​Stimulate desired emotions through right setting

​Bhagavatam class on 2.23-17-19 at Govardhan Eco-village, Wada, Mumbai

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna! It is so grateful to be here amongst all of you.
This is the first time I am giving class here in the new temple. Many years ago I had come. At that time, I had taken Bhagavad Gita.
At that time we had the temple above the ashram. So, it is a dramatic transformation that has happened over the years. It is astonishing and inspiring to see how the dedication of all of you has manifested.
Vintage Vrindavan here. It is closely accessible from metropolitan Mumbai. And, today morning, we will be discussing on the theme of the appropriate setting for appropriate actions.
So here, in this particular pastime, the third canto, Devahuti has served Kardam very diligently. Although she was from a very prosperous family, not just a wealthy family, not just a king’s family. Her father was the king of kings.
He was the father of many great kings. So, she was from a phenomenally prosperous family. And she was used to all kinds of luxuries.
And then, when she got married, she got married to a sage who lived in a cottage. No facilities available. No comforts available.
No luxuries available. And no assistance. So, not only had she to take care of her own needs herself, whereas earlier she had made service to do all that.
But, she had to take care of her husband also and serve him. And uncomplainingly, she did it all for many years. And, Kardam, at the time of marriage had told that, you know, I will give her a son and then I will renounce the world.
So, now, Kardam Muni was performing austerities for a long time. And then, at one particular time, he became away. My wife is there.
She has been serving me for so long. So, he was pleased with the service attitude, an obtrusive service attitude. And he said that, I will revolt.
And she said that, you are already a perfected sage. But, at the time of marriage, you had promised me a child. So, please fulfil that promise.
And my body has become initiated. So, please, make the necessary changes so that I am pleasing to you. And please create a house.
Then, Kardam Muni uses his mystic power and he creates a magnificent house over there. So, there are the three modes of material nature. Sattva Guna, Raju Guna and Tamma Guna.
And each mode is conducive for certain kind of actions. Now, the relationship between the setting and the consciousness, it is symbiotic. That means, based on the particular kind of setting that we are in, a particular consciousness is kindled in the heart.
So, if we go to a metropolis and therein we go to a supermarket where there is the consumer’s culture all around, then, at that time, Raju Guna is naturally stimulated within us. Similarly, with respect to if a person goes to a drinking den or some place like that where Tamasic environment is there, Tamma Guna will be stimulated. So, at one level, the setting that is there, it kindles a particular kind of consciousness within us.
At another level, our own consciousness creates a particular setting around us. Now, even people who may be working in Rajasic or Tamasic environments, if they are themselves sattvic, then within that particular environment they will create a setting conducive for themselves. Otherwise, they will not be able to work there.
So, our setting affects our consciousness and our consciousness affects our setting. So, in that sense, the consciousness and the setting are symbiotic. So, here, now when they are to unite and produce a child, they need appropriate setting for that.
When the setting is very sattvic and they have been in sattvic setting for a very long time, their own consciousness also becomes very sattvic. So, at that time, the necessary excitement for union and procreation, that will not be there. So, therefore, appropriate setting is needed for that.
Now, we use the word shringar for shringar darshan, when there is decoration of the lord, when we use darshan in the morning. Now, the word shringar traditionally in Sanskrit refers to decoration in general and decoration especially for the sake of romantic attraction. Now, in the spiritual sense, the romantic attraction is in the divine couple.
But shringar is a generic term which indicates that there are appropriate things that are required for particular settings. And when those things are created, then the emotion which is required at that particular time comes out appropriately. And this majestic opulence which is being depicted over here, this is even more than what Devahuti had enjoyed when she was a princess.
So, in that opulent setting where the material, the setting is conducive for the excitement of passion, then they will unite and they will begin a child. So, that will be described in future verses. So, now, the two important things to understand here is that this principle of the appropriate setting for the appropriate situation, that is for the action of the appropriate emotion, that is what the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition uses in the concept of rasa.
The word rasa is one of the most common words in Gaudiya Vaishnava theology and it is a unique contribution of Gaudiya Vaishnava theology to Vaishnavism at large. Probably before we were introduced to Krishna Consciousness, we had probably heard the word rasa in aam ras or ganna ras, you know, mango juice or sugarcane juice, rasa we consider as juice. Now, in English also the word juice is used not just in the sense of the sap of fruit.
Now, if a mobile has a lot of charge, instead there is a lot of juice, the juice has run out. So, basically juice, the word is used in the sense generically to refer to energy or that which powers something. So, now, the rasa is a concept that the Gaudiya Vaishnava theology draws from Natya Shastra.
The Vedic tradition is not monolithic. Bhakti was one part of the Vedic tradition. But there is Natya, there is Kavya, all these were elaborately developed traditions.
So, the Natya Shastra was originally written by a sage called Bharat Muli and he depicted how the Devatas once went to Brahmaji and they said we want an uplifting form of entertainment. And at that time, Brahmaji narrated Natya Shastra. Now, how Natya Shastra? Now, we normally do dramas, we just have certain costumes and some people recite some dialogues and that’s what we call drama.
But Natya Shastra was an elaborately developed theoretical system. In English, it is called as dramaturgy. The way dramas are to be performed, dramaturgy.
So, Vedic dramaturgy as described in Natya Shastra, it itself became a huge tradition. And in drama theory, there are three fundamental things. Now, Bhaktira Samudra Sundu adopts these things.
First, I’ll explain the original things, then I’ll explain how Bhaktira Samudra Sundu has adopted that and how that principle applies in today’s world. So, there is karya, there is karana and there is sahakari. Karya is the action.
