Understanding Prahlada’s provocative response to Hiranyakashipu’s angry question

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This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
What is exactly happening is that Prahlad is still a small boy and he has been taken to his teacher’s school for learning and then his father comes and asks him, what did you learn? What is the best thing that you learned in school? And the previous verse he says, Shravanam Kirtanam Vishnu. The famous verse basically he says that the activities that comprise devotion to Vishnu are the best. And whatever activities help us to increase our attraction to Vishnu, learning those activities and learning about those activities is the best education.
This is certainly not what Hiranyakashipu was expecting. We’ll start from the text 25 and we’ll move forward. Nisham yaitad sootvacho, Hiranyakashipu sthada, Guru putram uvachedam, rusha praspuritadhara.
So, Nisham yaitad sootvacho, on hearing these words of his son, when he heard these, Hiranyakashipu, Guru putram uvachedam, he turned towards the sons of his guru. That refers to Shanda and Amarka. So, there are multiple generations going on.
So, his guru is Shukracharya and they are in some ways, so the next generation is being trained by the next generation. So, the next generation is Shanda and Amarka and Hiranyakashipu’s next generation is his son. So, the words sootva and putra are the same things.
Guru putram uvachedam, rusha, he spoke with anger. Praspuritadhara. Adhara refers to his lips.
So, he was so enraged that his lips started trembling. Normally, a person’s lips tremble when a person is angry and is trying to control the anger. You just explode and you are trying to not explode at that time.
So, it was infuriating for him. Now, what was so infuriating? It is, say, there are various kinds of polarizing atmospheres in the world. Maybe, say, between India and Pakistan there is tension.
In, say, currently between America and China there is some tension. Or, say, in America between the Democrats and Republicans there is a tension. And normally when somebody in one’s own party starts speaking something completely in praise of the other party, it’s outrageous.
Say, if in a democratic convention somebody starts praising Trump or in somebody in a Republican convention starts praising the Democrats, people will be enraged. So, at least there is just a verbal confrontation. But between Hiranyakashipu and the devatas, there was a physical confrontation.
There had been war. It was brutal. So, at that time, just speaking the name of Vishnu and not just speaking the name of Vishnu, but speaking of devoting oneself to Vishnu was such an outrageous thing for Hiranyakashipu to hear that he just couldn’t control himself.
Rusha Prasputadra. Now, Prahlad is just a small child. At this stage, he is five years old.
So, Hiranyakashipu’s anger initially is not directed toward Prahlad. It is directed toward someone else, that is his teachers. So, can you go to the next verse? Brahma bandho kim etatte, vipaksham shreta sata, asaram grahito balo, mam anadhritya durmate.
Brahma bandho kim etatte. So, the way he is addressing is also very significant. He doesn’t refer to the Shanda and Amarka as Brahmanas.
He calls them as Brahma bandho. Now, Brahma bandho is a relative of a Brahmana. If we understand the Vedic context, it’s actually an insult to a person.
That means that you are actually not a Brahmana, you are just related to a Brahmana. Say, if somebody is not, you are born in a family, but you are not actually worthy of the family. Then, that’s an insult to the person.
So, Hiranyakashipu is so angry that he refers to Shanda and Amarka that you are Brahma bandho, that you are unqualified sons of a Brahmana, as Prabhupada translates. Kim etatte, what is this happening? What is he speaking? Vipaksham shreta sata. Vipaksham.
Vipaksham is the opposite party. Shreta sata. How is he taking shelter of the opposite party? Asata.
This is horrible. So, sata means that which is true and asata which is the untrue, which is real or unreal, good or bad. The polarity.
So, he says, from a demoniac, demon’s perspective, this is terrible. How could you do something? How could this happen? So, asaram grahito balo. Asaram.
Sara is essence, meaning. Asaram is meaningless. This is nonsense.
Grahito balo. That what is this that you are taught to the child? Mam anadhritya durmate. That he is anadhritya.
Adar is respect. Anadhritya is that he is not respecting me. Durmate.
And you say, oh, foolish teacher, what have you done? So, durmate means, it’s interesting at this point that he is not condemning his son. He is condemning the teachers of his son. So, Hiranyakashipu talks about a theme over here, which is implicit over here that the actions of the teacher reflect, actions of a student reflect on the teacher.
So, we’ll come to this theme, but let’s go to the next verses and then we’ll go to the slideshow. Can you go to text 27? Mam anadhritya. So, mam anadhritya means that you have disrespected me.
So, you have disrespected me. And how I saw the praise of the opposite is taken by Hiranyakashipu as a disrespect to himself. How dare he disrespect me like this.
So, then text 27. Santiya asadhavo loke, durmaitrash chadmaveshinah, tesham udayitya gham kaale, rogah pataki naamiva. Santiya asadhavo loke.
There are indeed asadhavo loke. There are people in this world who are dishonest, who are bad people. It’s not just bad.
Asadhavo means, here the idea is that they are actually considered good people. They think that they show that they are good people, but they are bad people. Asadhavo loke.
