​Take charge of your inner conversation

​Sunday feast class at ISKCON, Central New Jersey, USA

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
So, thank you all for coming today evening for this discussion on I’ll be speaking on dealing with the mind specifically in terms of taking charge of our inner conversation. Am I audible behind to everyone? Am I audible? Okay. So, taking charge of our inner conversation.
The Bhagavad Gita talks about the mind in many places. In one particularly intriguing verse, in 6.5, it states, uddhare dātmanātmānam nātmānam avasādayet ātmai vai ātmano bandhu ātmai varipurātmanaḥ So, this verse, actually, in Sanskrit, words are multivalent. Multivalent means same word can have multiple meanings.
So, if you take this verse literally, the word ātmā, in this verse comes six times, uddhare dātmanātmānam nātmānam avasādayet ātmai vai ātmano bandhu ātmai varipurātmanaḥ So, literally, the verse means, and Vishwanath Chakravartha, a prominent Gita commentator, translates it as, elevate the self with the self, don’t degrade the self with the self, for the self is the friend of the self, and the self is also the enemy of the self. We forget what the self is. It’s such a confusing thing.
So, Śrīla Prabhupāda makes things simple by translating the ātmā here as the mind. The word ātmā has many meanings. One of them is the mind also.
So, he explains, basically, the verse is saying, elevate yourself with your mind and don’t degrade yourself with your mind. Now, to understand what the mind is and how we can deal with it, I would like to use the metaphor of a conversation. Suppose, we go to meet someone, and some people are ultra-talkative.
When we start talking with them, it’s not talking with them, it’s simply they are talking and we are here. And, if they are talking about a subject that is of interest to us, that is fine. But, if it is not of interest to us, then they are just talking on and on and on, and then we are looking at the ceiling, we are looking at the watch, we are looking at the door, we are wondering when the conversation will end.
Sometimes, it happens that people dominate a conversation and they dominate it undesirably. So, at that time, you know, if we want to discuss something important with them, if we just want to end the conversation, then we may just say, I have to go somewhere and leave. But, if we want to talk, because we need to talk something important with them, but they are talking something different, then we have to become a little assertive.
At a particular time, when they pause, we change the subject and take the subject to where it is important, the area that is important for us. just as if we are talking with someone, we would like that conversation to be productive, to be meaningful. So, now, same way, the Bhagavad Gita urges us to treat the mind like another person.
The mind is inside us, but it is not us. Now, usually, we refer to external and internal based on the reference point of the body. That means, say, this glass here is outside me and if, say, if inside me there is a thought, maybe I am thinking, the weather has become a little cold, that thought is inside me.
So, usually, we think of that which is inside us as internal and that which is outside as external. But this is based on the reference of the body. Whereas, the Bhagavad Gita tells us that we are the soul.
And from the reference point of the soul, even the thoughts that are in the mind are external to us. So, everything inside me is not me. Everything inside me is not me.
Thoughts are there inside me, which are not necessarily my thoughts. So, to deal with, to differentiate between what are actually our thoughts and what are not our thoughts, we can treat the mind as a separate person. And, now, we can experience in our own life that our mind is constantly speaking.
Usually, now, whenever we meet someone for the first time or we meet someone familiar, now, as soon as we meet them, our mind starts passing a comment about them. This person, lazy person. This irresponsible person.
This person is like that. That person is like that. So, constantly, our mind passes comments about things.
And, it’s not just a passing comment. Actually, that one comment often grows and becomes bigger and bigger. So, for example, if we are going to go for an outing, maybe some picnic, some yatra, and we are looking forward to it.
We have planned for a long time and we are going with your friends. And then, suddenly, just before the day of the outing, the previous night we get flu. And when we get the flu, we fall sick and then, we are in bed and we are not able to move.
And, we are frustrated. Now, all my plans are thwarted. Now, actually speaking, yes, if I have a flu and I am not able to go for a planned outing, it is sad.
But, the mind makes the problem much bigger than it needs to be. That means, yes, if I have a flu, I am on bed, being weak, being incapacitated, that is inconvenient. But, it is not necessarily miserable.
Okay, if I just rest, I take some medicines, I take some healthy food, I will get well. But then, inside, the mind is beating. Why did this happen? Why this? Life is so unfair.
Everyone else is enjoying. I am suffering over here. It is always such things happen with me.
Life stinks. You know, just things go bigger and bigger and bigger. And then, we reduce ourselves to a state of misery.
So, resentment of reality often hurts much more than reality. The reality is that I am sick. And, that hurts.
But, the resentment of that reality, Oh, why did this happen? Why did this happen? That hurts much more. And, that’s how the mind’s command, the mind is speaking, things always go wrong for you. You are never able to do anything right.
Either you do something wrong or life does something wrong. And, always you are miserable. This is the way it is always going to be.
So, the mind keeps having its own conversation. And, by its conversation, actually it is not a conversation, it is a conversation means two people are talking. But, usually this is a monologue.
The mind is speaking and we are actually very submissively hearing. Now, we are meant to submissively hear from Krishna, from Guru, Sadhu, Shastra. But, we are very submissively hearing from the mind.
And then, the mind says, yeah, life stinks. Yes, life stinks. Yes, it’s true.
So, what happens when the mind keeps speaking like this, as the mind is speaking, as the mind is speaking, we are getting more and more discouraged. So, imagine if there is a porter who is paid to carry a 10 kg luggage. And, a 10 kg luggage is manageable.
