Religious tolerance, intolerance and transcendence – Reflections on Haridasa Thakura pastimes

Talk in Atlanta on the occasion of Haridas Thakura appearance day

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
thank you, it’s wonderful having this discussion thank you all for coming today evening on the auspicious occasion of Haridas Thakur’s disappearance so let us begin with a simple verse which will be the theme of my class you can try to repeat after me this is a short discussion between Haridas Thakur and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu it’s in Bengali Prabhu kahe Haridas Prabhu kahe Haridas kaha samachar kaha samachar yeh krupato maar yeh krupato maar Prabhu kahe Haridas kaha samachar Prabhu kahe Haridas kaha samachar Haridas kahe Prabhu yeh krupato maar Haridas kahe Prabhu yeh krupato maar Prabhu kahe Haridas kaha samachar Prabhu kahe Haridas kaha samachar Haridas kahe Prabhu yeh krupato maar Haridas kahe Prabhu yeh krupato maar so Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Asked in Haridas Thakur, oh Haridas, kahe samachar? What is the news? Now, what is the news is one way of asking, how are you? What is happening? So in fact, the whole WhatsApp app, it’s a variant of What’s Up? So that’s what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is asking. Kahe samachar? What’s up? So Haridas Thakur’s reply is not mundane.
It is transcendental. It isn’t new news, OK, I went here, and I came here, I did this, I did that. Actually, this is a question which Chaitanya Mahaprabhu asked Haridas Thakur when he’s very sick.
And in fact, this is the last day of his life. Haridas Thakur is on the verge of leaving his body. But he doesn’t say, I’ve got this pain in my stomach, I’ve got this problem in my head, all this.
He says, Haridas, kahe prabhu, yeh kripa toh maar. And whatever is happening, oh lord, is your mercy. So he doesn’t see the events from a mundane perspective.
Oh, this has gone wrong, that has gone wrong. He says, whatever is happening, oh lord, is your mercy. Yeh kripa toh maar.
And actually, this is a devotee’s vision of things. There are things which happen at the material level. And often, we need to respond to them appropriately at the material level.
But beyond what is happening at the material level, we also need to see the hand of Krishna in whatever is happening in our lives. And this ability to see the hand of Krishna is what protects us in the Bhagavad Gita, the highest stage of yoga. The yogi goes out to the jungle for meditation.
That is described in 6.10 onwards. Chaudeshye pratishtha, yas tiram asanam atmanah, nathim chritam nathicham chailajinukushyottaram tatraikagram manah, padvayat chittendriya kriya, upavishyasane yunjad yogam atma-visuddhaya. So in 6.11 and 12 in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna states that the yogi goes into a forest, sits in a secluded place, means asana of kushagras, then gets a deer skin, sits on a seat that is neither too high nor too low, and then engages in meditation.
So now, this process begins from 6.11 and 12, and the culmination of it is talked about in 6.30, where Krishna describes the perfected yogi. He says, yo mam pashyati sarvatra sarvam chamai pashyati tasyam na pranashyati tasyam na pranashyati yo mam pashyati sarvatra One who sees me everywhere. sarvam chamai pashyati And who sees everything in me.
tasyam na pranashyati For such a person, I am never lost to them, nor are they ever lost to me. tasyam na pranashyati So Krishna says that the perfection of all yoga practise is to be able to see his hand everywhere. See his hand in all things.
And this exalted level of consciousness is what we strive to achieve by the practise of bhakti. And this is what Haridas Thakur demonstrates. Through his life, through his living, and through his leaving.
How he lived in the world, and how he left from the world. Both demonstrate this deep level of Krishna consciousness. Now, Haridas Thakur appeared at a particularly volatile period in Indian history.
From around 1000 AD, the Islamic aggression of India started. Actually not just aggression, the Islamic conquest of India started. And by the 15th century, the stronghold of Islam on India was almost unchallenged.
A few centuries after that roundabout, strong challenges came up. But at that time, it was unchallenged. Yes, there was challenge, but the challenge was from other Muslims.
Some Muslims came from Afghanistan, some came from that area, some came from Turkey, some came from deeper Iran side. So they came from different places. But they were all fighting amongst themselves for hegemony, for control over India.
And so Haridas Thakur lived a life of Bhakti at such a time. Now, the Bhakti tradition is a very, very malleable tradition. It is sustainable, but it is also malleable.
Sustainable means it keeps surviving no matter what happens. But it’s malleable. That means it shifts its form according to what is required for the practise.
So B.C. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself, he actually shared Bhakti in three main parts of the country. He was in Bengal and he created a tremendous rejuvenation in Bengal. Then he went to Vrindavan and sent his prominent followers to Vrindavan.
And then he himself stayed in Jagannath Puri for the later part of his life. So in Jagannath Puri, there was a magnificent Jagannath temple. In Vrindavan, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu asked Rupa and Sanatana Goswami to build temples over there.
But for none of his followers in Bengal, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu ever asked them to build a temple. Why? Because at that time Bengal was ruled by a particularly tyrannical Muslim ruler. So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, although he is God, it is not that God always exhibits his omnipotence.
Krishna also teaches us different things at different times. When Krishna comes as a Kshatriya among Kshatriyas in the Mahabharata, he himself comes from the Kshatriya dynasty and his primary prominent devotees are Kshatriyas, the Pandavas. At that time he takes a Kshatriya role and he fights against the exploitative atrocious Kauravas and ensures that his devotees conquer power for the good of society.
Now when the Muslim integration happens, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu demonstrates how bhakti can be practised in a different way. That is, he descends as a Brahmana and he demonstrates how even amidst a hostile atmosphere, devotees can persevere in practising their bhakti. So the bhakti tradition, as I said, it is sustainable, that means it goes on, but it is malleable.
It changes its form so that it can go on in different situations. So in Bengal, the focus of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s teaching was on kirtan. If there are temples, those who are iconoclasts, those who hate image worship, they may come and desecrate the temples.
