is a time when I turn towards Krishna good at least then you turn towards Krishna but then what is happening Krishna is your last alternative but devotion is your first alternative so if we practise bhakti simply because of the fear of the consequences of our misdeeds that is devotion at the level of fear you know there are four levels of devotion fear, desire, duty and love so so that is also good but that is nowhere near pure devotion so certainly we need to have some fear of the consequences of our own actions but fear of that fear driven devotion may protect us from doing wrong but it won’t really connect our heart very deeply with Krishna and it is like if your child always obeys you but the obedience is simply because if I don’t obey my parents will cut off my pocket money well ok at least they are obeying but how much of a personal bond is going to be formed by that it is only by fear there has to be more of appreciation reciprocation then that is positive so that is the second point that even if we could remember our past life misdeed and the consequences of the misdeeds and because of that we chose ok I don’t want to do this I want to do this that is simply driven out of fear of the consequences of bad deeds it is devotion but it is not a very high level of devotion it is certainly not pure devotion and the third point will be that when we practise bhakti at that time in certain exceptional situations some souls may get remembrance of their past lives like Jai Sajjad Bharat remembered that I had made a mistake now these extraordinary situations are primarily given to highlight a particular point see the point in Jai Sajjad Bharat story is that how ultra-cautious he had become but now is it really described when Jai Sajjad Bharat was constantly remembering and berating himself why did I do that, why did I do that, why did I do that no Jai Sajjad Bharat was like when he was instructing Rahu Gana focus on instructing Rahu Gana so he was not really living in a perpetual backlash of a previous life why did I do that, why did I do that so sometimes memory may be given in exceptional situations for particular purposes usually the children who remember their past lives it is most often because they die suddenly and the soul does not process the event of death it is like we leave India and come to Australia and say that some souls they die in some murder or some violent accident there is like a soul lag the soul is still in the previous body for some time and usually these memories they do not stay for life about 7, 8, 9, 10 maybe they go and meet their person in the previous lives and the memory subsides even if they remember the memory it is more like a cognitive memory it is not an emotional memory so generally the normal system is that every new life is an opportunity for the soul to start a new chapter so what has happened in the previous chapters does matter but we still have the opportunity to make a fresh picnic that is why we are not given remembrances of the past lives it is actually it would become an unbearable cognitive overload if you start remembering everything that we have done in the past say if you meet say if you meet a family member or a friend and at that moment as soon as you see them if everything you have done with them starts coming in your mind you will not be able to function in that so like that if you start looking at say you are walking along and slip and fall did you slip and fall because somebody has spilled water here or you slipped and fell because in your past life and what was the karma so if you start going into that causal connection the whole principle of karma is not for post-mortem it is for prescription karma analysis we start going into post-mortem now why did this happen to me it is practically not possible but even if it is possible it will be just overwhelming the principle of karma is meant more for prescription do this don’t do this it is not for post-mortem at all any other questions yes please like what some other festivals which come will you puja or how ok good question so should if in our family certain festivals like say Mahashivratri or others are celebrated then should we celebrate them or not Bhaktivinoda Thakur discusses this in Chaitanya Shiksha Amrit and he says a devotee may be involved in three broad kinds of festivals the devotee’s heart is in the Vaishnava festivals Chitmashtami Gaur Kondi Ma Ram Navami this is where his lord is who is glorified the devotee wholeheartedly participates in that apart from that there could be other religious festivals when Bhaktivinoda Thakur was there at that time Kali Puja and all that was very big in Bangkok even now it is so he says there is other religious festivals they are non-Vaishnava religious festivals at second and third he says is there could be general general social get-togethers say in today’s context we might say in India there might be Independence Day here there might be Australia Day or whatever so he says a devotee’s primary purpose is to celebrate Vaishnava festivals and other festivals a devotee will do whatever will cause the least disruption in society so these festivals are not bad they are also at one level say religious festivals are pious even if they are not concerned with Krishna directly and other festivals they are just remembering some special event in the memory of that in that