Shouldn’t the desire for sense gratification go down in those who are advancing in Krishna consciousness?

When Prabhupada says the desire for sense gratification will go down if we advance it spiritually. Again, the desire for sense gratification is a very broad term. It is very, very difficult to know what is someone's actual desire.

All that we can see is their actions. So, we have Bhakti Sadhanshu Thakur, when he would be given prasad, he would actually mix all the food together. And he would say, I don't want my tongue to taste sense gratification.

Now, Prabhupada, when he was given rice and dal, he would take rice separately, dal separately. So, savor every food item. Prabhupada says, every item of prasad is Krishna.

I want to relish Krishna. And Prabhupada spent a lot of time training his disciples in cooking. Prabhupada himself spent a lot of time in cooking.

Hyderabro writes that when he came to Krishna consciousness, he was first impressed by Prabhupada. He knew so many Sanskrit shlokas. But then Swamiji started cooking.

He found that his knowledge of recipes was as vast as his knowledge of shlokas. So, cooking is also part of our culture. There is so much description of what all items were cooked when.

And now, if somebody is cooking so nicely and serving food, and of course, if you cook and serve, you will also eat it, isn't it? But then, is that sense gratification? We don't know necessarily. So, basically, we have to look at what are the things that distract me from Krishna. And we try to manage that.

So, for some people, they might be able to see, there is a lot of delicious food, and they see Krishna in that food. And they say, okay, yes, this is the culture of Krishna Bhakti, we offer a lot of Bhoga to Krishna, and we take that and give that to others. For somebody, if there is a lot of delicious food, that might distract them from Krishna.

How do you know? This was that, this was that, this was that. So, we have to see our consciousness. And look at our consciousness and see, what are the things that distract me from Krishna, and how to deal with it.

So, as I said, in general, the things that distract us from Krishna should go down. And our attraction to Krishna should go up. And that will happen overall.

But if specific distractions are still remaining, then it might be just that, that particular conditioning in a person may be very depleted. But that is not, that doesn't mean that Bhakti is not working. That just means that, for them, that conditioning is depleted.

It's, it is, it is very difficult to reduce purification down to specifics. Because, say, what do I mean by this? For every, for different people, a particular conditioning may be of different strengths. Say, with respect to alcohol.

Many people nowadays say that, actually, why do I do so much against drinking? Drink, but don't become drunk. They say, drink, but don't become drunk. Drink in moderation.

So, it's like saying, go to the edge of the cliff, look down, but don't fall down. Why do that? It's possible that somebody will go to the edge of the cliff, and not fall down. But why take the risk? Now, some people say, some people have this attitude.

And now, when somebody is drinking, some people, they decide, I'm going to give up drinking, and they give up drinking. So, now some people may decide to give up drinking, and still, they will not be able to give up drinking. So, now, with respect to some habits like this, it is not just a particular habit.

You see, our every desire, every unhealthy desire, is often an unhealthy expression of a healthy need. An unhealthy expression of a healthy need. What do I mean by that? Say, some people might just be social drinkers.

That means, oh, in my friend circle, in my professional circle, everybody drinks, so I need to drink. Now, if they are professional drinkers, then, sorry, not professional drinkers, social drinkers, okay, if they are social drinkers, then, tomorrow, if their social circle changes, they start introducing a devotee circle, or a more pious circle, where they are not drinking, nobody drinks, they may just give up drinking. But, somebody might be drinking as an escape.

As a way to escape, to gain relief from life's problems. Now, if that is what is making them drink, even if they come to bhakti, and start practicing bhakti, the urge to drink, we still come upon them, and they still suck up. It's not that bhakti is not working, it's that they are drinking to fulfill a particular need.

The need was, when I get in a lot of trouble, I need some relief, I need some escape. Now, they need to find some healthier escape, some healthier way to address that need. So, if they like music, and then they just decide, okay, whenever I feel stressed, I'll just escape into kirtans.

This particular devotee is kirtan, this particular tune, this particular song. And when they find that healthier way, then this will go away. So, now, if we consider, say, this is indulgence, and this is abstinence.

Indulgence is that, if a person has a particular desire, they indulge it. Abstinence means they give up this desire. And then here is transcendence.

Indulgence, abstinence, and transcendence. Abstinence means, I decide I will not do this, and I am able to give it up. Transcendence means, I don't even have that desire, I don't even notice it.

Like many of us, say, if somebody offers us meat now, we will not be tempted, oh, I shouldn't be taking meat. We will not even feel any inclination towards it. Even if some of us might have been taking it before.

Because prasadam is higher taste. Isn't it? So, there can be, with some things, there might be abstinence. Somebody offers us some food, which is not properly offered, we still feel tempted, but I'll not take it.

So, there is indulgence, abstinence, and transcendence. These things. So, now, actually, for two human beings, the distance between indulgence and abstinence may not be the same.

For a person, for somebody, it might just be a straight line. Like for somebody who is a social drinker. Okay, this is indulgence, this is abstinence.

Just a straight line, you move forward from here to here. But for somebody who is habituated to drinking for a long time, in between indulgence and abstinence, there might be a big mountain. And for that person, the distance from here to here might be 50 or 100 times more than for the distance for this person who is straight.

So, for somebody, giving up certain things might be very easy. For somebody else, it might be very difficult. You see, somebody has grown up with a very insecure childhood.

Maybe, in the western world, this happens more and more. So, their parents were separated, their child was abandoned, or whatever. Then they have a lot of insecurity and fear.

Even when they come to bhakti, although we say, we may say that, but still, people may have insecurity. So, when that insecurity is there, it won't just go away automatically. But we may not even know.

I was with one, I was at a college program in America. I went and did a course over there, 5-6 programs I did. Came close to some students.

I was talking to one boy. He told me that he grew up in foster care. So, then I asked him, did your parents pass away in an accident or what happened? And he said, no, both my parents are alive.

I said, why are you in foster care? So, he said, when I was 5, my parents separated. And when they separated, both of them told me that this marriage was the biggest mistake of our lives. And, you remind me of that mistake.

So, both the parents told, we don't want anything to do with you. And this boy, despite having two parents, became an orphan. Became a ward of the state.

So, then, now he was telling me that, now he started coming to the temple, he started practicing, he says, whenever I hear God compared to a mother or a father, I just can't tolerate that. Now, normally we consider a mother and father to be Krishna Mata, Krishna Pitta, Krishna Dhanya Prana. We feel our devotion rising because of that.

But for somebody, there might be such negative impressions, we don't know. So, the point which I am making is, all of us are shaped by our impressions. Shaped by our experiences.

So, for a person, based on the kind of impressions that are there within them, the distance from indulgence to abstinence may vary a lot. So, somebody, maybe they were born and brought up in a very rough neighborhood, and they had to be tough, they had to be harsh. Like some people, you say, excuse me, and they move aside.

But some say, move aside. Move aside. Some people, they may have, get out of the way.

So, some people, that might be the culture they were brought up in, and that's the way they behave. They have no ill intention. But if somebody is expecting, excuse me, get out of the way, it might seem unbearably rude.

But that's the way they were brought up. And that's the way the impressions might be within them. So, the point I am making is, this is indulgence, this is abstinence.

So, if we are growing spiritually, we should move from indulgence to abstinence. But that distance may be very different for different people. And that's why if somebody has not moved from indulgence to abstinence, that doesn't mean that they are not sincere in their bhakti, that doesn't mean that they are not practicing bhakti, that doesn't mean that they are not advancing.

They may be advancing, but they may have to cover a huge journey. And that's why, don't be judgmental about this. Okay? Any other questions?