Redirecting our desires and our speech towards Krishna

[Bhagavatam class at ISKCON, Houston, USA]

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
and the Gita invites all of us to become leaders of that calibre thank you and he was sharing about his vision especially of the restaurant that is going to open have a grand opening today so we just had a very wonderful talk and I was inspired to see the vision for customised outreach according to the time place circumstance I feel very inspired to be here amongst this vibrant devotee community and I’ll try to serve by speaking briefly on this topic of spiritualising our activities this I’ll take this discussion in three parts first I’ll talk about the what Srila Prabhupada says in the Purport that how this is materialist attracted to something devotee is attracted to Krishna according so what is it that misdirects and how we can redirect that I’ll talk in the first part then I’ll talk about specifically the redirection of speech that is the theme of this particular verse and then I’ll talk about the various levels of various ways in which we can redirect our speech in the service of Krishna so the first part the Bhagavad Gita is a book of integration the first part is how we get misdirected and how we can redirect ourselves so Krishna Arjuna begins with the dialectic that you know okay there is work and there is renunciation action and renunciation he thinks I have to give up action so that I can attain liberation but the Bhagavad Gita offers integration that rather than renunciation of action the Bhagavad Gita recommends renunciation in action act in a renounced mood and in that renunciation action grows into action with devotion by the end of the Gita so 18.46 Krishna says by your work worship the Lord so the there is the bhakti there is the karmi there are three broad strands of thought karma, jnana and bhakti and these are actually not just within the Vedic cultural or philosophical context they are universal that karma basically is the idea of romanticising this world oh this world is such a wonderful place I’m going to enjoy it’s like people who have romantic dreams they think if I just find the right partner then I’ll be happy yes so the idea is just think of something needs to be adjusted then life is going to become wonderful so that is the idea of the karmis towards the world in general the jnanis are basically frustrated so some people that one relationship doesn’t work out two relations you don’t work out and they say I’ll never get into any relationship so they everybody is deceptive nobody is trustworthy just so the jnanis they demonise the world this world is a place of entanglement just get out of it stay away from it the bhakti approach is don’t romanticise don’t demonise utilise the world utilise in the service of Krishna so whatever is usable we use it in Krishna’s service and so if we have too much of the romanticised idea of the world then we get caught in trying to pursue happiness in this world and on the other hand if we demonise the world too much then we can’t serve in this world we can’t perform bhakti we can’t do any responsible activities in the world in the Uddhava Gita Krishna tells us that a devotee should be naati sakto naati nirvinno not be too attached not be too averse in a balanced way practise bhakti this same approach how do we how can we balance this so Krishna tells in the Bhagavad Gita 10.41 that yad yad vibhuti mad sattvam shri madhur jitame bhava tattva deva gacchattvam mama tejo anshu sambhava so he says everything that is attractive in this world it manifests a spark of my splendour now what this means is that actually Krishna is not rejecting this world as false as illusion as maya he’s telling it there are attractive things in this world is not simply dismissing the attractive things of this world as maya he’s saying they are attractive but they manifest only a spark of my splendour so if there if we’re in a dark place and there somewhere we see a spark a spark of light a spark of fire that will give us some illumination and naturally we’ll gravitate towards that illumination but how much light how much warmth can a spark actually provide so Krishna doesn’t tell us that you have to reject the attractive things of this world rather he says connect the attractive things with the source okay if this thing is so attractive and it is just a spark then how much more attractive Krishna will be how much more attractive how much more brilliant Krishna will be so in that way if we just look at the attractive things of this world and we get captivated then we then we can’t connect with Krishna but if we reject the attractive things of this world entirely then we also miss out on a way to connect with Krishna so if our own Krishna connection is strong then even the attractive things of this world can remind us of Krishna so yesterday Advai Chandra Kovar had taken me to NASA and as I was saying it’s a at one level it’s a brilliant testimony to human intelligence the whole space programme the whole scientific endeavour now sometimes at one level we say okay all science is illusion science is maya and we may demonise science but if you look at the founding principles Newton he famously said that oh father I think thy thoughts after thee so the brilliance of science is founded on the brilliance of God in designing the world if the world had not been made in an orderly way there would have been no science at all so we don’t have to see science and it’s brilliant as a competitor to God it can become if people become infatuated by science and think oh science will solve all our problems then there is romanticisation with science oh everything all you know we will we will make life and people immortal we’ll cure all diseases we’ll solve all problems that romanticisation is bad but demonization we don’t have to present scripture or spirituality as a competitor to science by positioning scripture as a competitor to science we devalue scripture because scripture science is basically a tool for functioning in this world scripture tells us about how to go beyond this world how to raise our consciousness how to attain God while functioning in this world we may use various tools so the demonization of science means that all science is bad all science is atheistic all science is speculation that is a demonised attitude the utilisation is okay a science is a tool which is influential in this world so we can use it both for practical and philosophical purposes practically we can use the products of science that is technology for doing our services for sharing Krishna’s message and philosophically we can show how spiritual principles are ultimately also scientific so this attitude of yukta vairagya this attitude of utilisation if we have then we can function smoothly in this world that if we are too attached or too averse we will get deviated from Krishna attachment and aversion are both manifestations of self-centredness when I’m attached to something this will give me so much enjoyment so I want it when I am when I am averse oh this is not giving me enjoyment this is causing me trouble therefore I’ll stay away from it where is the Krishna element over there so Krishna consciousness means we go beyond attachment and detachment we focus on how I can serve Krishna the best.