particular region or that whatever so a devotee doesn’t have to go out of the way to disturb a devotee may not go out of the way to celebrate these but a devotee doesn’t have to go out of the way to disturb also so if if people in general are practising it are doing it and not doing it will unnecessarily create agitation in people’s minds will create hostility towards the devotee will make the will make people start perceiving devotion negatively then those are the considerations primarily then if it is required one can participate and instead it’s in the Bhagavatam that Pruthu Maharaj when he was performing yajnas at that time there were also yajnas being offered to the devatas and he was in the mood although the externally the mantras of the devatas were being chanted internally he was in the mood that Devo Narayana and Angaja that they are all parts of Vishnu and he was offering prayers to the devatas in the mood that you are all the devotees the assistants of Vishnu so devotee can have that internal consciousness and we can appreciate every situation in a way that it is favourable to our devotion so our movement is quite influential in England so we are the Bhaktavan manner is like the leader of the whole Hindu community there so every year because of the multicultural environment they celebrate in the house of commons various religious festivals also so when they celebrate Diwali so our temple president from there he was invited to the Diwali programme to celebrate Diwali and he was the leader and some other Hindu groups were also there so he had to speak over there now he has spoken very briefly because we don’t have much time at that time the prime minister of Britain was also there so then he spoke basically that Diwali is a festival of gratitude that the residents of Ayodhya were happy that Ram came back and he shifted from the Ramayana to the focus on gratitude and because it’s a political setting so he said what can we be grateful for so he said we can be grateful for life we can be grateful for the opportunity to practise our faith and we can be grateful to the country that has given us the freedom to practise our faith now when he spoke that all the politicians appreciated that because their interest is in the country their interest is not in the religion so then you have to speak accordingly so we don’t give up our principles but we present our principles in a way that is conducive to the particular occasion so we don’t have to go out of the way to celebrate we don’t have to go out of the way to avoid celebrating we try to krishnaize it as much as possible Shiva is the greatest Vaishnava why is Mahashivratri not a part of Vaishnava festivals well Hari Bhaktivedas does say that we should celebrate Mahashivratri also now there is the acharyas prescribe different practises of scripture based on what is most beneficial for the people so in today’s world often there is confusion in people’s mind about who is supreme and when we worship Shiva we might create within or perpetuate within people the misconception that okay Shiva is supreme so we might be worshipping Shiva in the mood of a devotee but that’s not what people will pursue so that’s why there has to be a little caution because when we say when we do puja of Prabhupada we are very clear philosophically Prabhupada is not Krishna Prabhupada is a representative of Krishna but because the devatas are also themselves objects of worship so sometimes they may be seen as alternatives to Krishna so to avoid the confusion devotees do not publicly worship the devatas that doesn’t mean we publicly disrespect them but just that we don’t in our temples have elaborate worship of the devatas if we chance to go to a place where devatas are there we will offer our respects to them answer your question? Thank you Yes mam So the Japa has been critical of changing in giving the Vedic it actually says complicated things because when we see when we speak to the Prabhupada and his texts then we also need to be partially as a solution for the Vedic ideas ok ok good question so why did Vyasdev even give the Vedic atonements when actually they are not practical and he eventually had to give bhakti Prabhupada gives bhakti everywhere directly there is a recommended way but there is also in the broad Vedic context freedom of choice which means this is the way I recommend but if you do not want to take this that does not mean you are doomed the broad Vedic tradition offers us what you could say as user friendly spirituality so user friendly means that whatever you want to practise at that level you can fit in there are certain religions which often offer spirituality this is the way if you are not following this way you are going to go to hell either my way or the highway but the Vedic way is not like that broad Vedic tradition is you can’t follow this and follow this you can’t follow this and follow this so Krishna himself has instituted the tradition through the scripture Krishna has instituted the system of the worship of devatas so for those who can’t worship him Krishna does not say you have to go to hell you worship someone else stay within the house of the Vedas so the The house of the Vedas has the innermost chamber where there is a treasury of bhakti. But for those who are not ready for it, those who are not interested in it, the house of Vedas is still very big.