But if there is kirtan, some people can just sit together, just need some simple paraphernalia, some rudang, some kartal, and you can just sing and you can become absorbed in Krishna. So in Bengal, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu focused on this feature of bhakti, where just focus on chanting and singing and dancing and that way absorb yourself in Krishna. So just as the water always moves towards the ocean, Gange vau ghamu dhanvati, Kunti Maharani says in 1.8.42 in the Srimad Bhagavatam, that just as the river, that toimenan nivishaya matir madhupate sakrat ratimad dvahata dhadha Gange vau ghamu dhanvati, says, O Lord, let my consciousness flow towards you, just as the Ganga always flows towards the ocean, somehow or the other.
If a rock comes in between, it will flow over the rock, below the rock, around the rock, or eventually it will erode the rock and move on. So like that, a devotee always finds a way to keep practising bhakti. So, for example, if we go to the Middle East, there the current theocratic government doesn’t allow public practise of bhakti.
So the devotees are so enthusiastic to do rathyatra. So what they do is, they hire the biggest hall in the city. And inside the hall they do rathyatra.
So, the principle of bhakti cannot be stopped by anything material. The specific practises of bhakti may not be possible in all situations. But the principle of bhakti is the connection of the human heart with the divine heart.
And that is practical in all situations. The specific forms may vary. So, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu demonstrates this kind of bhakti, primarily through kirtas, where there is nothing tangible for the iconoclast to destroy or desecrate.
But even at such a time, Bharatashastra’s practise of bhakti is even more extraordinary. Because he was born in a Muslim family. And after being born in a Muslim family, from his childhood itself he was attracted to the practise of bhakti.
And he would chant and dance and sing. And the people in general, one aspect of the broad Vedic culture is that it is inclusive. Inclusive means, it doesn’t say that my way is the only way.
You follow my way or you are going to go to hell. That is the attitude of certain religions. And some extremist versions of those religions, they say, not only are you going to go to hell, we will help you on the way.
We will send you there faster. So, this is the attitude of intolerance. And this unfortunately comes from misinterpretation of certain statements in scripture.
See, every religious teacher, every group’s religious teachings has some exclusive aspect. Exclusive means, this is the way, this is the way you should follow, don’t worry about anything else. Has some inclusive aspect.
That, oh, you know, the other paths are also there, this path is also there, has plural aspects. You let them follow their path, we will follow our path. So, exclusively this is the only way.
Now, the exclusive statements are given for creating a sense of purpose. Just like if a patient has gone to 50 doctors and then is not stuck to anyone’s treatment. Then finally the patient comes to the 51st doctor.
And then the doctor starts diagnosing, this is your problem and this is your medicine. The patient says, no, but doctor, I went to this doctor and he said that. And I went to that doctor and she said that.
And I went to that doctor and he said that. And I have tried this treatment, I have tried this treatment. Doctor may say, forget it all.
You just do what I am telling you and you will get cured. Don’t bother about anything else. Now, when the doctor tells this, that statement is not meant to say that all other doctors are false.
The point of the statement is, okay, if you come to me, follow my treatment. So, the purpose of the statement is not an absolute rejection of all other doctors and all the treatments. The purpose is focus, focus on the treatment that you have.
So, like that, there are statements in the world’s religious texts, which tell, you cannot follow any of them, just follow this way. The point of it is not to reject all other ways. The point of it is to create a focus.
But, the followers of different religions are of different mentalities. And sometimes, some religious traditions, their followers focus on the exclusive statements. This is the only way and there is no other way.
And when this happens, then those religions often become intolerant. Now, the practitioners of bhakti tradition, on the other hand, they are usually much more inclusive. Recognise that there are different ways of practising, of approaching God.
And whichever way we approach God, the important thing is that we enhance our consciousness. We get to know God better and we learn to love God more. Actually, Prabhupada was in Iran.
At that time, he was talking with the devotees who were preaching over there. And suddenly, in the background, the prayers of Namaz started. And Prabhupada immediately folded his hands and closed his eyes.
And Prabhupada was completely absorbed, just hearing those prayers. And then, after that Prabhupada opened his eyes. The devotees were a little taken aback when they saw this.
Then they asked Prabhupada, wasn’t that beautiful, Prabhupada said. The devotees said, Prabhupada, but wouldn’t it be better if they were chanting Hare Krishna? So, Prabhupada replied, why are you making me sectarian? They are worshipping God in their way and we are worshipping God in our way. Why are you making me sectarian? So, God is the one to be approached.
And there can be different ways to approach. No religion has a monopoly on God. No religion can say, we alone have access to God.
If we say like that, the implication is that God is unlimited but access to him is limited. It is irrational actually. So, yes, now it is not necessary.
So, there is tolerance. So, there is intolerance where the idea is that this is the only way. Now some people go to the other extreme and they also say that there is exclusivism and there is pluralism.
Pluralism is the idea that all paths are right. Now all paths are right, it sounds very nice, it sounds very tolerant, it sounds very broad minded. But actually, it is not broad minded, it is empty minded.
Empty minded. You know, we should be open minded but we should not be so open minded that our brains fall out. That means that if somebody says all paths are right.
Once Pramupada was asked this question that Swamiji, I don’t know the words in the Bhagavad Gita, but Krishna says that whatever you do, you will come to me. So, Prabhupada says, if Krishna’s message was whatever you do, you will come to him, then why does Krishna have to speak the Gita? Whatever you do, you will anyway come to him. So, that is not the message of the Gita.
That is actually a misinterpretation of a verse from the Gita. The verse, Gita verse is 4.11, mam vartamanu vartante manushya partha sarvesha What Krishna is saying is, mam vartamanu vartante, all people are on my path. Whether they be Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Jews, all people are on my path.
Now, some people translate it as all paths lead to me. But that is not the translation. mam vartamanu vartante manushya partha sarvesha sarvesha partha anushya, all people, mam vartamanu, they are on my path.
It is not that all paths lead to me. That is a mistranslation of the verse. So, it’s not that all paths are perfectly fine.
If all paths are fine, then somebody may say that, okay, my path is Atheism. If all paths are right, then Atheism is also right. If Atheism is right, Atheism holds that God does not exist.