But, if that porter puts 30 more kg on that, and then has to carry 40 kg. Now, 40 kg carrying is much more difficult. And, if the payment is only going to be 10 kg, then why carry 30 kg more? So, like that, actually, life sends us problems.
The problem is basically like a 10 kg weight. But, the mind comments about the problem. They are like an additional 30 kg weight.
And, because of that, we feel more and more burdened. And thus, we disempower ourselves. And, life determines our problems.
But, our mind determines the size of those problems. Life determines the problems. Falling sick, having some financial issues, having some health issues, having some relationship issues.
All these kind of problems do come in life. But, how big that problem is, that depends on how much we listen to the mind’s commenting about it. And, by the mind’s commenting, the problem can become much bigger than it needs to be.
When the problem becomes much much bigger than it needs to be, then we feel tiny, we feel disempowered and we feel helpless. So, this inner conversation is always going on within us, whether we are aware of it or we are not aware of it. The mind is constantly speaking.
Sometimes, its speech becomes very aggressive. Sometimes, it just whispers gently. Sometimes, it screams.
Either way, it distracts us. And, in this way, if we just submissively hear the mind, then, we get caught. Once we are caught, we get misled from whatever it is that we wanted to do.
So, to give another example of how the mind can dominate our inner conversation. See, broadly, there are two ways in which the mind distracts us. One is by the promise of pleasure and the other is by the threat of trouble.
Say, for example, if I am going from a road, on a road from here to here, and the road is straight, I can go ahead. But, if I see a nice hotel over here, maybe I can go and eat something. There is the promise of pleasure.
Going along the road, and suddenly, I think, maybe there is an accident on this road. Maybe the road is slippery. Or, maybe there is some terrorist threat over here.
Whatever. Then, there is fear of trouble. So, I stop and not go ahead on the road.
So, like that, we all have certain things to do in our life and they are important for us. We are going on a journey in our life. But, the mind distracts us either by the promise of pleasure or by the threat of trouble.
And, either case, the mind speaks and speaks and if we don’t catch the mind when it is speaking, after some time, the mind’s voice appears to be our voice. Now, I will give a couple of examples and then this point may become a little clear. Most of us use computers and we may use browsers whether it is computers or phones.
Now, quite often, especially if it goes on some purchasing website, say Amazon. Then, if we are looking at one product, there are also links which go to similar products. The links are on the left side, on the right side, on the bottom.
And then, if we have gone to purchase something. Now, there are some links which are static and sometimes on a site, if you visit, there is also a pop-up window. So, links are at least passive on the site, but pop-up window just comes up right in our face.
It fills the screen sometimes. So now, we have gone on the net to search for something. Maybe we have to purchase one thing.
But while going there, if we look at some other, okay, this link is also there. Then, we click on that link. And then, oh, this link is also there.
Click on that link also. And click on that link also. And sometimes, what we may want to look for five minutes, we may find that I have spent three hours on this.
We just lose track of time. And in this case, we originally started off for looking for one thing. But from there, all the associated links, by clicking on them, we went in all different directions.
Now, suppose there was a, there was some technology, by which, at least in current technology, the way it is that we have to click on the link. And after we click on the link, then that particular page opens up. But suppose there were some technology, by which, which could detect our eyes.
And as soon as we look at the link, that link opens up. We would be lost practically. As soon as we look at something, oh, it opens up.
And then, we look at that, it opens up. It opens up. So, like that, our mind, we can consider it to be like a computer screen.
And on that computer screen, there are different links over there. There is one thought, there is one website, one page we are reading, we are visiting. So, like that, right now also, if we can think of, you know, we are trying to do one thing.
Say, I am trying to speak, you are trying to hear. So, that is the primary focus. But, on the screen of our mind, there are many links also there.
You know, if I am speaking, I am saying, okay, who is coming in from the temple? Or, I am looking, okay, how much are people understanding? How much, who is attentive? Or, say, if you are there, you may be thinking, okay, I have to, after this class, I have to go here, or I have to do that. We all have so many thoughts which are also there. So, now, these are all like links on the screen of the mind.
And this is such that, actually, the mind screen is such that we don’t have to click anything. Mind itself is subtle. But, while we are sitting, if I am just sitting over here, and I am trying to speak, at that time, if there is just some thought in the background of the mind, and I start thinking about that, just by thinking, the click opens up.
It’s like a clicking, and the link opens up. And then, our thoughts go in that direction. And then, they go further in that direction.
Further in that direction. And in that way, now, we sit sometimes in a class, but while we are sitting in a class, our body is sitting, but our mind often goes trolling. You know, mind goes here, mind goes there, mind goes there.
And sometimes, especially, if there is a joke in the class, in the class, what was the joke? So, what happens? The mind hears everyone laughing, and the mind says, I also want to laugh. What is the joke? So, mind comes back at that time. So, basically, the mind is very restless.
Krishna says, chanchala. It’s like a child. It’s restless.
And when we want to say it is restless, now, I’ll take this metaphor a little further. At one level, the mind is like the screen, which is displaying various options to us. In 15.9, in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says that the mind is like the integrator of the inputs from the senses.
Shrotra is ears, chakshu is the eyes. Shrotram, chakshu, sparshanam, touch. Rasanam, graname, the tongue and the nose.
