Staying stable in unstable situations – Samarpan brahmachari class – Hindi

[Talk at Nashik, India]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna. So, today, for this dedication, I am quite unworthy, because I do not have any dedication. But, with your support, I might be able to get some dedication.
So, I will take this in three parts. How much we will be able to cover, we will see. It depends.
So, now, I will speak for 30-40 minutes on one topic, and then we will take questions. And then, around 11.30, we will have a break for 10 minutes. And then, again, we will reassemble.
After that, we will reassemble again for 1-2 hours. So, I will speak on one topic now, and then, when we get time, we will speak on another topic. So, making our centre on Krishna.
How we have to focus our devotional life on Krishna. This is our purana. How can we do this? We will discuss about this.
So, I will make a diagram with which I will tell you what it is. Whiteboard will come. But, for all of us, does anyone have a rough paper? You can just give me your book.
I will draw something. And, anyone can draw there. How does it happen in our life? When we come to this world, we can have different centres.
We all want to be centred on Krishna. But, some people come to Krishna because of cultural reasons. That, we liked this culture when we were And, we are here.
I like this culture. I want to spread this culture. We might have seen prayers, chants, shlokas.
Or, some of us come here for social reasons. What does social mean? Maybe, we want a good community. And, we are stuck in a bad community.
Or, we have bad experiences from a bad community. And, we want to live with good people. And, when we come to college or new places where we live alone, we like of devotees.
Because of this, we move forward. So, what is this? There can be four reasons. Can you get the white board? Alright.
Okay. So, when you come, you can just draw this. So, in Bhagavad Gita, God says that people come to Him for four main reasons.
What are these four reasons? Does anyone know? Artho, Jijnasur, Artharthi, and Gyani. Alright. So, these are given as examples in the Who is the example of Artho? Gajendra.
Gajendra. Yes. What is Artharthi? Dhruv Maharaj.
Dhruv Maharaj. Yes. Jijnasur, Shana Kadi Rishi.
There is not one example. There can be many examples. But, Jijnasa and Gyani are four examples.
Chattosree Kumar. Very good. Tell where these examples are given.
Four examples from the Pradhan Loop. This is Bakhtar Saheb Masunda. How is Goswami Acharya, he has not directly on Bhagavad Gita.
But, So, when we come with the devotees, for social reasons, you can envision a circle, a circle of Krishna, and from four directions we can come towards Krishna. One is Sanskritic, cultural, second is social, third is philosophical, and fourth is psychological. The thing is, especially when I am away from India for 7-8 hours a year, so many people who come to the temple, to the satsang, they come because they feel lonely.
Because they are in a foreign country, and if you go to a foreign country, especially in America, not so much in the UK, if you go to America or Canada, this is a very big country, Australia is also a very big country, and even though the city is very crowded, but still, if you go out of the cities, there are so many places, the thing is, people feel very easily lonely. And not only the place, but people also live in a very private way. So, people don’t talk to each other much.
So, suppose, because of this, people are not getting any company, and then they come to a spiritual temple, to a satsang, and then what happens, we feel that, oh, the devotees are so good. The devotees are so good, that’s why I want to get along with the devotees. So, the devotees talk to us, how are you, what is happening in your life, they give guidance.
So, many times, we get along with the devotees due to social reasons. And when they are telling four reasons like this, I hope English is okay, So, cultural, social, intellectual and mental. So, there can be different reasons, due to which we come to God.
When we come in this way, then there is something, which gives us God’s blessings. Now, what is the meaning of culture? Some people like Kirtan, some people like idols in the temple, some people like recitation very much. And when they see that such things are happening here, they feel, oh, it’s very good, I also want to do this.
And then, in that work, they get some kind of relief. Some people come due to spiritual knowledge, that means, they already had some questions, what is the purpose of life. Now, when such questions come, and someone gets good answers, then on the basis of spiritual knowledge, I start doing bhakti here.
Or, there are some people, now, social and mental are equal, but what does mental mean? Some people need a good group here. Some people are very emotionally needy here. If they get any problem, they have to talk to someone.
And they have to unwind a lot, unload. And if there is no one, then they completely get lost. So, this can also be the reason, that when we come here, the devotees listen to us.
And then, the care that we should have on our emotional level, that needs to be fulfilled. Now, in our bhakti, whatever gives us the refuge of Krishna, that sometimes becomes our refuge in the place of Krishna. The very thing that gives us shelter of Krishna, can become our shelter instead of Krishna.
We will get such devotees, who are not so good, who can do such things, that we will think, how can a devotee do such things? So, what is it? All these four paths, we can say, so sometimes, this becomes our refuge. And if this becomes our refuge, then what happens? This is such a place, that there can be an earthquake under anyone. I was in Wellington, I was giving a lecture, and suddenly, everyone started moving.
So, I thought, I am also moving, what has happened? I was surprised, I thought there is an earthquake. Now, everyone was sitting very calmly. I said, how can there be an earthquake? They said, there is an earthquake once or twice in a week.
But those are very small earthquakes, sometimes it is not even noticed. But sometimes it is noticed. But very rarely, there is a very severe earthquake.
But what happens, when we have no experience of an earthquake, then we get scared. So, suppose, I am sitting here, and there is an earthquake behind me. So, I can see it, but I won’t be so scared.
But if I am sitting here, and there is an earthquake here, then what will happen? I will be shaken. So, what happens is, someone’s main refuge is, what is it? Tattvajnaan. To study the scriptures, the Vedas, and then, sometimes, the behaviour of the devotees gets very bad.
So, everyone will feel bad. But if their main refuge is Tattvajnaan, then some devotee does some bad deeds, or some devotee, suppose, some senior devotee leaves the ashram, so, everyone gets distracted by that. But if someone’s refuge is Tattvajnaan, then the devotees won’t be so distracted by that.
But those whose main refuge is this, that the devotees are so good, and then, if the devotees do some inappropriate behaviour, then what happens is, suppose, there is an earthquake below them, then the person gets very distracted by that. And when this happens, then if, if our social, that is our main refuge, then it will be like this, that, when there is an earthquake, either we will be thrown out due to that earthquake, or we will be thrown inside. Inside means, we will go beyond that and take the refuge of Krishna.
Okay, if the devotees don’t behave well, still, I will take the refuge of Bhagwan Krishna. Or, many times, what will happen is, we will be thrown out due to that. They will say, they call themselves devotees, but they behave like this.
They behave better than this. And, why should I stay with devotees? Has anyone ever felt like this, that devotees behave better than devotees? Has anyone ever felt like this? Yes, for a few years I have been like this, everyone feels like this. Of course, one thing happens is that, we don’t see the devotees as closely as we see the devotees.
But, sometimes it can happen like this, that, we can discuss the reason for that later, but, when such an earthquake occurs, then, Krishna is such an element, under which no earthquake will ever occur. That, if we are getting distracted by something, then, that means, that we are distracted by that thing. What disturbs us most, reveals what shelters us the most.
The thing that distracts us the most, from that, we get to know, what are we getting distracted by. Has anyone ever said, that it is good to get shelter from devotees? Yes, that is important in a way. But, still, sometimes such a situation comes in our life, that when we, sometimes we feel loneliness in the company of devotees.
Loneliness happens in different ways. I was in America, in Phoenix, and I had gone to a seminar there, Overcoming Loneliness. How to get out of loneliness? Then, many times, I was messaged, that, don’t keep this topic.
I said, many people feel loneliness. Why should I keep it? He said, yes, but what is it? If a person says, that I am going to a seminar to get out of loneliness, then, what does it mean? He is criticising all his friends. No one can say on Facebook, that I went to Overcoming Loneliness seminar.
What will happen? He said, we are all your friends, still, you feel loneliness. Then, he said, what to do? Then, he changed it, that, nourishing rich relationships. How to make a good relationship? Then, many times, you move forward.
So, what is it? Loneliness happens in different ways. What does loneliness mean? Suppose, in a movie or a novel, you must have read that, someone is going in a ship, and the ship breaks down, and he gets stuck alone on an island, and he is all alone there. So, in a way, loneliness means, that there is no one with us.
But, another type of loneliness is, when, there are people around us, but they don’t understand us. The most painful loneliness is when we are surrounded by people who don’t understand us. So, we can’t reduce the burden of our heart.
And, many times, this happens. And, especially, the burden of loneliness is, to some extent, religious organisations that have high standards. Such religious organisations, where there are very high standards, this loneliness becomes very high.
Because, what happens is, every devotee has a problem in following certain standards. But, because of this, in our hearts, there is sadness, guilt, shame, fear. But, if they speak, then what happens? We feel that, what will they think about me? They will reject me.
So, in a way, this is their fear also. That’s why we can’t speak. Or, we have one type of mindset.
And, the rest of the devotees have a completely different mindset. So, what happens is, there is loneliness. We can’t speak to anyone.
And, when this happens, then how will we move forward? So, now, we see, in Mahabharata, in a way, this happened with Draupadi. Draupadi had five husbands. In her life, in Kuru Darbar, in Asat Sabha, when, not a single husband could help her, could protect her.
And, when she was expecting, her husband was being tortured so much, he was being insulted so much, but no one was able to stop him. And, when this was happening, that was a big earthquake in her life. But, she was only, looking at her husbands, looking at the Pandavas.
But, when she saw that no one was able to help her, then what did she do? She stopped looking at them and called out to God. Meaning, when there was an earthquake in her social life, when there was an earthquake, then, in a way, she got angry, but she didn’t get disheartened. She didn’t get disheartened.
These are all Mithyacharyas, they call themselves religious, but no one is protecting religion. She didn’t get disheartened by saying this. So, when such an earthquake happened, she took refuge in God.
So, sometimes it can happen like this, normally, association is the way to Krishna. But, sometimes, we have to go beyond the association to go to Krishna. Not forever, because all the devotees are wrong, I am right, and no one has accepted me as a devotee.
But, sometimes, there can be a situation in our life when we will be alone. And, when this happens, maybe we can be wrong, maybe other people can be wrong. Whenever there is a disagreement, they say, how many aspects of every story are there? One person tells that this happened, then the other person tells that this happened.
So, how many aspects of every story are there? Not two, but three. My side, your side, and the right side. My side, your side, and the right side.
So, what is it? It is not on purpose. But, sometimes, when we say something, maybe we will tell our mistake, but we will reduce it. And, we will increase the mistake of the other person.
Sometimes, we do it on purpose. Sometimes, it happens unknowingly. So, it is a kind of psychological defence mechanism.
On a mental level, we are protecting our own thoughts. Of course, sometimes, it goes against it. Sometimes, we give all the blame to ourselves.
That can also happen. But, here, when such an incident happens, that no one understands what we say. Suppose, we are right, but other people are not able to understand it.
Even then, we have to move forward. And, we have to take God’s blessings. In a way, when Prabhupada ji went to America, he was completely alone.
Because, all his gurubhais, none of them had such a strong motivation. They were not able to understand what he was preaching. And, some gurubhais told him, you have been living in a householder’s ashram till now.
You first come to our ashram. Take the training of our ashram. And, then, we will investigate.
And, if you are ready, then we will send you to America. So, Prabhupada ji thought, if I do all this, my life will be ruined. So, he said, I don’t want to do this.
