Spiritualizing our relationships 2 – Changing our vision of others

[Seminar at Alachua, Florida, USA]

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continue our discussion on relationships, how to spiritualise them, so I talked about how the modes shape our translate our intentions into actions now we’ll look at how we can perceive properly, the modes affect how we perceive, process and pursue, so our perception of others is our vision of others how that is shaped by the modes and what we can do about it that’s what we’ll be discussing now so Krishna talks about knowledge in the three modes in the 18th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, 18.20-22 he talks about knowledge in goodness, passion and ignorance knowledge and ignorance can seem like an oxymoron because knowledge and ignorance normally think of as opposite but like I mentioned earlier that in the mode of ignorance it is not that intelligence or reason is not there rather it is used for an ignorant purpose so in goodness when knowledge is there what do we see? Krishna explains sarva-bhuteshu yenaikam bhavam avyayam ikshate avibhaktam vibhakteshu taj jnanam viddhi sattvikam so we see the material and the spiritual sarva-bhuteshu yenaikam bhavam avyayam ikshate we see the imperishable spirit in all living beings that means we see their essential spirituality avibhaktam, in that way everybody is actually one it is not that they are different but vibhakteshu, their bodies are different their minds are different, so they are situated differently so we see material reality and we see spiritual reality to be able to see both that is in the mode of goodness so Ishwara Prabhupada of course his vision was transcendental at the same time we saw the hippies, they were degraded in many ways, but at the same time they had a spiritual spark he saw them as souls he did not see them simply as people who are degraded alone in the mode of passion we see people’s material or external or physical side and that’s what we equate them with prutaktvena triyajjnanam nana bhavantu takvidhan viddhi sarveshu vibhakteshu tadjnanam viddhi rajasam when we see people’s physical characteristics their body and equate them with their body we think their essential nature is their body we see only the material reality that is vision or knowledge in the mode of passion in the mode of ignorance we don’t even see the material properly we see only one feature within the material also yathukusnava dekasmin karyesakta mahaitukam atatvarthavad alpam chyotattamasamudharitam yathukusnavad one thing of everything as ekasmin, one thing to be everything so for example we may say there is nowadays concern that racism is coming back again so in racism what happens, we don’t see anything about that person’s character, that person’s intelligence that person’s qualities we see only the colour of their skin and that one thing becomes everything in India there is casteism what was the birth of this person that is the only thing and nothing else so to equate one thing to be everything and that is knowledge but it is alpam it is very meagre and atatvarthavad it does not see the totality of reality it does not see the substance, that is knowledge in the mode of ignorance now so let’s look at all these three a little more in detail so when we see in ignorance we reduce people to some one attribute of theirs like I gave racism as an example if we see in the fourth canto of the bhagavatam there is this quite a horrific story of Daksha and Sati is described Sati was the daughter of Daksha she got married to Shiva or rather Brahma told Daksha to have his daughter married to Shiva and then they got married and then Daksha felt at a particular point that Shiva disrespected him and that’s why he became very cold towards Shiva and then when he was performing a yajna he invited everyone but did not invite Shiva and Sati now Shiva did not want to go because he felt we haven’t been invited Sati felt that it’s my own home why is the invitation needed so she went there but when she went there Daksha, she thought this is my home this is my maternal home and all my father, mother, sisters are here but Daksha did not see her as his daughter at all he saw her only as the wife of the person who did not respect her so that one feature became everything and he, normally a parent has a natural affection for their child but he became so hard hearted that he repeatedly neglected and hurt Sati and eventually Sati felt so insulted especially when she saw that Shiva was also being insulted, that she was on the verge of giving up her body and she was ready to immolate herself and even then Daksha’s heart did not melt so all that he saw, yes that Shiva his wife is dying, let her die so what happened is we see one feature of a person and make that into everything that is fragmental and we all based on our interaction with different people, we may say this person is like this sometimes even in our movement we may have issues with different spiritual masters this person is my god brother, oh its good somebody is a guru disciple, not good and we just reduce that person may be a wonderful devotee that person may have many characteristics but we just reduce people to one characteristic of theirs last year when I had come to America I spent some time going to various colleges little more time so I was talking with one boy and he told me that he grew up in a foster home and I asked him what happened, did your parents die in an accident or something he said no, both