Sharpening our focus – going beyond piety to spirituality and the mental to the spiritual

[Srimad Bhagavatam class on 1.2.8 at Krishna House, Gainesville, USA]

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Okay, we have… So, am I audible behind? Yeah. So, today we are discussing from the Srimad Bhagavatam, when Suta Goswami, when he was answering the questions of the sages. And, he started his answer, two verses before.
And, that verse is considered one of the most important verses in the Bhagavatam, which says, sa vai punasam paro dharmo ito bhakti-radhoksha-ji ahaituki apratihata vayatma-suprasiddhati that that is the topmost dharma, which enables one to develop love for God, which is pure, which is uninterrupted and unmotivated, ahaituki apratihata vayatma-suprasiddhati. Now, in the Vedic context, there were many different conceptions of dharma, many different paths to spiritual elevation. And, in my previous talk, I talked about how jnana and karma were two broad ways of looking at the world.
Karma is driven by the idea that by making material changes, we can make life better in this world. And much of science is, especially technology, is fuelled by the karma mentality. And jnana is spiritualism, this modern version, where we just realise the futility of the world and then wonder whether there is anything beyond it.
So, after telling that prema, or love for God, is the highest, and the question comes up, what about other forms of, other things which are considered as duties? So, in the previous verse, it is said that that the other jnana and vairagya, that naturally results when there is bhakti. Vasudeve Bhagwati, bhakti-yoga-prayojita, janeti ashu vairagyam, jnanam jena hetukam. Just practise bhakti, by attachment to the Lord, detachment from the world, and knowledge, will naturally emerge.
So, there are three paths, the path of karma, path of jnana, and path of bhakti. The Bhagavatam, the sixth verse, states that the path of the bhakti is the highest. Then what about jnana and, what about path of jnana? Since jnana will emerge, by the practise of bhakti itself.
And what about the path of karma? That is addressed in this verse. We say that, if we are doing our particular duties, if we are acting in this world, if by acting in this world, we do not develop attraction to the transcendental Lord, then all the work that we do, is not of much use. Dharma is referred to, refers here to duty.
According to one’s own position, we may do one’s duty. If that does not lead to, if that does not increase our eagerness to hear about Krishna, to know Krishna, to love Krishna, then, if that attraction doesn’t happen, then, it is simply useless labour. So, I’ll talk about two things, in this talk, how the spiritual is beyond the materially bad and the materially good.
And the spiritual is beyond not just the physical, but also the mental. Not just beyond the body, but also the mind. Many people equate piety with spirituality.
Piety is living a good life. Maybe giving some charity to others, maybe going to a temple or a church periodically, and living a morally good life. That is definitely good, but this in itself is not spiritual.
Why is it not spiritual? Because spiritual is centred on understanding our spiritual self. A person may go to a religious place for worship lifelong, but they may never understand the spiritual side of their life. They may just live materialistically, and for them, God is just a part of their life.
Like Bhaktivinoda Thakur talks about this mentality, what he calls as pious materialism. It is pious, but it is materialism. It is not spirituality.
Pious materialists feel that life has many enjoyable parts, and religion is one of them. Even bhakti is one of them. And God is not a portion of our existence.
He is the purpose of our existence. And this understanding to treat God as a portion of our existence means, yes, I have many activities to do in my life, and one of them is that I do some religious activities. It’s good.
It’s definitely better than impiety. But when God is simply a portion of our existence, then we cannot attain God by that. We may attain some of God’s blessings, and we may become elevated by that.
But we won’t attain God by that. God has to be… If we have to attain God, then He has to be the purpose of our existence. So in piety, God is a portion.
We see God as one portion of our life. And we think that, oh, if I worship Him, then He will provide for my needs. He will protect me from dangers.
He will fulfil my desires. And with this understanding, the role of God becomes reduced more to a provider and a protector. It is… He is not seen as the object of love.
And Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakur says that people may approach God at different levels. That is, fear, desire, duty, and love. So fear, we know there are three modes of material nature.
Does anyone know what the three modes are? Goodness, passion, ignorance. So now when we talk about these three modes, what do they mean actually, the modes? We are, before we probably were introduced to bhakti, we may never heard of the word modes in a philosophical context. We probably, if we ever think about our thinking, we talk about our moods.
