Ravana -Ten Heads, Zero Brains – Keeping our desires in control

[Talk at St Louis, USA]
Video

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna. Thank you very much for coming today evening. And I am grateful to be here amongst all of you.
And over the next few days, I’ll speak on some life lessons from the Ramayana. I have written a book on wisdom from Ramayana and I’m writing a series of books on wisdom from the Indian epics, Ramayana and Mahabharata. And other books, Bhagavatam, of course.
So, today I’ll talk about the nature of desire. How sometimes some desires become obstinately strong and how they can be corrected. So suppose we are going along the road and while going along that road, we see danger ahead, do not proceed.
Normally, if we see such a sign, what would we do? What do you think we should do? OK, go back or take some other route. Good point. Either we go back or if we have to go, then we find some other way.
But suppose somebody goes on and another sign comes. And again, danger ahead, do not proceed. And still they go ahead.
Not one, not two, not three, but there are ten signs and all the ten signs, they neglect and they keep going ahead. And then that road comes not to a dead end, but that road just goes to a cliff. And zoom, they just go up the cliff.
So now when they go off the cliff, they may forget gravity, but gravity won’t forget them. So if somebody neglects warnings repeatedly, then the consequence, they are responsible for it. So we know in the Ramayana, who is the villain? Ravana.
Yes. So what is Ravana’s most visible characteristic? Yes, ten heads. Right.
I mean, you can let someone raise hands and then answer. So ten heads. That’s why one of his name was Dashanana.
So one of the names in the Valmiki Ramayana, in the Nama Ramayana, the Nama Ramayana is a compilation of about 100 names of Ram with one, one pastime being conveyed by one name. So those who cannot recite the whole Ramayana, they just recite the Nama Ramayana every day. And that’s how you can remember Lord Ram.
So one of the names over there is Samrut Dashanana Ravana Rama. Samrut means to kill. Dashanana, one who has ten heads.
Ravana. That demon, Ram. So can you repeat this name? Samrut Dashanana Ravana Rama Ram Ram Jai Raja Ram Ram Ram Jai Sita Ram So Dashanana, he had ten heads.
Now, there are some people who think there was a branch of science which has now been more or less debunked. It was called phrenology. Anyone good at words? Does anyone know what is phrenology? Phrenology is the idea that the shape of the skull determines the level of the intelligence.
So by studying the skull, if somebody is very intelligent, their head must be very big. So they would study the skull and by that they would try to infer who is more intelligent. Now, of course, the dogma has shifted from the skull to the brain.
Now, you know, in Egypt, the ancient Egypt, the pharaohs, what would happen to their bodies? Yeah. So when they were rapid, what was it called? Mummy. Yes.
Thank you. So just as the bodies were mummified over there, now some scientists have taken the brain of Einstein and they have mummified it, hoping that in the future, if you find out how to revive a dead person, then we will get Einstein back. So the idea is that some people think that either the size of the brain or the size of the skull, size of the head, determines the level of the intelligence.
But that is unfortunately not true. So basically, the size of the head is largely determined by the size of the body. A small baby will have a small head.
As we grow up, our head will also grow. Of course, some people can have a bigger or smaller head. But Sir Ravan, he had ten heads, but he had zero brains.
Zero brains means not that his head was empty, but it was not physically empty, but he did not have intelligence. And we’ll talk about, today’s whole class will be about how Ravan got ten warnings. So you could say one warning corresponds to one head.
So he got ten warnings, but he neglected all those ten warnings. And that’s how he coded destruction. So now Ravan, at one level, represents the obstinate desires that we have.
We all have desires and desires are not bad. But desire is what makes us do things in life. Whether it is good or bad, we are all moved by desire.
So desire itself is neutral and it is actually a great power. But if we desire something good, then that brings out good within us, that makes us manifest something good in the world. But if we desire something bad, then that desire can cause bad.
Such desire is a self-destructive desire. And different desires have different strengths. Say, if we are passing by a supermarket or a mall and we see, this food item looks nice, I want to buy this.
That means it’s just a casual desire that has come up. We saw that and we got the desire. But then we see it and then look at the price tag.
Not worth it. Forget it. So what has happened? The desire came because of the situation.
And then another factor of the situation was the price. Forget it. Not worth it.
So some desires are casual. They come from external and they are also deterred by externals. But some desires are very deep rooted.
So now, how does a desire become deep rooted? Now, if we consider, just last year I was in Calgary. Calgary is in a part of Canada which is quite cold. So I was in winter.
So we had gone up a hill for a college programme and we’re coming down. At that time, snowballs were forming. Do snowballs form here also? The snowfall here? No, but not snowballs don’t form.
There’s no hill over here nearby. So now it is interesting. We were in a kind of winding road up the hill.
So we’re observing that how at the top of the hill, it is not a snowball. It is just a snow pebble. Tiny.
And at that point, if somebody just kicks it, they just break apart. So it is a snow pebble and it can be easily cracked. But as it starts coming down, down, down, down, what happens? It becomes bigger.
It gains mass and gets momentum. So from the snow pebble it becomes a snowball. And then from snowball, it becomes a snow boulder.
And then by the time it comes down, the same person who could have kicked it away, now can get knocked away. So that which is so easy to stop can become unstoppable. So therefore, the best time to stop the snowball from forming or from damaging is when? Right at the top.
The earlier the snowball is stopped, the better it is. So our desires are also like that. Initially, when they come, they’re just like tiny snow pebbles.
But when they roll down our consciousness, that means when we keep thinking about them, we keep dwelling on them, especially if we keep acting on them. Then as we keep acting on them, they start becoming stronger. The illusion often is that when we get a desire, I think I will indulge in this desire.
The desire will go away. Yes, it goes away, but afterward it comes back stronger. So there was a British poet, Oscar Wilde.
He said that giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world. I have done it over 100 times. So I gave it up, but it didn’t give me up.
So I give it up, but it comes back again. So like that, our desires, the more we indulge in them, the stronger they become. So when it is a snow pebble, it is easy to break it.
But by the time it becomes a snow boulder, it becomes almost impossible to stop. So for Arjun, for Ravan, his desire had become like a snow boulder and he got warnings. Don’t let this grow.
Don’t let this grow. But he was not ready to stop it. And some people say that I have no determination.
