RAMA NAVAMI SPECIAL: Relishing Lord Rama’s remembrance & appreciating Ramayana retellings

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This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Om Gyanatimirandasya Gyananjanishalakaya Chakshurunmala Tamyena Tasmai Shri Gurave Namaha Nama Om Vishnupadaya Krishnaprishnaya Bhutale Shreemate Bhaktivedanta Swami Itinamne Namaste Saraswati Deve Gauravani Pracharane Nirvishesha Shunyavadi Pashyatya Deshatarine Vancha Kalpatarubhyascha Krupasindhubhyavecha Patitanam Pavanebhyo Vaishnavebhyo Namo Namaha Jai Shri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nithyananda Shri Advaita Gadadhara Shri Vasadhi Gaurabhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Hare Krishna So today on the auspicious occasion of Ram Navami we will be discussing about one of the purposes of the appearance of the Lord and how that purpose is fulfilled both circumstantially and eternally. What do I mean by that? That in the fourth chapter of the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says that he descends time and time again, sambhavami yuge yuge he descends again and again for the purpose of Dharmasamsthapanarthaya for the purpose of establishing Dharma Simultaneously this is talked about in 4.7 and 8 in the Bhagavad Gita Simultaneously Krishna also talks about another purpose for which he descends and that is talked about in 4.9 Janmakarmachame devyam evam yo vetti tattvataha tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mameti so arjuna So there are these two so this he talks about how by hearing his pastimes everyone can develop love for him and they can attain him and that is an equally if not more important aspect of his pastimes purpose for his appearance So the idea over here is to understand this theme that the Lord’s appearance is multi-level he appears at external level for establishing Dharma in the world and at internal level he appears for establishing Prema in the heart and the Dharma that he establishes is at that for that time the nature of the world is sakalenehamahata yogonashtah parantapa sakalenehamahata by the power of time Dharma becomes deteriorated becomes lost and then that’s why yuge yuge the Lord has to come again and again for establishing Dharma however how so in one sense his purpose of establishing Dharma is external and circumstantial he establishes Dharma in the external world and in particular set of circumstances however what about other times when there is a Dharma in the world what happens in those times how can people be elevated at those times so for that purpose there is something different for those times the next verse is described and that is what Kunti Maharani talks about when she says that actually bhavesmin klishyamananam avidyakamakarmabhi that shravanasmaranarhani karishyan itike chana that bhavesmin klishyamananam in this world there are always distresses and these distresses are caused by ignorance that leads to worldly desires avidyakamakarmabhi and how can this be countered the way to counter this is by the establishment of by hearing shravanasmaranarhani karishyan itike chana when people are attracted towards the remembrance of the lord then by that what happens is their consciousness becomes elevated and then they attain the lord so that is the eternal and internal purpose of the lord’s appearance the eternal and internal purpose is what to give humanity for all time resources for remembering him and thereby raising human consciousness towards the divine so in that sense if we consider this is the divine level the spiritual level this is the material level so at the material level whenever there is disorder the lord descends from the spiritual level to the material level to establish order over here so that is a circumstantial and external purpose of his appearance simultaneously at this material level even after the lord has disappeared when we remember the lord what happens is our consciousness rises to the spiritual level so the descent of the divine is meant to inspire the ascent of the human consciousness the descent of divine from the spiritual domain to the material domain is meant to inspire the ascent of human consciousness from the material level to the spiritual level so how does this happen this happens not just through the lord’s appearance and his demonstration of his pastimes but primarily through the reciting through the recording, reciting and repeating of his pastimes by his great devotees so this is primarily done in the Valmiki Ramayana so it’s interesting how the Valmiki Ramayana is told the retelling of the Valmiki Ramayana it goes parallel with the enactment of the Ramayana that means normally generally if a famous person is living sometimes that person may write their own autobiography somebody else may write their biography sometimes after the person dies then that somebody else may write their biography so that means there are different ways in which a person’s activities may be preserved for posterity that person themselves write or somebody else writes and somebody writes while that person is there or they write after the person has departed now what happens with respect to Valmiki is that he is existing and at the same time Lord Ram is also existing and he is noting down the pastimes of Lord Ram so it is like sometimes if a journalist writes a biography of a particular politician now it is a mundane example and I will qualify this example a little later but sometimes the politician may give a big speech or may be in a mega event and this journalist may also be a part of that event sometimes a major interview of that journalist may be conducted by this particular major interview of that politician might be conducted by this journalist so the journalist is telling the life story of the politician and the journalist is also a character in that particular biography so in that sense Valmiki is similar Valmiki is of course not a journalist he is a saint and there is a big story which demonstrates a beautiful story about how Valmiki is transformed his heart is transformed simply by the chanting of the names of Lord Ram most of us know that story but the point is Valmiki Muni himself appears in the Ramayana because his life and Lord Ram’s life coincide in some ways so he appears as a character in the Ramayana and another way Lord Ram’s story and Valmiki’s telling of the story intersects is toward the end when Love and Kush they grow in Valmiki Muni’s ashram when Sita is sent away from Lord Ram’s kingdom at that time Love and Kush grow up in Valmiki Muni’s ashram Sita gets shelter over there and then they learn the story of Lord Ram but significantly they learn the story of Lord Ram without knowing their relationship with Lord Ram so Sita, they don’t know who their father is but they hear the story of Lord Ram and they are captivated by it they love it, they memorise it, they recite it and then while reciting it what happens is they once are sent by Valmiki Muni’s expert arrangement back to, they are sent to the kingdom of Lord Ram and when they are sent to the kingdom of Lord Ram, Ayodhya and there Lord Ram, he is on a vigilance tour of his kingdom and there he sees people are congregating and they are in ecstasy and he wonders what is happening and he finds there that these two, they are just, you could say children these two enchanting children of some hermits they are reciting his pastimes and everybody is immersed in hearing those pastimes and that immersion is so great that not only Lord Ram but Lord Ram’s entire family at that time all the residents of Ayodhya including his relatives they all become enraptured in hearing the pastimes of the Lord so now what is happening, it might seem very egoistic there are people who write their own autobiographies there is one person, one politician who has written 27 autobiographies that means he has written 27, nearly 1000 pages books describing his own life story without satisfied writing one book my life is so adventurous that he has written 27000 pages about his own life and ok, maybe their life was so interesting, maybe that person is a good author you can write about it, but how much? so is Lord Ram like that, my life story is so glorious, I want to hear it and just see how absorbed I am in hearing my own life story no, that is not at all the theme over there the theme is that Lord Ram is demonstrating a principle over there every book has a driving question the Bhagavatam’s driving question is that what is the duty of a person about to die the Mahabharata’s driving question is what is dharma, what is duty not the antakala dharma, but dharma in general and that is also the driving question of the Bhagavad Gita what is dharma, what is the right thing to do so just as each of these epics, Mahabharata and the Bhagavatam the Bhagavatam is more of Purana, not exactly an epic in the normal sense of the word both of these classic books have the driving question the Ramayana has a driving question and that driving question is what are the characteristics of the ideal person who is there a person who demonstrates such ideal character so Valmiki Muni asked this question to Narada Muni and that time Narada Muni recites a list of characteristics and then he says, Lord Ram exhibits these characteristics and then there is a summary recitation of the Ramayana and Valmiki Muni at that time through a dramatic incident gets the poetic inspiration to compose the Ramayana in its particular metre so from his shoka comes shloka from his grief comes his poetry so what is happening over here is that the whole purpose of the Ramayana is to demonstrate ideal human behaviour the character of the ideal human being and that is why within the Ramayana itself within Valmiki Ramayana Lord Ram’s divinity is not