So, if Atheism is right, then all the paths that say that we should go to God, they become wrong. So, logically, we cannot have that all paths are right. There has to be a criteria.
Like, suppose, say, here there is Georgia Tech University. And suppose some students from Georgia Tech University say that, only those who do education and get their degree from Georgia Tech, only their degree is valid. And all other degrees are bogus.
Who gave you a monopoly on that? There are so many universities in the world. So, exclusivism is like saying only this university is right. But pluralism is that every building everywhere is a university.
That is also absurd. So, actually, there has to be criteria. Okay, what knowledge is given over here? What are the qualifications of the teachers? What is the calibre of those who come out of here? What kind of jobs do they get? There are so many criteria by which universities are evaluated.
So, like that, Prabhupada gave a simple criteria that, what is the knowledge that you acquired by following a particular religious path? And what is the calibre of the devotion that people develop by following this path? By following any particular path? So, now, Haridas Thakur, he was living in a time when the country was ruled by Muslims and the ruler was especially intolerant. And when he started practising bhakti, and he started inspiring people. Now, the general people, they have some pious sentiment and if they see sincere devotion in anyone, they appreciate that.
So, for the followers of the Vedic tradition, for the Hindus at that time, Shaitan Charita Amrit uses the word Hindu as a contradistinction to separate them from the Mlecchas, Muslims. So, they became attracted to him. Vaishnavas at that time started exalting him as a great saint because he had such saintly devotion.
And when he exhibited such saintly devotion, they became so devoted to him, so appreciative of him. They started venerating him as a saint. Now, this started creating some envy among the Mullah in that place because he felt that his authority was being challenged.
That Haridas Thakur had become a great saint and not only had he become a great saint, but he was a Muslim who was considered a great bhakti saint. So, he felt that other Muslims may also become like him and he wanted to check that. And in the meanwhile, the Hindu priests also were narrow-minded.
Some people have this narrative that, you know, Oh, we Hindus are good, all those Muslims are bad. It’s actually a very naive narrative because there is good and bad everywhere. The philosophical vision is that there is Sattva Guna, there is Rajya Guna, there is Tamoguna.
There is mode of goodness, there is mode of passion, there is mode of ignorance. And this division is there in every religion. There are Hindus who are in passion, there are Hindus who are in ignorance.
Similarly, there are Muslims who are in passion, Muslims who are in ignorance. There are Hindus in goodness, there are Muslims in goodness. Also, this is everywhere.
And to simplistically label people of a particular religion to be of a particular kind, that is a completely non-philosophical way of looking at things. It’s a mundane way. It is not even accurate.
So anyway, there is of course some reality to the fact that there is much more violence that happens in the name of Islam than in the name of other religions. And there is a reason for that. The reason is that, you know, in the Vedic tradition, the spiritual power and the political power have always been separated.
The spiritual power was in the Brahmanas, the political power was with the Kshatriyas. And the Kshatriyas were expected to be respectful to the Brahmanas. But the Brahmanas never took political power for themselves.
And for people in general, it was understood that they take instruction from the Brahmanas. They get material well-being from the Kshatriyas. They get spiritual well-being from the Brahmanas.
This combination of Brahmana and Kshatriya, both is required for leading society materially and spiritually. Now Islam, what has happened is, Mohammed acted both as the spiritual guide and the political leader. Mohammed himself fought wars and Mohammed himself gave the Quran.
And subsequent generations of Muslims have unfortunately focused more on the martial example of Mohammed than the spiritual example. And because of that, although there are many pious Muslims who practise Islam as a means for going closer to God, in general, those who are powerful in Islam, they follow more the political example of Mohammed. And because of that, while individually, Islam may be practised as a search for God by individual Muslims, collectively, Islam often becomes less a spiritual search for God and more a political search for power.
That is because Muslims, Muslim leaders, not general Muslim people, Muslim leaders often take the political example of Mohammed more than a spiritual example. So, of course, this is a big subject and we don’t want to go into the technicalities of this. But our point is that we should not label people according to a particular community as bad or as good.
So, I was talking about the Hindu priests were actually no less. The Muslim Mullah felt threatened by Haridas Thakur. But the Hindu priests also felt threatened because they were doing all rituals and they would get the Dakshina and they were subsisting by that.
And if they found that there is somebody else who is attracting people, whom people are respecting, then they felt threatened by that. And when they felt threatened, they tried to undermine Haridas Thakur. And the way they undermined him, his character was spotless.
I will not go into the specific details. But they tried to find a fault in his character by sending a beautiful prostitute to tempt him. The idea was he was a saintly person and they wanted to arrange that if they could publicly catch him consorting with a prostitute, then they would show all his devotionalism of Shyam.
And then they would discredit him. Their whole plan was they would have him arrested and jailed for hypocrisy. But Haridas Thakur was so completely absorbed in Krishna that far from succumbing to the prostitute, he transformed her.
She came to meet him at the night and he told her, let me just complete my chanting. And he kept chanting, he kept chanting. And he was so absorbed in chanting that prostitute was used that whenever people come to her, they forget everything and they want to enjoy with her.
But here was a person who was not even interested in her. She said, what is this? So first night she was there with him. Then she went away in the morning.
Next night she came and then she became curious. What is this? What is this chanting he is doing? And she started chanting. And third night she came again and she chanted.
And now by his Haridas Thakur association, she got such taste in chanting that she became transformed. And she told about the conspiracy out of which she had been made a part. And Haridas Thakur said, I knew it already.
Now I could have left this place on the first day itself. I stayed just because I wanted to deliver you. So he did not see the prostitute at all as a temptation.
He saw her as a soul who is lost, who needs Krishna’s shelter. Such was his great savings. And she became transformed as a place on the Indian-Bangladesh border of Annapur where there was actually a deity of Haridas Thakur and near that there is a deity of the prostitute who later on became a great devotee.
So now that particular plan failed because of Haridas Thakur’s saintliness. So then if they couldn’t find any fault in Haridas Thakur’s character, they still had to undermine him. So then they decided to find fault in his background.