If somebody is a maybe alcoholic or somebody may be a drug addict. I have no determination to give this up. But actually, that is not true.
How that is not true, I’ll come to at the end of the session. Everybody has determination to talk about it. But let’s go over the Ramayan storyline quickly to look at some of these points.
So we’re discussing how Ravan got 10 distinct warnings. It’s like the snow pebble is forming and is rolling down, down, down. Stop it.
Stop it. Stop it. Stop it.
Stop it. Stop it. But he’s not ready to stop it.
So it was Ravan’s desire for Sita that was his destruction. That was the cause of his destruction. And the first warning he got against don’t mess with Ram.
Who told him that? Does anyone know? Vibhishan was the third character. Yes. Yes.
Perfect. Maricha. Thank you.
What is your name? Prahlad. Oh, excellent. So Prahlad knows about Maricha.
Nice. Good. Thank you.
So Maricha was a shape changing demon. Now Ravan could also change shapes, but he had the capacity to change into any shape and great expertise. So Ravan initially, when he heard that Ram had single handedly destroyed his whole regiment at Janasthan, he was furious.
How dare somebody do like this? But then the same soldier Akampan, so only one general had escaped from that attack. His name was Akampan. Now Akampan means? Kampan is what? Doesn’t even know? Shaking.
So trembling. Akampan means one who never trembles. But this Akampan was doing Kampan.
He was trembling when he came to Ravan. And he gave the report and he said, don’t don’t mess with him. So, but Ravan said, no, he has attacked me.
I will destroy him. Then he said, OK, we’ll do one thing. If at all you want to take revenge, don’t attack him directly.
He said, better you weaken him. Everybody now he thought that he is in a, this Ram is a Yodhya prince, he’s in the jungle. He’s so, he is very attached to his wife.
That’s why he has brought his wife also with him to the jungle. The jungle is not a very comfortable place to stay. Everybody pursues things according to their own perspective.
Now, he did not think that it could be Sita was so committed to Ram that she was ready to be thick and thin with him. He thought that it is Ram is attached to Sita. That’s why he has brought her to the forest.
So he thought from his own perspective, if he can just take Sita away from him, if he abducts Sita, because he is so attached, he will become weak by that. So then with that plan, he said, that’s a good idea. He went to Maharaj.
And when he told Maharaj, this is the plan, he became horrified. He said, now when you have to give advice to someone or you want to oppose someone, that person is very powerful and superior to you. If you say that, don’t do this, who are you to tell me not to do this.
So you have to be very intelligent. So Maharaj said, Ram is so powerful that twice he has attacked me and the force of his arrow threw me a far, far, far distance away. And now I am so afraid of him that as soon as I hear the sound Ra, anything from Ra, I become fearful.
Now he is also intelligent. He didn’t say, Ram, this is a foolish idea. He said, what enemy of yours has given you this idea? Whoever has given you this idea, that person is not your friend.
That person is your enemy and that person needs to be punished. So what happens by this? You don’t criticise the other person. Don’t tell, your idea is foolish.
Who has given you this idea? That person is foolish. So now Ram said, OK. So many times, especially if there are differences among opinion people and somebody has to be rejected or somebody’s opinion has to be rejected.
It’s important to help people save their face, especially if somebody is in a respectable position. It’s important to not make people lose face. So if you give people an opportunity, sometimes, sometimes, you know, the life is, the world is, we have finite resources and we can only choose one path.
So if somebody respectable is choosing something and we cannot accept that, then don’t make it a public rejection and humiliation. Because if it becomes a public rejection and humiliation, then it becomes not only their ego comes into the picture. So Maharaja does that.
He says, what enemy of yours is it? OK. So Ravan, Ravan conveniently doesn’t say, that is my idea. OK, OK, let’s forget it.
And he went back. But then after that, his sister came over. Who is his sister? Shurpanakha.
So the word Shurpanakha has many different meanings. So one meaning of it is, now there are different ways of doing etymology. Etymology, etymology means the origin of words.
So Shurpanakha, nakha means nails. Shurpanakha means she had nails which were huge. That’s one meaning of that word.
There are other names also. But anyway, she came and she told Ravan, first she said her nose had been cut off by Rama. So he is humiliating.
Who is there to humiliate you like this? I will destroy. And then he said it was Rama and his brother Lakshman. Now immediately all of Ravan’s anger got punctured.
Then he now the whole story he already knew from from Akampana. Akampana already told him the whole thing. He said, who attacked whom first? She said, actually, I went to them first.
They were living peacefully in their territory. You were living peacefully in your territory. It was you who attacked and they defended.
So it is you who are at fault, not them. So Ravan is again trying to save his face. Because he as a citizen, as a king, he has to take action.
Why should we blame them? It is you to be blamed. Oh brother, but you didn’t know why I went there. Why was that? What happens? Everybody gives their own spin to the story.
Sometimes I try to do mediation or conflict resolution. So usually there are always two sides of a story. And sometimes the two sides are so different and we think it is two different stories only.
Are they talking about the same incident? I was just in DC and I was talking with a devotee who is a mediation expert. He said, actually, I learned that for every story, there are not two sides, but three sides. There are multiple sides.
So Shurpanakha had gone there because she had been first attracted by the smell. She wanted to eat some food. So humans are like her food for her.
And then when she saw Ram and he was so attractive, then suddenly her lunchbox changed into her love interest. Completely changed. And then when that happened, when Ram refused, then she tried to kill Sita.
And that’s when she had actually caught Sita by the neck and tried to kill her. So some people ask, why did Lakshman have to cut off her nose like that? It was humiliating for her. Actually, you could say it could have been justified to cut off her neck also.
So she had tried to kill Sita and had to pull her off. So he gave him basically, he was let off with a small punishment. But when Shurpanakha went there, now she she has her own agenda.
So she spun the whole story. Actually, you know, my brother, I love you so much. So I feel that you need the best of everything.
You deserve the best of everything. And this Ram has a wife, Sita, and she is the most beautiful woman in the whole world. And when I saw her, I felt that she would be the best queen for you.
So in order to get her for you, I went there. So she completely changed the story. And then as soon as he started describing the beauty of Sita, Ravan’s snow pebbles started rolling.
It started rolling. And Ravan immediately, now he was very interested. I want Sita for myself.
