Spiritual Lessons from Car Driving 1 – The mind is the passenger, don’t let it become the driver

[Seminar at Fort Lauderdale, USA]

Video:

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Are there any questions? Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna. I’m grateful to be here amongst all of you today and I’ll speak, as is mentioned, I’ll speak on life lessons from car driving.
In the 11th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam, there is a section of the Avadhut Brahmana. He is a person who observes the world around himself. When he draws lessons from the sky, the moon, the river, the earth.
So, spiritual knowledge is about the spiritual level of reality. But, we have to live in this world. And to live in this world, we need to connect the spiritual knowledge with the knowledge that we have.
Usually, knowledge grows from the familiar to the unfamiliar. If, normally we think that I want to know some new things, but if the new is not connected with the old, then we have no reference point by which to fit the new into our existing frame of knowledge. So, for example, if I tell that today I will give a talk on the demographic trends of polar bears in Alaska.
How is that relevant to me? But, when if I say that actually these demographic trends indicate how climate change is affecting living beings. And from there we can infer how climate change is going to affect us. The hurricanes that are happening are a result of the same broad phenomenon of climate change.
Then, I want to know how grave is the effect or can anything be done about it. So, basically we have some familiar body of knowledge and we have some unfamiliar knowledge. So, our knowledge grows when the unfamiliar is connected with the familiar.
So, Ishwara Prabhupada himself was very expert at connecting the unfamiliar with the familiar. One time a hippie came to him in the early 1960s and he said, Swamiji, what is the bliss of the spiritual world like? This person was half stoned on drugs and Prabhupada could have quoted Brahma Samhita Chintamani Prakarasad Mashukal Pavruksha How there are desire fulfilling trees, there are Chintamani stones. That wouldn’t have made much sense.
So, Prabhupada told him, Oh, the spiritual world is like an ocean of LSD. They had the idea Oh, happiness means taking LSD and going high. So, if the ocean of LSD, I want to go there.
So, basically Prabhupada was expert that he presented the spiritual knowledge in terms that the audience could understand. In fact, in the first canto of Srimad Bhagavatam in a purpose, Prabhupada writes that realisation means that we present the knowledge in a way that is interesting to the audience. Now, what is interesting to the audience? Their interest to a large extent are already determined.
We can’t, we can create new interest in the audience. But they already have certain interest. So, whatever is the interest of the audience and whatever is the circle of spiritual knowledge, we have to find the intersection point of the two circles.
And then, from there when we are able to understand or appreciate or explain spiritual knowledge, then it becomes relevant. So, car driving is an eminently familiar activity for all of us. Either we drive a car or ride with someone in the car.
And, when we drive, at that time, we observe things, we see things. So, what I’ll try to do in this and the next three sessions is focus on different aspects of spiritual philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita by comparing it with certain aspects of car driving. Now, what is the most fundamental analogy that we use with respect to a car? So, the car is like the body and the soul is like the driver.
Yes. Now, all analogies that we use, analogies are like rubber bands. Suppose, there is some object which is not so easy to hold.
We put a rubber band around it, then the rubber band gives us a hold on it. So, the rubber band gives us a hold on something that may be difficult to hold. At the same time, if the rubber band is stretched too much, it breaks.
So, similarly, every analogy has a particular purpose. So, the purpose of the soul body analogy as compared to the car driver and the car is that to illustrate one point primarily. The point is that the body is not the source of animation.
The body is not the source of life. The body is insentient and life comes from something other than the body. A car may be there, but the car cannot function if there is no driver.
So, the point of the car body analogy is that the animating energy, the activating principle is not the insentient body. It is something more and that is the soul. So, recently I was giving a talk at a university and one student asked, now Google has made driverless cars.
does that mean that now there is no soul required in the body? No. The point is we may use the word like driverless cars, but actually all that it means is that the driver has less role. It is not that there is no driver.
The driver’s role is less and even if we say that a car drives itself on its own, but still the car is driven by a computer with artificial intelligence which has come from the intelligence of those who are experienced in driving. So, when we talk about the purpose of this analogy is to show that the activating principle is something different from the body. So, we have so many remote control devices now.
So, in a remote control device, to the uninformed vision, now a child may be sitting and suddenly the child sees, oh the toy car was there over there and now it started moving. Even the child may think it is moving automatically. But, there is a mechanism in it and that mechanism has been activated by somebody with a remote control.
The car has been keyed, not triggered and now it has been activated. So, when we don’t see a personal agency directly visible, all that it means is that there is some personal agency who is indirectly involved through remote. So, the purpose of the car body analogy is to illustrate that there is a non-material activating principle.
And, there is a Nobel laureate, neuroscientist, Rogers Perry. He has used a similar concept to talk about there is top-down causation and bottom-up causation. So, he says, what does that mean? He says, suppose there is an observer who is standing outside a garage and his observer sees that a car comes out of the garage and the car starts moving.
Car turns right and goes straight on the road and then goes for about half a mile, then again goes over a bridge, then turns left and goes into a hotel. Goes into a parking lot over there. Now, if we go from a mechanical perspective, what caused the motion of the car? What caused the car to move? The car moved because the wheels moved.
What caused the wheels to move? There was pressure applied on the wheels through the engine. So, what caused the engine to get activated? Oh, the ignition was activated. What caused that? Move backward, backward, backward.
Oh, the key was vertical. The key became horizontal. So, we could say, why did the car move? Because the key moved from the vertical position to the horizontal position.
Now, that’s one explanation. Another explanation could be, the driver was hungry and went to a hotel to eat food. So, the driver got into the car and the driver moved the key from the vertical to the horizontal position and then the mechanism got activated and the car went there.
Now, these two explanations, are they contradictory? No, they are complementary. We could have a bottom-up causation where we start from the mechanical parts that are interacting and we try to go to their source. Which is fine.
So, that is the correct explanation. But it is not a complete explanation. So, the complete explanation is that there was a conscious agent who desired to go somewhere and that conscious agent’s intention activated the car’s mechanism.
So, similarly for us, when we look at the body as a car, the body is a vehicle and this body is activated at different times. So, for example, right now I am speaking. So, you hear the sound of me speaking.
Now, if we go backwards, how is the sound coming? Because the mouth is moving. Why is the mouth moving? Oh, because the jaws are moving. Why are the jaws moving? Because the voice cord is moving.
So, the cause of the sound is the voice cords are moving in a particular way. And then, we may try to create a mechanism by which we can create artificial speech. So, artificial speech with the modulation of emotion that we have in normal human speech is very difficult.
But, we can have text-to-speech software which reads out the text. So, there what is happening is, the mechanism is replicated. But, when a human being speaks, there is something much more than a mechanism over there.
There is consciousness, there is intention, there is a person over there. Now, if a person, in the youth, if a person is exploring a relationship and somebody says, I love you, that, there is not just a sound over there. There is an intention over there.
Now, we can programme our computer, every time it starts, we can have it, a wake-up message. The computer says, I love you. Now, nobody is going to take that declaration of love as having any meaning.
It’s just a sound being uttered by a computer. So, the point is that there is a mechanism and that mechanism can be analysed, that mechanism can be replicated. And, that mechanism can be made in remote.
But, that mechanism does not mean that the mechanism is the complete explanation. So, even if we are hypothetically able to make entirely driverless cars, there is nothing special about it. Now, there are many spacecrafts which go into space which have no pilots in them.
So, if spacecrafts can orbit in space, why can’t cars go on the roads without a driver? But, the point is there is an animating principle, the driving intelligence, which is available elsewhere. So, for the spacecrafts, it is in the control centres. So, like that for the cars, it will be in the programmes.
the example of the car and the body is for underscoring one point that the activating principle is different from the body. It is non-material. Similarly, the body is made of material elements.
And the body itself is not active. There is something beyond the body that activates. And that is the soul.
Now, there is another metaphor which is used in our tradition for explaining motion with respect to the body-mind. It is a more traditional metaphor. What is that? It is like we have a car driver metaphor.
There is another metaphor. Yeah, chariot-body. Thank you.
So, what is the chariot compared to the body? What about other things? The horses are the senses. The reins are the mind. And then? Driver is the intelligence.
Yeah. So, and who is the passenger? The soul is the passenger. Yes.
So, now if you see, in this case, in the chariot-body analogy, it is in one sense very simple. The body, the soul is the driver. But here somebody else becomes the driver.
Who is the driver here in this analogy? The intelligence is the driver. And the soul is the passenger. And ideally speaking, the charioteer should be strong enough, skilled enough, to control the horses using the reins and direct the chariot where the passenger wants to go.