Then, one of his gurubhais, K. J. Maharaj, who was talking to Prabhupada ji, said, yes, you have to preach. You have to become a sanyasi. So, he was eager to become a sanyasi.
But, he also did not help him to go to America. When Prabhupada had to go to preach, he was alone. And, even then, if we see, when Prabhupada ji, what was the name of the ship? Jaldut.
When he left Jaldut, where did he leave from? Calcutta. And, where was the headquarters of Gaudiya Math? Calcutta. But, when Prabhupada was leaving, he did not get any time from Gaudiya Math to see off.
He did not get any time. And, there were only 4-5 people. One was his son.
And, there were 2-3 people who were his acquaintances. Many were not even friends with Ganesh. So, when Prabhupada ji was 29 years old, when he was introduced to Gaudiya Math, he did different services at different places.
But, no one came to take him. No one came to take him. And, not only that, no one came to see him off.
He can say one thing. But, more than that, no one really supported him. He was in America many times.
He asked for a little help, but still, he was not getting any help. So, when he went to preach, in a way, Prabhupada ji had to leave the Sangh of Krishna’s devotees for Krishna. If his centre was the Sangh of devotees, then he could not have left India.
There was no Sangh there. Prabhupada ji gives a letter in 1967. When did Prabhupada ji go to America? 1965.
And, when did he establish this? 1966. At the end of 1967, there was a lecture. this organisation is from India and I am the only Indian in the organisation.
So, Prabhupada ji was completely alone. And, Prabhupada ji, in a way, I will talk about that later. When the Indians came, Prabhupada ji said that, they give complaints and give suggestions.
They complain and give suggestions. They don’t do any service. They don’t do anything practical.
They come to the temple and the idols of the temple are not in the east. There is no tower on it. There is no peak.
This is not there. Why is there no bell in the temple? That is very common to everyone. There should be a bell in the temple.
So, inside, which idol is important for people? Is there a bell or is it important? It happens many times. So, what is it? Prabhupada ji did not get any support. But, what is it? Because he was in Krishna.
That is why, even though he did not get any support at the social level, but he did not get disappointed by it. So, the Indians who were coming, who complained that this is not like that in the temple, that is not like that in the temple, so, in a way, what were they doing? They were coming from the cultural path. So, what did they think? That we have our Indian culture and we have to re-examine this culture here.
We have to keep this culture ahead. And they used to see that if there is nothing according to their culture, then they used to get very confused. So, what is their view? They are not coming for themselves, they are coming for the culture.
Now, the culture is important, but the culture also has a purpose. And that purpose is that we have to take refuge of God. And, sometimes, there can be some things which can help us in a cultural way.
But, sometimes, it can happen that the same cultural things can bring us to the refuge of God. So, when Prabhupada ji went to America, he had a contact with a very rich person, Padampath Singhania. And, he wanted to build a temple in America.
And, Prabhupada ji was talking and he said that we will send money and we will build a temple. But, what happened? At that time, the Indian government was putting a lot of regulation on foreign exchange. Foreign exchange means that money should not go out of India.
Every country has this feeling that it is good that we have money in our country, but money should not go out of our country. When, in countries like America, if someone has to do immigration, has to go there, has to do a job, then they are very worried that after coming to our country, other people are earning money and taking that money to their country. So, in America, Indian and Chinese, they are considered the wealthiest minorities.
India and China are the richest minorities. Minority? Ok. Alpha Sankhyak is very rich.
So, what happens is that there is a resentment towards both. I was in Alachua, in a devotee’s house. In America, you cannot employ anyone to clean your house or to wash utensils.
Why can’t you do it? Because there, you have to pay a minimum labour for any work. So, someone has to pay $12 or $15 for an hour. $15 means how much? 900 rupees? 900 or 1000 rupees.
So, if someone has to do an hour’s work, you have to pay 1000 rupees. So, in an hour, why are you not even sweeping? If you sweep for an hour, you have to pay 1000 rupees. And, especially in this country, there is a plumber who earns more than a PhD student.
I was in a devotee’s house in Australia. My husband and wife used to work. I used to stay in their house.
So, that day, they were at Prabhu’s house. I asked them, didn’t you go to work today? They said, no, we are expecting a plumber today. I asked them, why didn’t you go to work? the plumber has given an appointment at 10.30. I asked them, why didn’t you go to work? They said, the plumber has given an appointment at 10.30, and the boss has agreed.
So, I wanted to say that I was in a devotee’s house and there was an American lady. She was a very rich devotee. She was a sweeper.
She introduced me to her. She said, she was a disciple of Prabhu. She was a maid servant in her house.
She was a maid servant in her house. I was shocked by the culture. She was telling me, that many times, the disciples of Prabhu were not studying, or they left their studies We can care for them.
And if they work somewhere else, whatever they say, they have to pay minimum labour, but they won’t give any support. That’s why they say that it’s difficult for us too. How can you take service from a Prabhupada’s side? How can you take service from a Prabhupada’s side? But in that situation, he was the most suitable for them.
Otherwise, what will he do? Where will he go? If he works a little slowly, then he will agree with Prabhupada’s disciple. It won’t make much difference. Of course, he was working well.
So, we all have some cultural expectations. That such things should happen. And if it doesn’t happen, then if our main ashram is coming in a cultural way, then we will be very different from that.
That it shouldn’t happen like this. Why is it happening like this? And what happens sometimes? If… Maybe it happens here too. When I was in Pune, a devotee used to come to darshan every morning.
And as soon as darshan used to happen, darshan at 7.15 am, the aarti of darshan got over, and the cycle of complaints started. You didn’t wear the garland properly. This ornament is not good.
This is a flower garland. This is a peacock feather. It should be like this.
It is like this. And he used to make a complaint every day. So, he used to come to darshan, but he used to make a complaint.
And the rest of the devotees used to get upset with him. What is this? Why do you have to make a complaint every day? And it was not a big complaint. It was a small complaint.
There are some complaints which are necessary to be corrected. There are some complaints and some people make complaints because they think that by making a complaint, they are showing the world how expert they are. How expert they are, how knowledgeable they are, how intelligent they are.
So, many times what happens is that when there are relationships, I will just mention it briefly, that when there are fights between two people, then I have noticed when this happens. Sometimes it seems that two people are very different, but their friendship is very good. And two people are very similar, but if there is a difference in one thing, then, let’s say, there is a fight between them.
So, when do differences tear people apart? So, when does a person’s relationship break or there is a storm in it, that differences don’t tear people apart when differences are used to claim moral superiority over others. That’s when differences tear people apart. If I do this, you do that.
If both do it differently, then it’s okay, but when I do this, you do that. You do this, that’s why you are below me and I am higher than you. When due to differences, someone considers himself to be higher and shows others to be lower, so, when differences are used to claim moral superiority over others, that’s when differences pull people apart.
So, there can be different ways Okay, one devotee does it one way, another devotee does it the other way. But if a devotee thinks that what I am doing is right and what you are doing is wrong, then what happens is, not only are we discriminated against what we are doing, but what we are doing, who is doing it, is being attacked. That you are wrong.
And when that happens, then it becomes very difficult to tolerate. So, even in Sanskrit, there are many devotees who go from one place to another. If you go to different temples in India, each temple has its own culture.
There is a mood, you can call it a mood. And if you go from one place to another, then the feeling, there, Prabhupada ji used to quote that, Do in Rome as Romans do. Do according to the feeling of every place.
But if you don’t do this, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. And then what happens is, a lot of problems arise. Because the person cannot move forward.
So, yes, the culture is important to us, but at different places, different things can happen. But when someone is taking God’s blessings then what happens in Sanskrit, he feels that there is no God here. There cannot be a God here.
Why? Because this is, this culture is like this, we are not doing like this. In the same way, it can be at the level of tattva gyan. Now, what does tattva gyan mean? That some people, their main refuge is to study the scriptures, to walk in the knowledge that is available in the scriptures.
And when it happens like this, then if at the level of tattva gyan, some delusion comes, some problem comes, then it becomes very difficult to bear that. So, when I came to bhakti, I mostly came from this path. So, when I came with the devotees for the first time, then I read 2-3 books, and then I came to meet the devotees, they said that, just now, I was going to Mumbai with Radheshyam bro, and I said to Radheshyam bro, I have some questions.
Then he said, yes, ask. So, I had 11 full-scape pages filled with questions. So, Radheshyam bro, after seeing all the pages, he said, I will have to go to Mumbai many times with you.
So, whatever the questions were, I got the answers very well. I was very satisfied. But what happens is, when I was in bhakti for 7-8 years, after that, I started getting some questions, whose answers, no one was able to give me.
So, now, everyone can get such questions. And sometimes, there are such questions, whose answers, no one was able to give me. Or, if someone was able to give, it was a completely unsatisfying answer.
See, there are some questions, whose answers, like, there are answers, which are given, to offer explanation. And there are answers, which are given, to end discussion. So, we bhaktas have one answer.
Achintya. Now, Jeeva Goswami, he uses the word achintya, according to a specific definition. But, many times, bhaktas, if they don’t have that much knowledge, then, whatever the answer is, it is achintya.
And, sometimes, it becomes very exasperating. It troubles a lot. So, what happened then, and, I used to get some questions, and, I used to get disturbed by those questions, that, I am not getting the answer.
And, sometimes, I used to ask a question to someone, and, they didn’t get the answer, and, I was disturbed, that, they were not disturbed by the question. This is a question. I am troubled.
Why are you not troubled? What difference does it make? Chant it. Everything will be fine. So, this is what happened at that time.
And, later, after many years, I understood, that, in reality, what was happening, that, most of the bhaktas, all of us, listen to tattva gyan, and, basic tattva gyan, everyone should know, that, I am not a body, I am a soul, I am a spiritual world, I have to go here, I have to go there. But, the complexity of tattva gyan, most people are not interested in that. So, those, who were not interested in tattva gyan, they, when, there was an earthquake below me, they could not see the earthquake.
So, why are you getting so disturbed? Why are you not getting disturbed? I had such a question. Then, later, what happened, like, I, started coming in association with international bhaktas. At that time, I was not travelling, but, there were e-mails, and so on.
Some bhaktas came, so, there is Karmaprabhu, who is a scientist, and, he is also, a very good bhakta. So, through him, such international, international, bhaktas, scholars, etc., they have some internet forums, online groups, e-groups, so, I became a member of that. And, then, I came to know, that, the question I have, more than me, why are there more senior bhaktas? There are some, who are sanyasis, gurus, and, who have a lot of respect, but, those, whose question I have, they, they are also struggling with those same questions.
And, they are looking for an answer. Sometimes, some bhaktas, give a very fast answer, a ready answer. But, that answer, will satisfy some people, will not satisfy some people.
So, now, at that time, what happened? When I felt understood, what happens is, sometimes, when a question comes, so, when, a question comes, it means, doubt. So, doubt, we can give it in two ways. That, devotees, see doubt, as a spiritual weakness.
Intellectuals, see doubt, as a intellectual strength. The bhakta, who has a doubt, means, that, your faith is less, that is why, you have a doubt. But, the intelligent people, who are not intelligent, we can say, intelligent people, they, they, they, they don’t believe in anything.