my parents are alive are alive then I asked him why are you in a foster home he said when I was 5 my parents divorced and normally when parents divorce at that time there is a custody battle both the mother and the father may want the child to be with them but in this case both the mother and the father told this boy that our marriage was the biggest mistake of our life and you remind me of that mistake so I don’t want anything to do with you and despite having both parents the child became an orphan and then he had to go to a foster home so what happens the child is a person in his own right but the mode of ignorance can so much pervert the vision you reduce the child simply a reminder of my mistake so in the mode of ignorance our vision can become terribly distorted where we reduce somebody to just one particular interaction one particular behaviour one particular attribute and it can become very injurious sometimes some person has made a mistake long time in the past and we just hold that person you were like this tell the story of the naked pancho there was a boy who would play in the streets and when he would play in the he would just play without any clothes and then he had a friend and then both of them grew up and this boy became very well educated and he became a judge in a court and then still his friend would say no he would play naked in the streets that was 20, 30, 40 years ago, how does that matter but that was the only thing this person could focus on what can this person be a judge he used to be so uncultured, he used to play in the streets unclothed so like that sometimes we just reduce people to one attribute of theirs and that is something which can severely distort our relationships so in the mode of ignorance this is how our vision gets distorted so we see others through the filter of one particular attribute and in the mode of passion we reduce people to their physical or external attributes so man treats a woman as a sex machine, a woman treats a man as an ATM machine so in that way they say don’t ask a woman her age don’t ask a man his salary so basically we just don’t see them as persons at all we reduce them almost objectifying them to see how they can fit into our particular desires or our particular schemes in the mode of passion, that’s why if the relationships are formed in the mode of passion as long as whatever is attractive that is there the relationship remains once the attractiveness disappears then the relationship also starts going down so as long as the person stimulates me sensually, I want to have a relationship once that stimulation stops then what is the need for the relationship say nowadays the culture is said to be the culture of hook up, shack up and break up hook up means you just ban a woman have a one night stand shack up means they live together and then when they can’t live together, they break up so it’s all based on passion and going towards ignorance so in the mode of passion again we see just the externals not the essential characteristic of the person at all in the mode of goodness things are better so we see that others are like us they are combinations of strengths and weaknesses we have some good points we have some bad points so similar are others and in our interactions we try to understand others just as we want them to understand us I am weak at this please try to understand you will also understand because there is something they are weak at so that empathy which is required in relationships is possible when we are in the mode of goodness because we can see I may have particular strengths which they may be weak at and if I just focus on my strengths and their weaknesses and say you are such a bad person but then I see that I also have some weaknesses so we can become empathic when we see people more holistically and even when we are practising bhakti like going to the earlier question of when we are practising bhakti we label people, this person is a devotee this person is a non devotee yes, functional perspective such labels may be required but it may be that somebody is practising bhakti externally but they may still be in the mode of ignorance or the mode of passion and somebody may be a non devotee but relatively speaking their conduct may be in the mode of goodness and if the person in the mode of goodness is facilitated properly they can become devotees and they may become better devotees than somebody who has been a devotee for a long time so there are for functional purposes designations that can be used but we understand that everybody is a combination of strengths and weaknesses so to just reduce a person down to a devotee or a non devotee that may also not do justice to the person it’s important we want to associate with devotees we don’t want to associate indiscriminately especially with non devotees but then over a period of time if we keep practising bhakti we’ll start seeing that even among devotees there are some devotees with whom we can get along nicely and become closer to them some devotees, yes we respect that they are devotees but it’s almost like we are devotees on two different planets the way they think the way we think, we can respect them but we can’t connect with them much so even among those who are devotees there is diversity even among those who are non devotees there may be diversity there may be some people who may be quite spiritual although they are not specifically following a particular spiritual path so we see people holistically not reducing them to