excessively emphasised it is definitely a theme definitely it is a recurrent theme on many many occasions in Valmiki Ramayana it is mentioned that Lord Ram is actually Vishnu himself who is descended to the world however because the purpose of the Ramayana is to demonstrate ideal human character who is willing to sacrifice to any extent for performing duty so for that purpose to be fulfilled Lord Ram’s divinity is downplayed why? because if somebody is facing great difficulties and we come to know that oh that person is somebody lifts some very extraordinary feet somebody gives great charity and that’s nice but if we come to know that person is like a billionaire or trillionaire and that charity is no effort for them then we say ok what’s so great about the charity but if somebody somebody gives so much charity generously even when it hurts them even if it causes deprivation to them then it becomes especially laudable it’s like the story of Amitdev and Shibi who are ready to sacrifice their own their own comfort and even their own life their own body for others that’s especially glorious so what happens is people may say Lord Ram is God God can do anything so what’s so great about his sacrifice he is omnipotent for him what is difficult for him nothing is impossible so what’s so great about his performing sacrifices so when this perspective may cause people to downplay the extraordinary example of service and sacrifice that Lord Ram demonstrates so to prevent that from happening Lord Ram is depicted as a human being performing his duty amid extraordinary duress and that is why there are many occasions in the Ramayana where Lord Ram seems to be unaware of his divinity that he seems to act almost like an ordinary human being so for example the first time when Indrajeet attacks Lord Ram and his army and uses the sarpastra to knock all of them unconscious then Garuda comes over there and he drives away all the snakes and revives Lord Ram and his army and at that time Ram asks Garuda who are you who are you who has done such great favour to us and Garuda says my dear Lord you surely know me I am your eternal servant so then what is happening has Lord Ram has he forgotten has he forgotten that this is his carrier no he has not forgotten that he is Vahana he is acting as a human being and he expresses gratitude to this glorious being who has come to his assistance similarly towards the end of the Ramayana Yudha when the Devatas appear in the sky and then they want to offer blessings to Lord Ram and they initially they felicitate him and they say you have fulfilled our purpose and then Lord Ram says how can I fulfil you and I am paraphrasing over here he says how can I fulfil your purpose and I am a human being you are Devatas then at that time the Devatas say you are actually Vishnu descended on the world so Lord Ram says no you came for our purpose and who am I you tell me what my identity is the Devatas seem to at that time they tell Ram his divinity so the point over there is Lord Ram doesn’t go about bragging about his divinity or even constantly proclaiming his divinity that’s why through this pastime what is happening is again Lord Ram exhibits his gratitude so he is when he sees all the Devatas appearing over there what does he do he prays to them finally when the Devatas realise Lord Ram is playing his Naraleela Kaivalyam he is playing the Naraleela then they tell him that the darshan of the Devatas should never go in vain therefore ask for some blessings and then what blessing does Lord Ram ask he says a king should reward his faithful soldiers who fight taking great risk and sacrificing a lot for his cause but because I was poverty stricken I could do nothing for these Vanaras who fought so heroically for me so he asks multiple benedictions for them he says for those whose bodies were not completely destroyed please bring them all back to life and please arrange for wherever they may live there be abundant resources for their subsistence and for their joyful living so here again Lord Ram exhibits his gratitude to his servitors so similarly the point I am driving towards is that I started by telling about how Lord Ram is hearing his own pastimes so what is he doing by that he is becoming immersed in hearing his pastimes what he is doing essentially is he is demonstrating the character of ideal human being ideal human being should be practising Dharma and Dharma is at various levels Dharma is one’s duty worldly duty is there in the book Jaiva Dharma which is written by Bhaktivinod Thakur there is Nitya Dharma and there is Naimittik Dharma so when the Lord has descended to the world he has descended as a Kshatriya and the circumstance in which he has descended he performs his Naimittik Dharma over there that is he destroys the evil king Ravan and significantly he does not annex Lanka he does not destroy all the Rakshasas over there there are no civilian casualties it is not an indiscriminate war it is a very targeted war to remove Ravan from power and then the Rakshasa kingdom he hands over to a Rakshasa himself but a virtuous Rakshasa that is Vibhishan is made the king and then he returns so that is the Naimittik Dharma Kshatriya establishing order protecting Kshatatrayate Kshatriya protecting humanity from distress but then there is the Nitya Dharma the Nitya Dharma is the eternal duty of the soul and what is the Nitya Dharma that is always remember the Lord and now Lord Ram is God himself but he is playing the role of ideal human being demonstrating how a human being should perform his duty always his or her duty so that Lord Ram demonstrates by immersing himself in hearing the retelling of the Ramayana so in that sense what is happening is again I started by talking about the Nitya Dharma and the Naimittik Dharma the external and internal purpose of the Lord’s appearance so Lord Ram fulfils the external purpose by establishing Dharma by neutralising Ravan at the same time he also demonstrates the full pursuit of the internal Dharma by absorbing himself in the remembrance of the Lord by remembrance of the Lord by hearing the retelling of the Ramayana and that is the first meeting between Love and Kush and he is so captivated he says who are these two children my heart is drawn towards them in a way that is not drawn towards any other child it’s not just because they are his children over there there is some sensation but there is a sweetness oh you recite these pastimes so sweetly I am captivated by this and what happens is that this same theme of Lord Ram hearing his pastimes his own pastimes that theme is replicated in Krishna Leela in the book Gopal Champu in Gopal Champu which is a retelling of the 10th cant of the Srimad Bhagavatam by Jiva Goswami Jiva Goswami creates a setting a non-historical setting wherein at least it is not depicted directly in any of the books of Krishna Leela so in that sense it is non-historical but what he is describing that there are two Sutradharas there are two narrators and these two narrators tell the pastimes of Krishna to Krishna and the Vrajavasis and they all hear those pastimes so that means the Ramayana’s narrative structure is used by Jiva Goswami to retell the retell the 10th cant of the Bhagavatam retell Krishna Leela so the idea is that retelling of the Lord’s pastimes is done so that many many resources for the remembrance of the Lord can be there now it is interesting as I mentioned Lord Ram’s divinity is not highly emphasised in the Valmiki Ramayana but in subsequent retellings of the Valmiki Ramayana whether it be Kamba Ramayana in the south whether it be Tulsi Ramayana in the north south of India, north of India many retellings of the Ramayana the devotional aspect becomes emphasised much much more so for example the Adhyatma Ramayana uses the poetic structure of the Bhagavatam so what do you mean by the structure of the Bhagavatam in the Bhagavatam its dramatic pastimes are going on and suddenly there is a pause for the expression of prayers and there are elaborate expression of prayers so for example the very dramatic pastime of Govardhan Leela happens and at the end of it Indira comes and offers a whole chapter of prayers similarly in Brahmaji Mohan Leela Brahmaji offers a whole chapter of prayers so this kind of depiction is not there that the characters offering prayers to Lord Ram is not a prominent feature of the Valmiki Ramayana but in subsequent retellings that is a feature so the idea is what? that Lord Ram’s pastimes are not just a historical event yes they were a historical event they happened many many millennia ago but the point of the pastimes is not just to report history the point of the pastimes is to raise us beyond history history itself at one level is a record of events that happen within time history is a record of events that happen within time so we may have the history of the Indian independence struggle, we may have the history of say how European colonialism expanded, we may have the history of how America got independence so that’s one level of history but how time passes and what happens within time but when the itihasas are being told the purpose is not just to report history the purpose is to raise a person above history in that sense we could say itihasas are not history, they are his story h-i-s h-i-s-t-o-r-y h-i-s h-i-s-t-o-r-y his story his story is the lord’s story history is told in the itihasas so that the lord’s story can be told history is a means for revealing his story and history yes, are the puranas, is the Ramayana history Valmiki Ramayana history. Yes, it’s history.
But history is a tool for telling his story and the Lord’s story is not just something that happens at one time. The Lord’s past times are eternal. They’re happening in different universes at different times.