Now, from all these senses, the inputs are coming. And all these inputs are like links on the screen of the mind. And actually, these are not the only links that are there.
There are many links which are also coming from our past memories. And all these are there on the screen of the mind. And we are trying to focus on one thing.
But any of these, if we dwell on any of those links, they can blow up and then our mind can get distracted. So, suppose, sometimes, going back to the earlier example of, we visit, say, some website, say, amazon.com or some other shopping website. Sometimes, there might be some helpline.
So, welcome to our site. Can I help you in any way? There is a pop-up window which comes. Now, if you click on the chat window, then the conversation starts over.
So, like that, now, the computer itself is inactive. But, there are channels over there which can lead to activity. So, if I go on the chat window and click yes, then the conversation will start over there.
So, like that, in the mind, multiple things are potentially there. And wherever we pay attention to, that is what becomes activity. So, one principle which we can understand of how the mind works is whatever catches our attention, catches us.
Whatever catches our attention, catches us. So, there are many things around but something catches our attention, then our attention goes there, our consciousness goes there, our desires grow in that direction and then we end up doing that activity. So, the mind is not just a screen which is displaying things.
But, the mind is also like an agent which is proposing things. Why don’t you do that? Why don’t you do this? So, I earlier talked about how the mind makes problems bigger than what they need to. Now, I am talking about the other aspect.
How the mind allures us with desires. Now, why don’t you do this? Why don’t you enjoy this? Why don’t you buy this? Why don’t you eat this? Like that. So, when these desires come up, they are initially simply thoughts.
Just like a link over there. But, if we pay attention to it, then that there is there is thought which becomes a desire. When it becomes a desire, it becomes stronger.
Thought means, okay, that thing is there, over there. That’s nice, I want it. I would love to have this.
And then from desire, it becomes intention. I am going to get it. And, once it becomes an intention, then soon, it will become an action.
So, there is thought, where there is simply observation without emotion. Just like, say, if we move along on the roads, we may see some billboards which are advertising something. So, initially, okay, there is a billboard over there.
Let’s look at the billboard. What is it? At that level, it is just a thought. Then, look at it.
This means an ad of a new phone is there. Hey, this phone looks nice. You know, I would like to have this phone.
The thought has become a desire. And then, I look at it. Okay, how much has it cost? Can I arrange for it? Let me go and purchase this.
So, it has become an intention. So, there is thought, there is desire, there is intention. And, after that, there is action.
Now, the mind is like Maya’s internal advertising agent. There are advertising agents outside, and the mind is like an internal advertising agent. So, it’s very persuasive.
Now, sometimes, if sometimes you get some unsolicited calls, you know, would you like to purchase this product? Now, if we are talking with somebody, now, salespeople are actually very expert. Now, if you try to tell them, why I don’t need your product, they will convince us that we need their product. You know, how salespeople work is, basically, their expertise is in giving people an illusion of freedom.
While forcing them, while practically compelling them to do what they want them to do. So, for example, an unskilled salesperson will say, will be a car salesman, so, sir, would you like to have a car? Now, an experienced salesperson will say, so, sir, which car would you like to have, the green one or the red one? Now, actually, you know, there seems to be a choice, but in both choices, we are doing what they want us to. So, like that, the mind seems to offer us choices, but the choices are not really choices.
How this works is, say, even alcoholics, if somebody is addicted to alcohol, even they have freedom. The freedom they have is, which brand of alcohol do you drink? They don’t have the freedom whether to drink or not. But they think, I have choice, I won’t drink this, I will drink this.
So, when I talked earlier about thoughts, thinking, feeling and willing. Now, there are researchers who have done lot of studies on how the mind works. So, on average, people were asked, how many food-related decisions do you do every day? So, nowadays, obesity is a big issue for people.
And, yes, to some extent, it is a health issue, sometimes it is a figure issue. According to some surveys, people spend 40 times more money on trying to lose weight than what is required to feed all the hungry people in the world. They are trying various diets, trying taking various medicines and going to doctors and trying all those things.
So, now, obesity is a big issue. Whatever it is, I am not talking about obesity primarily over here, but I am talking about psychology. So, people were asked, how many food-related decisions do you do every day? Most people said, okay, around 15 decisions we do.
But then, actually, when they went over their day with attention, found that on an average, they made 217 decisions about food every day. Now, what does this mean? How can there be 217 decisions? It means, actually, we see so many products. Okay, we are going along the road and we see, okay, this food item, should I take it, should I not take it? Or maybe I can take it later.
Or maybe I can investigate, how much is the calories, how much is the nutrition value. Or even when we are eating some food, okay, how much should I eat it? Should I take this once or should I take a second healthy? I take a second healthy, should I take a half healthy or a full healthy? There are so many decisions that we keep taking which we are not conscious of. And when I am saying we are not conscious of, what does it mean? That it is not that the decisions are not happening.
The decisions are happening below our conscious perception. So, this is how the mind doesn’t just propose to us, the mind doesn’t just have a conversation with us, but actually, the mind sometimes leads us along without our being aware also. Just like, say, sometimes in our computer, in our device, a phone or whatever, we may set a, we may have a particular default setting.
Now, if that default setting is there, then automatically that particular function will happen. Say, if I have made a particular browser as my browser, default browser, and as soon as I click a link, immediately that browser will open. I am not choosing that browser, but it opens automatically.