And people can come in different chambers of that house and find something interesting. And that’s how they get connected. And they stay at least within the house of the Vedas.
So in fact that’s what, wherever we want to do outreach in a broader setting, then what happens is that if we have multiple activities, temple is one place where you have worship, but if there are other things over there, if there is yoga, there is schools, there is free food, there is some cultural activities, Bharatanatyam or whatever, then people may not come for the temple to the worship, but they will come for so many other things. But they are coming in the temple premises, they are coming in contact with devotees. So Prabhupada’s stress, Prabhupada had very little time with us, after he started the Krishna consciousness movement, he was there just for 10-11 years.
So Prabhupada’s purpose, stress is bhakti everywhere. But at the same time, Prabhupada does give us the scripture. And the scripture, everything is, all the other parts also are given.
So the idea is that Vyasadeva’s strategy is at one level, you cast the net broad. At another level, you pull the net inwards. So when you are casting the net, try to get as many souls within the Vedic fold as possible.
But when you have to take them out, it is the bhakti which will actually take them out of the material world and towards Krishna. So both approaches are valid. So rather than seeing that this or this, this and this, it’s like a pyramid.
On the pyramid, at the top, you could say bhakti. But along the side of the pyramid, there are different people following different paths. And they are also rising on the path of consciousness.
It’s better to be a pious materialist than to be an impious materialist. So the Vedic atonements are basically for people who are not yet ready for bhakti. But they don’t want to be materialistic.
At least they have that much consciousness. And I don’t want to, that this is wrong. I want to atone for it.
At one level, surrender to Krishna is very easy. At another level, it’s very difficult. It’s easy because the practise of the path is easy in one sense.
Not very difficult austerities. But it’s difficult because at one level, we have to give up our ego and independence. We have to surrender to Krishna, which is difficult for some people.
Yes, sir. How can we ensure that our children, when they go into teenage, they still stay connected with Krishna? There was an American author who said, when I was 15, my father was a fool. Now I’m 25 and I’m amazed how much the old guy has learned in 10 years.
So the teenage is the time when the children are discovering their identity. Before the teenage, they’re identified primarily as this person’s son or this person’s daughter. Their identity is very much locked to their parents’ identity.
When they go into adults, at that time, they will have their career, they will have their job, they’ll have a position. So they’ll have their own identity. But in the teenage, they are too old to be satisfied with their parents’ identity, connected to the parent.
And they’re too young to have found their own identity. So it’s a very turbulent phase. And at that time, it is even if somebody is not necessarily practising spirituality or religion, still the turbulence comes up.
So what we can do, broadly speaking, is that one soul can influence another soul only in three ways. As I said, in the childhood, there is, I talk about love that guards and the love that guides. So in the childhood, the love that guards, protect our children, keep them in a protected environment.
But as they grow up, we can’t keep them in a protected environment all the time. So we can guide them in broadly three ways. One soul can influence other soul only in three ways.
Provide knowledge, provide inspiration and provide facility. You could put this as three E’s, enlightenment, encouragement and engagement. Enlightenment means if you do this, this will happen.
If you do this, this will happen. Don’t just give rules. This is a lecture of Sri Prabhupada where he’s talking to devotees and he says, if this devotee is going to go to colleges and present Krishna consciousness.
Prabhupada said the worst thing that you can do in college programmes is present Krishna consciousness as a set of rules. He said that the worst in youth are never interested in rules. He said that I was at an interfaith conference and there was a Christian who was joking.
He said we did a survey among youth, random youth. What is their conception of a priest? So he says a priest is someone who is constantly worried that someone somewhere is having some fun. So their conception is that priests are meant to spoil all our fun.