Durmaitraha chadmaveshinaha. Durmaitraha chadmaveshinaha. Chadmaveshinaha means they are inimical, they are not maitras, they are enemies, but they cover up, they take on a garb as if they are friends.
Chadmaveshinaha. So, what is he referring to? He is saying that you are acting like my friends, you are acting like, you are supposed to be the teachers of my son, but you are acting like my enemies. And then he gives an example, which could be relevant in today’s context.
Interestingly, tesham udayitya gham kaale. So, agham, sins of a person, udayitya, udayitya means they rise, like the sun rises, uday, kaale. In due course, a person’s sins rise.
Rogha pataki naamiva. Rogha pataki naamiva. That rogha is disease, pataki is sinful.
So, what is he saying is a sinful person, their sins in due course of time manifest as disease in their body. So, similarly, your devious mentality is manifesting. Sometimes a sinful person might look healthy, might be wealthy and might be looking normal, but then in due course, disease comes in their body.
So, rogha pataki naamiva. So, the idea is, what is he saying, the basic point he is making is that you are double crossing me, you are cheating me. Instead of teaching my son my glories, you have taught him the glories of my opponent, my enemy.
And therefore, you are my enemies. Durmaitraas. So, sometimes when we are reading the Sanskrit, just because we don’t usually converse in this language, so often the emotions there don’t come out so easily.
But actually, if we look at the words being used over here, these are furious words. You are hypocrite, you are a cheater, you are an imposter, you are a traitor. And he is strongly condemning.
Sridhar Swami explains, Sridhar Swami is a prominent commentator on our scriptures. So, he explains in his Gita commentary and he also repeats it in his Bhagavatam commentary, that when the scripture describes stories, the scripture describes stories in the light of the purpose to be served. So, it’s not that the exhaustive details are described.
Just like, say, if we experience something, maybe we experience some unpleasant incident when we go out, there is some quarrel, altercation. Now, we might describe that altercation, you know, these two people had a quarrel. We might describe it in two minutes.
We could describe it in two hours. So, here just these two words or two sentences are given in the Bhagavatam. Our Acharya has described that Bhagavatam can be elaborated much more also.
So, these two sentences, they indicate the magnitude of the anger of Hiranyakashipu, wherein he is completely holding the teachers responsible and even calling them as traitors. So, we look at Hiranyakashipu, what are his responses? The first thing he states is, can you go to next slide? Yeah. Hiranyakashipu says that the actions of students reflect on the teacher.
In fact, generally, the smaller the student, say, there are teenagers, there are older students, then we might say they have their own nature and their personality. But it’s a five-year-old boy. It is normally, even in a school we go to, if a child is misbehaving, then what the authority says, call the parents of that child.
So, call the parents. So, basically, children themselves are not considered responsible. They are so small.
They are quite moldable. There are different models about parenting. It’s, of course, a different subject.
But the idea is that children, small children, especially, are seen to be like one model, one metaphor is that they are like wet clay. And if they are being shaped in a particular way, that’s because of the person who is shaping them. Now, in this case, Hiranyakashipu has sent his son to his school and then his son comes back and is speaking this.
He says, nobody in my home would speak like this, would teach him like this. It’s you who taught him. So, basically, however we act, that reflects on those who are connected with us.
So, for each of us, we represent a tradition. We represent our spiritual master. We represent maybe our dynasty.
We all belong to different bigger groups and our actions reflect on that group. So, that is, Hiranyakashipu is furious and is targeting the teachers of his son. And now, what is the response of the teachers? Can we go back to the slide show? Sorry, not the slide show, the verse.
Okay, thank you. So, namat pranitam napara pranitam. Pranitam is taught, educated.
So, I have not taught it like this. Namat pranitam. The first response, Shri Guruputra, that is Shanda and Amarkad they are saying, their first response is a vehement denial.
Namat pranitam. We didn’t do it. Napara pranitam.
Nor did anyone else in my school, in my academy taught this to him. Suto vadatya esha tava indra shatru. What your son is suto vadatya, what your son is speaking, esha tava indra shatru.
And he is addressing Hiranyakashipu in very specific categorical terms. Tava, you are indra shatru. He says, we all know that you are the enemy of Indra.
And now indra shatru is actually a glorification. It’s a respectable address. It’s like somebody say, is the world tennis champion and say, you are the rival of the tennis champion.
World number one rival. Oh, really? You must also be a great player. So, he is telling that we know about these divisions.
We know that there is, the devatas and the asuras are opposite. We know tava indra shatru. So, you are the enemy of Indra.
Suto vadatya. And your son is speaking like this. Neither I nor anyone else in our academy has taught this.
Then how is this come up? Naisargikiyam matir asyarajan. It’s a beautiful word. Naisargikiyam matir.
Mati is consciousness. Naisargiki is nisarga in Hindi and Sanskrit means nature. Naisargikiyam means natural.
This is his natural consciousness. Asyarajan. Because it is a natural consciousness.
Niyachamanyam kadadasmamana. So, Niyachamanyam. Therefore, give it up.
Give up what? Don’t your anger towards us. We are not kadadasmamana. We have not done anything at all.