Today I am not feeling good. Today my mood is bad. So now our moods come from our moods.
Our moods, some people just are irritable. Some people are just pessimistic. Some people are very analytical.
So, some people are hyperactive. So all this kind of mental frame comes, all these moods come from the moods. Whereas the moods, they come and go quite rapidly.
The moods are more steadier dispositions. But anyway, the point I am making here is, when we are, when we are pious, when we are religious, but our conceptions are tainted by ignorance, by the lower mood, then we approach God out of fear. Oh, we think that, oh, if I don’t, if I don’t worship God, then he may create some trouble in my life.
You know, when I was in college, I had a friend who never was interested in spirituality. But one day, after I became a brahmachari, many years later, he called me and he said, I want to give a donation for the temple. No, I didn’t.
He had never come for a programme, me not at all interested. So I asked, what happened? He says, do you have some spiritual experience? I said, no, no, no. He says, this is just a preventive measure.
I said, what do you mean? He said, I am starting a new business now. If God exists, he should not create any trouble in my business. So, we approach God out of fear.
That is, when our conception is contaminated by ignorance. Then when we come to goodness, with passion, we approach God out of desire. Not so much that he will create trouble for me, but rather, there are many things which I want that I am not able to get.
So he will provide it to me. If I worship him. So in passion, we have a lot of desires and we see God as a tool for fulfilling our desires.
So, the scriptures tell us that Krishna is performing pastimes in the spiritual world and he wants to invite us. He is telling us, come to me and join in my pastimes. Assist me in my pastimes.
But in the mode of passion, we tell God, I want to perform pastimes here and you come and assist me over here. No, I want to do this, I want to do that and you help me in that. Again, it’s good that we are connected with God and Krishna says that all these people who connect with him in some way or the other, they are pious.
They are Sukrutin. These are two positive describers for them. In 7.16, the Bhagavad Gita says, they are Sukrutin.
They are pious. And in 7.17, he says they are Udaaraha. They are large-minded.
At least they are thinking about God. In goodness, one sees going to God as a duty. Not so much that, oh, he will create some trouble or he will fulfil my desire.
You will see that God has already provided me so much. He is, my very life is dependent on him. The way our heart breathes, the way our food, our stomach digests the food.
Everything that we do, there is very little component of it that is actually under our conscious control. So, so much in the body happens without our even knowing how it happens. One of my friends is a doctor and he conducted cost analysis once.
He said that nowadays with technology advancing, there are different parts of the body which stop functioning. We can make them function. If the heart doesn’t function, we can have a pacemaker.
Kidney doesn’t function, we can have a dialysis unit. He said that, but all this is actually very expensive. If somebody is on the verge of death and we put them on artificial life support systems, it is very expensive.
And yet with the best life support systems, we cannot actually sustain the whole body. If the blood stops circulating, if there are many processes that they stop in the body, we can’t make them function. But he said that, if at all we could develop the technology by which we could do everything in the body artificially.
The, it’s about five years ago, he said, in cost at that time for maintaining the body for one day, he did in India, it would be between five lakh to ten lakh rupees per day, which would be how much in America? Yeah, so twenty thousand, ten hundred thousand dollars per day. Now, who is paying that? The body is being maintained. We are not maintaining it.
So actually, at the level of goodness, there is some understanding that God has already done so much for me, so I have a duty to worship him. But still, in all these three, the reference point is this world. The reference point has not shifted beyond this world.
God should not create trouble or God should fulfil desires or God has already done so much for me. So our focus of interest is the world. The focus of interest is not God.
And that’s why, even if one does, one’s activities very beautifully. So we have various kinds of duties. We may have our family responsibilities.
We may have our responsibilities to our greater society, to our nation. We may have responsibilities in religious circles. So all these duties, if we do them, but if our goal does not change from the world to God, then, from the ultimate perspective, we have not achieved anything worthwhile.
श्रम एवही केवलम् That, it is simply a waste of time. Because, the soul is going through many many lifetimes. And, while going through these many lifetimes, the soul’s ultimate destination is the kingdom of God, is the spiritual world.