So, this analogy goes deeper. The purpose of this analogy is not just to tell us that the soul is the activating principle. This analogy is meant to illustrate how the soul interacts with the body.
There is a different purpose over there. And so, one of the major philosophical objections to the idea of a non-material soul in western philosophical thought was that if something is non-material, how can it affect the material? They have the idea that science or material nature is causally complete. That every material effect can be explained in terms of material causes.
So, there is no role for a non-material intervention. But, the understanding is that the soul is non-material and the soul’s consciousness is projected into the body. So, that means, if we consider this particular mechanism of the passenger and the driver, the passenger is not directly, physically controlling the charioteer.
The connection between the passenger and the charioteer is through consciousness, through instruction. I want to go there, take me there. When the passenger tells this, the charioteer hears it and it is the charioteer’s energy which steers the chariot.
So, in our philosophy the understanding is the soul is spiritual and the spiritual soul cannot directly control matter. But the spiritual soul’s consciousness gets projected into the body and the consciousness is projected into the body. At that time, the soul, based on what it identifies with, accordingly the soul, the body functions accordingly.
So, when the soul’s consciousness gets projected, the soul tells the charioteer, the soul, the passenger tells the charioteer, I want to go here. The soul tells the intelligence, I want to do this. Or sometimes, if we come to an unknown place, we just have an address, we don’t even know how to get there.
If we are hiring a cab, we just tell them the address, please take me there. So, like that, the soul sometimes consults the intelligence. Where should I go now? What should I do? But the connection between the soul and the charioteer, the soul and the intelligence is through consciousness, the projection of consciousness.
And then, the charioteer has to control the horses using the reins and then the chariot will go to the right destination. So, now I’ll adapt this analogy. This analogy’s purpose is what? To explain the interaction between the soul, not just the interaction between the soul, mind and body.
So, I’ll adapt this analogy for our driving purposes. And so consider that there’s a car, in the car there’s a driver and the passenger is sitting behind. And next to the driver is another person who is impulsive, who is a little intoxicated, who is who is very rash.
Now, the passenger wants to go to a particular destination. The driver is in charge. So, okay, let me this is the second stage of the analogy.
I’ll develop the analogy. Let’s assume that there are two persons only in the car. One person is the driver and the other person is somebody sitting next to it.
Now, when a person is driving, say a mother is driving with a child. Now, children are often very restless. The child is driving and the mother is driving and the child says, Mummy, look at that! You see that? What is that? Look at that! Now, the mother starts looking wherever the child says, look there, look there.
Now, that will cause that is dangerous. That will cause an accident. The child may say, Mummy, let’s go to this movie, let’s go to this shop, let’s go to this park.
Now, the mother has to decide, should I go or should I not go? That is up to the mother to decide. So, the mother is in the driver’s seat. The wheels are in the mother’s hands.
The child will say, let’s go here, let’s do this, let’s do this. The mother decides whether to do it or not. So, similarly for us, we as souls are like the driver and the mind is like the child next to us.
Krishna uses the word chanchala several times to describe the mind. Arjuna uses the word chanchala and Krishna also uses the word chala. Chanchala means restless, constantly restless.
So, chanchala is also an adjective used to describe children. So, the mind is restless like a child and the mind keeps coming up with ideas. Come on, eat this, watch this, touch this, buy this, do this and we receive those ideas.
So, it is for us to decide whether we are going to accept the ideas or not. The mind can the mind can only propose. It cannot impose.
The mind can only propose. It can’t impose. That means like the child, the child can’t push the mother away and get on the driver’s wheel and start driving the car.
The child can, let’s do this, let’s do that, let’s do that. However, there is a difference. Krishna uses the word chanchala.
Arjuna uses the word chanchala to describe the mind, but he uses several other describers also. In 6.34, he says chanchalam himanha krishna pramathi bala badrudham asyaham nigraham manye vayoriva sudhushkaram He says the mind is chanchala, it’s restless, but it’s not just childish. Prama chanchalam himanha krishna pramathi It’s very agitating.
And what is agitating? Balavad. Very powerful. It’s not like a small child who can be easily controlled.
Sometimes when small children are restless, they can be controlled. But if a teenager goes high on drugs and then becomes uncontrolled, controlling that teenager is much more difficult. Balavad.
Drudham. Drudham means the word drudha can be used in a positive sense to refer to determination. But when that same energy is misdirected towards something undesirable, then that is called not as determination, but as stubbornness or obstinacy.
Determination means I want this, I want this, I want this. But if it is good and it is difficult to get and we persevere in trying to get it, then that is determination. That is positive.
But if it is harmful for us and still we want it, others say no, don’t take it. But still we want it. Want it.
Want it. And that is obstinacy. So, Ravana, we are celebrating Diwali now, and Ravana exemplified obstinacy.
So many people told him, you know, don’t keep an evil eye on Sita. Don’t antagonise Ram. You’ll be destroyed by that.
Maricha told him that. Akampan was one of his generals. He also told him that.
His own father told him that. Vibhishan told him that. Even Kumbhakarna actually told him.
But he didn’t listen. So, when we hold on to something which is harmful, that is obstinacy. So when Krishna is using the word, when Bhagavad Gita is using the word dhrudam, it is in that sense of obstinacy.
So, the mind is like a very… Okay, something’s wrong. It’s fallen off. It’s got discharged? Okay.
Am I audible behind? Oh, we have another one? Okay. So, the mind is very powerful. And when it is very powerful, what happens? It can propose, so persuasively, so forcefully that it’s almost as if we have no choice.
So, the mind can propose. Come on, do this. Why not do this? Do this.
Do this. And, if the child, as I said, the person sitting next to the car driver, that person takes control. That means the car driver starts obeying.
Come on, let’s do this. Let’s do that. Wherever the child wants, the car starts going.
The car will not go to the destination. So, like that, the mind starts proposing. Come on, do this.
Do this. Do this. And we start accepting it.
Then, when we start accepting it, we become misled. When we say that something has become a habit or even stronger, habits can be positive, it can be negative. When you talk about something becoming an addiction, then what exactly has happened at that time? Actually, every time we do something, it is not only the action that is done.
Along with that, an inclination is created. So, that means, if, say, the floor is flat over here, if water falls on it, water will just stagnate over here. And we can just wipe it away.
But, if the floor is inclined, then as soon as water falls, the water will flow in the direction of the inclination. Similarly, for us, whenever we do something repeatedly, our, we could say, our mental floor starts getting inclined in that direction. So, for example, if we have never heard of a particular food item and somebody says, would you like to eat this? Now, we have not heard about it, we have no information about it, we have no attraction to it.
So, okay, I may, I may not, it’s fine, whatever it is. So, it’s like, at that case, the water has fallen in the consciousness, but because there is no particular inclination, so, the water doesn’t flow in that direction. But suppose, somebody likes a particular food item, say, somebody likes halwa, and then we hear, after the programme, there is halwa.
Before the programme, we hear that after the programme, there is halwa. Then what happens? Because we have that attraction to halwa, the inclination is that, it might just be three words, you know, we have halwa today, four words. They just go into the consciousness, and then the consciousness is flowing in that direction.
Okay, when can I get the halwa? When can I get the halwa? So, because we are attracted to that, because we like that, because we are attached to that, so, our mental floor gets inclined in that direction. And when we are inclined towards something, the consciousness naturally flows in that direction. We don’t have to make any effort for it to flow.
It automatically flows. In fact, when the floor is inclined, not only, when the floor is inclined, not only do we not need to make any effort to get it to flow in that direction, we need effort to not let it flow in that direction. If the water is flowing in this direction and I don’t want it to flow, if I have some electronic item over here, which I don’t want to get wet, then I’ll have to make effort to push the water in the other direction.
So, this is the meaning of inclination. When we are inclined, our thoughts naturally flow in that direction. So, going back to the metaphor of the car driver and the passenger sitting next.
So, when we do something repeatedly, it is as if the balance of power between the passenger and the driver starts shifting. Normally, the balance of power is the driver is in control and the passenger is okay, I’ll take your suggestion. I’ll take your suggestion into consideration.
I may do it or I may not do it. But the more we become habituated to something, then the balance of power shifts. The balance of power shifts more and more towards the passenger and less and less towards the driver.
When we are habituated to something, then we tend to do it unthinkingly. As soon as the idea comes in our mind, we do it. We don’t stop to think should I do it, should I not do it? The idea comes and we do it immediately.
So, this is how the passenger becomes the controller of the driver. Although the driver is still in control of the car, but the balance of power has shifted, the passenger suggests and immediately the driver obeys. So, some examples to illustrate this.