So, if, in a way, one sign of intelligence, is to have doubts. It’s told in the Bhagwatam to us, तसमशयो विपर्यास, तो समशय करना, ये एक बुद्धी का लक्षण है, कि आप एक शांप्पू ले गा, और, and you will become very attractive. Now, if someone who doesn’t have any doubt or intellect says, I will become attractive with this shampoo.
But the one who has intellect says, No, this cannot be true. A person’s personality doesn’t change with a shampoo. So, he doesn’t become attractive.
So, doubting is also a power. But what do we understand when doubt is a sign of the intelligence, but doubt is not the only sign of intelligence. Doubting is a sign of intellect.
But doubting is not a sign of the intelligence. If we are moving forward intellectually, if someone is driving a car, while driving the car, there is an accelerator, which is called a gas in America. The car moves forward with the accelerator.
And the car slows down and stops with the brake. So, whenever we want to move forward in life, then the faith is like an accelerator. And the doubt is like a brake.
And both are necessary to drive a car. Sometimes, if we have a lot of faith, then what happens? We drive very fast. And then later we feel that this is not right, this is not like that.
This is not like the way I thought. So, sometimes we have to press the accelerator while driving a car. Sometimes, if the car is going out of the road, we are going to hit someone or there is going to be an accident, then we have to press the brake.
So, both are necessary. But some people, if they do not have that much intelligence, they never press that much brake. So, where I found a like-minded association, who are such devotees, who had a lot of doubts.
They had more doubts than me. They are more mature devotees than me. But still, they had more doubts than me.
So, how did it happen? That’s when I felt understood that this is a doubt. And we will face this doubt for the rest of our lives. And we will go ahead with our own explanation of how to face it.
So, what happened at that time? This was a philosophical earthquake. At the level of spiritual knowledge. So, actually, I could not directly reach Krishna, but I went through the Sookshila way.
That means, I met such devotees, where I could have a little faith and experience of God. How to stay in connection with God, I could do that. That means, if we are focused on one thing, then either we should focus directly on God, we should go to God, or if there is an earthquake in that, then our connection with God should not be limited to one path.
If someone worships God very well, but does not care for the devotees, then at what level is that? Yes, at the level of spiritual knowledge. That means, if one worships God, then it is a culture. But that is their only path.
And there is no value of being with the devotees. So, all of us, in our lives, sometimes there will be a storm, an earthquake. And when there is an earthquake, then it is not that the way of devotion is not working.
We thought that by doing devotion, peace and happiness will come to the mind. But I am getting so confused, that is devotion not working? No, devotion is working. But in devotion, if we have taken refuge in something other than Krishna, even if it is not related to Krishna, but it is still different from Krishna, then that earthquake reminds us in a way, that I have to take refuge in Krishna.
And if we can understand these earthquakes well, then our devotion will not decrease, but it will increase. And we will go closer to God. So, in conclusion, I just discussed how we have to make ourselves the centre of God in our lives.
And many times we come closer to God in different ways. For example, in society, we need a good company, or we like devotees, that is why. It can be intellectual, or it can be cultural, or it can be mental.
But whichever way we come closer to God, sometimes the same path, or the same thing that gives us God’s refuge, that can be our refuge. And when this happens, then if there is anything other than God, our refuge, then there can be an earthquake under it. And when that earthquake comes, then we get distracted.
So, the thing that we are getting distracted from, we can understand from that, that what we have taken refuge in. And when such an earthquake happens, then we have a good relationship with the devotees, we like the devotees, but sometimes the devotees behave badly. So, then we have to see that I will be thrown out if I try to catch this.
Or I will be thrown inside, that is, I will come closer to God. So, when Draupadi was following her husband’s religion, but when her husband was not able to help her, then she herself took God’s refuge. Like Prabhupada ji also, when he was in India, sometimes he was doing bhakti with Gaudiya Math, he was helping his Gurudwara brothers in Gaudiya Math.
But when he had to go abroad, he had to go alone. Loneliness means, not only we are alone in the world, but when no one understands us, then loneliness is much more than that. And when we talk about culture, some people, some cultural practises, traditions, or some practises, they consider them to be very important.
And if that is not happening, then they feel that this temple is not equal. But it is not like that. The purpose of culture is to take refuge in God.
Even if there is a little difference, we have to go beyond that and take refuge in God. In the end, I saw at a very deep level, at the level of spiritual knowledge, that if we are having doubts, then it means that this is a need of our own. And if we stay with the devotees who can understand our needs, then we can move forward.
If we have an earthquake in anything, then we can directly take refuge in God. Or we can keep our relationship with God in different ways. Even if there is a little difference, then we will keep moving towards God in different ways.
Thank you very much. Does anyone have any questions? See, it is not like that. Many times it happens like this.
So, here… Okay. We will take one question. And then later, maybe we can talk personally later.
Because this can be a whole seminar. So, here, actually I have a PowerPoint of this. Maybe later I will show you about it.
But I will explain it to you now. So, many times it happens like this. Our… Prabhupadaji has told some incidents, like whether we went to the moon or not.
So, many times, in our organisation, the most extreme statements of Prabhupadaji, are taken by the devotees. And here, what Prabhupadaji has told is like this. But what Prabhupadaji has… He has made different statements on every subject.
And… Following our Guru Sadhshastra… Following means there is not just one line. If it is in this line, then you follow it. If not, then you are wrong.
There is a circle like this. And in that circle, different positions can be there. Different thoughts can be there.
And if Prabhupadaji, while confirming that thought, if he has done even one Vidhan, then that thought is acceptable. So, in this too… Now, what Prabhupadaji has said about the moon. There is a complete article on this on my website, spiritualscientist.com. But Prabhupadaji, primarily, has made three types of Vidhans there.
One is that… We did not go out of the wisdom of India. In a way, it was a farce. The second is that we went out of the earth, but we went to some other planet.
We did not go to the moon. The third is that we went to the moon, but we could not access the moon. Because we could not experience the moon.
Good. Thank you. We could not experience the moon.
So now, there are three types of statements of Prabhupadaji. And what was Prabhupadaji’s main feeling? If you know Bhagavad Gita, Prabhupadaji says in the beginning that we have tried a lot to go to the moon, but we have not tried to raise our consciousness. And Bhagavad Gita will tell you how to raise your consciousness.
So, what was Prabhupadaji’s main feeling? Prabhupadaji’s main feeling was that going to the moon will not make much difference. Prabhupadaji’s main intention is that you should develop your consciousness. You should raise your consciousness.
So, whatever Prabhupadaji has said, we have to keep in front of us the main purpose of it. And then, according to that, we can see the different things that Prabhupadaji has said. So, Prabhupadaji, is this a central teaching of the Shastras that man can go to the moon? No, this is not the central teaching of the Shastras.
What is the central teaching of the Shastras? That you are the body, not the soul. The soul should worship Bhagavan and should worship Bhagavad Gita. So, the main teaching of the Shastras is not the central teaching of the Shastras.
We do not need to make it the central teaching of the Shastras. This means that, Prabhupadaji writes in Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 10, Intelligence means to see things in their proper perspective. Buddhi means to understand everything in a proper way.
This is the aim of buddhi. So, Prabhupadaji, some people can say, some devotees can say that the whole mission of the moon was bogus. Nothing like that happened.
And for that, some conspiracy theories, some videos can be shown, this can be shown, that can be shown. Now, it is possible. Oh God! Sorry.
Just put it aside. So, now it is possible. But some devotees can say that, even if we have gone to the moon, what difference does it make? What does Prabhupadaji mean, primarily? That, when Prabhupadaji says that we have not gone to the moon, what is his intention? That the moon is a higher planet and you cannot get crash into the higher planet.
But, Prabhupadaji has said many times, even if we have gone, what difference does it make? And there are such incidents in the Shastras, like, Ravana had attacked heaven, Arjuna had also gone to heaven, but how did Arjuna go to heaven? Indra had called him, that is why he went to heaven. How did Ravana go? Ravana had attacked heaven. Bali Maharaj had also attacked heaven.
So, now, both possibilities are there. So, if someone has gone there then, if someone, we have to see, that people, the basic principle of bhakti, we have to bring it to that. And the rest, whatever is controversial, on that, we do not have to waste our intelligence and time.
So, if someone thinks that we had gone to the moon, okay, we had gone, but what is the big difference What are we going to do Ahar Nidra Vahe Maithum. And what are we going to do? In 1969, when funding was getting less, to go to the moon, then their main promise was, that, like you go to a resort on a hill station, similarly, you can go to the moon for a picnic. And what will you do there? What do people do on a picnic? Ahar Nidra Vahe Maithum.
So, in that, your consciousness is not going to make much difference. So, that is why, we do not have to put much pressure on such things. So, if someone thinks that we had gone to the moon, or we are going to go to the moon, then, just do not get into it too much.
It is possible. Prabhupada ji’s main point was that, you, just by going to the upper planets, physically, it does not make much difference, as much as you have to raise your consciousness. And, to help people raise their consciousness, whatever is convenient, they can do.
So, there can be any possibility in all three. There is a moon in India. Maybe, the moon can go, but, it will not be able to access the moon.
What does it mean, It means, it will not be able to experience the moon. How is it? The moon is a higher planet. And, just like a computer, a big computer, it has different levels of access.
If someone, if the entire data of a company is in a big computer, then, the CEO of the company, can see all the data. But, if it is a clerk, he can only see, enter it in this file. And, he will not be able to see the rest.
So, that person does not have that much authority, that much right, to see all the data. Everything is on the computer, but, he will not be able to see the files. So, it is the same.
So, someone, physically, can go to the computer, but, if he does not have access, if he does not have a password, then, he will not be able to see what is in the computer. In the same way, someone, physically, even if he walks on the moon, he can go. If he develops his spiritual knowledge, then, even if he walks, he will not be able to experience the moon.
Because, the moon, is a part of heaven. And, to experience it, the consciousness, should be like heaven. If it is not there, then, the experience of the moon, in the form of heaven, will not be there, in the form of heaven.
The moon, will be seen, as a place, like a desert. So, in this, we do not have to, argue with anyone. We, keep our purpose, in the centre, and, we come back to it.
It is different. What is that? Bhagwat, Bhagwat, has told, that, the sun is, more than the moon, the moon is, more distant than the sun. That, is completely different.
What is that? First of all, the cosmology, the, cosmology, the description, of the universe, that, is, contemplation, it is told. Our, own, Acharyas, when, they have to, do some calculations, and, for that, some calculations, have to be done, have to be calculated. So, someone, has told, that, Bhagwatam, the, description, of the universe, has not been used.
Yes, Vishwanath Chakraborty, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, if, they tell the kundali, or, if they discuss Krishna’s kundali, then, Bhagwatam, the, the, the, description, of the universe, in that, the matra, etc., has not been mentioned, has not been used. So, in our, Indian, culture, there is, description, of the universe, which is called, Jyotish Shastra, like Surya Siddhant, which was taught by, Bhagwan Sudhakuna, there is Siddhant Shastra, and, in that, the description, is very different. And, if you have heard, in Indian history, Aryabhat, who were, great, mathematicians, Aryabhat, Aryabhat, has also written, Aryabhat, has also said, that, Jyotish Shastra, their, description, of the universe, is understandable, but, of Bhagwatam, is also not understandable.