So now at this time, again he went to Maricha. And when he went to Maricha, he was surprised. What has happened? I just told him.
Now, earlier he thought Maricha had given me good advice to protect me. Now he thought he’s just being disobedient. He said, you know, I want you to assist me.
Maricha was about to speak something. And Ravan said, I have not come here for you giving me suggestion. I have come here for my giving you instruction.
So if you don’t obey me, I will kill you. Then Maricha thought, now I think my life is over. So either I have to die at Ravan’s hands or at Ram’s hands.
So better let me die at Ram’s hands. So Maricha had given a warning, but he did not listen. Then he kidnapped Sita.
Now along the way also, now there are many people who gave warnings. Sita herself warned also. Jatayu also warned.
But we’ll look at the major warnings. Warnings which were accompanied by some substantial reasoning or some substantial demonstration. So what, who gave him the second big warning? Sorry? That was before Vibhishan.
Okay, when was, somebody from? Yeah, Mandodari kept warning him throughout. I’ll talk about her warning at the end. She kept warning him again and again.
But somebody came and destroyed Lanka. Yes, Hanuman. So when Hanuman came there, Hanuman first, Ravan had thought I’ve got Sita, now I’m completely safe.
I’ve got a foolproof plan. Because who can reach across the ocean? Some people think that doing wrong actions is not the problem. It is just getting caught for doing the wrong actions.
And if I don’t get caught, then there is no problem. I saw one cartoon. It said that a person was caught for speeding.
So the traffic cop pulls him over and asks, did you not see the speed limit? Yes, I saw the speed limit. I just didn’t see you. So he thought like that, once I get Sita, Lanka is impregnable.
But Hanuman came over there, across the ocean, penetrated in Lanka, found Sita, talked with her. He destroyed, where had Ravan kept Sita? Ashokwatika. So it was Ashokwatika.
But for Ravan, Hanuman made it to Ashokwatika. It’s destroyed for him. And then he demonstrated his power.
And then even the Brahmastra could not tie him for very long. And then after that, when he tried to, he had Ravan arrested, Hanuman arrested for Samna, Hanuman warned him, saying that if you do not return Sita, you will be destroyed. And further he gave him one more, he says, you are very proud of Brahma’s moons.
But remember that you do not have immunity from whom? Humans. Humans and monkeys. Humans and monkeys will destroy you.
And then, in case he still did not have that assurance, what he did was, Ravan tried to burn his tail. Now, it is not just a funny thing, burning the tail. It was, his idea was that, first he wanted to kill Hanuman.
But then he said that, ok, Dutas, messengers cannot be killed. He says, let us give him a lifelong memento, a painful memento. He says, burn his tail, so that he will, it will torment him for a long time while it is burning.
And after it is burnt, it will be something which everybody can see that he is tailless. And in that way, we will humiliate him, we will inflict pain on him now and humiliate him lifelong. So, then what happened? Hanuman’s, there is a tail, they said blazing.
But from a tail blazing action, Hanuman did a trail blazing action. Trail blazing. He just went around burning everything.
And Ravan was so shocked. He didn’t know. And finally, after setting almost half of Lanka on fire, Hanuman stood on the border wall of Lanka.
Now, he had to jump across to go back. So, when he stood on the border wall, his tail was behind him burning. And from there, he told him, he said, I am just one of the monkeys in Sugriva’s army.
And thousands and thousands of monkeys like this will soon come upon Lanka. And stronger than all those monkeys put together are Lakshman and Ram. If you do not return Sita, whole of Lanka will be destroyed.
And Hanuman just pressed down. Normally when you have to jump, you jump, you bend down and then you jump, spring up. So, when you bend down, the whole border wall that was there, just crumbled.
And it was a fearsome sight to see. It struck terror in the hearts of the Lanka citizens. And Hanuman jumped off.
And he flew back victorious. So, this was warning number which? Two. Then after that, the third warning was given by Vibhishan.
Now, when they came, Ram came with the warriors and they were going to cross Lanka. At that time, Vibhishan went and begged with Ram. He said, just return Sita.
You will save the whole Ravana dynasty. Now, at that time, what happens is that when we decide something, at that time, we have to, at one level, be open to taking inputs from others. So, he was initially called assembly.
And there he said, you know, our Lanka, which he thought was impenetrable, has been penetrated. What do you think we should do? He asked his assembly. And all the Rakshasas said, actually, this monkey caught us by surprise.
But next time if anybody comes, they will be in for surprise. There’s no need to worry. They all started praising each other.
Sometimes what happens? People live in what is called as echo chambers. Echo chambers means they only hear those people who echo what they say. They surround themselves by yes people, yes men, yes women.
And then they just think, oh, I’m right. I’m right. I’m right.
So Ravana was surrounded by yes men like that. That’s actually very dangerous. Now, of course, it’s not very pleasant to have people around us who disagree with us.
But if we drive or silence those who disagree with us, then what happens? We end up surrendering to our own mind. Because our mind gives us one picture of reality. And there might be another picture, but we just get no idea of that alternative picture.
That’s what happened to Ravana. So Vibhishan begged him. He said that Sita, the desire for Sita will destroy you.
And he told him, first he said that when the other Rakshasas said that we are just caught by surprise. No, he said. All our defensive arrangements were still as they were normally.
Still Hanuman came in. And not only that, we have already seen Ram’s power before at Janasthan. So it is best that you return Sita.
First Ravana thought about it. The next morning. So he said, OK, I adjourn this meeting.
We’ll meet tomorrow. Vibhishan gave this meeting. But what happened is when he went back, all the time Sita was there with him, but he could not touch, he could not unite with Sita because he had a curse and he forcibly violated a woman.
He would die. So night after night he would sleep with unsated desire. And that whole night of tossing and turning, trying to satisfy his desire and not satisfying it, that destroyed his intelligence.
The next morning, Vibhishan went early morning to meet Ravana. And Ravana did not even talk with Vibhishan. Vibhishan told him, I beg you, please, please return Sita.
He said, I’ll be humiliated if I return Sita. What I have possessed, I will never return. And then the next day in the court, Vibhishan took out his own crown and he said, if you think I’m selfishly motivated, you can reject me.
But please don’t reject my advice. He took out his crown and put it in front of Ravana’s foot. Please don’t destroy our dynasty.