any particular feature then we can function more effectively in that relationship and we can ourselves take stock when we talk about our relationships we have different relationships with different people and some relationships are very close some relationships are more formal or a distant relationship so in many relationships our mind keeps passing comments as soon as we see a person this person, short tempered this person, money minded this person, very selfish this person arrogant so like that we just keep labelling even if that label is true even if that person is like that but that is not at all what a person is so we have to see what labels we are fixing on others and how those labels may be coming in the way of our developing healthy relationship so coming to the mode of goodness means seeing others good side also, we are not blind to their limitations but we learn to see their good side also and one way to do this is to try to hear from others whose perspective is different from us for example, I think this person is a very bad person and then I hear from all other people who share my opinion and we all come together we give a dog a bad name and hang that dog but then somebody else says this person is actually a very nice person what happened? please tell me maybe I interacted with them in a particular way or in this particular situation, in this particular action they have little trouble they have some difficulties and they create some difficulties for others but there are other aspects of people also so in goodness we can see holistically when we go further beyond goodness towards transcendence we don’t just see the strengths and weaknesses we see that we are all works in progress Krishna is present in the hearts of all of us and Krishna is guiding all of us we are all at our own levels in spiritual evolution and Krishna is working on everyone so when Krishna says that yad yad vibhuti mat sattvam shreemad urjitamevava tat tad evav gacchatvam mama tejo amisha sambhava he says that everything opulent, attractive, glorious springs from a spark of my splendour that means that everybody who is attracted to something they are attracted to some spark of Krishna we may say that somebody is just this mundane this is nonsense it may be true, sometimes Prabhupada writes in Chaitanya Chantamrita that some Mayavadis, they say that sarvam khalvam idam brahma everything is brahma so they drink alcohol and they say this is also brahma because the taste of alcohol, it is so captivating where does it come from? that is also coming from supreme spiritual reality that is true now, at the same time we have to see, not just where something is coming from but also where it is taking us even the taste of alcohol also comes from Krishna but the taste of alcohol doesn’t take us towards Krishna it fills more and more intoxication and takes us away from Krishna so at one level we can say this is illusion but on the way to Krishna, in that book Prabhupada also writes that somebody is drunk and can’t give up drinking if they think that the taste of the alcohol is Krishna and in this way they remember Krishna and one day they will become a devotee of Krishna it is not by drinking they will become a devotee of Krishna rather by remembering Krishna that will facilitate their devotion so the point here is that everybody’s deepest experience is their experience of Krishna but they are not able to connect that experience with Krishna so the alcoholic is captivated by drinking what is the taste of alcohol that is captivating them so much? that is actually a spark of Krishna that is manifesting through them some people are just mad for some sports stars, some movie stars they almost like worship those sports stars or movie stars so now where does that sports star get the ability by which they can captivate so many people that ability is coming from Krishna so everybody’s deepest experience is their experience of Krishna like in the introduction to Krishna book George Harrison says that everyone is searching for Krishna some people know it some people don’t know it so now whatever is their experience right now if we instead of rejecting that experience as mundane, yes right now it is mundane but if you can somehow connect that experience with Krishna then we can help everyone to move towards Krishna once Srila Prabhupada went to some Akhada, Akhada in India is a place where people build their body so there was a group of RSS Rashtriya Sangha people and they were all building their bodies and Prabhupada gave a lecture in Hindi over there he says so all of you are building your body yes that is good he says in the society Brahmanas are required and Kshatriyas also required so you all can have healthy body and you can defend Dharma and he said there was a deity of Hanuman over there, Hanuman is considered like a very strong person so he said now you see Hanuman he also had a very strong physical strength but Hanuman was chanting Ram’s name so he says so when you are doing your exercises when you are doing sit ups chant Ram Ram Ram Ram so rather than rejecting there it might be obsession also to have a fit body to have a strong body Prabhupada is saying yes use it for the purpose of Dharma and Krishna is it in this case Rama is it so we can connect people with Krishna so basically nobody very few of us are in transcendence right now but if we perceive at the level of transcendence we can see that how can I connect this person with Krishna I was in one city and there was this devotee boy