​Sugriva’s journey from doubt to faith

​Home program at Singapore

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
When Lord Ram was searching in separation from Sita, searching for Sita, he was directed by the demon Kabandha, whom Lord Ram delivered to go to Kishkindha and to meet the Vanaras headed by Sugriva. Now at that time Sugriva was living in great fear because he had been, due to misunderstanding, banished from his own kingdom.
Not just banished, but he was banished and dispossessed. In one sense, Sugriva’s position was more pitiable than that of Ram. Ram had also been banished.
Sugriva had also been banished. But Ram was at least not alienated from his brothers. All his brothers were with him.
Lakshman was with him physically. And Bharata also loved him. Bharata was also there with him in spirit.
And on top of that, Sita was also there with Ram. In contrast, with respect to Sugriva, his own brother, elder brother Vali, was the biggest threat to his life. And he had to flee.
He had to flee, leaving everything behind. So his wife also was there in the kingdom. And moreover, for Ram there was no threat to his life.
For Vali, there was a threat to his life. For Ram, there was a finite period after which his exile would have ended. For Sugriva, there was no such guarantee also.
There was no chance of reconciliation at all. Whenever he had tried, Vali had just been too convinced of his own idea. And he had actually travelled far and wide trying to find a hiding place.
And finally, near the hermitage of Matanga Rishi, he had, in that area, Vali is not allowed to come because of a curse by the Rishi. And that’s why he was safe over there. And yet he was in such fear that he was suspicious that Vali himself cannot come, but Vali may send someone else.
And that someone else may cause my destruction, cause my death. So when Ram and Lakshman entered Kishkindha, at that time Ram was crying in separation from Sita. And his cries resonated far and wide.
They were walking through the forest and his cries were there. And the Vanaras have sharp ears. So they could immediately sense the sound is unusual.
And Vali, Sugriva, they were on top of a mountain because that’s what they were hiding. They could strategically see from that place if anyone would attack. So Sugriva immediately came out of his cave and he looked out.
And he looked out and that time he saw that, oh, there is Ram over here. He did not recognise who it is. He looked carefully and he saw this look very peculiar.
He said that this person is dressed like a monk, like a renunciate, like a sage, but is carrying weapons. And his body is also well built and muscular, which is more like a body of a Kshatriya than that of a Brahmana. So he became suspicious.
Who is this person? Is this somebody who Sugriva, Vali has sent to kill me? And he called out in concern and alarm to Hanuman. Hanuman came out and Hanuman looked. He said, there is two human beings.
Why are you so worried about it? He said, you don’t know. Vali can attack by any means. So he looked around and Hanuman felt there is no need to be anxious.
Why are you so worried about this? But Sugriva said, you go and enquire who they are. And in case they come to kill us, be careful. So go and disguise.
So Hanuman went there in the form of a Brahman and Hanuman spoke very, very sweet words. In fact, the Valmiki Ramayana has several paragraphs where Ram is so pleased by the sweet speech of this Brahmana. He says he must be a very learned person.
Ram says over there that the speech is so sweet that if a person comes with appraised arms to attack, sometimes when a person is about to attack, we need force to disarm the person. And still it is very difficult. While trying to disarm that person, we still attack.
These words of Hanuman are so disarming. Now who is this sweet person? Then he asks reverentially, who are you? Hanuman asks and then Lakshman answers. Lakshman introduces both of them.
And that time Hanuman recognises. Oh, this is your Ram. He is delighted.
He offers obeisances and Ram tells him that we are searching for Sugriva and we want to form an alliance with him. So Hanuman feels very relieved. And Hanuman says, oh, I am servant of Sugriva and I can take you there.
So at that time Lakshman and Ram say, let’s go quickly. He says we have to climb up a mountain. It will take time.
I can take you faster. You can take us faster? How is that? Because at that time he has a normal size. So Hanuman feels piqued.
And Hanuman says, it suddenly becomes a huge size. And he places both of them on his two shoulders and seated as he takes them there. And at this point, Sugriva is watching and he sees Hanuman bringing both of them.
Sugriva is still a little apprehensive. Hanuman is clever, but still, was Hanuman deceived by them? What is happening? So at that time Hanuman introduces both of them. This is Ram, this is Lakshman, this is Sugriva.
And at that time Sugriva, he recognises, everybody has heard of Ram. So normally at that time the principles of primogeniture. Primogeniture means the eldest son inherits the kingdom.
So Ram was well known and Sugriva offered a seat to Ram, basically a wooden trunk. And he himself sat down. So Lakshman did not offer any proper seat.
So Hanuman immediately offered a seat to Lakshman also. And then they described their plights. So both of them were in a similar plight.
And when Ram heard about Sugriva’s plight, he said that Vali has done a great injustice to you. Without giving you any chance for clarification, without hearing your side of the story, he has punished you. And he says he deserves to be punished for this.
And Ram says that I, Ram doesn’t say I am the king and I’ll do justice. He says Bharat is the king and I am his servant. So as his servant, it is my duty to assist you.
And Sugriva becomes very happy and they form an alliance. So they light a sacred fire and both of them go around the fire to formalise their alliance. Now at this point, Sugriva is convinced that Ram is his well-wisher.
But still he has doubts about Ram’s power. And he says that Vali is so powerful. He is describing many of the exploits of Vali.
And Lakshman is derisive. He says none of this is even barely a match to Ram. So Sugriva looks at Lakshman, he is still sceptical.
He says you have seen many powers, many displays of the power of Ram. But I have not seen any. So at that time he says, nearby only there is the carcass of this demon Dundumi.
So he says Vali is so powerful, he hurled this carcass. I hurled the demon and the demon just flew far away, right from Kishkindha he came and fell over here. So what does Ram do? He comes there and flicks it with his toe.
It’s not even like a forceful football kick, like a small child pushing with a toy. And the carcass just disappears far into the horizon. Sugriva is impressed.
He says still, at that time when Vali threw, it had flesh, it had muscles. Now it’s just an empty skeleton. So it’s much easier to throw it up.
So then he looks around and says there are tal trees. He says Vali is so powerful that with one blow of his hand, he can just break a tal tree. So Ram takes out his bow and then he shoots an arrow.
And that arrow goes through the first tree, second tree, seven trees and not just seven trees, after that it goes into the earth and goes right into the earth and comes out just in front of Ram and enters into his quiver. When Sugriva sees this, he is just stunned. It’s like some batsman, you know, comes and hits one sixer and feels very proud, I have hit one sixer.
And then some other batsman comes along and maybe say two, three overs, all sixers, continuously keeps hitting. He feels dwarfed. I have no power.
Vali’s power is also nothing. And Sugriva falls and offers obeisances to him. He says, now, justice will be given to me.
I am confident about this. I surrender to you. So Natha Sugriva bheeshta dha Rama.
Natha Sugriva, there is a book, there is a collection of names of Ram called Nama Ramayana. And this describes the various pastimes of Ram sequentially, right from his birth onwards. So Natha Sugriva, he offered obeisances to him and bheeshta.
And Lord Ram blessed him with the crown. So actually Ram is so special that in today’s terminology, he was a king maker. You know, today some politician who doesn’t become the king, but he makes others kings.
So Ram was a king maker. He was not a king. Two people he made into king.
Who are the two people? Sugriva and bheeshta. And interestingly, actually Ram coronated both of them when their brothers were alive. So the idea is Ram was so confident of his victory and Ram also wanted to assure them, I have nothing against your dynasty.
I don’t want to take over your dynasty. I don’t want to annex your kingdom. We simply want to hand over the kingdom to a more righteous ruler.
So here, when we live in the world, we often have doubts. And say, when we start practising bhakti also, we may have some doubts about there are so many paths. Is this the right path? We start practising bhakti and still we have some doubts.
Various doubts keep coming. Now, interestingly, the Bhagavatam, third canto says that doubt is a function of the intelligence. It’s a function of the intelligence.
So samshayo is the first characteristic of buddhi, it says. So now, why is that? Because it requires intelligence to be able to doubt. Sometimes advertisements are shown.
Advertisements just glamorise things. And foolish people just believe that. Sometimes people say cigarette advertisement.
It’s cool. You are a fool. How can cigarette be cool? So if people don’t have sufficient critical intelligence, they may believe anything and everything.
So doubt is a function of the intelligence. Only an intelligent person can doubt. But doubt is not the only function of the intelligence.
If you always keep doubting, then we will never learn anything. It’s like when somebody knocks on our door, we won’t just, if we don’t know who is coming in, nobody is expected at that time, we will not just open the door and let them come in. We first scrutinise who is there, security camera or whatever, we check it out first.
But if that person is a relative, a friend, a well-wisher, and if because of our doubt we keep them out, that is undesirable. So doubt should be used to close doors. It says we can physically close doors.
Similarly, doubt can be used to intellectually close doors. And in some cases it is desirable. But in many cases it can become undesirable.
Doubt can only tell us what is wrong. Doubt can never tell us what is right. Doubt, trying to use doubt to acquire knowledge is like applying the brake to move the car.
It’s inherently opposite. The brake is meant to freeze motion. Similarly, doubt is meant to prevent us from moving forward.
You may say I know what is not right, but that doesn’t necessarily help us to know what is right. At some point we have to put our doubt aside and move forward in taking the step of knowledge. So although Hanuman is subordinate to Sugriva within the Vanara race, although he is minister, but still here Hanuman actually introduces Sugriva to Ram and Hanuman actually is a key player there.
In fact, Sugriva is the king, but if you look at the Sundar Kand and then look at the Lanka Kand, at that time it is Hanuman who plays a far more pivotal role than Sugriva. So actually Hanuman in one sense acts like the spiritual master. So the spiritual master is the one who introduces us to Krishna.
And it is by the association of the spiritual master. We naturally have doubts when we live in this world. And those doubts are natural.
But just because they are natural doesn’t mean that they are always desirable. Because at a particular time we use our, Prabhupada says we should use our doubts, our doubting faculty to doubt the promises of materialists. The promise of material pleasure that is there all around.
We use our doubting faculty to doubt that. And the problem with the world it is said is that the foolish are confident and the wise are doubtful. The foolish are confident.
Materialistic people, they are fully confident that if I just get this sense gratification, I will be in ecstasy. That’s what they think. Totally convinced about it.
And even if they don’t get it, they think next time I’ll get it. And next time I’ll get it. They are confident and sometimes the wise, those who have spiritual knowledge, to understand the ultimate purpose of it, they are doubtful.
So the way out of this is by associating with those who can remove our doubts and who can give us faith. I’ll conclude with one point. We can have some questions.
That there are two kinds of doubts. There are brain doubts and there are heart doubts. Brain doubts means that knowledge in scripture is vast.
Knowledge about anything in this world, if we say, that is just oceanic. It’s like how many people who use electricity know how electricity works? Not many. How many people who use internet know how internet works? It’s not that everything that we use, we know everything about it.
Now we may want to know a few things and if we want, we can study and we can learn. But it’s not essential. So in scripture also there is a vast amount of knowledge.
At one time one devotee asked, one disciple asked Prabhupada, Prabhupada it is said that Maharaja Ugrasen had some millions or billions of bodyguards. So when we tell this to the scholars, how do we, the scholars laugh at us. They say, where would they live? Where were their toilets? How could they manage in Dwarka? So what do we answer? So Prabhupada replies, in all the thousands of the verses in the Bhagavatam, was it the only thing that you found to talk with scholars? So this is a brain doubt.
There are different levels that the universe exists and different things are possible. This is not a central thing. So brain doubts, for example, with Kanto cosmology.
How is it exactly described? What does it mean? This is something which is difficult to understand. So these doubts are okay if we can meet some specialist devotees and ask them and get their answers. And even if we don’t get the answers, it doesn’t matter so much.
Now what is hard doubts are doubts about matters of the heart. Is Krishna really God? Is chanting Hare Krishna really going to purify me? Is there, will I really go back to Krishna by chanting the holy names, by practising Bhakti Yoga? And these doubts, they can be countered when we live, when we associate with devotees closely. And this is not just as intellectually we can and should get clarification that’s what we need.
But it is when we see how devoted devotees are, it is their association, it is their inspiration, it is their conviction that comes to us through a process of osmosis. Osmosis is a scientific process wherein one item goes into another, not by bursting into it, not by breaking it, but just organically, gently going inside. So this is how, by association, the faith gets transferred.
When Srila Prabhupada introduced Jagannath Baldev Subhadra in America, at that time he had not written any literature about Jagannath Baldev Subhadra. Because he had translated Bhagavad Gita, it was just published. And there was also the Bhagavatam which he was writing, it was not yet published.
And even in Bhagavad Gita there is no reference to Jagannath. In Bhagavatam also there is no reference to Jagannath. In C.C. there is a lot of reference.
C.C. had not yet been published. So one of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples wrote to Prabhupada asking him that, Prabhupada, as per the rules that you have told us, we are worshipping the deities very carefully, but please can you tell me who is this lord that I am worshipping? Because Jagannath doesn’t look like Krishna. Then you are worshipping Krishna, but who is this? Krishna is playing a flute, Jagannath is so different.
So they had such faith because it came by Srila Prabhupada’s purity, by his potency. And we too by associating with devotees, we don’t have to have that kind of, we are not challenged with that level of ignorance that we don’t know whom we are worshipping. But that is the example of how the pure devotee’s presence can just transcend the scope of our intelligence and influences at the level of the heart.
For most of us, for study practise, the way to the heart is often through the head. I mean, I study the philosophy, I understand it systematically, but then we shouldn’t stay stuck at the level of the head. We go deeper to the level of the heart.
And that happens then. In the Bhagavatam, there are three stages talked about. There is Adau Shraddha.
Then the fifth stage is Nishtha. The ninth stage is, in the nine stages of developing love of God, that is Prema. So from Shraddha to Nishtha.
Shraddha is like tender faith. It is like a banana tree. Nishtha is strong faith.
It is like a banyan tree. And the growth from Shraddha to Nishtha happens by our own practise. In between there is Sadhu Sangha, there is Bhajana Kriya and there is Anartha Nivratti.
So when we practise Bhakti, when we see ourselves getting purified, when we see ourselves, my anger goes down, my greed goes down, my lust goes down, my ego is going down. We see ourselves becoming better human beings. We see ourselves getting transformed.
Then the conviction that comes from that is very deep. Somebody says, this is wrong over here, that is wrong over there, this is problem, that is problem. Yes, there may be problems, but the process still works.
So it’s like suppose there is one doctor whose medicine we have taken and we are getting cured by that doctor’s medicine. And some other doctor comes along or some people come and say, this doctor is a quack, this doctor is bogus. We say, OK, you’re saying the doctor is quack, but the medicine is curing.
So from my perspective, this is right. So it’s like saying the diagnosis is wrong, patient cured. So there is somebody keeps accusing diagnosis is wrong, diagnosis is wrong.
It doesn’t matter to us because we have seen the prescription work in our life. As I said, rather than getting caught in too many brain doubts, how is this, how is that, how is that? We focus on practising Bhakti, rendering services and practising Bhakti and we will see the transformation in our own lives. Krishna says that it is directly experienceable in our heart through the process of Bhakti.
Pratyaksha means that which we see directly. Pratyaksha Vagamam, he says 9.2 in the Bhagavad Gita, that means it is directly experienced inside us by the practise of Bhakti yoga. So I’ll summarise.
I talked about the Ramayana, how Sugriva had so much injustice happen to him. And because of that, he had reasons to doubt. He had been exiled unfairly, there was a threat to his life.
He had absolutely nothing and no one with him. And there was no sign when he was going to ever regain what he had lost. His situation was much worse than Ram’s in one sense.
But Sugriva, Sugriva’s suspicion was first allayed by seeing how Hanuman was affectionate to Ram and then by talking with Ram, by getting, understanding Ram’s benevolent intention and then seeing Ram’s power, his doubts were removed. Similarly, we can also have doubts. So doubt is a sign of intelligence, but it’s not the only sign of intelligence.