So, this Naisargikiyam, this is a very interesting point. Can we go back to the slide show? Basically, within parenting, within any kind of training setting, there is always this debate. Can you go next slide please? So, there is what is called as a nature nurture debate.
That means, say, when we become a particular way, is it because of we are born with a particular nature? Or is it because we are nurtured in a particular way? And that’s what makes us like that. So, this debate might be there with respect to leadership. So, are people born as leaders? Or are people made leaders through training? It could go to any success in life, any field.
Could it be, say, if somebody is a great musician? So, can people by system, by training systematically, can they become musicians? Or if we consider, say, writing. Nowadays, writing as a course is master in fine arts and such courses are becoming quite widespread. But it’s interesting that practically none of the celebrated writers ever did any such courses.
The graduates from most of these courses, it’s not that they become the best writers in terms of quality or in terms of fame or whatever else. So, with respect to, there is this debate. And yet, although many of these top writers, they don’t, they themselves never went to writing school, they will come, some of them will come and teach at these writing schools.
So, is, say, for example, writing teachable or is writing ability something which comes innate? So, now from a spiritual, from a philosophical perspective, we understand that we are born with a particular nature. That nature is that we are souls who have been in previous lives. And when we come from this previous life to this life, the actions that we have done, the impressions that they have caused on our mind, they are there with us.
And that’s how we are born. If parents have multiple children, parents can make out each child is different. Even from the childhood, they can see the difference.
Sometimes some children, even all children cry, but some children, they cry in a way that they are going to bring the whole house down. Some babies, even when they are in the crib, they are looking out of the crib thinking, when am I going to take the house over? So, that’s not necessarily being bossy, but some people have that nature. They want to be in charge, want to be in control.
So, the idea is that there is a innate nature. By innate, what it means is that’s what we bring into this body before we are born. And nurture refers to the upbringing.
So, the upbringing influences us. So, for example, the first, the major part of the upbringing is done by the parents. Another part of the upbringing is by the educational system, by the school, the teachers.
So, here, Tavendra Shatru. So, what Shanta and Amarkar are saying is, there is nothing of nurture in this. You are the enemy of Indra.
So, obviously, you will not teach him to worship the lord of Indra, that is Vishnu. And we haven’t done that. So, this is not because of any nurture.
It is the nature of this child. Nai Sargiki. This is just natural for him.
Now, what is natural is sometimes considered to be unchangeable. Now, it’s not entirely unchangeable. There are many aspects to the nature that we have.
But some people are just born, say, with respect to music, tone deaf. If they are tone deaf, no matter what they do, it’s not going to make any difference. They just can’t make any sense of music if they try to learn it.
So, we all can learn to certain extents, but there are certain things which we bring and they can act like a big leap. So, or a big step forward, just like in a race, sometimes some people have a head start. So, if it’s with respect to good qualities, then we have a head start.
If we have brought some good qualities in our nature. If it’s with bad qualities, then we have a head start from the negative side. So, here the teachers of Hiranyakashipu or teachers of Prahlad are telling Hiranyakashipu that we are not responsible for this.
Why? Because Nai Sargiki, this is natural for him. So, now Hiranyakashipu’s anger turned towards Prahlad. So, first he is angry with his teachers and then he speaks to his children, to the child itself.
Shri Narada Vacha, Guru Naivam Pratiprokto, Bhuya Aha Sura Sutam, Nachet Guru Mukhiyam Te, Kuto Bhadra Sati Mati So, Guru Naivam Pratiprokto. Then he heard the words of the teachers. So, here now, earlier it was Guru Putra was referred to, now it is Guru because they are his children’s teachers, son’s gurus.
So, Pratiprokto, when he heard their reply, Bhuya Aha Sura Sutam, then he had initially been speaking to his son because the son was sitting on his lap and he was asking, what did you learn in school today? Then he turned towards the teachers, got angry, but Bhuya, again now he turned towards his son. Aha Sura Sutam, the Asura, Aha means spoke to his son, Nachet Guru Mukhiyam Te. If your gurus have not taught you this, Mukhiyam means their mouth, if you have not learned this from their mouths, Kuto Abhadra Sati Mati, then from where, O Abhadra, Bhadra is auspicious, Abhadra is inauspicious one, Asati Mati.
Where has this devious mentality, this bad inclination come in you from? Where has it come from? Abhadra Asati Mati. So, now these are also strong words to use towards one’s own son, to call a son as an inauspicious one. This kind of things can be, children are very very vulnerable and impressionable.
And if parents speak harsh words to their children, that can cause lifelong psychological damage. So, to call a son sometimes, even this doesn’t happen so much with parents, but sometimes people, sometimes other friends or other kids, they might give some hurtful nicknames. And it can just scar a person for life.
So, Abhadra Asati Mati. So, you inauspicious one, how has your mentality become evil like this, become terrible like this? So, good and evil are categories that are there for everyone. Of course, different people may have different understandings of what is good and what is evil.
That means that, say, whenever there is any conflict, in the past there was the Cold War between America and Soviet Russia. So, Americans would think communism is evil and the communists would think that capitalism is evil. And America is the primary engine of capitalism.