So, like that, based on how we behave, there are certain default programmes that get set in our mind. And then this growth from thinking, feeling, willing to acting, this happens even without our awareness. It just happens automatically.
It happens instinctively. So, an example for this is that, say, people, some people have decided, you want to diet. No, I don’t want to eat unhealthy food.
I don’t want to become fat. So, researchers have found that if people are conscious about, say, if they have some healthy snack, maybe some salad, some fruit with them, and they have some unhealthy snack, some fatty snack. Now, if they are aware, then they will choose the healthy snack when they feel hungry.
But if they are not aware, that means they are talking on phone with someone, or they are just messaging someone, they are reading something, at that time they feel hungry, even without their awareness, their hand will go to the unhealthy snack. And then they will munch on it. Hey, why did I eat this? So, afterward, they will become aware of it.
अहो मे मोह विदतिम् पश्चता विजदात्मना या कान्ता तसथा कामा कामये न बार्णिशन। The Bhagavatam repeatedly says in the 11th canto, in several pastimes, in the Purvarava pastime, in the Pingala pastime, it says, Oh, what have I done? Why did I do such a thing? How did I get caught in illusion like this? So, this awareness doesn’t come on time, because our mind has got certain default programmes. Default programmes means what? The mind is not only having a one-sided conversation with us, but the conversation is happening and the conclusion is also happening and we are saying yes without realising that I have said yes. Sometimes, you know, some people are talking and then maybe we are unattentive and they say, So? So, you will be coming tomorrow? What? I didn’t promise it.
No, you said you are coming tomorrow. So, we may not be aware of what we are saying because we are distracted. So, like that, the mind often makes us do things without our understanding what we are doing or why we are doing it.
So, how does this happen? There are, you know, when we talk about conditionings, that is the word which is often used, conditioned soul. Now, conditioned soul means what? There is a liberated soul, there is a muktaatma and there is a conditioned soul, that is a baddhaatma. So, the conditioned soul is the soul whose consciousness is set to certain conditions.
Just like in a computer, there might be some settings. So, like that, there are certain settings. So, purification means to change our default settings.
Purification means to change our default definition of happiness. All of us have particular conceptions of what it means to be happy. What is happiness? So, for example, a person may think, okay, maybe taking some fatty snack, some fast food, that is happiness.
And because that is the default definition, even before I deliberate and decide, subconsciously the thinking happens, it goes to feeling, it goes to willing and the action also happens. Now, the whole process of spiritual growth is to actually become self-aware. We want to become conscious of Krishna and we want to become conscious of ourselves.
Now, when we chant the holy names, the recommended process for controlling the mind for this age is mantra meditation. Now, sometimes some devotees say that okay, you know, first I am told that if you are having stress, you chant mantras, you will feel relaxed. But then when I start chanting, my mind wanders here and there.
And then I am told, actually you should endeavour to bring the mind under control. And endeavouring is actually demanding, it is tiring. So, then I am told that I should chant to get relief from stress, but chanting itself causes stress.
Because I have to bring the mind back, bring the mind back, bring the mind back. So, how does chanting actually provide relief? Does chanting itself cause exertion or does it provide relief? Actually, it is both ways. It causes exertion but also provides relief.
To understand this, we can consider the example of say, bodybuilding. Now, if somebody goes and does exercise to lift weights. Now, lifting weights is strenuous.
But, if that exercise improves their health, improves their physique, then during the rest of the day, they are filled with energy. And they are able to function much better. But, lifting the weight itself requires some exertion.
Similarly, when we are chanting, when we are practising mantra meditation, we are actually building our inner muscles. Just like there are physical muscles, when somebody attacks us, or say somebody tries to pull us somewhere where we don’t want to go. If we are strong, we will be able to resist.
So, like that, when the mind pulls us, come on, go in this direction. At that time, if our inner muscles are strong, then we will be able to resist. No, we will be able to resist.
No, I don’t want to do this. So, this means that just as in a workout, there has to be some exertion. Like that, even in the process of meditation, there will be some exertion.
But, the important thing that happens is, when we are chanting, when we are trying to fix the mind on Krishna, just that effort helps us to at least recognise that there is a mind inside me which is troubling me. See, initially, when we understand the basic philosophy, to understand I am not the body is not all that difficult. The body is made of matter and matter is dead.
How can matter be conscious? So, to understand that I am different from the body is not all that difficult. But, to understand that I am different from the mind, it is not all that easy. But, when we try to fix the mind on Krishna, when we try to focus on Krishna, and that time we feel, okay, it’s going here, going here, going there.
At that time, we become aware oh, there is something inside me which is going against my will. There is something inside me which is different from me. So, when we try to concentrate and we are unable to concentrate, that is the time when we understand clearly that there is something inside me which is different from me.
And thus, the process of chanting uses awareness that there is the mind inside me which is different from me. And usually, when the mind starts making… So, this is how during the process of chanting we are developing our inner muscles because we become aware, okay, there is some force inside me which is different from me and I should resist it. Another thing which we can do is that whenever we start feeling like doing something, or we start getting some feelings, if we just verbalise them, either mentally or aloud.
So, sometimes we have some relationship and there is some problem in that relationship and some painful interactions there in that relationship. Now, yes, it is painful, but it is not the end of the world. But what happens is the mind takes that problem, oh, you know, he spoke like this, she spoke like this.
Oh, you know, that hurts so much. People always go to me. No one cares for me.
Oh, life stinks. Life is not worth living. You know, from one sad interaction the mind has taken to life is not worth living.
You know, okay, it’s an incident. Incidents come, incidents go. We don’t have to make the incident into a catastrophe.
But what happens is the mind does like that. And when it does like this, if we are alert, so if we just put it this way, if we just, so the mind is speaking something and instead of just accepting what it is saying, if we simply repeat this, in our mind or aloud, whatever it is. So, if the mind says, come on, you should go and eat some gulab jamuns now.
Okay, then yes, I should go and eat some gulab jamuns. Instead of just accepting what the mind is saying, if I simply just repeat it. Should I eat gulab jamuns? Okay, I can eat, but they are fatty.
Maybe I should eat. Basically, what happens is, if we just can distance ourselves from the mind, instead of simply accepting what it is saying, if whatever we are feeling, we become aware of that, then that awareness is the beginning of transformation. If there is no awareness, there cannot be any transformation also.
Transformation ultimately happens by the process of bhakti. Because when we try to fix the mind on Krishna, as the mind becomes more and more fixed on Krishna, initially it resists. But if we strive diligently, then the mind gradually becomes focused.
And when it becomes focused, then it understands that yes, I am thinking of so many things, but those things really don’t give as much satisfaction as there is satisfaction in thinking about Krishna, in serving Krishna, in remembering Krishna. So, when the mind accepts this, then we will become peaceful, then we will become joyful. … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Should I do this? Should I not do this? It’s not that we give up the world, but we learn how to maturely engage in this world.
So I’ll conclude with one example of how we can function in this world when we are dealing with the mind. So suppose there is a mother, and she has a small baby, small child. And the child is sick.
And the mother takes the child to a doctor. And when she goes to the doctor, the doctor will just smile at the child, maybe give her some sweet or some chocolate. And the doctor will have a discussion with the mother.
And the doctor will tell the mother, OK, you know, she’s got this disease, and she has to take this medicine morning, afternoon, evening. And then after that, the doctor is not going to be all the time. When they go back, it is the mother’s responsibility to ensure that the girl takes the medicine.
The girl may not want to take the medicine, but the mother, she forces. The mother says, oh, hold them out. Take the medicine.
No, you have to force. I don’t want to take the medicine. No, take it.
So like that, now if it is left to the girl itself, small girl, she doesn’t understand why the medicine is important. She will not take it. But the mother makes sure that she takes it.
So in this analogy, there are four things. There is the medicine. There is the girl.
There is the mother. There is the doctor. So the doctor is like our spiritual master, our spiritual guides.
The mother is like the intelligence. The small child, the girl, is like the mind. And the medicine is the process of bhakti yoga.
So when we go to the spiritual master, the spiritual master, the senior devotees, the counsellor, our spiritual guides, they may be loving, caring. They smile at us, talk with us nicely. All that is good.
But you know, you don’t go to a doctor just to get a smile from the doctor. We go to a doctor because we need some cure. So like that, the essence of the relationship, our relationship with devotees, when we come to a temple, when we come to a spiritual association, it is not just a social group where we come and we smile and we talk with each other and we have nice friend circle.
That is good. It is good to have a friend circle. But that is not the primary purpose.
You can get a social group many other places. We go to a doctor not just to feel good because the doctor smiled at us. We go to the doctor because we want to get some medicine.
So like that, there may be a nice community feeling which we get when we come to a spiritual association, which is very good. But there has to be spiritual knowledge that is transmitted. And that is done primarily, you know, the doctor, when they’re doing the diagnosis, they don’t tell it to the girl, they tell it to the mother.
So like that, the spiritual master’s message is primarily given to the intelligence. And we have to use our intelligence to understand the message. And just as the doctor is not going to be there with the girl and the mother constantly, similarly, our spiritual guides are not going to be there with us constantly.
But we with our intelligence assimilate. And then even if the mind is restless, the mind wants to go here, the mind wants to go there, we bring the mind back. We make the mind focus on Krishna.
And when the mind focusses on Krishna, that is like making the girl take the medicine. So even if the mind goes here and there, we don’t have to become discouraged. Because, you know, every mother knows that if she tells her daughter, sit here peacefully.
Now it’s not the nature of small children, they’re not going to sit peacefully. So while doing other work also, the mother keeps an eye, okay, what is the child doing? She goes somewhere in a dangerous thing. Hey, don’t go there, come back, sit here.
So like that, we focus on doing what we want to do in life. But the mind may go here, the mind may go there. If it starts going somewhere else, we bring it back.
So there are two extreme reactions which we have to avoid. One is that we expect that the mind will completely focus totally. That is like expecting a child to behave like an adult.
It’s not going to happen. And the other is, because the mind wanders, so we say the mind will never be controlled. So let it go wherever it wants.
That is also not correct. As a mother, she knows that the child will go here and there, but I’ll bring the child back. Let the, keep the child under some safety, under some discipline.
So like that, when we deal maturely, gradually the mind will become transformed. And thus, we will be able to become more and more productive in all aspects of our life. Being less distracted, we’ll be able to do more in our material life, more in our spiritual life, and move closer and closer to Krishna, which is life’s ultimate perfection.
I’ll summarise. I talked about the topic of taking charge of our inner conversation. Just like some people may, if you want to talk something with them, but they start talking something else and they just take the conversation in a different direction.
So like that, we want to do some things, but the mind starts proposing some other things, and then we get lost. Almost everything that happens, the mind keeps passing comments about it. So one is, it makes problems seem bigger than what they actually are.
By making us resent the reality. So the reality is like a 10 kg weight, but the resentment is like a plus 30 kg weight. That’s how the mind makes problems bigger than what they are.
Life determines our problems, but the mind determines the size of those problems. The other way the mind distracts us is through desires. So for that, I gave the example of a computer screen, where there is one thing we’re reading, but there are other links which might just pop up.
So like that, in the mind, we are trying to focus on one thing, but through the various senses and through the past impressions, many other thoughts, desires are there. And if we focus on them, they grow. They grow from thoughts to desires to intentions to actions.
And if we have done certain things repeatedly, then this growth from thought to action that happens so fast, it happens subconsciously that we don’t even realise it. Just like people, they make over 200 decisions about eating every day, but they think I’ve made only around 15 decisions. Or when they are not thinking, they unthinkingly, they’re not aware of what they’re doing, they unthinkingly choose an unhealthy snack.
So what has happened? Just like in a computer, we may have chosen a particular default programme, which starts off even without our awareness. It just starts off in the background. Like that, we all have default definitions of happiness.
And then we do those activities even without realising what we are doing. So how do we deal with the mind? How do we bring it under control? For that, we need to become self-aware. So I discussed that.
Just trying to focus the mind on Krishna, on his holy names, even if we can’t succeed, just the effort makes us aware that there is something inside which is distracting. And that itself is a realisation that actually the mind is there. Mind is not me.
The mind is different from me. And secondly, even if there’s effort required in bringing the mind back under control, that is an effort which is very productive, like the exercise in weightlifting. It builds our external physical muscles.
Similarly, the effort in focussing the mind on Krishna builds our inner muscles. And that enables us to become more focused in whatever we are doing. And when the mind starts making small things very big, then we can simply, instead of hearing what the mind is saying, in the sense of verbalise it.
Oh, this person spoke so rudely to me. Therefore, I feel life is not worth it. Say, what is this? It’s a small thing.
Why am I making it so big? So by not just acting on what the mind is saying, but evaluating what it is saying, we will be able to see the absurdity of what it is. And the best way to deal with the mind is to actually fix it on Krishna, because that will give it higher happiness. And with that higher happiness, the mind will not be so vulnerable to smaller problems or smaller pleasures.
And I conclude with the example that when we are practising bhakti, it is our intelligence which is vital for the practise of bhakti. Just like a doctor, they smile at the sick girl, but she tells the diagnosis and the prescription to the mother, and the mother is responsible for giving the medicine to the child. So like that, we come to a spiritual association, not just because it is a nice social group where we get like-minded people who smile and who are good.
That is fine, but we come to get spiritual knowledge. And that is what we understand with our intelligence. And when we apply it with our intelligence, then the mind will gradually become purified.
Just as a mother can’t expect the child to be completely silent and focused, at the same time, can’t let the child go anywhere and everywhere. Like that, we can’t unrealistically expect that the mind will be peaceful and focused. At the same time, we can’t let the mind have unlimited freedom.
By realistically bringing it back, if it goes off track and trying to fix it in constructive activity, the mind will become purified. And when it is purified, it can help us to become more and more effective in whatever we do in our life. Thank you very much.
So do we have time for questions? Yes, does anyone have any questions? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah.
Okay, yeah. Yeah, right. So how does this inner conversation happen when we deal with devotees? Sometimes we may think offensively about some devotees.
So is that also an apartheid? No. See, the serious offences are those which are done with malicious intention. That means I don’t like some devotee.
And the devotee has some talent, some ability, some glory. I deliberately try to pull that devotee down. So that which is done with a malicious intention, that is a serious offence.
But apart from that, in the normal course of interaction, different people are basically different. So we may like some people more, even among devotees. Some devotees we may get along better with.
Some devotees we may not get along so well with. That is fine. So we can have different levels of intimacy with different devotees.
So sometimes some devotees may behave in such a way also that we may feel irritated. So if it’s at the level of the thoughts, it’s not really an offence. It’s just something which you have to be cautious about.
Now, if we repeatedly think negatively about some devotee, oh, he’s like that, she’s like that, always thinking like that, and we find that it’s becoming a habitual pattern, then it is said the thought is the ancestor to the deed. If you’re thinking negatively about someone, eventually that will come out in our speech or in our actions. So to avoid that, if our mind is repeatedly making negative comments about some devotee, it is better to get a fresh perspective of that devotee.
Maybe go to some other devotees who appreciate that devotee. And then try to understand the positives of that devotee. Then, oh, I used to think he’s like this, but no, I didn’t know doing this also and this also.
So when we get that positive perspective, then that negative comment that comes along, we can counter it. And that way, we can avoid committing offences. Does that address your question? Thank you.
Great question. Yes, sir. Yeah, please.
Great question. I have two questions. The first one is that, I was going to ask that devil as part of my life.
Okay. And I wanted to find out. Okay.
Okay. So question is, if I have hurt someone a long time ago, and the fact that I spoke very harshly, that hurts me now. So what can we do? There are two different things.
There is learning from the past, and there is lamenting about the past. Now, lamenting about the past actually does not do anything constructive. Now, we all have committed mistakes in our lives.
And if we just lament, oh, why did I do that? Why did I do that? Why didn’t I do that? Then that simply dissipates our energy. And that is just another trick of the mind. But how is it a trick of the mind? Because in the present, I can do something constructive.
But if I keep thinking about the negative thing that I did in the past, I can’t focus on doing something constructive right now. So lamenting means we are just thinking about it without thinking about anything practical that we can do. So if the mind is in control, then we lament.
And this is actually, among the three modes, it is the mode of ignorance, tamoguna. But we can learn from the past, and we can also rectify to some extent for what we have done. That requires us to be in a calm, clear disposition.
In the Bhagavad Gita, it’s termed in the mode of goodness, sattvaguna. At that time, we think, okay, I spoke this, and why can’t I speak like that? Maybe something provoked me because of which I spoke like that. Usually, when we have done some, we have spoken or acted in a hurting way to others, the first thing we should do is apologise.
And apologise sincerely, genuinely. And then, if some way we can rectify, that’s the second thing, we should rectify. That means, if by our words, not only I didn’t hurt, somebody else has got some misconception about them, then we can try to clarify those misconceptions.
Or we can use some gift or something like that. It’s not just in words, but it’s also in actions, to minimise or counter the bad consequences of whatever happened. And third is correct.
Correct means not just, I resolve, I will not do that, but try to think of the situation over there, and what made me do that at that time. If I just say, oh, I just lost my temper and spoke, okay, losing my temper is fine, but what are the circumstances that caused me to lose my temper? If I evaluate that situation, then if we understand, see, if I’m going on a road, and I know that there is a pothole on the road, I don’t think in America you have potholes. In India, on the roads, often potholes are there.
So there’s a pothole on the road. If I know in advance there’s a pothole over there, then I’ll take my car on the side so that I don’t get a bump. So like that, in the road of our life, also sometimes we hit potholes.
So when we can find out, okay, these are certain situations when I tend to become a little testy, I tend to become a little touchy, grouchy, irritable, then we should ourselves be able to withdraw from that situation. Okay, I will not have any further discussion right now. I need to cool down.
I need to calm down. So if we analyse and learn that way, then we will not only just, just a resolution, I will not speak like this, that is not enough. Trying to understand what made me speak like this and what were the circumstances under which I was and trying to avoid that kind of pressure situations or preparing to deal with those pressure situations that can help us to actually avoid repeating this.
And all this becomes easier when we have spiritual strength. When we practise bhakti, then rather than lamenting, letting the mind go here and there and letting the mind take us here and there, we are able to actually focus calmly and think, should I do this? How can I do this? And how I can improve myself? So essentially, by practising bhakti, we can actually move towards rectifying whatever mistakes we have done in the most effective way, by apologising, rectifying the consequences and correcting ourselves. And regarding the second question of, now if many people have done a lot of things for us, how can we reciprocate with them? Yes, broadly speaking, we have to understand that we have two kinds of relationships.
We have horizontal relationship with others in this world and we have a vertical relationship with Krishna, with God. And both these relationships are important. Now, a mother, when a child is born, she feeds her breast milk to the child.
It’s a very intimate way of expressing love. At the same time, if you think a little more deeply, it’s not that the mother does anything special to manufacture the breast milk at that time. The same God, who sent the child into her womb, also sent milk in her breast for that child.
So whatever, whoever is doing for us, it is ultimately God doing for us through them. So the mother is giving the breast milk, but it is Krishna who is giving the breast milk to the child, to the mother. There’s that famous prayer, Tomeva Matacha Pita Tomeva, Tomeva Mandushya Sakha Tomeva, Tomeva Vidya Dravida Tomeva, Tomeva Sarvam Hama Deva Deva.
My dear Lord, you are my mother, you are my father, you are my friend, you are my brother, you are my wealth, you are my knowledge, you are my everything, oh Lord. Now, what does this mean? This does not mean that the mother and the father themselves are God. No, it means that God is acting through all these people.
So at one level, if somebody has done something for them, we should try to reciprocate according to our capacity. Now, when we are young, we’re just building our career, we may not have much capacity to reciprocate. But as we grow, if we are aware of those debts, we can reciprocate.
At a deeper level, if we develop our vertical relationship with Krishna, then actually speaking, we are watering the root of the tree. So all living beings are like leaves and flowers and fruits on the tree of life. And Krishna is the root.
So when we become devoted to Krishna, you know, whatever bhakti we perform, those credits don’t come to us alone. They go to all those whom we are connected with, our loved ones. And thus, they are also benefited.
And not only indirectly benefited through our practise of bhakti, but actually, when we practise bhakti, we also become more mature, more calm, more focused, less self-centred. And then we can also act in ways which are more beneficial for others. So even if we presently don’t have the capacity to reciprocate with others, recognising that we are having multiple relationships and developing our vertical relationship with Krishna can help us to become more and more a person who is more capable of reciprocating with others more effectively in future.
Does that answer your question? Thank you. So, yes. Yes? Right.
You can speak. I can do it. Thank you, Swamiji.
Swamiji, my question is that when we take a decision from inside, if we’re deciding on something, and we get a decision from inside, how do we decide that whether this is a right or a wrong decision was decided for us? Okay. Whether we can make the right decision on it? Yeah. So when we get a decision from inside, how do we know whether it is the mind’s decision or the intelligence decision? Yes.
Usually, anything which is short-term, impulsive, just do it, that sort of thing, that comes from the mind. Now, things which are more long-term, more mature, they come from the intelligence. So at the moment, it may be difficult to decide.
So usually, when we get a decision from within, it is safe to press a pause button. When we get a decision, no need to act on it immediately. Because at that time, when something comes from within, we get a very strong force.
I want to do it right. But at that time, we’re not able to evaluate. So just press a pause button, and then, maybe after 24 hours or after some time, we look back at the decision.
Because whenever any idea comes within us, now, the ideas can be good also, but when the idea comes, at that time, all our thoughts are about how good the idea is. Because at that time, it’s my idea which has come. So the creativity has come, and because of that, the objectivity is less.
But if we wait for some time, then the creative excitement has gone down, and then the objective evaluation becomes possible. So if we wait for some time, and then re-evaluate whatever the decision was, then we’ll be able to make out, is this a sound decision, or is it just a feeling? And if it’s a major decision, then we can also, it is good to write it down. This is what I think I’m thinking of doing.
Should I do it? And we write it down. When we write down the pros, the cons, why I feel I should do it, why I should not do it, then when we write things down, when it comes to major decision, that is like taking a snapshot of our mind. The mind has so many thoughts, and as long as they’re just going on and on inside, we get congested inside, we are not able to decide.
But when we get them outside, then that distance between us and the thoughts brings more objectivity, and we can evaluate. And then if it’s a major decision, then we can wait for some time, and look at our thoughts over a period of time. Maybe after one week, after one month, after two months, three months.
If the same kind of thoughts are remaining, then that means this is not just a passing passion of the mind. Rather, it is a sustained aspiration, sustained interest, sustained inclination that I have. And then if the same pattern continues consistently, then it is good to do that.
And most importantly, we always need some person, some other person who can give us a trustworthy feedback. So if we have a spiritual master or spiritual guides, who are senior devotees, from whom, we may not have many guides like that, even if we have one or two, whom we can consult before making a major decision. Then we will be in a safer situation.
See, for most people, we evaluate them through our mind. That means, if somebody tells me, do something, then immediately we think through our mind, why does this person want me to do this? What are they going to get through it? So we evaluate everyone through our mind. But if we have even one trustworthy guide, then through whom we evaluate the mind.
So the mind comes between us and the world, but our spiritual master comes between us and the mind and tells us, okay, this is the mind. I’m not saying every idea that comes from within is bad, but major life decisions cannot be taken just that, okay, I feel like doing this. This is what I got the decision from within.
There has to be a process of evaluation. So first is a pause button and then evaluate after some time. If it’s a longer, major decision, then write it down and keep reviewing whether our feelings stay the same, whether that inner feeling stays the same over a long period of time.
And also consult someone trustworthy who can help us to evaluate in a more objective way, whatever that decision has come. And that way we can move forward. So in general, if some inner thought is coming which is against the principles of scripture, Guru Sadhu Shastra, then that is actually illusion.
Once, in the early days of our movie, 1966-67, one young girl came to Prabhupada and said, Prabhupada, you came in my dream and you told me to take LSD. So Prabhupada said, that was not me, that was maya in my dress. So if some decision we are getting which is against Guru Sadhu Shastra, then it’s very clear we should not do it.
That is simply the mind speaking. But many decisions may not be so easily clear. So that’s why we can have this basically pausing and evaluating.
That way we can understand which is the voice of the mind and which is the voice of the intelligence. Does it answer your question? Thank you. Great, Krishna.
Can we stop here? I just want to ask, is the past karma responsible for the mind’s behaviour? Yes, of course. I explained that just as we all have conditionings, so the mind also has its conditionings. That means that I explained about the programmes, there are certain default programmes, which just work automatically.
So if I have repeatedly visited a particular website, then if I say I visited newyorktimes.com, then as soon as I start N, the Google autocomplete will do New York Times. Now what has happened? That is simply based on the record of what I have done in the past. So like that, based on what we have done in the past in this life or in a previous life, the mind has developed certain tendencies.
And those tendencies are like our default programmes. Now it is not that all default programmes are necessarily bad. It’s like there is a swabhava, there is a brahmana swabhava, there is a kshatriya swabhava, there is a vaisya swabhava, there are different swabhavas.
And these are not something which we have to reject. But these are something which we have to dovetail. So some people may be more intellectual, some people may be more managerial.
That is fine. So whatever is our nature, that doesn’t mean we reject what is our nature. Rather we are aware of it and we channel it.
So our past impressions, our past karma does create certain patterns of thinking for us. And some patterns of thinking are harmonisable with our higher purposes of life. And then we channel them.
Some patterns of thinking may be unhealthy, they may be anti-devotional, there may be more. And those we have to fight against. But our past karma, it doesn’t do one thing.
It can never force us to do anything. See the mind can only impel. It can’t compel.
Impel means it pushes us to do this. But we can push back. It doesn’t force us to do it.
So nobody can say that, I can say because of my past karma, I am short tempered. But I cannot say because of my past karma, I will shout at anyone I meet. No, that short temperedness may be there.
But still I also have the capacity to control myself. So our past karma can explain our inclinations. But it doesn’t rationalise our actions.
We have free will and we are expected to act responsibly according to our free will. But our past karma can help us understand what are the obstacles that I am going to face. And then we can prepare better to deal with those obstacles.
Does it answer your question? So thank you very much. Thank you Maharaj for joining today for the Monks Podcast.