Karana is the stimulus. Sahakari is the assistant. So, karya means, let’s take an example from Krishna Leela.
Krishna is coming back home from the forest at night. When he is coming back, Mother Yashoda sees him coming. So, whenever we take this to a dramatic setting.
In a drama, the whole purpose is not just to do some actions or speak some dialogues. The purpose is to evoke certain emotions in the audience. And the emotions that are evoked in the audience depends on the refinement of the audience.
If a woman is performing Bharat Natya and she is depicting some, say Krishna’s pastimes. Now, if a man, if the audience, whether they are men or women, if they are rasik, they understand Krishna Leela, they understand what is being depicted. Then the rasik audience can see, okay, how the hands are being moved, how the facial expressions are coming.
Then what is being depicted, that can be understood. If the audience is not rasik, then all that a man sees is a woman and a man becomes lusty. So, the basic principle in art shastra is that for rasa to be evoked, the audience has to be rasik.
The audience also has to be evolved in a particular way. Otherwise, the appropriate emotion cannot be evoked. So, the Bhagavatam tells us, become a rasik.
So, Bhagavatam is rasalaya. But to relish the rasa of Bhagavatam, one has to evolve one’s consciousness. One has to become rasika.
So, for example, the 10th canto describes Krishna Leela. Now, this Krishna Leela, some of it is quite esoteric. By Krishna, especially in 29 and 33rd chapter of the Gopi Gita and other chapters related to the Ras Panchadhyay, they are quite esoteric.
So, if the audience is not rasik, all that will be evoked in them will be just mundane lust. But if they are rasik, then the highest emotions of bhakti can be evoked by seeing how Krishna is reciprocating intimate love with his topmost devotees. So, bhura ho rasika bhuvi bhaav ka.
Become a rasika. That’s what the Bhagavatam is telling. So, this idea is there in Nathi Shastra that in any drama that is done, for the audience to experience the appropriate emotion, the drama team has to do various things.
But at the same time, the audience also has to be appropriately qualified. So, say, in today’s setting, if we take, now if we consider Kashmir as a disputed territory between India and Pakistan. Now, if we consider the narrative about Kashmir in India and consider the narrative about Kashmir in Pakistan, it’s completely different.
You know, if you go to Pakistan and read the Pakistani history books, they don’t say that Pakistan was created in 1947. They say Pakistan was created in the 12th century. And, what is called as India was at a part of Pakistan.
But it has been taken away from us. Now we have to get it back. So, that is their spin on history.
So, now, if an Indian drama of how an Indian soldier fought very heroically and resisted Pakistani aggressors, now that is played in India, Indians have the appropriate emotion to appreciate that. Now, if that is played in Pakistan, Pakistan is in throw brick bags over there. Why? Because the audience doesn’t have the emotional setting to appreciate what is being depicted.
So, the point is, the audience has to be rasik. Now, here I am taking simply an example of nationalism. But the point is, for every particular kind of drama, the appropriate emotions are needed.
So, similarly here, Devahuti, she and her kardama are to unite and an appropriate setting is needed for that. So, kardamani creates that setting. And now in the, in the, I was talking about kare karan se hukari.
So, for example, if any particular nationalistic drama is to be depicted, at that time, there are the stimuli which evoke particular emotions. And the stimuli can be conscious or unconscious. The unconscious stimuli are called as uddipan.
The conscious stimuli are called as alamban. So, uddipan means those things which stimulate appropriate emotions. So, for example, if it’s a patriotic drama that is to be done, then, maybe we have the tricolour of India, the tricolour flag of India, or we have the national anthem going on in the background.
Then all these are the insentient things which stimulate the appropriate emotions. And then, there may be people over there. So, the living people who are there, they are called as alamban.
So, for example, if there is a leader who is considered very patriotic, maybe there is Mahatma Gandhi or whoever, who is considered an iconic figure in the nation’s history, and seeing whom, people feel patriotic emotions evoke. So, for the evoking of appropriate emotions, there is uddipan and there is alamban. Uddipan is the insentient objects that tend to the emotion.
Alamban is the conscious people who also evoke that emotion. And then, there is all this is a part of the karana. Karana is the cause or the stimulus.
Stimulus can be conscious or subconscious. And then, there is karya. Karya is action.
So, for example, there is a soldier fighting. So, one soldier is fighting against many many aggressors and he is fighting and even though he is wounded, he is fighting on and on and on. So, that karya evokes a further emotion.
So, there is, for a drama to evoke the right emotions, there is the karana and the karya. And along with, there may be sahakari. Sahakari is assistance.
Assistance can be things or assistance can be people. So, for example, in a drama, at the appropriate time, there is a right music that comes up. The music also evokes the emotion.
So, there is karya, karana and sahakari. Now, in the karya, there can be conscious actions and there can be subconscious actions. So, for example, when say Krishna comes back from the forest in the evening, at that time, when mother Yashoda sees him, now, she sees Krishna and now Krishna is at that time quite small, mother Yashoda is quite tall.
So, Krishna is running to her embrace. So, Yashoda comes down on her knees. One knee she comes down and she opens her arms.
And she opens her arms like this. Now, this is a consciously done action. But along with that, tears may start coming from her eyes, her breasts may swell with milk.
This is not what she is consciously doing. So, the actions that stimulate the emotions, they can be conscious or they can be subconscious. But they are all appropriate and necessary for stimulating the right emotions.
So, all this is of course an elaborate subject and I have a particular purpose. So, I am not going to the technicalities of Nartya Shastra. The point is what did Rupa Goswami do in Bhakti Prasamit Sindhu? He took the theory of Nartya Shastra and he adopted it for the process of bhakti.