If you can’t find fault in what he is doing presently, then look at his past, what he has done in the past. Now this is a typical cynical strategy. Try to dig up skeletons from a person’s past and try to label them for that.
And they found Haridas Thakur was such a great saint that actually his past was not even known. But then they found, oh he is a Muslim. And they found that how could they use his Muslim background.
So they decided to go ahead and complain to the Muslim leaders. And the Mullah was already agitated. But when the Hindus came and complained, then he got a further justification.
So then they decided to take action against him. And they told Haridas Thakur that they summoned him to court. They summoned him to court.
They said, no, you are, every religion has its idea that you know we are great. And the others are low. And so they had the idea.
You were born in this great Islamic religion. Why have you given the great path that is given by Allah? And why are you following these stone worshippers, these idolaters? So Haridas Thakur just started laughing. And he said, just see the illusion of people.
He says, the Quran and the Puran, all of them come from the same one God. He said that, that same God has inspired me to worship him by following the path of bhakti. And the Muslim actually was quite impressed by this.
He was speaking to a saintly person. And he said, if you think that I am punishable for worshipping God according to the way I am inspired to worship, then give me that punishment which you would give to a Hindu who started worshipping in a Muslim way. Now they would never punish anyone like that.
So they would consider it as a victory in converting people. So when Haridas Thakur spoke like this, the king was impressed. But the priest was a priest.
Haridas Thakur influenced people, now he is influencing the king also. He felt his path and he is a kafir. He is a traitor.
He should be punished. So unless Haridas Thakur recants his statements, unless he agrees to worship Allah according to the path given by Mohammed, he says he should be punished. And Haridas Thakur said, no I am powerless.
My heart is attracted to worship Krishna and I will worship him. So then the Qazi got angry and said, we will not only punish him, we will punish him in a way that will be a lesson for everyone. There are different kinds of punishment also.
So they said, they could very well have executed him there. But they said that we will execute him by flogging him publicly in the streets. So the idea is that they wanted to send a message.
If any of you try to do this, this will be your punishment. And they got these people and they started flogging him, flogging him. One after another, beating him, beating him.
And normally when people are flogged, the person who is flogging is very powerful. The beating of the whip is terrible. And the pain cannot be tolerated.
So they actually flogged him and Haridas Thakur was absorbed in chanting the holy names. He was absorbed and because he was absorbed, actually he did not feel anything. Later on in the Mahaprakash Leela, Mahaprakash Leela is a time when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu reveals how he loves his devotees and how he has helped his devotees on many occasions.
So at that time Chaitanya Mahaprabhu reveals that, Oh Haridas Thakur, when those people were beating you, at that time I was so angry that I came there with my Sudarshan Chakra and I wanted to kill all of them. But he said, the strength of your prayer for forgiving them was greater than the strength of my anger. And that’s why the Sudarshan Chakra which was there in my hands, it could not leave my hands.
And yet I could not tolerate you being beaten. So Haridas, what did I do? He said, I wrapped myself around you. And the blows that were coming on your body, they came on my body.
And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu took out his Angavasthara and he showed that on his back were the marks of flogging. And Haridas Thakur saw this and he fainted. Now this happened many years later actually.
At that time Haridas Thakur did not know what was happening. He was just absorbing Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. He was being caught by the hair and dragged along.
He was being caught by Shikha and he was being dragged along. He was being beaten, beaten. 1, 2, through 22 market places he was beaten.
And finally, the people who were flogging him, they got tired. When they got tired, they looked at Haridas and said, Haridas, what kind of man are you? Nobody has survived even 3 market places till now. And you are smiling after being beaten 22 market places.
He said, if you don’t die, we will die. Because the rulers were very brutal. Ravana also was like that.
Ravana, he had his demons fighting for him. And at the end of the day, when the battle stopped, he told his demons that whoever has died, just toss them far into the ocean. No last rites for them, just toss them into the ocean.
Why? Because he said that, that way the monkeys will not be able to see how many demons have died. They see a lot of demons have died, they will get boosted in their morale. But if they see no corpses, then they will think nobody has died.
They will become demoralised. So he literally had a use and throw attitude. Use and throw.
So like that, the same was the attitude of this Mleccha king. They said that, if you don’t do your job of killing this Haldas, then we will kill you. That was the idea.
So he said, we will die. So Haldas was so sane, he said, oh, if my living is a problem for you, then just see how I die. And just at that moment, he entered into Samadhi.
And he went into such deep Samadhi that practically all symptoms of life stopped. And the people thought, oh. They looked at him, oh, he has died.
And they went and reported that he has died. Now, after dying, some last rites have to be done. So what last rites should we do? So among the Muslims, they bury the body.
The reason is that they have the idea that the same body will be restored at the time of resurrection. And that’s why they have the idea that the body should be preserved. The Vedic understanding is that the body is different from the soul.
And the soul has to go to another body. So as long as the person sees that the body is still there, the soul still has the hope that I’ll enter into the body. That’s why to help the soul move onwards, the body is burnt.
When the soul sees that there is no chance of the body getting restored now, the soul moves on faster to the next destination. So they said that, no, he was born in a Muslim family, but he did not practise Islam. He practised that religious dharma.
He practised that kafir religion. So, he said he should not be buried. And the Hindus said, he was not a Hindu.
He was a Muslim. So they said we will not perform any last rites for him also. So they decided what to do.
They decided to throw his body into the river. It was horrible for a person to die and then just to be thrown into the river, his body. That’s what happened.
And he was thrown into the river. And his body just kept floating, floating, floating. And the people thought now he will drown.
The body disappeared from their sight. And Haridas Thakur came out of his Samadhi. And he came out of his Samadhi and he walked right back into the same city.
And started chanting over there. And at that time, and the Muslims, they had, in their tradition, there is a lot of emphasis on miracles. If somebody can perform miracles, that means that person has some divine power.
So, when they saw, Haridas, you have been beaten, your body was thrown into the river and still you have not drowned. Then they, oh, he must be a saint. He must be a saint.