They are being recollected and reenacted within the devotees hearts. And that’s why there’s a dramatic tradition of the retelling of the Lord’s pastimes. So today I’ll be focussing on this theme of how the bhakti tradition equips us to remember the Lord and to prove by providing us many many retellings of the Lord’s pastimes to help us remember.
So in one sense every katha on the Ramayana, katha means every time somebody does a Ramayana katha that is a retelling of the Ramayana. Because there is one kind of Ramayana, Parayana where literally the verses of the Ramayana are read out, whether Valmiki Ramayana or some other Ramayana, that is one kind of retelling. That is more of a reading of the Ramayana.
But anytime a kathakar is telling the pastimes, what is that person doing at that time? They are actually retelling the story. Retelling the story means that they are bringing their realisation, their devotion, their articulation. And that is what is the oral living tradition.
So there are people who read books and it’s wonderful to read books. But the bhakti tradition specifically has thrived through the oral tradition much more than the written tradition. The oral tradition means what? There are saintly devotees and there are saints and there are poets and there are authors and there are musicians who there are dramatists who reenact, redepict, retell the Lord’s pastimes.
And through this oral tradition, the Ramayana remains alive. The Ramayana remains thriving. So this oral, this tradition, this living Rama tradition, the living bhakti tradition, which keeps retelling the Ramayana in many different ways, by which we all are provided resources for the remembrance of the Lord.
That is what we will discuss today. So what does that mean? That means that somebody retells the Ramayana. So is this retelling, is any retelling valid? Or only the Valmika Ramayana is valid and no other retellings are valid? How is this to be known? Say for example, in the 1950s, for the first time when a Ramayana movie was made, when actually people went to the movie theatre and they saw Lord Ram, it is described that everybody in the theatre got up and offered obeisances inside the temple because they were having darshan of Lord Ram.
So when the Ramayana TV serial was first depicted, Ramayana Sagar in the 80s, in many places people would wait with Aarti plates and the first time Lord Ram would appear, they would actually do Aarti of Lord Ram. Even now recently during the pandemic, although the entire Ramayana series was available on YouTube, the Ramayana Sagar Ramayana was available on YouTube, but the government when the lockdown was there to provide people something to watch, they had the Ramayana rebroadcast on Doordarshan and the viewership of this series was actually far more than many Marvel Universe or DC Universe movies, which are like millions and millions of dollars of budget. So there is an enduring attraction.
So is such a Ramayana retelling? Because we may say it is not accurately Valmiki Ramayana. So it is not devotional. Well, that would be very categorical.
But is it devotional? No, but it is different. So is it the same as reading Lord Ram’s pastimes from Valmiki Ramayana? So that is what we will discuss today. That how the resources for the remembrance of the Lord can be utilised by us.
How the resources are provided and how the resources can be utilised. So relishing the Ramayana by appreciating its various retellings. That is my theme of discussion today.
So I’ll be using this PowerPoint as a whiteboard and I will speak certain things and I’ll also type some things during the course of the talk. So we could say that we are looking at Ramayana retellings. There could be different attitudes towards such retellings.
Somebody may say that we stick only to the original source. I’ll only read the Valmiki Ramayana. That could be one extreme.
The other is accept every source of Lord Ram’s stories. You know, there is this folktale about Ramayana and there’s this story I’ve heard and this story I’ve heard. I accept everything as authentic.
So both of these, we could say, are extremes of the pendulum and in between is, accept those stories of Lord Ram that harmonise with the philosophy and the rasa. Rasa is the mood of devotion. So in one sense, if this diagram is understood, then we can appreciate the principle.
The principle is of remembering the Lord and attracting people towards the remembrance of the Lord. So Valmiki Rishi wrote the Ramayana in Sanskrit and all of the Sanskrit of the Valmiki Ramayana is very sweet and relatively simple. Still, Sanskrit was a scholarly language.
It was not a language that was accessible for everyone. So the Rama tradition has survived through the, and not just survived, but thrived through the retellings of the Ramayana in vernacular languages. So now when we look at the Valmiki Ramayana and its retellings, so if we say, I’ll stick only to the original source.
Well, at one level, that is good. At the same time, we understand that the Lord’s pastimes are unlimited and because they are unlimited, no single book can describe all the pastimes of the Lord. The Mahabharata is said to be the biggest poem in human history.
Iliad and Odyssey, which are considered to be the greatest among the Western sagas, they are both combined and multiplied seven times, are still less than the Mahabharata. And right at the start of the Mahabharata, it is said that this is the Mahabharata given to the Manavas. The Mahabharata given to the Devatas is many times bigger than this.
So the point is that because the Lord’s pastimes are unlimited, one book cannot describe all the pastimes. And not only can one book not describe it, the Lord also reciprocates with different devotees in their hearts in different ways. And that’s why he may reveal his pastimes in different ways to different devotees.
This is the principle of yad yad dhya tu gurugaya vibhava yanti, that with the kind of bhava that is there in the heart of a particular sadhaka, based on that bhava, the Lord manifests himself. So we appreciate his all attractiveness by seeing how his attractiveness is revealed through the hearts and the compositions of different devotees. So in that sense, saying that this is the only source that I’ll hear from.
Well, that’s one way wonderful. And at least we are hearing that source and we’re sticking to that source. But we are limiting the unlimited through that.
We are limiting the unlimited through that. So Shila Prabhupada, right in the beginning of our movement, within less than one or two years after the moment started, he started telling his disciples that they should start giving classes themselves. He could have said that when I’m not there, you just play the recording of my classes.
But he didn’t do that. He said you give classes. Why? Because he wanted to continue the oral tradition.
He wanted to set the foundation for the oral tradition to continue after his departure or in his absence or after his departure. So, yes, all those who speak in Prabhupada’s movement draw their inspiration from Shila Prabhupada, draw the primary wisdom from him. But they are also the representatives of a living tradition.
And we benefit because we get to hear from different devotees who offer different perspectives. And that helps us move closer to the Lord. So what applies to the oral tradition also applies to the written tradition.
So if we stick only to the living original source, then that may limit us. On the other hand, if we accept any source, then the problem with that is some sources consciously misuse Ramayana for their vested purposes. So there is this retelling of the Ramayana called the Jain Ramayana.
Now, Jain Ramayana, what it does is, this is called misappropriation of religious traditions or co-option of religious traditions. So the Jain mythology, what they have within that is, they have all the Hindu gods, but all the Hindu gods are on a progressive stage towards the ultimate stage of enlightenment as described by the Jain sadhus. So they change the whole story of the Ramayana so that Lord Ram in his forest exile, he meets Jain sadhus and they all give him updesh.
And finally, when Sita is taken into the earth at that time, Lord Ram becomes enlightened and then he becomes a Jain. So now this is a complete distortion of the Ramayana. Lord Ram is actually demonstrating dharma and dharma culminating in bhakti, but a philosophy that rejects the foundations, the idea of Atma, the idea of Bhagwan, that is definitely not what Lord Ram is teaching.
So if we start accepting any and every source, then there are people with their vested agendas and they may tell the Ramayana in a way that serves their agendas that does not serve the purpose of the Ramayana. And that’s why such retellings cannot be considered valid. They cannot be accepted.
We have to be very careful that somebody may be a feminist and they may tell the whole Ramayana from a feminist perspective and their perspective may be, oh, how Sita was constantly exploited and abused and abandoned. Now in the Ramayana, Sita is by no means a victim. Sita is a character of great strength and resilience.
And her, now why she was sent away by Lord Ram is itself a profound pastime. But Sita doesn’t treat her, doesn’t feel, she’s not a powerless victim of a male, of a patriarchy over there. It is a great sacrifice that is done by Sita for a higher cause.
So in one sense, if you want to understand the Ramayana, just as at the start of the Ramayana, Dashrath Maharaj doesn’t want to send Lord Ram away, but duty forces Ram to go away. And both Dashrath and Ram, they do a great sacrifice for a higher cause when Ram goes away into the forest. That same theme which is depicted at the start of the pastime is depicted at the end when Ram and Sita together do a great sacrifice for the higher cause when Sita goes to the forest.