So we present too many rules. Do this, don’t this, do this, do this, don’t this. It just becomes too restrictive and repressive for them.
There’s a big difference between most of us who came to Krishna consciousness by our choice in our adulthood and our children who are more or less born in Krishna consciousness or grow up in Krishna consciousness. For most of us, we might have had some culture before, but the Krishna conscious principles and practises are much stricter than the broad pious culture. So for us, first came the philosophy.
Oh, I’m not the body, I’m the soul. And when the philosophy was understood, then after that, all the rules and regulations started making sense. And then we chose to follow them.
But for what happens for our children is first the rules and regulations come. Do this, don’t do this. And somehow we have our schools where we tell some Krishna stories and we memorise some shlokas.
But I have seen that I was in America and there’s a devotee. The father is a very good preacher. The mother is like a counsellor for the congregation.
And the son was talking with me and the son said that, is there any evidence that God exists? Not that he doubted, but he said, I’ve never seen any evidence, any convincing evidence. And then he was a sceptic. So we had some discussions.
He said the standard design argument, it doesn’t make sense to me. So we had some discussions. The point was that he had never had any forum where he could have the intellectual pathway to Krishna consciousness.
How it intellectually fits in place, how it makes sense. That’s why enlightenment. We have to not just give rules, but tell.
Why are we doing this? And what is the harm of not? Why should we not do this? Why should we do this? So that kind of rational spirituality, not just cultural spirituality, that is very important to present at the right time. So and the teenage is not necessarily the right time, but it is the beginning of the right time. So first is enlightenment.
Give knowledge of what it’s like. This is the path which will take you here. This is the path will take you here.
And the second is engagement. Engagement means that kids like to hang out with kids of their own age. And they need to be presented bhakti or presented engagements in bhakti in a way that that feels comfortable for them.
If you ask them to come to the temple and attend classes for adults, it’s not going to work. So many, most, almost all kids like kirtans, like to come for kirtans and participate in kirtans. And there’s one temple in America had gone and they said that they’re trying to get their kids to come.
Teenage and little older than teenage kids. Most of them are not ready to come. And then they decided that we want to make our temple green.
And they called the kids and said, can you become in charge of making the temple green? So then the kids started coming to the Sunday programme, not to attend a Sunday class, but to make sure that everything is green. So many times, especially this generation, there is a desire to be some kind of an activist, to do something tangible, not just worship. So engagement means we have to find out creatively how best we can connect what they are doing with Krishna.
How can we engage them in Krishna’s service? That has to be individually seen according to each person’s situation. Prabhupada gives a very innovative explanation of this. Somehow or the other fix the mind on Krishna.
Prabhupada says that this means it is the responsibility of the spiritual master to find ways and means by which the disciples can fix the mind on Krishna. And as Prabhupada says, this whole Krishna consciousness movement is practically invented by me. At one time he said that I have not changed one word, I have just given what my spiritual master has given.
But Prabhupada here says that the whole idea of rathyatra, dancing on the streets in Western countries. This is what Prabhupada thought about. That’s the way the devotees could fix their mind on Krishna.
So we have to sometimes stretch our brain a little bit to find out ways and means by which we can, they can be engaged in a forum that they feel comfortable. And third is encouragement. Encouragement means that often, we tend to catch our children doing wrong instead of catching them doing right.
Even why are you not doing this? Why are you not doing this? Why are you not doing this? And even if they do right. So I was in Dubai and the devotee and the children were talking with me. So this devotee’s daughter was saying that my parents are never satisfied with me.
So I said what happened? He said that I started chanting four rounds. I told my mother I chanted four rounds. Yes.
So when are you starting sixteen now? So instead of appreciating me chanting four, he said when are you starting sixteen? I felt so discouraged by that. So at whatever level they are practising, appreciate that. It’s very difficult.