And then the Muslims also don’t interfere with him. Whatever he is doing. Let him do whatever he wants.
So, for Haridas Thakur, he won not by resistance, he won not by violence, he won by transcendence. When he was being beaten, when he was being unjustly persecuted, he did not resist. He did not become violent.
He just became transcendentally absorbed. And he won by the transcendental absorption in Krishna. And in this way, he exemplified such extraordinary devotion.
And when this happened, his fame spread even more. And all the Hindus at that time, they started flocking around him. And they started adoring him for the extraordinary devotion that he had exhibited.
Such a Haridas Thakur was named by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as Nama Chaitanya. That he is the Acharya for exemplifying how to take shelter of the Guru. So, now this Haridas Thakur also, everybody in this world, they eventually have to, whether you are devotees or non-devotees, you have to grow old, you have to get deceased, you have to die.
So, Haridas Thakur was actually much older than Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Among Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s immediate associates, Haridas Thakur and Advaita Acharya were already quite old. They were contemporaries.
And then, Haridas Thakur, he, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was in Puri, he also came to Puri. And his last moment came. So, it is when he was living there, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would come to him, greet him, every day discuss Krishna Katha with him, give him Prasad of Jagannath.
And then, in this way, he got very sweet association with Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And at this particular point, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was asking him, Prabhu kahe Haridas kahe samachar, Haridas kahe Prabhu je grupa tomar. He said, what is the news? Haridas Thakur was already sick for many days.
And this particular day, just before Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had come, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s servant, Mukunda Govinda had come. And he told, he saw that Haridas is very sick, he is not even able to get up. He went and reported to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu came immediately. And then, Haridas Thakur sees his weak condition near death as also the mercy of the Lord. Sometimes, we expect mercy in materially congenial terms or in materially miraculous terms.
So, the Lord demonstrated that mercy in a miraculous way when Haridas Thakur was being beaten. But at this particular point, the Lord did not miraculously heal him. So, we should not always expect Krishna’s mercy in materially favourable terms.
It can come in materially favourable terms. We see that in the Mahabharata, there are occasions when Arjuna is able to fight incredibly. He single-handedly defeats the whole Kaurava army when he kills Jayadratha.
And Krishna helps him miraculously by covering the sun just before the last moment. But that happens on the 14th day and just on the previous day, 13th day, Abhimanyu is killed. And we could say that then Krishna doesn’t help.
So, it is not that Krishna doesn’t help, but Krishna’s help can come in different ways. So, Vyasadeva tells Yudhishthira, who is shattered by the death of Abhimanyu, that he says, in this world, everyone is vulnerable to temptation. No matter how much they rise, temptation can drag them down and degrade them.
Abhimanyu, at such a young age, by laying down his life in the cause of Dharma, has attained the destination beyond temptation. Thus, his life is perfect. So, the spiritual vision is that whether there is death or whether there is life, that is not important.
Whether there is absorption in God, that is more important. So, the way in which Haridasa Thakur was miraculously protected, it is not that everyone will be protected in an equally miraculous way. It may not be.
And we see, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not do anything miraculous to heal Haridasa Thakur’s body. At this point, what did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu do? When Chaitanya Mahaprabhu came there, he glorified Haridasa Thakur profusely. As if he had five arms, saying that, there is no one who has as much devotion to the holy name as Haridasa Thakur.
And all the devotees knew about Haridasa Thakur’s glory. But when they heard from Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, their appreciation of him and Haridasa Thakur increased all the more. Their wonder struck.
And Haridasa Thakur had tears in his eyes when the Lord was speaking like this. And he moved, couldn’t even walk properly, dragged himself along the ground, came near Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and he laid down in front of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And he laid down in front of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and took Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s feet on his chest.
And he said that, Oh Lord, I want to behold your form with my eyes. Oh Lord, I want to hold your feet on my chest. Oh Lord, I want to utter your name.
And in this way, I want to give up my body. And the Lord fulfilled his desire. Beholding the beautiful form of Lord Chaitanya, uttering his holy name, holding on to his daughter’s feet, he chudai nutan.
He gave up his body. When he gave up his body, what happened? Everybody was astonished. They were grief struck that they would no longer get the association with Haridasa Thakur.
But at the same time, they were jubilant because in death, he had attained the supreme victory. Now everyone has to die. What is important is not whether we die or not.
What is important is where we go after death. And that is determined largely by what is our consciousness at the time of death. antakale chamameva smaran muktva kalevaram In 8.6 in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says that those who remember him at the time of death, they will attain him.
And Haridasa Thakur demonstrated this. And this was not the end of it all. What happened after that? Normally, if a person passes away, then everybody becomes afraid.
People don’t want to touch the body. Initially there is grief. And they may touch the body, and they may embrace the body.
Oh, where have you gone? Where have you gone? Why have you left me? But after some time, when it is clear that the person is not coming back, then everybody becomes a little afraid of the corpse. They don’t want to touch the corpse. Most people don’t even want to keep the corpse in their house at night.
So, what did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu do? Chaitanya Mahaprabhu just said, namami haridasa samtam chaitanyam tam chitat prabhum samsthitam apiyan murtin svankye krutvala nartaya Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, with svankye krutvala, in his own hands, on his own lap, he laid the body of Haridasa Thakur, then he picked up the body in his own arms, and he started dancing. He started dancing, taking the body of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, sorry, taking the body of Haridasa Thakur, he started dancing. Now, this demonstrates the transcendence of bhakti.
Normally, according to the smart brahminical standards at that time, a sanyasi should not even touch a mleccha. Sanyasi will get contaminated. And a sanyasi should not touch a dead body.
But what to speak of touching a dead body, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu took his dead body, and he danced with it. Now, sometimes in some movies, you may say a heroine dies, and the hero carries her body around, and they parade around. Actually, that is simply the bodily conception.
The heroine is attached to the body of the hero. The hero is attached to the body of the heroine. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is Krishna, and as Krishna, he is taught that you are not the body.