So, he said that just as in a drama, by having the appropriate stimuli, by creating the appropriate setting, we can evoke the appropriate emotion. Say, patriotism can be evoked by creating the appropriate setting, by having the appropriate kare, karana, sahakara. Similarly, Rupa Goswami, based on Chetan Mahaprabhu’s instructions, postulated that bhakti can be evoked by having the appropriate kare, karana and sahakara.
So, the whole Bhakti Prasamit Sindhu, Bhakti Prasamit Sindhu’s first book and other book is next book which takes this theme of Bhakti Prasamit Sindhu further, Ujjwala Nilamayi. So, both these books focus on this point that how the sadhaka can surround themselves with appropriate kare, karana and sahakara, especially appropriate karana, appropriate stimuli and when those appropriate stimuli are present, then the appropriate bhava, the rasa will be evoked. So, if we see, Bhakti Prasamit Sindhu has 64 items of devotional service.
Now, if we consider this list, it is not necessarily an exhaustive list. There can be other items of devotional service also. But the point is, it’s not that the items of devotional service stop at 64.
But these 64 are what Rupa Goswami lists as ways in which devotional emotion can be stimulated in the heart. So, for example, taking Charana Amrit, offering flower to the lord or studying Bhagavatam or whatever, each of these, they can stimulate emotion and then he gives pramanas explaining how that emotion can be stimulated. And in this way, he enables the, he provides the process by which bhakti can be evoked.
The process of bhakti has to be, there is a process and bhakti has to be evoked in the heart. So, he gives, he makes it a systematic process. Actually, Prabhupada, in prayers of Kulputi, in his lecture which he gave on that, he says how the materialistic people come to take darshan of the lord.
The atmosphere in the temple and the lord should be decorated in such a way that the agitated emotions of people, they can be pacified. And their emotions can be channelled spiritually. So, the whole process of bhakti is a very distinct process.
In the sense that normally, there are emotions which entangle us in material world. And then, there are the processes of jnana and dhyana, yoga. So, if you see yoga, ashram yoga, the definitions of yoga as given in Patanjali Jiva Sutra is yogas chittavrtti nirodhah.
Chittavrtti, the moment of consciousness, nirodhah, stopping that. That is yoga. So, the idea is, in yoga, perfection comes by the cessation of emotions.
Stop emotions. That is one way of progressing on the spiritual path. Bhakti says that rather than stopping emotions, channel emotions.
So, when we channel emotions, then what happens is emotions are already a very powerful force. And this powerful force cannot be, it’s very difficult to stop it. Now, if you say a car is moving very fast in a particular direction.
The car has got a strong momentum at that time. And to completely stop the car is very difficult. But if we just have appropriate steering wheel by which we change the direction of the car, then all that momentum that is there, that can be channelled to go in the right direction.
So, bhakti yoga acts like the steering wheel for the momentum of emotion. Bhakti yoga is a process by which our emotions currently direct us very strongly towards sense objects. And towards worldly things in general.
So, bhakti yoga is a process by which the emotions are channelled. And by the channelling of emotions, then the same force can be utilised to move closer towards Krishna. And in that way, spiritual programmes become more easier and less unnatural.
Less unnatural why? At one level, we have a natural attraction towards worldly objects. That has to be conditioned. That has to be curtailed.
That has to be regulated. So, in that sense, that is unnatural for the body. But it is not unnatural for the stool.
See, for the body also, it is not that complete unregulation is natural. For the body has a need to eat. So, eating is natural for the body.
But, we humans, when we obsess over things, people often eat more than necessary. And then, they often create problems. There is an old Egyptian saying which is there engraved on one of the pyramids.
So, it said that one third of what you eat maintains you. The remaining two third maintains your physician. So, this is a problem from a long, long time that people overeat.
And by overeating, that creates problems for them. And then, they have to deal with the problem. So, when we say the body has a natural need to eat, but the quantity that we eat, the content of what we eat, that is not something which we just have to succumb to our impulses.
We have to use our intelligence to choose that. So, bhakti, what it does is, eating is natural for us at the level of the body. Emotions are natural for other souls.
Although, currently our emotions are materially conditioned, but emotions themselves are natural. And when we can spiritualise those emotions, then the process of bhakti becomes much easier and sweeter to practise. The process of spiritual growth in general becomes easier and sweeter to practise.
Because the power of emotions, we do not have to counter it. We have to counter it to some extent when the emotions are involved in material things. But there is a space for the direction of emotions, for the expression of emotions.
So, now, if we consider, Prabhupada wanted to create new Vrindavan in America. Now, what was the purpose? At that time, the Americans, whether they would immediately come to Vrindavan if they became introduced to Krishna Bhakti? Well, that is not so likely. So, create a replica in America of a place with similar spiritual stimuli as there are in Vrindavan.
And so, bhakti, there is a process of analysis, there is a process of philosophical education, there is a process of systematic understanding of the principles. All that is important, but all that is meant for us to be convinced enough to focus on Krishna and experience spiritual emotions in relationship with Krishna. So, what Prabhupada wanted, or he has books which give the philosophy, but then he wanted places where that spiritual emotions could be invoked among people by the provision of appropriate stimuli.
So, that’s what Srila Prabhupada wanted in New Vrindavan. There, he wanted all the temples to be there and he wanted the setting to be such that even people in the West who would come there, they could experience spiritual emotions. And something similar is being attempted now.
Here in Jeev, we buy the blessings of Srila Prabhupada and his followers. The idea of creating various temples of Vrindavan over here, it is not just to replicate Vrindavan. Vrindavan is ultimately the spiritual world.