Raga dvesha vimukta is to Krishna’s 2.64 go beyond attachment and aversion and this if we have this mood then we can actually become inspired by anyone and everyone so here the example is given that just as materialistic people talk about worldly pleasure a devotee talks about Krishna so here rather than condemning materialistic yes their obsession with worldly enjoyment is putting them in illusion but we can actually take inspiration from that if they are so attracted by this how much more I should be attracted to Krishna who is actually the source of the attractiveness of whatever they are attracted to sense gratification and the objects that you sense gratification they manifest only a spark of Krishna’s splendour so if people are so attracted to that how much more should I get attracted to Krishna who is the source of everything Rupa Goswami says that yuva teenaam yatha yuva naam cha yuva teenaam yatha yuva naam cha yuva naam cha yuva teenaam yatha mano bhiram te tatra mano bhiram taam churi he’s praying to the Lord that my dear Lord just as a boy is attracted to a girl and a girl is attracted to a boy similarly let my mind be attracted to you so if we become attracted the way materialistic people are attracted material things then we go into illusion but if we have enough philosophical perspective then by seeing how they are attracted to materialistic things we can become inspired to become attracted towards Krishna. Bhaktivinoda Thakur says that by seeing how hard materialistic people work for their own material aggrandisement as a devotee should work that hard for Krishna’s service. Ravapad writes in the parakord over here we have the word kama sometimes we give it a lot of bad press.
Kama means lust or sensual desire but the word kama basically refers to desire. Krishna also said dharma aviruddha bhuteshu kamosu so I am the desire that is not contrary to dharma. In the Bhagavatam also it is said when Yudhishthira Maharaj’s rain is being described.
So that the earth was fulfilling all desires and actually the rain is the means by which desires are fulfilled. The fulfilment of desires is not considered wrong in fact kama is one of the four purusharthas and kama is not such sensual desire it is actually overall the desiring faculty of the human being. So we all have desires and we are not meant to kill desires we are meant to cure desires.
So we have a natural desire to speak and we are not meant to curb that. We are meant to use our speech for serving Krishna. So just as materialistic people keep talking talking talking sometimes if we go on some newspaper websites or some sometimes some article has 100 comments 500 comment 1000 comments 5000 comments.
I know people just there are internet can be good it can be bad but people have so much we could say the urge to speak that is being expressed over there. So as devotees it’s not that we are meant to give the urge to speak. Mauna is a virtue for those who are just talking nonsense but for a devotee better than mauna is talking about Krishna.
Krishna katha gaayana thinking about Krishna and the speciality of bhakti is that it offers us sensory spirituality. Normally spirituality is said to be we have to give up the senses. We have to give up it’s an engagement with the senses.
But Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita in 5.11 he says kaayena manasa buddhya kevalair indriyair api yoginah karma kurvanti sangham tyakto atma shuddhaye This is the yogis atma shuddhaye they engage in purification with their body kaayena manasa mind budhya intelligence and even kevalair indriyair api even with the senses. So the magic of bhakti is that the very thing that is the cause of entanglement can become the vehicle for liberation. The senses are normally considered the causes of entanglement but those very senses can become the vehicle to liberation.
