The Monk’s Podcast 40 with Vedasara Prabhu – Sharing spirituality in American colleges

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Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Hare Krishna, Veth Satru. Welcome to the Monks Podcast. It's a pleasure to have you here.

So, you know, when I came to Atlanta last time, I saw how actively you were involved in college outreach. In fact, among all the temples in the West that I have seen, not many are able to do college outreach much. And even when they do, it is very rarely that the top leaders are, the top leader is highly invested in that.

It is usually some devotees doing it and the leadership supports it. So because in some ways, we are the temple president, and that also takes a lot of time and energy. So I wanted to know, how did you become so inspired to start doing college outreach? Thank you for giving me this great opportunity to have your association and have this beautiful dialogue.

I'm honored to be here and grateful for the invite. So for me, when I study Srila Prabhupada's books, I find a very common emphasis that he makes. And even his spiritual master, I found that there was a tremendous amount of emphasis in somehow presenting Krishna consciousness to the younger generation, because they see that as the future leaders of society.

And it seemed like Srila Prabhupada and his spiritual master, they always were thinking about the future of the Krishna consciousness movement as they were executing their daily spiritual and managerial activities. So my understanding of Srila Prabhupada's teachings in conclusion is that he would tremendously be happy and content if devotees were actually going out and reaching out to young people, the colleges, the universities. And I know in Mayapur, for example, Bhakta Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Thakur Srila Prabhupada, he established a school.

It's called the Bhakti Vinod Institute. There are hundreds and hundreds of students going to that school. And his vision was really simple, that if these young people take up Krishna consciousness, if there is any way Krishna consciousness can be part of the formative years of education, then there is a great hope for society.

So for me, being in America, seeing the situation of American temples, I find it that somewhere in there, we are perhaps for a time being, due to other immediate needs, we have kind of shelved this dream and vision of Srila Prabhupada of reaching out to Americans and reaching out to young Americans and giving them these deep cultural and spiritual values that come from the Srimad Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam and other Vedic literatures. So for me, it is my passion that this is what Srila Prabhupada wanted and I want to do whatever it takes to dedicate this life to reaching out to young American boys and girls. So he is the source of my inspiration.

Yes, that's wonderful, Rahul. Actually, what you say also resonates with me. I was introduced to Krishna Bhakti in Pune and Pune was probably at least the Indian, if not the world leader in college outreach.

And I saw that Pune, for a long time, Pune, we had a small temple, it was not even a temple, it was just like a structure, a home adapted into a temple. And most centers, their focus is always on building a new temple. But Pune delayed it for a significant time and focused on college outreach.

And now that has become a model for many other centers in India. And eventually, Pune has also got a beautiful temple. But then along with the temple, there is also a community that came up.

So in about two decades of college outreach. So in some ways, it requires a greater amount of investment of time, energy, resources to do college outreach. And sometimes we get caught in areas which, which say, give quick returns.

If you build temples, we get cultural appreciation from people, we get financial contribution. And there's also a tangible sense of achievement that can be displayed. So we build this temple.

So in college outreach, all these don't come. But eventually, when we see dedicated devotees coming up, there are few young, energetic, thoughtful, dedicated devotees, I think there are few things as fulfilling as that, as getting a soul like that, helping them come to Krishna's lotus feet. So you also, now I know to some extent the challenges that are there in college outreach in India, and I'm getting some sense when I've spent last four or five years extensively in America.

But maybe you could tell me about once you got inspired to do college outreach, what were the challenges that you faced? And how did you deal with them? I would say the biggest challenge is to actually go out and do it. There is, there is actually a feeling within the society sometimes we feel, you know, we always want the low hanging fruits. You know, you invest time in Bhakti Riksha, you invest time in the Indian community.

In North America, the return on investment is very high and very quick, as you rightfully point out. Because Indian people are just naturally spiritually inclined. So there is not a need for a very strategic planned effort.

But in terms of the Western outreach, it takes a lot of effort. So that is automatically a scary thought, because to make an American devotee of Krishna, sometimes it can take months, years. And the investment is very high, because the background they come from, it requires a lot of nurturing, a lot of nurturing of the heart, and giving them a lot of time to bring out whatever impurities are there in their minds, their attachments, their different degrees of material desires that they have been cultivating since a very young, in their childhood days.

So those are the bigger challenges. And institutionally, I don't feel that ISKCON will stop anybody from reaching out to Western kids, colleges. And so I don't feel there is a challenge from the institution.

In fact, they're very happy if we are able to bring young people. In the last 12 years in Atlanta, we have successfully made 14 to 15 American boys and girls into devotees. You know, some of them are top book distributors in North America.

And of course, we have improvised our strategy now to make a systematic cultivation, where they will be cultivated almost throughout their life to have deep, meaningful spiritual relationships, that no matter where they go, they will always have somebody to fall back on, so that can hold them, can nurture them, and they can build them back up. Because sometimes it's difficult to understand and deal with their psychology because of our individual programming that we grew up with. So that disparity in cultural programming causes us sometimes to lose people even after they get initiated, because there has to be a continuity of cultivating that spiritual spark within their hearts.

So challenges is ourselves. Institutionally, I don't see any obstacles. They're always so eager to support in any way possible.

Yeah, that's a remarkably positive way of looking at things. Thank you. Now, whatever college outreach I have seen, either in India or the West, I feel that there are two, three major challenges.

Maybe you could also speak on this. Say the first is that students are in a college temporarily as compared to the congregation, unless of course, they have a job transfer and they go somewhere else. Usually, if they come to a place, they are there for a long run.

So after and depending on which degree they are in, if they are three, four years or something, postgrad, maybe only two years, and then they leave. So I find that what you mentioned, cultivating deep relationships, that is critical during the time that we have with them. And also, I see some other places where devotees are doing college outreach.