who very intelligent he is just Gaurahari how old are you? 9 so in which year? 4th so this boy was maybe 10 or 12 little older than you so he is very good at robotics and he has won some national award in robotics at that level he made some robo so I was talking with his parents he is completely mad after robots he will stay awake at late night search in this search in google and do everything but if we try to get him interested in Krishna he is not interested at all so what can we do so then I was talking with a very intelligent boy at that age so then I told him that they have this robotics competition so what do you make in robotics competition so he told I had made a particular robo which does the work of say in a supermarket carrying things so I said if you want to do something new which nobody else will do you can make a robo of Krishna and Arjuna and you can have the robo of Krishna speaking the Bhagavad Gita and Arjuna asking the questions so when he heard that that made him interested in what does Krishna and Arjuna say in the Gita so rather than rejecting their interest as mundane you can try to see how their interest can be connected with Krishna so when we see it this way then we can we can rather than seeing the material and spiritual as the spiritual requires the rejection of the material we see the spiritual can be a progression from the material where I am right now from there I can move towards Krishna not that where I am I reject it all and then move towards Krishna so how do we perceive in transcendence at one level we may say that oh I am in a relationship with this person I am in this situation it is just a result of our karma and sometimes the Bhagavatam may also stress this or support this just as sometimes leaves come together in the ocean they are together for some time and they get separated like that all our relationships are temporary and we shouldn’t get attached to them that is true the Bhagavatam is spoken to a audience at a particular level the Bhagavatam is spoken to people who are already practising Dharma responsibly that there is Aparadharma and Paradharma Aparadharma is material religious responsible being materially religious responsible and Paradharma is being spiritually responsible so transcendental religion and material religion and the Bhagavatam is meant to take us from material religion to spiritual religion you are doing your worldly duties that is not enough you have to devote yourself to Krishna however we live in a world where people are not doing their worldly duties also so sometimes when we speak about renunciation then what is happening is people don’t have that spirit of renunciation but they just become casual and nonchalant about material things it’s all just a product of karma and temporary relationship why should I bother about it even if it is temporary the temporary is the only way to the permanent for us our body is temporary it is only by using the temporary body that we will be able to attain the eternal similarly the relationships that we have if they strongly become obstacles in our spiritual path then we have to question how I have to go ahead in this relationship we ultimately have to see that karma also happens by Krishna’s plan so the way we get our karmic reactions is under Krishna’s supervision so our relationships are not just products of our karma they are also parts of Krishna’s plan and when we function responsibly in these relationships we all can grow spiritually even through this relationship so when we perceive in transcendence we see that we are not just sources of material gratification you provide me this I provide you that yes though that may be aspect of the relationship but we are all meant to be partners in our spiritual evolution and this understanding can drastically change the way we approach relationships so actually it is in dependence on Krishna that we can have real independence it is when we become connected with Krishna, absorb in Krishna that we become free from worldly cravings from worldly dependencies that’s when we become truly independent and when we want to form relationships there can be broadly three kinds of relationships dependence, independence and interdependence so people who are dependent can be emotionally dependent, financially dependent, socially dependent that is not a very healthy state, bhakti enables us each one to become, if our relationship with Krishna is strong then we become independent and then two independent people come together in a relationship they become interdependent that leads to synergy and one plus one becomes eleven, we can work together much better so bhakti is not meant to be the rejection of the worldly relationships rather bhakti gives us a foundation by which we can function more responsibly more effectively, more constructively in those relationships and so we may be in particular ways dependent as we start practising bhakti we become independent not independent in the sense that we are not dependent on Krishna but we are not dependent on, we are not driven by our worldly cravings here and there and then when we form a relationship that can be a healthy relationship yeah so when we practise bhakti we have one intention, we are servants of Krishna and through our different relationships we are serving people but the way we serve can vary we serve with some people we serve through some people we serve some people and we serve in spite of some people that means I am here and Krishna is here, I want to go towards Krishna