And to go there, the soul needs to develop love for Krishna. Only when we love Krishna more than we love this world, can we attain Krishna. Only when we love Krishna more than we love this world, can we attain Him.
But, if we are thinking of Krishna as a tool for dealing with this world better, then, our conception of God is very utilitarian. And thus, there may be some devotion to God. Many times when people come to temples and they pray, sometimes you see even pious people who are not sadhakas, they may fold their hands and they may pray very fervently.
They may pray sometimes, they have more devotion than what I have. When I go in front of the ladies, I just look for a minute or two and just go away. But, they pray so fervently.
Yes, they pray fervently because, not because they are emotionally invested in God, they are emotionally invested in the object that they are praying for. See, there is emotional investment in the object we are praying to and there is emotional investment in the object we are praying for. So, there is emotional investment in the object I am praying to means I am interested in God.
I am emotionally invested in God. That is our goal as devotees. When materialistic people come and pray, they may pray very sincerely and a sincere prayer has to be appreciated.
But, their emotional investment is not in God. This particular problem which I have, please, it must be solved. Please solve it.
And they pray. So, they are connecting with God that connection is auspicious. But, whether that connection will lead to attraction, whether that connection will lead to attraction towards God, that depends on whether their philosophical understanding evolves, whether they develop a spiritual conception of life.
If they don’t do that, then even if they come and pray to God, they seem to be connecting with Him very devotionally at that time. But, that is just contextual. I have this trouble, so I come and pray to God.
And once this trouble is solved, thank you God, bye bye. So, the connection is not enduring. So, God has not become the purpose of their lives.
So, even if the devotion is intense, it is intermittent. And that’s why the Bhagavatam says, in two verses earlier, that bhakti should be ahaituki and apratihata. Ahaitukiti, ahaituki means unmotivated.
Unmotivated. And apratihata is uninterrupted. So, Prabhupada writes, speaks in a lecture that, as long as our devotion is motivated, it will be interrupted.
If my motivation is, oh, you know, I want to get, I want to get through this, get into, pass this exam, or get this interview, crack this interview, or get this job, or whatever, then I will be very devoted at that time. But, you know, when I was in the Pune temple, our temple was close to a school. Just next door was a school.
And those kids would hardly ever come to school, but suddenly, it seems like April is the month of devotion. In April, they would have their exams, and before their exams, they would all come and pray. Please, please, you know, pass me in this exam.
So, what is happening, when the devotion is motivated by something in this world, then that devotion will be interrupted. Because if that motive is fulfilled, then thank you. Bye-bye.
And if the motive is not fulfilled, then what is the use of worshipping God? So, either way, when the devotion is materially motivated, it will be interrupted. All this is not to say that material things are not important. They do matter.
In our career, our family, our health, our financial situation, all this does matter. But, that is not all that matters. And we need to have, naturally when we worship Krishna, if we have any problems in any of these issues, if our health is not good, if our financial status is insecure, that will naturally affect our bhakti.
And we may pray to Krishna about these things also. But we don’t make our relationship with Krishna dependent on the resolution of those things. Now, whether things work out materially or not, Krishna, I am still devoted to you.
Bhaktivinoda Thakur, one of his songs is Sampade Vipare. Whether it is prosperity or adversity, my dear lord, you are my lord. So, if this understanding is not coming, if I am doing my duty, but I am not doing my duty with God as the purpose of my life, then that duty, being dutiful, being responsible, is certainly much better than being irresponsible.
But being responsible is not necessarily being spiritual. Sri Prabhupada gives the example that Prabhupada talks in the Purport about here about concentrated selfishness and extended selfishness. Those who are concentrated selfish, concentratedly selfish, they are all eye specialists.
What is eye specialist? Not the doctor eye specialist, but eye specialists. Eye specialist. Eye first, eye only.
So, nowadays the culture is the culture of extreme individualism. Now, even one of the main reasons why relationships don’t last is because people are too self-centred. Where they think just, it’s concentrated selfishness, me first and me only, sometimes.
This is concentrated selfishness. And in such a culture, extended selfishness may actually appear good. Say, when most people, they can’t even stay married stably, if a couple stays married for say 25 years.