And Ravana just kicked away the crown. At that time, the soul, the main voice of sanity that was there in his camp, he kicked him away. So Vibhishan not only went away from Ravana, but he went away from Lanka itself.
And thus he, at that point, more or less, he sealed his pact with death. So for all of us, there are people who disagree with us. And now some people, they just habitually disagree with us.
Whatever we say, they will say the opposite of that. And such people, there is no need to pay much attention to them. Because their point is not to what is the right way.
There are three kinds of vadas or discussions or debates. In Sanskrit it is said that is one of them is vithandam. Vithandam means what? That you don’t try to prove I am right.
Your purpose is only to prove that you are wrong. So whatever you say, I disagree with you. It is like that.
So now if there are people like that, we certainly have to neglect them. But if we know overall that somebody is intelligent, somebody is expert, somebody is our well-wisher, or at least they have acted favourably for us in the past, then to neglect and reject their advice is to surrender to the clutches of vice, surrender to our own mind. So for all of us, this principle that we actually need social feedback and constructive social feedback to function in life.
Say right now if I make a joke and nobody laughs, I wonder what happened. Or say if I am speaking and everybody starts looking at me as if they are watching a foreign language movie without subtitles. Then I start thinking what is happening.
So it is our feedback keeps us, the feedback that we get from others keeps us on track. Now if we have to alone keep ourselves on track, it is very difficult. Because our mind can come up with so many ideas.
This, this, this, this, this, this. It like sometimes some people they work on a browser and look at that there are 25 tabs open. And there 25 tabs are open and three of them are frozen.
And there is a loud music coming and they don’t know from which one it is coming. So our mind is like that. So many voices are coming from there.
And sometimes we just get stuck on one track. So it’s social feedback that at least rules out the unacceptable options. Now, of course, sometimes social feedback can go wrong also.
And that’s why we cannot just take anyone’s feedback. But the point is that if we don’t take any social feedback, then we just get lost inside our own mind. This is what unfortunately Ravan did.
We rejected the advice of Vibhishan. Then after that, so Vibhishan is warning number three. So I think we are going to, we’ll have, we’ll have to go a little fast for the remaining warnings.
But let’s look at this. After this, then when the Banaras built the bridge and crossed over, that itself was astonishing. How do they make a bridge like that? How do they cross over? So then he sent two of his spies, chief spies, to go into the camp of Ram and find out their main warriors, their strategies, their weapons.
So these two were, does anyone know their names? Shuka and Sarana. So Shuka and Sarana went in and they disguised themselves. But what happens? It takes one to know one.
So Vibhishan was on their side already. Vibhishan already surrendered to Ram. So Vibhishan spotted Shuka and Sarana.
And as soon as he spotted, these are spies coming dressed, appearing like monkeys. You are spying? He immediately pointed to the monkeys and the monkeys caught them. And all the monkeys were itching for war.
And the war had already started. So now they got these two people and started beating them. So they started beating them.
Sometimes what happens is that people just, some people just need to fight. Like in the end, Chaitanya Charita Amrita is described as Jagai and Madai. They are two villainous characters.
And when they would get angry, they would chase after people. And they would try to find someone to beat up. And all the people would run away.
And when they would have no one to beat up, they would beat each other up. They just fight and beat each other up. So anyway, the monkeys were beating up Shuka and Sarana.
And that time Ram heard the commotion and Ram came over there. He said, what’s going on? When he was explained, he just released them. He said, no, you come here.
If you have found enough information, it’s good. If you want to fight, look for whatever information you have. I’ll give you full facility.
And you go back to Ravan, tell him that all the anger and the agony that I have felt for months upon months because of your abduction of Sita, I will inflict a crushing defeat on you tomorrow when the war starts. Your only hope is if you return Sita. Now, by this time Shuka and Sarana had seen all the, most of the military formation, they went back terrorised.
And they said, there are so many monkeys in such power. And Ram has such power. He said that actually Sugriva’s power we saw, he alone is so powerful that he can destroy the best of the demons that we have.
And along so Hanuman is just Hanuman is very powerful, Sugriva is powerful, and many other demons are powerful. And Ram and Lakshman are incomparable. Please don’t fight with them.
And now these are his own spies giving him information. One of the words for the spying in English is intelligence. Intelligence.
We have our intelligence agencies who go and penetrate. Like recently there was a bomb, horrible bomb explosion in Sri Lanka in the churches. So the Sri Lankan intelligence was not very active.
But the Indian intelligence was active. And the Indian intelligence gave them some warnings. But they didn’t, they didn’t pay heed to it.
The point is this, when we get information from secret sources were infiltrated into somebody else’s camp, then that is the whole process called intelligence. Intelligence is based on information. So now it’s, it’s his own intelligence agencies telling him, don’t, don’t mess with them.
And he told them that because the monkeys bet you, so you become scared. I’m not going to be scared. Just dismissed what he said.
His own warriors. This was warning number four. Then that night itself, that night, Ram sent one more peace messenger.
Or an envoy, you could say. Who was that? Angad. That’s interesting.
Angad, when he came, he just jumped and then came there. And Angad told him that, no, you return Sita, otherwise you’ll be destroyed. And you return Sita honourably and we’ll go back without any bloodshed.
And he said, why should I listen to you? And he said, OK, if you think, I have such power that I can destroy all of you. OK, so let’s have a test of power. And Angad, he just came in the middle of the assembly and he put his, mounted his foot on the ground and said, let any of your warriors come and even just move my foot.
If they can catch my foot and move my foot, then we will accept defeat and go back. So all these warriors came one by one and they were trying to shake and shake and shake. And what happened? They shook, but the foot did not shake.
They got exhausted. And one by one, every single one of them. And finally, Ravan himself got up.
And Ravan came towards Angad. And as he came, bent down to catch Angad’s foot, Angad just moved back. And he said, if you want to catch anyone’s foot, go and catch Ram’s foot.
This is my challenge. It was for your warriors, not for you. And he said that he actually, as he moved back, he just moved his hand and knocked off Ravana’s crown.
Ravana’s crown fell down and he picked up the crown and just threw it away. And what had happened was, Vibhishan, when he had come over to Ram’s side, Ram had immediately done the coronation of Vibhishan. He said, you will be the king of Lanka.