so some people, they act as a partner we go together towards Krishna so that is we serve with some people so they encourage us in our spiritual journey we encourage them in their spiritual journey so we go together some people, they are so spiritually advanced that we serve through them our spiritual master, our senior spiritual guides, the service that we offer them, that service goes to Krishna that way so we serve through some people and for some people sometimes some people just don’t get along with and if you have to serve with that person, I can’t do this this person is so problematic then we have to understand that if we have to serve with some person who is difficult to get along with for us, then we have to understand that we are actually doing two services we are doing that service and being with that person is also a service so we have to serve some people and that may also purify us. Some people are difficult to be with and sometimes through being with those difficult people, we may develop humility, tolerance certain qualities so some people, we just serve them and we tolerate and endure and grow and sometimes we serve in spite of some people.
That means that person is actively opposed to our relationship with Krishna then it’s like I am going from here to there with some people I go, some people guide me along the way some people, I literally pick them and take them so working with them itself is a service and some people, we just leave them behind and move on so our purpose is to serve Krishna but we have to execute that purpose in different ways so sometimes some people may be difficult to deal with so we understand that the way I serve over here will be different from somebody with whom I am serving and I get along very nicely with them some relationships they give us strength just being with some people just feels so nice we feel alive, we feel inspired we feel joyful, I want to be with this person and being with some people takes away our strength when that person goes we feel relieved it’s like some people bring happiness wherever they go and some people bring happiness whenever they go so now it may be that actually that the same person who we feel relieved when they go away somebody else may feel when they come, they bring so much happiness so there is a lot of relativity and perception based on our conditioning, their conditioning the way we are interacting so in general, for us to sustain our service attitude we need enough interactions and relationships that give us strength if the number of relationships which are taking away our strength becomes too much and the relationships where we get strength becomes too little then we will become burdened we will feel crushed it’s like say a porter or somebody who is lifting a lot of weights that person has to exercise the energy to lift the weights but if they don’t eat adequate food they will no longer have the energy to lift so that way we need relationships which give us strength we want to have a service attitude in all our relationships but we can’t just continue on in relationships which just strain us and drain us so sometimes we are put in a situation where that kind of relationship is what we have we have to work with someone and that’s how it is working out then it is our responsibility to see in the devotee community where we can have relationships that give us strength and that way when we balance that sometimes I’ll conclude with this point sometimes a lot of frustration comes in relationships because we expect something from someone which that person is never going to give for example we expect affection or appreciation from a particular person and that person’s nature is not like that only they will only criticise or they will just ok done move on they will never appreciate they will never give affection but if you look at our life there may be other people who give us affection who are so happy to be with us who are so warm and so nice now within the limits of dharma when the relationships are going on then instead of expecting something which we will not get from someone we see in the broader community where our emotional need can be fulfilled and that is the advantage of having a community where we can have many different relationships and different relationships can fulfil our needs in different ways so our service attitude is the way we move towards Krishna but service attitude doesn’t mean that we just interact in the same way with everyone our intention is to serve but the way we serve will vary so this was about the vision in the next session I will talk about understanding our role in these relationships so I will summarise I spoke about how we can perceive others in various ways and so in the mode of ignorance we just reduce them to one particular characteristic their race their caste or their behaviour or I talked about how Daksha saw Sati as simply Shiva’s wife not his daughter or these parents who saw their own child as a product of a mistake not their own child so in ignorance it’s a very fragmental vision in passion we reduce people to their external or physical characteristics and as long as those characteristics are there relationship goes on otherwise it stops in ignorance in goodness we see people more holistically as combination of good of strengths and weaknesses just as we are and we try to become empathic with them we try to understand them and then they understand us in transcendence we see not just their strengths and weaknesses we see also