But, someone, 1500 years ago, I don’t know, when Aryabhat was, exactly, but, around, 1500 years ago, sometime, between 1000-1500 years, so, Aryabhat, also had, this, opposition, that, this is different, and, they never said, that Bhagwatam is wrong, is right. So, we don’t have to be, more traditional, than the tradition. That, our, our tradition, doesn’t need to be, traditional.
Our tradition, which, Jyotish Shastra, and, is of Bhagwatam, in that, never, by seeing the difference, has, because of that, because of that, has not, made a big debate. So, now see, So, when Shuddha Goswami was 7 days away from death, he did not go for a Ph.D. in Cosmology. He did not want to do a doctorate in the knowledge of the universe.
He wanted to think about God. And, when I was in Perth, I was talking to Bhurjan Prabhu about this. Bhurjan Prabhu has written a good paper about the Cosmology of the 5th Canto.
And, he has written about the thought flow. Everyone’s thought flow is how you should become detached from the world and attached to the Lord. So, what is there in the 5th Canto? Whose story is there in the 5th Canto? Bharat Maharaj’s story.
And, what is the purpose of Bharat Maharaj’s story? Bharat Maharaj had so much wealth, and then he showed his detachment, still he became attached. And, later on, he became unattached and started worshipping the Lord. So, the story that Bharat Maharaj has told, later on, he has told it in the form of a vision of the universe.
How he has told? There are different people in the universe. There are different people. There are different people living there.
But, what are they all doing? They are doing Dharma. They are worshipping the Lord. And, the purpose of the whole story is that we have to worship the Lord.
So, it does not mean that what Bhagwatam has told is right or wrong. We do not have to say that. This is a model.
And, for example, if you look at our face from the point of view of Ayurveda and from the point of view of Allopathy. So, in Ayurveda, it is said that Kapha, Vata, Pitta. Now, if you look at Allopathy, you will not be able to tell Kapha, Vata, Pitta.
You can call Kapha as mucus, but it is not exactly the same. So, if Ayurveda says that Jatharagni is good for you, then your health will be good. So, now, if you look at Allopathy, there is no such thing as Jatharagni.
Metabolism is there, but there is no Agni. So, what is this? All kinds of perspectives are imagined according to the perspectives. So, the model of Allopathy is also correct.
People get sick and recover from it. And, the model of Ayurveda is also correct. So, what is this? There can be different models of the body in this way.
And, we cannot compare one model and another model directly. Every model has to be referenced within itself. So, how do we understand how the body works with Kapha, Vata, Pitta? We can understand it well.
So, now, why am I giving all this in the past tense? In Bhagavatam, there is a vertical dimension of the universe. Vertical dimension means a direction that climbs up. Now, we say that we are very simplistic in our description of the universe.
Now, if you see, India and America are in the opposite direction of the earth. If you see the map of the earth, if you make it round, then India and America are in the opposite direction. If you ask an Indian, where is heaven? He will say, up.
If you ask someone in America, where is heaven? He will say, up. If you ask someone in India, where is heaven? He will say, up. If you ask someone in Australia, where is heaven? He will say, up.
So, we say up, but it is not a simplistically geographical up. It is not like a round circle. It is a level of existence.
It is a height. It is a higher level of existence. It is not simply a geographical up.
It is higher than the sun. If the earth is here, then the sun is here and the moon is here. But, how is it? Suppose, this is your private ashram.
What is the name of the place where I am staying? Madhavan. Now, we are on the third floor. Suppose, Madhavan is on the 20th floor.
And someone is staying on the 20th floor of Madhavan. So, the distance from the third floor to the 20th floor is very long. But, suppose, there is a building in Dwarka.
And in the building of Dwarka, someone is staying on the 4th floor. So, from a vertical perspective, the one who is staying on the 20th floor in Madhavan is further away. The one who is staying on the 4th floor in Dwarka is closer.
It is vertical. But, if you make it diagonal, then if you see the total distance, the one who is staying on the 20th floor in Madhavan is closer. But, from the perspective of height, he is higher.
So, if you see the distances in Jyotish Shastra, then the effective distance, the moon is closer to the sun. But, in the vertical distance, the moon is higher. No more questions on this.
Yes, Prabhu. He has a simple answer. Scientists can say that, we have proven so many other things.
Why are you not focussing on that? Why do you only focus on Big Bang? Just like we say, why do you focus on Moon? I agree with you. I also have a cross-question like that. And, it boils down to, you know, where our faith is.
So, now, we cannot disregard science totally, because science has given us, known so many things. Agreed. So, this is scriptural knowledge.
In this, there is a part, which agrees with science. There is a part, which disagrees with science. Disagrees.
And, a big part is, Transient Science. So, when we study scriptures, the relationship between, scriptural knowledge and, scientific knowledge, can be something, which is according to the scriptures. Scriptural knowledge and, scientific knowledge can be similar.
Like, Vedic Mathematics can be. Or, some researches, about the existence of the soul, can be something like, the memory of rebirth, etc. So, some are agreed with.
Some are disagreed with. There is a contradiction. And, the knowledge of big scriptures, is beyond science.
Now, this is a spiritual world, where God is a, wearing a peacock feather, wearing a peacock feather, wearing a peacock feather. This knowledge can neither prove, nor can it disprove. So, primarily, if we look at our practical life, then which of these, do we focus more on knowledge? We come to study scriptures, the knowledge, which we do not get from science, we have to do japa, we have to worship idols, we have to develop our consciousness.
So, the main objective, is the knowledge, that transcends science. So, we can say, that, knowledge of matter, and knowledge of what matters. That, the root element, and how we have to live our life, that is the knowledge.
So, whenever we get knowledge, whatever be the method, there is a purpose in it. So, according to the purpose, that, now this is a room, this room also, if we want to get knowledge about the room, so, in this, if you sit in this room, once you come after giving a lecture, so, I ask someone here, how many power switches were there here? He says, I have not seen. We do not need to know that.
The one who has made this room, who always stays here, he might know. So, whenever we get any knowledge, so, basically, we look at three things. What is my purpose? What will help me get to my purpose? And what will get in my purpose? Now, you all have come here, to listen to a lecture.
So, in listening to this lecture, what will help you? Is there a place, where I can sit comfortably? Is there a place for everyone to sit? If I feel a little hot, can I sit near the window? Can I sit under the fan? And, what is the difference? Suppose, there is another devotee, who is in one place, near the door, and people keep coming, he does not pay attention. So, maybe I will not sit near the door. If you get bored, then sitting near the door will be interesting for you.
So, so, our mind is so narrow, that no one has comprehensive knowledge. So, we all have operational knowledge, not exhaustive knowledge. Operational knowledge.
So, what is the purpose of Shastra? Shastra, as I told you, Arjuna asked the question, what is Dharma? Now, when Krishna, when Arjuna, when Arjuna, won the war of Kurukshetra, sorry, won the war of Kurukshetra, so, on what basis did he win the war of Kurukshetra? By the knowledge of Bhagavad Gita, which Krishna had given him, or, by the knowledge of Dhanurudra, which he had obtained from Drona, or, which he had learned all his life. By whom did he win? Both. How did he win? Yes, correct.
Thank you. What to do in life, he got it from Bhagavad Gita. How to do it in life, where did he get it from? He had already obtained it.
Now, the knowledge of Bhagavad Gita is so important, that, throughout his life, Parikshit Maharaj lived without listening to Bhagavad Gita. And, when did he listen to Bhagavad Gita? At the end of his life. It is not that he was ignorant, he was a devotee, but, if we look at Bhagavad Gita from a historical point of view, then someone will say that, the knowledge of Bhagavad Gita is enough for you to live your life.
So, the chief shloka of Bhagavad Gita, he has lived his whole life without the knowledge of Bhagavad Gita. So, what is happening? It is not that, when he wanted to rule, then, how to rule, that is a kingdom. He learned from Yudhishthira Maharaj, from his separate gurus, according to that he ruled.
In Bhagavatam also, when Bhishma Pitam describes, he gives knowledge to Yudhishthira Maharaj, so, his extensive description comes in Shanti Parva, Nushasan Parva of Mahabharata. But, in Bhagavatam, it is said that, he gave it for the kingdom, and later, his prayers are told. So, here, sometimes, we may overestimate the scope of scriptural knowledge.
And sometimes, atheists may overestimate the scope of scientific knowledge. So, both have their own, so, what does spiritual knowledge tell us, what does scriptural knowledge tell us, and what does scientific knowledge tell us, both have their own scope. So, if we understand the scope, then, the scope of knowledge will be less.
So, when we, scientists, talk about Big Bang theory, then, what we are doing, is very important. Because, scientists themselves, who are honest scientists, they themselves say that, there are some questions, which science can’t answer. The question about origins.
I say three things, origins, value, and purpose. Where did we come from? How do we want to live our lives? And how, means, what choices do we have to make? And then, for whom do we want to live our lives? What purpose do we want to live our lives? Science can’t tell us this. So, science is not moral, science is not immoral, science is amoral.
Amoral means, science doesn’t tell us, what ethical choices we have to make. Science can tell you, that, now this person is in coma, if you remove his oxygen support, he will die. But, whether to remove oxygen support or not, science can’t tell you.
This is an ethical decision. And we do this according to our ethical values. So, if we, when we criticise science, sometimes, we as devotees, try to be better scientists than scientists.
We say, we are better scientists than scientists. If we try to do that, if someone is a good scientist, then he will beat us up. We can’t do that.
But, there are times, when science claims to answer questions that are outside the scope of science. So, where did the universe come from? This is not a scientific question. This is a philosophical question.
Because, science, on what basis does it work? Science works on certain assumptions. And what are the assumptions? The world exists, and the world operates according to laws of nature. And then, according to the laws of nature, the universe works.
So, when there was no universe, then what was it doing? Science can’t tell. So, we should be careful, that when we criticise science, we should not criticise it in such a way, that we show, okay, science made this mistake, later they corrected it. So, what happens? It seems very small.
There have been so many bad things in the history of religion, people can also blame it. But, what are we doing? Practical mistakes by science. That, okay, the scientist made this mistake, but this medicine was wrong, this medicine was wrong, then later it came out right.
If you see that, it is fine, but it becomes like a cheap shot. What is the real issue? We don’t have to position science and scripture as competitors to each other. To position scripture as a competitor to science, is to devalue scripture.
If we put scripture as a competitor to science, then we are devaluing it. To tell us, how to run an aeroplane, to tell us this, Parikshit Maharaj did not tell Shukadev Goswami Bhagwatam. That knowledge can be there in scriptures, but we don’t have to compare it on that basis.
The purpose of scriptures is very important. So, sometimes, when scientists go beyond science and give some answers, if a scientist says that there is no existence of God, then he is telling his own opinion, he is not telling a scientific conclusion. A scientist can have his own opinion, a scientist can be an atheist, but atheism is not a necessary conclusion of science.
It is a personal opinion. So, we can take an issue on that. But if we are criticising science, then when science goes beyond its scope, then we can criticise it.