With the sedentary lifestyles that we have, with often the fatty food that we eat, obesity is a big problem for many of us. So, when people try to diet, researchers have found some interesting things about dieting. They say that if a person has decided I am going to eat very healthy food, if I get a what is called, if I get a snack attack, if I get an attack by desire to eat a snack, then I will keep some healthy food.
I will keep an apple, I will keep some salad, I will keep some vegetable, I will eat something healthy. And they make that resolution and they will eat that healthy food. But suppose we are working on a table and in the drawer below, in one drawer we have some healthy food, in another drawer we have some fatty food.
Now, if we are conscious, if we are aware of what we are doing, okay, I am hungry, okay, I will eat this salad. So, we will just go and take that salad. But, if we are busy doing something else, we are talking with someone on phone, we are working on the computer, we are surfing something on our device, at that time, the snack attack comes.
So, at that time, even without thinking, our hand will go to the drawer in which the fatty food is there. And then we will eat it and say, hey, what did I do? I have planned not to eat this, what happened? So, here, what has happened is that the habit of eating and not just the habit of eating, the attachment to eating a particular kind of food, that makes us inclined to eat that food. So, although I have the choice, theoretically, what I should eat, but if I am habituated to eating a particular food, then by default, I will go towards that food.
So, in a sense, when a person becomes habituated or even worse, addicted to something, does the addict have free will? What do you think? Does the addict have free will? Yes? Empowered by the addiction. Empowered by the addiction, that’s interesting. Yes.
Now, alcoholic has free will whether to drink whisky or brandy. Not whether to drink or not. Or, you could say, the alcoholic has the free will whether I should take five drinks or six drinks.
But not whether I should drink or not. So, our free will is never taken away from us. But depending on how we use that free will, the scope of the free will expands or the scope of that free will decreases.
So, somebody who has hardly ever drunk, say, no, I am not going to drink today. They may decide that. And car driving, drinking, driving under influence is extremely dangerous.
So, sometimes people know that there is a huge amount of fine that I will get if I am caught. It can be loss of life if I drive irresponsibly. But still, people drive under influence.
Why? Because they are addicted over there. So, when a person is addicted, they have free will, but the scope gets reduced very much. When a person is not addicted, the free will is much, much more.
The free will is never taken away. But the scope can get reduced by misuse and it can be increased by use. So, that means, going back to the driving example, that when the driver keeps listening to the passenger, come on, let’s watch this, let’s go here, let’s turn this way, let’s turn that way, let’s go this way, let’s go that way, when the driver keeps doing that again and again, the balance of power shifts more and more towards the passenger.
And when the passenger suggests after that, the driver just can’t say no. Although the driver is in charge and theoretically the driver can say no. But, it’s not that easy.
Because the force of habit comes over there. Oscar Wilde was a British author and he said, giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world. I have done it over a hundred times.
So, if I have given it over a hundred, given it a hundred times, why do I have to give it up? Give it up once is enough. I give it up, but it doesn’t give me up. It catches me again.
I give it up again, it catches me again. So, what happens is that in this case, the habit becomes so strong that theoretically I can say that I’m going to give it up. But next time the temptation comes, I just can’t give it up.
I just succumb to it. So, the more the driver listens to the passenger, the passenger becomes stronger. And the driver, although still in charge of the vehicle, the driver can’t operate the vehicle according to one’s own will.
So, for us, we all have certain habits, certain attachments, and sometimes somebody tells us, you have to give up this. I can’t give up this. How can I live without this? So, the more the attachment becomes stronger, the more it seems irresistible.
And, in principle, we always have freedom. In practise, the scope may be very less. So, the driver is always in control of the wheels.
This is where spirituality can help us become more and more empowered. So, while driving, even if the driver is going to follow the passenger, the driver follows the passenger using one’s own intelligence. Because, in driving, it is the driver who is the expert.
You know, the passenger may say, okay, I want to go here. Yeah, I’ll take you along the way. He says, no, go along this way.
The driver says, no, I know this is one way. I cannot go this way. We’ll go this way.
So, ideally, the driver and the passenger should work cooperatively. But, the driver is the person who should be driving the car, who should be in control of the car, who should take the decisions. So, similarly, we as souls are the decision makers.
The mind is the proposer. And, we need to be aware of this difference. So, when an idea comes within us, come on, eat this.
Come on, let’s go. Let’s see this. Let’s touch this.
Let’s do this. Let’s do that. At that time, when an idea comes inside us, sometimes we think that, okay, now this desire has come.
I have to do it. What can I do? No, it is not just because the desire has come, I have to do it. I can say no to it.
One of my friends is a very, he was a bodybuilder earlier. And then, he got a very bad fracture. He got injured.
And then, he was in the bed. So, at that time, he just couldn’t move even his hand. And then, when he his fracture started healing, the doctor told him, now you have to do exercise.
He says, are you joking? He says, I can’t even lift my hand. With this hand, I could lift 20, 30, 40 kg weights. And now, I can’t even lift my hand.
He says, what exercise can I do? So, doctor said, can you move your fingers? He said, yeah, I can move one finger. He said, okay. He says, moving this finger like this, 10 times a day, morning, afternoon, evening, this is your exercise.
He says, what? Is exercise when you go to gym and lift weights? What is this lifting a little finger? That’s not exercise. He says, no, this is your exercise. Do this every day.
He says, this is ridiculous. He says, now do this. They started doing this.
What happened? Gradually, the muscles started becoming active. First, it was one finger. Then, it was all the fingers.
Then, the palms started rising. Then, the forearms started rising. Then, the whole arms started rising.
So, at that point, when the hand is fractured, the normal level of exercise may seem impossible. But that doesn’t mean nothing is possible. Even within that weakened condition, something is possible.
So, we all have our attachments. And, it may be very difficult to give up the attachments. But, we can start somewhere.
Okay, what can I do right now? If I say that, okay, I’ll fast nirjoron ekadashi. Within, by 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock, it’s like a whole army of rats just screaming in my stomach. Come on, eat, eat, eat.
I can’t do that. Okay. If that is not possible for me, that’s fine.
But, let me see what I can do. Okay, instead of taking my meal at 9 o’clock, I may take a meal at 12 o’clock. I’ll fast till noon.
Instead of taking three meals a day, I may take two meals a day. So, we have to find out what is practical for us. And, start with that.
So, we can change this balance of power which has shifted towards the passenger. We want to get it back towards the driver. And, that has to begin with small incremental steps.
So, whatever we can do at our level, we start that. And, gradually, we start developing more and more discernment. Discernment means we start becoming more and more alert.
So, I’ll talk about three steps by which the driver can gain control again. But, before I do that, I’ll move back and develop this analogy a little bit more. I said earlier that we could conceive that there is a driver, there is a passenger ahead, and there is a passenger behind.
So, actually, Yes, sir? My question to you is that when you talk about maya, that when on spiritual life, maya’s job is to make sure, purify you or whatever, is it right to say then that that maya is actually, maya is probably the mind, because when you are trying to do something spiritually, and you get obstacles on the way, the mind says do this, blah, blah, blah, you get affected by maya. Is it right to say that maya is your mind? Okay, good question. And the driver? Yes.
So, can we say that maya is practically the mind which is actually controlling the driver? Yes, definitely. Maya and the mind practically are identical. Philosophically or conceptually, they are two different things.
Maya is the energy of the Lord. She is like the… She is also a devotee. She is also a devotee, but her purpose is to test the soul’s sincerity.
Practically, philosophically, the mind, maya is a particular energy. Mind is a thing within us. It’s a subtle body.
It’s a thing within us. It’s like if we have the computer. In the computer, there’s the hardware, software and the user.
So, the software is like the mind. The hardware is the body, the soul is the user. So, the mind and maya, in terms of concept or object, they are two different things.
But in terms of practical effect, they are essentially the same. So, maya acts on us through our mind. So, even when there are certain objects externally that allure us, it is only when those objects are perceived, not just by the senses, but by the mind.
That’s when we get captivated, we get attracted. So, for example, if I come into a room, there’s some delicious food item over there, but I’m in a big hurry. I have to go to catch a flight and I’m looking for where is my ID card.
I look around and I see that halwa, but it doesn’t register in me. I see it, but I look where is my ID card. I look at the ID card, take it and go away.
So, I saw that tempting object, but it didn’t register in the mind. So, if it doesn’t register in the mind, there is no temptation that happens. On the other hand, if it registers in the mind somehow.
See, the mind can get activated in two ways. One is through external perception and the other is through internal recollection. So, if the mind gets activated through internal recollection, somehow I remember, halwa is so nice.