So the rasa has to be understood properly. So that’s why both these pendulums are sticking only to the original source or accepting any other source. That two extremes have to be avoided.
So then how do we know which retellings can be accepted? So the point of the retelling is to embellish the original story. Embellish means beautify, make it more attractive, make it more relevant, make it more appealing. So the example could be that there is a solo singer who is singing very beautifully and people are captivated by that.
And that’s wonderful if people are captivated by the solo singer and they’re hearing the solo singer. Now, one test of the beauty of the singing of the solo singer is how many people come and hear the solo singer. That’s wonderful.
But another test of the beauty of the solo singer singing could be that how many other people with musical and singing abilities want to assist in that performance. So if that happens, that is a sign of the attractiveness of that singer. So somebody with maybe somebody has some sitar, somebody has something could be traditional like sitar, somebody could be modern like a guitar, whatever it is, that they bring it and they start singing it.
They start adding, they may sing, they may play the musical instrument. And what happens is they add the richness of the musical and singing performance that is happening over there. So each additional musical instrument, what it does is, it makes the performance more relishable and more impactful.
In the early days of the Krishna Consciousness Movement, when Srila Prabhupada was in New York and he would perform kirtan in Thompson Square Park, he attracted many people to just come and hear. Some people danced and there were musicians who would come and in the Leelamrit, there is a very beautiful passage and later on, there is an article in the Journal of Aishner Studies, it describes the music of Bhaktivedanta Swami. So it says that Prabhupada, any person would come with music, they would have a harmonica, they would have a mouth organ, they would have many different instruments and any musician who would come, Prabhupada would actually while playing the mrudanga, very warmly welcome that person, come and join.
And that would add to the beauty of the performance. So if the retellings, so every retelling of the Ramayana, it’s like, so Valmiki Ramayana is like, Valmiki’s retelling is like the solo singer and every retelling is meant to enhance the appeal of that performance. So let’s put it in this way, that if there is a solo singer, then the Leelakatha is the original.
So then there is the impact. So the impact is it is attractive. And the solo singer, here it’s not retelling, just the, it just, so it is the solo singing, the Valmiki Ramayana itself is treasured.
It is a treasured telling of the pastimes. So what happens is if there are harmonious musicians who come in, then what happens is the attraction becomes greater, deeper and sweeter. So these harmonious musicians who enhance the solo singer, they are like retellings that elaborate on the tattva, that enrich the rasa.
And then when such retellings are there, those are accepted and celebrated. Now, if there are somebody who doesn’t know music and they play incompetently, or there is someone who doesn’t like the whole musical performance and they come to deliberately disrupt the performance. So say if there is somebody singing very sweetly, but they don’t have a sound system, they’re singing very sweetly.
Somebody else comes with a big sound system and starts singing or speaking something entirely different from what the original singer is speaking. Then, hey, don’t do that, don’t disrupt this, go away from here. So the retellings that militate against tattva and rasa, those retellings, they are jarring, they are alienating, those are rejected, those are even condemned.
So the Ramayana has been told in many different ways. Now in some retellings of the Ramayana, actually Hanuman, so there is one particularly devious retelling of the Ramayana, many, but in which actually, I don’t even want to mention this in this Ramayana past time, but there are some retellings where Sita is depicted as the daughter of Ravan. This is not mentioned anywhere in any of the traditional tellings of the Ramayana.
There are some retellings in which Hanuman is depicted as if he is almost like a Casanova. He is a person who is a person seeking romantic partners. That completely militates against the mood of the Valmiki Ramayana, that militates against the storyline of the Valmiki Ramayana.
So such retellings are not accepted by the tradition. So Srila Prabhupada talks about, in the Bhaktira Samrat Sindhu, he talks about, there is Shastra Pramana and there is Loka Pramana. So Shastra Pramana is what is told in Shastra and Loka Pramana is what is told by, not just people in general, but by authorised people, by respected people.
So if we go to Vrindavan, there are, in Vrindavan, at the many temples of Vrindavan, there is so much, there are so many sweet and relishable pastimes of Krishna that are told. Each of the places, there are so many different pastimes. If you go to Nandagram, if you go to Govardhan, if you go to Varsana, if you go to Rawal.
Now if you look, okay, is this in the Bhagavatam, is this in the, this Puran, is in that Puran? Well, some of those pastimes are there, many of them are not there. But those pastimes are accepted, they are relished, they are treasured. So the celebrated pastime of the Gopis offering the dust of their lotus feet to relieve Krishna of his headache, that pastime does not come anywhere in the, in either the Puranas themselves or in the Goswamis literature.
But no pastime depicts the sacrificial mood of the Gopis devotion as well as that pastime does. So it’s a, it’s a retelling. It enriches the rasa of the pastime and that’s why it is not only accepted, it is celebrated.
So now, this is of course, I’m talking about the retellings of Krishna Leela, but there are retellings of the Ramayana which are also accepted by the Gaudiya tradition. So for example, the Gaudiya tradition overall is relatively a recent tradition, 500 years. And the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition to which the Krishna conscious movement is connected, in which it is based, it has focused more on Krishna and Krishna Leela directly.
And because it is focused on Krishna Leela, therefore, there is elaborate expansion of Krishna Leela, a retelling of Krishna Leela is done through Gopal Champu, Anandavan Champu and many other books to the commentaries of Vishwanath Chakravarthy and Vishwa Prabhupada himself that is there. So the Ramayana, because it has not been the focus of our tradition, there’s not much directly written about the Ramayana. But at the same time, Ramayana was very much a part of the lived tradition at the time of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and at the time of Nithyananda Prabhu.
So now, it is described how Nithyananda Prabhu performed the pastimes of the Lord in his childhood play. As a child when he was playing, he would enact various pastimes of the Lord and some of the pastimes described which he enacts, those are not pastimes from the Valmiki Ramayana. So those are pastimes say from the Ramcharitmanas or other retellings of the Ramayana.
So there is a description of Kalanemi. So when Hanuman is trying to go and Hanuman is seeking the Sanjeevani Bhuti, at that time this demon, he impersonates as a sage and tries to obstruct, tries to divert and obstruct Hanuman and that pastime is enacted by Nithyananda Prabhu and his friends. Now this pastime is not in the Valmiki Ramayana directly, but it is enacted.
That means the expanded Rama tradition is accepted by the Gaudiya tradition. So the same principle applies to other retellings of the Ramayana also. So sometimes there is, this is the concluding point I will take.
Prabhupada, sometimes somebody would say that the Ramcharitmanas is not something which we should be reading because Prabhupada did not prove of it. So that is a very unidimensional understanding of what Prabhupada stated. So what did Prabhupada speak on the Tulsi Ramayana? Let us quickly look at a few quotes.
There are many quotes of Prabhupada and there is a compilation of those quotes also available on my website, The Spiritual Scientist. But here I will take some quotes which illustrate the theme. So this can be said that, this is one letter which is said that which Prabhupada is writing to a letter director regarding the two books you have mentioned Ramcharitmanas by Tulsi Das, Goswami Tulsi Das is not very authorised and Ramayana is authorised.
One thing is though, you have got enough other books to study. Did you appear in the examination held on Janmashtami day? So Prabhupada is significantly, he is, this seems to be saying is not very authorised. And Ramayana, by Ramayana he refers to Valmiki Ramayana is authorised.
But it is interesting, he is not saying this is unauthorised, he is saying not very authorised. And even then he is referring to Tulsi Das by the very respectful title Goswami. So sometimes this retelling is used or this particular letter is used that Prabhupada rejected the Tulsi Ramayana.
