Role of Jnana in Bhakti

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
problem in that relationship will be Today we will discuss this topic of the road of jnana in life.
So, the road of jnana So, in our Gita, basically we are discussing this topic and making a series of confusing Gita verses or intriguing Gita verses. I call it as naughty Gita verses. Naughty in the sense of you will try to confuse it.
So, we will look at this verse 7.17-18 which apparently talks about Krishna’s love for Jnani devotees. We will recite this verse and come back to the topic of discussion. So, TESHAAN JNANI TESHAAN them.
talking about four kinds of people who celebrate Krishna’s love for Jnani devotees. So, TESHAAN JNANI TESHAAN means among them. The words before this is talking about four kinds of people celebrate Krishna’s love for Jnani devotees.
Among them Krishna is saying that Jnani is the best. And he is not just talking about Jnani being best in terms of the four in an objective way. But even in this objective way Krishna is expressing affection.
He is saying I am already devoted to Jnani and Jnani is already devoted to me. Now, of course, this Jnani is clearly not a monistic mayavadi type of Jnani. That can be understood first from the point of view is bhaktir vishishya.
Ek bhakti is practising one quality of bhakti. The Jnani is even if they come with that of bhakti there is another ek bhakti. They have bhakti as one part as a limb of their jnana sadhana.
Along with that they may also have some upasana, some bhakti going on. And more importantly is they say vidya is constantly engaged. Vidya means that he is constantly engaged in bhakti.
It is not that now he will be engaged in bhakti and then he will merge. He is eternally engaged in bhakti. But still it is interesting that among the other kinds of people which jnana siddha artha and artha are there.
Krishna considers his jnana to be the best. He says he is the best. He says he is very dear to me.
jnana adhya adhya aham chasam aham chacham He says he is as good as me. Next one that’s what he says. Jnani is like me himself.
So this seems to be a very strong appreciation of Krishna of a jnani. So this is the starting of the Bhagavad Gita here. And then we focus on Chetan Chetan and see what and then look at Chetan Chetan for instance from the perspective of Bhakta Samudra Sindhu.
Now in the Bhakta Samudra Sindhu ah it’s clearly said that Jnan is not an element of Bhakta. Among the 64 lines of Bhakti Jnan and Vairagya are not consummate variables. And Durga Samudra is the commentary on the Bhakta Samudra written by Jiva Goswami.
Guru Goswami is a Guru Samudra written by Jiva Goswami is a commentary on that Bhakta. And then he is explaining that when Guru Goswami is saying Jnan is not an element of Bhakta. What he is referring to is this Jnan Jnan is three aspects.
There is Atma Jnan, Ishwar Jnan and Kirtapu Jnan. The Jnanis also accept there is Ishwar. But they think the Ishwar is transient.
If there is Ishwar now we worship it but later on we worship it. So their idea is I have to understand I am Atma I don’t understand there is an Ishwar but by worshipping that Ishwar it will understand that actually they say that you will understand the Jiva and the Ishwar are the one. So now with respect to this analysis why is Jnana not an element of the being.
So it is visible. understand? So he was talking a few minutes. What about Jnana makes it predictable and what about it can make it unpredictable.
So he says there are aspects of Jnana in constitution in application and in destination that make it unpredictable. So lets look at them first and then we will look at how it can become unpredictable. So in constitution means what is that Jnana made of.
So in constitution the Jnana consider that is actually will become one with God and if they want to become one with God then it denies the eternality of Jnana. And if it denies the eternity of bhakti then that is very predictable. And Krishna of course explains it in a few sentences that Prabhupada writes in 9.2 Bhagavad Gita that in practise it continues forever.
So this idea of the Jnanis is not based in Shastra and also in 18.34-35 Krishna says that after a person comes to Jnana the Jnanis have the idea that we practise Jnana we practise Bhakti and then we get Jnana. Krishna says the exact opposite. He says you become successful in Jnana then you get Parabha.
So this has no Shastric basis in that sense. The more important thing is that Bhakti is not eternal. Then when one tries to practise Jnana the application of that part leads to the hardening of the heart.