Then, even if there is no halwa anywhere around me, I’ll go and find some shop where I can get halwa or I’ll go and myself cook the halwa and I’ll eat it. So, the point is that the temptation is not in the object. The temptation is in the mind of the subject.
The subject is the person who is observing. And when Krishna talks about kama, he talks about kama can be translated as lust or it can be translated as broadly selfish material desire. Krishna doesn’t say that kama is situated in any object.
He says, Indriyanimano buddhir asyadishthanam uchyate, etair vimohaya tesha gyanama vrityadhenam. In 3.40, he says that in the senses, in the mind and even in the intelligence, this kama is situated. So, desire is situated in our own consciousness in the subtle body.
So, practically speaking, maya cannot attack us without attacking the mind. So, maya attacks us only when she attacks the mind. And in that sense, because maya always attacks us through the mind, so we can say that maya and the mind are practically the same.
Yeah, that’s true. So, is it that because the maya and the mind are the same, so that’s why the mind is very difficult to control? Yes, definitely. There are 2-3 aspects to this.
First is that the mind has enormous energy within it. That energy can be used constructively, it can be used destructively. And another point is the mind is essential for us.
In the sense that, although in this particular metaphor, I talked about how the mind is the passenger sitting next to us. But if you consider the chariot body metaphor, the mind is actually the reins. And without the reins, you cannot control the horses.
So, the mind is essential for us. I will develop that analogy a little later and I’ll talk about that. That’s what I’m going to do.
But the point is, we cannot perceive anything but through the mind. Even when we want to serve Krishna, we want to behold the beautiful form of Krishna, at that end, mind is involved. The mind is basically the integrator of the inputs from the senses.
Krishna says that actually, all the five senses, they are centred around the mind. And the soul perceives what is on the screen of the mind. So, in that sense, for us to perceive anything in the world, the mind is required.
Like earlier I said that I may see a halwa, but if it doesn’t register in the mind, I practically don’t see it. You see, sometimes people are absent-minded. Absent-minded means what? Not that the mind is absent.
The mind is always there. But it is absent where the body is present. So, that’s why sometimes when a class is going on for a long time, our mind goes off for a walk.
And then, if there’s a joke that happens, the mind goes, hey, what happened? So, the mind wants to enjoy. So, it wants to come back. So, basically, when you say absent-minded, that means the mind is not present where the body is present.
And if the mind is not present where the body is present, then no conscious perception happens. So, that’s why we need the mind. So, the mind is difficult to control.
Firstly, because it is very energetic. Krishna says that, Indriyana manastyasmi. Among the senses, I am the mind.
Secondly, it is essential for us. And thirdly, it is very malleable. So, whatever are the influences that are put on it, it accepts those influences.
And therein lies our hope also. That if we expose it more and more to devotional impressions, it will be shaped accordingly. When I say it’s malleable, it’s not easily malleable.
It is difficult to mould it according to new impressions. But the point is, it’s mouldable. So, in the past, because it has been exposed to a lot of materialistic stimuli, that’s why it has become moulded materialistically.
And that’s why it’s very difficult to resist it. Ultimately, as you said that it is, that the mind is the primary agent through which maya is acting. And Krishna uses the same do.
The Gita uses the same do, means difficult. So, daiviyayasyamagunamai mammaya duratyaya. It’s very difficult to control.
And, chanchalamahi manakrishna pramathi balavadrudham tasyaham nigraham manye vayorivasujyoksharam asamshayam mahabaho mano durnigraham charam. When Krishna tells Arjuna, he says that, yes, durnigraham. Same adjective, same prefix he uses.
Here also that. Oh, it’s very very difficult to control. So, any other questions? Now, mind is three reasons why it is difficult to control.
Yeah, it’s very energetic. It is essential for us. And it is very mouldable.
And we have moulded it wrongly in the past. The children have a lot of energy. Isn’t it? A lot of energy.
If the child gets attached to a particular activity, then all its energy goes in that direction. And so like that. Yes.
Thank you. Yeah. So now, it’s said that in Kali Yuga, the same person.
Yes. Firstly, it is not just in Kali Yuga. It is always there.
Even in Satyuga, we all have a lower side and a higher side. That inner conflict is always there in everyone. And we could broadly say that we have a mind which is impulsive, we short-sighted.
And we have an intelligence which is meant to be farsighted. Which is meant to think calmly and then decide things. that was what I was developing, the metaphor over here.
That we could say that within us, there is the mind and there is the intelligence. And the intelligence is meant to control the mind. So, going back, that if there is a passenger who is sitting behind, who is like the owner or the boss, and there is a person who is sitting ahead, another passenger, and another person is the driver.
So, we could say that the driver is like the intelligence. And the other passenger is like the mind. And the passenger sitting behind is the soul.
So, basically for us, if you see there is one verse in the Bhagavad Gita 6.5, whose literal translation can be literally confusing. The verse is Krishna says that elevate the self with the self, don’t degrade the self with the self, because the self is the friend of the self and the self is the enemy of the self. What is the self? It can seem like a very bewildering verse.
So, here when Krishna is saying elevate the self with the self. What does he mean by this? Prabhupada translates that one self refers to the mind, the other self refers to the soul. So, he says that we should elevate ourselves with the mind and not degrade ourselves.
The mind is our friend and the mind is our enemy also. So, what this means is that the mind is inside us and the mind is going to propose certain things to us. And we can either choose to act accordingly or we can resist.
So, if we act according to what the mind says, we go down. If we resist what the mind says, then we go up. And in this dynamic, the two forces that are there within us, we could say at one level it is the soul and the mind, but the mind is saying one thing, the soul is saying another thing.
Or another level we could say it is the mind and the intelligence and the soul chooses. So, for example, say, we set alarm in the morning and we go to sleep at night. And then the alarm rings.
As soon as the alarm rings, there is something that says, go to sleep. Switch off the alarm and go to sleep. Now, if we have been very determined, no, I want to get up.
Then, although we may get that voice, go to sleep. I want to wake up. Some other voice may say within us.
So, actually we have these multiple voices within us and depending on which voice we listen to, I want to wake up. Although I am feeling tired now, if I just wash my face, if I take a bath, I will be fresh. So, let me wake up now.
So, then we hear the voice of the intelligence. Or, I will sleep now. Just go to sleep once again.
So, you know, in most alarms, now we of course have digital alarms. In the past, we had analogue keys, you know. So, in most alarms, there was a survey that was done.
They found that the alarm key would not need to be replaced as regularly as the snooze key. Because the snooze button was operated much more time. We set an alarm probably once a day.
But snooze, maybe you keep snoozing once, twice, thrice, four times, like that. So, if we listen to the mind, then we get carried away. So, there is the mind within us, there is the intelligence within us.
And we need to listen to the voice of the intelligence. We need to train ourselves to listen to the voice of the intelligence. So, then we can act properly.
So, technically the intelligence is higher than the mind. But practically, like, the driver is supposed to be in charge, but the mind, if it becomes very, if the habit becomes very forceful, then it becomes difficult to resist it. In the Mahabharata, they say that, It says, I know this is the right thing to do.
I don’t feel like doing it. I know this is the wrong thing, but I don’t feel like not doing it. So, this is where the habits have become very strong.
So, we have our intentions and we have our emotions. So, our emotions come from our mind. And, our intentions, of course, they are meant to come from the soul, but we make a resolution.
I want to do this. Because it is good for me. It is helpful for me.
So, then that is coming from the intelligence. So, our intentions coming from the intelligence and our emotions coming from our mind, they often come in conflict with each other. And depending on which is stronger, that will determine who wins that inner battle.
So, we’ll have some more questions. Let me complete this flow of thought that I was going through. So, I talked about how will we be able to how do we gain control or change the balance of power between the passenger and the driver.
So, to become stronger, there are three steps. So, this is, I already mentioned once, intelligence, diligence and dependence. So, intelligence means that we have to consciously strengthen our analytical, rational, critical faculty.
So, for example, if somebody, for many people, they may be addicted to eating meat. But if they get a heart attack, then the doctor tells them, if you don’t want to get a heart attack again, you have to give up meat. And immediately, those same people say, I cannot live without meat.
They really now understand, I cannot live with meat now. They give it up. Why? Because at that time, in the intelligence, it is registered.
How harmful this is. I know, I may like the taste of meat, but I don’t want to lose my life for that. So, sometimes, when the intelligence gets nourished, one way of nourishing the intelligence is by understanding the consequence.
The mind doesn’t see the consequence so easily. The mind is impulsive. So, one way of nourishing the intelligence is by understanding and contemplating the consequence.