It manifests in the world and no other place can actually be Vrindavan. But by replicating the stimuli that are there in Vrindavan, a similar emotion can be evoked. See, watching a drama of Krishna Leela is not the same, cannot substitute for actual going to the spiritual world and observing Krishna Leela directly.
But when one is not able to do that, watching the drama also evokes emotions. Similarly, having a replica of Vrindavan can help in evoking some emotions along the way. And the Uddhipan, the Uddhipan that is there, that Uddhipan is a spiritual stimuli.
So, that helps in invoking emotion and thereby helping people get a taste of one. Now, this is, there are two levels. It’s an organisational level.
The whole process of, it’s not just we want to build big temples. It’s not just that we want to have magnificent architecture. The point of it all is, it should all be done in a way that evokes devotional emotion.
It creates an appropriate setting by which devotional emotion can be evoked. Now, there’s no setting can force an emotion in one. People can come to a very spiritual place and there they may have sensual emotions.
That’s what has happened to a large extent in Vrindavan where materialistic people are there and they don’t really express any spiritual emotions over there. So, the setting does not guarantee the emotion. But the setting assists those who want the emotion.
It’s possible to remember Krishna in anywhere. Now, one can be at a busy airport, one can be in a supermarket, one can be in a one can be in a car going through a crowded city. At all these places, one can remember Krishna.
But when the setting is favourable, the effort required to remember Krishna is less. When the setting is unfavourable, the effort required to remember Krishna is much more. So, we as devotees living in this material world, often we may have to be in settings which are not favourable for remembering Krishna.
And that time we can’t say the setting was like that so I will do whatever the setting induces me to do. No, we have to have our willpower, our determination and try to remember Krishna even in that setting. But we also need a setting that is conducive.
It’s like if there is a cricket match and there is a match on the home ground and match on foreign ground. When the match is on foreign ground, the cricketers still have to play over there. They can’t say because it’s a foreign ground so we can’t play and we will lose the match.
There also they have to play and then they have to put in greater effort. But if the match is on home ground, then they are all familiar with the setting and it’s relatively easier for them to play and chances of their winning are greater. So, like that we as sadhakas, individually, sometimes we will be on home territory where all the devotional stimuli are much more.
And sometimes we will be on foreign territory where the devotional stimuli are not there. So, our purpose has to be always to serve Krishna. Wherever, just as a cricket team, it has a purpose always to perform and win, wherever they are.
But, just as being on foreign territory does not necessitate defeat, similarly, it is not necessary that when we are on foreign territory, we will not surely be defeated. Nor is it that when we are on home territory, automatically victory is guaranteed. Even on home territory, if a cricket team does not perform, then they can be defeated by the visiting team.
So, like that, even when we are in temple setting, at that time also maya can attack us and can knock us down. But, the setting is conducive. In home territory, the likelihood of winning is more.
So, similarly, for us, when we have conducive devotional stimuli, then for us to remember Krishna becomes easier. So, at an organisational level, the organisation tries to create as many devotional stimuli as possible, as many uddipanas possible for people, both members as well as visitors to assist them in the remembrance of Krishna. But, at an individual level, it is our responsibility.
It is our responsibility to find out how we can remember Krishna. In the Bhakti Bible that is going on for the Brahmacharya, we are discussing Ajamil’s pastime. So, Ajamil, he had gone out on the instruction of his father to get firewood.
At that time, he saw the sensually agitating scene. And then he got agitated. So, he said, I was following instruction.
Still, why did I get into temptation? Why did I fall down? See, following instruction is no licence for neglecting caution. Even if I am going for distribution, I am going in a car, if I go on the wrong side of the road, then I will meet with an accident. Just because I am following an instruction, a particular instruction, does not mean that the basic common sense, basic caution is not to be followed.
So, even on home territory, we have to be careful. So, there is the Uddhipan that are provided. Within whatever Uddhipan there are in Bhakti, each of us can take individual responsibility to find out what Uddhipan stimulates spiritual emotions within us.
So, for example, we may find that reciting Vaishnava songs may evoke devotional emotions within us. Or someone else may find that reciting verses from the Mahabharata, they may evoke devotional emotions within us. Or someone else may find that taking darshan of the deities or may be taking darshan of particular deities dressed in particular ways, that is what evokes devotional emotions within us.
So, we have to find out what is the Uddhipan for us. And then we try to make that Uddhipan more and more readily accessible for ourselves. So, now if we find that reciting Vaishnava songs helps us in remembering Krishna, helps us in channelling our emotions towards Krishna, then we can remember the Vaishnava songs.
And the point is to evoke our emotions towards Krishna. So, it’s not necessary we have to remember the full Vaishnava songs. If we find that a particular line is what stimulates spiritual emotions in us, then we can remember that line and recite that line.
The point is to evoke spiritual emotions. And when we take this responsibility to find out what is the Uddhipan that evokes spiritual emotions within us and then try to expose our consciousness more and more to that, then what is happening is there is a battle that is going on but we take individual responsibility for fighting our battle. Nobody else can purify our heart for us.
We have to purify our heart. Now, following the spiritual master’s instruction is not a substitute for taking individual responsibility for our spiritual protection. So, we have to find out what protects us, what helps us grow and we expose ourselves more and more to that stimulus.
And that way, we will find that the practise of bhakti will become less demanding because we will have things which will channel our spiritual emotions and will help us to tap the power of our spiritual emotions in moving towards Krishna. And thus, we can progress more easily with less difficulty. So, I conclude with one point.