So, the second question is, is there any scope of knowledge of scriptures? Sometimes we say, there is all knowledge in scriptures. There is philosophical knowledge, there is historical knowledge, there is psychological knowledge, there is all knowledge. It is possible, that we have got all knowledge on the basis of Bhagavatam.
Jiva Goswami, he knew how to write on Bhagavatam, but what did he do? He went to Mayavad Sampradaya in Maranasi and learned Sanskrit there. sometimes, scriptures are authority for its purpose. We have to be Krishna Bhavna, for that, the second knowledge, we are not saying that we are wrong in scriptures, but that may not be the philosophical world, we can see it in different ways.
So, that is why, when we, maybe Prabhupada ji has done some vidhans, or there are some vidhans in scriptures, we don’t need to differentiate it from science. So, if we understand everyone’s scope, then I am saying that it is not important. If someone has read Manu Chandra, then he will come in this section.
If someone says that this is the principle of scriptures, this is the lesson of scriptures, that he cannot go to Manu Chandra, then we can talk about whether this is the lesson of scriptures. Because there is no such explicit shloka in scriptures that he cannot go to Manu Chandra. But even if it is so, then he is coming in this section.
So, we are not reading scriptures because we are not reading how we can make faster aeroplanes or how we can make faster computers. We are not reading scriptures to learn this. So, if we understand everyone’s purpose, then we can avoid the unnecessary controversies.
Sometimes it happens that Prabhupada ji has said an incident, that is why, we have to defend it at all costs. It is not like that. Prabhupada ji has said in different instances.
I told you that I had some doubts Let me give you an example. Prabhupada ji has said in Leela Amrit that till year 2000, there will be so much pollution on the earth that no human being will have to live inside the earth like a rat. And till when will this happen? Till year 2000.
What is happening now? Are we all living inside the earth? So, I asked a senior devotee and his first answer was that what are the shlokas? Tastyaite Katite Artha Prakashante Mahatmana Yasya Deve Para Bhakti Tatha Deve Tatha Guru Tastyaite Katite Artha Prakashante Mahatmana And his answer was that the one who has true faith in Guru and Bhagwan will never have such questions. So, later And then I went to America, and there is a city in America, it is very cold in that city. So, not the whole city, but one part of it, they have made it like a greenhouse.
It means the whole city is covered. For example, if a greenhouse gets cold, they cover it. So, they have made a whole part of the city.
So, they said, look, Prabhupada ji’s prediction is coming true. He is not living inside the ground, he has made something on the ground. And it is not because of pollution, it is to regulate the environment.
So, they were not agreeing at all. And then later, I asked another devotee. And then he said something about Prabhupada ji in 1975.
I will tell you later. And then what happened later? So, Prabhupada ji, if you go to Vedabase, then you will see that Prabhupada ji’s daily conversations are also date-wise. So, three days before that, Prabhupada ji had a conversation on a morning walk.
And at that time, a devotee had shown Prabhupada ji a report. Even today, some people say that global warming is happening, climate change is happening, that there are a lot of problems in the environment, and a lot of destruction will be caused by it. So, it was a report of such a society that there will be so much pollution up to 2000, that no human being will be able to live on earth.
And everyone will have to live inside the earth. And Prabhupada ji was quoting that. So, do you understand now? So, now, Prabhupada ji is not telling the scriptures.
So, we do not need to defend this statement. So, if we say to someone that if you do not believe that no one can live on earth after 2000, then you do not believe in the scriptures. So, do we have to close our eyes and live? We are all living on earth.
So, it is important to see where and when Prabhupada ji has spoken. And in 1976, Prabhupada ji sent a letter to his disciple. His disciple told him that I want to transcribe all your lectures, so that I can understand your message better.
And Prabhupada ji writes that there is no need to do this. I have given my message in my scriptures, and if you keep transcribing all my lectures, then it will become an effort. There is no need to do this.
But what has happened is that we have transcribed not only Prabhupada ji’s lectures, but also the conversations of Prabhupada ji with his private disciples. We have transcribed all his lectures and have put all his lectures on the internet. And what we do is that we give the same authority to the things which Prabhupada ji has told privately.
So, what has Prabhupada ji said, where has he said it, why has he said it, on what basis has he said it, we have to see that. So, we have to defend what Prabhupada ji has said. If we keep that out, then we will become fanatical.
Does that answer your question? Yes, please. As you said, there are different examples of that. Durvasa Muni says, he was virtuous, that is why he went.
But Ravana was not even virtuous, yet he attacked heaven. So, there are different examples of that. So, we shouldn’t reduce Prabhupada down to the most extreme statements that he has made.
So, there will be violence against Prabhupada ji. What difference does it make? Yes, sure. So, what is it, the propagator, especially when he answers controversial questions, when he answers controversial questions, he is like a dead body.
If someone answers, then people will beat him from outside. This is not right. If someone else answers, then people will beat him from inside.
This is not faithful. So, there is something going on between the two of them. Oh God, that’s superb.
Once someone asked Prabhupada ji, how many windows are there in the next room? So, Prabhupada ji, my next question. We don’t have to make, we don’t have to make Prabhupada ji the supreme. Prabhupada ji is not God.
And this is his fundamental principle. Now, we don’t know what happened in these three things. And we have come to do bhakti, we are not doing investigative journalism to see what has actually happened.
Yeah, we don’t know. And there is one more thing in this, one of Prabhupada ji’s followers said, Prabhupada ji, there are some statements, because we are in ISKCON, we can’t go against Prabhupada ji, but we don’t have to confirm Prabhupada ji every time. I don’t know why Prabhupada ji said this.
I don’t know why Prabhupada ji said this. And basically, don’t prolong that topic too much. That is the point.
The more we prolong that topic, the weaker we will become. And we will challenge the purity of the people. I can’t believe this.
So, Prabhupada ji, it is not right to make every statement of his a shastra. Prabhupada ji was a human being. So, if he said, Prabhupada ji said somewhere, if he has expressed his opinion on some political issues, then it is not a shastra statement.
It is his knowledge and we respect it. But it is not that it is not a shastra statement. So, if this political issue was like this, or this country was like this, or that country is like this, then it is not a shastra statement.
It is his opinion. So, if we use the method given by Prabhupada ji, Guru, Sadhu, Shastra, then we will understand which statements of Prabhupada ji are important, and then we can focus our propaganda on that. Next question.
Yes. Ask a copy. Ask to Krishna, but they can also become our shelter.
So, making these processes as a shelter, yes, there may be problems sometimes, but they can be made. For example, Bhakto ka sanghi is called ashti matre, that this is my stick to walk on, I cannot walk without it. And Krishna means his devotees, his dham, his idols, everything comes in it.
Yes, definitely. But are we seeing that relationship? Means, when I like devotees very much, so am I seeing that they are so good, because Krishna’s love is coming through them? Is it very good, boss? Yesterday they were good, today they are not good. What has happened to them? If I see that they have a relationship with Krishna, what does it mean? That Lord Krishna’s love, it is coming through these devotees also.
And maybe today, Lord Krishna’s love will come through this devotee also. And tomorrow, if something changes, then that love may not come through them, that love will not come through them, it will come through someone else. So then, if we see Krishna, everything is in Krishna, but are we seeing a relationship with Krishna? Krishna is seeing those things as a source.
Everything attractive comes from Krishna, but everything attractive doesn’t always take us to Krishna. So whoever is attractive to us, whoever gives us peace, gives us strength, all that comes from Krishna. But is he taking me towards Krishna? We have to see for ourselves.
So sometimes it may happen that we may be attracted towards Krishna. So this earthquake, this is an exceptional thing, it is not always there. We are ordinary.
If a person is a little philosophical, then his main association with God may be through the study of scriptures. But that need not be his only shelter. So sometimes if he is not getting it, then also we should move ahead.
But it is not that it should never happen. One thing is that even if we understand that my ultimate goal is God, but the kind of body and mind we have, that is not going to change. If someone is primarily intellectual, then their primary service in association with God will be on a spiritual level only.
If someone is a priest, and that is their primary service, then on a cultural level, doing a good decoration of God, doing a good worship, doing a good prayer, that will be their primary service. That will also be their primary thought. So that cannot change.
But as we say, loyalty, attachment and interest. What is the difference between attachment and interest? In attachment, we can come from that service. In interest, we can come from the purpose of that service.
So there is a little difference. So there will be no difference. Our nature, and the nature of our worship, will not change.
But where, who do we consider most important? Do we consider the method most important, or the purpose of the method most important? There will be a lot of difference. Does this answer your question? Yes. Yes.
So sometimes, we come to ISKCON, to worship God, But due to ISKCON, our spiritual progress, or our intellect, is hindered. This is natural, that every structure provides something, and deprives us of something. Any structure, gives us something, and deprives us of something.
For example, if we have to go to Bombay from here, and if we choose one path, then we will see the things on that path. If we have to see a river, or a mountain, but we will not see the things on the other path. So, let me put it this way, that what is under the mountain, is a material consciousness.
What is above the mountain, is a spiritual consciousness. And to go above the mountain, there are different paths. We can call it different religions, different scriptures, or different communities.
So, we have to choose one path. Because, if we choose one path, we will not go above. It is not necessary that our path should be the most comfortable, the best, the simplest.
But we have chosen one path, and if we do not commit to that path, we will not progress. But, this does not mean that we cannot go above even through other paths. But, if I have to go, I have to go above this path.
So, if someone is down, and keeps on talking, this path is good, that path is good, that path is not good, then he will stay down all his life. What is the opposite of this? The one who stays down, and the one who is going through the other path, he keeps on pulling everyone down. Don’t go up, don’t go up.
That is wrong. He himself is not going up, and no one else is going up. That is not good.
So, go above your own path. But, if someone is doing bhakti in a different way, then, if we talk to them, then, if I go up this hill, I can see this, I can see the peak this way, I can see the path this way, I can see the hill this way, I can see all the dirt this way, and they can see it that way. So, this is the same, this is different.
So, the one who is doing bhakti in a different way, we don’t have to dismiss them, that they are wrong. What you are doing, you can see something else from that path. We can see something else.
So, all the religions are for God. God is not for the religions. The purpose of religion is God.
God is not for religion. Religion is for God. Sometimes, some religions say that they make God their monopoly product.
That God is found in our own path. Sometimes, God is not found. It is not like that.
So, now, practically, our organisation to some extent, we are very inclusive on the level of But on the practical level, we sometimes become very limited. So, for this, this is practical. Some devotees say that you should not associate with the devotees of Gaudiya Math.
So, Gaudiya Math is like our cousins. They are like our cousins. We are one community.
So, why should we not associate with them? On the level of spiritual knowledge, there is nothing wrong. But sometimes, devotees of Gaudiya Math have tried to attract the devotees of this village. And then, some devotees have become misguided.
And, because of this, we are a little cautious. So, suppose, there is a kid. He has been kidnapped once.
And the mother tells the kid, don’t talk to any stranger. He looks like a stranger to you. You know, he can be a kidnapper.
He can be a kidnapper. So, the intention of the kid is not to kidnap the kid. the kid will be kidnapped.
No, no. The intention of the kid is not to kidnap the kid. So, statements which are made out of contextual emotion should not be seen as a transcendental teaching.