So, if we do that, then the intelligence starts becoming stronger. So, an alcoholic may think, you know, what happens if I drink? Just one drink, it never hurt anyone. But then, one drink doesn’t say one drink.
It becomes two, it becomes three. And if, say, an alcoholic sees somebody who is actually driven under intoxication and they went into a terrible accident, not only they got injured, but they killed someone else. And there is like a burden on their conscience, I killed someone.
They have to go to jail, they have to pay a fine. When we see the consequence, I don’t want to do this. I don’t want.
So, the intelligence becomes sober. The mind is very playful. The mind is childish and it is playful.
It thinks, whatever happens, we’ll see. Whatever happens, we’ll see. It is reckless.
But, when we actually see what happens, I don’t want this to happen to me. So, contemplating the consequence, first of all, understanding the consequences and contemplating the consequences, that strengthens the intelligence. And scripture is what gives us the eyes to see the consequence.
Now, one is, there are three levels. One is we ourselves go through the consequence. Second is that we see somebody else go through the consequence.
And third is we hear. So, experiencing ourselves, seeing and hearing. All these three are ways in which we can nourish our intelligence.
And of course, the hearing is the least painful. Seeing somebody suffer is painful. Experiencing ourselves is even more painful.
But either way, through all of these, we can learn. So, when we study scripture, we nourish our intelligence. And scripture tells us that, okay, the pleasures, that which tastes like nectar in the beginning, it will taste like poison in the end.
In 18.38, in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says that विषयेंद्रिय संयोगात यत्तदग्रे अम्रतोपमं परिणामे विषयमिव तत्सुखम्राज संस्रुतम् Krishna says, विषयेंद्रिय संयोगात The pleasure that comes by the contact of the senses with the sense objects, it may taste like nectar in the beginning. But, परिणामे विषयमिव, the result will be poison. And therefore, don’t indulge in it.
नतेशुरम तेबुध 5.22, Krishna says, the wise people don’t delight in it. So, by contemplating the consequence, we nourish our intelligence. Of course, this is a negative way.
That means, oh, I don’t want this to happen. So, I’ll not do it. There is also a positive way to nourish the intelligence.
That, okay, if I do this, what will happen? So, for example, if you practise the principles of bhakti, it’s not just that we’ll be saved from misery, but rather we’ll be raised to higher happiness. So, by controlling the mind, by harmonising it with our higher intentions, we can achieve something. We can actually experience spiritual happiness.
So, it’s like a child is saying, go here, go there. And the car gets into a traffic jam. The car gets into a, has an accident.
I won’t listen to this child. We’ll not, we’ll be saved of so much trouble. But not only that, we’ll get home faster.
If we just go straight on the road. And there are so many wonderful things we can do at home. So, we also need positive nourishment for the intelligence.
So, by studying scripture and understanding about the glory of Krishna, the glory of spiritual happiness, of how sweet Krishna is, how joyful absorption in Krishna is, that is also a consequence. Normally, we use the word consequence in a negative sense. You will have to bear the consequences.
That means you will have to suffer. You will have to get negative consequences. But positively also there are results.
So, normally we can use the word consequences for negative, results for positive. So, there is a fruit. The fruit of practise of bhakti, fruit of disciplining ourselves is very sweet.
Krishna Tiavra talks about that also. He says that yathad agre amrutopamam pariname yathad agre vishamiva pariname amrutopamam tat sukham sattvikam proktam atma buddhi prasadajam So, he says that which tastes like poison in the beginning will taste like nectar in the end. And that is the nature of higher happiness.
The process of bhakti is meant to provide us that kind of happiness. So, this is the two ways in which we nourish our intelligence. By contemplating the negative consequences and by contemplating the positive fruits.
That is the first step. Nourishing the intelligence is very important. Then there is diligence.
Diligence means I keep doing it. Even if I am not able to do it fully. I used to lift huge weights.
Now all that I can do is just lift my finger. But I keep doing that diligently. So, we may make a plan I am not going to do this or I am going to do this.
And we may fail. But diligence means we don’t give up. We keep persevering.
So, this is very much required because we all learn gradually. See, when a small baby starts taking her first steps and a baby falls. Does the mother get angry? Why did you fall down? Walking is so easy.
See, millions of people are walking. Why are you not walking? Mother gets angry. Mother understands.
This is a natural gradual process. The baby may fall now. But again encourage the baby to get up.
And then encourage the child to walk. And gradually she will start walking. So, like that now the child gets discouraged or the mother gets discouraged.
You will never be able to walk. Then the child will never learn. Child has to keep trying.
So, with respect to physical processes of growth, we all learn that we can’t learn automatically. It’s a step by step. It’s not that we are talking about car driving itself.
It’s not that first day somebody sits in a car and they just start driving smoothly. Most of the time when we learn to drive first, we may swerve off course. We may go into some other lane.
Instead of pressing the brake, we press the gas and the car just goes off. So, we all make mistakes. But through it we learn.
So, if somebody you know maybe they just hit the curb on the first time when they are driving and they get scared I’ll not drive again. And they will never learn to drive. But diligence.
That even if it doesn’t work out first time, second time, third time. There is a natural process of growth. Somehow with respect to our inner development, with respect to external skills, we understand there is a gradual learning curve.
But with respect to our inner development, with respect to our will power, we expect that there should not be any learning curve. There should be just one leap. I was here and tomorrow I’m there.
Yesterday I was attached. Today I’m detached. It doesn’t work like that.
It’s a gradual process. So, diligence is required. Even if I don’t succeed, let me keep trying again.
Sometimes what happens is we think of sense control as a product, not as a process. I made a resolution and I’m going to do this. And I do it for one week and then I decide I’m going to wake up early in the morning.
And one week I wake up and then after that I think that I’m just not able to wake up. Oh, my resolution failed. But instead of thinking that my resolution failed, seven days I succeeded.
So, it’s not that just because one day I failed, everything is lost. No, seven days I succeeded, that itself has strengthened my will power. So, it’s a gradual process.
So, diligence. Success or failure, just keep trying. So, the mind says, come on, do this.
No, I will not do it. Mind says, do it. Sometimes the mind may be so forceful that it will be difficult to resist.
But we keep trying. Trying to resist. Gradually, balance of power changes within.
So, diligence is vital for changing the balance of power internally between the driver and the passenger. So, keep saying no. Sometimes we push so forcefully, we can’t keep saying no.
We say yes. But keep trying. And the third factor is dependence.
Dependence means dependence on Krishna. Now, we can’t do it ourselves. Ultimately, the mind is extremely powerful.
And we need Krishna’s mercy. So, when Krishna’s mercy comes, at that time something magical happens. What happens when Krishna’s mercy comes? Of course, Krishna’s mercy comes at many levels.
Even the understanding that, okay, I should give this up. That understanding also is at one level, Krishna’s mercy. But when we are talking here about Krishna’s mercy, when Krishna’s mercy comes, the mind itself changes.
The mind stops proposing the wrong thing. So, all of us will have experienced in some cases, some situations in our life, with respect to some habits, that the mind itself has stopped proposing. Now, some of us may have been attached to, say, eating meat in the past.
But now, say, if we are travelling on a flight and we see somebody else eating meat. You know, if, say, on the flight, maybe TV is going on, some sports match is going on, some movie is going on. We may get attached.
I want to see what is going on in this movie. What is going on? But if the meat is going on, hardly anyone, any devotee gets tempted by meat. Why? Because prasadam is higher taste.
We got that higher taste. So, what has happened? The mind itself has changed. So, we need willpower when there is an opposing power.
But when there is no opposing power, then no willpower is needed also. We just naturally move forward. So, that Krishna’s mercy, we have to depend upon that.
Krishna will one day give his mercy and the mind will get it. Just like the child may initially be naughty. And the mother has to keep persuading, you know, study.
Child says, no, I will not study. Study, study. The mother has to push.
But gradually the child grows up. As the child is growing, the child also starts understanding, you know, I have a life ahead of me. I have to build my career.
And when the child, say, goes to grows to a teenager, goes to a hostel, then the mother is not going to call him. Have you studied today? Have you studied today? No. The child has got the intelligence.
Child will study. So, like that, the mind also grows up. And when Krishna’s mercy comes, then the mind stops proposing.
When the mind stops proposing, then there is no internal battle. Yes. Now, there may be internal battle for a particular temptation, for some other temptation.
For this temptation, the internal battle ends. And the more the internal battles decrease, the more bhakti becomes joyful. So, when the mind will get it, that is going to take some time.
We don’t know when it will happen. But till that time, we keep perceiving. Mind says, come on, do it.
No, I will not do it. So, we have to depend on Krishna. But dependence on Krishna doesn’t mean that we don’t nourish our intelligence.