So, that is also evil. So, the idea is good and evil, what people consider good and evil also reflects their own mentality. But these moral categories are there for everyone.
Even people who are liberal, they may say, Oh, we are liberal, we are broad minded. But liberals will very strongly come down on anyone who uses, for example, politically incorrect speech. And they will say, how could you use such words? That’s unacceptable.
You know, people can lose their jobs, their careers, their tenures, just because they use some words which are politically incorrect. So, they consider this is evil. So, everybody has some categorization of good and bad.
Now, whether that categorization is valid or not, that depends on context. So, Prahalad is simply glorifying Vishnu. But Hiranyakashyapu says, this is evil.
This is horrible. How can you do such a thing like this? So, now these are the main theme of our class. What does Prahalad reply? So, Prahalad replies by three classic verses, which are often quoted by Racharyas.
And these verses describe, apparently, Prahalad responds in the, in what might seem to be like the worst possible way. He, firstly, it seems, I’ll just give a background, then we’ll go into the verse, that he seems not to answer the question, but to speak something that will provoke Hiranyakashyapu. So, the question to him was, where did you learn this? How did your mentality become like this? So, here, what does Prahalad answer? So, once consciousness will not be attracted toward Krishna, by other’s instructions or one’s own endeavour, as long as one is caught in worldly enjoyment, is obsessed with worldly enjoyment.
And in this way, because one’s senses are uncontrolled, one will go to hellish conditions. Punah punash charvita charvana. One keeps craving the same pleasures again and again and again and will not get anywhere.
Punah punash. This last line is often talked about. Punah punash charvita charvana.
So, now, in some ways, Prahalad is basically describing the characters, the behaviour and the life of Hiranyakashyapu, that you are devoted, you are sold to enjoying your senses and this will take you to hell. So, what’s going on over here? See, I spent a significant amount of time talking about the word naisargika mati in the previous verse. Because this Prahalad is answering the question by inverting the premise of the question.
So, the question is, how did your consciousness get attracted to Vishnu? And Prahalad is answering the question by telling, why is your consciousness not attracted to Vishnu? Actually, attraction to Vishnu is natural. Naisargika mati. So, it’s not that I am the odd person out here.
It is you all are the odd people out. So, he inverts the premise of the question. And then he says, so, actually, here, matirna krishne parataha swato va.
Parataha and swato. These two words, if you go back to the previous Sanskrit, namat praneetam napara praneetam. So, mata and para.
So, he said that, his teacher said that, I didn’t teach, nor did anyone else teach this to him. No need to go back. Just keep the same verse.
So, no need to go back. So, namat praneetam napara praneetam. So, the idea is, he is saying that actually, one’s consciousness is meant to be naturally attracted to Vishnu.
If it is not attracted, it won’t get attracted, whether you make efforts or others make efforts for you or there are combined efforts. So, parataha swato and mitho. Parataha is others say, others may give you some good instruction.
Practice bhakti, grow in spiritual life, swato. Yes, I also want to do it. And then, ok, let us both work together.
I’ll do this. I’ll wake up in the morning. I’ll do this.
Next I’ll do this. And then somebody comes and checks with us. Are you doing this or you’re not doing it? So, he says, even then it will not happen.
If graha-vratanam. If one is determined to continue enjoying worldly pleasures. So, here Prahlad is making a very serious statement.
He is saying that we all have to make choices in our life. That there is, the Bhagavatam is spoken to Parikshit Maharaj who is about to die. So, in that sense, Parikshit Maharaj has to just renounce all thoughts of this world and focus on Krishna and Krishna’s eternal abode.
So, because that is the context of the Bhagavatam, it is spoken to a person who is about to die. So, therefore, the Bhagavatam has an enormous amount of world rejecting stress. There are many, many verses which simply seem to condemn the world.
So, for example, it might say, oh, family attachment is so dangerous. One’s spouse, one’s children, they are all sources of illusion and entanglement. And now, it is not that those characters, when they are in the grahastha ashram, they speak like that to their family members.
But rather the Bhagavatam is spoken to a person who is about to die. So, if somebody is say on their deathbed and they are devoted, but they are on their deathbed, at the time of death they start worrying. It happened once, I was there, one devotee was nearing his death and his spiritual master was there.
So, do you have any last desires or last fears? Do you have any last desires? So, he said that, you know, he was worried about his family. And then the spiritual master told him, don’t worry about that. We will take care of you.
We will take care of your family. Just don’t think of Krishna right now. So, the idea is that at that point if somebody is about to die, then you cannot focus too much on the world.
You have to focus on our journey towards Krishna. So, similarly, here when Prahlad is speaking, that otherworldly focus is there. He is saying that, if you want to go towards Krishna, you cannot go if you hold on to the world.
Now, graha-vratanam or adhanta-gobhir doesn’t mean that one doesn’t seek to live respectably in the world. But it is when he is talking about a situation where chasing worldly pleasures is the defining purpose of somebody’s life. If somebody, that’s what they think about, is the defining purpose of life, driving purpose of life.
And then they think, oh, I also want to practice bhakti by the side. Well, then the steady attraction to Krishna will not emerge. Because we will see Krishna bhakti through the filter of the fulfilment of our worldly desires.
Now, if my goal is to become, say, the wealthiest person in my entire family or my entire community or whatever, then if that is my goal, I also want to practice bhakti by the side. But you have to start thinking, my bhakti is not helping me earn money. What is the point of doing it? So, Hiranyakashyapu has devoted himself totally to the pursuit of power.
And he is saying, because you sold out, sold your soul to the pursuit of power and pleasure, therefore, your consciousness is not attracted to Vishnu. And what are you doing? You are thinking this pleasure is so great. Actually, worldly pleasure presents itself as new to us.
But actually, it’s nothing new. We have enjoyed sensual pleasures in many, many of our previous lifetimes. There is a social commentator who said that news is basically saying old things happening to new people.
So, it’s not just about sensual pleasure. It is also about worldly events that we have to prepare for them. And so we have to be aware of them.
But we didn’t get too obsessed with them because these things are just temporary. So, we are just doing them again and again and again and they never give any fulfilment. Punah punash charvita charvanana.
Can you go ahead, next slide. So, Prahlad, it’s like replying to fire with fire. He is not being defensive.
Why is my consciousness attracted to Vishnu? He is saying, why is your consciousness not attracted to Vishnu? This is a natural state. First thing he says is that it is because you are determined to enjoy your senses. Then in next verse he says that why might somebody be so stubbornly determined to enjoy their senses? That is because they are misled.
na te viduh svartha gatim hi vishnum durasaya ye bahirartham anina andhaya thandai rupaneya manas te peeshtantra murudam nivaddham So, he says that you are na te viduh svartha gatim hi vishnum. You are not understanding that your svartha gati, your ultimate self-interest is in Vishnu. You are thinking of Vishnu as your enemy and you are thinking I am going over to your enemy side.
No, Vishnu is the soul of your soul. Vishnu is your ultimate self-interest. Svartha gati means the destination that will fulfil our self-interest.
Now, svartha sometimes translated as selfishness. Sometimes we say don’t be selfish, be selfless. So, this is good message to say, but in the biologically speaking and psychologically speaking, we are, biologically speaking, at least we are designed to be survival machines.
So, a book by a biologist was The Selfish Gene, that we are all basically selfish. So, now we have to speak in a way that makes sense to people. So, if you tell somebody who is very, very self-centered, stop being self-centered, become a little selfless.
They will just not be able to hear that. But they say, you know, actually your self-interest is in this. So, what do you mean my self-interest is in this? If we can, like most people, they say, what’s in it for me? So, even when, if we tell people, you know, actually this is good for the world.
Okay, good for the world, let the world do it. Why should I do it? What’s in it for me? So, Prahalad, although he seems to be provocative, he is actually trying to speak in a language that Hiranyakashipu will listen to. He is saying that actually you are interested in yourself.
Yes, but your self-interest, your true self-interest is Vishnu. And if you are thinking differently, that is because durāśayāye bahirarthamāninā. You are not understanding that Vishnu is the whole, you are His part and by satisfying Vishnu, you yourself will be satisfied.
But not understanding this bahirarthamāninā, you are chasing after external things. Durāśayā, but external search, chasing for externals is never going to give any satisfaction. Bahirarthamāninā, that we think the externals are what are important.
They are what really matter in life. And those who think like this, Andhāyathāndhair upanīyamānās. Andhāyathāndhair.
Just as if a blind man leads another blind person, they will all be misled and what will happen to them? They become bound by the force of illusion. Ishtantriyā is they come under control of the force of illusion which is controlled by the Lord. Urudāmnibaddhā and they are very very difficult to give up.
So, what is Prahlad doing over here? The 30th text was, he said actually attraction to Vishnu is natural, but you are not attracted because you are so materially attached. Now, why are you materially attached? Because you have been misled. Now, of course, Prahlad is doing something very sensitive over here also while he is speaking.
Generally, first person is I, second person is you, third person is they. So, generally, if we want to connect with the audience, then we don’t say you do this. No, we should all do like this.
We all can do this. So, we don’t speak down to the audience, rather we speak with them, we join them. But if you want to bash someone, you people are all foolish.
No, what we do is we use a third person. Now, people who think like this are not very intelligent. So, what happens is, now the audience might also have people who think like that, but if we say you think like this, it’s a direct attack on that person.
How dare you criticize me? Yeah, people think like that. Am I like that kind of person? But the ego is, the wise person will understand what is being spoken, but it can be spoken without agitating the ego. So, Prahlad, what is he doing? He is not using the second person at all.
He is using the third person. So, there are people who are materially attached and their consciousness never attracted to Vishnu. Now, why are they so materially attached? Because they have been misled.
And because they are misled, the blind led the blind, and then they got so covered by illusion that they don’t understand things only. Ishya tantrayam urudam nivaddhaha. They are bound by the forces of illusion.
So, in a sense, he is telling Hiranyakashipu, it’s not that you are to be blamed, rather you have been misled and then you have been covered over by the force of illusion. And then, in the last verse which we will be discussing today, can you go to the 32nd verse? He says, if somebody is covered by illusion like this, what is the way out of that illusion? And… So, Naishammatis, the mati of these people, Naisham, tavad urukramangrim, unto urukramangri, unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, who is called Urukrama, one who can take giant steps, that can refer to Vamanadeva, whose three steps covered the whole universe, or it can refer to… Krama can also refer to deeds, one who can do extraordinary deeds, generically. So, the consciousness will not be attracted to the Supreme Lord.
So, anartha apagama, the anarthas will not disappear from the heart. So, bahirarthamaninah, one who thinks, to think that the externals are what matter in life, bahirartha is anartha, it is undesirable in life. Anartha apagamo yadarthaha.
So, those anarthas will not go away, till what point? Unless one bathes oneself in the dust of the lotus feet of the great souls. What are the characteristics of the great souls? Nishkinchananam na vrunitayavat. Those who are nishkinchana, those who have no attachment to anything material.
So, what Prahlad is saying is, that attraction to the material will not decrease, unless we submit to those who have no attraction to the material. Those who have devoted themselves to the transcendental, if we submit to them, then our worldly attachments will go away. So, actually Prahlad is in three verses succinctly describing Hiranyakashipu’s predicament and is also offering a solution.
And he doesn’t tell who has taught him this, why is his conscious naturally attracted. He doesn’t say that, oh, Narada Muni taught me in the womb. He doesn’t want to get his teacher into trouble.
So, he tells this, he mentions this, we could say, indirectly to his students, to his father’s friends, not students, co-students, but we will see that in the next chapter. But here, Prahlad is not trying to get himself off the hook. Oh, you know, I am an innocent child.
Narada Muni taught me this. That’s why, don’t be angry with me. Just believe Narada Muni.
He does not mention Narada Muni at all. What does he do? He gives a philosophical answer, but he gives a hint of the solution. He says that I heard from Narada Muni.
So, now, paada rajo bhi shekam, to bathe oneself in the dust of the lotus feet, actually, it essentially means having a service attitude and serving the great souls. Serving the great souls can be literally doing some seva for them. It can also be hearing from them.
It is said that what blessings come from the dust of the lotus feet, they also come from the words from the lotus mouth of the great souls. So, if we hear their words and try to understand and apply those words, hear them in service attitude, the same purification can also come. So, let’s go to the slide shown.
So, this is the discussion that was there on the scripture, 25 to 32 verses. First, Hiranyakashipu says that why are you teaching them like this? And they say it’s not because of us. It’s Prahlad’s nature.
So, now we will try to see how Prahlad responded in terms of practicals. So, here there was a concept which I was going to speak, but I don’t think, can you go ahead? Just skip this. It’s not be so clear.
See, broadly, there are three kinds of responses we might have. So, whenever any situation comes in our life, we might be assertive, aggressive or passive. So, assertive response is in the mode of goodness.
Aggressive response is in the mode of passion. And passive is in the mode of ignorance. Essentially, say, if somebody criticizes us, somebody attacks us, so passive means we just let the other person walk over us.
Oh, you know, OK, what can I do? You are powerful, I am powerless. We just let the other person walk over us. And we let ourselves be victimized and traumatized by that person.
That is unhealthy. Now, the aggressive response is you did this to me, I will do this to you. If I can’t do this to you right now, I will get power and I’ll hit back at you.
So, if we consider, say, some person is angry or oppressive, the passivity simply increases the oppressiveness of the person. But aggressiveness, it simply increases the conflict. It simply you did this to me, I did this to you and it just goes on and on and on.
So, what we need to be is assertive. Sometimes we think that being spiritual means that we should be tolerant, we should be forgiving. And yes, that is true, we should be tolerant and forgiving.
But we often have certain preconceptions of what tolerance, forgiveness or humility mean. And based on those preconceptions, we might choose a response that is passive. And you may think that actually we are being spiritual, but we are not being spiritual.
We are simply being passive. We are acting in the mode of ignorance and thinking that we are acting in a transcendental way. So, basically, can we move forward? So, humility.
So, Hiranyakashipu was of course arrogant. He thought that he deserved worship, he deserved respect. And Prahalad was humble.
We understand that they are black and white characters. But Prahalad’s humility doesn’t come out as passivity. So, how does his humility come out? Can you go ahead? So, humility is not servility.
It is not that you just become a servile fawner of the other person. That is not a sycophant. That’s not humility.
The essence of humility is that the ego doesn’t come in the way of our service. That means if for my service, I have to take a particular stand, I will take that stand. But if say somebody is insulting me personally, I will tolerate it.
But if somebody is interfering with my service, then the service has to be done. And I will not let my ego determine the response. You spoke this to me, I will speak this to you.
No, not like that. We can look at this inshallah Prabhupada’s life also. Prabhupada, often we hear of him and we may think of him as a Simhaguru as he said his spiritual master was and he himself was.
Simhaguru means the lawyer and teacher. That he was very strong and cutting. But it is not that Prabhupada was always like that.
The point of Prabhupada was that whatever was required for doing his service, he did that. So there are times when Prabhupada, for example, if he reads his book Easy Journey to Other Planets, he is speaking to scientists and he speaks in a very conciliatory, very appealing tone. He says we would like to submit to our scientist friends that there is advanced knowledge even in the Vedic scriptures.