Not you will be the king of Lanka. He said, you are the king of Lanka. You are coronated as the king of Lanka.
Now, when Ravan heard this, he was shocked. It’s like, say, you are the ruling head and somebody else is already appointed as the head. That means it’s clear that you are going to die.
And finally he dismissed it. One beggar is appointed, another beggar as the king. He dismissed it.
But what happened when Angad knocked the crown like that, the crown went to Ram, just flew it away, went to Ram and then Ram put it on the head of Vibhishan. So even before Ravan’s death, Ravan’s crown left him. So then Angad went back and said, you have till tomorrow morning to decide.
And again, before going, Angad said, actually, among all the monkeys in our army, I am the youngest. And you cannot move even my foot. What can you fight against all of us? This is a powerful, powerful demonstration.
And then that night, several of the elders from Lanka, they came and advised Ravan. He said that. So Malayavan was, had been the previous king of the demons and he was like an elder among them.
Malayavan said that, oh Ravan, the peace proposal has come from the enemy now. If you accept that proposal, it will be gracious for you. You will appear as if doing a favour.
There will be no loss of face for you. Just accept it. And he said, why should I accept it? Haven’t you heard the condition that they want me to return Sita? Now Malayavan told him, actually, for a king to desire a woman is not wrong, but a king is not alone.
He says, for one woman, if you want to destroy your whole kingdom, destroy all the citizens, all the warriors, he says that, is it worth it? Who says everything is going to be destroyed? I’m going to destroy. What can a war, what can a human wandering in the forest do to me? That was the time. First time, very forcefully, somebody from his own side tells him.
Ram is not an ordinary person. Ram is Vishnu descended to the world in the form that will destroy you. Now, of course, Vibhishan had told this, but Vibhushan, although he was of the same blood, but that mentality was so different that Ravan would take the practical military advice, but he would not take Vibhishan’s dharmic advice seriously.
He thought this is dharmic advice. So, but when Malayavan said this, he says, Vishnu has come to destroy you. And Ravan, he said, oh, Vishnu.
No, actually, I have defeated all the gods. Vishnu is only remaining. Ram is Vishnu and I’ll destroy him and I’ll become the conqueror of the whole world.
So that is stupidity to think that somebody can kill God. That is like thinking that they can spit at the sky. What happens if somebody spits at the sky? The spit comes back to them only.
So that is a stupid desire. And after that, another elder came, that was Mayadana. Now, Mayadana was the father of Ravan’s wife.
Who was Ravan’s wife? Mandodari. And when Hanuman had destroyed half of Lanka, Mayadana had used his architectural skills. He is the architect of the asuras.
Vishwakarma is the architect of the devatas. So Mayadana is the architect of the dhanavas. So he had reconstituted all of Lanka.
And he said, he came there and Ravan offered his respect because he was older. He said, I’m grateful to you. He says, I have come to ask you for a favour.
He says, whatever, ask me. He says, you have rebuilt Lanka and I’m indebted to you for that. He said, I’m begging you, please, don’t let my daughter become a widow.
What do you mean? He said, that if you fight this war, all of Lanka will be destroyed. He said, you think monkeys can destroy our army? He told him, those are not ordinary monkeys. He says, Sugriv is the son of the sun god, the son of the sun.
Then Angad is the grandson of Indra. Neel is the son of Agni. Mainda and Dvavida are the sons of Ashwini Kumaras.
Jambavan is the son of Brahma. Hanuman is the son of Vayu and an amsha of Shiva. So he said, even an army far more powerful than ours cannot fight against these gods.
Against so many of the gods altogether. Hanuman, Ravan, what was his reasoning? He said, the gods, they are so fearful of me that they are hiding from me in the form of monkeys. But now I will kill them.
So he just twisted everything for his own benefit. This is warning number? No, let’s go back. First was Maricha, second Hanuman, third Vishen, fourth Shuka and Sharana, yes.
Fifth, sixth, seventh, Mayadana. Yes, thank you. So then after that, the eighth warning came from Kumbhakarna.
Now Kumbhakarna, he was initially in the day when he had this big assembly. At that time, Kumbhakarna happened to be awake. Kumbhakarna came for the assembly.
And when Ravan asked, what should we do now? So Kumbhakarna said, oh Ravan, why are you asking for our advice now? You should ask for our advice before you abducted Sita. Now Ravan felt a little angry, but he didn’t want to antagonise Kumbhakarna. And Kumbhakarna said, although you made a big mistake, he said, you are fortunate that you have a brother like me.
I will protect you from the consequences of your mistake. But then after that, Kumbhakarna had gone to sleep. Now some people, they just, they can sleep through an earthquake.
And they just, they go to sleep. It’s almost like they go into some kind of Tamoguni trance. So Kumbhakarna was like that.
When he would go to sleep, he would go to sleep itself. But somehow, after great difficulty, he woke him up. And Kumbhakarna was so powerful that even the gods couldn’t fight against him.
And he went and attacked the Pandavas, Rama’s army, and they terrorised the Vanaras. And it’s interesting that when Kumbhakarna came out, normally when any warrior would come, they would open the Lanka’s gates and then they would come out. So then, but Kumbhakarna, he had to come out.
He was so big, they didn’t have to open the gate. He just climbed over the wall and came out. Climbed over the wall and then just seeing him, all the monkeys fell back in terror.
And then Ram came out to hear. Ram came, looked in that direction, saw the terrorised, heard the terrorised. He looked up and his eyes opened wide.
And Vibhishan was next to him. And he said, who is that? And Vibhishan said, that is my brother. That is my brother.
So then, but Ram fought with him and he completely overpowered Kumbhakarna. And when Kumbhakarna was killed, his head was knocked off and it went and fell right on one of the walls of Lanka and broke one of the walls of Lanka. His head itself was so big.
Now, Kumbhakarna had never been defeated before. That itself was another big, big warning. And when Kumbhakarna died, this could have been a very clear signal that warriors were almost as powerful as him if they were being overpowered.
That means it is very difficult for him to win. And after that, still he didn’t listen. Then he sent his own son.
Who was that? Indrajeet. And Indrajeet, he went and used all his celestial weapons against Lakshman and nothing happened. And then Indrajeet, he came back and he told his father, he said that I used the Pashupatastra, I used the Brahmastra, none of them could affect Lakshman.