It doesn’t mean that we are not striving for diligence. This is our part. Now, this is Damodar month going on.
So, we have Mother Yashoda, example of Mother Yashoda tying Krishna with two fingers. Mother Yashoda’s endeavour was one finger. And Krishna’s mercy was the second finger.
So, for us, nourishing our intelligence and striving with diligence, that is our finger. And the manifestation of Krishna’s mercy, that is the second finger. When I started giving classes for the first time about two and half decades ago, my senior devotee gave me a sheet of guidelines of how to speak in public.
And the last guideline was depend on Krishna. But in bracket, but only after you have prepared. If I come for a class and I have not prepared anything, I have no idea what I am going to speak.
I say, I am dependent on Krishna. That is not dependence on Krishna. That is irresponsibility.
We have to do our part. And then, Krishna will do his part. So, even when it seems like a struggle, it doesn’t matter.
Even if we fail, it doesn’t matter. We just keep striving. And as we keep striving with intelligence, with diligence, gradually, the inner hierarchy will change.
We will be able to resist the mind more and more. And over a period of time, the mind gets it. That time what happens? The floor that was inclined this way towards the sense objects, that floor gets inclined this way towards Krishna.
And then, as soon as some stimulus about Krishna comes up, our thoughts go towards Krishna. And that is when, bhakti starts becoming joyful. So, the joyfulness of bhakti can be experienced intermittently right now.
When we are impure, bhakti’s joyfulness is intermittent for us. Because the impurities direct our consciousness away from Krishna and then it will pull the consciousness back to Krishna. And that struggle takes away our energy.
That’s why we don’t feel joyful. But when the more we become purified, the inner struggle goes down and bhakti’s joyfulness doesn’t stay intermittent. It becomes consistent.
That’s what… As to 9.2 in the Bhagavad Gita it is said. So, we will all come to that state by the gradual consistent practise of bhakti. So, I’ll summarise.
I spoke about life lessons from car driving. That was the theme. That is the theme of the overall seminar series.
Today’s was the mind is the passenger. Don’t let it become the driver. So, I talked about how the Avadhut Brahmana learns from nature.
And Prabhupada also he took what was familiar to his audience, like LSD and explained spiritual happiness in those terms. So, knowledge progresses from the familiar to the unfamiliar. So, this whole spiritual concept of the mind, body, soul, all that can seem very complex and abstract.
So, to make it more intelligible, we take compare it to something very familiar. That is car driving. I first talked about the analogies are like rubber bands.
The rubber band holds on to a particular object. If it is stretched too much, it will break. So, each analogy serves a particular purpose.
The car body analogy serves the purpose of illustrating that the activating principle is not the body, is not material. It is non-material. Even in say driverless cars the driver even if it is not physically present, it is the driver’s intelligence that is accumulated in the computer.
So, the principle is that there is for explaining car driving satisfactorily we can’t have bottom-up causation. We need top-down causation. Bottom-up causation means why is the car moving? Because its wheels are moving and because the key was moved.
Top-down causation means the car moved because the driver wanted to go for a snack. The essential point of the car body analogy that the soul is the activating principle, that is elaborated further in the chariot body analogy. How does the soul activate? The soul doesn’t directly control matter because the soul is spiritual.
It is indirectly through the projection of consciousness. Just as the passenger in the chariot is not directly controlling the horses. The passenger instructs the charioter.
The charioter controls the horses. So, the same metaphor or similar metaphor or to illustrate the chariot body metaphor is for illustrating the mechanism of the soul-mind-body interaction. And the car metaphor when adapted for that purpose was that the soul is like the driver.
The mind is like the passenger. The soul is like the mother. The mind is like the child.
Watch this. Go here. Let’s see this.
Let’s do this. Mind has to be, the mother has to be mature and in control. And then I discussed about how this balance of power technically the driver is in control, the passenger is the observer.
But the balance of power can shift. When we develop habits, especially when they become addictive, then the mind proposes and although it can’t impose, although we can reject, habit means the proposition becomes so instinctive that we accept it. Addiction means that because of repeated misuse of our free will, the scope of our free will has become extremely small.
So, an alcoholic cannot choose whether to drink or not. Can only choose what to drink and maybe how much to drink. So, like a person who has become very weak, they cannot lift weights.
All that they can do is maybe lift one little finger. So, the free will scope becomes very reduced in the case of addictive behaviours. Addictions.
But still we have free will. So, when we are attached to something, it’s like our mental floor is inclined in a particular direction. So, automatically our thoughts will go in that direction.
Automatically, we will do those things. And if we don’t want to do those things, we have to consciously and conscientiously resist. Like the water is going this way, we have to push the water in the other direction.
And for this, for us to understand is the mind is practically maya. Conceptually they are different but maya acts primarily through the mind. Either through external perception or through internal recollection.
And to restore the balance of power between the mind and the soul, what we need to do is three steps. First is intelligence. Second is diligence.
And third is dependence. So, intelligence means contemplating the consequences. Like a person who gets a heart attack and realises, because of my eating meat, I may die.
I’ll give it up. A person who sees the consequences, because of alcohol, driving under influence, I can kill someone. No, I will not do it.
So, either we can experience the consequences ourselves, we can see the consequences in others or we can hear about the consequences. And scriptural study gives us hearing. We can hear about others who have suffered the consequences.
By that, we nourish our intelligence. And positively, by also contemplating the fruits of positive activity, of positive engagement, of learning to control the mind and direct it. Both these ways, we nourish the intelligence.
Diligence means, we are ready for gradual growth. It’s like a child will fall when trying to walk. It’s like when driving first time, we will go off track, we will hit the curb.
We keep trying. So, instead of unrealistically expecting suddenly today I make the determination, tomorrow I become purified. We are ready to, even if I fail, even if I succeed.
Rather than seeing self-mastery as a product which I have one day and I lose the next day. It’s a process. We just keep trying.
By the diligence, gradually our capacity to resist the mind will increase. And then there is dependence. That Krishna, He gives us His mercy when He gives us the intelligence to understand what we should be doing.
His greater mercy also comes when the mind just gets changed. The mind accepts this is not enjoyable. There is no need to do this.
Then, there is no inner struggle. So, at that time, the process of bhakti becomes joyful. It’s always joyful, but we can’t access that joyfulness because our impurities misdirect us away from Krishna.
And getting ourselves back to Krishna involves a struggle. But as the struggle decreases, bhakti becomes more and more joyful. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. So, are there any other questions? We have two options now. We are planning two sessions today.
So, we have two options. We can have maybe 5-10 minute question answers and then we can have 15 minutes or half an hour. So, we can have some break and then we can reassemble for the next session or we can break right away and we can assemble for the next session and then we can have question answer at the end.
If any of you have questions right now, for a few minutes we can discuss. I have two questions for you. My question is about sometimes there may be like, it may seem like it’s a different nation because my, the thing that I am pursuing, it may be Krishna, like it may be positive and good, but my consciousness made it somewhere else.
So, it will be considered obstinacy maybe. Can you give an example? I mean, this question is actually coming from multiple places that sometimes it’s like there are two things that I might want to do. Both are like kind of positive but I want to do both and I don’t have time for both.
So, then it is a challenge for me to choose to choose one and like for example, like determination or obstinacy, like for example, okay, I want to get up early, like every day but there are circumstances that because your schedule is so tight maybe you shall not do it sometimes. So, but like let’s say I push myself to get up at a particular time, it is like breaking myself up. It kind of turns into an obstacle.
I mean, I don’t know. I got your question, yeah. So, when does determination turn into obstinacy? Suppose, something may be good but like waking up in the morning but if our schedule doesn’t allow us to sleep early, then waking up early can be damaging to our health, it may irritate us, make us irritable and then it can be counterproductive.
Yeah. So, determination and obstinacy, the defining difference between them is intelligence. So, Prabhupada defines intelligence in the 10th chapter in verses 4, 5, 6, he says that intelligence means to see things in their proper perspective.
So, knowledge is, okay, this is the body, this is the soul, I should wake up in the morning these are facts. But intelligence means to see the facts in a integrated situation. Okay, so Prabhupada also told us that if we don’t take, Prabhupada would say that if you sleep too much you become lazy, if you sleep too less you become crazy.
So, small, small things, we just get irritated, we start snapping at other people when we are not had enough rest. So, we need balance. So, one principle in scripture is that yes, we should wake up early, but another principle is also, Krishna says that those who sleep too much or sleep too little, they cannot become yogis.
They cannot advance in the spiritual path. That is also a principle. So, now in my situation, if I just take one principle, generally fanaticism, the word fanatical, fanatics are considered very bad.