And many devotees have seen that if the parents stay, maintain a nice relationship, even if the children don’t practise bhakti, once they go through adolescence, once they start settling down in life, then they start realising the value of bhakti. So even if they go away temporarily, you don’t get too worried about it. They will go, but they will come back.
They have got the bhakti impressions. Just don’t make it like an ego issue or a personal prestige issue. Oh, my child, how can my child not be a devotee? I am a devotee.
My child should be a devotee. Don’t see it as a personal failure. It is just that every soul has his own journey, his or her own journey to go through and they will come at their place.
So our children should never feel that our love for them is conditional to their practise in bhakti. Whether they practise bhakti or not, our love for them should be there. There are love and there are expectations.
So every parent will have expectations of children. Natural, that’s natural. But the love should not be conditional to the expectation.
If you do this, that’s wonderful. But if you don’t do this, I still love you. So when they see it that way, they won’t feel pressured to practise it, but rather they will choose to practise it.
Over a period of time that will happen. How do we understand that we will never fall back? That, well, Dev Devakopalan explains this elaborately in his last verse, Anam vritti shabdad, in the Govinda Bhashya commentary on the Vedanta Sutra. There he says that actually the Lord is so eager for the soul to come back that the Lord descends from the spiritual world to the material world to take the soul back.
So why would the Lord ever let that soul again fall back from here? So Anam vritti shabdad, that’s the last declaration of the Vedanta Sutra. Anam vritti means never come back again. Shabdad, this is the declaration of scripture.
Punaravrtti no, Anam vritti, no avrtti no. So he says that this is the declaration of scripture. And this is also, we can see this from the personal nature of the Lord.
As the Lord is so eager for the soul to come back. So why would the Lord let that soul fall back again? And as far as we ourselves are concerned, we, if we have to go back to the spiritual world, it is that we resist the temptation of the material world, reject the temptation of the material world, that’s only, only then we’ll go back. So then if we have rejected those temptations, a lifelong or many lives, depending on how long we are in sadhana, when we were in the world of temptation, we rejected the temptations.
Why would we ever get tempted like that when we are beyond the world of temptation? So both from the perspective of our experience and our realisation, our practise, from the perspective of declaration of scripture, and from the perspective of the personal nature of the Lord’s mercy, we can be reasonably confident that what the Lord says, once we attain his abode, we won’t fall back. Free will always applies, but the misuse of the free will is of an extremely low probability. It’s not impossible, but it is so low as to be impossible.
It’s like in Hindi they say, doodh ka jala, chhaaj bhi phukke peetha hai. If somebody has drunk some hot water, once burnt, twice shy, as they say. He has taken some hot milk and burnt the tongue.
The next time when you get the buttermilk, which looks like milk, they will cool it and drink it. So after we have the experience of the struggles in the material world, the free will is never taken away, but the chance of misuse of the free will is disappearingly low. Now the question is, when the horse is thirsty or not? Good question.
So if a horse is not thirsty, taking it to the water is also not helpful. So if people are not spiritually seeking, then what is the point of trying to share Krishna Bhakti? Here I would say that there are three broad categories. One is people who are deeply looking for spirituality.
Say there are some senior Prabhupada disciples who actually left their homes in search for God. They travelled across the world. So they were very seriously seeking God.
Now most of us, at least I didn’t go out searching for God. Rather God’s devotees came out searching for me. So now in the second category are a large number of people who don’t think that they are searching for spirituality because they don’t know what is spirituality.
All of us have particular conceptions of our spiritualities. And based on our conception we feel this is not for me. So in today’s world, we all always, but especially in today’s world, our perceptions are formed in hundreds of different ways.
And based on how our perceptions are formed, we may just keep a longer distance from certain things even if they are not that, even if we would be interested in them otherwise. So this is the second category where people will be open to spirituality, but they themselves may not be interested because they don’t really know what is spirituality. And the third category is people who are just not interested.
So you could say the first category will be very small, second category will be reasonable, third category will be huge. So with respect to the third category, they are just not interested. All that we can do is just give them some Ajna Sukrti, give them some Prasad, give them some, maybe they can keep some sacred books at their home or whatever.
And let their spiritual journey just start with some baby steps. So such people if we push them too much, we will alienate them. We can’t push people too much.
So if they are not interested, we open the door of spirituality for them. Sometimes what happens, we open the door and if they refuse to come in, then we bang the door in their face. You are a materialist, you are a demon, you go to hell and suffer.
At the end of an interaction with a devotee, if a person doesn’t become interested in Bhakti, the person should at least feel, I met a nice person. That appreciation itself is good for them. So for most people in third category, if we just give them a positive perception of Krishna Bhakti, that’s also good enough.
For those in the second perception, Bhakti Dev Maharaj in one of his lectures said that the duty of a preacher is to find out what are the obstacles between a soul and Krishna and remove those obstacles. So it’s not just give a lecture or come to the temple. We find out if we are interacting with people, what is stopping this person from coming to Krishna.
Maybe it could be some cultural barriers. I am not comfortable with this. Or it could be some intellectual misconceptions.
It could be some practical requirements in their life or whatever. So then we find out what is stopping them and try to remove them. So most of our outreach will be in the second category.
So these three categories that I am saying also is that Prema Maitri Kruhu Vapeksha, Yaha Karoti Samadhyama Madhyamadhi Karate says, those who are envious, keep a distance from them. Those who are innocent, show mercy to them. And those who are devotees, become friendly with them.
There are some people we might meet and we just meet them and we feel, they are already so spiritually evolved. It’s just that they are continuing from their previous lives again. There will be a few like that also.
So we focus on the second category and create a, create just some Agya Sukruti in the third category. And how do we know whether somebody is in the second or third category? It is basically, we might invite them once, twice, thrice. If people just absolutely say no at all, then just leave it.
But if we give them some opportunity to open up and they say, you know, I don’t like this, then we can address that. So if they are open to having their conceptions examined, then we can help them to come to a better understanding. So if we see statements of promises of reading scripture, Phalashruti, are they devotional audacity? Not exactly devotional audacity.
Different devotees have different understandings. I have discussed with various devotees. Broadly speaking, the Phalashruti indicates the magnitude of the mercy of the Lord that is possible.
But that doesn’t necessarily mean that is the mercy that everyone will get by that. And the Lord is so merciful that by hearing this pastime once, you can get love of God. That’s wonderful.
But what if somebody doesn’t get that love of God? That doesn’t mean that that promise is not necessarily true. It just means that that particular activity might not be done in the right consciousness. That doesn’t mean that greed not in the right consciousness is not having any effect.
It’s like somebody says, you just hit one arrow at the bullseye and get the Olympic gold medal and your name will be emblazoned in gold plate in your country’s history. It’s all true. But there’s much more also is true.
To hit that one arrow in the bullseye in Olympic, one has to shoot thousands of arrows and practise before that. Similarly, and scripture tells us that if you hear this pastime, you get purified or you get love of God. And that is true.
But then we also need to have that desire for love of God. You also need to have a consciousness that is receptive to be filled with love of God. Krishna respects our free will so that he doesn’t force himself into our consciousness.
So it’s somehow if some pastime says that you hear this pastime and you get love of God and you attain the spiritual world and somebody has a pastime and they go to the spiritual world and in spiritual world they are there and they’re asking what is the cricket score? So if the consciousness is not attached to Krishna, this physical relocation to the spiritual world is not enough. And Krishna cannot, Krishna cannot forcibly impose love of God on us. So he can give us love of God if he wanted to.
So what we say that this is the, it is indicative of the magnitude of the Lord’s mercy. But whether that is the magnitude of mercy which every person will get or not, that will vary from person to person. Yes.