If an incident is told because of a situation, it is not that it is wrong. It is right in that context. But, if we make it a principle, then it will be wrong.
If someone says, if someone does not do bhakti in ISKCON, then he will not go to Bhagavad Dham. ISKCON’s name is not in the scriptures. So, how can you say that someone will go to Bhagavad Dham It is not like that.
To go to Bhagavad Dham, Krishna Prem has to be awakened. And if someone is being awakened in Bhagavad Dham, then he will go to Bhagavad Dham. So, in every sampradaya, there will be some narrow statements.
Exclusive statements will be there. But, how those sentences are understood is important. If we make them absolute, then they will be subordinate.
But, if they are understood in context, then how will they be understood? Suppose, a sick person has gone to 10 doctors. And, he has come to the 11th doctor. And, the 11th doctor says, ok, you have this disease, take this medicine, you will be fine in a week.
But, this sick person starts saying, I went to that doctor, he said this. And, I went to that doctor, he said that. And, I went to that doctor, he said that.
So, the doctor says, forget what all the other doctors have said. Do what I say, and you will be fine. Now, when the doctor is saying this, when the other doctors say, forget it, it doesn’t mean that all those doctors are wrong.
What I mean to say is, see, exclusive statements are meant for creating focus, not for creating fanaticism. So, there is a difference between focus and fanaticism. So, what is it? If we take the sentences then we become fanatic.
So, it is very important for us to understand the context. So, we are in an organisation so we have to accept some limitations. And, there are some things which we, because we are representatives of the organisation, we are propagating on behalf of the organisation, so we have to say some things which are appropriate for the organisation.
So, that is okay. But, if we say it in context, it won’t create fanaticism. We can’t even neglect the limitations of the organisation.
Because, we are living in a particular institution. So, if we are doing something personally, without taking anything from the institution, then we can say whatever we want. But, if we on behalf of the organisation are saying what is appropriate for the organisation, then we can’t say anything against the organisation.
But, we can contextualise, but that limitation will come everywhere. We can’t work without that limitation. For example, you could say an institution is like a gun.
So, if someone wants to fight, some guns are very heavy. When the war is not going on, carrying that gun is a big burden. But, if there is no gun, there will be a big problem.
So, whatever message we want to convey, the institution is like a gun. So, if there is a position in the institution, an authority comes and shoots with a gun or with a hand. There is a big difference.
So, if we say something in a personal way, it will have an effect. But, it depends on our personal charisma and influence. So, the institution gives us the facility to spread the message of God in different places.
But, it is like a gun. But, there can be two problems One is that carrying a gun is a big burden. Sometimes, we can shoot wrong people with a gun.
So, we have to act There are limits. It can be a burden. Secondly, we can say something wrong in the name of the institution.
We can hurt people. But, that is a necessary event. It is a part of the game.
It is like a necessary mistake. It is a necessary event. I once saw a picture.
It was a seminar on conflict resolution. They were saying that some ancient warriors would fight with an axe. So, both of them were hitting hard.
It was written on the axe Prabhupada said Prabhupada said So, they were fighting with the excuse of Prabhupada. It is possible. The The So, do we need a break or should we continue and complete? Normally, how long do you take? I am okay.
I don’t think I will go to any other topic. We will ask questions and then complete. We can charge it.
It is discharging. It will reach there. Yes, tell me.
So, Some more questions. So, according to this, if we see, which statements of Prabhupada, like some people said that the purpose of Prabhupada is higher priority than what his conversations and lectures are. So, according to this, as you said, what Prabhupada said, people argue on that.
So, perspective, differences of the perspective on the same statement can create an argument. Yes. So, organisational heretic behaviour, how we can understand that, what can be considered an organisational institution? Gossip.
Like you said, all the statements of Prabhupada we don’t have to make Prabhupada a god. We don’t have to make him a god. We don’t have to make him a god.
Or we don’t have to understand all his statements as it is absolutely. Some people may consider it as a heretic behaviour. Ok.
So, we will say that it is going out of the boundary line of some basis. Ok. So, if we say that we don’t have to take all the statements of Prabhupada as absolute, then someone can call it a heretic behaviour.
Prabhupada is our founder Acharya. So, if we take his statements as authority, then how can we do it? How can we run our institution? See, this is a very sensitive topic. That’s why I said that principles are not one line, they are a circle.
And, if someone says that we can start from extreme. If someone says that actually, whether you consider Krishna as god or not, it doesn’t matter. This is our principle.
So, in a way, I am in the Shastric Advisory Council and this is a big topic. It is called hermeneutics. Hermeneutics.
Hermeneutics means the process of understanding a body of knowledge. Biblical hermeneutics means how to understand the Bible. Prabhupada hermeneutics means how to understand Prabhupada’s statements.
Bhagavatam hermeneutics means how to understand Bhagavatam. So, this is a big topic and discussion is going on. And, there is no conclusion yet.
But, broadly, Prabhupada himself gave us these are the essential points of my philosophy. Prabhupada gave us that this is our core principle. But, Prabhupada didn’t tell us.
So, according to him, different people can consider different things as a core principle. This is such a thing that cannot be changed. This is the basic principle.
But, how can we understand that this is the basic principle? In a way, a proposal adopted by UBC is that we can consider Bhaktivinoda Thakur’s Dasyamool Tattva as our core principle. So, in reality, Dasyamool Tattva doesn’t have any contradiction. That is, we are not a body.
We are a soul. We are a part of Jeeva Bhagwan. Shastra is a source of spiritual knowledge.
And, the definition of Shastra is that Bhagavan is Krishna. Krishna is attained through bhakti. He has told us these ten things.
And, in a way, that is the basic teaching of our tradition. And, in a way, we can say that Prabhupada ji was we ourselves have a historically unprecedented record of Prabhupada’s statements which we do not have for the previous Acharyas. It means that we have recorded every statement of Prabhupada ji.
But, we do not have such a record of the previous Acharyas. So, when Bhaktivinoda Thakur talked about his normal statements, no one told him that he does not have such a good record. If we look at Jeeva Goswami, Vishwanatha Thakur, Vishwanatha Thakur was when Aurangzeb had just arrived.
And, Aurangzeb had destroyed all Vrindavan. And, after that, he re-established Vrindavan. But, in his Gita commentary, or Bhagavatam commentary, he did not mention anything about the Muslim rulers.
So, surely, he must have come for a conversation. Because, it was so important at that time. But, there is nothing in these texts.
So, the thing is that the previous Acharyas did not give in their scriptural commentary. The descriptions they used to give in the scriptures, they used to make the principle of the scriptures. That is why they did not do social analysis.
But, Prabhupada ji is the first Acharya who has done social commentary in the scriptural commentary. So, I am telling you these two things. One is that we have recorded all the ordinary conversations of Prabhupada ji.
And, second is that Prabhupada ji himself has also put social commentary in his scriptures. And, it was necessary because Prabhupada ji’s disciples were in such a society which was very different from the traditional society. So, that is why Prabhupada ji had to give social commentary.
Vishwanath Shri Ghatak was the one who used to give knowledge for the scholars whom he had faith in. So, how was it? This is a big issue. Earlier, most of the knowledge, the texts were written only by Brahmins for Brahmins.
Before Gattenberg made the printing press, it was very difficult to print a single text. We see, when Gattenberg had to learn from Shrinath Acharya, he was not able to get Bhagavatam. It is not easy to write So, texts were not easily available.
So, texts were written by one pundit for another pundit. And, most of the knowledge was practical knowledge which was more than oral tradition, written tradition. Oral tradition means, in every village, there was a pundit, a sadhu, and they used to give knowledge and people used to live their lives according to that.
So, because of that, there was a separation of contextual knowledge and written knowledge. When a pundit is writing for a pundit, then that pundit will live according to contextual knowledge. But, when you are talking to someone, or telling a story, you will tell the same story.
So, in front of Prabhupada, it was an extraordinary challenge that he had to give both oral tradition and written tradition through his books. So, that is why, Prabhupada also gave social distillation in his texts. And, that social distillation is according to that time.
So, if Prabhupada says that there is a big struggle between communism and capitalism, and if there is no compromise between the two, then the world will be destroyed. So, there is no communism anywhere. So, Prabhupada gave that context.
So, it is very important Without that, we will tell that we are faithful to Prabhupada, but we will misrepresent him. So, that is why, it is important to understand the context. So, some things can be like this.
Some will say that it is fundamental. Some will say that it is not fundamental. So, we can talk about it.
We can discuss it. Some people can have different opinions. But, this grey zone is not too much.
It is on some topics. And, most of the time, no one will say that Krishna is not God. If someone will say, he will immediately say that it is a division.
But, sometimes, if you want to promote, you should wear a dhoti or kurta. Or, you should wear a shirt and promote. So, what is this? Like Prabhupada says that there are principles and there are details.
So, there can be some debate about the principles and the details. But, overall, we can understand that this is the difference. And, the biggest danger comes when one devotee starts thinking that I know what Prabhupada wanted.
I know what Prabhupada wanted. And, someone was asked about Prabhupada that he criticises a lot. So, you are going to leave ISKCON.
You are criticising ISKCON so much. I don’t need to leave ISKCON. ISKCON has left me.
I am doing what Prabhupada used to say. ISKCON has left what Prabhupada used to say. Now, this is a big ego.
Prabhupada has so many disciples. All of them are wrong and I am right alone. This feeling is not right.
We can say that Prabhupada has also done different things in different situations. So, every devotee, according to his experience, according to his knowledge of Shastra, according to his situation, will do the preaching of Krishna Bhavna according to his situation. And, if you feel that someone is doing wrong, then you can report it to GBC.
You can talk about it. Or, in a way, time will show. Time will show.
If someone is doing something wrong, then, if the person who is doing bhakti, is not going to the root of the tree, is not giving water to the root of the tree, then that leaf will dry up. If the leaf is not drying up, if the leaf is blooming, then if that tree is blooming, then the water is going to the root, even if it doesn’t. So, if someone has a problem, that devotees talk about each other, instead of talking with each other.
People talk about each other, but they don’t talk to each other. He did this, she did that. If it happens like that, then it becomes very annoying.
ISKCON is a very big organisation. It is such a big organisation, that different devotees can do bhakti with their own thoughts. So, some things will be unacceptable, but what is unacceptable? You should not judge a single devotee and say that he is unacceptable.
If you think someone is unacceptable, then at least you don’t do that. You will know who is doing wrong. Everyone will know.
If you think he is very wrong, then report to some authorities and see what they do. So, every religious organisation has this problem. What is right? What is wrong? What is acceptable? What is not acceptable? And, everyone has to find everything.
And, no organisation can escape this. What can we do? What can’t we do? It is called conservative and liberal. Conservatives want to change everything.
Liberals want to change something. So, who is right? We don’t know. It is like a road.
Sometimes it turns to the left, sometimes to the right. So, where is the road ahead? We don’t know. We have to put light here.
We have to ask others. Are you going here or there? Are you going here or there? So, if conservatives and liberals talk to each other, then we can understand what is right and what is not. Okay.
When we meet Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he says, whatever you said is right, but our Acharya Nambo says this, so we will accept it. He is like this. He has three bombs.