He said that the only person who can counter this is Narayana. So he says not only Ram is Narayana, Lakshman also seems to be Narayana. He says double Narayana we have over here.
He says you cannot fight against them. So, sometimes in movies you have double roles. They are not double roles in the sense that they are not looking identical but they are two manifestations.
So then, now when he said, Ravana was so adamant, his own son is coming and telling him and he said that Indrajeet, if you have become scared of Lakshman’s power, then come and stay in the palace, I will go and kill them. Now Indrajeet was also a very honourable warrior. He said, father, I am not afraid of anyone.
I will die. But this war is pointless. I just come to tell you there is no point in fighting this war.
But if that is your desire, I will go. And when he died, that was the time. Now Mandodari, right from the beginning, had been telling Ram, just… Now Mandodari’s warning number? Ten, yes.
Telling him right from the beginning, right from the beginning only when Sita came. He told her, let her go. But at this particular point, he said that, oh my lord, he says, what? You have started a sacrifice.
And in that sacrifice, you are offering the Ahuti, the oblations of your own countless relatives, brothers, sons, citizens. And now finally, you have offered our son there. He says, how many offerings more will you put in this fire? He says, I cannot live without my son now.
If he is dead, you let me also die. And now Ravan was also shocked. He says, you killed our own son.
You sent him as a sacrifice. He says, please stop this war. Ravan also softened when he saw Hanuman’s body.
He says, please return Sita and end this war. And then Ravan said, if at all I had to return Sita and end this war, why did all our warriors die? He says, in the next world, when I meet all those warriors, what face will I show them? If they ask me, if you are going to return Sita, then why did you send us to death? Just see the twisted logic. He’s not thinking about what face he’s going to show to his citizens who are living right now.
He’s not thinking about how he’s going to face the enemy has to face right now. He’s thinking in the next life, how will I face the people who have died? So what happens? There was an American comedian. He said that I have already made up my mind.
Don’t confuse me with the facts. Well, how did you make up your mind? This is the fact that you’re going to make up the mind. So when he rejected Mandodari’s advice, then it was all over.
And finally, in the confrontation between Ravan and Ram, Ram killed Ravan. So for when Ram killed Ravan at that time or before that, practically all the war generals of Ravan had been killed. So for us, we all have certain things which we want very strongly.
And it’s not as I said right in the beginning, desires are not bad. But every desire has to be proportionate. Some people may want wealth.
Some people may want power. Some people want position. Some people want a particular relationship.
There are many things which we want and it’s not wrong to have desires. But desires have to be proportionate. See, all of us, who is the smallest over here right now? One, two, three, four.
Very small. Now, all of you, you have been smaller before also, isn’t it? You probably fit on your mother’s arm, hand practically. And even before that, every one of us was just a tiny cell originally.
Now we have millions of cells in our body. It’s growth. So growth is natural and desirable.
But cancer is also growth. Our cancer is disproportionate and destructive. So when one organ or one part of the body starts growing disproportionately, then that can destroy the whole body.
So like that all of us have desires. But if we let any desire become disproportionate, we let the desire become disproportionate, then it becomes a cancer. So for Ravan, the desire for Sita was like a cancer.
And that cancer, it destroyed his whole body, destroyed his whole kingdom. So whichever desires we have, we have to think what price is worth paying for this. I want this and it will be wonderful if I get it.
But sometimes we just get so obsessed that we lose all proportion. Just become completely oblivious to the costs, oblivious to what we are paid. So how do we avoid this? This is just actually throughout the class with the warnings that we got.
Through that we discuss that if we have a good social circle around us, if we use our intelligence, if we understand the nature of desire, from a snow paper it will become a boulder eventually. All this is there. But one broad principle is that we cannot reject desires, but we can select desires.
That means if I have this desire and I don’t want it, I want it, but I know it’s not good for me. Then if you stay battling at that level, it’s very painful. But instead of focussing on rejecting a particular desire, we select some other better desire and focus on nourishing that.
Saying no to anything is never pleasant. It creates a sense of deprivation. But if we learn to say yes to something better, then that focussing of energy on some healthier desire will enable us to say no without much difficulty.
Certainly some difficulty will be there, but it will not be that much. So we have to more than the whole point of this class is not that there are certain bad desires and we have to give them up. That’s true.
We need to take our unhealthy desires seriously, that they can have serious consequences. But more important is to have something worthwhile to say yes to and focus on that. And as we focus on saying yes to that, then the no automatically comes.
Say like if this glass now, suppose it were empty and it had air in it. If I want to remove air from it, I need to get a vacuum generating machine and suction machine and pull out all the air. But little misadjustment, little movement and it will become filled again.
Now, if there’s another one way to remove the air is to focus on removing the air. Another way is to just focus on filling it with water. If I fill it with water, automatically the air will go away.
So desires, even the dark desires within us, the destructive or disproportionate desires within us, they cannot be driven out, but they can be crowded out. If you fill our consciousness with healthier desires, with positive desires, the desires for that which is good, then the unhealthy desires will automatically go away. And the process of Bhakti Yoga enables us to cultivate healthy desire, the desire to chant, the desire to read Shastra, the desire to associate with devotees, the desire to do various services, desire to do even our jobs and our family responsibility as a service to Krishna.
When we have those healthier desires, then the unhealthier desires can be given away, given up. But we also need the reminder that these unhealthy desires need to be given up. And Ravana’s story provides us that reminder.
So I’ll quickly summarise. I spoke on this theme of how Ravana had ten heads, but zero brains. So I started by talking about how the there was the idea that the person’s skull size or head size or brain size determines the intelligence.
And that has been more or less proven to be wrong now. But so Ravana had ten heads, but the ten heads did not mean he had ten times intelligence. Actually, he had very little intelligence, especially with respect to that destructive desire.
His intelligence just didn’t work properly. And I talked about how he got ten warnings. Suppose somebody is going on a road, it’s a danger ahead, do not proceed.
And they keep just going, going, going, going, then they will be destroyed. So our desire sometimes pushes, pushes forcefully in a particular direction. But the desire is originally like a snow pebble.