Why does it need to be hard? Because when one is trying to practise Jnana the whole process of analysis, introspection, debate, confrontation, so when one goes through too much of analytical mode and this is right, this is wrong, in general if you want to do analysis, analysis is obstructed by emotions. For example, if somebody is angry and then there is a discussion between the two people, what happens is the discussion cannot go rational because the emotions obstruct rational discussion. And in the Jnana Marga, by rational analysis, the Jnanis want to find out or establish that our path is the best.
So, when they have to be rational, when rationality is very important for analysis, when there is no scope left for emotions, when there is too much analytical mode, for analysis emotions have to be suppressed. Once the emotions are suppressed, then it becomes difficult to develop those emotions So, in the application, the Jnana Marga leads to the RMP of the heart. That’s why he says that not to struggle too much with this because not only will one’s faith get damaged, that’s possible, but even if one’s faith doesn’t get damaged, the excess of the analytical mode leads to the suppressal of the emotional pattern.
And that makes it difficult to experience emotions. And, of course, in the destination, the goal of Jnana is emerging and emerging into the end of the world. So, right in the conception itself, it denies a good idea about pain.
And if one succeeds in that, then one says, the end. So, in this way, from the point of view of conception or constitutional conception, in the destination, the Jnana is Pratikundu. So, at the same time, Vivekananda also explains that this is only about Kshushka Jnana.
This is about dry, sweating, little knowledge. He says, there is another kind of Jnana which is Pratikundu. Let me describe it.
So, he says, this Jnana, it emphasises the eternality of the servile being. This Jnana says that actually, we are eternally the servants. That’s why, when Jnana was asked by Sanatana Goswami, what is the primary teaching of Jnana? He says, Jiva is no way to stay in world.
So, this knowledge, this aspect of Jnana. So, there are three aspects of Jnana, Atma Jnana, Ishwara Jnana. And third was Taikattu.
But, from Bhakti it is Taasattva. It is Taasattva Jnana. And if in conception it is clear that actually, I am the servant of God.
And our philosophical study, our intellectual analysis, helps strengthen our conviction that I am a servant of God. And I cannot become a servant God. If I a servant of then that understanding creates a very strong foundation for me.
So, this Jnana, by understanding that I am the servant of God, is with conception unmovable. Now, in the practise, if one understands the glory of the yields of Bhakti that one is practising, then that inspires one to practise it more. So, that leads to the stabilisation of the practises.
For example, we are chanting the holy names and periodically we hear some classes about the glories of the holy name. Now, are the glories of the holy name Jnana? They are not a part of Jnana Marga, but they are much. So, the word Jnana is not a memory of the Jnanas.
The word Jnana is a broad term which also has its own meaning. So, when we hear about the glories of the holy name, that inspires us to take strength of the holy name. Similarly, there are the other names of Bhakti.
When we hear about how potent Bhakti is, that reminds us of the potency of hearing, inspires us to hear more about Bhakti. I am saying that all the other names of Bhakti. So, with the Jnana enhances our appreciation of the glories of the practises of Bhakti.
Then, in the process, in the application of the process, Jnana does not become Pratipu, it becomes Nrityu. In fact, in one sense, although the Goswami is telling that Jnana is not an element of Bhakti, at one level, we can say the whole compilation of Bhakti is an international intellectual effort. And to glorify the Goswamis for their massive intellectual effort, Jnana, Shastra, Prachara, Nritya, Nritya Nritya, Nritya, Nritya, Nritya, Nritya, Nritya, So, in application, when we hear about the glory of what we are practising, that inspires us to go deeper and become more serious in the practise and then as far as the dissertation is concerned, ultimately we only want a cloud version.
So, the intellectual study can enhance our appreciation of the glory of Krishna. So many books about not about Gyan analysis but about the glory of Krishna and these books if you read them that enhances our devotion and we see this principle that in Chaitanya Mahaprabhu he would glorify Krishna in various ways in his own life. He transformed his grammar teaching into a form of glory of Krishna.