So, we will see how many bombs we have to blow. So, okay. First of all, in every tradition, there are some things which you accept as a framework.
So, I went to Cambridge. When I went to Cambridge, I took a tour of Cambridge. The tour guide was there.
He was saying, it is a very nice place. There is a library here. But sometimes bad things happen over here.
Some bad things happen. What bad things happen? Some kids from Oxford come here. Oxford and Cambridge are two prestigious universities.
So, if someone from Oxford comes here, he says, it is a bad thing here. So, in every field, there are such debates. So, if someone is working at Cambridge, if he is in Cambridge, he will have to talk according to Cambridge.
If he goes to Oxford, he will talk according to Oxford. So, if there is any affiliation, there will be some limitation. So, we have to accept it.
But how do we accept it? We have to see that. Now, Bhaktivinoda Thakur says at one place, in Chaitanya Shikshamrut, he says, the description of Lord Krishna is extraordinary. But Bhaktivinoda Thakur says at another place, that we don’t have to prove to the controversial superiority of our tradition over other traditions.
But we should work with all traditions to raise people’s consciousness. He says, there is no need to prove how our tradition is superior to others. He has said at one place, the description of Lord Krishna is extraordinary.
But at another place, he says, there is no need to prove how our tradition is superior to others. So, what does it mean? Deshkalpatra is very important in this. So, sometimes, we have to give in a practical way.
We don’t have to say anything. But in a practical way, it can be different. It’s okay.
So, who will do what, it can be different. It can be different. A difference.
But it’s not necessary that we have to make that into a core issue. Does that answer your question? Sorry, I didn’t understand the last part. You explained it.
I am saying, someone can leave ISKCON or someone can come to ISKCON. Sometimes, not only ISKCON, other parts also can be ISKCON. Depends.
Is this the right path? Is this the right path? How can one say? Look, in this, we can say, suppose there is a very good scholar in and he does a good social analysis. Today’s society is spiritual. So, we can learn from him.
There is no problem in that. But, one is to learn personally. Second is, to promote them.
So, in our tradition, we will promote the teachers of our tradition. But, if we want to learn from someone else, it’s not that we put restrictions on learning. But if we, what happens is, what is it, education, education requires limitation for expansion.
In any education, first of all, there is a limitation. What does it mean? If you are a teacher, you read this book, this book, this is your syllabus. So, if you read this book, you won’t read that book.
Students are not that interested in reading every book. So, when you bring a syllabus, there is a limitation. What happens with that limitation? There is growth, there is expansion.
Later, if they want to move forward in a subject, then they can study different subjects of that subject. Now, someone wants to do a PhD in Indian history. So, you can complete history in one book.
In 7th standard, 8th standard, 7th standard, 8th standard, you can complete a book of 200 pages. And, if you want to do a PhD, then, my friend, Akbar did some experiment. Akbar brought Hindu and Muslim culture together and he tried to bring them together.
So, my devotee, who did his PhD? Akbar tried to create a combined religion. For that combined religion, what was the influence of Gaudiya Vaishnavas? So, that religion didn’t work for 2-3 years. And, he took something from Hinduism and something from Islam.
But, Gaudiya Vaishnavas influenced him. So, you can say, this is a small part of history. So, his PhD is a book of 450 pages.
So, in 450 pages, there is a small part. So, there is limitation initially for expansion eventually. So, that’s why, when someone is getting education, first of all, limitation is necessary.
For example, if you don’t know how to read, you can read Prabhupada’s text. So, that is a kind of syllabus. If you come to this institution, then you follow this syllabus.
Later, when you go for PhD, then you can read different texts. But, if someone is in KG, and he will ask you to read whatever you want, then he won’t be able to learn anything. He will get confused.
So, first of all, limitation is necessary. And, for some years, limitation is very necessary. Read this, read that, read this, read that.
And, not like this, are we making it numerical? No. Actually, every education involves limitation. Any education is a kind of limitation.
If you learn English, means, the time you are spending to learn English, you are not spending that time to learn Tamil, you are not spending that time to learn Bengali, you are not spending that time to learn French. But, if you understand English, then later, if you understand basic principles of language, then you can also learn other languages. So, limitation is necessary.
Without limitation, we can’t learn anything. But, limitations don’t have to make our world view limited. With limitation, we can develop our intellectual capacity.
We can develop the power of thinking. And then, later, we can expand our knowledge. So, first, in our syllabus, we read Prabhupada’s books.
And, according to that, we learn and teach. But, later on, we can also read from different communities. But, we don’t have to confuse the new speakers.
Because, we have to rise up according to the level. So, if you tell the KG students the math of PhD level, they will leave KG. They will say, I don’t like this.
So, tell them the math of PhD level. Tell them the math of PhD level. Does that answer your question? Do you want to add something? I wouldn’t call that as a deviation.
It may not be appropriate in certain situations. Ultimately, we have to remind people of God. If we are not reminding people of God, we have to be careful.
But it doesn’t mean that it is wrong. It’s not principally wrong, it might be contextually inappropriate. But the principle is not wrong there.
We can use everything in God’s service. It is very strange that what we have learnt, I have learnt English, you have learnt Hindi. Who have we learnt this from? We have learnt this from the devotees.
We have learnt this from the devotees. So, it is right to learn from the devotees before coming to bhakti. But it is wrong to learn from the devotees after coming to bhakti.
So, why is it like this? But what is dangerous in this? If we learn something from somewhere else, then there are two things. What is the purpose of our life? And how do we go towards that purpose? How do we go towards that purpose? So, what is the purpose of life? We learn this from Guru Sadhu Shastra. How do we go towards that purpose? We can learn that from Shastra.
We can also learn it from other things. For example, whose kirtan we have to do, we have to learn the kirtan of God from Shastra. But how to do that kirtan? If we have to learn a special instrument, if we have to learn some other tune, then we can learn it from someone else.
There is no problem in that. So, whatever it is, there is a difference between the purpose and the process. Sambandh, Abhidheya, Prayojan are there.
Now, Sambandh and Prayojan never change. But Abhidheya will definitely change. What does it mean to change? Abhidheya means how you are putting your mind on God.
Now, how many of us listen to lectures on our phones or iPods? Who listens to such lectures in Shastra? But we are doing Abhidheya. We are putting our mind on God. But this is not in Shastra.
But what is it? The process of fixing the mind on Krishna may change. The purpose of fixing the mind on Krishna will remain the same. So, what is said that not only we need purpose from Shastra, but we should also get the process.
That will become very limited. If someone has to think in France, there you have to learn French. I said, learn French from Shastra.
How will you learn French from Shastra? There is no French in Shastra. So, in some situations, you have to get knowledge from somewhere else. But our purpose should not change from that.
Will the purpose change? There is no need to fix the mind on Krishna. Let’s do something else. Then the problem will arise.
Yes, sir. Sir, we are doing a lot of preaching these days. So, how to best use social media? How to use social media so that we can bring Krishna to people, but we do not go away from it.
This is always a problem. We see that social media is like the language of people today. It is the language of people’s conversation from today.
And if we do not talk in the language of ordinary people, then there will be very few people who will listen to us. And this has happened repeatedly in history. There was a time, from the 5th century BC to the 5th century AD, Buddhism and Jainism were ruling India.
India was full of Buddhism and Jainism from the 70s to the 80s. In fact, Buddhism and Jainism are atheists in terms of spiritual knowledge. They are atheists in terms of spiritual knowledge.
So, in that time, the classical languages like Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, the languages that came at that time, So, what is it? In that time, in the 5th century BC to 5th century AD, the most classical book written on atheism is Sanskrit. Now we consider Sanskrit as a divine language. But the most ancient language written on atheism is Sanskrit.
So, what happened initially? When Buddhism and Jainism started, then many Brahmins said that this is the language of ordinary people. And these Brahmins said that this is the language of ordinary people. We will not care about this language.
So, this became very famous. Then later it became so famous that some Brahmins also got influenced by it. And then what did they do? In Pali Prakrit, the religion that was propagated, based on that, Sanskrit was also written.
And then they became so influential that they wrote more books than Brahmins wrote in Vedic religion. So, what happens is that if we do not pay attention to the things in popular languages, the things that are in the language of ordinary people, then that religion becomes irrelevant. Now, Vishwa Hindu Parishad was trying to bring all Hindus together.
Many such attempts have been made. But these attempts have not been successful. So, when India became independent, what happened was that there were many sadhus in India.
Then the Indian government made a decision, I think Gulzarilal Nanda was an Indian leader at that time, that whoever is a sadhu related to the tradition, they were given a government certificate, an identity card, that you are an authorised sadhu. So, what happened was that some people accepted it, and the rest of the sadhus said, you are a government sadhu, we are independent sadhus. So, when Vishwa Hindu Parishad was trying to bring all Hindu sadhus together, they gave the front row seats to the traditional sadhus.
And the rest of the popular Hindu leaders, like Satya Sai Baba, Ravi Shankar, Ramdev Baba, they were given the second and third row seats. But what happened is that in today’s society, the traditional gurus, like Madhya Sampradaya, Sri Sampradaya, Sringeri Matha, their influence is not as much as that of the common people. They respect them in a traditional way, but the popular people of the common people are different.
So, why is there a difference? Somebody might be traditionally very respected, but if they are not speaking the language of the common people, they don’t retain that popular following. So, why did this happen? The reason is that we have to speak in the language of the common people. If we don’t speak in the language of the common people, we won’t be able to reach a lot of people.
So, a little regulation is necessary. Because there can be so many distractions on the internet that a person can get stuck in it for a lifetime. So, if we keep a little monitoring or regulation from someone, then if someone is using social media, then who is using it? So, if I am reading something on the internet, then some other devotee might be in the same field.
He can talk to them. I am doing this, this is happening a lot. This is good, learn this.
There is no need to do this. So, if there is someone in that field, if there is a little guidance and regulation from them, then it is good. But if we don’t do it, then we will be left out.
We will be completely stuck outside. And the thing is that these days, through social media, you can attract people for any cause. So, Tamas Sikh, like the Islamic ISIS, why did it spread all over the world? Because it spread through social media.
Social media was very powerful. And a lot of people went from India, people went from Europe. And some people say that terrorists are illiterate, they are poor, they don’t have any path, so they manipulate them.
It is not like that. A lot of people, some people can be poor, but a lot of people are literate, they are intelligent, but they are also manipulated. Their minds can also get polluted.
So, if we are not there, then there must be someone else who is going to attract people. So, in a way, religion is like a business. What does it mean? Whoever does the most marketing, will be successful.
In a way, it is not entirely like that. But in today’s society, if you don’t do marketing, you won’t be very rich. Whoever does marketing, will be rich.
That’s why it is very important for us to be on social media. And in a way, ISKCON is in the, with respect to social media, we are still in the Stone Age. Nowadays, a lot of devotees are uploading their content on the internet.
But very few are making customised content for the internet. So, uploading your content, which is already looking for you, will go there and get in touch with you. But it takes a lot of effort to reach new people.
I was in an interface organisation. In the interface forum, it was said that most of the religions, between 10 to 40% of their entire outreach budget is for online outreach. 10 to 40%.
Very few of us do it. So, we are very behind in that. Let me know when to stop, Pramod.
How will we come to know? Okay, one or two more questions. So, people are very distracted these days. They don’t need as much support as they need.
There is a slight discrepancy in this. Because, in a way, if you look at the internet, I gave a lecture in America, Internet in the Three Modes. Now, the internet, it has Thomastic things, it has Rajasic things, it has Saptic things too.
Nowadays, if we Wikipedia, which is an online encyclopaedia, to make it, volunteers are making it. A devotee involved me, that you too, which is related to Krishna, which is related to Wikipedia articles, edit it properly. So, I said, how much effort does it take? It is not an easy task, to give reference for everyone.
Now, the whole thing is being done by volunteers. So, in this, if my computer is broken, and I go to some Apple company and ask questions, that how did this happen? How many people answer there? So, it is not like, if you have a problem in your house, you go and ask your neighbour. Go to your neighbour and ask, what is the problem? He will tell you his own solution.
You can do this, you can do that. So, the internet, it has Sattva Gunas, Rajasic Gunas, and Tamasic Gunas. But, and Sattva Gunas are also very vast.
If someone wants to acquire knowledge today, then it is so easy to acquire knowledge. Earlier, if you wanted to read something, go to the library, see if there is a book in the library, look for a book. If there is no book, then you tell the librarian, please order a book, when the book will come, then you will read it.
Now, in Google, you can get everything very easily. Of course, you have to search, what is reliable and what is not. But, if someone wants to develop knowledge in Sattva Gunas, then there is so much access, which was not there before.
But, what is a very big difference, that, on the internet, you can go from Sattva Gunas to Tamasic Gunas in a moment. So, if someone is studying something in the library, and then he wants to go to a liquor store, then he has to get up and go from one place to another. And then people will see, what are you doing, don’t go here, why are you going? But here, you can be reading an article on Wikipedia, and change one button, and you can go to YouTube, and see some interesting things, you can do anything.
So, that switch becomes very easy. So, Rajas and Tamas, because, they are more in Jansadharan. Most people are in Jastamas.
So, most of the people on the internet are in Jastamas. But, Sattva is also a lot on the internet. And, to a great extent, to spread the knowledge of Bhakti, we get a lot of facilities from the internet.
So, now, the more outer power we get, the more inner power we need. The more outer power we get, the more inner power we need. What does outer power mean? We can get any information from anywhere in the world.
So, the more outer power we get, the more inner power we need. Like, what choices am I making? So, if, we want to get the knowledge, we can get a lot of knowledge from the internet. It’s not that we can’t do it.
And, there are a lot of online things, some people say that people get distracted from the internet. But, it’s not like that. If you see, people write big articles on the internet, and people read the articles.
We say that people are distracted. But, it’s not like that. Now, if you see some lectures on YouTube, some podcasts, 2-2.5-3 hours long podcasts, and millions of people are watching them, listening to them.
If you see some podcasts, there are about 50,000 comments on one video. And, comments don’t mean that people are abusing each other. It’s a thoughtful comment.
If you see a comment, a person has commented something, and 50,000 people have commented on that comment. And, it’s not like that. Actually, it’s a conversation.
He said this, but she said that. So, there are a lot of thoughtful comments on the internet. It’s not like that.
Yes, it’s not like that. But, the effect of Rajas and Tamas is more. It’s more in us.
That’s why there are more Rajas and Tamas comments on the internet. And, we can easily access them. So, now, every person should get this self-control.
So, for this, broadly, I think, I found three things helpful. Purpose, duration, and deference. I mean, purpose means that I get bored, and I look for something on the internet.
I shouldn’t do that. Then, I’ll get stuck. Purpose means that I should know why I’m going.
Okay, I want to read this article here, or I want to see this website. It should be clear. And, whenever I see the internet, I should take some time.
Okay, I’m going to go for half an hour. I’m going to go for half an hour on social media. And, if I find something new, that I like it, I want to read it.
But, it’s going to take me an hour to watch this video. Okay, not now. Deference.
Deference means to defer. I’ll watch it later. So, what happens is, if I decide later that I’ll watch it tomorrow, whenever I find something new, I’ll watch it now.
But, what happens is, if I want to watch it after a day, I’ll think later, why is it so important to watch this? If it’s important, I’ll watch it. So, basically, let’s do this. Keep your purpose clear.
if, if we get bored and go to the internet, then our life will go to boredom. Because, on the internet, this looks good, this is not so good, this is good, that is good. And, we get stuck a lot.
But, if we go for a clear purpose, how we go, we keep a clear time, for how long I’m going to go. And, sometimes, we get something good, but we don’t have to do it immediately. Keep that rule, that I’m going to do it for half an hour, and if something else comes, then I’ll watch it later.
I’ll watch it tomorrow, I’ll watch it in the evening. So, if you do this, then your recognition is better. Okay, last question.
Yes, some comments on this? Sir, yes. When I came here, I got a CC, which is not understanding. Because, it is only seen in 10-12 years, or it is still in the situation, in the ashram, or outside, or in the house.
But, we are promoting the net. Yes, in the net, we get good things. But, the basic books, the books of our gurus, their lectures, they are left aside.
Yes, yes, what can we do about this? That is, we see whatever is new on the internet, but we don’t read or our Pradhan Acharya’s lectures are not heard. Yes, this is a problem. But, I don’t know, is there a straightforward solution to this? How is it? That, okay, there are three things in this.
Those who read the script, and those who like to read the script. Means, they, take a book, read the book, and get the knowledge. That seems to be for them.
They don’t like social media much. These are one type of people. The second is, there are such people, who don’t read the script at all.
Who don’t read at all. It is like this, nowadays, if you go to colleges or schools, all those books are on their iPads. In America, if you go to a school, some students, they don’t take any bag with them to school.
Okay, all the books are on their iPads. If they bring something, they only bring a notebook. Nowadays, not only a notebook, but also a computer.
So, those people, there are not many people in India, but those people, who don’t read books at all, it is very difficult for them to come into bhakti and get the habit of reading books. So, we should not make bhakti more difficult than it needs to be. So, we should not make bhakti more difficult than it needs to be.
If someone doesn’t have the habit of reading books, and what is this, reading a script, this is not easy. Especially reading a script of Tattvagyan, this is not easy. Most of the people, even in ancient times, as I told you, they used to learn from oral tradition.
Earlier, there were not many scripts. That’s why people didn’t read scripts. But, even if there were scripts, nowadays, if you see in the society, even in the outside world, serious books, political analysis, people are interested in reading the latest political news, but serious analysis, newspaper editor, how many people read it? News, sports, many people read it.
So, the script of Tattvagyan, is a serious script. There are many people, who are in the first category, in the third category, who will not come in the first category. So, those who are not going to read the script anyway, Bhagavad Gita, Jashi Hai Tashi Ghitat, and Jashi Hai Tashi Thevatat.
So, now, it is better that, something or the other, is related to their Christian sentiment. Those who are in social media, and it is difficult for them to come out of it. So, we have to make it available to them.
Now, if someone, after reading a script, only on social media, he did like this, she said like that, it happened here, they get stuck in such discussions, they get stuck in such discussions, that it can never happen. So, someone, who is reading a script, leaves the script and goes here, and keeps looking here and there on social media, that is not good. But, the one who is already living in social media, he has to accept a new, he has to accept devotion, and he has to get used to reading a new script.
So, it is very difficult for him. And most of the people who are in the middle, they read a little script, and they also stay in social media a little. So, what happens is, if, you ask them, is it always like this, that, suppose, someone spends half an hour on social media, and half an hour on reading Prabhupada’s script.
So, if you take out half an hour from their social media, will they really read Prabhupada’s script for half an hour? What happens is, in a way, the mind, has a discipline to read Prabhupada’s script. And that is not possible only with time. So, there is a kind of seriousness, when you are reading a script.
There is a kind of lightness, when you are watching something on social media, or doing something on social media. So, in different ways, we have to make Krishna Bhavna accessible. So, if someone can read Prabhupada’s script, and he stops reading and does something else, then that is not good.
And it is better to say, don’t do this, than to create some facilities. For example, if there is a Bhakti Shastri course, then there is an exam for Bhakti Shastri. So, what happens is, in Kaliyuga, as long as there is no fire under you, we don’t jump.
So, if we tell someone, don’t do this, then that person doesn’t work. If you inspire them to do this, then that person works. If you say, don’t go on social media, then what happens is, nowadays, people say, don’t do this.
As soon as something is forbidden, it becomes fascinating. As soon as you say, don’t do this, the desire to do it increases. So, it is better, we should be a little cautious, we should be cautious.
But, if we provide facilities, so, there is a devotee, what does he do? He uses good social media. What does he say? Everyday, he has made a WhatsApp group, that everyday, you read one chapter of Bhagavad Gita. He has a group of 20-25 devotees.
So, everyday, he tells different devotees, that you find a question on this page. And, that question, he sends it to that WhatsApp group. And, everyone sends the answer to that question to that devotee, who has asked that question.
So, what happens is, through social media, he gets a little inspiration to read Bhagavad Gita. So, what happens is, everyday, I will read a shloka. So, I will read today’s tomorrow, tomorrow’s day after tomorrow.
And, if I read, it happens like this. But, there is a little accountability. In today’s world, it is difficult to read together.
But, we provide some facilities, that, okay, I read at 7 o’clock today. And, I gave the answer at this time. I gave it at 7.30. I gave it at 9. And, someone gives the answer at 11.
So, this way, we get a little inspiration. reading one shloka everyday is not a big deal. But, by doing this, his whole group has come to the 11th chapter.
And, he will complete it. Those who are more interested, they will read more. But, at least we are reading this much.
What? Yeah, I think that’s true. But, how deep we will go, we have to see. Because of social media, what is the case? I feel, sometimes, it’s too simple an explanation.
Because of social media, this is happening. Is social media the cause? Or, is social media the channel? Because of social media, this dissatisfaction is coming. Or, because of social media, we are getting a chance And then, we are getting such thoughts in social media.
But, those thoughts were there before. We cannot, I think, this is getting oversimplified that this is happening because of social media. Social media, it’s a part of it.
But, is it a cause? Or, is it a channel? We don’t know. That’s why, everyone has to see how we can in our devotion. Otherwise, what happens? Sometimes, the truth is complex.
And, sometimes, we have a desire to find a simple solution to a complex problem. The truth is complex. And, its simple solution.
As it is said in English, whoever has a hammer, finds everything like a nail. If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. So, is it happening because of social media? I don’t know.
Because, in many religions, there is a Pew Foundation, which studies religious trends and researches them. So, Pew Foundation says that, Evangelical Christianity, means, Catholics and Protestants, among Protestants, the 50% recruitment in the age of 15 to 40, 50%, that has been done through the internet. The 50% new Christians have been made through the internet.
So, we can also say that, how many Christians left Christianity? Maybe, it can be more than 50%. We don’t know. But, it’s not a one way.
People can come out of it, and people can come inside it. So, we have to see that. There are no simple solutions.
The world is very complex. So, everyone should be careful about social media. But, social media doesn’t benefit much from saying bad things.
Thank you very much. La Prabhupada Ki Jai! Gaur Bhakt Vrinda Ki Jai! Tai Gaur Prema Vrinda Ki Jai!