But what is fanatical? Fanatics are basically people who take one thing to be everything. They may take something from scripture only, but they don’t see the full picture of the scripture. Just take one thing and make that as everything.
So, that is where they are lacking in intelligence. They are not seeing the improper perspective. So, okay, if I want to wake up early, but my situation doesn’t allow me to wake up, okay, then what can I do? Let me try to do some other services.
If I want to execute my determination, but let me exercise my determination in some other direction where it is possible for me to achieve, with respect to fasting. It depends on the body type also. Ayurveda says there is Kapha, Vata, Pitta.
Three types of bodies are there. And people with Kapha Prakruti, they can fast very easily. But those who are with Pitta, they get acidity very quickly.
And they just, as they start fasting, their stomach starts burning, they start throwing up, it becomes very difficult for them. So, then if fasting is very difficult, it doesn’t matter. No need to fast.
You know, if I want to do some austerity on Ekadashi, I may decide that okay, I can’t fast. Maybe I’ll just chant some extra rounds. So, we have to channel our determination constructively.
So, again, going back to the point, to see things in the proper perspective. What it means is, say, Kunti Maharani gives the example that just as the Ganga always flows towards the ocean, let my consciousness always flow towards you. So, now, when the Ganga is flowing towards the ocean, sometimes it may come across an obstacle.
Sometimes there are some rocks which come along the way, which are made of slightly erodable material. And just by flowing, flowing, it just, the rock gets eroded. Sometimes, it may be not rock, it may be soil which gets eroded.
But sometimes the rock may be immovable. When the Ganga goes there, it finds some other way to move on. So, the purpose of flowing towards the ocean remains the same.
But the channel by which it flows can change. So, like that, for all of us, we want our consciousness to flow towards Krishna. But the channel by which the consciousness will flow towards Krishna will vary from person to person.
So, for someone, it might be waking up in the morning is what works for me. I get my japa done and then I can do other things so nicely. It’s good.
For somebody else, it just becomes very difficult. For them, maybe they are doing some service which requires them to stay awake late night. But if they are doing their service, that is the service where they are connected with Krishna.
We also need to chant, to chant attentively. But how we do it, that will vary. So, for us, we have to find out what are the channels by which our consciousness moves towards Krishna.
There are certain standard practises that we all need to do. We need to chant, we need to associate with devotees. But some activities, we will be able to naturally focus on more.
And when we find the channel by which our consciousness can naturally move towards Krishna, then we become comfortably situated in bhakti. There is always going to be some amount of discomfort and austerity. But that shouldn’t be the constant state.
There should be something which we should be able to joyfully do. And this is where individuality plays a very important role in bhakti. What may be a channel by which I can joyfully move towards Krishna.
That may not be a channel by which somebody else can move. For me, I like to memorise verses. And especially when I go in front of the deities, I try to recite one verse.
That is my offering to the deities. So, once in a class, I told, if we recite verses when we go in front of the deities, for me, when I recite the verses, I remember, this is the Lord who is here before me. Then, that connects my consciousness.
Whatever is described in the verse, that is the attributes of this Lord. That connection happens and then I am able to remember Krishna more. So, I once spoke in a class.
We can memorise verses and we can speak verses when we take darshan of the deities. After a few days, one devotee came to me and he said, he told me that, you know, whenever I try to memorise verses, and now when I go in front of the deities, trying to recollect that verse causes me so much tension that whatever bhakti I have, that goes away. So, so, for some people, my intelligence is more verbal.
So, when I have words, that stimulates thought. For some people, their intelligence may be very visual. They just see the deities and they feel very attracted.
So, the channel that works for me may not work for someone else. There is a saying in English that the shoe that fits one leg, bites another leg. So, our purpose of connecting with Krishna is common.
But the specific channels by which each of us may connect with Krishna can vary. So, we have to see things in the proper perspective. And then, as long as our consciousness is moving towards Krishna, even if along one channel it is not moving so well, it doesn’t matter.
Whichever channel it is moving smoothly, we keep it moving through that channel. Thank you. Yeah.
Okay. We’ll come back to you. First, thank you very much for a wonderful talk, as always you do.
Question is that you mentioned that soul doesn’t have a direct control over the material and it controls through the consciousness when it pervades. So, can you please explain a little bit more deeper? And another thing is like although theoretically we know about we are soul, but always we act on the bodily platform. So, what exactly it means that when we have that soul consciousness? Thank you.
Now, when you say that you’ll ask one question, then you ask two questions, that is cheating. I’ll answer the second question a little later. We are going to have a full session on that.
Understanding our bodily vehicle a little bit. I’ll talk about that later. But let’s go to the question.
When I said that the soul doesn’t directly control the body, what does it mean? Yeah. Matter and spirit are two different realities. And in general, the way we observe matter, at least the way science observes matter, is that all material phenomena can be explained in terms of material causes.
And that is what science tries to do. So, last year I was invited to Cambridge to speak on science and spirituality. So, while going there, we passed by the same tree where Newton is said to have seen the fruit falling.
Now, Newton believed in God. But when he saw the fruit falling, he asked the question, what made this fruit fall? He was not looking for the answer, God made the fruit fall. Although, that is also an answer.
But he is looking for a material mechanism. So, basically, when we talk about causes of things, there can be multiple levels of causation. So, for example, what made the fruit fall? You could say, okay, maybe the fruit had ripened and its weight had increased so much that the tree could not hold it.
That’s why it fell. That’s one level of causation. Another level of causation is, okay, when its weight increased, why did it fall? That’s because of the law of gravity.
A third level of causation is, ultimately nothing happens without Krishna’s will. So, Krishna’s will, Krishna’s sanction, that’s the third level of causation. So, science, when it approaches the study of matter, science is not atheistic, science is not theistic.
Science is non-theistic. Non-theistic means, science does not consider God as an explanation when it is looking for explanations of natural phenomena. Now, of course, we can ask the question that when science is finding out material mechanisms, who made those material mechanisms? And that can point to God.
But science intrinsically is a non-theistic body of knowledge. So, some atheists may use it to promote atheism. That’s a different thing.
But science itself is not against God. It is just a body of knowledge which looks for material explanations for material phenomena. So, within this understanding of science, science has something called as the causal completeness of nature.
Causal completeness means that any effect that we see within nature, its cause can be explained in terms of some other natural phenomena. So, we don’t need anything supernatural to explain anything natural. That is the idea of science.
So, the rain fell. Why did the rain fall? Because there were clouds in the sky. The winds came very stormy.
Why were there stormy winds? Because there was a hurricane over there. Because there was a disturbance over there which led to a cause over here. So, as far as operation practically is concerned, science does work very well in terms of this concept of causal completeness.
That all natural phenomena can be explained in terms of natural causes. However, as I said that it is a correct explanation, but it need not be a complete explanation. Like, I said that why did the car move? Because the wheel moved from the vertical to the horizontal.
That’s a correct explanation. And I could say, you know, just a simple act of the wheel moving that much and then the gas being pressed, the accelerator being pressed, you could say that by the mechanism of the car that force gets multiplied and the car moves accordingly. So, we can explain that in terms of causes.
But, there is something else also happening. And that is, there is a driver who has a desire to go somewhere. So, with respect to the soul and the body, the body’s functioning itself does not require the soul to be present.
By functioning I mean that in terms of bodily functioning. So, when I say the soul is not required to be present, what I mean is not that the soul is of course the activating principle. But, if I treat the body as a biological machine, the body needs food to eat.
The body needs oxygen. The body needs blood circulation. There are material mechanisms which are needed for the body to function.
This is one level of understanding the body. And if any of those mechanisms don’t work, the body will not function. If I feel weak, that’s because either I have not eaten or somehow because of some problem in my body, what I eat is not getting transformed into energy.
So, we can’t say that the energy of the body, by energy I am using the scientific term energy, not the principle energy, like the energy we get. That comes from the food. That doesn’t directly come from the soul.
What the soul does is, the soul is the basic presence which makes matter capable of functioning in conscious ways. So, researchers still don’t know why matter which has life or matter through which life is manifested and matter which has no life, they behave in very different ways. So, for example, the stool.
If I cut it, it will get cut. The stool’s existence basically goes through three phases. There is creation, deterioration and destruction.
The house is created, it deteriorates, it’s destroyed over a period of time. But when life is present in a particular biochemical system, in a body, there are three more changes that happen. There is growth, there is maintenance and there is reproduction.
It would be wonderful if we buy a small house and it grows on its own. It becomes a big house. It doesn’t happen like that.
We have a small baby, the small baby grows. So, growth, now what? We may say that, okay, cell reproduction is happening and all that, but if we look at the fundamental material level, this stool and this body are made of the same atoms and molecules. Why do the atoms and molecules here behave differently from here? And then there is maintenance.
If my hand gets cut, clotting happens, healing happens. The body maintains itself. If a stool is cut, it will not clot and heal itself.
There is no such thing like that. And then there is reproduction. No matter how complicated a computer or robo we make, maybe in science fiction movies we may see, but there is no he-robo and she-robo coming together and producing a baby robo.
Reproduction doesn’t happen. So, these are distinctive features, maintenance, growth and reproduction, they are manifested only when there is we could say, ensouled matter. We were going to talk about the embodied soul.
Consolidated soul. Ensouled matter, that means matter in which soul is present. So, why I was talking about this is, we accept the causal completeness in terms of the mechanisms which science uses to explain, but there is much that science can’t explain.
So, there is a role for non-material factors also to act. Now, how exactly does the soul act? The soul’s consciousness is projected into the body. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna gives an example.
Krishna gives two examples actually. In 13.33 and 34. One to illustrate how the soul is different from the body, is not entangled in the body.
The second to how the soul activates the body. So, यथा सर्वगतम् सौक्ष्मयादाकाशं नोपलिप्यते सर्वत्रावसितो देहे तथात्मा नोपलिप्यते Just as the sky is all pervading, it does not mix with the other matter, but the ether is said to be the substratum in which everything is present. So, it is different from everything, but everything is contained within it.
So, now what is ether? It’s a little complicated to understand. Science talks about space. Now, we say, what is space? Space is space is absence of matter.
That’s what science says. Empty spaces. But actually there is no such thing as empty space.
Some matter is always present. So, again the next example that Krishna gives is यथा प्रकाश्य यत्येक कृत्सनम् लोकमि मम्रवि क्षेत्रम् क्षेत्र यथा कृत्सनम् प्रकाश्य यति भारत So, he suggests that the sun illumines the universe, like that the soul illumines the body. Now, the sun is far away from the earth, but the sun’s rays get projected onto the earth.
And the sun’s rays cause photosynthesis to happen, cause plants to grow, cause flowers to blossom. So many changes happen over here. Although the sun is physically far away.
Like that the soul’s consciousness gets projected into the body. And the projection of the consciousness of the soul into the body is what enables the soul to act. So, I have written a book on reincarnation, in which I have got a whole appendix, or deal with the mind-matter interaction, or sorry, the soul-body interaction.
So, a modern example that we may use is virtue and intelligence. If somebody is playing a video game, in which say, the grand car robbery or whatever, some kind of game they are playing. Now, there is a player who is playing and, ok, press this button, move this thing, move this thing.
If it’s a virtual reality game, then you may have many levers also. Now, if you look at the mechanism by which the game is played, whatever, car moved this way, the car moved that way, the car went here, this happened, all that can be explained in terms of digital electronics. Ok, this signal was generated over here, that’s why the car moved this way.
This signal was generated, it was moving this way. But the person is experiencing emotions. There is a person who had intention and that person who had intention played the game.
And the person experienced emotions. So, that intention to play the game is what causes the consciousness to get projected into the virtual reality, into that video game. And, there is a mechanism by which the game is played.
And, we could explain, we could say there is causal completeness. Ok, this button is pressed, this moves this way. But still, activating it all is the intention of the player who wants to play.
In 13.21, Krishna talks about this. He says, कार्यकारण कर्त्रुत्वे हेतु प्रक्रितु उच्छते पुरुष्यह सुख दुखानां भोक्त्रुत्वे हेतु उच्छते He says, कार्यकारण कर्त्रुत्वे that cause and effect, all this happens within material nature. But, we experience pleasure and pain.
That is because of the भोक्त्रुत्वे, because of the desire to enjoy, because of the projection of consciousness. So, basically the material world can be explained in terms of material cause and effects. Of course, it cannot be exhaustively explained.
Like I explained how ensouled matter behaves differently. We can explain it in terms of, okay, because the cells grow, that’s why it happens, the cells have a healing capacity. But, why is that there at all? Why is that not there here and why is that here? So, there are some explanations which do not come even when we talk about the causal completeness of science.
But, more importantly the soul is not in contradiction, the soul and spiritual knowledge is not in contradiction to scientific knowledge. It is a different level of causation. It’s a different, just like the digital mechanism by which the video game is played.
That is one level of causation. The players coming and playing is another level of causation. Both work in parallel.
So, similarly, the body functions according to certain biochemical mechanisms, biophysical mechanism, that’s one level of causation. But, the soul’s projection of consciousness is another level of causation and both work in parallel. Does that answer your question? Thank you.
So, you had one more question? We’ll stop with that. Shall we stop now or we have one more question? When you were speaking about intelligence, one of the means of making the arrival from the higher level, there was this by understanding the negative consequences and also the positive, like knowing how deep is Krishna and what will be the result if I engage in devotional service. So, the question came to my mind, generally when we engage in devotional service, there may be out of fear, out of beauty or out of love.
So, is it that when a person is too much knowing about the consequence of engaging in devotional service, due to that it’s like because of fear or out of beauty and when we are more like come to that level of love than higher one, then it is out of love. So, I mean, for myself, I feel that at this time, I don’t think that there is that much love. But, I mean, yeah, I understand your question.
Is it better? So, is it that if we consider the, is it that if we are concerned about the consequences of say, worldly indulgence, then we are practising bhakti out of fear and if we are attracted to the fruits of Krishna, the sweetness of Krishna, then we are practising out of love? Yes and no. Because at one level, Rupa Goswami has given us the very practical guideline. Somehow or the other fix the mind on Krishna.
So, even if it is out of fear of the misery of material existence, that’s why if you take shelter of Krishna, that’s fine. In fact, Krishna says that there are four kinds of people who come to Him. In Kalyuga, there are four kinds of people who come to Krishna.
The distressed, the distressed, the distressed and the distressed. Laughter Laughter Laughter People who are philosophical seekers are extremely rare. And those who are wealth seekers, there are so many other ways they may get wealth nowadays.
So, it is only when we get problems and we feel, I can’t solve this problem. Oh God, please help me. So, usually, at our level, any way we fix the mind on Krishna, it is good.
At the same time, because we live in a culture where morality is so much relativised and trivialised. So, it is important to remind ourselves of the consequences of immorality. And that is not necessarily an unhealthy kind of fear.
There is, when we say that fear, in the Bible it is said, fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. So, fear is not a bad thing. When say if a child is putting the hand in fire.
Mother, don’t put it. Mother shouts, I don’t want my mother to get angry with me. That fear is good.
But, there is fear as an emotion and there is fear as a conception of God. If I think of God only as a fearsome person who will punish me if I do wrong. And if that is my primary conception of God, then that is not very attractive.
That is not very positive. But fear is actually required. And today, because the culture as I said is so relativising, so we need to remind ourselves of the consequences of of immorality.
We may relativise morality but we can’t relativise the consequences of immoral living. You want to drink, you drink. You don’t want to drink, you don’t drink.
Fine. You may relativise that but after drinking, if I get liver problems, there is no relativising that. That is for real.
So, reminding ourselves of consequences is actually intelligence. So, it’s not necessarily bhakti at the level of fear. It is just educating our intelligence about the dangers.
And also, as we practise bhakti, we need to focus more and more on the positives views of bhakti. That not just we will go to Krishna but even in this world, our life becomes more meaningful. It becomes more fulfilling.
It becomes more practically productive. We become better human beings. We help others to become better.
So, we can look at the positive fruits of bhakti even in this life. So, we see Krishna as a source of positive change in our life. Even in this world, not to speak of another world.
So, that way, we do look at the positive consequences. And that’s what will help us to sustain our practise of bhakti. So, it’s more like we are aware of the dangers.
We don’t constantly obsess over the dangers of immoral living. That’s not the primary thing we think about. The primary thing about Krishna is serving Krishna.
But, we are also aware of that. And sometimes, as I said, somehow or other, we have to fix the mind on Krishna. In some situations, forceful reminders of the danger of immoral living, they may jolt us out of our complacency.
And they may inspire us to fix our mind on Krishna. Sometimes, very inspiring experiences of the sweetness of Krishna bhakti. So, we come in the association of senior devotees.
Very illuminating classes. There are very sweet kirtans. That may inspire us.
So, rather than relegating something to the level of fear and something to the level of love, we see, whatever impetus takes us towards Krishna, we accept that. So, the principle is, Whatever is favourable for my bhakti, I accept it. What is unfavourable, that I avoid it.
Thank you very much. So, thank you very much. So, we will