But actually this is, if you see this is in 1969, all his disciples are relatively very new and his focus is not so much on rejecting the Tulsi Ramayana as on redirecting the attention of his young disciples towards the books that will nourish them the most. The devotees are new and Prabhupada says that there are so many books we need to read to understand the fundamental philosophy. And why are you reading this book and that book and that book? That is the important thing.
So another concern, here Prabhupada may say why should you go to Ramayana when you have got Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam and teachings of Lord Chaitanya? Don’t divert your attention in that way. The author of Ramcharitmanas, Goswami Tulsi Das has a tint of Mayavadi philosophy. He belongs to the Ramananda Sampradaya.
They are mixed up combination of personalist and impersonalist. So this seems to be a very much stronger and somewhat alarming critique for devotees, tint of Mayavada. So now this question, this raises some concerns.
So based on these two quotes somebody may say that there is no need to read Tulsi Ramayana. And somebody may even say that actually this is a Mayavadi book. Well Prabhupada is not saying it is a Mayavadi book.
It has a tint of Mayavada philosophy. So let’s look at it further. So therefore the author is not considered as pure Vaishnava.
Pure Vaishnava is free from all material contamination, fruitive activity and mental speculation. The pure Vaishnava is simply purely disposed to transcendental loving service to Krishna. The pure Vaishnava rejects anything which has no pure idea of serving the supreme personality of Godhead.
So Prabhupada is concerned here with the purity of the retelling. And so we could take this one quote and based on that we could reject Tulsi Ramayana. See the point is that a fundamental principle if you want to understand Prabhupada’s position on a particular issue, we need to have a holistic perspective.
Holistic perspective means that consider the various statements that Prabhupada has made on a particular topic. Now to take one statement and to make it into the absolute position that is like knowledge in the mode of ignorance. Krishna says in 1822 that to make one thing into everything.
So it is knowledge in the mode of ignorance. It is knowledge that reinforces ignorance. So here there are other quotes of Prabhupada.
So this is in the same year 1969, the room conversation Prabhupada is saying. So he became a great devotee of Ram, Pilsidas. His book Ramcharitmanas, Ramacharitmanas, thinking always of Ram, that is his book.
So manas, remembrance, Prabhupada is giving like a poetic translation of Ramacharitmanas. It is a very famous book and that is the only important literature in the Hindi language, Ramacharitmanas. So here Prabhupada is appreciating.
So there are multiple statements. I will not go into all of the statements. So here one Prabhupada is quoting Tulsidas and then Tulsidas says that he wanted to see Ram.
Yes, that is devotee’s inclination that we must have. So Prabhupada is saying that this is a devotee’s inclination. So Prabhupada says Tulsidas, Tulsidas Ramayan means Ramacharit.
It is not Ramayan, Ramacharitmanas. He was a devotee of Lord Ramachandra. So as he was thinking of Lord Ramachandra, he has written.
So he was a learned scholar, Brahmana. He must have read Bhagavad Gita, Bhagavatam. So Prabhupada is saying that as he is thinking, as he remembered Lord Ram, he has written it and he is appreciating that he was a learned scholar.
He was a Brahmana, he was a devotee. So all his translation is there on the basis of Shastra, especially Bhagavatam and Bhagavad Gita. You will find many parallel passages, but Gita is the summary of all Vedic literature and is spoken by the personality of Godhead.
This is evening darshan, July 8, 1976 in Washington DC. So the point over here is Prabhupada is not rejecting it. Prabhupada is saying that it is founded on Shastra like Bhagavad Gita, Bhagavatam.
So focus on the Bhagavad Gita and Bhagavatam. That was his focus. So Prabhupada quotes Tulsidas also.
In fact, he quoted 13 times the writings of Tulsidas as a positive authority. This is what Tulsidas says. So in his books and in his lectures, he quotes these things.
So now he will say that how do we reconcile? Prabhupada at one level, he is quoted in Chaitanya Charitamruta that Mayavada Bhashya Sunile Hoile Sarvanash. If somebody hears Mayavada, they will be destroyed. Then why does Prabhupada appreciate Tulsidas and even quote Tulsidas? So we have to understand what is going on over here.
That is there a hint of Mayavada? That actually there are some passages that can be read as Mayavadi even in direct devotional books. In Bhagavad Gita, there are many passages like 1854 which can be said to be which some people can read as supporting Mayavada where Krishna says in this way they enter into the unlimited. Now what that unlimited is? The Mayavadis may be interpreted as Brahman and one merges with the Brahman.
The Vaishnavas have a different explanation for that. In the Bhagavatam itself at the end of Lord Rama’s pastimes, it is described that in this way after performing his pastimes, the Lord places lotus feet in the heart of his devotees and then Atmajyoti Raghataha and entered into the Brahmajyoti. Now we say what is going on? This is Bhagavatam.
Why is it describing? So actually it is kind of Lord returned to the spiritual world. So Atmajyoti is at his own effulgence he entered into it. Now what he did after entering into the effulgence? Within that effulgence there is the Ayodhya and he went there.
So if somebody is looking for Mayavad, they can find Mayavad even in the Bhagavad Gita and the Bhagavatam. So the Tulsi Ramayan has been commented upon by Mayavadis at times and sometimes in that way the Mayavadi interpretation becomes more and more, might become prominent on times. But the thing is we look at the fruit and the fruit is that the retellings of the Ramayan such as the Ramcharitmanas has nourished Rama Bhakti in a powerful way for many many people, for millions of people, for several centuries it is nourished.
Now the Rama Darbar that is held in Ayodhya and other places where Lord Ram’s pastimes are enacted that is largely based on Ramcharitmanas and there are people who recite the Ramcharitmanas Dohas, they memorise them and they experience devotion toward Lord Ram. Now is it completely pure devotion free from all contaminations of Karma and Jnana? Well maybe, maybe not. It depends.
There are different people that are at different levels of devotion and they will be attracted at different levels. But if we consider the purpose of the Lord’s descent is to raise human consciousness. So certainly from mundane consciousness towards spiritual consciousness, a certain level of raising of the consciousness has definitely happened.
Is that all the way to pure devotion? For some it may be, for many it may not be. So it is Prabhupada’s focus is on pure devotion. Now there are, I know many devotees within our movement who grew up hearing retellings of the Ramayan.
Even I heard many retellings of the Ramayan when I grew up in Maharashtra and where those Marathi retellings of Ramayan pure. Now if I read back at them, I look at them, there are certain passages which cause me some reservation, some hesitation. But certainly I can say that it is because of those retellings of the Ramayan that Lord Ram entered into my mental and cultural universe and had a prominent place there, not just entered into.
So these retellings can help us in relishing, in connecting with the Ramayan, relishing Lord Ram’s pastimes and moving towards pure devotion. So we as sadhakas, our focus is on the remembrance of the Lord. And in remembering the Lord, the tattva and the rasa are important.
As long as, if something philosophically says that no, actually we don’t have to worship Lord Ram, we have to merge into Lord Ram. Then if that is a philosophical teaching of a particular retelling of the Ramayan, then definitely that is something which we will keep at a distance. If that is the categorical teaching, and there are some retellings of Rama’s pastimes or purported to be Lord Ram’s teachings or teachings to Lord Ram by certain sages, which are definitely Advaitic and those we keep a distance from.
But if there are certain retellings of the Ramayan which nourish devotion, we needn’t go on a mission to condemn those. We don’t have to go on a mission to reject them. If they nourish our devotion, we accept them.
If they nourish others’ devotions, they provide others’ remembrance of the Lord, we accept them. We appreciate them. And then we offer further resources for purer and sweeter remembrance of the Lord.
So rather than seeing this as 1-0, this is right, this is wrong, rather than simply going on a campaign against any particular retellings. Yes, there are certain retellings, definitely they are questionable and they need to be questioned, if not kept at a distance. But we focus on the purpose.
Spirituality is not so much of digital logic as analogue. So is the Ramayan retelling pure? Well, purity is not a 1-0 thing. Purity is a continuum.
And for people, instead of watching Bollywood movies in general, if they are watching Ramayan, even if it is not pure, that is wonderful. Because they are remembering the Lord at some level. And some of them will move forward and focus on direct recollection of the Lord also.
So the more pure the people who are speaking the Ramayan and telling the Ramayan and transmitting the Ramayan, the higher will be the purity coming out from that. So we seek that. But purity is not the only criteria.
Somebody may say Sanskrit is the purest of all languages because Sanskrit is Deva Bhasha. Okay, Prabhupada could have gone to America and given all classes in Sanskrit. And who would have understood? See, purity is important, but connecting with the audience also is important.
Reaching the audience where they are at and raising their consciousness is also important. In fact, that is the purpose of the Lord’s mission. So in this way, we focus on remembering the Lord, relishing His remembrance, and directing our heart’s attraction towards Him more and more.
And Lord Rama has provided us resources for relishing His remembrance. And in the Ramayan tradition, there are further resources being provided. So Srila Prabhupada provided us his books.
Srila Prabhupada wanted his followers to write books. Many of Prabhupada’s followers have retold the Ramayan and told in contemporary terms. And those retellings we can relish.
There are books which are literal retellings of the Ramayan. There are books which are retellings of the Ramayan with certain lessons. And there are enactments of the Ramayan.
Devotees may perform Ramlilas, dramas. And all these are resources by which we remember and we relish. And that way, our consciousness rises towards Lord Ram.
Towards pure spiritual consciousness, where we become absorbed in remembrance of Lord Ram. So I’ll summarise what I spoke today. Broadly, I spoke four main points.
First, I started by talking about the external and internal purpose of the Lord’s appearance. External to establish dharma in the world and internal and eternal purpose to establish bhava, attraction towards him in our heart by providing us resources for remembering him, especially in terms of his eternally relishable pastimes. And then I talked about how the Ramayan has a very striking structure, wherein the author enters into the Ramayan, author enters into the book and the main protagonist is also hearing the book.
So Valmiki Ramayan is the character in the book and Lord Ram is also hearing the Ramayan. So why is that? In that connection, I discussed how Lord Ram’s divinity is not prominent focus. Lord Ram is exemplifying a person who performs duty and thus he performs the naimittik dharma of neutralising the demon Ravan.
But he also performs the nitya dharma of hearing the Lord’s pastimes. So it is not he just egotistically hearing his own life story, but he demonstrates how even a virtuous king should hear the Lord’s pastimes. So nitya dharma he is demonstrating.
And then that theme of retelling of the Lord’s pastimes is what we discuss through the retellings. So Ramayan is not just history. It is history used to tell his story.
So that means the Lord appears at a particular time and performs his pastimes. But the point is to tell his story through history. And that’s why two extreme approaches we need to avoid.
One extreme is to stick only to the original source, Valmiki Ramayan, say in this case. The problem is that the Lord’s unlimited pastimes cannot be limited to one book. And the Lord’s unlimited pastimes can be revealed in unlimited ways to different devotees.
And thus his attractiveness becomes manifested in multifaceted ways. At the same time, we can’t just accept any and every retelling because people with vested agendas, vested interests and self-serving agendas may retell the pastime for their own purposes, like the Jain Ramayan for converting people towards Jainism or feminist retellings to convert people towards feminism, whatever it is. So what do we do? We look at Tattva and Rasa.
That is the philosophical teaching in harmony with the Bhakti Siddhanta and is the result, attraction towards Lord Ram, is remembrance of the Lord being enhanced. And in that connection, we discussed Prabhupada’s position on Tulsi Ramayan. So there are some quotes where he expresses some hesitation or apprehension.
But the purpose is, but again, he appreciates Tulsidas, he quotes Tulsidas’s authority. So the point is that Prabhupada doesn’t want devotees to get distracted to read many, many different books just because it’s a new book. You want him to focus on remembering the Lord and cultivating purity of the heart.
And that was his thrust. So for us in our particular position, we also want to get the understanding properly and we want to relish the Lord’s remembrance. So with guidance from senior devotees and by focussing on the phala, the phala is phalena parichayate, is devotion being nourished, is attraction towards the Lord being enhanced.
We can use the resources that have nourished us in the past. We can choose which nourishes, resources will nourish us in the present. And we can appreciate resources that are nourishing devotion, that are providing remembrance of the Lord to others.
So purity is important, but relevance and appeal are also important. And based on who is where, particular resources may be extremely helpful for people to raise their consciousness upwards. Rather than seeing this detailing simply as one zero, yes, there are some things which are zero and need to be rejected.
But rather than putting everything in the category of digital logic, we understand it’s analogue, that the descent of the Lord is meant to inspire the ascent of our consciousness. And if we are all on the journey for the ascent of our consciousness, for different people, different resources may help in raising their consciousness. And we recognise the value accordingly of these resources.
So let us all pray to Lord Ram that he manifest in our heart and enrich our heart with his remembrance and give us the guidance by which we can become attracted to those resources that enhance our remembrance of the Lord more and more. Thank you very much. So are there any quick questions anyone has? Thank you for a wonderful class.
So it will take some time to digest. So devotees, please go ahead. It’s late for East Coast people, devotees.
So if you have any quick questions, as Prabhuji said, please go ahead and ask. Yes, Sumit Prabhu. Yes Prabhu, I want to ask you.
So ultimately is Ramcharitmanas a book for us to read? I know it is for remembrance you mentioned, but is it a book that one should read? Well, it’s not should. It is certainly if it helps in nourishing our remembrance of the Lord, we can read it. There’s no mandate.
It is like the Bhagavad Gita, the Bhagavatam, these are books that are core to our tradition. Those we should read. Other books, we can read them.
There are devotees, Radhagoind Maharaj, Gaurgoind Maharaj. Radhagoind Maharaj especially does his Kathas based on the Tulsi Ramayana quite often. When Gaurgoind Maharaj was asked about the stint of Mayavad, he made the same point.
He said, if you want, you can find Mayavad even in the Bhagavatam, in the Gita also. He said, I have read the, you tell me where the Mayavad is there and then we will see. So, there are many devotees in our movement who were nourished by Ramcharitmanas and who are now definitely devotees in the position of exalted spiritual leaders in our movement.
And so, they do read and relish the Tulsi Ramayana also. So, I would say that it’s not, every tradition has a canon. Canon means those are the central books of the tradition.
So, in the Gaudiya tradition, we could say that the books of Bhaktivinoda Thakur, the books of the Goswamis, the books of Chakravartipada, these are like the, and of course, for us within the Gaudiya tradition, within ISKCON, the books of Srila Prabhupada. These are the canonical books. They are the central books in our canon.
At the same time, there are books beyond those canonical books which are also important books. So, the Tulsi Ramayana will fall in that category of books. So, the Ramayana itself, Valmiki Ramayana itself will be like a canonical book for us.
But the Tulsi Ramayana would be a retelling which we can read if we want to. So, now, should we read it? It’s not a matter of should. The canonical books are something which we should read.
Prabhupada did not institute a Bhakti Shastri exam based on, or even Valmiki Ramayana, what to speak of Tulsi Ramayana. He considered certain books are foundational for us to study. The Bhakti Shastri, Bhakti Vaibhav, the various levels of Bhakti Sarvabhauma and others.
He had certain books which he emphasised. Apart from that, other books can also be read. It’s not that they should be, but they can be.
Okay. Yes, Maltipriya Mataji. Hare Krishna Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances.
All grace to Srila Prabhupada. All grace to you, Prabhu. A wonderful lecture, Prabhu.
I had a question about the Mahajans. I read that Janaka, Bhishma, Kapila, they are all great Mahajans. Can you explain to me how Janaka is also a Mahajan? I have never read about glories of Janaka and how he is a great devotee of Krishna that he is glorified as a Mahajan.