So, if he knows Haridasa Thakur is not his body, why is he carrying around the body? He is actually expressing his affection for Haridasa. That for a devotee, although the devotee’s soul has departed, but still even the body in which the devotee was present, that body is also sacred. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu danced around with his body.
And he danced and danced. Long kirtan they performed. And then after that, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, so he sent a statement, through his actions, he is sending a statement.
Statement about the transcendence of Baapya. Although the sanyasi, who followed the rules of sanyasa very strictly, but in this case, he focused on the principle of bhakti. And he put aside all social conventions for demonstrating the glory of a devotee.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was a sanyasi, and although a sanyasi, he would rarely take bhiksha. The people over there would be eager to give him bhiksha, but he would not take much. But in this case, he said, I want to make a big feast for Haridasa Thakur’s disappearance.
And he himself went to the shopkeeper and said, please give me some bhiksha. And they were delighted. They thought that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had stayed there for years, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had never come to their shop asking for bhiksha.
On this day when they came, they started giving lavishly. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had actually taken out his own angavasthami, he was taking it off. At that time, Swarodha Mother Goswami, the assistant, he came and said, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Mahaprabhu will arrange all this.
And they took Mahaprabhu back. And then Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he, when the feast started, he himself wanted to serve everyone the feast. And Swarodha Mother said, Mahaprabhu, nobody will take food unless you take it.
So then Mahaprabhu finally sat down and started eating. And when he started eating, he told everyone, serve more, serve more. So actually that feast was in honour of Haridasa Thakur and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and all the devotees.
They were not just tasting the taste of the food. They were actually tasting the devotion of Haridasa Thakur. Of course, before the feast, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu personally arranged for the samadhi of Haridasa Thakur.
Now, for ordinary people, it is recommended that the body be cremated. Because if there is some attachment to the body, the soul may hover on over there. But for great souls, they have no attachment to their body.
So in their case, because their body is sacred, it has been the place where a great soul has performed bhakti. So that body is also considered sacred. And often that body is, a tomb is made.
It is called a samadhi. So rather than burning the body, cremating the body, actually a tomb is made. It is buried.
And at that place, a sacred shrine is constructed. So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu decided to offer that honour to Haridasa Thakur. And personally he performed, he bathed the body of Haridasa Thakur and performed the last rites.
So through it all, what did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu demonstrate? The transcendence of bhakti. That bhakti is transcendental to political realities. Bhakti is transcendental to social and cultural realities.
Haridasa Thakur didn’t bother who are the political rulers. They didn’t bother what are the cultural conventions. He focused simply on the practise of bhakti.
And on the occasion when Haridasa Thakur departed from this world, His example of steady absorption in Krishna is the example that we all can strive to emulate. Bhakti is not so much a process of rejecting the world or accepting the world. It is a process of transcending the world.
And for transcending, some things in the world we may accept, some things in the world we may reject. But the focus is how we can connect with Krishna. And we all are in different situations.
We all have different difficulties. But if you remember, through all the material difficulties, Krishna is still here. Krishna is still in my heart.
And Krishna is still there with me. And if I just take His shelter, He will enable me to find a way ahead. So Krishna never leaves us.
It is we who turn away from Him. But although we turn away from Him, He is still there. And even when material things become difficult, still Krishna is there.
And if we maintain our faith in Him and strive to connect with Him, strive to practise bhakti to Him, He will give us the way ahead. दामि बुद्धियो गंतं लिनमावः पेवांति देव। Now if we make, I conclude with one point, if we make our bhakti conditional to the arrangement of materially favourable reality for us, that means, I have this problem Krishna, I am worshipping you so much. Please solve this problem.
We can pray like that. Yes, we all have problems. And we can pray to Krishna to solve the problems.
But if we think, if Krishna doesn’t solve this problem, then what is the use of practising bhakti? And I will give up the practise of bhakti. Then unfortunately what we are doing is, we are half trusting Krishna. Half trusting Krishna means, we have a big problem, and we have faith that Krishna has the power to solve the problem.
That means we are trusting Krishna’s omnipotence. But Krishna is not only omnipotent, Krishna is also omniscient. Not only He has all power, He has also all knowledge, He is all intelligent.
So when we expect God to answer our prayers on our terms, this is my problem, and God solve this problem in this way. We are asking to form a partnership with God, but what are the terms of the partnership? Oh God, my intelligence, your power. My intelligence and your power.
Solve this problem. But if we have, that’s half trusting God. We have trust in God’s power, but we don’t have trust in God’s intelligence.
Now God can see much further down the road than what we can see. Now a small child, they want to run down a road. Mother says, no, don’t go down that road.
No, I want to go, I want to play over here. The mother knows there is a big ditch over there, in that ditch there are some snakes. The child says, my mother is restraining me.
But the child cannot see that far, the child doesn’t know that far. But the mother knows that far. Similarly, when we trust Krishna, we should trust not just His power, but we should also trust His intelligence.
Krishna knows what is good for us, better than what we know. And that’s why even when some difficulties come, surely we can pray Krishna, please help me release this difficulty. And this is what I feel is the solution.
But we don’t make our bhakti conditional to that solution. Prabhupada was asked, what is the best prayer that has been offered to Krishna? And he said, pray that Krishna, please give me the strength to serve you. Please give me the strength to serve you.
So whatever be the situation in my life, please give me the strength to serve you. If we have that prayer, then whatever happens in our life, we will discover that Krishna is always there for us. To give us shelter, sometimes that shelter may come, and the problem may be externally averted or removed.
Sometimes the problem may remain, but still we will feel sheltered within. And we will go through the problem, and not only go through the problem, but we will grow through the problem. Grow in our faith, grow in our transcendental absorption, and grow in our journey towards Krishna.
So I’ll summarise. I talked about how the devotee sees everything that happens as Krishna’s mercy, and tries to serve the Lord according to whatever situation they are in. Haridas kahe Prabhu, Jai Kripa Tau Maa.
So devotees don’t see the mundane news, in the sense that this happened, that happened, that happened. They see everything as Krishna’s mercy, and how can I serve him in this situation. We discussed how the bhakti tradition is both sustainable and malleable.