Prabhupada would say, chant Hare Krishna and be happy. So, now we have to understand is this one instruction or are these two instructions? Is it that we will chant Hare Krishna and automatically become happy or is it they say chanting Hare Krishna is an instruction be happy is also instruction? So, it is both. It is a parallel as well as a causal instruction.
If we chant Hare Krishna, chanting Hare Krishna represents practising the process of bhakti then if we chant Hare Krishna we will become purified and evam prasanna manaso sitam sattve prasidhati the Bhagavatam described in the second chapter how by the process of bhakti we will become purified and we will become cheerful. But that will take time. So, by chanting Hare Krishna by practising the process of bhakti yoga eventually we will become happy when we are purified.
When the rajo and tamo guna stop pulling us when we come to sattva guna then we will become cheerful we will become joyful. But that is going to take time. So, in that process we need to cultivate happiness.
Chant Hare Krishna, it is not that chanting Hare Krishna will automatically make us happy. But even chanting Hare Krishna doesn’t make us automatically happy. Still, we cultivate happiness as emotion.
And we find out what are the things that help us give you that emotion of happiness. It is like a patient is sick they are not, if they are taking the right treatment, they will not be cured right now. But just the fact that they are having the right treatment, they can be satisfied with that.
So, eventually taking the treatment will make them healthy and happy. But even when they are taking the treatment and at that time they are undergoing some effects of the treatment or some problems because of the disease still they can be happy that at least I am taking the treatment and I am on the path to get cured. So, similarly, as sadhakas we need to find out what are the things that can keep us happy while practising bhakti.
And it is not that we give up the spiritual master’s instructions or give up our service just to find out and do all the things that make us happy. But within the process of bhakti whatever is possible for us whatever stimuli evokes spiritual emotion within us, if we expose ourselves to them then we will experience some satisfaction at our stage in the practise of bhakti also. And thus we can move onwards in our bhakti cheerfully.
I will summarise. I started by talking about how every setting every action requires the appropriate setting. And here the appropriate setting is created for devahuti and kardam to unite.
So, that they can beget a child. So, this idea of setting creates, setting kindling emotion that is the essence of dramaturgy. I talked about Bharatnatya Shastra.
And then I talked about how within that there is a rasika audience that is required. A qualified audience, example of Bharatnatya and of patriotism, India, Pakistan, Kashmir. And then there is after the audience is appropriate then there is karya, karana, samkara.
The appropriate actions need to be done. The appropriate setting has to be there. Setting can be either things or people.
Things are called as uddhipan. People are called as alamban. And then there are the sahakari, whatever else is in the appropriate emotions.
So, in the process of in drama, by having all these, the audience can experience the right emotions. Rupa Goswami took that principle and adapted it for the process of bhakti. He said, by creating the appropriate setting, by exposing ourselves to the appropriate stimuli, bhakti emotion can also be evoked.
And that’s why there are all the items of devotional service to which we are recommended to expose our consciousness periodically. So, now, in the process of preaching, we are not just meant to share spiritual knowledge. We are also meant to provide people spiritual stimuli by which spiritual emotion can be evoked within their heart.
So, the temples in general are meant to have a setting which will evoke spiritual emotion in the audience, especially the taking of the darshan. The lodge will be decorated nicely. And similarly, as I provided Vrindavan, new Vrindavan, to provide a, to help people get some sense of spiritual emotion that they could get by going to Vrindavan.
And similarly, what is being replicated here also is, just for the same purpose. So, organisationally, the, it’s the provision of as many uddhipan as possible for evoking spiritual emotion. That is the organisation’s responsibility.
But individually, we may sometimes be on home territory, where we have favourable spiritual stimuli. Sometimes we may be on foreign territory, where we may have unspeakable stimuli around us. But we have to fight our battles.
It’s like a team has to try its best to win wherever they are. So, but while we have to do our service wherever we are required to, whether in foreign territory or home territory, but we can try to find out within whatever uddhipan are there, what is it that stimulates spiritual emotion within us. And if we try to replicate those uddhipans around us, keep them readily accessible, then we will be able to have the power of emotion assisting us in our process of bhakti.
And thus, we can chant Hare Krishna, that means we can practise the process of bhakti yoga and be happy. Happiness will not just be the result, but happiness can also be a parallel emotion that we cultivate and thus we move onwards in our practise of bhakti, as joyfully as is possible. Thank you very much.
Are there any questions or comments? Yes, sir. As you are explaining that only uddhipan is not sufficient, our effort is actually the primary factor. I was just thinking how regarding coaching or training children that one of you have mentioned, I was thinking that how one becomes devotees, basically he takes the initiative, in a kind of he is looking for or some desire is left from him, then he consciously thinks that.
And then, of course he comes to know about Krishna to be devotees or Bhagavatam, but the initiative or the effort is from his side and then there are you know, stimulus or even say help coming from him. And then gradually he becomes a devotee. In case of children, they don’t I mean, I don’t know, they can take initiative, but they are not at that maturity to take that initiative.
We are just giving them uddhipan from different sides. They are sitting there and taking Krishna’s activities or telling them about Krishna. That is there.
But then there is the effort part from children’s side. So, how? So, when trying to bring children to Krishna consciousness, we may provide them some stimuli, but children may not have the intelligence or the intention to practise bhakti. So, without that, how can they come to bhakti? Yeah.
Ultimately, it is the decision of every soul, whether they want to serve Krishna or not. And that is the decision which usually people take, children take when they grow up. Maybe they come to the teams or they go into adolescence or just come to youth.
At the time they may, before that, they are to some extent their life is monitored and vastly guided by their parents. So, now the parents and devotees, their responsibility is to provide as many stimuli for the children as possible. So, in general, we can only do three things for other people, anyone who we are trying to train or guide.
We can provide knowledge, we can create facilities, and we can set example. Knowledge, facilities, example. These are three basic things we can do for others.
After doing these, then it’s up to people whether they want to take it up or not. So, whether it is say devotee children and devotee parents trying to do the stimuli or whether we are going to schools and children are not devotees, parents also not devotees, but they are trying to do some stimuli. We can see how we can do these things.
And if we have done these things, we have done our part. And we needn’t have a very narrow definition of preaching. Now, if we think of preaching only in terms of making people into maybe sixteenth-rounder devotees who follow four year principles and come for morning programme or come for this or that, whatever, that is a very narrow definition.
That is definitely a definition of serious devotee. But rather than seeing the preaching as, you know, there is one cut-off point. Those who are brought inside the cut-off point, they are devotees.
Those who are outside the cut-off point, they are non-devotees. Rather than seeing it like that, we can see the sharing of Krishna consciousness as expansions of concentric circles, of increasing radiance. So, for example, if some people, some people will become very serious devotees, but some people even if they become favourable to the practise of bhakti, whereas earlier they would have been neutral or unfavourable, that is also one level of preaching.
So, Ravindra Saruprabhu has written an essay of how congregation preaching developed in our movement’s history. Now, congregation preaching is going everywhere to organisation’s house for programme. That’s such a standard thing that what is there to think about.
But initially when the movement started, the idea of becoming a devotee in America was that you join the temple. You become a devotee means you move inside the temple. Even if somebody is married, they move inside the temple and that is, you are a devotee.
So, what they observed was that many of the hippies or people who were spiritual seekers in the western world, they became Srila Prabhupada’s very dedicated followers. But when the Indians started coming to America, most of the Indians had gone to America for material prosperity and they had no intention of joining the temple. But still, they wanted to have something to practise their culture.
So, initially the devotees who were preaching, they tried to preach to the Indians to join the temple and the Indians were not at all interested. And they thought that the Indians are not going to become devotees. So, they started neglecting them.
But then, they found that although they were paying no attention to these Indians, every Sunday, they would keep coming. Keep coming, keep coming, keep coming. And they were regular.
Initially, when our movement was having a lot of money through book distribution, we were not so worried about money. But afterwards, the Indians were one of the main patrons for the movement. So, at this point, if the temple devotees had been asked, are these Indians Hare Krishnas? They said, no.
They are not Hare Krishnas. They don’t stay in the temple. But if the Indians had been asked, which religious group do you identify with? They would say, Hare Krishna.
So, that means, we don’t consider them to be devotees, but they consider them just pure devotees. Not necessarily our definition. But over a period of time, what happened is, these are our people.
They keep coming. They keep contributing. They keep serving.
So, they may not conform to a particular definition of bhakti, of moving into the temple. But they are practising bhakti in their own way. And they are committed at their level of practise.
So, that was the idea that people can stay at their homes and they will practise bhakti. And we should provide facilities to enable them to practise bhakti at their home. That means, conduct programmes at their houses.
Or close to their houses. So, that’s how actually congregation preaching started. Before that, the idea was, if you are living in the temple, you are a devotee.
If you are living outside the temple, you have gone to maya. That’s a simple definition. The transcendental was reduced to the geographic.
So, that, we shouldn’t have that conception of bhakti that only if a person is a 16th rounder devotee, then that person, our preaching is successful. Preaching can happen at various levels. And, if we can help people to become more receptive towards Krishna, more favourable towards Krishna, even if they don’t become devotees immediately, when they become favourable, that is also one level of preaching.
See, when we have that agenda of conversion, we use conversion normally for Christians who convert Indians, but, you know, often we also have that you should become an insider. When we have that agenda of conversion, then we often have a adversarial attitude with the world. The world is bad, and devotees are good, and they have to come from the bad material world in the devotee community.
But, we understand that this is a very narrow vision. In the world, there is sattva guna, there is vajra guna, there is tamoguna. And sattvic people may not become devotees, but in many ways, they may be favourable to the practise of bhakti.
They may provide facilities for us. So, if unnecessary, we antagonise them. Anybody who is not a devotee is a demon.
And there are people in sattva guna who may be more sattvic than what we are. Isn’t it? We cannot call them demons. So, the thing is that we have to have these our philosophy itself has these colours, shades of grey.
So, when we talk about providing uddhipan, so children when they are provided samskaras in their childhood, they may not necessarily intend to take up bhakti or they may not take up bhakti at that time. But the samskaras will stay with them. And eventually, that will at least keep them favourable to bhakti.
In some cases, later on when they experience the reality of material world, they see how all the much glamorised pleasures, there is not really much in that, then they will come to Krishna at that time. So, what we can do is, provide them positive impressions, positive samskaras and then it’s up to them to choose. And we shouldn’t worry about whether they are going to choose or not.
We should focus on whether we are giving the best possible stimuli to them or not. Now, best possible stimuli doesn’t necessarily mean the most forceful stimuli. You know, because forceful can sometimes be illiterate.
Best means that people feel, yes, this makes sense. This bhakti makes sense. His devotees are nice people.
I would like to be with them. I would like to be doing this. So, George Harrison in his book, Chant Hare Krishna, happened as an interview.
So, George Harrison, initially, he, you know, after he started practising, met Prabhupada, he started practising bhakti and he started making all his songs that he was composing were spiritual songs. But then, so at one time he was in Madison Avenue and he was expected to do a musical performance and then he started telling the audience, Chant Hare Krishna. And the audience started booing him and jeering him.
And, you know, all the critics started panning him and his whole popularity started catapulting down. And then at that time, you know, to understand what it would be like, say, there is a very important India-Pakistan match, say, the top cricketer in the world, say, Virat Kohli becomes a devotee. And then, there is a very important India-Pakistan cricket match, say, World Cup Final.
And Virat Kohli just gets out to zero and then after that India loses the match and then after that there is a press conference and Virat Kohli at that time says, you know, cricket is all temporary, it’s maya, just Chant Hare Krishna. You know, we cannot imagine the amount of anti-preaching that will happen by that. You know, if a person is paid to be a cricketer, that person has to take cricket seriously.
So, that’s what happened. And George Harrison, instead of, you know, providing people the entertainment that they were expecting, he started preaching over there. And then he met Srila Prabhupada and then he told, Prabhupada, you told me to make songs about Krishna and I’m doing that, but I’m feeling that for every one person I’m getting to Krishna, I’m sending 10 people away from Krishna.
So, what should I do? So, Prabhupada told him, no, use your intelligence. Use your intelligence and conduct yourself in such a way that people will be attracted towards Krishna. So, after that, you know, he stopped making all songs devotional.
He started making the other kind of songs which he was doing. And within that, maybe one song he would make devotional or in some other songs he would bring in something devotional. So, he started doing it a little bit more toned down.
And then he said that, so, people started thinking that, you know, for him the Hare Krishna was a phase in his life. He was involved with the Hare Krishnas, but now what, he’s not involved. So, in that book he writes, I was a plainclothes devotee.
Plainclothes devotee means I never wash dhoti, kurta, but in plainclothes he has a devotional intention. So, he said that, if I have to be counted at the end of my life, whether I want to be counted among the materialistic people or I want to be counted among devotees, I want to be counted among the devotees. That’s what is the values that I aspire about.
So, people who get the impressions, even if they are not able to externally act on them immediately, the values remain. If we have presented it properly, non-fanatically. So, we don’t have to worry too much about whether people take up things or not.
We focus on whether we are presenting things properly or not and people will take up in their due course of time. You see, even with Prabhupada, the potent pure devotee, Mahabhagav, still for 40 years in India people didn’t take up. So, is that a failure of Prabhupada? No.
It is a part of Krishna’s plan and the very example, in fact, the Prabhupada himself in India was not successful, externally speaking. It indicates that we shouldn’t define success only in terms of, we shouldn’t make preaching success as a statement about preacher’s purity. Now, if somebody wanted to say Prabhupada was not successful in all these years, then Prabhupada was not a pure devotee.
Somebody could say like that. No, but after 10 years he got so much success afterwards. So, we should focus simply on doing our own efforts.
And some preachers will be successful at some times, some preachers will be successful at other times. So, we don’t have to bother too much about it. We focus on trying to provide people Krishna in as accessible and appealing a way as possible and it’s up to people to take it up according to their time.
Did I answer your question? Thank you very much. Sri Prabhupada ki, Tantra Krishnamad Bhagavatam ki, Taiga Urupe Manandam. Yes.
Knowledge we have, can we knowledge our vicinity and self-awareness? Self-awareness with the silence of our mind where we propose that we want to identify with Krishna conscious thoughts and feelings means contact. Okay, good question. Yes.
Okay. So, we are told don’t identify with your thoughts or feelings, but then in bhakti we are told to identify with our devotional thoughts and feelings. So, isn’t that also a kind of illusion or unnatural? See, when we are told to identify, there is different ways of identification.
Identification could mean I think I am that or I think that I want to be connected with that. So, for example, I may say that I am an Indian. So, I am identifying with being an Indian.
But suppose there is a war going on between Russia and Ukraine. And we may say, okay, Russia is trying to impose their territory on Ukraine and take away Ukraine. So, Ukraine is right and Russia is wrong.
So, we may identify with in the sense of support Ukraine. But we are not thinking I am a Ukrainian or I am Ukraine. So, like that, firstly, we have to distance ourselves from the material emotions and material thoughts and desires.
And when it comes to spiritual, when we say we identify, that is not identifying in the sense of thinking that I am that. It is more in thinking of this is what I want to be on the side of. These are the emotions that I want to cultivate.
These are the thoughts that I want to develop. So, that identification, if we see, we use the word merging or rather the word merging, we normally associate it with impersonalism. But scripture uses the word vilyate and merging quite common.
And often use it in the devotional context also. In Chaitanya Charita Amrita, devotees were merged in the ocean of ecstasy. Now that is not, that merging is not ontological.
It is not that there was some ocean of ecstasy in which the devotees their bodies dissolved. Isn’t it? That merging is in the sense of consciousness. Consciousness got united with, completely absorbed in that.
So, when we talk about identifying with spiritual sense objects or spiritual stimuli, it is not in the sense of merging of physical oneness. It is not that we give up our sense of identity, but rather we don’t focus on our sense of identity. We focus on serving Krishna or remembering Krishna or getting absorbed in what we are doing.
So, absorption is also in one sense a very deep level of identification. Isn’t it? You say, somebody is absorbed in studying Shastra. Maybe that person is not aware that, okay, I am a person, I am sitting here, I am studying Shastra.
He is completely lost in what one is doing. So, that getting lost is not in terms of one’s identity getting lost. It’s it, it’s consciousness getting absorbed.
So, when we say we should identify with spiritual emotions or spiritual thoughts, it is more of in terms of, not in terms of merging, but in terms of absorbing our consciousness. Is this your question? … Oh, okay. That’s a… So, then first we reject the mind and then we engage the mind.