Okay. So how do we balance the idea of not repressing yourself and at the same time avoiding things that are unfavourable to Krishna consciousness? And especially how do we guide this towards this balanced new people? Ultimately Krishna consciousness has to be practised by each individual. And we have to help people find a level at which they can practise comfortably.
Comfortably in the sense, not that they go into the comfort zone, but comfortably in the sense of sustainable. It is. So when we talk about comfortably practising Krishna, sustainably practising Krishna bhakti, our purpose is that based on that person’s level of experience, level of realisation, we have to give them, take one step forward.
From where you are, take one step forward. So there is one of the offences to the holy name is not instruct faithless people about the glory of the holy name. One way to understand that offence could also be that, if we instruct people in things which they can’t have faith in at their level, giving that instruction itself is not healthy.
So there are many aspects of Krishna consciousness and everything has to be told at the right time. Sometimes we are not very discreet about what we present when. Say suppose some new iPhone comes up and the new iPhone promotion is there, say iPhone X or anything after iPhone X is there, whatever.
OK. So iPhone X comes up. Now imagine the promotion of the advertisement, the commercial of the iPhone X is there.
First thing they start, eighteen hundred dollars. Will any commercial start with the price? Any promotion of any material starts with the features. OK.
This speed, this lightweight, this feature, this feature, this feature, this feature. And at the end of it, somewhere down, you’ll see, OK, this is the price. Now, of course, if somebody else wants to do something, somebody wants to do something else, somebody bought a phone and they are very proud of the phone and they want to brag about how wealthy they are.
You know, this phone is eighteen hundred dollars. So that is simply to brag. So similarly, when we are presenting Krishna consciousness in any kind of outreach, first we have to tell what is the product and then tell the price.
But often we tell the price first and we are very proud. Know this. Know this.
Know this. Know this. And people say, OK, no Krishna consciousness.
So we have to start with the features. What is it? What is there for them? And when they feel the benefit of Krishna consciousness, then they will take steps forward. So broadly speaking, in the initial stages, if the success can be defined at different levels differently, in the initial stages, people just keep coming for the programmes.
That itself is a success. They come once, twice, thrice. That’s a success.
If after that they get their friends also for a programme. I mean, they like it so much that they want to share with others. If they come to the programme and want to do some, can I help in any way? They want to do some volunteer work.
That’s another type of success. If they want to follow the programme, what principles can I follow? Then they can, we can encourage them to follow in a way that doesn’t disturb their life too much. Because most of us today, our movement itself is mostly congregation based movement now.
So all the devotees are practising bhakti. They are living in the outer world. So they have to interact with and to some extent integrate with the outer world.
So what happened? Our movement started as a, almost a temple based movement. When the movement started, even those were grahasthas were also living in the temple. So it was a very sharp demarcation between those who are devotees and those who are not devotees.
But now it is various levels of integration are there, not that kind of demarcation. That’s why it’s not that people have to necessarily leave the world to come to Krishna. They will be, they will live in the world and through there they will come to Krishna.
So it’s rather than telling people that you have to reject this or reject that, is what you have, you build on that. And as far as repression, this is a broadly a big subject. But I have said that there is, sometimes we say this is material, this is spiritual, this is material.
But it’s too broad a classification. So in material, there is sattva, there is rajas, there is tamas. So we could say that there is pro-devotional, non-devotional and anti-devotional.
So the pro-devotional doesn’t have to be given up at all. That can be channelled. The non-devotional, it depends on, the anti-devotional that are there, some things depending on how much they are ready, those can be regulated or removed as much as possible.
So it has to be done individually, case by case. And always the stress has to be on connection. Just connect with Krishna.
The idea is that if we start filling our consciousness with Krishna, then other things will automatically go out. If we try to give those away, it will be difficult for them. Just always focus on trying to connect them with Krishna and they will find out for themselves what best level they can connect and how much they can disconnect from the non-devotional, anti-devotional things.
Does this answer your question? Was there one last question? So thank you very much.