It becomes a snowball and becomes a snow boulder. So if you understand how dangerous certain desires can be, then we can stop them in their snow pebbles itself. And the ten warnings that Ravana got were from whom all? First, Maricha, second, Hanuman, third, Vibhishan, fourth, Shuka and Sarana, fifth, Anga the sixth, Malevan seventh, Mayadana eight, Kumbhakarna’s death, ninth, Indrajit and tenth, Mandodari.
Yes, thank you. So through all these warnings, somehow he reinterpreted things to suit his own ideas. So those who opposed him just minimised or trivialised or rejected them.
And when we live in our own echo chambers, when we reject those who give us good advice, then we can hear only our mind’s advice. And that is a destructive advice. So Ravana’s eventual destruction, he courted it because of his rejection of not just the initial mistake, but it was the consistent rejection of advice that could help him to correct that mistake.
So we all commit mistakes at times. Of course, Ravana’s mistake was very serious. But we all commit mistakes.
But at least when we do course correction, we can minimise the consequence of the mistakes. And the focus in bhakti is not so much on rejecting desires, but by recognising the serious consequence of certain desires, we redirect the desire. Desires themselves are not bad.
They bring activity and motion in our lives, but the desire has to be proportionate. Growth is natural, but cancer is disproportionate and destructible. So some desires can become like cancer for us.
And to say no to them, we recognise the gravity of their consequence and then we redirect our energy towards unhealthy desires. And bhakti provides many healthy desires. The unhealthy desires cannot be driven out, but they can be crowded out.
As we cultivate the healthier desires for serving Krishna, the lower desires will automatically get crowded out. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
You said Hanuman is incarnation of Shiva, right? Yeah, Amisha of Shiva. Amisha of Shiva. So why did Ravana, see Ravana is so attached to Shiva, Lord Shiva.
So why didn’t he realise, you know, oh, this is my Lord who has come and warned me. So doesn’t he get that? OK, that’s a good question. Isn’t it that Shiva is so attached to Ravana? So if Hanuman is also Amisha of Shiva, then couldn’t he see that it is my own Lord has come to warn me.
As I said that some people, they are so caught in their own desires that they look at God not as a source of wisdom, but simply as a source of power. There is material religion and there is spiritual religion. Of course, in material also there can be sattva rajas tamas.
But the basic principle of material religion is that, oh God, let’s form a relationship. The terms of the relationship are my intelligence and your power. My intelligence and your power.
I want to do certain things. I can’t do them right now, but I want to do it. So you do it for me.
So such people, they see God more as a tool to an end rather than an advisor. So he did not see. So for him, although he worshipped Shiva, his motive in worshipping Shiva was not to please Shiva and certainly not to get advice from Shiva.
He wanted power from Shiva. And once he got that power, he didn’t care for it. So it’s why we go to some, why we go to someone also determines what we will take from them, what we will not take from them.
And another thing is that unless one has the right vision, one cannot understand that a particular devta or a particular devta has resented in a particular form, whether it appears to the Lord’s incarnations or even the devtas themselves. So when he heard this, he did not take it very seriously. And certainly he saw Hanuman more for his connection with Ram rather than his connection with Shiva.
So for him, Shiva was just a source of power, whom he would worship and get power from. See, whenever we see someone or see something, we can put them in different mental groups, different conceptual groups. Say, for example, if we are among Americans and then we see another Indian, we see one person is an Indian.
Oh, you’re an Indian. We put them in the group of Indians. But if you are among Indians, then we put people in the, oh, you’re a South Indian, you’re a Bengali, you’re a Gujarati, you’re a Punjabi.
So we put people in different groups at different times. And say, if we have had a quarrel with somebody who is, say, from a particular religion or particular region, a particular race, and then if we meet somebody from that background, this person might be very nice. But still, people from that group are like that.
So we carry our own biases. We don’t observe people in isolation. The world is so complex that unless we reduce the world to some conceptual categories, we can’t function.
Say, if I meet somebody from India, I might speak in Hindi. But if I’m going to meet somebody who’s American, I’ll speak in English. So for functional purposes, this kind of categorisation is required also.
But when we use this categorisation, that categorisation at one level can facilitate functioning. At another level, it can block our vision. So because his initial interaction with Hanuman was as a messenger of Ram, so you always saw Hanuman from that function, that categorisation.
He is a servant of Ram. Did not think of him as being Shiva. That point did not register within him at all.
Thank you. Any other questions? Yes, please. So is it something not to be thought of like that, that he actually gave a chance to be killed by all people, by Lord Ram so that they can at least get a sign that they can be just get free from birth and all that.
OK. Yeah, it’s interesting. So can we say that Ravan had the intelligence that, OK, all his demons, they all got killed by Ram.
So they all got sayujya mukti at least. See, there is there are two different things. One is there is there is a thoughtful action which leads to a good result.
And there is a thoughtless action which accidentally leads to a good result. Like some people, they are very good archers or they are good. They use a gun or they use an arrow and they practise, practise, practise and they shoot a target and they hit the bullseye.
So that is one way of hitting a target. The other is just first shoot and whatever it hits, say that was my target. So the second way, there is no way to miss the target.
Because whatever you hit, you will later say that it is the target. So sometimes some thoughtless actions might also lead to good results. But if that was not our intention, then we won’t get credit for doing that action.
That way, if we start seeing that we could say that if A kills B, then probably B had some bad karma because of which B was killed. So A may say I’m only giving you your karma. But is A authorised to give that karma? There is what is called vigilante justice.
Vigilante means people who take the law in their own hands. Sometimes the state after due trial may give capital punishment to someone. But if a citizen takes the law in their own hands, then the citizen becomes culpable.
So even at least in the case of vigilante justice, that person is thinking, this person has done all these wrongs and the state is not able to punish, so I will punish. But in the case of Ravana, it was nothing like that. It was simply his desire.
His desire for Sita, that was the whole impetus for the war. So he was not thinking in any way of benefiting any of his citizens, any of his warriors. In fact, Ram, after every night, whichever, if the monkeys would be killed, Ram would stay awake late into the night and personally perform all the last rites for the monkeys who had died.
On the other hand, Ravana had given a standing instruction that all the Rakshas would die. Just pick up their bodies and throw them far into the ocean. Why? He heard that then the next morning when the Vanaras come to fight, they will see that there are no Rakshas who are dead and they will become demoralised.
So he literally, literally did what? Use and throw. You talk about use and throw culture today. So he literally did use and throw.
So he had no desire to think of anyone else’s well. That was not even in his mental radar, anywhere in the corner also. Okay, thank you.
Any other questions? Anybody else? Last one. Yes, please. Okay.
Is it true that Ravana had immense knowledge? Yes, definitely. Ravana has composed for the praise of Lord Shiva called Astha Surya Sutra which is called as Ravana Stuti. It is not the praise of Ravana.
It is praised by Ravana. And even now if you go to Kashi Vishwanath temple, the Kashi Vishwanath deity is here. On the opposite side, Ravana Stuti is written over there.
So he certainly had a lot of learning. And also some people say that he was a Brahmana. And okay, it’s not that simple because these lineages become a little complicated.
He came from a Brahmana dynasty. He was Vishrava. The sage Vishrava was his, Vishrava or Pulasthi? Actually that whole lineage was there.
So he came from a lineage of Brahmanas. But because just like if the mother and the father are from two different lineages, then the child who is born, child can either have prominently the characteristics of the mother’s side or the father’s side. So although his father was a sage, now he had been seduced by a Rakshasa woman.
She wanted a progeny from him. And so then when Ravana was born, he primarily had the Rakshasa characteristics. Because what had happened was, although it was a sage who had fathered him, but it was, the whole thing was not done in proper consciousness.
And it was, so he was basically, he had demonic mentality. So he was from a Rakshasa lineage, but he never, he was from a Brahmana lineage as well as a Rakshasa lineage. And he got the characteristics of the Rakshasa lineage primarily.
So he certainly had knowledge. But he did not have knowledge about the purpose of knowledge. It is, that is the most important thing.
So we can get a lot of knowledge, but if somebody doesn’t have the knowledge of the purpose of knowledge, then they can actually become very dangerous. If somebody is ignorant, they can’t do much. They can’t do much harm also.
If somebody has medical knowledge, then they can actually find, no, if somebody has medical knowledge but does not have compassion, doesn’t have the desire to heal people, then what happens is, they can actually, they can either complicate people’s diseases, or they can even steal organs while they are treating somebody. They can even kill someone. They can, in a cold-blooded way.
Actually, if you see the civilisation which caused the greatest deaths, sometimes you think of First World War, Second World War or now terrorism, it’s a great big danger. Maximum deaths happened in the last century in Nazi Germany, then the communist regimes in China. Almost 100 million people were killed in Russia as well as China, which is more than both the World Wars combined together.
And both these countries were very scientifically advanced. Even Germany was scientifically advanced. So there’s knowledge, but there was no virtue.
There was no understanding of the purpose of knowledge. So then what happens is, such people can become very dangerous. So Ravan had a lot of knowledge, but there was no understanding of the purpose of knowledge.
And because of that, he abused all this knowledge. Ravan was from North India. OK, I was in South India, I was giving a class on Ramayana and after that one person came to me and says, I am from the RPC.
I said, what is RPC? He said, Ravan Protection Committee. I said, what is that? In the Ramayana itself, Ravan died. How are you going to protect him? So he said that actually, what has happened is there have been a lot of vested interests who have tried to reinterpret the whole Ramayana in their own ways.
There is a Jain Ramayana. Jains are very nice people in many ways. In fact, culturally we are quite similar to them and no criticism on them.
But there is some person who wrote a Jain Ramayana, some Jain scholar. And what they have done is, throughout the Ramayana, when Ram goes to the forest, he is meeting Jain sadhus. And at the end, when Sita enters into the earth, Ram becomes enlightened and becomes a Jain.
So what happened, these traditional epics, they have been reinterpreted by people according to their own vested agendas. So there have been some people who wanted to split India into, say, southern and northern people. So what has happened, they have tried to reconfigure the Ramayana as an attack by the North Indians and the South Indians.
So now what has happened is, they say that Ram was Aryan and Ravan was a Dravidian. So they tried to reconfigure it like that. Now actually speaking, first of all, we can look at it in two different ways.
One is, let’s look at it literally from the Ramayana’s perspective. Then we can look at it from a historical perspective. If we want to take it literally from the Ramayana’s perspective, Ravan was a Rakshasa.
And the Rakshasas are entirely different species. You know, to associate the Rakshasas with Dravidians is an insult to Dravidians. You know, it’s a big, big insult to associate the two together.
And it’s described that actually Lanka was the kingdom of Kubera. And he conquered it from him. Now the Rakshasas live at different places, wherever they grab power and they get power.
So in that sense, to say that he’s a South Indian is wrong because he was from a different species itself. Now if somebody doesn’t want to accept the idea that, oh, some people say that, the Ramayana is true, but all this idea of Rakshasas and Vanaras, this is mythology. So, OK, somebody says, OK, Ravan was there itself.
Even if for argument’s sake, accept that like that, that argument. But still, the point is, there was no geographical consideration in that attack. If you want to configure South Indian and North Indians, then the Vanaras, they were South Indians.
Kishkindha is definitely not a North India. So it’s not an attack of North Indians or South Indians. So basically what has happened, that narrative was there, that there are North Indians and South Indians.
Now there are different ways to try to counter that narrative. So there is another historian who has tried to problematise that narrative. This is actually not a conflict between North Indians and South Indians because Ravan was also North Indian.
So what happens once you start getting into that frame of reference, it’s very important to put the Ramayana in the right frame of reference. Basically, the Ramayana is not regional. It is not a regional conflict.
It is an ethical conflict. And it is primarily, it is ethical lessons that have to be, ethical and spiritual lessons that have to be learned from it. So if you keep the focus on that, then that is the best.
But sometimes some people try to reinterpret everything in their own ways. So it’s best to, not necessarily we reject those interpretations, but we don’t highlight those interpretations. We understand where those interpretations are coming from.
And then that is not the way the Ramayana has been historically understood. And that is not the Ramayana that has inspired billions of people. How much do you see Ramayana has caused conflict between North Indians and South Indians? See, it is among South Indians also.
There are so many Ramayana commentary that have been written. There is the Kamba Ramayana, there is Ananda Ramayana. And there is so many commentators, they have written so much about the Ramayana.
So this idea of the South Indian, North Indian conflict, this is primarily a leftist, Anglican kind of reinterpretation for breaking India, you could say. So you don’t have to give too much credit to that. Thank you.
Thank you very much.