The more we use our senses to serve Krishna the more we can go closer towards Krishna the more we can liberate it from material existence and so the basic desire that we have we don’t have to give it up. We don’t even have to give up our senses but we just have to change the way we direct our senses and the senses when used in Krishna’s service can bring immense fulfilment and among all the senses okay with our eyes we take darshan of Krishna that brings us satisfaction. It’s beautiful, it’s pacifying, it’s purifying, it’s uplifting but among the various if I hear about Krishna that benefits me but among all the senses the tongue is the sense which if we use for Krishna it benefits not only it benefits others also.
By hearing about Krishna I’m setting a good example others may also hear but hearing my hearing about Krishna doesn’t directly benefit others but my using my tongue in Krishna’s service that benefits not only me that benefits others also. This is the distinctiveness of the process of bhakti that it not only reinvents those things which are ways to liberation, ways to bondage, ways of liberation but also helps pave the way for others liberation. Now how do we do this? Okay how do we redirect our desires from the world towards Krishna? For this for such redirection we need to understand how our desires work.
Now our desires are not just linear they are also triangular. Now linear desires means that okay I see an object and I desire so the object is there I am here and I desire the object Shri Radha, Neelamadu, Bhadwanaki. So I see an object and I desire it that is linear desire.
Now some desires are linear say for example a piece of delicious food item oh that’s nice I want it that’s how desires are but many cases desires are also triangular. Say for example a new model of a smartphone comes up and then you know there are so many models of smartphone which come but then we see someone maybe we see a commercial somebody says this smartphone this feature that feature this is so good or then some of me see some friends talking about the smartphone then just by seeing that they talk about the smartphone they speak about it they parade it to others and by seeing them engage with that smartphone you know we get the desire for that smartphone. In fact all the in advertisements it is not just the product that is advertised actually the endorser who is the star the sports star or movie star whoever it is that’s endorsing that’s what actually sells the product much more than the product’s virtues.
So what is happening over here that it is our desire is not just linear by seeing the phone we may or may not get the desire but by seeing someone who has a desire for the phone we get that desire when they rave about the phone let me try this out so our desires grow triangularly also not just linearly by seeing the object but by seeing those who are enjoying that object and this principle applies especially for bhakti because in material life we all have already some experience and some memory of sense indulgence and that’s why whenever we see sense objects the desire naturally awakens but with respect to krishna bhakti if somebody sees the bhagavad-gita somebody sees the bhagavatam how many people are just by seeing the bhagavad-gita seeing shastra get the desire to study shastra maybe somebody is very philosophically minded they will get the desire but if they meet a devotee whose love shastra and the devotees speak such wonderful realisations based on shastra and you can see this dude is in love with shastra then by that association they start thinking i thought i knew bhagavad-gita but i don’t i think i don’t know bhagavad-gita let me see what is there in it and in that way by that association of those who are attracted to shastra our attraction to shastra comes similar with respect to deity worship we may come to the temple and just bow down many times pious people come to the temple and they bow down and they don’t even notice what deity is there over there just think temple is a place where somebody is there you go and bow down but it is if they associate with those who are devoted to the deities and a whole new universe opens they don’t just see the the figure on the altar simply as a person to bow down and pray to they see that this is the lord with whom i can do develop a personal relationship i can serve him i can dress him i can bathe him it’s a whole new universe that opens when we associate with those who have a desire to serve krishna so in bhakti this vital for our spiritual growth spiritual growth essentially centres on the growth of our spiritual desire so that is when you get desire for me you will attain me and how will we get the desire for krishna that is by associating with those who have the desire for krishna in one lecture shilprabhupada translates there is 2.62 63 so this in the context of the gita it means by attach from attachment strong desire karma infatuation comes that’s what sangha means but prabhupada in one lecture says that this can also mean association from association desire come so here there’s this scriptural vindication of this point of the triangularity of desires our desires grow not just by associating with krishna or the objects that manifest krishna they grow by associating with those who are attracted to that so whichever limb of bhakti we wish to improve whether it is chanting or studying scripture or doing services cooking worshipping deities whatever it is if you want to grow in that we need to associate with those who have the desire for that manifestation of krishna and from that we will get the desire so here the theme is speaking about krishna so if you associate with devotees who have a desire to speak about krishna and who who speak about krishna enthusiastically with realisation with then our desire will grow and when that happens actually