And second question I have is. One question at a time. Now, as far as Janaka is concerned, I have also enquired about it and I don’t have a definite answer.
I’ll tell the best understanding that I have got by reading and hearing. See the name Janaka is also considered to be like an epithet. It’s like a title.
It is both a proper noun and a common noun. Proper noun is the name of a particular person. Common noun is like a title.
So like Prabhupada is both a proper noun. For us in ISKCON, there is one Prabhupada, that is A.C. Prabhupada. But Prabhupada is also a common noun.
So for the Gaudiya Math, it is Bhaktasaheb Sri Thakur who is Prabhupada. Now, if you go to Vrindavan, they use the samadhis of Jivgoswami. It is Jivgoswami Prabhupada.
So Prabhupada can be a common noun and it can also be a proper noun. So similarly, there are places in Gita, in explanation of the Gita where I read that Janaka refers to a common noun. So which particular Janaka is being referred to can vary from person to person.
Having said that, the King Janaka Maharaj, who is the father of Sita, there are descriptions of how he, while he was a king and who did his duties diligently, he also supported a spiritual culture wherein he encouraged sages to come and have discussions and he himself facilitated those discussions. In the Upanishads, there is a description in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, Janaka asks about what is the ultimate reality and there are various sages who answer, Yajnavalkya answers finally. And then there are other places where Janaka Maharaj has discussions even with female hermits.
So he, while being a Karma Yogi who established Dharma in his kingdom, he also focused on the Param Sathya, on the search for the ultimate reality. And not only he supported, protected the Brahmanas, but he actively sought that. So he was doing his Karma in terms of doing his Raja Dharma.
At the same time, he was also striving for Yoga by seeking to know the ultimate reality. And there are stories also of him being very eager to hear the Lord’s pastimes or hear Param Sathya in general, even when he could easily have made excuses or got distracted to other things. So Janaka could refer to some other king about whom he do not know, or it could refer to the mother, the father of Sita, who did both, who was a competent king and who was also a committed seeker of the absolute truth.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much, Prabhu.
The second question was, you gave a recent lecture, maybe about two years back on Nama Ramayanam. So I just wanted to hear that again, tomorrow being Rama Navami. Is there a link? Can I go to your website? Yeah, I think it’s not one lecture.
It’s a series of meditations on Nama Ramayanam. So if you just search for Nama Ramayanam, the various names, I have commented on them. You will find it on the spiritualscientist.com. Okay, Prabhu, thank you so much.
Harikrishna. Thank you very much. Are there any other questions? Go ahead.
Yes, Ramakrishna. Yeah. Okay.
Harikrishna Prabhuji, thank you so much for that very, very wonderful, always balanced lecture, very, very mature lecture. The way you started the class itself, Descent of the Divine is meant to inspire the ascent of the human. It is super, Prabhuji.
Thank you so much. Also, I really liked the way you gave balanced perspective about accepting, accepting the retellings of the Sampradaya. I really connected to that very much because there are several Telugu versions, Prabhuji, of Ramayana, Tikkana Ramayana, Mola Ramayana, and also Bhagavatam, there are Pothana Bhagavatam.
So I know that we are aspiring for something really pure, but it’s a journey and accommodating existing retellings. Thank you so much. I hope ISKCON does it that way.
I know you are that way, but I hope ISKCON does it that way, Prabhuji. Thank you so much. My question, Prabhuji, is, so for any Sampradaya, we know that Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads, Brahma Sutras, three are like Prasthanatraya, they are considered the basis of any Sampradaya.
That’s okay. But why Ramayana and Mahabharata are not in the canon of Gaudiya Sampradaya, Prabhuji? Why are they not considered main books? Okay. Two, three different points over here.
First is the Prasthanatraya. Let’s look at the traditional perspective and then we look at ISKCON specifically. The Prasthanatraya was primarily meant for determining the nature of ultimate reality.
So now if you see specifically, there are six systems of philosophy within the broad Vedic school. They are called orthodox or traditional and there are heterodox schools like Jainism, Buddhism, Charvakism. Now even within these six systems of philosophy, there is one system Vedanta and what we call as Prasthanatraya is the authoritative source of authority for those who are followers of Vedanta.
So apart from that, there is Sankhya, there is Mimamsa, there is Nyaya and they don’t consider this Prasthanatraya to be the primary thing. So for example, if there are proponents of Mimamsa and Nyaya, they may not necessarily comment on these books but it is primarily for the Vedantic tradition. Of course, what happened as the Vedantic tradition became more and more influential, then over a period of time, other traditions within the broad Vedic tradition also started supporting on their own philosophy using the Vedantic traditions with the authoritative source of the Vedantic tradition.
See, what happens is there are again, there are two aspects for any living tradition that the tradition has its own sources of authority and there are sources of authority that are considered authoritative in the society that they are living in. So for example, in today’s world, if we want to attract people to Krishna consciousness, fundamentally we may have to talk about the existence of the soul and existence of God. Now, we can go to Gita verses for the existence of the soul but that may not be the most convincing for people today.
That’s why we may draw some evidence from science. We may draw some evidence from contemporary experience, contemporary systems of knowledge. So, these are not our primary sources but they may be primary for our audience even before they come to our primary sources.
So similarly, within the Vedantic tradition, the commentary on the Prasthanatraya was considered foundational for that tradition to be considered authoritative. However, this was also you could say a historical phenomenon. In the sense, there are many scholars of the Vedic philosophy before Shankaracharya and they didn’t comment so much on the Prasthanatraya.
So, if you see for example, the Alwars, they are considered very great saintly people. Their books are considered like the parallel Vedas but they didn’t comment on those things. So, what happens is within the broad Vedic canon itself, certain books may become more prominent at particular times.
So, Shankaracharya commented on the Prasthanatraya, we could say. He had his own reasoning why these three books are important and he commented on that and then when his teachings became especially prominent, at that time to counter his teachings, the Vaishnavacharyas had to establish Vaishnav Siddhanta. But then because he had commented on certain books, so they took those same books and showed actually these books don’t teach what Shankaracharya is teaching exactly.
That the books are in one sense much more reasonably explained with the Vaishnav Siddhanta than the Advaitic Siddhanta. So, if you see, although the Prasthanatraya is important, Prabhupada didn’t comment on the Prasthanatraya, Bhakti Sanskrit Dacoit didn’t comment on the Prasthanatraya. The last Acharya who commented more or less on the Prasthanatraya was Mahatma Baldevidya Bhushan in our tradition.
Actually, because he is not the last, only Acharya in our tradition. But then what happened is after, once modernity came to India, Prasthanatraya was not so relevant. How many of us were attracted to ISKCON because ISKCON has commentaries on Prasthanatraya? No, we didn’t even know about Prasthanatraya.
So, what happens is at different times in history, different books may be considered of primary importance. In fact, only recently I came to know that when Bhakti Sanskrit Dacoit disciples, early disciples, they went to Europe, they didn’t even carry Bhagavad Gita with them. And when they gave some important talks, they would actually prepare the whole talk as a written speech and they would send the speech to Bhakti Sanskrit Dacoit by post to have him review and edit it and he would send it back and then they would deliver the speech.
And in their speech, they didn’t really emphasise the point that you are not the body or the soul. That was not a central teaching in their speech. They were focussing on the universality of Lord Chaitanya’s message of divine love.
That was their broad theme. So, their primary book was a book written by Nishikant Sanyal, a disciple of Bhakti Sanskrit Dacoit called Shri Krishna Chaitanya, Shri Chaitanya actually. So, that book which Bhakti Sanskrit Dacoit himself had helped, he had himself edited the book when Nishikant Sanyal wrote it.
Nishikant Sanyal was a professor in Ravinshaw College. So, what happened was they made that book the centre of their teachings. But when Prabhupada went to the West, he considered the Bhagavad Gita was much more relevant.