Similarly in Asantapada there are so many acharyas and books about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu pastimes, about Krishna’s pastimes and these pastimes actually flourish about them. So now the books are not only about pastimes. Bhagavatam is certainly having something to do with pastimes.
It is a large philosophy. Large philosophy is guru guru. Philosophy is under guru guru.
So the more we understand the glory of Krishna the more it inspires us to devote ourselves to Krishna. So that’s how even the distinction Bhagavatam writes in 1.4 that although a devotee is always complete, still because Krishna is unlimited so there are unlimited ways of knowing Krishna and that’s why although a devotee is always complete a devotee keeps refreshing and increasing his knowledge continuously and this goes on for the rest of his life. That’s how this is the destination also.
The process of jnana, jnana as a limb of Bhagavatam is useful. Now what are we referring to when we are saying jnana? Now for example right now we are trying to establish jnana of Krishna. Is this jnana? Now actually in the Vedic tradition words are often multivalent.
Multivalent means they have many meanings. Because they have multiple meanings sometimes a word acquires a negative connotation. Denotation is a direct meaning.
Connotation means the imagery that is associated with a particular word. So the word jnana generally has a negative connotation. It associates a jnani.
But actually speaking, as I said, the word jnani itself is not negative. It is shushta jnani. Now if we look at the past time of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu meeting Prakashan and Saraswati.
In the Chaitanya Chaitanya Kamala there are five major philosophical discussions. There are three which are directly devotional. Swamiji gave Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Ramayana to write.
Secondly Chaitanya Mahaprabhu gave it to Swami. Thirdly Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s jnana to Swami. These are directly about the use of devotional service.
And this Ramayana is more about the assa of devotional service. There are two which are heavily philosophical. And they are that Prakashan and Saraswati and Sarovar Mathacharya.
So Sarovar Mathacharya is the sixth chapter of the Madhya Lila. And actually speaking the conversation with Prakashan and Saraswati is described twice in the Chaitanya Chaitanya Kamala. It comes first in the 7th chapter of the Madhya Lila where it is talking about the glorification of Panchakarta.
Then that incident or the interaction with Prakashan and Saraswati comes twice in the 20th chapter of the Madhya Lila and again in the 25th chapter. So in the 20th chapter Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is on his way to Vrindavan. And he goes to Varanasi and he meets Rapan Mishra and other devotees over there.
And then they talk about how there is Prakashan and Saraswati and he is very impersonal. He is very Mayavadi. But he doesn’t associate with them.
He goes over to Vrindavan. And then in chapter 25 when he comes back there is a brief mention. So when he comes back then from there at that time there is a conversion of Sarovar Mathacharya and Prakashan and Saraswati.
Actually Chaitanya Mahaprabhu first time doesn’t even meet them. But when he returns back to Maharashtra, Vrindavan, Rapan Mishra and Shri Kalacharya all of them that actually he has been criticising you. When you came and you went away.
So these are Sanyasi, why did you assume to be Sanyasi? Why is he dancing in the streets? Why is he being sentimentalist? So we can’t tolerate this nonsense. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu showed the mercy to Prakashan Saraswati not because he was a great scholar. But because his devotees were distressed.
And he wanted to relieve the distress of the devotees. That’s why he accepted the invitation to Maharashtra and Vrindavan. And he came to the meeting where both of them met.
So from the chronological point of view, from then, the past time is positioned in the proper way of giving. So he is going towards Vrindavan and he is coming back to Vrindavan. So then he is distressed over there.
But from the philosophical point of view, in the 7th chapter, the Agamila, when the position of the devotees is established. So there, there is a lot of philosophical discussion. So actually, primarily the philosophical dialogue and debate is described in the 7th chapter Agamila.
And in the 25th chapter of the Madhya Lila, what is described is the transformation. And then, Prakashan Saraswati and his disciples describe how Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is Supreme Lord, how he is so unfortunate and how by his mercy now he will be delivered. So now, how did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu deliver Prakashan Saraswati? So actually, there were three things.
There was his nobility, his beauty and his clarity. He had his nobility. You know, nobility was that he went and sat in the place where the people were engaged.
And he sat over there and what did he do? He exhibited his intelligence. Very good. That was the beauty.
And then, when they asked him also, why don’t you come and sit with us? He said, no, I am not, I am not going to do that. First he picks him up and brings him right next to him and sits him over there. And then, he starts discussing.
He says, you know, you are chanting the holy names. Why don’t you come and associate with us? He says, no, no, no, you don’t interact with me. I am good for nothing.
So I can’t discuss with you. That’s why I came and sat with you. That’s why I was chanting the holy names.
And then, they have chanted by humility. But as the discussion progresses, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu starts clearly explaining the actual meaning of the Vamsi. And slowly but surely, the Mahatma started understanding that his notions were completely wrong.
And he was completely transformed. He was a huge stalwart of Chaitanya Mahasaya. And he is the most dramatic Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in all his writings.
It was Harambhattacharya. He was transformed and he became a devotee. He was the leader of the Mahabharatis in the capital of Mahabharata, Varanasi.
He goes and transforms them. So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself exhibited knowledge. And at the same time, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s wife, he was practising logic.
He was practising. He was an expert logic shaker. He would defeat everyone.
And after Chaitanya Mahaprabhu describes, after he comes back, after meeting Ishwara Puri, and then they are in the house of… So they meet at that house. Radha Prabhu is hiding behind. You did not hear? No, no, no.
In Mayapuram, this person comes to the house of Srivasa Thakur and he says that… Srivasa Thakur says, why are you smiling so much today? He says, I have some special news for you. Actually, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has… In Mayapuram, he has become a devotee. He comes and meets Srivasa Thakur, the person who tells him this.
So the point is that there they meet. So Gagadhar Thakur is hiding behind a pillar. And he is hearing what is happening.
He is so ecstatic to see how Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has been completely transformed. And he is so happy to see this. And then Chaitanya Mahaprabhu asks, where is Gagadhar? And Gagadhar says, I think you should go and call Gagadhar.
And then he says, oh Gagadhar, you are so fortunate. Right from your birth, you have always been a Krishna. And he says, I have wasted so much of my life… in trying to taste that which is tasteless.
In trying to taste that which is tasteless. And he says, it is only because of the blessings of all the devotees like you… that now I am able to taste the joy of Krishna. So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself at one level laments… the time that he wasted in Jnana.
But then when required, he also exhibits Jnana. When required, he actually exhibits unparalleled spiritual prowess. That is how he is able to do that work.
Prakashantha Sastruthi Nisarampacharya. So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in his teachings… basically demonstrates that Bhakti is supreme. So Bhakti is supreme.
And Jnana can only be a preparation or a foundation for it. Jnana should never be placed above Bhakti. If Jnana can be useful for the practise of Bhakti, that is fine.
But if it is not useful, if it is going to obstruct Bhakti… then that is not good at all. In the Buddha Gita, every scripture has its context. So in the Bhagavad Gita, Jnana is talked about a little bit.
In the 18th chapter, there are a few verses… just before Krishna adopts our Bhakti. It’s 18.49, before. We are talking about Jnana Sajna.
But in the Buddha Gita, there is a large section on Jnana. Because the whole focus of the Buddha Gita is… to constitute Jnana and renounce Jnana. So Vishwachandra Mahaprabhu explains this for folks over there… that the idea is that Bhakti is the best.
Bhakti is the best. But if I cannot practise Bhakti, then Jnana is preferable… because Jnana helps one to renounce Jnana. Jnana helps one to renounce things.
So the idea, the focus of the Bhagavad Gita… is in one sense of renouncing the world. Both from the point of view of Harishchandra Maharaj… wanting to renounce the world. And both from the point of view of Indrava… because Krishna is departing from the world… so Krishna wants Indrava also to be detached from the world.
So therefore, the emphasis there is on Jnana. Chakravarti Patshah says that… actually as far as Karma is concerned… that keeps one in the path of knowledge. Path of Ardhmananda.
And that’s why that should be given up at all costs. So when Chakravarti Mahaprabhu… talks with Sarvabhattacharya as his Bhaktasangh Saraswati… one thing that he emphasises is… that you have Jnana, your speculation… has obscured the original meaning of the word. It has obscured.
But what Chakravarti Mahaprabhu does is… he not only makes what has been obscured clear… but what is clear, he makes it more clear. He makes it more widely known and accessible. So it’s just like, if you look at the Bhagavad Gita… the same verses once again.
So here Krishna is saying… all are avadara. All of them are avadara. They are all very broad-hearted.
But among them, the Jnana is first. Asthitaham sahi duktar Amaham evam uttamaam That means, I must be the greatest boon. So Ramacharya explains about Sudha, Raha.
He says, why are they all called large-hearted? Because they are offering their heart to Him. Krishna is Bhavavadra. So Krishna means hungry for the devotion of His devotees.
Or He is hungry for devotion from everyone. So He is happy that the soul is at least approaching Him. Even if it is for the material things, at least the soul is approaching Him.
And He is offering something to me. Even if it is for the material things, at least He is offering something to me. So Krishna is grateful.
Krishna calls the soul who is doing this… Atamakya Laha Charitable. That is Krishna’s kindness. Now, Chakravarti Mahaprabhu in His commentary mentions over here… that although Krishna is saying, Jnani tu atmai govindam that the Jnani is as good as me.
Krishna explains in the Avadhav Gita that the Kevala Bhakta is more dear to me than Him. So He is telling over here, the Jnani is as dear to me as Him. But the Kevala Bhakta is more dear to me than Him.
That’s how Krishna’s Bhakta is much greater. Now, in this section, in the commentaries, Krishnaji talks about some interesting analysis. He explains what are the destinations of different people.
So, you know that if somebody directly practises Jnana, then that person will go in Brahma. But what will happen if somebody practises Jnana? Jnana Vishwa Bhakti. So if somebody practises Jnana Vishwa Bhakti, he says that the person will attain Shantarata.
And he gives the example of the Kumaras. They are Bhaktas. They are Jnana Vishwa Bhaktas.
Now, if there are Jnana Vishwa Bhaktas with contact with pure devotees, like Shudra Goswami, he had contact firstly with a pure devotee. Then, they get Prema, but in Aishwarya. Whereas if there is Kevala Bhakti, then one will get Prema in Madhuri.
One will get Prema in Madhuri. One will get Goloka Vrindavan. So, he says that, actually speaking, at the transcendental level, Jnana is, can be a non-state.
Jnana can be non-state. So, if you see the Brajwasis, they have knowledge about Krishna’s divinity. But that is always in their life.
Only occasionally it may not occur. Their focus is on Krishna’s divinity. Focus consistently on how beautiful, how lovable Krishna is.
Not how great and how powerful, how divine Krishna is. So, in that sense, Jnana is helpful in the practise of Bhakti. But the more one goes beyond Jnana, focus purely on love of Krishna, the more dependent is the relationship of Jnana with Krishna.
So now, here, we have the concept of Sambandha Jnana. Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana. Among them, the Jnana element is Sambandha.
Prayojana is the experience in the heart. Abhidheya is the process. Sambandha is Jnana.
So, the Acharya described that, when a traveller is lost at night, if the moon rises in the sky, then the traveller can find his way. So, like that, for the conditioned souls who are lost in this world, Sambandha Jnana is the moon. Sambandha Jnana helps them to find their way.
But, when the traveller reaches the destination, when the moon is no longer required, so, are the devotees aware that there are servants of Krishna? That is there in the background, but in the foreground, Krishna is above them. That is the moon. Sambandha Jnana is not lost, but it is eclipsed.
It is not forgotten, but it is pushed to the background because of the intensity of love. Like this. So, now, if you look at Prabhupada’s approach.