people’s life becomes transformed especially now when they are the bhakti bhakti or any kind of model that people are encouraged to speak about krishna see as long as we are hearing about krishna we are we remain guests to the philosophy as soon as we start speaking about krishna we become hosts to the philosophy and that is a very significant step forward just like in the temple now sometimes we come to the temple and then if you’re coming for the first time devotees welcome us and that’s good at least so many people are wandering in so many different places it is someone is coming to the temple that’s very good but then if they like the temple and then they invite their friends to come to the temple they say okay this is here this is here this is here what has happened they have now become hosts to the temple and once they become hosts then their connection with krishna becomes much stronger so just as this can happen culturally with respect to temple it can happen intellectually with respect to the philosophy once we start speaking the philosophy we shift from being guests to hosts and the connection with krishna develops much much more through that so if people are sharing about krishna with others then that indicates a significant increase in their level of connection and commitment to krishna and the third point that’s my mind to speak about is now what does speaking about krishna mean so speaking about krishna means that we speak in a way that attracts people to krishna every activity that we do it has a purpose so if we are in the association of devotees we speak about krishna simply to relish krishna we share with others how we are relishing krishna and they share with us how they are relishing krishna and krishna talks about this in 10.9 in the bhagavad-gita when he says so at that time krishna says that these devotees they enlighten each other about now this bodhayantaha enlightened very significant word because krishna is talking about people who are already enlightened the previous verse talks about buddha people have already become buddha they’re already enlightened so at that time so what what is krishna talking about if they’re already enlightened how can they enlighten each other shila prabhupada speaks in lecture that no krishna is unlimited so although devotees know krishna still they can always keep knowing krishna so when we associate with devotees now we appreciate krishna from our cultural perspective our intellectual perspective our psychological perspective and other devotees appreciate krishna from other perspective and if we can if our if our minds match we are like-minded then we can expand that our appreciation for krishna so speaking about krishna is for devotees a way of spiritual sharing with each other deepening our appreciation about krishna and when we are speaking with new people that time also we can speak about krishna but the purpose is to attract them towards krishna and sometimes when we we may have to speak in a way that is appropriate for them so i recently met shila prabhupada disciple he told me that my prabhupada would go for morning walks in america he would not greet people as hari krishna just say good morning now prabhupada when he was in india always hari krishna but here people not only understand hari krishna they will not be able to understand it so the point is if you agree the point of greeting is what the point of greeting is to actually have a cordial reciprocation with them so he spoke in a way he was always speaking about krishna but the point is at that time he could say hari krishna but prabhupada would often in the morning walk say good morning because if people say oh these are cultural people then they are greeting nicely then they may become more open to exploring so speaking about krishna doesn’t necessarily speaking about krishna always doesn’t necessarily have to be explicitly speaking about krishna it is about speaking in a way that attracts people to krishna sometimes it happens that now we speak about krishna in a way that simply scares people it’s like i remember one of the first when i was working in a company i used to travel by bus to the company and i would one hour was there so i would usually read or i would chant and one colleague asked me what what do you do and then for the next one hour i was downloading the whole philosophy you know like you know there’s a bhagavad-gita six day seven day course i concentrated that in the 45 minutes and i thought you know i had done such a good job i had spoken so expertly but you know after that whenever i would enter that bus you know he would go and sit at the opposite side of the bus so then after many years i realised that actually after many months actually i realised that it was just a simple social enquiry see a social enquiry is different from a philosophical enquiry a social enquiry is simply you know what are you doing philosophical enquiry is something much different and the tone the mood setting all of that is different so we don’t have to for we are naturally want to speak about krishna but speaking about krishna is for helping people to come closer to krishna shila prabhupada says that his purports are his devotional ecstasies now sometime shila prabhupada is just talking about social commentary in his purports they first came under the purport they described about how arjuna was carrying a when krishna was departing from hastinapur to go to dwarka there arjuna was carrying umbrella as a shade and as a crown for krishna and they were so the verse is very devotional and the purport is basically prabhupada says you know how there was this golden umbrellas there’s so much prosperity at that time and now there is so much scarcity and therefore materialism essence gratification godlessness are bad so you say actually the verse is so devotional and the purport seems to