Krishna acting and then we see that whatever they are experiencing at this level everyone’s deepest experience is their experience of Krishna so rather than discounting their experience present experience we try to connect that experience with Krishna and help them come closer to Krishna and when we are functioning we always want to have a service attitude while dealing with others because we see that we are servants of Krishna and we are so we can serve Krishna directly through Bhakti and we can serve him through the people around us also but because different people have different natures we may serve with some people where there are partners, we may serve through some people where there are mentors we may serve some people who we have difficulty in dealing with but we just being with them we treat that as a service and sometimes some people we just can’t get along then we put that aspect aside and we move on and serve in spite of them so when we can see that certain relationships are straining and draining us then that doesn’t mean we necessarily have to give up that relationship rather we have to get strength from other relationships so that we can endure and continue in this relationship so that way we can function and have the right vision by which the possibility of having a better and healthier relationship can become more. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Any questions or comments? Thank you so much. We all heard about relationships and we all heard that human is an interior nature but the way you combine them is extremely exciting. Thank you.
With the noted events for example you see someone as a certain colour or as a certain race you know, Hitler there was so much secret activities, genocide throughout the world and passion so how does this sinful activity work when you have all these different ways of being? So how do sinful activities factor in this various vision? Generally when people do some sinful activity it requires objectification of the other person so for example if a thief robs someone and thief doesn’t see the other person as a person who has worked hard and earned the money this person is just having some money, I want to get it and they may wound the other person they may kill the other person when somebody, when a butcher kills an animal they don’t see the animal as a living person, they see the animal simply as a source of income as a food item so when some say rapist violates a woman they don’t see the woman as a person, they see again objectify so means the other person is again reduced to one particular attribute so the animal is reduced to simply potential food or potential money a wealthy person is reduced to just again a source of money, I might have robbed whatever, so generally we may have based on our past karma, our past inclinations we may have some sinful desires now for the sinful desires to be executed we need a particular vision of things if say when the in the holocaust when the people were, Jews were being killed essentially it was all accompanied or preceded by a lot of propaganda against the Jews by which they were no longer seen as human beings or seen as low class human beings so there is a distortion or you could say degradation of the vision of the other that is required before we can violate them so now so sometimes we may do a particular activity because we have been brainwashed in a particular way or sometimes we do a particular activity and then our intelligence in order to rationalise it starts coming up with certain reasoning and we decrease or we decrease the status of the other person to just an object in general sinful activity requires objectification of the other in some way or the other so that we can extract from the other without considering them as sentient persons with emotions who will be hurt by what we are doing. Of course in the extreme mode of ignorance some people become sadists where they delight in causing pain to others like say he liked to half kill animals but then there also it was not so much seeing the animals as persons it is more that he could see himself as the controller capable of causing pain to others so when people become sadists the soul in the material world has the tendency to be the controller. Now when we are in the mode of goodness we will want to control in a way that benefits others in the mode of passion we will want to control in a way that we can get everything for ourselves but in the mode of ignorance we want to control in a way by which not only we want things for ourselves we want others to suffer.
So specific actions may require specific distortions of vision but in general we reduce people from what they are to something lesser so that we can execute our schemes. Does this answer your question? Thank you. Yes.
So sometimes we do see qualities and not qualities of people. Sorry? So we do see qualities and not having certain defects in people but if sometimes we get angry or someone says something then the mind tries to magnify their defects rather than looking at the qualities. Can you give some tips on how at that time we can use our intelligence to find the mind and try to realise.
So when say we have seen some people have some defects and if those people only criticise us then rather than seeing the criticism constructively we focus on their defects and highlight their defects. Yes. The ego in general is very insecure and whenever anybody minimises us one way the ego seeks security is by minimising the person who is minimising us.