Bhagavad Gita was much more relevant to the needs of the audience and he focused on that. So, in that sense, the canon is not, you could say like a frozen thing. It is that which nourishes, that provides for the needs of the audience at that particular time.
So, Prabhupada did talk about how the serious student of the Bhagavatam should read the previous Acharya’s commentaries on the Bhagavatam. But Prabhupada did not emphasise that nobody can go back to Godhead if they don’t read the Sathya Sandarbhas. They don’t read Goswami’s books.
So, in that sense, the canon rather than thinking of it as one frozen set of books, we see it as that which helps the seekers at a particular time to raise their consciousness towards the Lord. So, are the Ramayana and the Mahabharata canonical books? Well, in the Gaudiya tradition, the focus is on Krishna. And because of that, that singular focus on Krishna’s teachings, Krishna’s pastimes.
So, Krishna’s teachings is Bhagavad Gita. Krishna’s pastimes is the Bhagavatam. And Krishna’s pastimes specifically as enacted, relished by Mahaprabhu Sri Yantra Charita Amrit.
These books are considered canonical. Now, at the same time, we will see that in these books, there are many references to the Ramayana and the Mahabharata or it is assumed that the reader knows the Ramayana and Mahabharata. The Bhagavad Gita can be understood much better if we know the Ramayana.
The Bhagavatam contains many allusions, many direct and indirect references to the Ramayana. So, the Gopis, when they are remembering Krishna, they are comparing Krishna’s activities at times with Rama’s activities. So, that is why, although these books may not be canonical, but they are part of the literary heritage within which the central books of our tradition are established.
So, definitely, these books, the Ramayana and Mahabharata are central, are important for us to understand and relish the Vedic message, the message that can raise our consciousness. So, that is our understanding. Okay.
Thank you, Prabhuji. Thank you so much. Thank you very much.
Yes. Rathiatara Prabhu, we had a question or shall we stop? It’s almost one and two hours now. Yeah.
So, Prabhuji, it is not exactly a question, some clarification we were looking from you. Initial stage when we are sadhakas, I have seen a couple of places, if the pure Lord Ram’s devotees are there and Krishna’s devotees are there, somebody suddenly asks in Hare Krishna Mahamantra, who the Rama name indicates, I mean, points to. So, I have seen little bit argument coming up and devotees are unhappy if you interpret one way or the other, even if you quote Prabhupada also.
So, how do we understand that in Hare Krishna Mahamantra? What is Rama referring to there exactly? Okay. So, what does Ram refer to in the Hare Krishna Mantra? Again, this is not a one zero kind of understanding. This is what it refers to and this is what it doesn’t refer to.
Rather, it is at multiple levels. In Baldevidya Bhushan, in his Govinda Bhashya commentary on the Vedanta Sutra, he says that the Lord is reciprocal. So, he gives examples that sometimes there are verses, there are poetic compositions of Krishna and suddenly within the poetic compositions about Krishna, there is a verse about Ram or sometimes there are poetic compositions about Ram and within that, there are suddenly verses about Krishna or come closer to our tradition.
We have that we have Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was immersed in not just remembrance of Krishna, but remembrance of Krishna in a particular mood, that is of the Gopis of Radharani feeling separation from Krishna. Well, Radharani is Vrindavan and Krishna has gone away to Mathura and Andhwarka. That was the specific mood and yet that same Krishna, that same Lord Chaitanya, he relished going to Alalnath.
He was staying in Puri where Jagannath is Krishna in separation from Radharani, but Alalnath seems to have a Vishnu temple. So, why was he going to the Vishnu temple? So, there is this at one level, there is Achintya Veda where Vishnu and Krishna are non-different, but then the Gauri Acharyas explain that when Mahaprabhu was going to Alalnath, he was not just seeing Vishnu over there. He was actually remembering when he was taking darshan of Vishnu, he was remembering that pastime of the Lord of Krishna when in the Raas Leela, Krishna had taken the form of Vishnu.
The Gopis were searching for Krishna and Krishna just to have, tease them, to have fun with them. He had taken the four-handed form and then all the Gopis asked, they saw Vishnu and initially they thought this Krishna, they were delighted, but when they saw this is, oh this is Vishnu, they were dejected. So, that is the level of the Gopis that seeing Vishnu is the greatest fulfilment for any of the sages, but the Gopis, they are disappointed by that and they offer obeisances and they asked, can you tell us where is Krishna? And Krishna points his fingers, he’s gone this way and then they run away, but Radharani comes and Krishna tries to do the same thing, but Radharani’s love for Krishna is so great that Krishna’s hands melt away and then Radharani sees Krishna over there.
So, in Vishnu, Krishna is revealed. So, similarly when Mahaprabhu was going to the Alalnath temple, he was actually seeing Krishna over there. Now we may say, but no, that temple deity was actually Vishnu’s deity.
Whoever had built that temple, they had built a Vishnu temple, they had not built a Krishna temple. Well, that is the sweetness of remembrance of the Lord that a devotee can remember the Lord and the Lord in a particular mood also in various places. So, similarly, if we consider the traditional context within which the Hare Krishna Mahamantra comes, the Hare Krishna Mahamantra comes in the Kalisandran Upanishad and in the Kalisandran Upanishad, if we look at the context of how it is being described, I have a link on my website with the article describing this, there is a southern recension of the Kalisandran Upanishad, there is a northern recension.
So, in one of the recensions, the mantra starts with Hare Ram, in another recension it starts with Hare Krishna. So, both mantras are in that sense valid. But the point is, if you look at the traditional, it does seem to be referring to the Supreme Lord.
So, it is Krishna and Ram, the two prominent manifestations of the Lord. So, Krishna is, of course, the Krishna who spoke the Bhagavad Gita and Ram is Lord Ramachandra. But at the same time, Ram can also refer to Balaram.
So, when we are focussing in the Gaudiya tradition, the Gaudiya Vaishnavism at one level focusses on remembrance of Krishna singularly and connects everything with Krishna. So, a devotee tries to see Krishna everywhere. So, then we will see that Ram as Balaram or we may see that Ram even as the one who gives pleasure to Radharani.
So, we have Radhika, Raman, Ram. The Ram can also refer to the one in whom Radharani delights. So, Ram can also be a name of Krishna.
Ram can also refer to Parashuram. It is also another name. But the point is that there can be different levels of Krishna consciousness or you could say Ram consciousness within the name of Lord Ram also.
So, whom does it refer to? Well, if you see in the Bhagavad Gita, Prabhupada, I don’t remember the exact verses, but Prabhupada at one place he says that we can fix our mind on Krishna, on Ram, on Narasimha. The Lord has so many different forms and we can fix our mind on any of these forms. But towards the conclusion of the Gita in Sarva Dharma Parittu Jaya, in that section Prabhupada says we should fix our mind only on Krishna, not even on Vishnu, not even on Ram, only on Krishna.
So, what is going on over here? Is Prabhupada giving contradictory instructions? No, it is contextual instructions. So, that when we are striving to raise our consciousness, meditating on any form of the Lord is wonderful. It’s wonderful.
However, if we want to develop our particular rasa with a particular form of the Lord, we will focus on that. So, that’s why I don’t think this needs to be made into a polemical issue where we have to debate with others. That this Ram in the Hare Krishna Mahamantra, whom does it refer to? Well, just recite the name and whichever remembrance manifests in our heart, that’s wonderful.
And if somebody is naturally attracted to a Lord Ram and Lord Ram Chandra’s remembrance manifests for them, that’s fine. If it is Krishna’s remembrance that manifests, it’s Balram’s remembrance that manifests, it’s Parashuram’s remembrance that manifests, that’s also fine. So, this doesn’t have to become an issue of, it is not so much an issue of philosophy where it has to be debated, it is more an issue of rasa where it is to be relished.
And however a person relishes it, we appreciate that and help them nurture the remembrance of the Lord through that rasa. Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you very much.