Doubt can show us what is wrong. It cannot tell us what is right. So using doubt to acquire knowledge is like using a brake to move.
It doesn’t work. So we need to, we can have doubts, but we use our intelligence to go beyond doubts also. And for that we differentiate.
Some doubts we may see, we are not able to go beyond. That is brain doubt, we just put them aside. And the heart doubts, they go when we associate with devotees and by their inspiration we learn through the process of osmosis, we get their conviction.
And then when we see ourselves being transformed by the process of bhakti, then no matter what doubts others allege, for us it is like somebody is saying diagnosis is wrong, but the patient is cured. At that time bhakti has gone from shraddha to nishtha, the state of unshakeable conviction, like a banyan tree. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. Any questions, comments? Secondly, we try to share our interpretation, which is very nice. Is there a way to use doubt to know knowledge? OK.
So if we have doubts, by trying to ask questions or by trying to share our own explanation of things, is that a way to get the doubt? Yeah. So asking questions based on doubts, is that the way to move forward and get knowledge? Yes, definitely. There are at the same time devotees of different dispositions.
And not all devotees are very intellectual. And we need to find the right devotees to whom we can ask questions. Some devotees we just ask them questions.
Chant Hare Krishna, everything will be alright. Well, that is not an answer at that level. It may satisfy some people, but it may not satisfy some people.
It’s like in ordinary life also. If some people give you a mobile, they just start using it. Other people want to open the mobile.
You know what works how. That’s just curiosity. It’s not that necessarily this curiosity is a virtue or that lack of curiosity is a lack of virtue.
It is just that different people are different and they need to be accommodated. This is if you say you have a curiosity about mobile. Otherwise, why are you wasting so much time? But then you have to find out others.
If you really want to learn about mobile, you find out others who are interested and discuss with them. So, Jiva Goswami says in the Shatrath Sandarvas that we need not just association, we need like-minded association. Sajati Aashay Bhagwat Bhakti Sangam.
Sajati Aashay, those who have the same kind of mentality, same mentality, similar mentality. So, we have to look for devotees who also are analytical. They address issues about which are doubtful and they answer those issues.
And we will find if we search, there are devotees like that. And if I find some devotees are discouraging us in asking about doubts, we better not raise those doubts in front of them. We don’t have to suppress those doubts.
We have to find the right devotees with whom we can ask those questions and get the answers. Yes. As far as using our intelligence, it’s not always speculative because there is, with our intelligence, what we do, it can be called, it is called as anuman.
And when the anuman is according to Shastra, Shastra moolak anuman is called as vichar. Prabhupada gives the example of difference between mental speculation and philosophical speculation. Mental speculation means we begin with the mind and we end with the mind.
It’s our own ideas. But philosophical speculation means we accept what Shastra says is true. But we try to use our intelligence to understand how Shastra says, how what Shastra says is true.
So, philosophical speculation is good, especially for those who are intellectually orientated and especially for those who want to share Krishna’s message with others. We have to be equipped with the answers. So, offering our understanding, not as a conclusive understanding.
And we shouldn’t offer our understanding in a public forum where we are, we are representing someone. If we are officially giving class on Vyasa-san, at that time, we should not just give our understanding, if we are not confirming it with senior devotees. But asking is, this is how I understand, does it make sense? In the middle, yeah, this part is OK, but this part maybe we have to adjust it.
So that way we can get the doubts addressed in the proper forum. How do we establish the authenticity of scriptures? Basically, there are three points in this. There is the principle, there is the process and there is the fruit.
Fruit or the result. Principle is that if we look at the world around us, we see that our basic needs are provided for. We have hunger and food is provided for.
We have to work to acquire it. But our work doesn’t produce the food. It only procures the food for us.
It is already produced by nature. We need, we have, we breathe and there is already air. We have thirst and there is water.
So our basic needs in nature are provided for. Now, one need that is also very important is knowledge. If some, say, on someone’s birthday, a friend gave a very complicated machine.
You could clearly see that this is really an expensive, complicated machine. And they gave no manual with it. Now, what friend would do something like that? What is the use? If you spend so much money, made such a machine, then they would actually give something with it to guide it.
So like that we see our body is very complicated. The world is very complicated, not just complicated in a messy sense, it’s complicated also in an organised sense. So would the same God who has provided us food, light, air, water, heat, has provided us all this for living, would he not give us knowledge about the purpose of living? So in principle, it is a logical inference to say that God would give us some knowledge.
And that knowledge is what comes to us in the principle of revelation. That is the principle. And the second part is the process.
So, for example, say, if this is a machine I have and this is the manual, this is a book which I have. Now, how do I know that this book is the manual for this machine? Now, one way is that I can basically look, read the manual and see if first, it helps me to make better sense of the machine and second, if it helps me to work better with the machine. Similarly, we can see if we study the Bhagavad Gita.
Does the Bhagavad Gita help us to make better sense of life? Does the Bhagavad Gita help us to respond to life better? Everybody is going to face problems in life, but just as every machine, no machine is perfect, every machine has problems, but if you have a manual, then it gives some troubleshooting measures. Do this, do this, do this. So, like that, we look at the Bhagavad Gita.
Does it help us to do troubleshooting better whenever we face problems in life? And if we understand the Bhagavad Gita properly, we will see that it does help us to make better sense and help us to work better. And this is the process. How do I normally check whether a book is a manual? By using it.
Similarly, if we use the Bhagavad Gita, we can see for ourselves that this does make a difference. Now, one advantage which we have over other religions, we are not in the competition over here, but other religions claim that their way is the only way. Their book is the only book.
But the Bhagavad Gita doesn’t claim like that. Our tradition says that same God can give His wisdom and His grace in many ways. So, it is not that if we once look at the principle that God will give knowledge to enlighten us, yes, He can give it in many ways.
And of course, not all manuals are equally relevant. Sometimes a manual may be for an older version of a machine. Sometimes maybe for a different country, the same manual might be told in a different way.
So, like that there are variations. But the principle is there and there is process. And then we look at the fruit.
The fruit is that it’s related to the process itself. But actually, the Bhagavad Gita is not just a manual for doing things in the outer world. It’s actually meant for doing things in the inner world.
Science can make things better. Scripture can make people better. Science cannot make people better.
If somebody is short tempered, science cannot say, take this pill and your anger will go away. You can give a pill which can make the person go to sleep. But when they wake up, all the anger is still there.
It’s not so simple. But of course, they can do some chemicals by which temporarily the brain’s behaviour will be suppressed. But that is not the cure.
It’s suppression. Whereas there is purification that can happen by the scripture guideline. So that in that sense, just as we have knowledge for dealing with the outer world, we need knowledge for dealing with the inner world.
And we see that the Bhagavad Gita does help us to reform ourselves internally. Then we again get that deepened conviction. So rather than in today’s age, approaching with scripture as the absolute authority of God, the infallible word of God, rather than presenting scripture that way, we can present scripture as an experiential way for self transformation.
You experience yourself and you’ll see the transformation that happens in your life. And actually, there is also Krishna’s approach. Krishna says, Vimrishayita dasheshena yathe chisita kuru.
In 18.63 in the Bhagavad Gita he says, at the end of the Bhagavad Gita, now deliberate deeply and decide what you want to do. So Krishna is not a God who gives commandments. Do this, don’t do this.
Krishna says, Krishna is a God who gives choices. His choices entails consequence. And then he appeals to our intelligence.
So he says, deliberate deeply and decide what you want to do. That means use your intelligence and decide what you want to do. That means you have your independence.
Use your independence wisely. So by understanding the principle that God will give us, then one of the needs for living, there is knowledge. And by looking at the process of checking how whether a manual helps us to make better sense of the device and use it better.
And thirdly, recognising that this provides a fruit that nothing else can provide. Other sources of knowledge can help us to improve the outer world. But this is a source of knowledge that can transform our inner world.
By that we can establish the value of scripture. And this is a pragmatic way. We don’t have to necessarily prove that every single word in scripture has been written, has been spoken by God and that’s how it is.
That is very difficult to prove. But we can establish through a chain of inferences that scripture offers us very valuable knowledge. And as people practise bhakti, as people develop devotion for Krishna, then their faith in scripture will also increase more and more.
A similar line, as you said, sometimes the whole scripture has been written just to make sure, you know, that higher, people who are in higher power, they use, mix around and they form the scripture so that all people will just follow what they are saying and then to control the whole population, the whole ideology basically. So how to counter that kind of belief? So someone says that scripture was written just by people who are in power to gain control over other people. How do we counter that? Actually, this is basically a communist idea.
Communism tries to interpret everything in the world in terms of class struggle. So there is a higher class, there is a lower class and the higher class always exploits the lower class. And they say that religion is a tool used by the higher class to exploit the lower class.
But the problem with this interpretation of communism is, see, every philosophy is like a map. Now, suppose I have a map of Singapore, then that will help me to go around Singapore. But suppose somebody gives me a map of Malaysia and then I go around Singapore, then I just not find places.
This doesn’t make sense, this doesn’t make sense, this doesn’t make sense. So people who don’t have an accurate map, that means their philosophy doesn’t reflect with reality properly, they keep walking off their map because their map doesn’t make sense with reality. So we see, first of all, if you look at the bhakti tradition itself, if you look at scripture, it talks repeatedly about inverting the power structures.
This is a defining characteristic of bhakti, inverting the power structures. We see that Ambanish Maharaj is a grahastha and is a kshatriya. Durvasa Muni is a brahmana and a sanyasi.
And yet the Bhagavatam shows that Durvasa Muni is higher. I once gave a class, there are seven striking examples in the Bhagavatam of the inversion of the normal hierarchy. So much so, the Bhagavatam is actually so subversive in one sense, that even we have Bali Maharaj rejecting his own spiritual master, Shukracharya.
You know, we have, normally there is the side of good and the side of evil. But we have, you know, Indra is shown as lower than Uttarasura. So Uttarasura is shown as a greater devotee.
And the most classic example is, a true example of course, we see that the yajna brahmana patnis, their wives are shown to be higher than their husbands. And among all devotees, the gopis are shown to be the highest devotees. So basically, bhakti, far from perpetuating the existing social hierarchy, talks about inverting it.
There is a normal hierarchy to which respect is offered. But if there is bhakti, then that hierarchy gets transcended. And we see, in general, this religion can and does become a tool for the powerful to dominate the powerless.
But we will see that within religion itself, there are systems of reform which come up. The whole bhakti movement is a movement of reform. Sometimes people ask, they say that you are propagating this discriminatory caste system.
You know, from India, there was such a terrible caste system. And you are spreading Indian culture now. So you are propagating the same discriminatory caste system.
But actually, if we see, the bhakti saints were often the victims of the caste system. And they are the primary, among the primary leaders who agitate against the caste system. So rather than thinking of scripture as one body of knowledge or religion as one homogenous unit, where it’s all being used to exploit, you understand that there are different kinds of people within religion also.
And it is a sad truth that religion has been abused at times by the powerful to exploit the powerless. But the same, within the same religion itself, reform has also come. And the bhakti tradition is primarily a tradition of reform.
Where by giving supreme importance to devotion, the spiritual is repeatedly shown to trump the material. So the Bhagavad Gita Bhagavatam offers respect to brahmanas. It doesn’t entirely reject the brahmanas.
But it shows that the brahmanas are subordinate to those who have bhakti. So in that sense, it’s actually a means to break the stronghold of the powerful, not perpetuate that stronghold. We’ll stop here.
Thank you very much. We’ll repeat the verse once again. TERIYASYA PURATO MARUTERIYASYA TAM VANDE RAGHUNANDANAM RAMACHANDRA BHAGWANIKI JAI SHILA PRABHUPADAKI GAURA BHAKTA VINDAKI JAI SHILA Thank you.
Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna.