The sanctity of relationships

[Congregation program at Delhi, India]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna I am happy to be here with all of you today and I will speak on Bhagavad Gita 2.14 on the theme of know when to focus on I will speak broadly on the theme of relationships know when to focus on the insubstantiality of relationships and when to focus on their sanctity so Krishna is studying 2.14 in the Bhagavad Gita does anyone know what is 2.14 yes we can recite matra sparshastu kaunteya shito shna sukha dukha daha agama paino nityas tam sthitikshasvabharata so tam sthitikshasvabharata Krishna is saying tolerate and what do you tolerate, he says tolerate life’s ups and downs sometimes it will be heat, sometimes it will be cold sometimes there will be pleasure, sometimes there will be pain sometimes there will be honor, sometimes there will be dishonor sometimes we will feel a sense of belonging sometimes we will feel a sense of loneliness sometimes we will have health sometimes we will have sickness so Krishna is saying tolerate all these things and Tamasthitikshaswar.
So how do we tolerate? If you look at the, there are two aspects to this. The previous verse, does anyone know what is 2.13? Rehinasmenyatha dehe kaumaram yavanam jara, tatha dehaantara-prapti, dhirastatranamuhiyati. Inside the changing body is the unchanging soul.
So this idea of tolerance comes from understanding that, okay, this is material, it is temporary, but beyond that, there is an eternal which is unchanging. So in a sense, Krishna is telling that the result of spiritual knowledge will be material tolerance. But at the same time, he’s also stressing two significant words in the verse.
That is, he’s referring to Arjuna by two names. Matras Parshastu, Kaunteya. What does Kaunteya mean? The son of Kunti.
And Tamasthitikshaswar, Bharata. Bharata means what? The descendant in the Bharata dynasty. So what this means is, now if you consider both of these, these are bodily connections, isn’t it? You are whose son, that’s a bodily connection.
You’re born in which dynasty, that’s a bodily connection. So just now in the previous verse, Krishna has said, you’re not the body, you’re the soul. But in the next verse itself, he’s referring to Arjuna by two names, which are both based on bodily connection.
Now you could say Kunti was a devotee and that’s why that relationship is spiritual. Yes, but then he could have had a relationship with so many other people. He could have had a spiritual relationship with Madhuri also.
That is not referred to over here. So the point here is that where do we get the strength to tolerate? Spiritual knowledge is one thing and it’s important, which Prabhupada also writes in the Parpot, that, oh Arjuna, Krishna’s implication is that you are born to a great mother, therefore great things are expected from you. You are born in a great dynasty, therefore great things are expected from you.
And therefore, yes, it is difficult to tolerate. But because you’re connected with great people, you have greatness in your blood and you can do this greatly difficult thing. You can tolerate.
So when we are practicing spiritual life, there are two aspects. So in the 2.13, Krishna has told that you’re not the body or the soul. But to act at the level of the soul, Krishna is reminding Arjuna of a bodily connection.
You see the significant point? How do you get the strength to act at the level of the soul? By remembering that I have an illustrious bodily connection. So we get strength in our life from different sources. And in moments of weakness, from wherever we get strength, we have to use that.
I was just in Vrindavan, we had brought about 25-30 completely new Western people. Western people, just interested in exploring spirituality to India. And for most of them, this is the first trip to India.
Some of them, they have not even been to a temple, Hare Krishna temple in America. Just met some devotees in some music festival, some yoga festival. So it’s quite challenging talking with all of them, trying to present Krishna Bhakti in a place like Vrindavan.
But at the end of it, we ask them for feedback about their experience. So one of them, this lady, she stays in, she’s a comedian and she’s actress, not a very well-known actress, but actress. So she’s a comedian in Hollywood.
And she says that I live in L.A. And when people go out for walks, he says, if we are walking on a road and if somebody else is walking. Now most people don’t go out for walks on their own. They go out for walk because they’re taking their dog for a walk.
So you’re walking your dog and they’re walking their dog. And many times if people see each other, you see somebody coming, they actually go to the other side. Don’t avoid the other person.
And it’s completely unfamiliar people also. She said in contrast, we saw in Vrindavan, he said that the cars come in this way, the roads go turn suddenly, people walk into the roads. She says there is so much chaos, but still there is so much connection.
Even if somebody just cuts across someone, that person waves and the other person waves and everything moves on. You’re an unfamiliar person, you just smile at them, wave your hand and they wave back. So she was saying that she has a friend who was a Christian missionary.
And she says she comes to India and gives people Indian stuff. They say, oh, these poor children are there, they have nothing to play with. So we’ll give them some toys, we’ll give them some toffees so that they can eat some things.
We give them some things. He said that in our country, we focus a lot on stuff. But he says, she’s also a photographer, she’ll click some pictures.
There’s this boy, he was not fully clothed and he was playing on the street and she clicked a photo. And this boy’s face was so bright. He says, I have not seen such bright children even in the wealthiest places in America.
He says, these people are not poor. They have some higher wealth. That wealth is the wealth of devotion.
There are people staying in Vrindavan. But that is also the wealth of relationships. When we are focusing too much on worldly things, then what happens is that people get sidelined.
And that is what is happening to a large extent in the Western world. It’s paradoxical in the Western world, things are very well organized. Things are extremely well organized.
Flights will practically never get late. If you turn on the tap, water will always come. If you turn on a switch, power will come.
So things are very well organized. But people are extremely lonely. People are extremely disorganized.
Disorganized not in the sense that they don’t do their jobs well. They have a professional ethic by which they do their job very well. But in terms of relationships, people are extremely lonely.
Last 3-4 years, I have been spending almost 6-8, 9 months out of India in the Western world in different countries. So I have been observing people over there quite closely, interacting with them also. So I was at a college program and I was going there for several weeks.
And then I became friends with some of the students. So one boy, normally if we meet some people, we ask them, especially the students, where are you from? What do you do? What do your parents do? So he said that, I grew up in a foster home. Now, I asked, what happened? Is it that your parents died in an accident or something? He said, no, both my parents are alive.
I said, why are you in a foster home? He said, when I was 5 years old, my parents separated. Now, they use the word separated as a polite word for divorce. Divorce sounds too harsh.
They separated. And then, at that time, both my mother and my father told me that this marriage was the biggest mistake of my life. And you remind me of that mistake.
Therefore, both of them said, we don’t want anything to do with you. And although both parents were alive, this child became a ward of the state. So, okay, if two people can’t get along with the other, sometimes that’s how it is.
But what is the fault of the child? So what happens is that when relationships and their sanctity is not stressed adequately, there is sanctity means sacredness. So, there is a sanctity of relationships and there is a utility of relationships. And the two are very different things.
Utility means, okay, how useful is this relationship? So, if we have only a utilitarian attitude towards relationships, then what happens? Okay, just like say some product has an expiry date. It has outlived its shelf value. So, just discard it.
So, yes, of course, in every relationship, we expect reciprocation. We want to feel connected, we want to feel love, we want to feel respected, valued. It’s all there.
But in every relationship, we go through phases. And if we view relationships only from the point of utility, and there is no element of sanctity, then what happens? We end up taking permanent decisions based on temporary emotions. You say, this person says something like that, this person does something like that, this person did like that, and we get so angry, we feel so hurt, we feel so bad about it.
Now, certainly it’s bad, but it’s temporary. But if we have only the utilitarian attitude towards relationships, then what happens? Okay, in this relationship, I gave you so much pain. What is the point of this relationship? It’s serving no utility, give it up.
And then, tam siddhiksha svabhārata is no longer applied. Tam, just tolerate. There are temporary emotions, they will come.
Don’t take permanent decisions based on temporary emotions. So, we all go through different phases in our lives. Sometimes we feel very connected with the people around us.
Sometimes we feel almost alienated from the people around us. And we have to see that while there could be specific reasons for this, that sometimes a particular person may be behaving rudely with us, somebody may be acting hurtfully towards us. And this is all, at a contextual level, it has to be dealt with.
Okay, maybe I did something to offend the person, we try to understand that person, try to clarify. But beyond that, just as there is environmental weather, similarly there is relational weather. Environmental weather means, just like sometimes, it just becomes too cold.
Say now in Delhi, it’s quite cold. And sometimes, it’s very hot. Neither the excessive heat nor the excessive cold are permanent.
So now, why is it sometimes too hot, why is it sometimes too cold? You can say, that’s how it is. Now what happens, that with respect to excessive heat or excessive cold, we understand that it’s not in my control to change it. But similarly, when there is relational weather, sometimes there is too much heat in the relationship.
That means that two people are having practically a war. They are having a serious war with each other. So there is too much heat in the relationship.
That’s bad. And sometimes there is too much coldness in the relationship. Coldness means, the two people, they just don’t even talk with each other.
No hot words, but it’s like a, you could say a cold war. There’s an American comedian, Woody Allen, so he says, he makes a joke, he says, my wife and I, we live in different rooms, we enter and leave our house through different doors, we eat our meal at different times, we drive in different cars, we watch different TVs, we are doing everything possible to keep our marriage together. Now if everything is separate, where is the relationship? So it’s like a cold war.
So, now sometimes, these are phases. So what happens with respect to relationships, we think that we can control things. With respect to weather, we understand this is not in my control.
But with respect to relationships, because we think we can control things, so we end up getting excessively frustrated. That capacity to accept and tolerate doesn’t come because we think this should change, and this is not changing. This person should change.
Why is this person not changing? So, when this happens, at that time, some amount of tolerance is required. These are phases, we’ll go through such phases. And at that time, we need to focus not just on the utility of relationships, but also the sanctity of relationships.
Sanctity means that relationships serve a sacred purpose in our life. What is the sacred purpose? Ultimately, wherever we are in life, it is ultimately by Krishna’s arrangement. And ultimately, beyond whatever is happening at a circumstantial level, there is a transcendental plan.
There is a transcendental plan that is acting. And when we focus on that transcendental plan, rather than a circumstantial situation, why is this person doing like this? Why is this person doing like this? Focus on, okay, Krishna, how do you want me to serve in this situation? And we see every situation, every relationship as an opportunity for service. We have a relationship with Krishna.
We have a relationship with our spiritual master, our spiritual guides. We have a relationship with our family members, with our friends, with our colleagues. And all these relationships have their place in our overall life.
So if we have a narrow understanding of spirituality, a narrow understanding of spirituality is that I have a relationship with Krishna, I have a relationship with devotees who represent Krishna and all other relationships are temporary. When we have that attitude, then we end up neglecting those relationships which are also important for us. So if you see, in the Mahabharata, Yudhishthira somehow gambled.
And he gambled terribly. And he ended up losing everything. Not only his wealth, not only his brother, not only himself, but eventually he gambled Draupadi and he lost her also.
And then when Draupadi was dragged into the assembly to be dishonored, at that time, Duryodhana was enjoying this discomfort, this misery of those whom he had always been envious of. And Draupadi, she, at that time, when she was dragged into the assembly, she realized this is a disaster about to happen. And when a person is drowning, they will catch hold of some straws.
So what are the straws she caught hold of at that time? She said, if Yudhishthira had already gambled himself, how could he have gambled me? If he was not his own master, then how could he have gambled me? And she asked that question to the assembly and nobody could answer. And Bhishma said, actually it’s a very difficult question to answer. And Vikarna, one of the brothers of Duryodhana said, actually what she is saying is right.
If Yudhishthira had gambled himself, he couldn’t have gambled her. And then Karna got up. Karna said that, you are just a child, what do you know about Dharma? He said that Yudhishthira gambled by his free will and he lost her.
And he silenced Vikarna. And finally Duryodhana, he turned towards Draupadi. And he said that your husband is known as Dharmaraj.
So if you say that Dharmaraj has committed adharma by gambling you, that he had no right to gamble you, he had lost himself, if you say that, then I will release you. Now Draupadi had every reason to be angry over him. And in one sense if you look at the character of Sita and the character of Draupadi, Sita is much more accepting of whatever happens.
Draupadi is a fiery woman. She gets angry. But even then what was Duryodhana trying to do? He was trying to pit wife against husband.
But what did Draupadi say? She said that Yudhishthira did not gamble by his free will. He had no desire to gamble. It was because of the instruction of his elders.
And if you look at Dhritarashtra, Dhritarashtra had sent Vidura to invite the Pandavas to gamble. Not just invite, to instruct. And just before the Kurukshetra war, Vyasadeva had predicted.
He said, oh king, you are ruling now, not before the Kurukshetra war, just before this gambling match. Oh king, Yudhishthira had just performed the Rajasuya Yajna. And enormously prosperous.
So at that time, Vyasadeva had said, soon there will be a great adversity and there will be a great war. And after that war, you will have a stable kingdom. And that war will be catastrophic.
So at that time Yudhishthira thought, why should a war be fought? I will do everything possible to avoid the war. And one way I can avoid the war is by avoiding dissension, avoiding conflicts. Small conflicts become big.
So he said, I take a vow that I will always obey my elders. Now little did he know that his elders would tell him to do something so terrible. So both his general attitude of respectfulness towards the elders and also his specific vow.
They both combined together and when Dhritarashtra invited him, instructed him you could say, for the gambling match, he could not refuse. So although Draupadi was angry and very angry with Yudhishthira also for gambling like that. But at that point, she did not blame him.
She said, those who instructed him to gamble, let them decide whether the gambling was done rightly or not. And then of course the whole story how Dushyasan tried to disrobe Draupadi and Krishna intervened and protected her. But the important thing over here is that Draupadi does not get so angry with the Pandavas as to reject them publicly.
She, later on in the end of the forest, she is so angry with Yudhishthira. Not only she is angry with Yudhishthira, she is angry with Krishna also. She says, Krishna, I prayed to you, I begged you for protection, why didn’t you come? Now of course you can say Krishna came and gave her the saree.
But it is not that Krishna personally came over there. All that happened was the saree simply became inexhaustible. So nobody saw Krishna over there actually.
So Krishna does not say, I am God and my plan is perfect. Krishna simply says, actually at that time I didn’t know about the gambling match. Krishna says that, Krishna when he is in this world, he is performing Naralila, at that time he didn’t always act as God.
He said that there was a demon Shalva who had attacked Dwaraka and it was a devastating attack. I was busy protecting Dwaraka. As soon as I came to know what had happened, I immediately came.
And Krishna tells Draupadi, those who have dishonored you, they will be punished. Your anger, your tears will not go in vain. He consoles her, he does not judge her over there.
The point I am making over here is that for us, for every one of us, when we are going forward in our life, trying to follow the right path, at that time we need strength. And that strength can come from various sources. So, when Draupadi is angry, Krishna doesn’t judge her.
Even when Draupadi is angry with Yudhishthira, she doesn’t judge and condemn Yudhishthira. There is a human aspect to relationship and there is a spiritual aspect to relationships. Human aspect means there has to be a basic human connection.
Without that human connection, we can’t establish a spiritual connection. So, Shri Prabhupada, once he was in America, and at that time, the devotees were having a condo. One side the devotees had an apartment, the other side, there were old ladies staying over there.
And that old lady would complain that these devotees make so much noise. And many of these devotees were earlier from a hippie background. So, she thought they are still doing something hippie only.
So, they are complaining. And because she had been a long time resident over there and the devotees had just newly come in. So, her complaints have been taken quite seriously by the authorities over there.
And the devotees were angry with her. We are just doing kirtan, we are glorifying Krishna. What happens for some devotees, anybody who opposes any devotional activity, immediately we demonize them.
This person is a demon, he is opposing Krishna’s kirtan. Well, it may be, it may not be also. There are human concerns.
So, we cannot, just because we are transcendental, doesn’t mean that we have to stop being human. One devotee was telling me that. And sometimes devotees do very loud kirtans.
And it’s good, we want to purify the whole environment. But, what happened was, sometimes devotees make these huge vampers and they go on streets for kirtans. So, what happened was, they were going on street kirtan.
Some kirtan before some other kirtan. And then, it was like a medical hospital area, some people said, please don’t. Please don’t do loud kirtans.
They said, no. All these people are sick and they will get purified by hearing the holi. Well, okay.
But eventually what happened, the devotees did kirtan. And then, suddenly they got a legal notice, taking away all their permission for doing public kirtan. This was in America, at one place.
So, what happened? What had happened was, the devotees were going through an area where there were infants. And those infants, like you have ICU for babies also. So, these loud kirtans had caused rupture to the tympanic membrane of some babies.
And the parents had got so angry, they had complained to the local authorities. And for several years after that, the devotees just couldn’t do public kirtans. So now, our goal was to, our goal was what? To purify people.
But, we cannot establish a spiritual connection with others, if we don’t care to establish human connection. So, human connection, kirtan is purifying always. But kirtan is primarily the holy name.
The instruments are meant to enhance. But sometimes the instruments become so loud, that if we alienate people by that, then what are we doing? We are not actually benefiting. So, if we are citizens of a particular country, if we are members of a particular community, if we are members of a particular family, we need to be sensitive.
We need to connect with each other at a human level. And when we connect with each other at a human level, then we get the strength to practice bhakti and connect with each other at a spiritual level. So, what happened with these devotees? That, these devotees, they started demonizing.
Oh, this old woman is a demon. And Prabhupada came over there, to that place, and they told Prabhupada, they had gone for a morning walk, this woman is causing so much trouble to us. And Prabhupada came for the morning walk, and instead of going to the temple side, he went to the other side of the condo.
He just knocked on the door, and then for 15-20 minutes, he was talking with this woman. He was talking typical old people talk. How is your health? And where are your children? What did you do in your life? And Prabhupada was cordially talking with her.
And after that, Prabhupada just finished, and he greeted her, and he left. And the devotees had a big question mark. Devotees’ idea is that, whenever you interact, you should give Krishna to them.
And Prabhupada did not speak anything about Krishna to them. So, then the devotees had a big question mark on their face. So, Prabhupada just looked at them and Prabhupada said that, actually, old people sometimes get lonely.
And when they become lonely, they become irritable. So, Prabhupada, just a few moments went to the cause. He was just irritable because of loneliness.
And Prabhupada just went and talked nicely with her. And after that, when Prabhupada left, that lady came and told these devotees, that Swami is such a nice person. And he stopped complaining afterwards.
Because the devotees were soft on the Kirtans, but the complaints stopped. So, Prabhupada actually brought her closer to Krishna without speaking one word about Krishna. Without speaking one word about Krishna.
What did he do? He connected with her at a human level. So, sometimes to establish spiritual connections, we almost neglect the human connections. And I started by talking about the western world, where human connections have broken down terribly.
And people are extremely lonely. In our society, at least, human connections are there. Of course, they are also getting broken down.
But still, human connections are there to some extent. And our spiritual connections should build on the human connections. Not be built by destroying the human connections.
So, for us, when we practice Bhakti, it’s important that we learn to gain strength from wherever we get strength. So, that means our chanting Hare Krishna can give us strength. Or Bhakti Sushum can give us strength.
But we, as Krishna tells Arjuna that, remember your lineage and act respectably. Similarly, for us, we can’t trivialize our relationships. So, sometimes some relationships will be such that they seem to be unfavorable to our Bhakti.
But we can’t judge things based simply on their externals. Actually, Bhakti is not just about going to a temple or chanting Hare Krishna or doing certain things and not doing certain things. I was with a senior sanyasi guru of our movement in America.
And he does a lot of excellent preaching. And he was telling me that when he met Prabhupada, he was very close to Prabhupada also. So, when he met Prabhupada and he was going to some college outreach.
So, Prabhupada told him the worst thing that you can do in your college outreach is present Krishna consciousness as a set of rules. Do this, don’t do this. He said, that is the worst thing you can do.
Nobody is interested in rules. He said, explain the philosophy. Help people to make sense of life.
Help people to understand that this is a journey. For example, when we are going on a road, there are rules. You have to go either from the left or from the right, depending on which country we are in.
But the rules have a purpose. The purpose is not to go smoothly. And once we focus on the purpose, we automatically follow the rules.
But if you don’t understand the purpose and you focus on the rules, don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this. Who will do this? I was at an interfaith conference in America. And there was a Christian pastor.
He was saying how young people are not coming to the religious organizations so much. They are giving up religion. So he was telling that one young person in his congregation told him, this is a Christian, he said that his conception of a priest, he says a priest is someone who is constantly worried that somebody somewhere is having some fun.
So this young boy’s idea was a priest’s business is to stop us from having fun. A priest is worried that somebody somewhere is having some fun. And if somebody has that kind of idea, why would they practice any kind of religion? So the point is that yes, there are certain do’s and there are certain don’ts.
But those do’s and don’ts have a purpose. And sometimes we may have, for example, speaking about Krishna is a do. But Prabhupada didn’t speak about Krishna and brought somebody closer to Krishna.
So we don’t have to just focus on following the do’s and don’ts. We have to focus on fulfilling the purpose. And Prabhupada’s purpose, one of the purposes in starting ISKCON is to bring all living beings closer to Krishna and to bring all living beings closer to each other.
So closer to Krishna is there, but closer to each other is also important. Sometimes what happens, in trying to spiritually connect with each other, we materially disconnect with each other. In trying to develop spiritual relationship, we almost deny the human element.
Sometimes some devotees, I was talking with one very successful preacher in America, he’s saying that now I’ve started thinking about my preaching. He says, we often, if somebody is speaking, sharing Krishna Bhakti, they count. I distributed so many books.
I brought so many people to Krishna. So he said, I have now started thinking that instead of counting how many people came to Krishna because of me, I also need to count how many people did not come to Krishna because of me. It may happen that because I think I am so spiritual, that I become rude.
That I become rude, I become judgmental. I remember when I was introduced to Krishna Bhakti, maybe about two decades ago, there’s always the zeal of the new convert. Somebody has newly started practicing.
So I was working in a software company and used to go by shuttle or bus. So during that one hour travel, I used to always either chant or read or hear some lecture. And then there’s one of my friends, he was a friend with me in college also.
And then we joined the same company. So one day this friend made a big mistake. He asked me, what are you doing? And then he asked me, what am I doing? We have the six session Bhagavad Gita course.
So I concentrated all the six sessions in one session. And when we got into the bus, I asked him the question. Next one hour, I was giving him evidence for existence of soul, existence of God, the law of karma, the regulative principles, the importance of chanting as a Yuga Dharma.
And by the end, his eyes were glazing. And then after that, and I was congratulating myself. You see, I spoke whole philosophy in one hour.
But after that, whenever, so I would get in the bus first. My stop was first and his first stop would be later. So whenever he would get into the bus, the bus has two doors.
He would peek into the door, see where I am sitting and then enter from the other door. So recently I was in Seattle and I met him. So his sister has become a devotee.
And his sister had come to my program. She told me about him. So then I told her, yes, I would like to meet him.
So we met. So we both remember the incident. We’re laughing.
So so he is a very nice person. He has a family. He has a very good job.
He’s a brilliant student. He was. But so what happens at that time, I realized that my desire might have been to give Krishna to him.
But I just overwhelmed me so much and I alienated him by that. So what happens, we need to connect with people at a human level. And then connect with them at a spiritual level.
So human level means when we meet people, people should be able to feel I met a nice person. Even I don’t agree with what this person does. I don’t agree with what this person believes.
But nice person. So if people feel like that, that is also a step forward in their spiritual journey. Because they’re appreciating a devotee.
But if they feel, oh, this person is making me feel bad about myself, forcing me to do this. Don’t do this. Do this.
I don’t want to meet such a person. So if they get, if people feel negative about a devotee after meeting a devotee, then it may well be that we are in the name of our own spirituality. We are actually taking people away from spirituality.
We think, I am so spiritual that I always talk about Krishna. Okay, good. But then what happens? People start thinking, this person is impractical, this person is fanatical, this person is otherworldly.
And they think, I don’t want to become like that. And they go away from Krishna. When Prabhupada would go on morning walks in America, he would greet people, good morning.
Not Hare Krishna. What do people understand Hare Krishna over there? So, we have to connect with people where they are at. And this is important because we all have many existing connections right now in our lives.
When people are lonely, it’s so difficult. I went for a morning walk in LA. I was doing my japa.
We went to a park. Normally if you go to a park, you will see some children playing. Maybe their mother or father is there sitting and watching.
And this park was filled with dogs. I could practically see no children over there. And then I searched in Google and they found that actually in many metropolises in America, LA, New York, San Francisco, especially among the Caucasians, not the immigrants, not the Chinese, not the South Americans, not the Indians, not the Arabs.
But among the Caucasians, white Americans, in white American families, the number of dogs are more than the number of children. And it’s a serious problem. In fact, there is a big court case.
It’s just like if a husband and wife separate, then sometimes there is a custody battle. Who will have the child? So now America has formed laws to arbitrate on custody battles of who will have the pet. So there are government appointed attorneys who will argue who is more qualified.
Is the woman more qualified or the man more qualified to take care of the dog? So what has happened over here? You could say a joke. It’s a comedy but it’s also a tragedy. People write provocative things on their car bumpers sometimes.
Sometimes people write on their T-shirts also. So this car had written, the more I get to know people, the more I love my dog. So what has happened that when people cannot connect with each other at the human level, then what happens? They start connecting with animals.
It’s not a laughing matter for people who are going through that. It’s tragic actually. So we all need love and relationship somewhere.
We can get it fully in our relationship with Krishna. But we cannot get it immediately in our relationship with Krishna. So we need to get it so we can have a vertical relationship with Krishna, we have horizontal relationship with others.
So doing what is required to preserve our horizontal relationships, be they with devotees, be they with family members, be they with friends, be they with colleagues, that is important. And when this is not there, then we will seek relationship with dogs, we will seek relationship with so many other things. So the process of bhakti is meant to build on what we have, not build by destroying what we have.
Build on what we have means we have a spiritual culture, we have a strong family structure, we have generations of good impressions. Now there can be a, I conclude with this point, that this family structure that is there, it can be attacked in two ways. The major attack comes from materialism.
Materialism means that when people start valuing things more than people, then relationships collapse. So I once gave a similar class and somebody asked me, you are talking so much about relationships, but you gave up your own parents. So if you gave up your own parents, why are you talking about relationship with us? You broke your own family.
I didn’t break my family, I still have relationship with my parents. But I said that the spiritual knowledge which I am sharing, it is actually strengthening the fabric of many families. So, ok, yes, I am not so closely connected with one family, but spiritual knowledge is a part of a culture that can closely connect many, many families.
So the idea is spiritual knowledge can be practiced in a way that is harmonious with our present material situation. And that is the art of bhakti. Bhakti is not just about do this, do this, do this, do this, don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this.
Bhakti is about in my situation, how best can I connect with Krishna. So sometimes certain do’s may be don’ts for a particular situation. Prabhupada didn’t talk about Krishna.
And sometimes some don’ts may be do’s. Why? Because that’s what that person means. So I was in one western country and there was this young woman.
She had gone through many foster homes when she was a child. And the only constant in her life was her dog. So when she was in a foster home, when she was in an orphanage and she went to a foster home, she had a condition that if anybody is going to adopt me, they have to take my dog.
So she said that actually my dog was the only person who loved me constantly. And somehow, you see, somebody has spiritual impressions. And what happens if somebody has practiced some bhakti in spiritual previous life? Then that keeps, that starts off in the next life.
So somehow, I told her to write an article for BDG also. I am one of the editors for Back to Godhead. So I am always looking for good stories.
So she is going to write it. So she said that somehow, that dog convinced her that there must be a God. She says, my parents are constantly Jai, the foster parents, but this dog is one constant in my life.
How is this dog constant? There must be some higher arrangement. So you could say that dog pointed her to God. And then she came to bhakti and devotees told her, give up your dog.
It’s a pet, it’s material attachment, it’s maya. And she gave up. And she said that when I chant Hare Krishna, I will not be remembering Krishna, I will be remembering my dog.
So what to do at that time? So now all this is in no way, I am not recommending in any way that people should have dogs. I am talking about where people are in a particular situation. So eventually she met a very mature Vaishnava and he told her, if that has been what is so constant emotional strength for you, you see how you can use that in Krishna’s service.
So now what she has done is, there is a child therapy clinic. If children are separated from parents and they are traumatized or for whatever reason they are traumatized. So what she has done is, the children can get along nicely with pets.
So she has got a center, it’s associated with children’s hospital, where children come and play with pets. And she has got a series of dogs, all small, gentle, poodle kind of dogs. And in the dog kennel, all around she has put pictures of Krishna.
And she has gentle Krishna music going on. And then what she does over there is, that the children come and they see Krishna lifting Govardhan, they see all these dramatic pictures and they are playing with dogs and they are hearing Krishna stories from her. And so many of these children who are traumatized, they come in that atmosphere.
They come in the atmosphere of the kennel and actually they calm down. From material perspective they calm down, from spiritual perspective they grow up. So Krishna consciousness is not so much.
If somebody is on a road, they don’t go right. But for that person there is a big road block over there, they can’t go. Go right and find a way from there.
So Krishna consciousness is not just about rules and regulations. It is about connecting with Krishna, connecting ourselves with Krishna, connecting with others, so that others can also connect with Krishna. So that’s what ultimately Prabhupada wanted to give us.
The purpose of the Krishna consciousness movement is to connect with each other and connect with Krishna. So we don’t, this is not in any way again to minimize the importance of rules and regulations. But there is Niyamagraha, one extreme of Niyamagraha is neglect the rules and regulations.
Others insist on the rules and regulations so much that we forget about Bhakti, forget about that Bhakti. So for some people, doing certain things may be essential so that they can have a calm mind, so that they can focus on Krishna. So whatever is required, so that we can fix on the mind of Krishna.
That is what we need to do. We will all see that if our material relationships are very turbulent, no matter how much we may chant, we will not be able to focus on Krishna. We are chanting, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna.
This person, terrible person, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. What a rancid person, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. And we just actually, our mouth is chanting but our mind is just lambasting that person, cursing that person, criticizing that person.
Then what is the use? We are not really becoming Krishna conscious by that chanting. So as far as possible, sometimes some relationships may not be workable and then we have to see how to move forwards. But if we just neglect the relationships, then nothing will work.
So we have to do what is required that we have a foundational stability, a material stability by which we can grow spiritually. And that, if we do that, then we will find that much of the anxiety and stress in the devotee’s life will also go down. Bhakti is something which is said to be su-sukham, is meant to be joyfully performed.
But it has to be, it will be joyful to perform when we properly perform bhakti. So bhakti is not just about chanting Hare Krishna, bhakti is about acting in our relationships in such a way that those around us also get a positive perception of Krishna. When we have this inclusive understanding of bhakti, then we will find that the stress in our relationship will go down and we will be able to focus on the core activities of bhakti much more.
And then our bhakti will become more positive, more joyful. So I’ll summarize and then if you have any questions, we can discuss. I focus on this theme of that know when to focus on the insubstantiality of relationships and when to focus on their sanctity.
I started by how Krishna tells Arjun that you tolerate but then he says tolerate and he also says you are not the body or the soul but then remember your bodily connection and therefore act in a proper way. So I talked about three main points. The first point was how we have to establish a human connection before we can establish a spiritual connection.
In the western world when the human connection is not there people are extremely lonely and in India whatever be the problems there are still there is a framework of rich human connections and these human connections give us a platform by which we can live peacefully in life and our spirituality is meant to build on our humanity not build by destroying our humanity. It means build by enhancing our human connections. We can’t connect with people at a spiritual level if we don’t connect with them at a human level and sometimes just connecting with them at a human level is all that that person can accept at that time and in that if they just appreciate oh I met a nice person that will take them on their journey towards Krishna but in the name of a spiritual connection if we have a human disconnection and those people go away from Krishna.
And last point I talked about how is when we practice bhakti we focus on we need all the help that we can get. All the help that we can get means bhakti is not just about do’s and don’ts. So certain do’s may be don’ts for a person in a particular situation.
Don’t speak about Krishna if that’s going to alienate a person. Don’t do kirtans if there are children whose ears may be damaged by that and there are certain don’ts, devotee might increase your attachment by having pets but if that is the only source of steady affection a person has had depriving them of that is going to destabilize them. So then see how that can be used in Krishna’s service.
So if we focus on the purpose of fixing the mind on Krishna then we will find that we will get a way to move forward in our spiritual life. And by having a platform of human connections we will be able to make our spiritual connections better and we will be able to connect better with Krishna and better with each other. And that’s how bhakti will become joyful to perform.
So are there any questions or comments? You were explaining so nicely that in the name of being travelling we should not forget to pray. You were explaining that relationships are at two levels that at the level of utility and at the level of sanctity. But sometimes we see that in our society also till the time we are in some service with a devotee we are having constant connection, we are having regular talks with them.
Basically it becomes more at the level of utility and not at the level of sanctity. We might not be in contact with the devotee, we are not even in service or something like that. That’s true.
Like since years. So even in devotee community sometimes relationships may be based on utility not sanctity. Sometimes somebody talks to us, we go to temple, somebody talks to us sweetly with us.
Immediately our mind says, what does this person want from me now? So, see, even the devotee community cannot stay like a transcendental bubble unaffected by the broader community. We live in a particular society, we live in a particular culture. So the utilitarian attitude towards relationships that is there in the outside world, that will percolate in the devotee community also.
That’s an unhealthy percolation. It’s not what we want. But the point is, we can’t just expect the devotee community to be isolated from the larger world.
We are a part of that world. We are pursuing a higher purpose in life. But still, we are affected by the world around us.
So therefore, this is an unfortunate part of the practicality, of practical reality in the world. Now, what do we do about it? At one level, it is just natural that we all have a lot of things to do. Even in the devotee community, we have a lot of services to do.
And if somebody is doing some service, then we connect with them, we reciprocate with them. And if somebody is not doing the service, then okay, it’s difficult. Everybody has less time.
But then we have to find out like-minded devotees. There are some devotees with whom we will just be able to bond nicely. Some devotees we work together, and we have to do a service to do that.
But even if we find one devotee with whom we just organically have a connection. Sajati, Asha, Bhagwat, Bhakta Sangha. Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Jiva Goswami also says that.
Bhaktivinoda Thakura also says that. We need like-minded association. So like-minded association means some devotees love to study Shastra.
Then if some other devotees love to study Shastra, both of them sit and discuss. Then they just delight in the discussion. They don’t have any agenda.
Just have joyful discussion. So where we get that kind of relationship, we need to nourish that. Because we are a part of the larger world, where we also want to contribute to raising the consciousness of people in the world.
So naturally we have a lot of things to do. And the utilitarian approach may creep in. And it’s not really possible to have sanctity in all relationships.
At one level, yes, we understand everybody is a devotee and wants to serve Krishna. But everybody has finite time. So then if we expect this devotee, say if the devotee is a community leader, and that community leader has 40 people in the community, the community leader won’t be able to give time to everyone.
But if that community expands to 400, then it’s just not humanly possible for that community leader to give time to everyone. So then what do we do? Then the community leader needs to actually create other leaders. Or the devotees who are coming in, they have to also understand, I may not get that kind of attention from this person, but maybe there are others I can get attention from.
So it’s our responsibility to see where we can have relationships that we cherish. And then develop those relationships. And give time to that.
And when this utilitarian attitude is there, it will disturb us sometimes. But we have to see that there is a functional aspect and there is a transcendental aspect. Functional aspect means, for doing things in the world, we have to function in a particular way.
But the transcendental aspect is that we are all doing this to serve Krishna. So we don’t judge or criticize devotees if we see them having a utilitarian approach. Please understand, this is not a place where I can… With this devotee, I will not be able to develop a deep connection.
Let me see with whom I can develop a deep connection. Does that answer your question? Any other questions? Yes, sir. We just said that we don’t have to follow the rules.
I want to ask you one thing. If you do not follow the rules, if you do not follow the instructions, how will you achieve that purpose of devotion? Or how will you achieve love of Krishna? I mean to say, you can understand what I am trying to say. That’s what I am trying to say, yes.
So, yeah, it’s a valid question. So, if we don’t follow the rules, how will we actually achieve the purpose of attaining Krishna? Yeah, I didn’t exactly say that we shouldn’t follow the rules. My point was that following the rules is not the primary thing.
Achieving the purpose is the primary thing. And in certain situations, the rules may be the way. And in certain situations, the rules may come in the way.
So, it’s a matter of time, place, circumstance. For most people, the rules are the way. For most people in most situations, yes.
Say, coming to a temple, associating with devotees, and doing certain activities which are devotional activities. That’s the way to grow in their spiritual life. But sometimes, for some devotees in certain situations, that very principle may come in the way.
What do I mean by come in the way? About 15 years ago, I had got severe TB. And then when I had TB, TB is contagious. So, my doctor told me, I am giving a new rule now.
Don’t associate with devotees. Because if you associate with devotees, you will give them TB. So, for almost a month or two, I had a mask around my mouth.
And I was staying in a quarantined room. So then, at that time, normally the rule is associated with devotees. But in that situation, it’s a different rule.
Why? Because that situation is a special situation. So similarly, now this is of course an easily understandable example, because there is a contagious disease over there. But we all go through different phases in our life.
And at different phases, different things may be the priority at that particular time. So, Srila Prabhupada, his life story is described in a book called the Leelamrit. It’s a beautifully inspiring book, six volumes.
And there, when Srila Prabhupada was in Prayag, he was in that Allahabad area, it is Prayag pharmacy. So, Prabhupada used to, he was Abhay Babu at that time, and he used to give medicines. And as a doctor, he would prescribe medicines, and Prabhupada would prepare the medicines in this combined dispensary.
He would give the medicines. So, this doctor, there is an interview with him in the Leelamrit. And doctor says that it is clear that Abhay Babu was a deeply religious person.
But at that time, the main question in his mind was, how can I earn more money? At that time, he had daughters to get married, he had his family responsibilities, one of his sons was very sick, and he needed money for the treatment. So, that was his main question. So, if that is the main question, somebody says, okay, what are you doing? At that time, in Allahabad, Prabhupada was in Calcutta, but he had gone to Allahabad.
In Allahabad, there was not much of the devotees over there. Prabhupada then left Calcutta to go to Allahabad. Some of his God brothers said, what is this, you are going away from devotee association just to earn more money? But that was what was required at that time.
So, yes, there is a rule that we should try to associate with devotees. But what is the purpose? The purpose is to connect with Krishna. And in that particular, so it’s like, it is, say if you are driving on a road, if the traffic is very high, we will go slowly.
The road is clear, we will go fast. So, there are certain rules that we should do certain things to grow in our spiritual life. But sometimes, in particular situations, certain other factors may come in.
So, like for me, it was disease. For somebody else, it might be that, there is a severe financial emergency in that situation. So, then it’s like the traffic has become very high, so you can move only very slowly.
But then, we complete this point, the test is that when the traffic becomes clear, if after that also we keep moving slowly, then that means you are not interested in going to the destination only. But when the traffic clears, we start moving faster. So, it’s not that we shouldn’t follow rules, it is that we shouldn’t reduce bhakti to following rules alone.
Rules are definitely a part of bhakti. But bhakti is more than the rules. So, the purpose of the rules is to get our consciousness to focus on Krishna.
But sometimes, that rule may become so difficult to follow in a particular situation, that a person may get distracted from Krishna because of that. So, then, okay, put aside the rule, and focus on Krishna. And then, move onwards in your life, and then, you can focus on Krishna much more.
So, I would say that it’s a matter of, that there is also, in Sanskrit, in Shastra, that’s called apadharma. There is dharma, there is normal, you could say, duty, responsibility, good rules, you could use the word. It’s a very oversimplified meaning of the word dharma, the translation of dharma.
But there is apadharma. The apadharma is, in emergency situations, there is a different code of duties, a different way to act. So, I would say, from both sides, those who are guiding us, they need to be mature enough to understand the person’s situation, and then give instructions that are workable for the person in that situation.
And from the person who is following also, they also have to be candid enough to explain their situation. Otherwise, what happens? We just say, yes, I’ll do it, and we don’t do it. Or we resent about doing it.
There is a good example of this in the Srimad Bhagavatam. When the prince Dhruva is insulted, he is neglected by his father and he is insulted by his stepmother, he goes into the forest. And when he goes into the forest, at that time, his mother has told him, search for Vishnu.
I can’t help you, Vishnu will help you. So, he says, I want a kingdom bigger than my father’s. I was not allowed to sit on my father’s throne, I will sit on a bigger throne than that.
So, when he goes there, Narad Muni meets him on the way. And Narad Muni says, you know, in this world, sometimes we are honoured, sometimes we are dishonoured. He says, don’t bother about it.
Don’t take it so seriously. Go back home. Now, at that time, this is also one instruction.
Don’t take honour and dishonour so seriously. But, at that time, Dhruva says that, there is Kshatriya blood in my body. And, I cannot tolerate this dishonour.
I cannot tolerate this dishonour. I need to counter this dishonour. Please tell me how to do that.
And what does Narad Muni tell him at that time? Okay, then you worship Vishnu, and you will get a bigger kingdom than your father. So, what is, here you could say, there is not just instruction, there is negotiation. When Narad Muni gives one instruction, and at that time, Dhruva says, I can’t follow it.
Dhruva is not disrespectful, Dhruva is not arrogant, but Dhruva is candid. He says, yes, your instruction is true, but I can’t do it. And then, Narad Muni does not get on his case, you know.
You are insubordinate, you are disobedient, you are rebellious, you are unsurrendered. He says, okay, you can’t do this, then you do this. So, I would say that, there has to be honest communication from both sides.
And then, there is a possibility for a particular person, a particular situation, to find their way towards Krishna. So, I should get this into my mind, that if a person is not going regularly to the temple, if a person is not chanting sixteen rounds, and if the person is maybe not fasting enough, but deep in his heart, or in her heart, he loves Krishna, he thinks about Krishna in the morning, he thinks full day about Krishna, in the night when he sleeps. So, can that person is going to achieve the love of Krishna or not? Okay.
Okay. So, if somebody doesn’t go to the temple so frequently, doesn’t chant a lot of rounds. I am not saying he is not chanting.
He is chanting. Yeah, not a lot of rounds, not sixteen rounds or whatever. What the instructions are being… Okay, I understand.
So, maybe that person is thinking about Krishna in the morning, in the daytime, night. Will that person attain Krishna? See, it’s very difficult to predict who will attain Krishna. Because it’s a matter of the heart.
And what is in whose heart, we can’t know. And actually, see, we can’t read each other’s thoughts. And that’s a great blessing.
If we could all start seeing each other’s thoughts, not a single relationship could be sustained. You think like this, you have this kind of desires. You feel like this about me.
My God! So, at one level, nature has itself given us a protection that we have certain feelings which arise within us. Bad feelings, unwanted desires, whatever. But nature has given us the cover that just the presence of the feeling and acting on the feeling are two different things.
We get some thoughts, some desires, but we can decide, I will not act on this. So, my point is that we don’t know what is in anyone’s heart. At the same time, we can, in general, see what is in a person’s heart by how they act.
Say, if somebody goes from, say, somebody from America or somewhere comes to India, Africa, and they come to India. And India is a cricket-mad country. And, say, people, there’s a cricket match going on, and people are discussing about cricket.
And this person says, I also love cricket. But as soon as the cricket match starts, that person walks away. Whenever people are talking about cricket, that person just changes the subject.
That person never reads any cricket news. That person never watches any cricket match. They never discuss anything about cricket.
He says, I am a great cricket fan. Well, people say, if you’re a cricket fan, then join us in watching cricket matches. Join us in discussing about cricket.
So, it’s very rare that something is constantly there in the heart and it never comes out. What is there in the heart naturally comes out. The same way with Krishna Bhakti.
If Krishna Bhakti is there in our heart, it will come out in our actions. And if it is not coming out in the actions, then it is quite likely that it may not be very prominently present in the heart. It is there, but it’s not very prominently present.
And it’s not that the path to Krishna Bhakti is just one path. We could say that some people are going like this towards Krishna. Say like, sometimes if you want to go up a mountain, there’s a steep climb up the mountain.
Sometimes, there might be a more gentle climb up the mountain, but it’s longer. It may take a long time to get up to the mountain. Sometimes, some people, it’s almost like they may take a whole number of days very gradually climbing up the mountain.
So, I would say that the path to Krishna, some people will take the steep path up to Krishna, and they’ll get there faster. Some people will take the gradually inclining path towards Krishna. They’ll also get to Krishna.
It may take more time. So, it’s not that this path is right and that path is wrong. Yes, you could say this path will take us faster, but somebody may just find that steep path so difficult to take, say, I’ll not climb only.
Well, then it’s better, you can’t take the steep path. The steep path is not the only path. It’s a gradual path also.
Gradual path also, somebody can move forwards. So, we have to find out how best we can connect with Krishna. So, the best thing is that we don’t judge others.
This person is just doing something external. They have no devotion in my heart, in their heart, and we don’t become, we don’t necessarily, we don’t claim that I have more devotion than you. You understand? You are taking this path, I am taking this path.
And I am also practicing at my level. Now, who will attain Krishna? It is those who will remember Krishna at the time of death. So, who will remember Krishna? Normally, one who is attached to Krishna.
But sometimes somebody may be doing a lot of devotional activities and they may be very intensely remembering Krishna. Some people may be doing a lot of devotional activities, but it may be just ritualistic. And they may not be remembering Krishna.
Some people may be doing a little devotional activity, but they are doing it with a lot of devotion. And they may remember Krishna. So, it is very difficult for us to predict who will attain Krishna.
But what we can do is, we make sure that we stay on the progressive path towards Krishna. Now, I say that one aspect of Krishna Bhakti is that it is inclusive. Inclusive means that we can start Krishna Bhakti from our place at our pace.
Okay, this is the pace that is comfortable for me. Maybe later on, I can accelerate this pace. So, if you see, Prabhupada, when he went to America, at that time, the whole idea was, anybody who came to the temple, they just moved into the temple.
Everybody, men, women, they all started living in the temple, started practicing Bhakti. When Prabhupada came to India, at that time, Indians were not interested in moving to the temples. So, what Prabhupada did was, he invited people to become life members.
Life members means, they would get Prabhupada’s books, they would get an opportunity to stay in the temples, and they would make some financial contribution. And that was the connection. Prabhupada was accepting of them.
Prabhupada was happy if they connected more, but if they were not ready, Prabhupada accepted them at that level. So, you could have one level, a very steep path up to Krishna. That is, just leaving everything, moving to the temple, practicing the full-time devotional service.
Other is, another gradual path, where people just, okay, they have the facility to come to the temple, they have the books, they may read it. And now, if you see, our movement is, so, Prabhupada was accepting of both. Prabhupada was very happy if somebody did this, Prabhupada was happy if they did this also.
At least you are connected with Krishna. Now, today, our movement is neither there nor here. We have some devotees living in the temple, but they are very few, as compared to the broad majority.
But, we have life members, but more than life members, we have congregation devotees. Congregation devotees means, devotees have their families, their careers, their social roles, and devotion is also an important part in their life. That means, it’s neither here nor here.
So, we are evolving as a community to understand and practice how devotees who are in a congregation, as a part of the larger world, how they will practice bhakta. So, there are some broad guidelines, but as the community evolves, as devotees evolve, we will all understand how best we can practice bhakti in a way that is real and sustainable for each one of us. Chances are that we can attain that perfection.