Now that’s something which is laudable. Why? Because at least the person is out of themselves. But Prabhupada calls even that as extended selfishness.
Why? Because, yes, I am maintaining this relationship, I am being dutiful. And that is good. Definitely.
But still, that itself is not spiritual. In the book Second Chance, Prabhupada gives the example that how Ajamil, he is talking about how Ajamil’s parents, his father was so attached to Ajamil. And he says the attachment of the parents to the children, it is natural and necessary.
But it is not spiritual. He gives the example that even if, even if a kitten is there, and a cat is there, and somebody comes to threaten the kitten, the kitten will immediately bare its fangs and show its teeth and protect the kitten, even with her own life. Similarly, a loyalist may protect her cub.
And this, Prabhupada says, is natural. Natural means that by the arrangement of nature, when a living being has progeny, they feel attached to their progeny. It is natural and it is necessary.
It is necessary because in many species, the offspring will not be able to live if the parents do not take care of them. It is all the more so in human beings, human society. But it is natural, necessary, but it is not spiritual.
It can become, of course, spiritual, if there is an understanding of the soul, that is the real person, and there is an understanding of God as the ultimate goal of life. When the parents help the child to also become devoted to God, then they are actually acting at a spiritual level. So the Bhagavata is saying that we may do our duties very responsibly, but if those duties do not increase our attraction to Krishna, if being dutiful does not lead to becoming more devoted, then from the spiritual perspective it is simply a waste of time.
We live and we die and we continue on in the cycle of birth and death without moving any further. Yes, by being responsible our life in this world may be better, our life in the next world may also be better, but it is not necessarily spiritual. We still stay in the same cycle of birth and death.
Now moving forwards, so here Prabhupada also talks about the word Swarga Loka. So Loka means abode, Swarga is heaven. Swarga Loka is the heavenly level of existence.
One of the defining differences between Bhakti and ordinary religion, between spirituality and piety is that in piety heaven is a place to look up to. People want to go to heaven and they think we will enjoy in heaven. But in Bhakti heaven is a place to look up from.
To look up from means there is something higher than heaven also. Heaven is not just a place to look up to but also a place to look up from. Heaven is a place where there is much better material enjoyment available.
But even heavens are not eternal. Even the heavens are temporal. In 8.16 Krishna says that even, want to speak of heavenly planets, the highest planets in this world if one goes, still one continues in the cycle of birth and death.
Therefore the heavens are not the ultimate destination. So there is piety and there is spirituality. Piety will take us up to heaven.
But heaven is not, spirituality alone will take us to the kingdom of God. So if you consider say a 14 story building, a 14 level building, in which 7 stories are above the ground level and 7 stories, 7th is at the ground level and there are others which are below the ground level. So now in all of these levels there are people who are existing.
So the upper stories, the upper levels in this house, so this 14 level building is like the material world. In this material world there are levels of existence above us and the upper worlds are called as heavens and the lower worlds are called as hells. Now heavens and hells both exist in this world.
Whereas the spiritual world exists outside this building. Now in a sense, you know if a rescue helicopter comes along, somebody throws a rope, people can get out from any of these, any of the levels. But the easiest way to get out of the building is from the ground level.
So in this material world, the present abode that we live in, the earth, this is the place from which it is easiest to get out of the material world. In the lower, in the hellish planets, there is so much suffering, it is very difficult to think about God. In the higher planets there is so much pleasure, it is very difficult to think about God.
It’s like simple, suppose we sit down for chanting and if we are sitting on a chair which is filled with thorns and now just tolerate all the thorns and chant Hare Krishna. If all the thorns are pricking, it’s not going to be very easy to concentrate. So it will be quite difficult.
So hellish planets are like that, when there is too much suffering, focus on God becomes difficult. It’s possible but it’s difficult. On the other hand, say during japa time, we all of us had the full Sunday feast plate in front of us and we are told you are not allowed to close your eyes.
You have to look at the japa plate and chant attentively. How easy it is going to be, it’s going to be difficult. So heavenly planets, practising bhakti is possible but it’s difficult.
There is so much pleasure there that the pleasure becomes a distraction. So in the earthly planet system, there is pleasure and there is pain. But overall the balance is such that we are prompted towards spiritual growth.
So the living a dutiful life is good but it is not good enough to attain God. It is because it alone does not lead to devotion to God. And Prabhupada also says about how the mental activities of the philosophers, they also actually need to go beyond them to the soul.
Nowadays in today’s world there is a great confusion about what spiritual means and most people equate the mental with the spiritual. That means if anything makes me feel good, if anything makes me feel calm, if anything makes me feel positive, they say it is spiritual. So before I was introduced to bhakti, I used to attend the talks of one spiritual teacher and he would say, he would have an exercise of projection.
He says, imagine that you are sitting on the banks of a river. The river is flowing smoothly in front of you. You can see the mountain on the other side.
You can feel the fresh wind blowing in your face. You feel your muscles relaxing. You take in the beauty of the mountain, the vast sky, the greenery.
You take it in. You are feeling calm. You are feeling peaceful.
You are feeling spiritual. Now, actually if you do an exercise like this, we will feel calm. We will feel calm, no doubt.
So once we were doing this exercise and suddenly in the neighbourhood a firecracker blew up. Boom! So everybody was jolted out of it. So there are two distinct things which are conflated.
When people conceive of spirituality, there is pacification of emotions and there is purification of emotions. Pacification of emotions means my mind, my desires, my emotions are going wild. I am craving for this thing.
I am worried about that thing. I am angry with this person. I am resentful about what is happening.
And these kind of projection exercises or many other exercises which go on largely in what is called as mindfulness nowadays. It all focusses on the pacification of emotions. And pacification of emotions is good when the emotions are agitated.
But this again brings us to the mode of goodness. It is not inherently spiritual. So if we are to truly become peaceful, we don’t just need pacification of emotions.
We need purification of emotions. Purification means our emotions need to be directed from the world to Krishna. So to the extent we become attached to Krishna, to that extent whatever happens in this world, we will not be shaken so much by it.
The Bible talks about the peace that passeth all understanding. Why is it called the peace that passeth all understanding? Because many times when we become spiritual, sometimes being spiritual doesn’t appear very peaceful, externally speaking. Many of the greatest saints, they face a lot of trouble.
They face persecution in the world. So from the material perspective, if we look at the Pandavas, their life was filled with tribulation. But what was happening? Because they were internally connected with Krishna.
Internally they were sheltered in Krishna. So they did not get affected by it. In fact to such an extent, one of the most extraordinary prayers in the Bhagavatam is by Kunti Maharani in the same first canto, in the first canto 8 chapter 25th verse.
So whenever I quote this verse, I give a caveat. In Krishna I am only quoting this verse, I am not offering this prayer. So Kunti Maharani prays that, Oh Lord, let more calamities come in my life.
Let more calamities come in my life. Because when the calamities come, then I can see you, I can become absorbed in you, I can feel your shelter. And experiencing your shelter means that we no longer experience this world and its miseries and its pleasures.
We just go beyond this world. So that is actually purification of emotions. Now we do need pacification of emotions also.
And whatever is required for that we may do it. Like we try to have warm interactions with each other, we try to take care of the physical needs, we try to take care of the emotional side. This is important.
But it is not all important. I will conclude with this metaphor now, about pacification of emotions and purification of emotions. That much of what goes on in the name of spirituality today centres on the pacification of emotions.
But often most of the spirituals is they have no conception or no clear conception of any spiritual reality to which one is to get attracted. And that’s why they, okay you have a peaceful mind, but what after that? No, I will peacefully die. And I will peacefully take birth again.
So what is the ultimate solution? So the pacification of emotions is like the painkiller. And the purification of emotions is like the actual medicine. So ideally that should be both.
Ideally when the doctor gives treatment, the doctor gives the painkilling medicine and the doctor gives the curative medicine also. So that’s why when we practise bhakti, we want to have warm cordial relationship with each other, we want the temple to be a peaceful serene place, we want to live in the mode of goodness overall. So that our dealings, there is pacification.
We don’t get unnecessarily agitated. And along with the pacification, that is like the painkiller, the real medicine is the practise of bhakti. That leads to the purification of dharma.
Mayi asakta manaha. We get attached to Krishna. And when both of these are together, then our bhakti can be as less difficult as is possible in this world.
There is always difficulty. When we are sick and we are taking treatment, there is always difficulty. But if there is only, if the painkiller is not administered, then it becomes quite painful.
So the treatment is still happening and we are getting cured. But without the painkiller, the treatment will be more painful to continue on with. Unfortunately for many of us, in our practise of bhakti, sometimes just the nature of this material world is that the pacification of emotions may not be there.
Sometimes we feel that in devotee association, there is more agitation. Sometimes devotees criticise each other, find fault with each other. Sometimes some devotees are judgemental.
And when that happens, we feel, what am I doing over here? Sometimes we may feel that if non-devotees are in the mode of goodness, we may feel they seem to be better. But that is like, if because of that thing we start thinking non-devotees are better and we give up devotee association, then that is like giving up the medicine just because there is no painkiller. Now it is the responsibility that we also try to have painkillers.
But if there are no painkillers, still we take the medicine. So sometimes in our practise of bhakti, our mind may get agitated also. Because of our responsibilities, because of our relationships, because of our roles.
Overall, we need to have a stable way of living by which it is not that the mind is constantly agitated. But periodically, intermittently agitations will come. And if we start taking the agitation of the mind too seriously, we start thinking, what is this bhakti doing for me? I am doing so much chanting, I am doing so much seva, but still I am agitated.
That agitation is only at the mental level. At the spiritual level we are connected. And the more we become strongly connected at the spiritual level, the mind may be agitated, but still we will be able to push aside the mind and focus on Krishna and move on towards Krishna.
Somebody may speak harshly to us and that will actually hurt us. But the more we think about what they are speaking, the more we will get agitated. But if we are having a purposeful service for Krishna, okay, this person spoke this, it hurt me, but I am not going to dwell on it.
I have more important things to do in my life. And with that purposeful focus, even if the agitation is there, that agitation will stay for some time, it will go away. And in that way, we will be able to progress towards Krishna.
So, whatever duties we do, the purpose of it all is to help us develop attraction towards Krishna. And when that happens, then that is supremely auspicious. Even if at a material level there is some difficulty, some pain, some inauspiciousness, if we are connected with Krishna and we are progressing towards Krishna, then that is supremely auspicious.
I spoke today about how the Bhagavatam declared love for Krishna, Bhakti as the topmost. In 1.2.6, in 2.7 it said that Jnana will automatically emerge from Bhakti. And now Karma, it says, is of no use, doing one’s duties of no use, if it does not lead to increasing our love for God.
I talk about the difference between piety and spirituality. In piety, God is a portion of our life. In spirituality, God is the purpose of our life.
In piety, the reference point is this world. And if our conception of religion is tainted by ignorance, we’ll be fearful. God will create some trouble for me, better let me worship Him.
In pious passion, I want things which I cannot get by myself, so I’ll pray to God. So we need to approach God in a level of desire. And in goodness, God has already done so much for me.
Our own body, as an example, it’s so expensive to maintain the body. It’s God who is doing it for us, so let me worship Him. But in all these, the reference point is the world.
And we grow spiritually when our basic reference point becomes God. So if God is a tool to something in this world, then our devotion is motivated and then it will be interrupted. If whatever we want in this world is fulfilled, then we’ll thank God and again we’ll de-intensify our bhakti.
Or if we don’t, if it is not fulfilled, then we’ll just reject God. What is the use of worshipping God? And this elevation of consciousness to making God the purpose of our life, that happens through philosophical understanding and then through devotional purification. So I talked about how by living piously, we may get a better material life in this world or in the next world.
So most religions talk about going to heaven. That’s a place they look up to. But in bhakti, heaven is not just a place we look up to, it’s a place we look up from.
There is something higher to go to. This material world is like a 14 story building, in which 7 floors are above and 7 levels are below. And the world which we are in is like the easiest way to get out from.
There is a right balance between not too much distress and not too much pleasure. Like say sitting and doing japa while we are on a chair of thorns, that’s like living on hellish planets. And doing japa while we are having a feast in front of us, that’s like heavenly planets.