be so actually so polemic you’re just condemning material civilisation so what is the devotional ecstasy over here shila prabhupada’s purports are his devotional ecstasy what does that mean you know devotional ecstasy is not just that which gives us ecstasy it is that which gives krishna ecstasy and what gives krishna ecstasy is if he sees people souls who are lost coming towards him so shila prabhupada simply he wanted to speak about krishna yes krishna in vrindavan krishna’s past and hence on he could have done that in vrindavan itself shila prabhupada travelled all over the world and wrote his books to remove the misconceptions that block people from coming to krishna so shila prabhupada spoke that which was necessary at his time for getting people to come closer to krishna so shila prabhupada’s purpose as devotional ecstasy in what sense they may not be always talking about krishna explicitly but the social analysis that he does the polemics that he uh the polemics means the countering of the other philosophies that he does all that is what he is removing obstacles misconceptions so the souls are here krishna is here so we can just speak about krishna but how will people connect with that there are some things which disconnect people which block people from coming towards krishna so prabhupada is speaking about those things so that he can remove the obstacles on the path of people to come close to krishna so the whole idea is when we speak about krishna it may be directly about krishna it will be indirectly about krishna the point is we need to help people come closer to krishna so anantamma prabhu is has gone communication director so he was telling me that that last year when i had met him in washington once prabhupada went for a morning walk and he came back and the devotees had a temple on one side and on the other side there was an old woman who was staying and prabhupada as he came back from the morning walk he just went there and just talked with her and the devotees were thinking you know when will she talk when prabhupada talk about krishna talk about krishna the devotees had tried to preach to her but he said she was a 60 70 year old lady and these boy these people just look like hippies she just couldn’t connect with them and then prabhupada he spent almost 20 minutes with her and he just did not speak anything about krishna it was just plain old people talk how is your health what is this happening how many just casual social enquiry and then when prabhupada came back the devotees asked prabhupada you know you did not talk about krishna prabhupada said you know old people sometimes get lonely so i just gave her some company can you imagine prabhupada is a mahabhaga and what is he thinking old people get lonely but sometimes what happens is he concluded this point sometimes the transcendental can blind us to the human our spirituality is meant to expand our humanity not replace our humanity humanity means at a human level we need to be sensitive culture we speak appropriately according to time place circumstance and our spirituality is meant to expand it so there may be other people also good human beings who may care for others talk gently devotees do that and devotees do more devotees do that and devotees do more actually prabhupada was asked now how do we know your disciples prabhupada could have said they chant hare krishna all the time but prabhupada said my disciples are perfect gentlemen they’re perfect ladies and perfect gentlemen now what does that mean that means their conduct is a way is such that other people can appreciate it so once people appreciate that then they will appreciate even the devotional aspect that we speak so speaking about krishna means speaking in a way that attracts people to krishna and when we do that then we ourselves become attracted to krishna and we inspire others also to become attracted to krishna and this is a way in which we can actually spiritualise our senses we can experience krishna most powerfully through speaking about him through seeing how the message of krishna transforms our heart and transforms others out i’ll summarise i spoke on the theme of three points i spoke primarily i spoke about how bhakti is not about rejection but about redirection this there is the karmis who then you might remember what do they do with the world they romanticise the world i just add just a few things and i’ll become happy the gyani is thinking this world no happiness at all they demonise the world but devotees utilise the world so we don’t reject the attractive things of this world but we see them as sparks and krishna is the whole so science is one attractive thing in this world we don’t reject it rejected as atheistic or demoniac or godless we see it that this is a manifestation of one spark of the intelligence that god has and we become attracted to krishna’s intelligence we don’t position scripture as a competitor to science rather we can see science as a pointer to god and to the spiritual truths revealed by scripture and for this redirection we talked about how bhakti is the process of sensory spirituality the same senses that are the causes of bondage are redefined bhakti as the vehicles to liberation and among all the senses the speech is the most efficacious in the sense that if we spiritualise our speaking forward we not only attract ourselves to krishna but we attract others also to krishna and for this spiritualization of our desires and our senses what we need is association that our desires are not just linear but also triangular by associating with those who are attracted to krishna we become attracted to krishna just as in the material world there are endorsements by vips that sell products so like that when we see devotees who are attracted to shastra we become attracted to shastra and similarly with other manifestations of krishna and lastly i concluded about when we say we should speak about krishna redirect our speaking power towards krishna what does that mean with devotees we discuss about krishna directly and we appreciate krishna from different perspectives so krishna’s glories can enlighten even the enlightened that’s the theme from 10.8 and 9 but while you’re speaking with new people speaking about krishna means speaking that which will attract them towards krishna so prabhupada spoke directly about krishna on occasions prabhupada greeted people just by saying good morning or prabhupada spoke about things which were obstructing people from coming to krishna and help them remove their misconceptions so when we instead of seeing speaking about krishna simply as direct overdose of proselytising we see it as cultured behaviour gentlemanly behaviour by which we can attract people to enquire about krishna then we can transform our lives and we can transform inspire others to transform their lives by the potency of bhakti thank you very much do we have time for any questions okay is so generally we don’t go into those discussions so so the topic of today’s verse is about how people are attracted to women and this is a volatile topic in today’s world related with say feminism and how women women want equal rights or more rights whatever and at the same time some devotees feel that we should oppose against this while others say that ultimately we’re not the body of the soul so what is it difference does it make whether we are men or women this is a complex topic and we have to i’ll talk about three main things here see first is there is bhakti which is spiritual and then there is varanashram which is social which is conducive to bhakti now at one level bhakti is transcendental it has got nothing to do with the body and nothing to do with anything related with the body means anybody with any kind of body any kind of social situation they can practise bhakti and they can become elevated so bhakti is spiritual and whatever it is in this world say gender roles or gender relationships ultimately that’s a material interaction so the point is that the spiritual the spiritual should be made as easy as possible for people or to put it another way the spiritual should not be made more difficult than it is necessary so for example i’ll give example say prabhupada often talks about farm communities and in today’s world we talk about it today’s language we talk about it eco-friendly living so now it’s very good to live in farms to live eco-friendly at the same time that is not necessary for the practise of bhakti if somebody has lived since their childhood in cities and we tell them if you have to practise bhakti you have to give up all technology go in the villages and then chant Hare Krishna you will save time you’ll be peaceful you can practise bhakti so peaceful they will not be peaceful there they’ll be more agitated there oh i don’t have warm water i don’t have this i don’t have i don’t have those many things so the point is that for them bhakti is much easier to practise in cities bhakti can be practised in cities also so there are maybe other people from cities itself who may be fried out with city life and we tell them about traditional living rural living and they’ll be delighted and they will embrace it so the point of varanashram is not to divide society into particular classes you know this person belongs to this class or this person has this role the point of varanashram is to make people’s material life conducive to their spiritual growth so the idea is that everybody has to face problems in the material world but varanashram varanashram’s expertise is that it allocates to people the kind of problems they like to face that means if there’s a brahmana if you tell a brahmana you know there is a which says that if you have to lie for a higher cause you know that is acceptable now the brahmanas are very good brahmanas do research and find not only verses from the bhagavatam from other scriptures they will find and give so many support but if somebody’s of vaisya mentality you tell them find a verse there are thousands of verses in the bhagavatam where will i find a verse like this anyway you give the class without the verse who will notice it and so for the brahmana for the vaisya that is a burden but on the other hand if you tell a vaisya that we have to raise 10 million dollars because we want to build a big temple then now i have something to do you know i’m just sitting and hearing what is this i have nothing to do now i bought something if you tell a brahmana now we have to raise 10 million dollars we have to build a temple after building the temple you want to talk about krishna so talk now what is the big deal so the point is that in varanashram the expertise is to allocate the people the kind of problems they like to face so same way with respect to gender roles what applies to varanashram there also applies to gender roles see the point is that if some women have been brought up in the mould of a of a traditional female role that they don’t have to be forced out of that role in the name of bhakti if some women prabhupada with respect to women in india when he was in india no he appreciated women who were doing the traditional roles but in his america he saw that many of his disciples were very resourceful and he engaged them in ways in which women were not traditionally engaged so the idea is whatever kind of psychological disposition people have developed by their upbringing by their culture we see that as a take-off point for their bhakti not that they have to go from that psychological disposition to some entirely different psychological disposition then you know what happens by that is that becomes so difficult for them that bhakti becomes inaccessible so we should never position bhakti for or against any social movement directly yes there are certain social movements which are favourable certain social movements which are unfavourable but we don’t have bhakti is not intrinsically for or against bhakti is transcendental and within certain social movements some things may be favourable within certain social moments something may be unfavourable you know prabhupada talked about spiritual communism when he was talking about while attracting people towards in india the socialist communist influence was there and prabhupada spoke about spiritual communism but in today’s world we see that communism has not worked very well and often it is the democratic countries where we have greater facility to practise bhakti so circumstantially we may position bhakti this way or that way but prabhupada is open prabhupada engaged with democratic leaders he talked about say uh talked about uh monarchy divine monarchy in his books but he was ready to engage with democratic leaders he went out of his way to Indira Gandhi he met people who were political leaders so the point is the material we have to see whatever is engageable krishna’s service we engage accordingly so the the principle with respect to with respect to with respect to women’s engagement in society in in the bhakti vokshna society is that you know it is uh it is best not to label it in terms of any social movement it’s not that if a devotee woman is doing some special some services it’s not that immediately she becomes a feminist or it is not that just because the devotee woman is not doing a particular role that’s why she’s a traditionalist the point is how can everyone serve krishna the best so say maybe in some parts of india or in some parts of the world wherever it is the traditional social roles may be more conducive for the individual growth for the individual family stability as well as for the stability of the community in other social situations now the improvised roles uh whatever is appropriate according to the person’s nature the need of the society they will take that roles so that way if you understand the essential principle that the material is to be harmonised with the spiritual so to some extent we have to change some material things if somebody is engaging in sinful activities they can’t say i’ll harmonise that they have to they have to give that up but the material nature is the dispositions that people have it is not that every single one of them has to be challenged or countered it can also be doted in bhakti so when the when we become too caught in mundane things mundane things means okay this moment is good this moment this is this social moment is good this social moment is bad now the point is that we have to practise bhakti and for practising bhakti whatever is required we do that and we facilitate everyone to practise bhakti accordingly and last point i would like to make in this is that the the the scripture when it talks about say women or attachment to attach to women you know we have to see it in a inclusive sense see the bhagavad-gita fourth canto says that you know a woman is a sense object for man and a man is a sense object for women so it is not just women that is being talked about it is the principle of godless enjoyment that is being talked about so when we when we see scripture as talking spiritual principles spiritual principles but then we talk according to the language of the times nowadays we are sensitive when we write we don’t just say he did this okay using general we say he or she or we say we or they use inclusive language now this even 50 years ago this was not the standard but that does not mean that just because the gender inclusive language is not there in the past the concepts themselves are gender selective or gender biassed now we have to understand that when scripture talks about women or attachment to women it’s not just women that’s why in my class i did not go into specifically women actually what they it represents is self-centred enjoyment whichever form it may be and just as materialistic people attach to self self-centred enjoyment we need to become attracted towards Krishna so Srila Prabhupada was expert in this he for example that in the 15th chapter of the bhagavad-gita so krishna is saying that that spiritual abode is not illumined by sun moon or fire now Prabhupada adds electricity over there you may say where is electricity there’s no electricity in the verse but the point is when we are teaching scripture the point is not just to get it right the point is to get it across and if you see this is 15.6 and just few verses later in 15.12 krishna talks about a spiritual world he talks about spiritual perspective and he says that the sources of illumination in this world come from me so he’s contrasting the material in the spiritual world and he’s saying the material world has no is not self-luminous whatever illumination is there that comes from me so the point is the world is not self-luminous the spiritual world does not material world is not self-luminous the spiritual world is self-luminous so now Prabhupada’s audience is living in a place where most people are not illumined by the sun moon or the stars or fire they are illumined by electricity so Prabhupada is making that accessible the same way when we present scripture sometimes scripture may be presented by some which appears to be gender biassed but it is not it is inclusive everybody is encouraged and facilitated to practise bhakti according to their particular situations and we need to understand and present scripture in that inclusivity thank you very much so i’m grateful to be here amongst all of you and if during any of my classes i’ve spoken anything inappropriate please overlook and forgive me and please accept my humble obeisances pancha kalpataru bheshti so today morning we are discussing in the shramad bhagavatam