You are lazy. You know how lazy you are? What right do you have to tell me I am lazy? So that’s how we try to defend ourselves. So that’s a default tendency which is there as I said fight or flight is the tendency in the mode of passion or ignorance.
Now sometimes that may come instinctively but if we have done some introspection and are aware this is my tendency then when the tendency comes we won’t immediately act on it. I am feeling like that but let me check myself. So in general the intelligence for it to function it requires some preparation.
So say if we are going from here to here and along the road we are driving and there is a pothole. Now first time we may just go and we may jolt it. Next time when we go we know there is a pothole we will swer our car so that it can go without hitting the pothole.
So like that if we know in these situations I give in to some unhealthy reaction then we can prepare in advance and we can try to avoid that and depending of course on the dynamic of the relationship it may or may not be possible practically but if we can generally separate my behaviour and their behaviour. In this particular situation maybe I was lazy, I was irresponsible I will correct myself. And they also have an issue and there is a time for dealing with that.
So sometimes if we if the other person has a particular grievance and they are pointing out something, if instead of addressing their grievance that is the time when we bring our grievance then they feel unheard and we also feel unheard. Although both may be screaming neither of them is hearing each other. So if we say this is the time when this person is having this grievance let us see how we can address this.
Maybe we apologise, we explain this is what happened and then we also bring our grievance. The nature of the passionate or the ignorant mind is to want to either be the controller I will talk about this in next session or to just quit and give it up. But to have discussion and come to a resolution that requires some goodness.
So if we think and prepare these are situations when I get in trouble and then we anticipate or envision what could be the healthy course of action then it becomes easier and generally our bhakti practises help us to come to goodness more easily or at least they give us the goodness by which you can perceive this is what I was doing wrong and then we can especially if we are secure in our relationship with Krishna then other criticism doesn’t cause insecurity. Yes, I have this mistake but still that is not causing me insecurity then we can respond more maturely. Thank you.
This question is actually broad and he says ever speaking of relationships and how people don’t get along and how things happen it seems that forgiveness talks forgiveness is the best calling so how to cultivate that because so many people have left because of negative interactions or tense relationships or they don’t come to the temple because somebody said this or this happened Can we talk about this in last session? The last talk session is going to be about this primarily. How to deal with difficult relationships that I am talking about. Thank you.
Any other questions? You may cover this later but I am interested to hear more about how independent people can become interdependent people. I like that. How to be independent for people who are interdependent.
How can independent people become interdependent? When we are not independent when we are dependent then at that time we need the other person so much that we may be ready to pay even an unhealthy price for maintaining that relationship. For example, if you consider Dhritarashtra and Duryodhana Dhritarashtra was the father, Duryodhana was the son and the father was meant to be an authority figure relatively speaking but Dhritarashtra was so attached to Duryodhana that for him Duryodhana’s displeasure in any way, Duryodhana’s distress in any way was unbearable and in order to please Duryodhana he was ready to go to any extent. So, for him, his pleasure even his own sense of self-worth, he had wanted to be the king because he was blind, he could not become the king, so his hope was my son will become the king which is a natural maternal aspiration we can say but the distortion was he could not see that his son was doing grievously wrong things so because he was so dependent on Duryodhana so that’s why he could never take a stand when Duryodhana was doing anything wrong he just went along with it so when we are dependent then our need for the other person prevents us from doing the right thing if it is going to alienate the other person but when we are independent then yes we are social beings and we don’t know social interactions but we have to see everything in the light of the bigger picture Prabhupada says intelligence means to see things in their proper perspective so yes this relationship is important but if this relationship is making me do immoral things, do sinful things, do grievously wrong things then then maybe then I cannot continue with this so that perception of the broader picture and I am on my journey towards Krishna and this person is on the journey towards Krishna and we are both going to pursue this path if we can come together we will have greater strength and we can move together but if it becomes that if this person I just need this person and tomorrow that person starts going away