But then often people graduate and then they go to various places. It requires a extraordinarily high level of spiritual commitment to be developed among those students for them to either decide to become full time devotees, which I have seen in the West is extremely rare. And in India also, it is, we probably went through a phase where we had a lot of full time Ramacharis becoming, but it's not so much.

It's decreasing now significantly. So if that is not going to happen, then usually, it works only if there are some good career opportunities available in the city in which the preaching is happening, or the city of the parent center. Say for example, people can come to Pune or Mumbai, because they can get the good career opportunities.

Otherwise, it just, I have seen some places where devotees are doing college outreach for years, and good number of people come for the programs. But it's like flowing water, you're coming into a pipe from one side going out from the other side. So what is, how do you deal with this challenge of college outreach of the engagement of the students? I mean, that is definitely a challenge.

But I still strongly feel that if there is a deep bond that is created, a spiritual bond between, say, the teacher and the college students, then obviously, when they're making life decisions, they're going to consult you. If you have a relationship, they will ask you, what do you feel? What do you think I should do? And then you get an opportunity to navigate their life in a very balanced manner to make sure that they have a material career. At the same time, the spiritual life is not sacrifice.

So many of the kids who graduated from our Bhakti Yoga Club at Georgia Tech, they're working in different companies at Microsoft, Facebook, you know, Google. They're working in different parts of the world, but we're still in touch. We meet once a year.

We do get together, we have WhatsApp groups, technology has enabled us to keep in touch. And a lot of the times, those kids, we try to encourage them to stay in Atlanta and participate in growing this Bhakti community. Like right now, we have six boys and girls who graduated from Georgia Tech and UGA, who are giving their full time.

I'm talking masters and PhD students from Georgia Tech, who are doing full time service. All we ask is, you can work your whole life. Just give one year to service to this mission of Bhakti and see how it works for you.

They don't immediately have to get a job. They can take a time off and get a little taste. The degree is not going anywhere.

So we encourage them to, you know, give it six months, give it a year. So right now, we have six boys and girls who are doing full time sadhana, full time service, in a separate location that is strictly just meant for them. So, you know, for us, we don't reach out to college kids to make them join the brahmacharya ashram, because the cultural disparity between the temples that we have in North America, and these American kids, there's a huge gap.

Because most of our temples are filled with Indian brahmacharis who are born and raised in India, with different cultural backgrounds, different psychology, different tastes. And so we try not to mix the two, we want to naturally let them grow and flourish. And then whenever they want to move, they can move.

But there is not an imposition, there's not a legislation, there's not a system where they actually join the brahmacharya ashram. We just want them to practice bhakti life. Okay, so they chant 16 rounds.

And it's all done through a dialectic process. It's not that we legislate, this is what you should do. We always have a debate and open discussion about it.

So they can actually choose and make their own decisions. We don't want to make any decisions for them. You know, I'll come back to this point.

This is a very important point. But just let's maybe get to some specifics. So maybe you can, which all colleges you are doing outreach in? Because I believe Georgia Tech is one of the most prominent universities in America.

So maybe which all colleges you're doing outreach and for how many years? What is the nature of the once a week program? Maybe we can start with some specifics. We currently are very active at Georgia Tech, University of Georgia, Kennesaw State, Emory University, Georgia State University. And we also have some presence at Agnes Scott, which is an all girls college.

All girls college? All girls colleges. So then you go there or you send somebody else there on your behalf? No, no, I go. I take some of my other senior girls students to assist.

So we are a big family. So students from Georgia Tech will go to other universities, other university students will go. So we all work together as a team.

This is not a one man show, although there is no temple devotees who are involved. I'm the only temple devotee who's involved, but the whole thing is operated and managed by the college students. So and then we have it in Tennessee as well.

We have it in Middle Tennessee State University, which is the biggest university in Tennessee. We have a very, very active club there. And we have some roots in Alabama as well.

University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. We have a club there. And there's a group of Marines who are heading up that club.

And it's really nice. So that means totally six or seven universities? Yes. So then you physically go and do programs every week there or these are more of course, for the pandemic, they're virtual, digital, but how are you managing all these programs? So, you know, five days a week, I'm in five different universities in the evenings.

And then I also have senior students who are, you know, following strictly the four regulative principles chanting 16 rounds. We don't say 16 rounds, we say two hours of meditation, japa meditation. Okay.

So once they're at that stage, then we send them out. And they go and lead the yoga sessions and the discussions. Okay.

So when you speak, do primarily yoga exercises and then bring them to spiritual philosophy? Or how is the bridge that you build between them and us? So the system is, we do a lot of yoga asanas, because the yoga asanas are very important for breaking down their big massive identities, the false identities, the false egos, you know, they're so strong. And so when you do this very intensive yoga asanas, they start to realize the mortality aspect of their existence. How does that happen through yoga asanas? Because when you're doing intense yoga asanas, just because you have a strong physique doesn't mean you're going to be able to do the pose.

So it requires you to really battle with your body and your mind and you start to realize, oh my God, I'm actually not that strong or that flexible or all that. Because we create an image of ourselves, of who we are, what we look like, what we're able to do and what we're not able to do. And based on that, we project it on the world.

And we are always trying to see how to attract the opposite sex. So we pump ourselves up and our identities. And then when you come into the yoga class, you start to realize you can't even touch your toes.

So you're not all that strong and all that flexible and all this image. So all these things that they cannot do, it starts to break down, physically breaking down their false identity. And this yoga is tremendously powerful.

So the yoga poses take care of their false ego identity. Where I never thought of it that way. So they may come to yoga, do yoga asanas because they just want to feel or look fitter and more attractive, as you said, to increase their attractiveness for the opposite sex.

So then the yoga you do is also quite intensive, isn't it? Yoga asanas are not easy. You'll break into a good sweat. And if your body is not fit, you're going to feel it.