See, yes, there is often within our way of presenting philosophy, the mind is always depicted as bad. But the fact is that we have to live with the mind. If we start loathing or hating the mind, it’s not going to work because the mind is an essential part of the mechanism by which we function in this world.
So, the mind is what channels the soul’s consciousness to the body and through the body to the outside world. So, we need the mind for functioning in this world. In that sense, the mind can be compared to a horse.
Now, if a person is on a ranch where there is a lot of territory to be covered, they need a horse to move around. But if the horse is wild, the horse may knock them down, the horse may stampede on them, injure them and kill them. So, they have to be alert to make sure that they are not just wounded by the horse.
But at the same time, they can’t hate the horse. They have to use the horse. So, the mind is like a horse.
That’s why the same Gita verse which says the mind can be the enemy, it also says it can be the friend. Same Gita verse which says, uddhare dātmanātmāna nātmānamo. It doesn’t say reject the mind, it says elevate yourself with the mind.
So, we shouldn’t have, we have to have a caution in dealing with the mind. So, if I am riding a horse, then I cannot just think that the horse knows whatever is good for me and I go wherever the horse starts going. I have to be aware of where I want to go and I have to make sure whether the horse is going in that direction or not.
Similarly, we cannot just ride a horse of the mind and go wherever it wants. So, we have to have some sense of distancing from the mind. That every single thought that comes in my mind, every feeling that I have, it is not necessarily my thought, it is not necessarily my feeling.
So, I have to philosophically understand the difference between me and my mind. But, we can’t reject the mind in the sense that we can’t hate the mind or we can’t live without the mind. The mind is there and it is a part of our, it is a part of the instrument that we need for functioning in this world.
For serving Krishna or for whatever purpose we are doing in this world. So, we have to learn to regulate the mind. Just like a horse rider has to learn, okay, this is what causes the horse to go wild, this is what causes the horse to come under control and this is how I can manage the horse.
So, similarly, we have to know our mind and find out what agitates the mind and try to avoid exposure to that. Try to see what calms the mind and we use that and that way we move onwards. We all have to learn to manage our mind.
Now, we have to live with our mind. We can’t reject the mind in the sense of and live without it. We have to live with it and that’s why if we consider Varanashram, in Varanashram we talk about the vritti, brahminical nature, akshatriya nature, vaisya nature.
Now, where is this nature situated? It is in the mind. The soul is not brahmin, kshatriya, vaisya, shudra and the body may have certain physical characteristics. Now, akshatriya may be well-built or whatever but then that particular attraction or inclination to do certain actions, that is present in the mind and the broad Vedic philosophy doesn’t tell us to reject your brahminical nature, you want to do brahminical activity, that is maya.
It doesn’t say that. It says use the brahminical nature for serving Krishna. That means if we consider right now our emotions, they can be classified into three broad categories.
There are the sensual emotions which are to be regulated and there are the emotions which arise according to our nature. So, a brahmana likes to read, likes to study. Akshatriya likes to manage, likes to delegate, likes to organise.
So, now this like is not to be rejected. This like is to be dovetailed in a way that it can be used for serving Krishna. And then there are spiritual emotions, emotions directly which the spiritual stimuli evoke in the soul.
So, those whenever they come, we cherish them, we treasure them and we try to nourish and help them grow. But primarily, we will be having these two emotions. Now, even in the Varanashram also, brahmana may like to read, but say while reading, I may start reading Mayavadi books because they are very nicely written, very nice word jugglery.
I may start reading atheistic books. That regulation I have to make sure. I don’t expose myself.
Just because I like intellectual things, that doesn’t mean anything intellectual will go. I have to find out the intersection between the intellectual and the devotional and situate myself over there. So, it’s not that we reject the mind entirely.
It is that within the mind, there are certain forces which are anti-devotional which we have to avoid. And there are certain forces which are pro-devotional which we have to channel. So, the mind has to be, mind has to be, we have to come to some sort of working relationship with our mind.
Isn’t it? We have to work with the mind. So, we have to come to a working relationship. If we can’t continuously keep doing all the things that we don’t like to do, we will feel choked by that.
So, within bhakti we find, the whole principle of Varanashram is, you see, everybody has to face problems in material life. The genius of Varanashram is that it allocates to people the problems that they like to face. A brahmana likes to study.
Now, studying is a challenge. If you tell a brahmana, if you tell a brahmana, you know, okay, this verse, there is some verse in scripture which says this. Find out this verse.
Now, if you tell a Vaishya that thing, Vaishya will say, what is the need? You know, you speak without the verse. Who will be able to notice? A brahmana will look forward to it and delight in that. On the other hand, if you tell a brahmana, you know, we want to raise 5 crore rupees to build a big temple.
The Vaishya will say, wonderful, yes, I will go and raise money. Brahmana will say, anyway, after building the temple, you want to study Shastra only. Why do you need a 5 crore temple? So, we have to find out, we have to come to a working relationship with our mind where we have to do some things which are a part of our service, but it is not that our life is 24 hours regulated, you know, you have to do this, this, this, this.
So, if we have to study Shastra, we have to find out which Shastra, which book inspires us. Initially, there is a pattern that we follow, this book, this book, this book, but eventually some devotees may find a greater connection with Bhagavatam, some may find with Sisi, some may find with Bhagavad Gita. So, and sometimes we may find, you know, okay, this devotee’s classes, I like a lot and it is not that, that is just the way we are channelling our mind.
So, we have to find out how we can situate ourselves in an intersection between what the mind likes and what is in the realm of Bhakti. And then we can move forward slowly. Thank you.
So, I will be giving, I think, class tomorrow also, so maybe we can have question and answer by that time. Hare Krishna. Thank you.