from Krishna towards some anti-devotional activities I can’t be without this person so then I go away so then we cannot work independently and pursue our best interests if we are too dependent on people so when we are independent then to pursue our higher goals we can choose to come together with others and pursue that higher purpose How advisable is it for one to go outside one’s comfort zone in terms of service and relationship? and taking us outside our comfort zone we are always told that we should do as much service as possible and sacrifice everything for service when we take us outside our comfort zone how far do we go on that? So for our service or our relationships how much should we go out of our comfort zone? Certain words have certain connotations so as soon as we use the word comfort zone I have to go out of my comfort zone that word has a negative press associated with it but in principle if we see the Varanashram system which basically it’s not so much a categorisation into Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra that is of course one that is a significant feature of Varanashram but essential principle is that people are engaged according to their nature and in Aapadharma, in emergencies a Brahmana may do a work of Kshatriya but normally a Brahmana will do a work of a Brahmana so working according to our nature is the way we function and is that being in our comfort zone? I wouldn’t say so, it is because even when we are working according to our nature still we will face challenges and to go through these challenges we need commitment, we need determination so one of my services is writing in general I like to write but there are times when just I get a writer’s block nothing comes in it’s just so frustrating there is an author who says that writing is very easy you just sit and glare at a computer till drops of blood form on your forehead so even when we are doing what we like to do there also if you want to do something substantial we have to take up challenges so does going out of our comfort zone necessarily mean doing something that is not according to our nature it depends on situation, it may be required, it may be possible for some people it may not be possible for some people I was talking with a senior devotee a few years a couple of years ago in Australia and then he was telling me that as we become older, I asked him as we become as we practise bhakti for many many years and we become more advanced is it that we become transcendental to our nature and then we can do whatever service is required he told me no, as you grow older you lose the passion to fight against your nature we just serve intensely but according to our nature so if we see the comfort zone if we consider an example of weight lifting if I lift weights which I already I just lift 2-3 kg weights my muscles may not grow much but if I lift 25 kg weight when my capacity is only 10 kg or 12 kg that may break my bones also so comfort zone is one extreme but then the panic zone where I lift too much that is also another extreme so in this terminology they say we should be in the stretch zone so where we do something which is beyond our capacity and that helps our capacity to increase so what will be the stretch zone that will vary from person to person so for somebody who for their particular nature somebody is a brahminical nature and in the brahminical nature only they may do some service which is relatively more challenging and that’s how they stretch themselves so so it’s a general varnashram system was that we stretch ourselves within our nature not against our nature we do have to stretch ourselves so in that sense we do come out of our comfort zone but there is also the principle that we need to practise bhakti lifelong and if you have to practise bhakti lifelong if the activity that we are doing is overall compatible with our nature the service that we are doing then it goes on steadily if we are doing a service that is very strongly against our nature we may do it by our determination, by our surrender but in doing that service there is a lot of inner friction I can’t do it, I don’t want to do it, it’s too difficult for me and that inner friction may sometimes dissipate so much of our energy that effectively we may not be able to do much so we could say that coming out of our comfort zone so that we stretch according to our nature in a way that we can contribute to Krishna that is what could be a sustainable way of serving and in some special situations, some emergency situations if we have to stretch out of our comfort zone and do something which is not in our nature also, that we may do as surrender so from the individual’s perspective we can say that the individual should be ready to surrender and do whatever they are told to do but from the institution’s perspective or the leader’s perspective or the guide’s perspective they also have to see that what is good for the longevity of the spirituality of this person and they engage the person in a way that they can go on steadily so if we are engaged in a service that is according to our nature then even without somebody pushing us, we will keep doing it because that is just our nature so stretching according to our nature is a healthy way of stretching that’s my small understanding so thank you very much Shri Prabhupada Ki Jai Gaur Bhakt Vendaki Jai Jai Hare Krishna