So we beg to submit. Prabhupada would often use that phrase, we beg to submit or I beg to submit, something like that. So we might say that is just the usage of English that Prabhupada learned at that time.
It could be but Prabhupada used that still. He didn’t have to stick to that convention. So the idea is Prabhupada, there was humility at times.
But that does not mean that he did not take strong positions. So for example, when Prabhupada came to India and there are many programs being organized. So the devotees, some of his female disciples had gone to Jaipur to get a set of Deities.
Jaipur is the place to get Deities. So while they were waiting for the Deities to be made, they would go daily to the Radha Govind Temple and they would do kirtans over there. And in that time in the 1970s, these western women wearing sarees and doing Hare Krishna kirtan, it created a sensation.
And many of the patrons of that temple, they came and talked and they were very impressed by the sincerity and the devotion of these ladies. And then they said, what can we do to serve you? Get our spiritual master here. And so organize some programs for him.
And they said, we will happily do this. And they organized grand Pandal program. Prabhupada was so pleased and Prabhupada was proud of his disciples.
He said that, you know, these ladies, they are so amazing that they just went there to do some Deities and now they organized a big program for me. He wrote in his letters and spoke to his guests about how resourceful his disciples were and especially in this case how his female disciples were doing extraordinary things. So then he came there, then he saw the pamphlets that the devotees had made over there.
And it was Bhaktivinand Swami Prabhupada and his foreign disciples. And Prabhupada was a little annoyed by this. Why foreign disciples? Prabhupada said, put there American and British disciples.
So now we say why does he have to put that specifically? See, the point here was Prabhupada had a particular vision. Prabhupada had tried a long time to spread Krishna Bhakti in India and people had just not been interested. So then he went to America, he went to the Western world and he inspired Western people to become devotees.
And because India was enamored by the West, Prabhupada felt if the West takes it up, then Indians will also take it up on seeing how Western people are taking it up. So that was central to his, you could say, his strategy of outreach. And just generic foreign is not as impressive to Indians as is, say, America and Britain.
Say, now I am based in India, I travel across the world. So from India many people go abroad. Some people, especially if they go to the Middle East, they say I am going abroad.
They don’t advertise I am going to the Middle East. Because the Middle East is not considered a particularly glamorous destination. So they just generically say we go abroad.
We are going abroad for work. We are going abroad for this or that. And then say you press them, then they, with a small face, actually I am going to the Middle East.
But if somebody is going to America, it’s like, oh, I am going to the spiritual world. They are so proud of it. So there was this nationalistic sentiment that was there and Prabhupada wanted to channel that so that more and more people would get attracted and come for the programs and then hear his message.
His message was not American. His message was universal. But Prabhupada, when it was required that for his service he take a particular position, he took that position.
There was another time when a devotee was fixing up the room in which Prabhupada was staying. And they had to, Jadurani Mataji, she came to Prabhupada and she said that, Prabhupada, we want to put this picture of a spiritual master above you, behind you. So can I step on your seat? And Prabhupada said, for the service of Krishna, you can step on my head also.
And Prabhupada didn’t just say it like that. Prabhupada actually meant it. For the service of Krishna, anything he was ready to do.
That same Prabhupada, when he was on the streets of Delhi, he would go out in the heat and distribute back to Godhead magazines. So for a devotee, the service is important. And for the service, if one’s ego is to be wounded, a devotee can take the ego to be wounded.
But if for the service, one has to take a firm position, that doesn’t mean that one is not being humble or one is being arrogant. It is one has to be service center. So Prahalad, why is all this discussion important? Prahalad in this context, what is he doing? He is thinking, what is important here? Now, how can I enlighten my father? How can I help my father understand that he is on the path to self-destruction? That his ultimate interest is in devotion to Vishnu.
So that’s why he is giving an answer like this. So Prahalad is not like picking a fight with his father by being arrogant. He is neither passive nor is he aggressive.
He is assertive. Can you go ahead? He is being assertive. And when we are assertive in this way, essentially what happens by this is that sometimes being assertive means we may speak strong words.
So it’s like performing surgery. The surgery has to be performed with care. So sometimes we have to cut through people’s illusions, but it’s like surgery.
A sadhu’s words are said to be like a knife, surgical knife that cuts, but it has to be done carefully. When nothing else is likely to work, surgery is never the first go-to treatment. Try other treatments, if none of them work, then do surgery.
So similarly over here, Prahalad is doing this. So the idea over here is that a devotee, he cannot stereotype a devotee. Although Prahalad is a small devotee, physically speaking, he has a great heart.
He has great faith, great courage, great wisdom. And with that he is responding to Hiranyakashyapu’s questions. Prahalad is a model for all devotees and we all can seek to learn from his example of how we can also practice bhakti in a way that enriches and uplifts us.
So for us, in our situation, we can contemplate when somebody provokes us, somebody makes us, angers us, is our response just I want to get back to you or is it I am powerless, what can I do? But is it that, okay, what is my service over here? What is my purpose over here? And how can I respond best so that my purpose is served? If you keep that thought in mind, you’ll be able to find a constructive way ahead. So I’ll summarize what I spoke today. So we talked about the conversation between Prahalad, between Hiranyakashyapu, Shanda and Amarka and Prahalad.
So it began with Hiranyakashyapu first holding Shanda and Amarka responsible. So the behavior of children, often their guardians are held responsible for that. Shanda and Amarka disown responsibility by saying that this is natural for him.
And then we discussed about nature-nurture discussion. Then Nai Sargi Ki Mati. And then I discussed about, okay, it’s natural, what does it mean? So we discussed about how Prahalad’s answer is assertive.
He answers that actually, that this is natural even for you. But you don’t feel this natural attraction to Vishnu because you are misdirected. Because your consciousness is misdirected because of being materially attached, because of being misled.
But if you submit to devotees, you can also be led properly. And we concluded by discussing about aggressive, assertive and passive behaviors. And humility doesn’t mean servility.
Humility means to not let our ego come in the way of our service. And by focusing on our service, we can respond appropriately to provocative behavior from others. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. So are there any, so there is this exercise. This is what I mentioned.
So are there any, this is a take home exercise which you could conceivably do later and internalize what we discussed. Are there any questions? So how can we understand that a five year old boy can behave like this? Why does Krishna use a five year old child for this pastime? Generally, okay, let’s focus specifics and then go to the universal. Specifics is that Prahalad himself will tell later in the 10th chapter, one of the verses when he is talking with Hiranyakashipur.
At that time he says, My dear Lord, you have sent me to this world to demonstrate the principles of pure devotional service. So Prahalad is in that sense an eternal associate of the Lord. He already has great devotion.
And this is something which is not just the behavior of a five year old child. This is actually the behavior of a very spiritually evolved soul who happens to be in a five year old body. So yes, there is, see there is, there is biology and there is spirituality.
And in normal cases, at least for a certain amount of time, the biology trumps the spirituality. Biology, I don’t want to use the terms, supersedes the spirituality, eclipses the spirituality. So, by the way, is my video visible to you? Okay, good.
Thank you. So for most people, it is the biology that matters the most. Say, most children, they will grow up and later on they may become devotees.
But we see in certain cases, like Bharat Maharaj also, when he became a deer, he had a deer’s body biologically, but his consciousness was evolved. And thus, as a deer, he would not just stay with other people, with other deer, but he would stay near the sage’s hermitage and hear spiritual sound vibrations from them. So in the case of Prahalad, certainly this is not the behavior of an ordinary five year old child.
And we shouldn’t expect that our children will be like this or if our children are not like this, we shouldn’t think that we are not good parents. No, this is extraordinary behavior coming from a previous life. Not just a previous life, it’s coming from the spiritual world actually.
So, that’s the specific explanation for Prahalad’s context. Now, overall, the Bhagavatam has one theme running through it, that is, it inverts all conventional notions of hierarchy. That means, who is better and who is worse.
That inversion is an ongoing theme in the Bhagavatam. Say, for example, the 7th canto. In the 6th canto, there is this conflict between Vritrasura and Indra.
So, normally the Asuras are bad people and the Devatas are good people. But here, it’s inverted. The Asura is a great soul.
The demon is actually a person, a demonic body is a great soul. Because the demon has devotion. Similarly, in the 8th canto, if you see, there is a story of multiple stories.
If we consider, there is a story again of Bali Maharaj, who actually is blessed by Vamanadeva, because Vamanadeva becomes his doorkeeper, although he is a demon. Then we have Ambarish Maharaj and Durvasa Muni. So, Ambarish Maharaj is a Kshatriya and a Grahastha, whereas Durvasa Muni is a Sanyasi and a Brahmana.
But still Ambarish Maharaj is higher. Why? Because he has devotion. So, here, if we see, in terms of, in this pastime, Prahalad’s interactions are described first with Hiranyakashipu and then they are described with the Devatas.
Devatas offer prayers, but they don’t satisfy Vishnu. Prahalad will satisfy Vishnu. So, what happens is, in terms of physical might, Prahalad is no match to Hiranyakashipu.
In terms of exalted birth, Prahalad is no match to Devatas. But still, Prahalad is able to, Prahalad shines as stronger than Hiranyakashipu and stronger than the Devatas also. More influential than the Devatas.
So, the Bhagavatam’s theme is that devotion supersedes all other material considerations. There are material considerations that create certain hierarchies in this world. But if there is devotion, the whole hierarchy gets inverted.
And that’s what is demonstrated through using a 5 year old child to demonstrate such superlative devotion. So, I don’t want to go over time and actually speaking of the verses and explaining those verses took a lot of time. That’s why we couldn’t have much discussion.
But I hope that this gives you a perspective about the richness of the Bhagavatam itself. We can learn lessons from the Bhagavatam, but the Bhagavatam itself is filled with so much sweetness and wisdom. So, if we look at the Sanskrit and try to understand it, just focus on the narrative.
The narrative is filled with a lot of freshness and insight and drama. So, I wanted to give a glimpse of that also when I took these verses. So, thank you very much.