But there is a balance. And so by being pious, we may go to a better material situation. By being spiritual, we get liberated.
And lastly I talked about the mind. The spiritual is beyond the materially good and it is also beyond the mind. Many forms of what people call as spirituality, they focus on pacification of the mind.
But even with a peaceful mind, if you are not attached to Krishna, if there is no Vishwaksena, Katasuya or Rati, then we stay in this world. So that’s why there is purification of emotions that happens by bhakti alone. And the pacification of emotions is like a painkiller.
Purification of emotions is like the real medicine. And ideally we should have both. But suppose somehow the pacification of emotions is not there, that does not mean that the process of bhakti is not working.
Purification is happening and we need to tolerate that pain and still persevere in bhakti. And thus we will attain Krishna. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. So we may ask devotees, are we motivated because we also want to go to the spiritual world which is free from misery and which is filled with happiness? There are different levels of motivation. And for us as devotees, the operating principle is given by Rupa Goswami, ye na ke na prakarane manha krishna nivishyate.
Somehow or the other fix the mind on Krishna. That is the first thing. But then what is the difference between say the pious people who also fix their mind on Krishna and devotees who fix their mind on Krishna? The pious people are not following any sadhana for developing their attraction towards Krishna.
Devotees follow a systematic spiritual discipline. Chanting, studying, worshipping the deities, associating with devotees, going to holy places. These are the five potent forms of devotional service.
And by these, bhakti-schena-naula-rakshana, create a bhagavatyadha, these actually increase our attraction towards Krishna. So right now while we are practising bhakti, we may not be so much motivated by simply the desire to love Krishna for Krishna’s sake. But right now we are actually progressing towards that.
And the test of our seriousness or the purity of our devotion will be when we face difficulties. If we are practising bhakti simply for getting relief from difficulties, then if within bhakti difficulties come, what do we do? We just give up bhakti. But if we keep practising bhakti, even when there are difficulties, then that means we are practising bhakti for some higher purpose.
At the sadhaka stage, it is, Prabhupada, a disciple told Prabhupada that, Prabhupada, I want to serve you life after life. Prabhupada says, don’t make me come back life after life to accept your service. So what Prabhupada meant is that at our stage, it’s good to aspire to get out of this world.
But at the same time, there is the understanding that there is a devotee, why do devotees want to go back to the spiritual world? It is not just so that we will be free from misery. Rather, in the spiritual world, we can do better service. In this world, the body falls sick, body grows old, the material world is filled with limited resources.
So even when we want to serve Krishna, we can’t serve him as well as we would like to in this world. So for a devotee, whether it is in this world or the spiritual world, the purpose of the relationship is loving service. And that love will develop more and more.
If we think that by going to the spiritual world, I will enjoy over there. Many of these, you see in the Abrahamic religions, the Christians often talk about books which describe pictures of heaven. But in heaven, they have only men, women and children.
It’s like a perpetual family reunion. But there is no God over there. And if you consider Islam, many of these jihadis, they believe that if they kill themselves, if they kill others as suicide bombers, they will go to heaven.
And if they will go to Jannat, and they will enjoy 73 virgins over there. So you know, where is Allah over there? Only they are there and their virgins are there with them. They are all nuns.
So if our conception is not that I want to go there and I will enjoy, if our understanding is that in the spiritual world you want to serve and there I will be able to serve better, then that is not materially motivated, that is not selfishly motivated. The Bhagavatam also talks about how Krishna is our ultimate self-interest. So we have an enlightened self-interest that is Krishna.
So there is for a devotee, there can be the desire for doing, for getting something, which can be the purpose of love and which can also be the result of love. See, when we have a material understanding of bhakti also, the purpose of bhakti is to go to the spiritual world. But for a devotee, actually bhakti is the essence, service is the essence, and going to the spiritual world is the result which will enable us to do better service.
So that’s why we have prayers where the devotees say that, mam janmani janmani ishvare bhavataad bhakti. My lord, if I am to serve you, I am ready to serve you in this world, life after life also. The important thing is service.
And because the spiritual world offers us better facilities, so we aspire to go to the spiritual world. Did I answer your question? Okay, thank you.