Yes, chances are there for everyone, and we just keep moving forward at the pace that we can, and Krishna will guide us forward. Thank you, Prabhupada. Can I ask a question? See, when we are in Krishna consciousness, we like to chant, we are associated, but our children, majorly what we observe, they start envying Krishna.
Maybe they feel that we are not giving them enough time. They are envious of Krishna. They are getting envious.
They want to run away from Kirtans, from everywhere. How to handle that? Well, if by our practice of bhakti, our children are becoming envious of Krishna and running away from Krishna, what to do? Stop using strong words like envy. Envy is a very, very strong word.
What I will say is that, see, every unhealthy habit is just an unhealthy expression of a healthy need. That means, if children are going away from a particular thing, it’s not envy. What do they know about Krishna to be envious of Krishna? They are demons who are envious of Krishna.
They are not demoniac. It’s just that they feel, I don’t like Krishna, so I don’t want to do this. That’s not envy.
Envy is a very strong word. There is a very, very strong tendency in the devotee community, not just in the devotee community, in any religious community to reduce reality to convenient labels. To reduce reality to convenient labels.
You know, this person is envious. Like I said, any person who is opposing Kirtan is a demon. It’s not like that.
Now, why are they opposing Kirtans? Like a medical reason was there in a particular situation. So, I would say, children have a need. And if that need is not met, they will express it in a particular way.
And it’s not just in the devotee community. In fact, if you see, as I mentioned, I was at an interfaith meeting, so we had very candid talks. So, there is a phenomena called PK.
Not the movie PK. That was there. PK means, in Christianity, they call preachers kids.
So, preachers kids, what to speak of, they don’t become preachers. They don’t even become Christians. It’s a well documented phenomena.
And it’s not that it always has to happen, but it’s common. So, there could be 2-3 different reasons for this. One is, in general, in youth, there is a tendency to rebel.
There is an American thinker, I think it is Mark Twain, he said that when I was 15, my father was a fool. Now I am 25, and I am amazed how much the old guy has learned in the last 10 years. Now, it is not that the father has learned in 10 years, maybe the father also learned, but just the way we think at 15, and the way we think at 25 is different.
So, see, what happens for many of us, when we practice Krishna Bhakti, to some extent, all of us has a little bit of a rebel inside us. We want to oppose. So, to some extent, we used our rebellious tendency to come towards Krishna.
Maybe our parents, our family, our society was, no, no, don’t do this, I want to do this. That’s how we came to Krishna. But for our children, they are already with Krishna.
So, their rebellious tendency takes them away from Krishna. So, for most of us, the philosophy came first, at least at some level. Okay, there is a God, there is a soul, there is God, there is soul.
We may know all this in a vague sense, but we got a clear understanding. For us, the philosophy came first, and then the culture and the rules came. But for the children, the rules come first.
And they just feel it’s so restrictive because of that. Don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this. So, I have seen, I know, I was in America, I was talking with one devotee’s son, very intelligent boy, he is a topper in his school.
But he, when I started talking with him, he said that I haven’t come across one rational reason to believe in God. His parents are preaching, his father gives brilliant classes. But his son, I was surprised.
What happens is that he has never heard the philosophy systematically. As a child grown up, he heard Krishna stories, which are good, but Krishna stories are not philosophy. So, logically, systematically, philosophically, how to explain Krishna Bhakti? And then, he said, then I talked with his father, I did not mention directly to him that he doesn’t believe in God.
He said that, has he heard the philosophy systematically? Whenever I tried to speak to him, he says, he just doesn’t hear. So, when I was introduced to Bhakti about 20 years ago, I asked one senior leader, how can I preach to my parents? So, that senior leader told me that, by letting anyone except you preach to them. So, what that means, by letting anyone except you preach to them, what that means is, that if we speak philosophy to our children, what happens is, our children will feel that we have a vested interest.
Actually, we have good interest to them only, but they feel, you know, you are giving this reasoning so that you will make me do this. So, what happens, because of that, they see it through their filter. So, if they can have somebody, maybe from their generation, or somebody who thinks in a way like them, and then that person presents philosophy, it’s much easier to accept.
So, that rebellious tendency is not an envious tendency. It’s just a normal, youthful tendency to rebel. It just comes in.
So, we just need to create channels for them, where they are accepted for who they are, and they are given the facility to understand Krishna consciousness in ways that is appealing to them. So, I would say that, children also go through phases. The way they are, maybe at the age of 15 or 17.
In America, I have seen that many young people in colleges, not many young people become devotees. Or even they become, they are sort of favorable. But, after they settle down in their life, then many of them take up bhakti quite seriously.
Because they realize that, I want to give good impressions to my children. I don’t want non-violent children to get into drugs. I don’t want my children to get lost.
And then, they start taking their culture seriously. So, that happens for parents. The same people who are 15, 20, 25, they are not interested.
At 30, 35, they become interested. So, they also go through phases. And you need to be patient.
Now, naturally, we would like our children to become devotees. But, we shouldn’t make them feel that our love for them is based on their being a devotee or not a devotee. You are my child, you are my son, you are my daughter.
I love you, I care for you. In my understanding, this is good for you. That’s why I am telling you.
But, even if you don’t do this, still, my love for you is there. So, there is love and there is pleasure and displeasure. The two are separate things.
They should not feel that, to earn our love, they have to become devotees. Then, that will force devotion. That will not last for long.
Yes, my parents love me. My parents are such nice people. And they are practicing bhakti.
Let me also see what it is. So, we shouldn’t make our love for them conditional to their practicing bhakti. We want them to practice bhakti and we can give them facilities by which they can practice bhakti.
But, it is their choice. If they don’t, and we shouldn’t take it very personally. It’s not our failure if they don’t practice bhakti.
It’s not our failure as parents. It’s just, we did our part. One part of our philosophy was, karmanye vadhika raste maa phuley shukadach.
Do your work, don’t be attached to results. So, sometimes it happens that, a person who is initiated by a spiritual master may also give up practicing bhakti. It happens sometimes.
So, is that a failure of the spiritual master? Okay, at one level, spiritual master will be sad, no doubt, if somebody is after practicing bhakti. But, that is not a failure. If the soul is an independent soul, that soul may give up the practice of bhakti.
And, it’s happened. So, if we take it too personally, then we become insecure. And, because of that insecurity, we become very aggressive.
And, then the children also rebel against that. So, there’s a lot of psychology over there, which we have to understand. But, we let the children grow nicely, and give them the facility to practice bhakti, and they will take it at their level, in their time.
Okay? You wanted to say something? Sometimes, it’s very difficult to understand that whether the application or not application, the rule is correct or not. There’s a little bit of understanding, or that maturity. How do we do that? Yeah.
See, how do we understand whether to apply a particular rule or not, at any particular situation? See, in general, rules are important. We can’t just casually say, I won’t follow rules. But, see, one aspect of education is to learn black and white.
And, another aspect of education is also to learn shades of grey. Now, if we don’t learn black and white, we will never learn shades of grey. So, it’s at different levels, different things come.
See, any system of classification, when it is translated into reality, it’s always messy. Say, like, if you have a map, India-Pakistan, or India-China, this is India, this is Pakistan, this is China. Now, on the map, it seems very smooth and simple.
But, if you actually go on the border, is this in India, is this in Pakistan? There’s no neat map over there. That’s why there are border disputes. So, like that, the map, it’s a concept.
Now, if we say, because the border is not clear, so there’s no India, there’s no Pakistan. That will cause chaos. There is India, there is Pakistan, but some places, the borders are unclear.
So, there are do’s and don’ts. So, because they are broad territories. But, there are always shades of grey.
So, we do need to initially learn the do’s and don’ts. It’s important. At the same time, as we grow spiritually, we also have to recognize shades of grey.
That, yes, this rule is important, but at this particular point, what is my purpose? My purpose is to move towards Krishna. I’ll give a simple example. This might be a little controversial.
But, many devotees have found it practical. I’m based in Mumbai, Maharashtra. So, there the Ganesha Puja is very big.
Now, on Ganesha Tadasi, people make Modak. And, they give. Now, they offer that to Ganesha and take it.
And, there is a time for community building and bonding. So, one of the very successful preachers in Maharashtra, he told me that, on this Ganesha Tadasi, if you go to people’s houses, people give you some Modak Prasad. Now, we may say, this is not offered to Krishna.
We’ll not take it. But, if you don’t take it, people feel, people feel a sense of rejection. So, at that time, one Modak or one half Modak if we take, remaining throughout the year in our life, we are taking Krishna Prasad.
One day, if we don’t take that, it’s not only catastrophe. But, if you don’t take it, it will be a catastrophe. People may say, you people are so fanatical.
You people, you don’t respect our faith. You just do your own thing. People get alienated.
So, he told me that, you know, he encourages devotees. On that day, you take the Prasad. So, there are certain rules which are central, certain rules which are peripheral.
Now, different devotees may have different opinions about this. But, I am just giving an example of something that is effective. You don’t make enemies, but you make friends.
And, it’s not that devotees are constantly, flagrantly neglecting the rules. But, there are occasions. There are occasions.
So, we have to see what is the purpose. The Bhaktivinoda Thakur says that, in Chaitanya Shiksha Amrit, that ultimately, a devotee’s heart is in festival centered on Krishna. But, he says, devotees in the community, there are different kinds of festivals.
There may be festivals of other Devatas. The Bhaktivinoda Thakur was living at a time when Durga Puja was very big in Bengal. So, if a devotee has to go there, devotee may go there.
But, a devotee sees Durga as a devotee of Krishna. Devotees have to tell everybody that Durga is a devotee of Krishna to internally praise like that. And, sometimes, there may be secular festivals.
Say, like tomorrow is Republic Day. So, now, we will worship only Krishna. We will not salute the Indian flag.
Then, why? It’s that, it is Krishna who is giving us everything. And, Krishna has given us certain things to the country of India. Isn’t it? So, if we see that Krishna connection, then respecting the country is no big deal.
We respect the country, see the connection with Krishna. So, the point is that, if we understand the purpose of what we are doing, the purpose is to fix our mind on Krishna and to help others fix their mind on Krishna. So, say, if at a particular situation, say, if on Kanesh Chaturthi, you don’t take bath, then, so many people will never fix their mind on Krishna because of that.
Isn’t it? So, how are we doing a service to Krishna at that time? There is a very nice incident. I was with Giriraj Maharaj in America. And, Giriraj Maharaj was writing a whole book about how Prabhupada built the Juhu Temple.
He was very dear to Prabhupada. So, he said that once the devotees were invited to a particular family’s house. And they had cooked food.
And there was onion and garlic in that food. And they served the food. And the devotee said, Prabhupada, there is onion in this.
And Prabhupada said, there is no onion in this. He said, no Prabhupada, there is onion. And the devotee took out the onion.
Prabhupada said, there is no onion in this. Now, Prabhupada was so grave. Prabhupada didn’t see it.
He showed it to Prabhupada. Prabhupada said, there is no onion in this. Third time when Prabhupada said it so gravely, the devotees became silent.
And then, devotees took that food. Prabhupada also took that food. And then, after that, Prabhupada went back.
And Prabhupada said, it was our mistake. We did not tell them in advance that we don’t take onion and garlic. He says, if somebody in India, if a family has invited a sadhu to come to their house, and if the sadhu does not take food, leaves the food and goes away, they will consider that as a disaster for them.
And he says, we have to consider their sentiments. So, I’m not recommending again taking food with onion and garlic. Don’t misquote me on this.
You have to be careful. Otherwise, this will be my last class in Delhi. So, my point is, I’m simply making this point that we have to see the big picture.
So, it is certainly, we don’t want to we don’t want to flagrantly neglect rules or reject rules. But you have to see what is the purpose of the rules. And in certain exceptional situations, putting aside the rule may serve the purpose better.
So, how do we learn that? That’s a matter of maturity. That’s a matter of growing. That’s a matter of seeing what is helping us to grow in our spiritual life by fixing the mind on Krishna.
And it is helping others to fix their mind on Krishna. Did I answer your question? Thank you. So, shall we stop here? Yeah.
What I could make out is that probably we are more, you know, over indulging in rules and regulations, which is also mandatory. But somehow down the line, I probably feel is that there is a lot of lack of empathy amongst us. Especially amongst the devoting community also.
Which is quite essential also to nourish and nourish the community. So, how can we go about it? How can we develop empathy amongst us? Yeah, how do we develop empathy with devotees? One thing is, I think we just hear and understand people instead of judge people. That helps a lot.
So, I was in, as I said, I’ve been going to America last 4-5 years. And one of the things is, I see dogs so many places. And I saw many devotees also have, not many, but some devotees also have dogs.
There was one very senior devotee, a very prominent speaker, somebody whose classes I hear and admire. And he had a dog just constantly with him. Wherever he went, the dog would be right next to him.
So, I was a little taken aback. And because we’ve developed a little good relationship, so I asked him. And he told me that actually he gets epileptic fits.
Epileptic fits. And there are therapy dogs. So, those dogs are specially trained that if somebody gets a fit, then the dog notices that and cushions the fall.
And the dog starts barking. And those dogs have a particular kind of bands around their necks. So, when that kind of dog is barking, then immediately a new observer will call the emergency.
So, he says, this dog has saved my life twice. Once I was climbing a steep flight of stairs and a dog just caught my dhoti and just pulled me. Don’t go.
I want to go. I got him. Pulled me.
And as I was just near the stairs, I suddenly got attacked and I fell. Because if I had fallen from the stairs, I would have probably died. So, now I had no idea that this kind of dogs were there.
So, I was still thinking, this person is so attached to a dog. Why is he attached to a dog? So, I have come up with my own, you could say, working definition of humility. Humility means not just going to the temple, offering obeisances to devotees, going before Krishna.
Humility means to acknowledge the complexity of reality. Humility means to acknowledge the complexity of reality. And I see certain things, and I presume it must be like this.
But reality is much more complex than what we think. So, if we just, instead of judging devotees and putting them, if you are doing like this, you must be attached. If you are doing like this, you must be lazy.
If you are doing like this, you must be short-tempered. No, just try to understand. And we have to become agents of change.
If we see there is lack of empathy, and we try to develop empathy, we try to show empathy towards others, and others will show empathy towards us. But in general, there is a tendency to try to reduce reality to convenient categories. And that we have to outgrow that.
There is black and there is white. But there are many shades of grey in between. So, initial education is about black and white, and sometimes we just stay with that throughout our life.
But there are many shades of grey. And appreciating the shades of grey is actually empathy. So, rather than just judging the person, why are you doing this? You shouldn’t be doing this.
Understand. So, we often… I have written a book on the Ramayana. We have that book here.
There is a whole essay on this. Devotees often talk about each other instead of talking with each other. You know he did like this.
You know she did like this. You know she did like this. Just go and ask, you know.
Okay, I heard you did this. Not in a judgmental way. What happened? Then we will understand each other better.
So, I think just learning to… learning to just connect with each other on a more human level. Understand each other. If we do that, empathy will naturally develop.
So, my whole perspective of this devotee changed. See, I was so attached to a dog. I was thinking, despite having this risk of getting fits, still the devotee is travelling, speaking.
You see, somebody has fear of getting fits and they say, I don’t want to go out of my home only. I will fall down and what may happen. But the devotee has found a way.
There is a dog with him. But he goes and he is doing so much services. So, if we just try to understand each other, empathy will naturally develop.
So, we have to… There is various kind of shortcuts. One intellectual shortcut is that we don’t want to do the hard work of understanding reality. So, just reduce reality to convenient categories.
If we just try to understand each other, empathy will develop. So, thank you very much. Shila Prabhupada ki… Jai… Gaur Bhakta Vrindaki… Jai… Gitai Gaur Premanande… Jai Krishna.
So, we thank Ramji