It keeps surviving, but how it survives? By changing the form. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu recommended building temples in Vrindavan, but didn’t recommend that in Bengal, because the rulers were Muslim who were very intolerant. In that connection we discussed about tolerance and intolerance.
Every tradition has some statements which are exclusivist. This is the only way. They are like a doctor saying, just follow this treatment.
They are not meant to be taken as absolute truths. But when the leaders of that tradition take those as absolute truths, then that tradition becomes intolerant. So, to say that my way is the only way is false.
Prabhupada appreciated even when the Muslims were doing namaz. And the bhakti tradition in that sense is inclusive. Recognising that there are many different paths to God.
So, to say my way is the only way is not right, but to go to the other extreme and say all paths are right, that is also wrong. That is like saying that every building is a university. No, we have to see what are the products of that path.
How much knowledge of God, how much devotion to God are people developing by following that path. So, we discussed how Haridas Thakur was born in a volatile situation. The country was ruled by Muslims and he was born in a Muslim family, which started practising bhakti in what externally seemed the Hindu way.
So, when the Muslim mullahs felt threatened, they tried to undermine him. And then the Hindus also felt threatened. Hindu priests also felt threatened.
We discussed how we should not see externally that people of this religion or this race are bad and this religion are good. Our vision should be sattva guna, rajya guna, tamoguna. And people in different religions have all these different moods.
So, in Islam, because the followers of Mohammed have focused more on his political example than on his spiritual example, that is why the aggression within that tradition is more. But it is not that all Muslims are bad or anything like that. There are greats everywhere.
So, in this case, I talked about how Hindus, the persecution of Haridas Thakur was instigated not by the Muslims, it was instigated by the Hindus. They said that he is defiling our religion. Although he is a Mleccha, he is chanting the religion and he is guiding our people.
So, then they had a mock trial of him. Haridas Thakur remained faithful, but then he was sentenced. And all this beaten, beaten, beaten.
He did not die. Why? Because Chetan Mahaprabhu himself came and covered him. And then, because he was miraculous, he survived it all, the Muslims also accepted that he is a saint and they let him do what he wanted.
Then we discussed, so here Krishna intervened miraculously. But then later, when he grew old and he was about to die, at that time, the extraordinary intervention was not in terms of miraculously healing his wound. The extraordinary intervention was in terms of Chetan Mahaprabhu giving him the opportunity to absorb himself in remembrance of the Lord by chanting, by beholding, by touching.
And in this way, he had a perfect departure. And Chetan Mahaprabhu rejected social conventions by not just touching a dead body, but dancing with the dead body. And thus he demonstrated how bhakti transcends all external social formularies.
And lastly, we discussed that we should not make our practise of bhakti conditional to the solution of our material problems. If we demand that God solve our problems on our terms, then we are thinking that our intelligence is better than his intelligence. That is half trusting God.
Trusting only his power, not his intelligence. If we fully trust Krishna, we have faith in his intelligence, power and his intelligence. And then, if we have that attitude, Krishna please give me the strength to serve you in whatever situation comes in my life.
Then Krishna can sometimes miraculously solve the problems or Krishna can give us miraculous strength to tolerate and go through and grow through the problems. Thank you very much. Okay.
Good question. So, when we have problems, we take shelter of Krishna. And when we don’t have problems, we often become apathetic.
But then, we are not at the level of Kunti Maharani. You can say, Krishna, give me problems. So, what should we do actually? Yes.
Actually, the problems are not the generator of bhakti. If that were the case, then every person who had problem, they would be practising bhakti. It is actually the mercy of devotees, it is the mercy of Krishna and the proper use of our free will that leads to the practise of bhakti.
So, some people in problems, they may take shelter of Krishna more. Other people in problems, they may become atheistic and go away from Krishna also. And some people may amidst lack of problems become complacent.
Others may say that, okay, now I don’t have problems, let me focus on bhakti more. So, we can’t say that material circumstances alone determine the practise of bhakti. Whichever they are favourable or unfavourable.
However, the principle remains that in this world, we don’t usually feel the need for God. We don’t feel the need for God. If life is going on reasonably well, then we feel, yeah, I am happy here, God is happy there.
Let things go on both ways. So, that’s why we as sadhakas do need to feel the need for Krishna. So, in psychological terms, they say there are three zones in which we can function.
There is a comfort zone, there is the… comfort zone is one extreme. There is a panic zone is the other extreme. It’s like if somebody is lifting weights, then if they can lift 10 kg weights and they go to a gym and start lifting 2 kg weights.
There is no exercise in 2 kg weight, they can lift 10 kg. So, if they are lifting 2 kg, it’s in the comfort zone. But if they can lift 10 kg and they lift 20 kg, they will break their bones.
So, 20 kg lifting is like a panic zone. But if they lift 11 kg, then slowly their muscles will improve, they will grow. So, like that, that is called the stretch zone.
And you just do something slightly beyond one’s capacity. Up to one’s capacity or slightly beyond one’s capacity. So, sometimes when big problems come, we go into the panic zone.
When there are no problems, we go into the comfort zone. So, what we need to do is, to steadily go on in bhaktis, we keep ourselves in the stretch zone. Stretch zone means that we take up some challenging service for Krishna.
Something that is not extremely difficult to do, but not very easy to do also. Something that requires effort from our part. And something that also requires extending of our capacities.
So, when we do that, that is a sustainable way in which we can practise bhakti. So, if we don’t have services which challenge us to some extent, then we will become complacent. If we take up some service which is challenging, which requires us to make a commitment, then because in that service, there are some parts which are in our control and some parts which are not in our control.
So, the part which is not in our control, that makes us dependent on Krishna. That makes us call out to Krishna. And if nothing is in our control, then we start feeling powerless, we start feeling overwhelmed.
So, we should take up services which stretch our capacity somewhat. And that way we can study more and more. So, we don’t have to pray to Krishna for problems, but we can certainly take up some challenging service in Krishna’s service, in Krishna’s mission, Krishna’s cause.
And that will inspire us to feel the need for Krishna and to call out to him. Does it answer your question? Yes, it does. Yeah, correct.
Correct, yeah. Okay, master. Okay.
Yeah, correct. Okay. Okay, good question.
So, I mentioned Harer Nama. I mentioned that Prabhupada said Muslims are worshipping God in their own way and we are worshipping in our way. But then Narada Muni says that Harer Nama, Hari’s name is the only way.
See, if we take that verse extremely literally, then it should be Harer Ram only. It is only the name of Hari, not even Krishna, not even Ram. We should be chanting only the name of Hari.
If you say Harer Nama Kevalam, if I am going to take it absolutely literally, it means only Hari and no other name also. But it’s not that way. It is a generic call to chant the names of God.
So, there are different names in different traditions. So, Allah is also a name of God. Yahweh is also a name of God.
Christ is also a name of God. Buddha is a name of God. So, Prabhupada, from Bhaktivinoda Thakur onwards, our Acharyas have always been very inclusive in their understanding.
So, they have presented Bhakti in a way that through different traditions people can approach God. Now, when Prabhupada interacted with Christians, his approach was two ways. If somebody was a devout Christian, somebody was already a Christian pastor or somebody was very dedicated to practising Christianity, then Prabhupada did not insist that they become Hare Krishna devotees.
He told them, understand the Bible properly, practise the teaching of Jesus properly. He would quote, thou shall not kill by agitating meat. So, that was for those who are committed to a particular path, Prabhupada did not try to pull them to another path.
But for those who are nominal Christians, born in a Christian family, but only rarely go to church and not practise anything, he told them that actually practise the process of Bhakti as is revealed by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Because of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s mercy, the higher taste is much more accessible in this path. So, if you consider going towards God like climbing a mountain, there are different paths to go to the top of the mountain peak.
So, different religions are like different paths to reach the mountain peak. All of them take one to the top. But there can be some paths which are more difficult and some paths which are more easy.
So, the path of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, because of His special mercy, there is a higher taste which is much more easily available than the other paths. There are many aspects to this about why Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s path is easier. But easier is not exclusive.
So, people can chant the names of God in any tradition and they can become elevated and even liberated. But we practise, see when we are following a particular path, at that time we should climb on this path. It’s not that we go and explore that path and we go and explore that path and we go and explore that path.
Then we’ll just be crossing around on the foothills, not climbing up on any path. So, Prabhupada would say that once you have understood your path, then all comparative religious studies, that is simply Sanskrit education. Follow your path and move onwards towards Krishna.
So, the principle of Hare Rama is a generic call to chant the names of God. Does that answer your question? Okay. See, if we ask something to Krishna, material, and it’s not good for us, but we don’t know that it’s not good for us, so will Krishna give it to us? See, goodness and badness, often this is not intrinsic.
It is not always determined by content. It is also determined by consequence. That means the same thing which will be good for one person may be bad for another person.
So, rather than saying that things themselves are good or bad, we can say that how we deal with those things is good or bad. So, some people may pray to Krishna for wealth. And they may get wealth and that may increase their faith.
Oh, Krishna fulfils my pledge. And they may become devoted to Krishna. We see this happen with Dhruva Maharaj.
He wanted a kingdom. He got the kingdom. But he felt, oh, Krishna is so much more attractive.
He said that this kingdom is just a broken piece of glass. Actually, Krishna himself is the jewel and I want that. But that’s not what happens to everyone.
There are examples of demons who get wealth and they become intoxicated. So, there are two aspects in our relationship with Krishna when we approach Krishna. We cannot artificially partition our material and spiritual life.
No, we are integral beings. Now, when we care for someone, we can’t say that I’ll care for your soul. I won’t care for your body.
We can’t do that. We care for the complete person. Body, mind and soul.
So, like that even with our needs, we cannot artificially partition our material and spiritual life. Our material life also matters. Our material life, it is important and ultimately it affects our spiritual life.
You know, if there is some upheaval in some relationship, if there is financial instability, if there is health issues, all that affects our spiritual life. So, we can’t artificially just neglect our material life and think I’ll approach Krishna only spiritually. What we try to do is, we have a spiritual relationship with Krishna based on our sadhana, based on our shastric study, based on our devotee association.
And along with that, we harmonise our material life. So, if something is burdening us, if some material problem is burdening us, then that is occupying a significant place in our heart. When that is burdening our heart, if at that time we say I’ll not talk about this to Krishna, I’ll not pray to Krishna about this, then basically that problem is not going to go away from our heart.
That problem is anyway going to occupy a large part of our heart. It will occupy a large part of our heart. At that time, we will not let Krishna connect with that large part of the heart.
Is that point clear? Because my consciousness is going to be occupied by that problem anyway. I can’t wish away that problem. That problem is there, it is there for me.
So, better that I pray to Krishna for the solution of that problem. But again, we don’t make our bhakti conditional to the solution of that problem. So, even if we pray to Krishna for something.
Now, one of the things that makes bhakti exciting is that no one can predict Krishna’s response. So, sometimes Krishna may give something to us. And if we have a sincere attitude to serve, then even that which could have taken us away from Krishna, we will get the intelligence to use it and go towards Krishna.
So, rather than worrying too much about what Krishna will do, we focus on whether we are doing the right thing. So, as I said, doing the right thing means trying to make sure that our basic sadhana, our spiritual practises that connect us with Krishna, they go on steadily, no matter what happens. At the same time, if some material things are burdening us, we can pray to Krishna about that.
And if we pray to Krishna, how Krishna responds? That is His mercy. And we continue our practise of bhakti. So, it’s not that we partition a part of our heart away from Krishna.
We are trying to offer our whole heart to Krishna and if something material is occupying the heart, we connect that also with Krishna. Does that answer your question? Correct, Krishna. So, can we stop? Yes, we can.
Yeah, sure. So, if any of you have any further questions, you can take prasadam and that time we can also discuss. Thank you very much.
Shri Prabhupada ki Jai. Go on.