You're going to see the fragility, the mortality of this human body. You're going to put yourself on some realistic image of yourself instead of an inflated image that you have created of yourself or that others have given you. And then when physically you're broken down, not breaking down, but you see that you have some limitations, material limitations.

And in one sense, if you are able to do those yoga asanas easily, then you have earned their respect in an area which they respect. Is it in a sense that also increases your credibility? True. That is important.

That is important. And your knowledge of how to do it right. And the interesting thing is that, you know, in my classes, you will see it's almost 50-50 boys and girls.

Normally in yoga, it's mostly girls. So that's the uniqueness of how we approach the yoga. Because the girls are just naturally so flexible.

So we have where it's almost 50% or more boys. So there is also a level of competition within themselves. And that creates a level of healthy dialogue.

Because after every yoga session, we're doing a pranayama breath work, understanding the importance of breath. You know, understanding the importance of prana, it's actually a spiritual philosophy. Dhruva Maharaj is very clearly talking about in Srimad Bhagavatam, so to understand the breath, the importance of breath, and our connectivity with the breath, and have this universe.

You know, we exhale carbon dioxide, and the trees absorb it. And the trees give out oxygen, and we absorb it. So there is a universal connectivity that we have.

So once they understand that, it's a format for them to connect with other beings on this planet, that it's not self-centered. It's not just about them, that they actually have a relationship with nature. So to understand the asanas, and then the pranayama, and then we have, we break down into groups of fours and fives and sixes, and we give them questions.

We don't answer any questions, because that's not our job. Now, wait a minute, Dhruva, we'll come to this point. So let's talk about yoga a little bit more.

Okay. I have spoken at yoga centers in America, we also brought some, I was a part of a tour guide for some yoga groups tours to India. Now, I see it's mostly women.

So are you saying that it's because of the more, like power intensive kind of yoga that you do that you're also able to attract boys? And also the fact that we have a dialogue. So are you saying that boys like to discuss more than girls? Or how is that related? So when you have, for example, when we have a yoga asana, not just geared towards girls, we gear towards boys. Boys have certain flexibilities in certain parts of their body and other parts are not as flexible.

So when you have boys and girls, there's a very healthy competition. And we also keep the yoga asanas catering to boys, not just girls. Okay, makes sense.

There's two different things. And so that enables us to have a pretty balanced gender balance. That's, that's very interesting thing, because that is a major challenge I have seen for people doing yoga asanas, using yoga as a means to reach out to people.

And second thing is that, in one sense, we know that anybody who has basic science education knows about carbon dioxide and oxygen, but connecting that with prana and using it to foster our interdependent nature of our existence. That's, that's a simple but sublime thought. And now when we do this, there is, there is, it seems that in our tradition in the past, yoga was a natural way to reach to bhakti.

Because even if you see, consider Prema Pradeep and other books by Bhaktivinoda Thakur, he talks about bhakti yogis who are also yogis. He mentions that. But somehow within our movement, to a large extent, till recently, we had neglected yoga as largely simply being a physical exercise with nothing to do with spirituality.

So, do you agree with this differentiation? What are your thoughts about this? And what has changed because of which now there is more and more openness to, more and more devotees are trying to connect with yoga and then use yoga as a way to connect people with Krishna? Sometimes, you know, all young religious institutions, we go from, with the pendulum swings from one side to the other. And it takes quite some time to come to the center. Not that that should be the solution.

And I feel that individual, individuality in our movement is sometimes, I don't want to say suppressed, because we are programmed to do things a certain way. When I feel when devotees are given that freedom of expression, to express the essential principles of bhakti in whatever way they want to utilize it, to reach more hearts and bring them closer to the practice of bhakti. Then I think there'll be more growth.

And I think that is what's happening in ISKCON nowadays. The acceptance is more. We are trying to be more inclusive.

At some point, we were extremely exclusive. Our language is shifting. Our language is changing.

I have seen that devotees are extremely expert because they worship in Krishna. And so, given devotees the freedom to express and figure out how to bring more people to practice bhakti, it's going to expand. And that is what is happening worldwide right now.

And we should not suppress the individual tendencies and propensities that devotees have different inclinations. It's remarkable that you're saying this, that just yesterday, actually, I had a discussion with Madhavanand Prabhu, you know, from Kurukshetra. So our topic of discussion was this itself, nourishing individuality within a bhakti institution.

And he made some very striking points. He said that the way he sees how Prabhupada spread the movement. He said that if I read Lila Amrit, I see four things, love, trust, responsibility, and empowerment.

So I'd never thought of Prabhupada's outreach in this way. But especially if you see the second volume of Lila Amrit, where ISKCON has not yet become a very big organization, then Prabhupada has loving dealings with people and then he trusted them. And then he gave them responsibility to go and do this, go and start a center there, do this, do that.

And then he empowered them. So I think this individuality is very important. And this, when I was there, also, I noticed that you have been able to empower young students also, in very special ways.

One of the things which I noticed distinctively was your food outreach. So would you like to speak something about that? How I've seen students take up responsibilities? Maybe you could speak something or were you going on some other thought? Yeah, sure, sure. We can talk about it.

Prabhupada, in my understanding, you know, I have very limited understanding. I have never met him personally. Just, you know, I met him through his disciples.

And so one thing I've noticed, that is a very simple process that Srila Prabhupada had. If you have a relationship, you build a really genuine relationship of concern, not a superficial relationship. He actually, Prabhupada actually had relationships with these people.

He actually did Guhyamakirti Prachati with them. He actually wanted to know what was in their minds and what was in their hearts. He left the room completely open for dialogue, any questions you could ask.

And I felt that creating that safe zone is what Srila Prabhupada did. He created a safe zone, where you can come in and feel safe. So in our Bhakti Yoga clubs, it is very clear, we are creating a safe zone for you to be you and express yourselves and be accepted and respected.

And so this is what I learned from Prabhupada. Sorry if I may interrupt you a little bit. Please.

Quite a radical concept that Prabhupada created a safe zone. In fact, from what I have seen, many devotees or many new people who come to our temples, they often feel very strongly judged and found inadequate. Don't do this, don't do that, that is wrong.

So both in terms of philosophy, this understanding is wrong, this teacher is wrong, or this way of doing this particular practice is wrong. So in fact, how do you, can you explain how do you feel that Prabhupada created a safe zone? And if that were the case, many of our temples seem to be like not safe zones, but very, you could say judgment zones. So what are your thoughts about this? Well, it is a fact.

If someone does not feel safe, they're not going to be there for very long. And the minute they leave that place, they will never come back. So that is a very clear indicator that Srila Prabhupada created a safe zone.

You're saying the very fact that people stayed on. Yes. Indicated, okay.

His whole demeanor, the way he communicated, the way he really made them feel. So for me, creating a safe zone for the college kids is my first principle. And that principle is really simple.

There is no judgment, whatever background you come from, whatever is in your mind, and we maintain confidentiality. It's really simple. So you don't, now, however they may dress, however, say if the boys and girls are coming together and that they have some relationship with each other, even all this, you don't judge? There's no judgment.

I think when you create a safe zone, that means there is no judgment and there is, you're maintaining confidentiality. Whatever they tell you, you actually, you don't go and tell the whole world, you don't snitch. So for us, when we create a safe zone, and that safe zone, just by creating that safe zone and you present some questions for them to have a dialogue about, it gives them their sense of individuality being expressed.

And then through the expression of individuality, then comes this feeling of empowerment. They feel a sense of belonging and then they take up responsibilities to see how they can serve you. I feel safe here.

What can I do to serve this purpose that you are working with? And so for me, having a safe zone is what Srila Prabhupada did. And then Prabhupada heard their opinions. I see how Prabhupada had dialogue with his disciples.

He would ask them questions. What do you think about this? Who is this Socrates? What is the theory of Plato? Prabhupada was learning. And the devotees were sharing, they felt so, they felt validated.

If you feel validated, you would want to be connected to that person. And you would want to actually work with that person for that vision. So I think a key component in the way we run things, or I learned from Srila Prabhupada's teachings, is that there is a lot of beautiful communication.

It wasn't a top-down management. Prabhupada started with tremendous amount of compassion, seeking advice, seeking help, and asking for help, doing things personally while they were observing him do it. Just like our Bhakti Yoga Club here did not grow, I didn't have four or five devotees to help it grow.

I would just cook some khichri, teach a class, have these discussions. The kids would inquire, where do you get the food from? How do you make the food? I would share this with them. Can I come and join you and help you cook? Sure.

They come in and help. Just as Prabhupada started, if we just follow the simple principles that Prabhupada operated when he started the Krishna Conscious Movement, because the way he acted was… If I understand right, you're saying that it's primarily a human connection. And I was talking with Kalak and Prabhu maybe a month or so ago.

So he made a very striking point that in, say, ISKCON in the 1960s, when we were still small, and ISKCON 1970s, there's significant difference because we had become much bigger. And in our movement, we have to some extent normalized or standardized ISKCON in the 1970s, where there are big projects and Prabhupada was a remote figure. Most of the devotees were introduced in the 1970s.

They hardly had any personal association with Prabhupada. So he said that what we are trying to do is reproduce the atmosphere of ISKCON in the 1960s, where, as you said, very close bonding among Prabhupada and his people who were coming, who eventually became his disciples. And now I can think of incidents where Prabhupada was so non-judgmental, like Shamsundar Prabhu was smoking while carving Jagannath Deities and Prabhupada didn't criticize him.

Or I think, who was that? Jadurani, she was actually smoking while cooking for the wedding of Janaki and Mukunda Maharaj, at that time Mukunda Prabhu. So Prabhupada was quite non-judgmental. So this is amazing.

So it means we can say there are many different aspects of Prabhupada also. And if we normalize the aspect of Prabhupada where he is, say, calling people fools and rascals, then we are actually doing a, we are having a very one-sided picture of Prabhupada. Isn't it? I think, I think that there is a, sometimes there is a little disconnect with who Srila Prabhupada was as a person, his behavior, his mood, his exchanges with others, and what Srila Prabhupada said in the books and the classes.

Because when you see the way he is dealing with people, I mean, it's phenomenal. It's so personal. It's straight out of the spiritual world, his dealings.

So instead of looking at all the books, because we have so much read Prabhupada's books, read Prabhupada's books, why not try to understand what his mood was? For me, I understand the books are his spiritual ecstasies. Before the ecstasy there is the person has a certain mood, and we operate within that certain mood. And Prabhupada had a certain mood.

He had the mood that he brought, is a transcendental mood of loving relationships. So if we want to have relationships, where is the question of judgment? And Prabhupada showed it, as he beautifully explained. That is what I take from Prabhupada.

My inspiration is that don't try to reinvent. I don't have a unique system of reaching out to college students. I see what Prabhupada had done when he started ISKCON.

I do the same thing. Now, you look at, we're feeding three, four hundred homeless people every single day. Because everyone that comes in and joins… Can you pause? Can you explain how you do this? This is a remarkable program that I saw.

Yes. So the thing is, people naturally want to do Seva. We know from Shilpa Prabhupada's books that natural inclination of the living entity is to do Seva.

You know, when you say that… But we take that inclination… Just want to start an interview. You know, I never thought of it this way, that's just when you're speaking it. In the Western world, there's a tendency for activism.

And actually activism is a form of Seva. Isn't it? You're an activist for environmental cause or for a say racial emancipation cause or whatever. It's actually you're doing, contributing to something bigger than yourself.

And that's the essence of Seva. So I think you are stimulating a lot of thoughts within me also. Thank you.

So I've seen that in the West. Thank you. I think in the West, youth have a lot of activism, eagerness for activism.

I don't see that so much in Indian youth. Because I think Indian youth are still very highly concerned about their career. And it's almost like horses focused on one vision with blinders on, no minimizing them.

I mean, I was born and brought up in India and extremely dedicated, extremely hardworking. But it is relatively speaking, I feel the percentage of youth who are activists, I've seen it is significant in American colleges. It may be there in India, but I haven't encountered it to that proportion.

Any thoughts on this? Or how you channel this activist tendency? I'm not, I just know very clearly, talking to the students, they want to do something, something big. They want to, they want to make a change in the world, because the whole world tells them that they're going to change the world. When you go to Georgia Tech, it's very clear what they tell you.

You are the next leader of this world. You're going to create, you know, phenomenal technology in this world that the whole world is going to utilize. You are capable of this.

So this image that they have, this global image they have of how they're going to change the world. So that's cooking in their brains. Two years, four years, six years, it's cooking in their brains.

So how do we capitalize on that? And once they, once they see that, you know, you're going to serve someone. There's very famous Bob Dylan songs and Beatles songs. You're going to have to serve somebody.

So they know that. Songs like that? Yes, very famous. One of the, one of the students told me, there's a beautiful song by Bob Dylan, you know, you're going to have to serve somebody.

It may be God or it may be the devil, but you're going to have to serve somebody. There's some beautiful songs like that. So, so my point is take that dream that they have and we start small.

So we created this Food for Lives to engage the children, because if they're doing service, then there is an internal transformation that's happening within themselves. Discussion, philosophical discussion is an intellectual stimulation, but there is a need for stimulation in the heart. And when these boys and girls, they go out every single day of their lives, they take turns.

They go down to Atlanta downtown and serve food, prashadam to the homeless people. There is a major transaction that is happening. There's a psychological transaction.

There's a physiological transaction. And there's a spiritual transaction that is happening. Because first of all, they're giving them prashadam.

Second of all, when they give this prashadam, serve it out, hand serve it out to the homeless people, they have an image they have acquired while in Georgia Tech, they have to be the best. So that image that they have, sometimes it becomes a little too much. And they get extremely stressed out.

And sometimes they may even have depression. Georgia Tech has a pretty, you know, pretty decent reputation as being a very intense school. And then sometimes the kids can't handle it and they take their own lives, because of stress and anxiety, because it's an elite school.

So once they come out to serve the homeless people, guess what, they have a whole new perspective in their lives. They see a homeless person, they come to eat some food from them. And these homeless people have nothing.

A little plastic bag with their little belongings. And they have a happy smile. And they're so grateful when they get this food.

So these kids are thinking, my God, they have nothing, they live under the bridge or they live under the trees. And yet these people are so happy. They're not complaining about anything.

And here I am going to Georgia Tech. My families are okay. You know, I have all the siblings, I have a place to stay.

And I'm going to this great school. And I think that there's no other way for me. So what happens is, I think when we zoom in too much, you start to miss a huge part of your life.

You lose the bigger picture. Zooming into college, and zooming into their struggles, and their individual struggles in their lives, which is what happens. It becomes a little too much.

When they come to Food for Lives, when they serve the homeless people, they get to zoom out. They get to see society. They get to see another section of society who are actually surviving, and are happy.

So that perspective, just stepping back and getting a broader perspective, completely changes their psychology. They no longer feel like they're the only ones in the world who are struggling. That no one understands them.

So this is extremely helpful for mental health of the college students. And that is why you will see, we have almost 1,200 students who subscribe to this from all the colleges. Sorry, 1,200? Now we have shifts.

1,200 students participated in the Food for Life initiative to actually prepare and serve the food? Yes, now we have a list. They have to be on a waiting list to serve the food. Every day, serving prasadam to the homeless people.

And now they're so inspired. They themselves govern, self-govern, they manage, they cook, they cut, they go out and distribute. Now they're also working on getting grants to feed the homeless people, and getting more high school kids involved.

So they are basically running the whole show, because they have been benefited by it. And they understand what it does to them. Yeah, you know, this is… So empowerment comes… So this is a very significant point.

When we had brought, we had accompanied some Western students or Western yogis to come to India, we took them to Vrindavan and Rishikesh. And then after that, we asked them for their realizations. One of the things that almost everyone spoke was, you see people, you see kids are so poor, people are so poor over here, the kids are playing in the dirt, but there's a smile on their face.

So it does seem that if we live in India, in one sense, poverty is a fact that you just can't close your eyes to. Even in the biggest of cities, there are slums and other places. But it does seem that in the West, there are a significant number of people who live within no derogatory intention within a bubble of prosperity and comfort.

And often they don't come out of that. And in some ways, say doing a directly spiritual activity, such as worshipping a deity, may not at that level, when a person is, evoke a higher consciousness as much as actually going out and interacting with and contributing to and observing a person who is actually underprivileged or deprived. So of course, not in any way minimizing deity worship, but I'm thinking from their perspective, they might think this is just a ritual, whereas this can actually broaden their perspectives, enhance their consciousness and make them more spiritually receptive.

Does it work like that? I'm not quite sure if that metaphor is exactly relevant to this, but yes, there is definitely the principle of… Yeah. I don't want to minimize deity worship, but the point is that that sense of people being deprived and people living with far less than what we have, that might not, that particular feeling might not come by doing direct devotional services. So the principle I'm talking about is seva only, whether you go into the temple and clean the vessels for the temple kitchen, and whether you go and cook for homeless people, both are seva, but certain sevas may actually broaden people's consciousness more than other sevas.

That's the only point I'm making here. Yes. No, I accept that because the people that I deal with are just college students who are seeking some answers, and our Bhakti Yoga Club is a club of self-inquiry, self-realization through self-inquiry.

Self-inquiry, okay. So for going to the park, going under the bridges and serving the homeless people that evoke such deep emotions within themselves about society, and they ask those questions to themselves, and oftentimes when they don't have answers, then they will come and ask in that group, that Bhakti cluster that we have. And then, you know, if they can't, they want some other opinions, then they will ask me.

But to have that exposure, and then to talk about that exposure, that realization, and actually have, you know, other people involved in that realization sharing, it creates a very deep sense of camaraderie, and also a deep sense of relationship that is deeper than the material bonds that they have in their lives. So that's how the service is tremendously impactful. You know, if they're doing service, I feel that has been one of the biggest saviors for a lot of the college kids.

That to truly understand that there is a whole different world, there's a whole different dimension to life than the bubble that they live in. And see, earlier you mentioned that about 15 students over the years have become serious devotees. But along with that, you are saying 1200 people have become connected.

So those who are, those who may not be committed to devotional practices, but they are at least connected and engaged. Is that right? What you're saying? Yes. To the Bhakti process.

Okay. This is remarkable. Because one of the things which I am noticing more and more about spirituality in today's world is, is that people are very much interested in, you could say, pragmatic spirituality rather than philosophical spirituality.

That means, I don't care really what you believe. I want to see how you contribute to the world. And you know, how does what you, whatever it is that you believe or you practice, how does it make my life better? How does it make the world better? And I'm seeing that this is a significant difference between say, the college outreach approach you are using and approach that I have seen in India.

In India, when devotees, when the youth become devotees, they become extremely internally absorbed in a lot of vibrant engagements, but internally engaged, say, for example, they will organize camps, they will give talks, but these are all directly spiritual. So in a sense, those who become devotees, they are almost like dropping out from the rest of the world. And they're happy, they're growing.

But from the college perspective, you're not doing anything for the college. You're not doing anything for the world. You're just practicing your own spirituality.

Of course, they are reaching out to other students and also helping them become spiritual. But from the world's perspective, it simply appears that you are only increasing your numbers. You're not doing anything for the world.

But this is a way in which the students can actually gain a while growing spiritually, they actually not only feel good about themselves, but they also gain a respectable identity in the world. That they can talk to their faculty, their parents and others that I'm doing this, I'm feeding the homeless people. So I think this is brilliant way of a very affirmative way of presenting spirituality.

Any thoughts on this? Yes. So for us, you know, we call ourselves the bhakti yogis. We're very, we take pride in calling ourselves bhakti yogis.

Because for us, bhakti means love. And yoga means to connect, the union. So how is love expressed? Love is expressed through service.

So we understand the importance of loving oneself, meaning the soul, not the body. So that's why we do meditation, we do japa, we do yoga. So we address the physiology, psychology, and our spiritual existence, our soul, and residing, us residing in this body.

So for us, this is loving, connecting with ourselves. Two hours of meditation every day, japa meditation is truly connecting with ourselves. And then to serve others, because we live in a society, we have to serve others.

So then we go out, cook delicious vegetarian food. And we sanctify the food and then we offer it to the homeless people. And there is no, is there any spiritual outreach in that? Or that is more of, do the students speak anything spiritual to the people whom they give food to? Or you don't focus on that level? Yeah.

So the exchange between the Indian people feeding the homeless people versus the America, is that in America, the homeless community sometimes are very much considered to be, you know, the untouchables. So people will drive at a traffic light, and they will take one dollar out of their pocket, they'll give them money, and they will not even make an eye contact. And imagine that the homeless person is thinking, you know, I'm not even worthy for this person to look at me and to say hello, or to ask a question.

So what we do is that we not only look at them, we actually talk with them. The students talk to them. They know their names.

They know something about their lives. So indirectly we're helping their mental health. And the students are starting to realize they're actually human beings.

So they treat them like actual human beings and try to have meaningful dialogues. So this is a spiritual exchange that is happening. We actually look them in the eye.

The students, they actually are encouraged to go and talk to them, and hear their stories. And then they share their stories with other groups. So it's part of our spiritual growth.

For us, it's not just feeding, giving them some rice and, you know, some beans and sandwiches and quesadillas. It's not just about the food. It's really connecting with that person.

This is how we share these loving exchanges. Bhakti is real practice in the streets. It's with the homeless people.

It's with the people who need help. The people that sleep under the bridges. And sometimes in society we think, you know, we should not reach out to them because they're worthless.

But in our Bhakti Yoga Club, we don't look at them like that. We try to see everyone has a purpose. Everyone has made mistakes.

Everyone is in a certain condition because of, you know, their karma, decisions they have made. But regardless of that, they deserve a plate of sanctified food. So this gives us, the students, a very deep sense of, you know, commitment, their own spiritual growth, helping someone else grow, and treating them like human beings.

Go ahead, bro. Yeah. So the first statement you made was very shocking.

I thought American society is that way, quite egalitarian. But you're saying that people don't even look at untouched, look at homeless. Is it because they are considered failures and they have not been able to succeed in the great American dream, that's why they don't belong to actually our group? Or why is it like that? So a lot of these people, if we study the American system, if there is one, you know, felony against you, say if you're caught smoking ganja, an ounce of ganja, that goes on your record and no one will hire you.

And people that will hire you, you know, are, you know, they're very generous to give you a job. Because at some point in your life, you made one small mistake. And for that one mistake, they're incarcerated for a whole life.

And their life spirals down. And the laws are so stringent. You know, the jail system is privately owned, it's not owned by the government.

So the laws are made very strict. So they're kept in that cycle. And then once they are begging, it just keeps going down.

And that to cope with living in which living under the nature for, you know, 365 days of the year living in nature, only yogis can do it and only crazies can do it. So you know, unless they're yogis, obviously, you know, the scorching heat, the cold, you have to deal with it every single day, it is going to take a mental toll on you. And then when they become, they become a little mentally disturbed, the society even disregards them even more.

So that is, you know, as from a sociological perspective, how society works. But us, our Bhakti Yogi ethos is that we must share love with everyone. The homeless people, our family, our friends, our community, and with each other and to ourselves.

You know, I think you are also using the word spiritual in a much more inclusive sense. Spiritual is not just say, people chanting Hare Krishna, or people worshipping the deity. Spiritual also is, if one's consciousness expands, one connects with more people at a deeper human level that also leads to an expanded understanding.

So are you, am I on the right track? Because when you say that, looking at people in the eye and talking with them, that helps them to grow spiritually. Now from a, from maybe an institutional perspective, they're not chanting, they're not telling others to chant. So where is the spirituality over there? So is that a very restricted understanding of spiritual growth? I think there is Krishna in everyone's heart.

So just treating someone as you would see Krishna in their heart, it's a spiritual transaction. It's a spiritual connection. Beautiful Prabhu.

So why treat them differently? And the students understand that. And the homeless people, they feel it. So, you know, our thing is that we shouldn't be superficial.

And unfortunately, yes, I don't try to use the term religion very lightly because religion has a lot of stigma. Yeah. And so, you know, we have our own understanding of what is spirituality and what religion.

So we use this mudra. This is the mudra for religion. Beautiful base, beautiful big foundation.

And then we make it to, is my religion or no religion? Or you're going to burn in hell for eternity. Right? Krishna is the only way, there is no other way. Buddha is the only way or there is no other way.

Jesus is the only way or there is no other way. So this narrowing it at the tip is something that at least I feel uncomfortable with. And also young people are very uncomfortable with it.

So here is our mudra for religion. And this is our mudra for spirituality. Okay.

What is the difference? Look at the foundation. You're this insignificant little jiva, but you have immense potential for spiritual growth. How does that unlimited, limitless potential? How does the mudra represent that? Yes.

Because the triangle is not top down. Here you're narrowing down the religion to my God, or you're going to burn in hell for eternity. The top, the tip.

Okay. Big base, God and compassion and all of this, all of that diluted becomes you surrender to Jesus, or you're going to burn in hell for eternity. You see this tip? And what we do is this way.

Exclusivism and inclusivism. So how is this inclusive basically? So what is at the bottom and what is at the top? You are at the bottom, the top, there is never ending. It's an open top.

You just keep growing. If you look at the triangle. Yeah, I know.

I understand what you're saying. Maybe I am. I use the metaphor in a different way.

That's why I often use the metaphor of spirituality, like climbing up a mountain. And I say that there are different parts you can use to climb up a mountain. And narrow mindedness is to think that my path is the only path.

Whereas broad mindedness is to acknowledge the different paths. But what you're saying here is that, say, the living entity, the Jiva is right here on the bottom, he's going on a spiritual journey, and he has limitless potential for growth. Oh, okay.

So you're saying, let me understand, let me rephrase it, if I understand it, that this approach is a triangle approach is that we may start with very broad kind of values. But eventually, you have to do this only. And so eventually, it narrows out.

Whereas this spiritual growth, so narrow. On the other hand, here, spiritual growth begins with understanding our finiteness. And then spiritual growth is more like the expansion of our consciousness.

Correct. That's beautiful. No, but then there's one thing significant here.

You're having this very expansive way of presenting spirituality. And you also said, which we probably need to discuss that you said that you'd let them find the answers. But you're also saying that a good number of students come to a very serious level of practice.

So 16 rounds, and things like that, that is quite specific. And even following the four regulative principles in America won't be easy. So how do you get to that? How do you inspire them to come to that level then? So you know, we always encourage people to be humans through dialogue.

So we are a very important part of our strategy in reaching out to more people to give bhakti in their hearts. Is that we believe that asking the right question is more important than getting the right answers. Learning the art of asking the right question.

You know, this is, I could say, at one level, it is so appealing to any thoughtful mind, because many religions are all about, we have the answers. And asking the right questions is more important than getting the right answers. It's a radically attractive way of presenting spirituality.

It's wonderful. But then, but then eventually, don't you give them the answers? Or how does it work further? We make them answer the question. If they're reading Srila Prabhupada's books, and, you know, they will have more questions.

And then we ask them to ask the right question. And then we just, and, you know, as a group, they will have a dialogue about the same question. For example, we have a whole debate about veganism versus vegetarianism versus meat eating.

So gradually, now we're having a debate between veganism and ahimsa foods. So gradually, the debates, the incredible research that the students will do to come up with amazing answers. Our service, my service is to provide a platform for them to ask these questions.

And together, just little drops from Bhagavatam, for example, they ask, what is the definition of time? When everyone defines what time is, then I also get my chance to define what time is. I'm also a participant in this group. So then I'll just bring out, you know, the Srimad Bhagavatam definition of what is time.

And then they can think about it. I'm also one of them. I'm also on a journey.

So I also get a chance to share. We're all in this journey together. I'm not a superior.

I'm not a guru. I'm not any of it. I'm going on a spiritual journey with them.

I just happen to spend 37 years of my life on a spiritual journey. You know, I may have hit a few more bumps in the spiritual journey than they have. And I just share my journey with them.

Now, that's a very endearing way of putting it. Not that I have gone further, but I have hit a few more bumps. It's a very humble and endearing way of conveying the point that do we have more experience, but it is beautiful.

It's amazing. So, Prabhu, now, I suspect that we may need one more discussion to actually go into specifics, because I would like to, because we are talking about one and a half, we already talked for more than one and a half hours. And I felt that maybe we could discuss about specific issues, cultural issues, intellectual issues, which come up and how you address them.

And if we are okay, we could go, but I think it will take a significant amount of time. And we had planned one and a half hours. So, would you like to speak some concluding words, then I can summarize? Or should I summarize? No, or maybe I can summarize and then you can add something, whichever way you want to go ahead.

Sure. Sure. Sure.

Go ahead. So, are there any online resources where people can come to know more about any websites or any Facebook page or something like that? Maybe you could give the links to me and I'll put it in the YouTube description of this podcast, if people want to know more about what you're doing. So, we have been practicing detachment from technology as part of our practice.

Really? Okay. For two years now. Two years.

So, no Facebook minimization of having this sangha with the technology. So, only a few months ago, we started getting very active on technology. So, our website will be launched very soon.

Our website is MindfulServantInstitute.com. Okay. And our service website is FoodForLives.org. FoodNumberForLives.org. Oh, okay. And we have presence now on Instagram and Facebook.

Okay. So, that is in what handle? The FoodForLives? Both. MindfulServants.

Yeah. FoodNumberForLives. And also on MindfulServantInstitute.

So, we just, because after a long debate, everyone, all the students felt that we are now ready for technology to make proper utilization rather than it is using us. So, finally, we all concluded that we should get on social media. So, when you said we were detached from technology, it's not just you alone, but all the students who were on this journey, they collectively took the decision to keep a distance.

Correct. Minimize intake of technology. Yes.

That's remarkable. You know, it is. I really want to know more about this, how you can inspire people to get away from technology like that.

So, maybe I'll summarize. We do it as a group. Okay.

Yeah. So, then they don't feel disconnected. Rather, they feel giving up technology is actually connecting them with the group.

Otherwise, the big fear is fear of missing out. The fear of missing out when you're not connected with technology. So, this is a very powerful way of using the power of association in disentanglement from technology.

Because one of the promises of technology social media is that it will give you association, it will give you connection. But collectively, if you sign off, come off, that also gives you a connection in a deeper, better way. That's creative.

So, I'll try to summarize. It's actually art that they say it's meant to connect. It's actually disconnected the whole world now.

Technology, social media has disconnected the whole world. So, that is why we discuss how we need to reconnect. In order to reconnect, you have to disconnect, really, truly disconnect from technology to reconnect.

Yeah, that's true. I've read surveys of how people who spend a lot of time on social media they eventually have depression, they have loneliness. And on Facebook, you see people at their happiest.

And I compare yourself with that and you think that, oh, this person went to this place and this person did that and I'm doing nothing. And people start feeling, start feeling themselves inferior and they start going into depression. And unless there is a human connection, a digital connection can actually distract.

I saw one meme which said that one person, he says that last night, my Wi-Fi went off. So, I spent some time with my family. Seems they are like nice people.

So, it's like the people get disconnected, we may get more concerned about what is happening in another part of the world. And we are concerned with what is happening with the person next to us. That's so true.

So, that is remarkable how you can get, inspire people to actually become detached from technology. So, I'll summarize, Prabhu. We'll continue.

So, we discussed today about broadly in the reaching out to the American college students of the college mind. And you started with your experiences that Prabhupada himself was concerned about the future of the movement and that's why he wanted to get people who would be future leaders and through college students. And then for doing that, your focus is on developing relationships with people.

And relationships basically means you said non-judgmentality and confidentiality. And creating a safe zone where people can just express themselves. Prabhupada also did that at least in the early days where Prabhupada just loved people and made them feel valued.

So, there is some amount of disconnect between how Prabhupada, we see him in his actual conduct and what might come off if we read the books without understanding how Prabhupada dealt with people. And then you have channeled the activist zeal of people by having this food for life where they get to do seva in a way that helps them not just spiritually but also helps them come together and it helps them psychologically also. They get out of their bubble of comfort and affluence and see people who are much more deprived.

And I like the idea of how growing spiritually is also simply acknowledging the humanity and the spirituality of other human beings by connecting with them at a deeper level. It's not just necessarily doing particular practices which are important in their own place. And channeling that activist zeal and especially what I found distinctive about what you've done is two, three things.

One is the creating the safe zone. The second is helping students get a, do a service that doesn't seem simply like fully fulfilling an institution's need or just increasing your own ranks. But it is actually contributing to society and it is something the students can feel good about.

Not in a sentimental sense but they're doing something noble which society can respect. And so that's the second thing. And the third thing which we'll probably discuss in the next session is about how rather than teaching, you're actually just leading them in a journey.

So asking the right questions is more important than just giving them the right answers. And another important thing which I found striking was that yoga, how it can actually decrease people's ego centered around how good they are and that can increase their spiritual receptivity and also using breath to expand people's consciousness. So this is a very, very naturally spiritual, naturally spiritualizable approach to yoga.

And I loved the metaphor which you used of, say, often conventional religion is this way, that there is humanitarian concern, but eventually there is, there is a narrow mindedness. So I remember I read a, I read a phrase about this kind of religious outreach as it is a narrow minded selfishness, narrow minded selflessness. They are selfless, but still it's quite narrow minded.

Whereas you talked about this as spiritual growth is more of the expansion of consciousness. And so we first realize that we are insignificant and then we try to see the, see the spirituality and divinity in everyone. This is, this has been a stimulating discussion.

And would you like to, did I miss out anything or would you like to add anything toward the end? You've done such a beautiful job, Prabhu. Thank you, Prabhu. Actually, I was simply rephrasing what you have done in real life.

And maybe next time when we meet, if you have some photos of some of your students or some of the programs, we could share this on the podcast also, if you like. Sure. Pictures.

I can send you pictures. I can send you videos. Yeah, that would be wonderful.

So thank you very much for your time and I look forward to having you again in the near future. Thank you so much for having me, Prabhu. Thank you.

It's our pleasure. Wonderful.