So, now, we are focussing first on the Bhagavatam. And now, look at what the Chaitanya Chaitanya Upanishad is saying, what Goswami Sambandha was saying. Now, let us look at the way Prabhupada presented things to us.
If you see, as compared to the presentation of traditional Kathakas in Bhagavatam, or traditional or professional, whoever it is, both are there. Many of them focus mostly on Katha. In Prabhupada, very focused on Katha.
In Prabhupada, very focused on Katha. Prabhupada primarily spoke philosophy. In his lectures, there is practically no lecture.
We saw that there is not one lecture that is only a pastime lecture. And there is not even one lecture in which the pastime is like 70-80%. The pastime is there, it is less than 50%.
And most of it is philosophy. Now, of course, Srila Prabhupada did translate the books of pastime into the Indian version of Bhagavatam. And Srila Prabhupada did also comment on the CC.
And we see that Srila Prabhupada in the CC did not give very large commentaries. Like in the Bhagavatam, he gives long commentaries. The CC does not have such long commentaries, in general.
Except in the philosophical sections. So, it is not that Srila Prabhupada was in any way against pastimes. But the thrust of Srila Prabhupada’s presentation was on understanding the philosophical problem.
On understanding the philosophical problem. And, of course, the pastimes help us to develop our affection for Krishna. So, the philosophy helps us to develop savnishi.
The pastimes help us to develop affection. It is not a black and white analysis. But in general, the philosophy helps us to understand Krishna’s glory.
When we understand Krishna’s glory, that helps us to develop savnishi. And the pastimes help us to understand Krishna’s beauty, Krishna’s sweetness, Krishna’s loveliness. And that helps us to develop affection.
So, Srila Prabhupada focused on the point that we have to understand the amount of work we have to do. That we have to actually develop our spiritual consciousness. We are giving up our consciousness.
And Srila Prabhupada, there is a letter of Srila Prabhupada. He writes to Prabhupada saying that when he was in Calcutta, he saw that Ramakrishna Mishra had a nice book on all Bhagavatam pastimes. And he said, they are selling it a lot.
So, he said, we can also make a book. A condensed version. We can also distribute it out.
So, then we made that book. Then we said that Prabhupada wrote back saying that no, what is this book of pastimes? This is a pastime of more or less known. Those who know it, they already know the pastimes.
They won’t find the book useful. And those who don’t know it, what will they gain just by hearing the pastimes? He said that our Acharya, nobody has telln us the Bhagavatam. Nobody has explained it to us.
So, he says, we don’t need any such books on pastimes. Only on pastimes. So, now of course, I showed this to Pranav Prabhupada and our Geeta Prabhupada.
Now we are discussing, we have this CC condensed and Bhagavatam condensed. So, now one thing is that if the translation of Shri Prabhupada knew about this and that might be a handy quick reference for devotees who eventually want to study the Bhagavatam or refresh the Bhagavatam. But if the condensed CC or condensed Bhagavatam becomes a substitute for the actual Bhagavatam, then that is very complicated.
That is the answer. So, Shri Prabhupada’s presentation will be seen to be focused to a substantial extent on the philosophy. But does that mean that Shri Prabhupada did not consider pastimes important? No, they were a part of the tradition.
And we have to also see that the Acharyas are often responding to certain historical situations. So, in the historical situation that Shri Prabhupada was there, actually speaking, the Bhagavat Katha had become quite commercialised and trivialised. There were professional speakers who would speak on it.
That happens in today. And Prabhupada time and again says that one should not go to the temple directly and speak on the pastimes alone. So, the idea is what Prabhupada is saying is that Shri Prabhupada has to distinguish himself by bringing people in the proper philosophical understanding.
And when the proper philosophical understanding is there, then we relish Krishna or Krishna’s pastimes in a proper way. I am going to do this now. So, what does it mean to relish Krishna’s pastimes in a proper way? Generally, whenever we hear the pastime, let’s start with, say, not a pastime, but a timepass.
That is, people watch a movie. So, when people enjoy a movie, how do they enjoy? They enjoy by identifying with the hero. So, when the hero and the heroine are dancing, then people start missing.
Why? Because people are identifying with the hero and they remain going, why would we be there? It would be so nice. It’s all second-hand enjoyment. Second-hand enjoyment.
But the point is, that people enjoy by identifying with the hero. Now, to some extent, that happens even when we hear Krishna’s pastimes. When we hear Krishna’s talk, Krishna has killed Juna Bhatta, Krishna has done, there is a lot, shot arrow, blow away, killed Gumbakar, whatever pastimes we hear.
Now, we tend to identify with someone in the pastime that is related to the pastime. So, whom do we identify with? It’s quite likely that we identify with the Lord. Of course, it’s not that we think I am the Lord.
But we identify with the Lord as the central character through whom, through whose perspective we see the whole pastime. Now, this identification of the Lord does not create much problem when we have seen the Lord interacting as a hero on the war field or even when he is in Sankhya Raksha or Vatsalya Raksha. But, when the Lord is performing pastimes in the Madhya Pradesh, and at that time if we identify with him, that can lead to very undesirable agitation in the mind.
We do not ask for anything because that will evoke our mundane desires. That’s why, what happens is when we are sufficiently purified, then when we hear Krishna’s pastimes, we identify not with Krishna, but with his devotees. So, when we hear Krishna’s pastimes, especially Krishna’s pastimes in the Gopis, before we are sufficiently strong philosophically educated and purified, then we tend to see his interactions as an intimate interaction, as a manual interaction, and we tend to identify with the Lord.
Even if they are devoted to the Lord, they identify with the Lord, but still the bhoga bhava is there, the internal vitality is there. And because of that, the result is our mundane emotions are filled up. That doesn’t happen even if we identify with Krishna and Krishna’s eating butter, drinking butter, it doesn’t matter so much.
But with the Madana’s pastimes, that leads to undesirable emotions coming up. So, as we advance, we will identify with the devotees. We will see the Gopis not as women, but as devotees.
You see, how beautifully Krishna has reciprocated each one of his demands. When we see that, then those pastimes can be appreciated in a proper consciousness. So, just to conclude about what I understand Shri Gopal’s position is, because Shri Gopal wanted to make clear, he also had so much bodily consciousness, that the bodily consciousness was practically sabotaging any chance of authentic devotional practise or devotional consciousness.
So that’s why Shri Gopal repeatedly emphasised, you are not the body, you are the soul. So that you could have some authentic platform for practising them. And also because the pastimes of Krishna were being trivialised and commercialised, Gopal did not speak those pastimes.
And as his followers, we see that our spiritual teachers also, they speak pastimes, but they always buffer the pastimes with lessons, with some morals to learn, some philosophical education. And this is not that. This is integral and significant.
One of the propagandas of the some of the other religions, of the other branches of the Vaidya Vishwamitra, I did write earlier on the devotees, away from this talk, is that all of us are practising Dhyana. To conclude, we are actually practising Dhyana. This is completely misleading.
It is not that if philosophies discuss that is Dhyana, and if pastimes discuss that is Bhakti. This is such a such a it’s a neophyte and pre-natural rupture of the actual personal bhakti. Personal bhakti has a combination of we are supposed to understand.
And the admission, the meditation, so far is there, the way it is given us, then we actually can experience devotional emotions authentically as we are doing this. Otherwise there are, this is not meant to criticise anyone, but in general, if you look at the other branches of the for example, many of them don’t emphasise on the chanting these three notes as initiation. They say okay, just chant as much as you can, and come and hear other verses of their pastimes.
So where is actually the advancing of the personal bhakti? So Shraddha Prabhupada, actually where I insisting that how many of us are extremely personal bhakti, in a very serious way, all you have to do is to chant these three rounds, is really a completion of your experience of mental devotional emotions. And rather than seeing philosophy as pastimes of bhakti, we understand that the philosophy and pastimes are a whole complete approach, which is how, which is bhakti. It’s not that the two are separated.
So, I’ll stop here. Please put your comments. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .