Understanding rasa-lila 2- How Bhagavatam establishes para-dharma without trivializing apara-dharma

[Bhagavatam class on Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.29.18 at ISKCON, Denver, USA]

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Transcribed by: Sadananda Prabhu

Understanding rasa-lila 2- How Bhagavatam establishes para-dharma without trivializing apara-dharma

Today we continue our discussion on the Rasa Lila. Yesterday I talked about how the inconceivable nature of the Rasa Lila can be understood by understanding how the supreme asraya becomes the asritaha; how one who is the shelter of all the existence takes shelter of Yoga-maya. Today we will be taking some verses from this Rasa Panchadhyaya, and I will deeply describe the story line in between, and then I will elaborate on the verses as well as the overall theme.

The verse that we discussed yesterday said, “On seeing the beautiful atmosphere of Sharad, when Krishna saw the flowers in the sky of autumn, he decided to perform pastimes with his gopi’s.” The subsequent verses describe how he plays his flute; and the sound of the flute is so attractive that the gopi’s drop everything and just come running towards him. It is described later in the Gopi Gita how the gopi’s left everything for Krishna. Though all the relatives of the gopi’s were forbidding them from going out, still the gopi’s somehow managed to find a way and reached Krishna. Krishna saw the beauty of the forest and he went deep into the forest, and there he started playing his flute. Krishna has different flutes that he uses for different people. He has a separate kind of flute which he plays to produce some different kind of music. This flute he uses for the cows and the calves. When the cows are grazing outside, Krishna plays the flute music, and then they come back. There is another flute that he has for the gopa’s. When the gopa’s are about to go out in the forest, Krishna comes out from his house and plays the flute, and they all know that they are now meant to go with Krishna, and they come out. And there is a special flute called murali which he uses for calling the gopi’s. When the gopi’s hear this, immediately they know that Krishna is calling them. And when Krishna calls, they just leave everything to go towards Krishna. And as they rush towards Krishna, they are unmindful of everything; they are unmindful even of the thorns that are below them. Many of them are barefoot. They are unmindful of the fact that they have things to do in their homes. They are unmindful even of the fact that they are not dressed so attractively or they are not dressed so properly. I saw a note somewhere. It said, “When a wife says that I will be ready in five minutes or a husband says that he is going to be home in five minutes; both mean the same thing. Neither of them is going to be ready in five minutes.” So, generally, if woman want to go for a special occasion, they take a lot of time to dress and adorn themselves so that they look their best. And here the gopi’s are naturally going towards Krishna who is their lover, but they are so attracted to Krishna that they become even unmindful of the basic sense of looking good. The Bhagavatam gives us this point and stresses that the gopi’s are not even dressed properly though they are naturally very attractive. But they don’t stop to adorn or decorate themselves. The Bhagavatam gives this as an example to illustrate or to indirectly point to the point that this is not mundane consciousness; or in other words, the gopi’s are not bodily conscious when they are going to Krishna. It is their heart that is called by Krishna. And of course, when we serve, we serve with our entire being: with our heart, our mind, our body, with our abilities, with our wealth etc. So, when there is love, we offer our entire being to the person whom we love. The gopi’s are so overwhelmingly attracted to Krishna that they just forget everything else and run toward him. And now when they are in front of Krishna, they see that the object for whom they have vowed to meet is there in front of them. Normally, if this was simply a romantic sequence in a movie, then the hero and heroin meet and they run towards each other and hug each other, but Krishna is actually acting very formally over here. Krishna has played the flute and sees all the gopi’s come over there and he is asking them, “What have you come here for? Is everything well in Vraja? Is there anything wrong in Vrindavana that you have come to inform me about me?” Krishna is not rude towards them, but he is formal towards them. He is saying, “Swagatam (Welcome) mahabhaga (O fortunate ones)!” [ We will come to that in the later part of the class.]

Then Krishna says, “What has pleased or attracted you to come here? Is everything in Vrindavan okay? And please tell me what made you come here?” Generally, in the traditional conservative societies’ woman are a little demure or shy and men are more outgoing. Men are person who woo and woman are the persons who are wooed. So, Krishna by asking this makes the gopi’s very shy. In the next verse it is mentioned that they start drawing lines on the ground with their toes. They feel too shy to answer Krishna and think, “Why is Krishna asking us such a question?” Afterwards, Krishna will say, “Actually this time of the night is not a very safe place for woman to be alone like this. Maybe because the night was so attractive that you wanted to see the beauty of Vrindavana. Now that you have seen the beauty of Vrindavan, please go back.” And as Krishna is speaking all this, he becomes very restless. And then Krishna goes on. First, he says how dangerous it is for the gopi’s to come out at this hour of the night. Then he says, “Sometimes something may be so attractive that you put the danger to the side and you go on to look at it. But now that you have seen it, please go back to the safety of your homes.” And still the gopi’s are reluctant, and then Krishna says, “Actually, for a woman her duty to her family, her brother, to her mother etc. is most important.” And Krishna actually gives a discourse on Sthri Dharma or on the duty of a woman, and how a woman should be chaste and responsible, and should take care of everything in the home. At one level it might just seem either very strange or outrageous because Krishna has himself called all the gopis and because of Krishna all the gopi’s left everything. And yet Krishna is giving them a discourse on how they should stay at home, and even if they have come, that they should go home. So, what is going on over here? Actually speaking, this conversation reflects an essential tension that runs towards the Bhagavatam. Normally tension occurs when there are two forces which are pulling in two different directions. Like, if we have a rubber band and we pull it in two different directions, then there is a tension in the string, and that tension is there because there are two opposite forces. If you have a string also, the string might just be hanging on the ground. If we pull the string, then there is some tension. Some tension is just useless. Say for example, if you pull a string a lot, that pulling of the string doesn’t do anything. It will just break the string, but there is some tension that is constructive. For example, if there is bow, and if in the bow a string is tied. Normally the string itself is tight, but before the arrow is shot with the bow the string is pulled backwards, and when the string is pulled backwards, at that time, that increases the tension. Now the two ends of the string are fixed, and when we pull back in between, then the tension in the string increases, and it is the tension of the string that gives power to the arrow. The greater the tension is in the string, the greater is the force with which the arrow will be shot forwards. Sometimes we may think that fighting with a mace or wrestling requires strength, but even archery requires a lot of strength, especially if you go to shoot the arrow over a long distance. And if you want the arrow to be shot with such force that it will penetrate into some object, it will require a great amount of strength. So, archery also requires strength of the arms. It is not just about the skill in hitting the target. The point I am making is that tension pushes things forwards. This example is to illustrate that there is difference between a contradiction and a paradox. A contradiction is when there are two opposite statements. They are like, when we have a string and we just pull it in two opposite directions, all that happens is that the string weakens and breaks. That is, if you make two contradictory statements, then they just contradict; but there is a contradiction and there is a paradox. In a paradox there are apparent contradictions, but actually a deeper truth is conveyed through the apparently contradictory statements in the paradox. So, paradox is not a contradiction. In the paradox it is the apparent contradiction that draws the attention, and that helps us to go towards deeper comprehension. If you just hear two opposite statements; say, if at the beginning of the class I make a statement, but at the end of the class if I make a statement which is just contradictory, then all that you might says is, “This person speaks incoherently.” So, if a contradiction comes at two distinct phases after some time-lag, then it may seem that these are two contradictory statements that are being made and this person is not coherent. But if two contradictory points come in the same statement, then we understand that the contradiction which is there is not accidental, but is intentional. Some might forget what I had said earlier, and then they may say something later, and that’s how they may contradict themselves. But if the same statement somebody is making for opposite points, then something deeper is being conveyed over there. Some example of paradoxes could be, “When a teacher is assessing the papers of a student, he may say that the least corrected papers are the most correct.” Now it is true if you think about it. The least corrected and the most corrected might seem contradictory at first glance, but the least corrected means that the teacher has not put a red mark anywhere. The least number of red marks that are there means that, everything that is there in the paper is correct. This is a statement which might seem contradictory, but there is deeper point which is being conveyed over there. Similarly, in a paradox the tension is like the tension in the strings of an arrow. There are two statements which are in a sense opposite, but there is some point which is to be conveyed, and that point is like the string being pulled backwards to push the arrow forwards. So, the understanding is deepened when we look at the paradox and understand what exactly is being conveyed by the tension in the statements. What is the tension that is there in the Bhagavatam over here? The tension here is that the Bhagavatam is talking about two levels of dharma: there is aparadharma and there is paradharma. Aparadharma is material religion. Material religion would mean that we do religion by which we can have material wellbeing in this world. Traditionally this is conceived of in four terms: dharma, artha, kama and moksha. Dharma refers to the various social, familial, national and legal rules that sustains the order in the society.

Dharma itself can have many different meanings, but Dharma here inclusively means not just religious rituals or religious morality or rules. It refers to everything that sustains order at the material level. That’s why Krishna in the first chapter of the Bhagavad-gita – Arjuna is very concerned about Kula dharma sanatanaha. He says, If the Kula dhama is destroyed, then the whole society will be plagued with irreligion. What is Kula dharma? Kula refers to dynasty. So, in a dynasty, traditionally now we have nuclear families. In the past there were joint families, and joint families provided a much bigger support system to people. Say, if there are two or three brothers who were in the same family and one brother somehow passed away, and then his children are there who have become almost like orphans. Then the other brother will take care of everyone and this family also because it is a part of the bigger family. So, Arjuna is telling over there, “If I fight in this war – then practically all the elders from both the sides and all the responsible breadwinners from both the sides have come over here, and if they are all killed, then who will protect the children and the women, who will make sure that the dharma is preserved?” So, Kuladharma refers to the set of responsibilities that make sure that the dynastic order goes on properly. Like that there are different dharmas for different contexts and people in different situations, and these dharmas are meant to preserve order in the society, and when this is there, the dharma leads to artha. If order is preserved in the society, then there can be fulfilment of material desires. Even if we have money and we go to the supermarket to purchase some things, but if there is no order in the society and if the economy is disrupted, then the channels of communication and transportation is disrupted. If the grains from the villages or the farms don’t come to the cities, then the whole order is not there and we will not be able to fulfill our desires. So, order leads to the fulfilment of desires. Order leads to the provision of the resources which are money and other things. That leads to artha, and artha leads to kama. Now there is this big hurricane that is coming in Carolina; when the hurricane Florence is coming, at that time, it is the normal duty of the government to look after things, but then there is a duty called apadharma which means emergency duty. That means, “How do we prepare when an emergency comes, how do we deal with it?” This is also at one level maintaining order which is dharma. When dharma is maintained, then artha and kama are taken care of. Artha is our financial resources for getting our desires to be fulfilled; this is called Kama. Here the word Kama is not used in a negative or restrictive sense of lust alone. Kama refers that all have desires, and fulfilling desires is itself not the problem. It is the obsession with the desire that is the problem. Often, we give the example that if we scratch and itch, then it will worsen the itch and will become more and more agitated. That means that if we indulge in our desire, the desires will become worse. Now that is definitely true, but it is not universally true. What do I mean by that? “If say, I get an itch in my face and I want to scratch it. When I get the urge, I can scratch the skin, and it is over. But when the skin already has a scratch, and then when we scratch it, it gets inflamed and agitated. So, it is not scratching; scratching may be distracting, but is not always damaging. But when the scratching of the skin is done on a diseased skin or scratching is done so much that the skin becomes diseased, then it is a problem. So, Kama is not itself a problem. It is duspurita kama which is the problem. Duspurit means insatiable desire. That is the problem. For example, if we go to the Govinda’s restaurant to have prasadam, we have almost twenty items every day. We will of course select what we want to have based on our preference. Sometimes our preference might be by health and sometimes it might be by taste. Now if we take food according to our taste, is that indulgence in desire? Well, we could say that it is indulgence, but it not destructive indulgence. It is prasad and we are taking it in a reasonable quantity which is perfectly fine. So, Kama or desire is not to be demonized. It is only disproportionate desire or obsessive desires that is bad. It is Kama which takes us against dharma, and that is the problem. When Kama makes us give up dharma, that’s when it becomes a problem.

When I do seminars in companies, at that time often people ask this question, “How do we know the difference between ambition and greed?” In today’s competitive environment if anybody has to survive, they have to have ambitious.” So, we see that ambition is driving force of business in today’s world. How is ambition differentiated from greed? It is when the ambition makes us cross over ethical boundaries, that is when it becomes greed. Ambition is natural and is also essential, but if because of ambition we start giving up ethics; that means that when our Kama makes us give up dharma, that is when it becomes Lobha. When the desire makes us give up dharma, then that is when it becomes lobha or greed. The point I am making over here is that dharma, artha and kama are the paradigms of the society in the Vedic culture, and the Bhagavatam assumes the existence of this in the society. And the Bhagavatam is not intending to disrupt or reject this. Till now I talked about dharma, artha and kama which are apara dharma. Apara dharma is important. It becomes a problem when it becomes a competitor to paradharma. Paradharma is service to Krishna. It is focusing on loving and serving Krishna, and practicing Bhakti towards Krishna, so that we can attain dharma or attain him, attain love for him and ultimately attain him. That is paradharma. So, we do call it as spiritual religion and material religion. Apara dharma is material religion; para dharma is spiritual religion. So, the Bhagavatam is taking us from apara dharma to para dharma. It is telling us that we have to focus completely on Krishna. Now if we see the life of Parikshit Maharaja, he lived a very dharmic life even when he was a king. He was as great devotee and he was ruling the kingdom according to the principles of dharma, but when he got the curse to die in seven days he gave up his apara dharma and focused entirely on para dharma. He just absorbed himself in hearing about Krishna and chanting about Krishna.

So, the tension in the Bhagavatam is – I talked about the essential tension in the Bhgavatam. That is, that there is a tension between apara and para dharma. Apara is material religion and para dharma is spiritual religion. So, Krishna through the Bhagavatam encourages us to take up Para dharma, but not by whimsically rejecting the para dharma. He wants us to take up spiritual religion, but not by whimsically, arbitrarily or abruptly rejecting material religion. And to highlight this point lets consider a contrast between this pastime and a pastime that happens about six chapters earlier. In the same tenth canto, the twenty-third chapter describes Krishna’s pastimes with the Brahmana patnis or with the wives of the Yajnik brahmanas. I won’t go into the whole story, but the yajnik brahmanas are performing a big yajna and Krishna’s cowherd friends go to them asking for food. But they neglect the cowherd boys and then Krishna tells his cowherd friends to go their wives, and the wives not only give food, but they actually bring the food with them. There also the setting is similar. The husbands want their wife to be with them because yajna has to be performed with the husband and wife together. But the Brahmana patni’s neglect their husbands and they rush to meet Krishna, and there also they have given up everything for Krishna, and when Krishna tells them to go back, they say, “We can’t go back O Krishna. We left everything to come and surrender to you. You telling us to go back is like the ocean telling the river that started from the mountain top and raced down to the ocean, to go back when it is about to meet the ocean. But Krishna at that time tells them, “Yes you have come to me and you have surrendered to me. Yes, I accept your surrender, and now I request you to continue this mood of surrender while going back to your eternal position. I am not asking you to go back to material life in material consciousness. Go back to material life in spiritual consciousness. You can serve me wherever you are, you can serve me by remembering me, by longing for my association and by inner absorption in me.” There actually Krishna tells the Brahmana patnis to do that and they do it, and here also Krishna tells the Gopi’s, “Why have you come here?” and he tells later, “You should go back.” And Krishna tells the gopi’s to go back but the gopi’s do not go back. That means here we see that there is aparadharma and there is para dharma; there is material religion and there is spiritual religion. So, in the case of the Yagnik brahmin patni’s, they give up their material religion to practice spiritual religion. That means that they neglect the restrictions that are imposed by their husbands on them and still they come towards Krishna. Krishna accepts their worship and their service, but tells them to go back and serve internally or serve through inner absorption; whereas when the gopi’s come to him, they also leave their family members and come to Krishna. And Krishna performs pastimes with them. That means, performing the worldly duties is aparadharma and performing the transcendental duties to service to Krishna is the paradharma. The Bhagavatam stresses paradharma as the ultimately purpose of life, but it does not trivialize apara dharma. It recognizes apara dharma to be also important. Later on, in this tenth canto it will be described how the pastime of the King Nriga who had been cursed by Brahmanas because he had displeased them as the charity that he had given had gone wrong. He gave many cows in charity to one brahmana, and he gave many cows in charity to another brahmana. But one cow from one side came to another side and both brahmanas got upset by that. The king said, “I will give you more cows. Just forget it.” But the brahmanas were still upset, and because he had displeased the brahmana, the brahmanas cursed him and he became a lizard. Now you may say, “The brahmana should be understanding. What difference does one cow make to them? And why do they have to curse like this? It was such a small mistake.” Now here, the Bhagavatam is demonstrating the inadequacy of apara-dharma. If in material consciousness we give charity, it is a very laudable thing to do. But something or the other will go wrong at the material level. That is one point that is illustrated. But you may say, “Ok, you want to illustrate this, but why that brahmana seem to behave in unreasonable ways?” We will see this theme again and again in the Bhagavatam that the Brahmanas often get angry and curse, and yet the Bhagavatam doesn’t criticize or condemn the brahmanas. The Bhagavatam says, “Those who are devoted to Krishna are greater than brahmans even if they are not born in a brahmana family.”
Prahlada Maharaja says, “Even if a brahmana is ornamented with all the twelve qualities, but if that brahmana does not have devotion to Lord Hari – the twelve qualities that the brahmana has are: he has knowledge, he has realization, he can perform yajnas nicely, recite mantras nicely, he can do all the priestly duties etc. But if the brahmana does not have devotion, then, even if a person is lowborn, but that person has devotion, then that person can deliver not only oneself, but even one’s descendants. One can deliver even one’s whole dynasty. So, the Bhagavatam does stress, “If there is a contrast between brahmanas and devotees or Vaisnavas, that the Vaisnavas are way greater than brahmanas.” But at the same time the Bhagavatam does not trivialize the brahmanas. That’s why we see that in the same pastime of Nriga, after it gets over, the Lord very strongly cautions his sons. Samba is his son who ran back on seeing the lizard in the well, and he informed the palace assembly, and then Krishna comes and rescues that lizard. And then Krishna tells the story of the past life of the lizard, and he gives a very strong instruction saying that, “Never offend brahmanas.” And Ballabhacharya especially explains in his commentary that this is a premonition that later on samba will be a part of the young people in the Yadu dynasty who offend the Brahmanas. Samba pretends to be like a pregnant woman and asks the Brahmanical sages, “Please tell us, is this child going to be a boy or a girl?” The sages get angry and they say, “You think that you are going to make fun with us?” and they curse. So, brahmana’s devotion and the Vaisnavas are glorified. Bhaktas are glorified in the Bhagavatam but the Brahmanas are not trivialized. Similarly, here Krishna is demonstrating and highlighting through these pastimes the glorious devotion of the gopi’s; that they are ready to give up everything for Krishna. At the same time although they are ready to give up everything for Krishna, Krishna sounds a cautionary note by telling, “You are meant to follow your duty.” So, in exceptional situations the apara dharma can be given up to follow the para dharma. In normal situations we do our apara dharma in a mood of devotion. So, some people may just leave their whole family and become devoted to the service of the Lord in the renounced order. But most people have their family, will have their careers, will have their jobs, and along with that they will serve Krishna. So, the para dharma doesn’t necessarily require giving up the apara dharma, but the para dharma can be perceived along with the apara dharma. So, we could say that there are three modes: tamo guna, satwa guna and rajo guna, and then there is suddwa satwa or transcendence. So, devotees are meant to operate at a transcendental level. Their devotion exists at a transcendental level. But at the same time while we are functioning in the world, it is good if we can come to satwa guna because if we are in satwa guna, which Prabhupada translates as the mode of goodness, we will become peaceful. In satwa guna there is regulation, order, balance, and there is morality, and that’s how we can function properly. So, in emergency situations, ordinary morality can be given up for spiritual morality, but in most situations that should not be done. For example, we have in the Caitanya Caritamrita that Sanatan Goswami is being imprisoned by Nawab Hussain Shah for no fault of his. His only fault was that he wanted to surrender to Lord Caitanya’s mission and the Nawab said, “No, you have to serve as my minister.” And Rupa Goswami slipped away but Sanatan Goswami was trapped. At that time Sanatan Goswami, who at that time had temporarily converted to Islam, told the jail keeper who was a Muslim, “Actually I wanted to renounce the world so that I can make a pilgrimage to mecca.” In Islam going to Mecca is considered to be a very pious activity. It is a life long aspiration for many Muslims to go at least once to Mecca. So, Sanatan Goswami said, “I want to at least go to Mecca once.” Then he said, “If somebody is able to go to Mecca, all those who help them in that pilgrimage also get the credit of going to Mecca. So, if you release me from jail, then you will also get the credit of having helped a person to do this pilgrimage.” Now the jailor knows that Santana Goswami has no intension of going to Mecca and that he is going to meet Caitanya Mahaprabhu who is source of all purity of all pure places. In a sense we could say that he is going to the supreme abode of holiness. So, he speaks that lie over there for pursuing the purpose of the ultimate truth. But that does not mean that a devotee can habitually speak lies. Normally we should speak truth. Otherwise, if we start habitually speaking lies for the sake of some higher service, then there will be no trust in the devotee community, and there will be no trust between devotees and outside people. Generally, outsiders who are not practicing bhakti will not appreciate Bhakti principles. However, they will appreciate our Satwa guni behavior. If they see that we are gentle, we are moderate, we are courteous and we are truthful, then they will think, “They are really nice and good people. I want to know what makes them like that.” So, in emergency situations the apara dharma can be given up to achieve the para dharma, but in most situations para dharma which is pure devotion to Krishna is to be practiced in harmony with one’s worldly vocations and with one’s worldly situations. Now what was the extraordinary nature of the gopi’s because of which they gave up apara dharma and took up para dharma? What is the nature of the extraordinary devotion of the gopi’s and what Krishna is teaching through this? We will discuss in our future sessions.

I will summarize:
I spoke about how the Bhagavatam has that essential tension between apara and para dharma. The Bhagavatam transcends apara dharma (material religion) to take us to para dharma which is spiritual religion, but the Bhagavatam doesn’t trivialize apara dharma. I started by talking about the difference between the paradox and the contradiction. Contradictions are like two forces in the rope or a string pulling in the opposite directions; paradox is like the tension in the bow string which gives force for the arrow to move forwards. Similarly, the paradox has contradictory points within it, but those contradictory points take us deeper to the understanding of a higher truth which is implicit within those seemingly contradictory statements. So, in the context of the rasa lila, the contradictory points are that Krishna himself has played the flute, and specifically the flute which is meant to call the Gopi’s. And he has called the gopi’s in the night and has called them so attractively and forcefully that they left everything to come to him, and yet that same Krishna is telling them, “Why have you come here? Is it to see the beauty of Vrindavan forest. If you seen the beauty, then go back now.” And he reminds them of the duty as ladies of the home. So, why is Krishna doing this. Krishna is doing this to illustrate that the rejection of dharma cannot be done trivially. We normally honor the limits of dharma, and occasionally and exceptionally the apara dharma can be given up to practice para dharma. So, apara dharma is dharma, artha and kama, leading ultimately to moksha.

There can be different kinds of religious, social, cultural and legal order which helps to maintain the balance in the society by which people can have financial resources and fulfill the desires. Kama itself is not bad; it is the Duspura Kama or the insatiable desire which is the problem. Scratching ordinary skin is not a big issue, but scratching diseased skin or scratching till the point when the skin become diseased is the problem. Ordinary fulfilling of desires becomes problematic if it makes one give up dharma. So, ambition become greed when it tramples ethical boundaries. Apara dharma maintains order in the society, and then Krishna stresses apara dharma. I discussed through the pastimes of the Yajnic brahmana patnis, who are the wives of the brahmanas, how they came to the forest giving up everything for Krishna, and how he accepted their surrender. But then Krishna told them to continue their service in their social position. And I talked about how the brahmanas are considered the highest among the traditional Vedic society, but the Bhagavatam stresses that devotees are far greater than brahmanas if the brahmanas are not devoted. At the same time, even if the brahmanas are not devoted, and even if the brahmanas are acting unreasonably, cursing on a slight provocation, still the brahmanas need to be respected. So, we could say brahmanas represent apara dharma and devotees represent the para dharma. Apara dharma is to be respected and not to be trivialized, but apara dharma need to be given up to follow para dharma.

Sanatan Goswami was normally very truthful and was of impeccable integrity, but when for surrendering to Lord Caitanya he had to speak a lie that he was going to Mecca, he did that. So, occasionally and exceptionally a devotee may give up apara dharma to practice para dharma, but normally a devotee practices material morality or satwaguni values while pursuing spiritual devotion.

Thank you very much.

End of transcription

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. So, today we continue our discussion on the Raas Leela. Yesterday I talked about how the inconceivable knowledge of the Raas Leela can be understood by how the supreme ashraya becomes the ashrita, the one who is the shelter of all of existence, take shelter of yoga maya.
So the way we will be going over is, we’ll take some verses from this Raj Panchadhyay and I’ll briefly describe what has happened in the storyline in between and then elaborate on the verse as well as the overall theme. So the verse which we discussed yesterday said that on seeing the beautiful atmosphere of Sharad, Sharadot full Mallika, we saw the flowers in the sky of autumn, Krishna desired to perform pastimes with his gopis. And then subsequent verses describe how he plays his flute and the sound of the flute is so attractive that the gopis drop everything and just come running towards him.
Describe later that in the Gopi Gita they will tell how they left everything for Krishna. So they say all their relatives were forbidding them from going out and still the gopis somehow managed to find a way and reach Krishna. So Krishna, he saw the forest and he went out, saw the beauty of the forest and he went deep into the forest and there he started playing the flute.
And Krishna has different flutes that he uses for different people. He has a flute which is a separate kind of flute which plays a different kind of music which he uses for the cows and the cows. So when the cows are grazing outside, Krishna plays the flute music and then they come back.
There is another flute which he has for the gopis when they are about to go out in the forest. There are so many gopas who come out with him. So Krishna comes out of his house and plays the flute and they all know, oh, we are meant to now go.
They all come out. And there is a special flute, the murli, which he uses for calling the gopis. And when they hear this, immediately they know that Krishna is calling us.
And when Krishna calls, they just leave everything to go towards Krishna. And as they rush towards Krishna, they are unmindful of everything. They are unmindful of the thorns that are below them.
Many of them are barefoot. They are unmindful of the fact that they have things to do in their homes. They are unmindful even of the fact that they are not dressed so attractively.
They are not dressed so properly. I saw a note somewhere. It said that when a woman says, I will be ready in five minutes, when a wife says, I will be ready in five minutes, and when a husband says, I will be home in five minutes, both mean the same thing.
Neither is going to be ready in five minutes. So generally, women, if they want to go for a special occasion, they take a lot of time to dress themselves and adorn themselves so that they look their best. And here, the gopis are naturally going towards Krishna, who is their lover.
But they are so attracted to Krishna that even the basic sense of looking good, they become even unmindful of that. So the Bhagavatam gives us this point. It stresses that the gopis are not even dressed.
They are naturally very attractive, but they don’t stop to adorn or decorate themselves. So the Bhagavatam gives this as an example to illustrate, to indirectly point to the point that this is not mundane consciousness. The gopis are not bodily conscious when they are going to Krishna.
It is their heart that is called by Krishna. And of course, when we serve, we serve with our entire being, with our heart, with our mind, with our body, with our abilities, with our wealth. So when there is love, we offer our entire being to the person whom we love.
So the gopis, they are so overwhelmingly attracted towards Krishna that they just forget everything else and run towards Him. And now, when they are in front of Krishna, they see the object for whom they are about to meet. He is there in front of them.
And normally, if this were a simple and ordinary romantic sequence in a movie, then the hero and heroine meet and they run towards each other and hug each other tightly. But Krishna actually is acting very formally over here. Krishna has played the flute.
He sees all the gopis come over there and now he is asking them, what have you come here for? Is everything well in Vraja? Is there something wrong in Vrindavan that you have come to inform me about it? He says, Swagatam, welcome. Krishna is not rude towards them, but is formal towards them. Welcome.
And Mahabhaga, you fortunate ones. So it’s interesting, the word Mahabhaga will come to that towards the later part of the clause. Priyam kim karavani vaha.
He says, what has pleased you, what has attracted you to come here? And is everything in Vrindavan okay? And please tell me, what made you come here? Now, normally, here, generally in the traditional conservative societies, women are little demure, shy, and men are more outgoing. Men are the persons who woo and women are the persons who are rude. So Krishna, by asking this, makes the gopis very shy.
And they start, we’ll describe in the next line, next verse, they start drawing lines on the ground with their toes. They feel too shy to answer Krishna, why is Krishna asking such a question? And Krishna afterwards will say that, actually, this night is not a very safe place for you women to be alone like this. Maybe it was that the night is so attractive, and you wanted to see the beauty of Vrindavan.
So now that you’ve seen the beauty of Vrindavan, please go back. And as Krishna is speaking all this, he becomes very restless. And then Krishna goes on.
So first he talks about how it’s dangerous to come out. Then he says, okay, but sometimes it might just, something may be so attractive, it would danger to the side and just want to look at it. But you’ve seen it.
Now please go back to the safety of your homes. And still the Gopis are reluctant. And then Krishna says, actually, for a woman, her duty to her family is most important, to her husband, to her father, to her brother.
That is the duty which is most important. And he actually gives, you could say, almost like a discourse on Sthri Dharma, on the duty of a woman, and how a woman should be chaste and responsible and take care of everything at home. And now at one level, it might seem just either very strange or very outrageous, that Krishna has only called the Gopis, Krishna’s call has made them leave everything.
And yet Krishna is giving them a discourse on how they should have stayed at home and they should not, even if they have come now, they should go back home. So what is going on over here? Actually speaking, this conversation reflects an essential tension that runs throughout the Bhagavatam. Normally, tension occurs when there are two forces which are pulling into different directions.
If we have a rubber band and we pull it into opposite directions, then there’s a tension in the string. And the tension is because there are two opposite forces. If you have a string also, the string might just be hanging on the ground.
Pull the string, then there’s tension. Now some tension is just useless. Say for example, if you just pull a string a lot, that pulling of the string does not do anything.
It just will break the string. But there is some tension that is constructive. If there is a bow, and in the bow the string is tied, so normally the string itself is tied, but before the bow, before the arrow is shot with the bow, the string is pulled backwards.
And when the string is pulled backwards, at that time that increases the tension. Now these two ends are fixed. The two ends of the string are fixed.
And when you pull back in between, what happens? The tension in the string increases. And it is the tension of the string that gives power to the arrow. The greater the tension in the string, the greater is the force with which the arrow will be shot forwards.
So sometimes you may think that, okay, fighting with a mace requires strength or wrestling requires strength. But even archery requires a lot of strength, especially if you want to shoot the arrow over a long distance, and especially if you want the arrow to be shot with such force that it will penetrate into some object. So archery also requires strength of the arms.
It is not just skill in shooting the target. The point I am making is, tension pushes things forwards. So this example is to illustrate that there is a difference between a contradiction and a paradox.
A contradiction is when there are two opposite statements and they are like, we have a string and just pull it in two opposite directions. All that happens is the string weakens and breaks. That is, if we make two contradictory statements, then they are just contradictory.
But there is a contradiction and there is a paradox. In a paradox, there are apparent contradictions. But actually a deeper truth is conveyed through the contradictory statements, apparently contradictory statements in the paradox.
So paradox is not a contradiction. In the paradox, the tension is what, the apparent contradiction is what draws attention and that helps us to go towards deeper comprehension. If we just hear two opposite statements, if at the beginning of a class I make one statement, at the end of class I make another statement which is contradictory, then all that you might say is that this person speaks incoherently.
So, if a contradiction comes at two distinct phases after some time lag, then it may seem that these are two contradictory statements that were made and this person is not coherent. But if two contradictory points come in the same statement, then what is going on? Then we understand the contradiction there is not accidental, it is intentional. Somebody might forget what I had said earlier and then they may say something later and that is why they might contradict themselves.
But in the same statement, somebody is making opposite points, then something is, something is deeper is being conveyed over here. So some examples of paradoxes could be, say a teacher who is assessing the papers of a student. The teacher may say that the least corrected papers are the most correct.
The least corrected papers are the most correct. Now it is true, if you think about it. Now least corrected and most corrected, it might seem contradictory at first glance.
But least corrected means the teacher has not put a red mark anywhere, the least number of red marks that are there, that means everything that is in the paper is there is correct. So this is a statement which might seem contradictory, but there is a deeper point being conveyed over there. So similarly in a paradox, the tension is like the tension in the strings of an arrow.
There are two statements which are in a sense opposite, but there is some point which is like, which is to be conveyed and that point is like the string being pulled backwards to be pushed the arrow forwards. So the understanding is deepened when we look at the paradox and understand what exactly is being conveyed by the tension in the statements. So what is the tension that is there in the Bhagavatam over here? The tension here is that the Bhagavatam is talking about two levels of dharma.
There is Aparadharma and Paradharma. Aparadharma is material religion. Material religion would mean that we do religion by which we can have material well-being in this world.
Traditionally this is conceived of in four terms, Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha. Dharma refers to the various social, familial, national, legal rules that are there that sustain the order in society. The word dharma itself can have many different meanings, but dharma here inclusively means not just religious rituals or religious morality or religious rules.
It refers to everything that sustains order at the material level. That’s why Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita in the first chapter, Arjuna is very concerned about Kuladharmah Sanatana. He says, Dharme nashte kulam kusnam adharmabhibhavatyautah.
He says if the Kuladharma is destroyed, then the whole society will be plagued with irreligion. What is Kuladharma? Kula refers to dynasty. So in a dynasty, traditionally, now we have nuclear families.
In the past there were joint families. And joint families provided a much bigger support system to people. So say if there were two, three brothers who were in the same family and one brother somehow passes away and then his children are there, they have become almost like orphans now.
Then the other brother will take care of everyone, will take care of this family also. Because it’s a part of the bigger family. So Arjuna is telling over there, if I fight in this war, then practically all the elders from both the sides, all the responsible breadwinners from both the sides have come over here.
And if they’re all killed, then who will protect the children? Who will protect the women? Who will make sure that Dharma is preserved? So Kuladharma refers to the set of responsibilities which make sure that the dynastic order goes on properly. So like that, there are different dharmas for different contexts, for different people, in different situations. And these dharmas are meant to preserve order in society.
And when this is there, then what happens? Dharma leads to Artha. If order is preserved in society, then there can be fulfilment of material desires. Even if we have money and we go to a supermarket to purchase some things, but if there is no order in society, if the economy is disrupted, the channels of communication and transportation are disrupted, if the grains from the villages or the farms don’t come to the cities, if the stocks are manufactured elsewhere don’t come to the place, if the whole order is not there, we will not be able to fulfil our desires.
So order leads to the fulfilment of desires. Order leads to the provision of the resources, that is financial money and other things. Dharma leads to Artha, and Artha leads to Kama.
So, now there is this big hurricane that is coming in Carolina. When this hurricane Florence is coming, now at that time there is a normal duty of the government to look after things. But then there is a duty, Apadharma.
Apadharma is emergency duty. That means when an emergency comes, how do we prepare for it? How do we deal with it? So, this is also at one level, maintaining order is Dharma. Dharma when it is maintained, Artha and Kama are taken care of.
Artha is financial resources for getting our desires to be fulfilled, which is Kama. Here the word Kama is not used in a negative or restrictive sense of lust alone. Kama refers to we all have desires.
And desires, fulfilling desires is itself not the problem. It is obsession with the desire that is the problem. So, often we give the example that if we scratch and itch, then it will worsen.
And it will become more and more agitated. And that is the example which we use for, if we indulge in our desire, the desires will become worse. Now that is definitely true, but it is not universally true.
What do I mean by that? If an ordinary skin, if we get an urge to scratch, say I want to scratch my face. If the skin is ordinary and you get an urge to scratch your face, scratch it over there. Get the urge, scratch and it’s over.
It’s when the skin already has a rash and then when you scratch it, then it’s what gets inflamed. It’s what gets agitated. So, it is not scratching.
Scratching may be distracting, but scratching is not always damaging. Scratching. But when the scratching of itch is done on a diseased skin, or scratching is done so much so that by which the skin becomes diseased, then it is a problem.
So, kama is not itself a problem. It is dushpurat kama, dushpurat insatiable desire. That is the problem.
We all may have, say after this program, after this class we will have prasad. Now in prasad, if there are 3-4 items or when you go to, here we go to the restaurant of Govinda’s, we have like almost 20 items every day. Now we all will select what we want to eat based on our preference.
Now preference, I like to eat this. Some things, our preference might be by health. Sometimes it might be our taste.
Now if we take food according to our taste, is that indulgence in desire? Well, we could say it is indulgence. But it is not destructive indulgence. It is prasad and we are taking it in a reasonable quantity.
It is perfectly fine. So, kama is not to be demonized. Desire is not to be demonized.
It is only disproportionate desire. Obsessive desire. It is kama which takes us against dharma.
That is the problem. So, dharma aviruddho bhuteshu kamo smibhar darshaba. When kama takes us, when kama makes us give up dharma, that is when it becomes a problem.
When I do seminars in companies, at that time, often people ask this question, how do we know the difference between ambition and greed? In today’s competitive environment, anybody has to survive, they have to be ambitious. Oh, we got this much turnover, we want to get this turnover, we want to build this product. So, ambition is a driving force of business in today’s world.
So, how is ambition differentiated from greed? It is when the ambition makes us cross over ethical boundaries. That is when it becomes greed. Ambition is natural.
It is essential also. But when because for the ambition, we start giving up ethics. That means when our kama makes us give up dharma, that is when it becomes lobha.
When the desire makes us give up dharma, that is when it becomes lobha, greed. So, the point I am making over here is, that dharma artha kama are the paradigms of natural, of the society in the Vedic culture. And the Bhagavatam assumes the existence of this society.
And the Bhagavatam is not intending to disrupt or reject this. So, this is all that I talked about dharma artha kama, this is aparadharma. Aparadharma is important.
It becomes a problem when it becomes a competitor to paradharma. Paradharma is service to Krishna. It is focusing on loving Krishna and serving Krishna and practicing bhakti towards Krishna so that we can attain him.
Attain love for him and ultimately attain him. That is paradharma. So, we could call it as spiritual religion and material religion.
Aparadharma is material religion. Paradharma is spiritual religion. So, the Bhagavatam is taking us from aparadharma to paradharma.
It is telling us that we have to focus completely on Krishna. Now, Parikshit Maharaj had lived a very dharmic life, even when he was a king. He was a great devotee and he was ruling the kingdom according to the principles of dharma.
But, when he got the curse to die in seven days, he gave up his aparadharma and focused entirely on paradharma. So, he just absorbed himself in hearing about Krishna and chanting about Krishna. So, the tension between the Bhagavatam is, I talked about the essential tension in the Bhagavatam, that is, that there is a tension between aparadharma and paradharma.
Aparadharma is material religion and paradharma is spiritual religion. So, Krishna, through the Bhagavatam, encourages us to take up paradharma, but not by whimsically rejecting aparadharma. He wants us to take up spiritual religion, but not by whimsically, arbitrarily, abruptly rejecting material religion.
And to highlight this point, let’s consider a contrast between this pastime and a pastime that happens about six chapters earlier in this same 10th canto. The 23rd chapter describes Krishna’s pastime with the Brahmana patnis, with the wives of the Yajic Brahmanas. I won’t go into the whole story, but the Yajic Brahmanas, they are performing a big yajna.
Krishna’s cowherd friends go to them asking for food. They neglect the cowherd boys. And Krishna tells his cowherd friends to go to their wives.
And the wives not only give food, they actually bring the food with them. And there also the setting is similar. The husbands want their wives to be with them because the yajna has to be performed with husband and wife together.
But they neglect their husbands and they rush to meet Krishna. And there also, they’ve given everything up for Krishna. And when Krishna tells them to go back, they say, we can’t go back, Krishna.
He says, we left everything to come and surrender to you. Your telling us to go back is like telling a river which has started from the mountaintop and raised down to the ocean. And when it is about to meet the ocean, the ocean tells the river, go back to the mountain.
We can’t go back. But Krishna at that time tells them that yes, you have come to me, you have surrendered your life to me, I accept your surrender. And now I request you, you continue this mood of surrender while going back to your return position.
I am not asking you to go back to material life and material consciousness. Go back to material life but in spiritual consciousness. And he says, you can serve me wherever you are.
You can serve me by remembering me, by longing for my association, by inner absorption in me. So there, actually, Krishna tells the Brahman Patnis to do that and they do it. And here also, Krishna tells the Gopis, basically, he says, why have you come here? And as he says, he tells later, oh, you should go back.
And Krishna tells the Gopis to go back but the Gopis do not go back. So, that means, here we see, this is aparadharma and this is paradharma. This is material religion and spiritual religion.
So, in the case of the Yagic Brahman Patnis, they give up their material religion to practice spiritual religion. That means, they neglect the restrictions that are imposed by their husbands on them and still they come towards Krishna. Krishna accepts their worship, accepts their service but then tells them to go back and serve internally, serve through inner absorption.
Whereas, if the Gopis come to him, the Gopis also leave their family members and come to Krishna and Krishna performs pastimes with them. So, that means, in one, so, performing the worldly duties, whatever are there, that is aparadharma. Performing the transcendental duties, to service to Krishna, that is the paradharma.
So, the Bhagavatam stresses paradharma as the ultimate purpose of life. But it does not trivialize or trash aparadharma. It recognizes aparadharma to also be important.
Later on, in the tenth canto, it will be described how the pastime of Nrga, the king Nrga, who had been cursed by brahmanas, who had displeased brahmanas because the charity that he had given had gone wrong. He gave many, many cows in charity to one brahmana and he gave many cows in charity to another brahmana. But one cow from one set went to the other set.
And both brahmanas got upset by that. And he said, I will give you more cows. Just forget it.
He says, no, they are still upset. And, because of that, because he had displeased the brahmanas, what happened was, the brahmanas cursed him. And he became a lizard.
Now, should we say, the brahmanas should be understanding. You know, one cow, what difference is it going to make to them? And why do they have to curse like this? Such a small mistake. Now, the Bhagavatam is demonstrating the inadequacy of aparadharma.
If in material consciousness we give charity, charity is a very laudable thing to do. But, something or the other will go wrong at the material level. That’s one point that is illustrated.
But you can say, ok, you want to illustrate, but why the brahmanas seem to behave in unreasonable ways? We will see this theme again and again in the Bhagavatam, that the brahmanas often get angry and curse. And yet, the Bhagavatam does not criticize the brahmanas. Does not condemn the brahmanas.
The Bhagavatam says that devotees who are, those who are devoted to Krishna are greater than brahmanas. Even if they are not born in a brahmana family. Prahlad Maharaj says that even if a brahmana is ornamented with all the twelve qualities, but if that brahmana does not have devotion to Lord Hari.
Twelve qualities means the brahmana has knowledge, brahmana has realization, the brahmana can perform yajnas nicely, recite mantras nicely, he can do all the duties of, priestly duties, but the brahmana does not have devotion. Then, even if a person is low-born and that person has devotion, then that person can deliver not only oneself, but even one’s descendants, one’s whole dynasty, one can deliver. So the Bhagavatam does stress, if there is a contrast between brahmanas and devotees, Vaishnavas, the Bhagavatam stresses that Vaishnavas are way way greater than brahmanas.
But at the same time, the Bhagavatam does not trivialize brahmanas. That’s why we see, in this same pastime of Nrga, after it gets over, the Lord very strongly cautions his sons. Samba is his son who has run back on seeing the lizard in the well and he’s informed the palace assembly.
And then Krishna comes and rescues that lizard and then Krishna tells the story of the past life of that lizard and Krishna gives a very strong instruction saying that never offend brahmanas. Never never offend brahmanas. And Vallabhacharya especially explains in his commentary over there that this is a premonition that later on Samba will be a part of the of the young people in the Yadu dynasty who offend the brahmanas.
Samba pretends to be like a pregnant woman and asks the brahminical sages Oh please tell us is this womb going to be is the child going to be a boy or a girl? And the sages get angry and they say You think you’re going to make fun with us? And they curse. So brahmanas devotion and Vaishnavas are glorified, bhaktas are glorified in the Bhagavatam but brahmanas are not trivialized. So similarly here Krishna is demonstrating and highlighting through this pastime the glorious devotion of the gopis that they are ready to give up everything for Krishna at the same time.
Although they are ready to give up everything for Krishna Krishna cautions Krishna sounds a cautionary note by telling that you are meant to follow your duty. So in exceptional situations the aparadharma can be given up to follow the paradharma. In normal situations we do our aparadharma in a mood of devotion.
So some people may just leave their families and devote themselves to the service of the lord in the renounced order but most people will have their families will have their careers, will have their jobs and along with that they will serve Krishna. So the paradharma doesn’t necessarily require giving up the aparadharma. The paradharma can be pursued along with the aparadharmas.
So we could say that there are three modes tamoguna, rajoguna, sattvaguna and then there is shuddha sattva, there is transcendence. So devotees are meant to operate at the transcendental level. Devotion exists at the transcendental level but at the same time while we are functioning in the world it is good if we can come to sattvaguna because if we are in sattvaguna which Prabhupada translates as the mode of goodness, sattvaguna there is regulation, there is order, there is balance and there is morality and that’s how we can function properly.
So in emergency situations ordinary morality can be given up for spiritual morality but in most situations that should not be done. For example we have in the Chaitanya Charita Amrit that when Sanatana Goswami is being imprisoned by the Nawab Hussain Shah his only fault was that he wanted to devote himself to the surrender to Lord Chaitanya’s mission and the Nawab said no, you have to serve as my minister and Rupa Goswami slipped away but Sanatana Goswami was trapped so at that time Sanatana Goswami told the jail keeper that actually the jail keeper was a Muslim and Sanatana Goswami also temporarily converted to Islam at that time, apparently, externally so he said actually I wanted to renounce the world so that I can make a pilgrimage to Mecca in the Islamic dharma, in Islam going to Mecca is considered to be a very pious activity it’s a lifelong aspiration for many Muslims at least once you should go to Mecca so he said I want to go to Mecca and he says that if somebody is able to go to Mecca all those who help them in that pilgrimage also get the credit of going to Mecca so if you release me from jail then you will also get the credit of having helped a person to go to to do this pilgrimage now he knows Sanatana Goswami has no intention of going to Mecca for him he is planning to go to meet Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who is the source of all purity of all pure places so in a sense we could say that he is going to supreme abode of holiness so he speaks that lie over there for pursuing the purpose of the ultimate truth but that does not mean that a devotee can habitually speak lies normally we should speak truth otherwise if we start habitually speaking lies for the sake of for some higher service we may say but then there will be no trust in the devotee community there will be no trust between devotees and outside and generally outsiders who are not practicing bhakti they will not appreciate our bhakti principles they will appreciate our sattva guni behavior if they see we are gentle, we are moderate, we are courteous we are honest, we are truthful these are virtues these are nice people, these are good people I want to know what makes them tick so in emergency situations the aparadharma can be given up to achieve paradharma but in most situations paradharma which is pure devotion to Krishna is to be practiced in harmony with one’s worldly vocations with one’s worldly situations so now what was that extraordinary nature of the gopis because of which they gave up aparadharma and took up paradharma what is the nature of their extraordinary devotion of the gopis and what Krishna is teaching through this we will discuss in our future sessions so I will summarize I spoke about how the bhagavatam has that essential tension between aparadharma and paradharma the bhagavatam transcends aparadharma to take us to material religion to take us to paradharma which is spiritual religion but the bhagavatam doesn’t trivialize aparadharma and I started by talking about the difference between the paradox and the contradiction contradictions are like two forces on a rope or a string pulling in opposite directions paradox is like the tension in the bow string which gives force for the arrow to move forwards similarly a paradox has contradictory points within it but those contradictory points take us deeper to understanding a higher truth which is implicit within those two seemingly contradictory statements so in the context of the Rastlila the contradictory points are that Krishna himself has played the flute and specifically the flute which is meant to call the gopis and he has called the gopis in the in night and called them so attractively and forcefully that they left everything to come to him and yet that same Krishna is telling them why have you come here is it to see the beauty of the Vrindavan forest then you see please go back now and he tells reminds them of the duty as house as ladies of the home so why is Krishna doing this Krishna is doing this to illustrate that the rejection of dharma cannot be done trivially we normally honor the limits of dharma and occasionally exceptionally the aparadharma can be given up to practice paradharma so aparadharma is dharma artha kama leading ultimately to moksha so there can be different kinds of religious order, social order cultural order, legal order which helps to maintain the balance in society by which people can have financial resources and fulfill their desires kama itself is not bad it is dushpur kama it is insatiable desire that is the problem scratching ordinary skin is not a big issue but scratching diseased skin or scratching till the point a skin becomes diseased that is the problem so ordinary fulfilling of desires becomes problematic if it makes one give up dharma so ambition becomes greed when it tramples ethical boundaries so aparadharma maintains order in society and then how Krishna stresses aparadharma I had discussed through the past time of the of the yagic brahmana patnis the wives of the brahmanas who came giving everything up for Krishna and Krishna accepted their surrender but then told them to continue their service in their social position and I talked about how the brahmanas are considered the highest in the traditional Vedic society but the bhagavatam stresses that devotees are far greater than brahmanas if the brahmanas are not devoted devotees from any caste are better at the same time even if the brahmanas are not devoted even if the brahmanas are acting unreasonably cursing on a slight provocation still brahmanas need to be respected so we could say brahmanas represent aparadharma and devotees represent the paradharma so aparadharma is to be respected not to be trivialized but aparadharma may need to be given up to follow paradharma and Sanatana Goswami was normally very truthful and of impeccable integrity but when for surrendering to Lord Chaitanya he had to speak that I am going to Mecca he did that so occasionally exceptionally a devotee may give up aparadharma to practice paradharma but normally a devotee practices material morality that is sattva guni values while pursuing spiritual devotion thank you very much Hare Krishna any questions or comments yes so when you were speaking about desire I thought the verse from Sri Caitanya Tantra amendir kutti vamsa tarvalakam krishnendir kutti isha daya pranam that one’s desire to satisfy one’s own senses that’s lust the desire to satisfy Krishna’s senses is love so I was wondering if you could kind of harmonize that definition so the desire to satisfy one’s own senses lust the desire to satisfy Krishna’s senses is love yes that is true that is to highlight that these two can be non-intersecting circles but they don’t always have to be non-intersecting if for pleasing my senses I have to give up the service of Krishna then it is a problem so if for satisfying my tongue I decide to eat something which is not offered to Krishna which is a non-vegetarian food then these two are non-intersecting circles and it’s taking me away from Krishna but these two satisfying our senses and satisfying Krishna’s senses can be intersecting circles also so when we offer prasad to Krishna offer bhoga to Krishna and take his prasad that is the offering of that food to Krishna is satisfying Krishna’s senses and then our taking it satisfies our senses it is bhakti is not just transcendental spirituality it is sensory spirituality sensory spirituality means the senses are used for spiritualizing our consciousness when we decorate the deities we decorate them in a way that looks beautiful to our eyes in our eyes Prabhupada said the deities should be decorated so beautifully that people whose minds are agitated by various things they come and they become attracted to the deities and they feel peace so the two can be contradictory but they don’t have to be contradictory when we have kirtans we can have sweet musical kirtans they are pleasing to our ears somebody may say oh I like mundane music that is also pleasing to my ears well yes that is pleasing to ears but that is taking us out of Krishna bhakti so for us the important thing is to serve Krishna and as long as we are in the service of Krishna it is not a problem because we have our individuality and bhakti does not at all mean giving up our individuality so Shri Prabhupada there is some quote attributed to Prabhupada saying that if you have a desire to eat one gulab jamun you will have to come back to the material world to eat a gulab jamun there is a quote like that but then Prabhupada himself was very particular about which food items he liked when Prabhupada asked puja often devotees make kachoris for him because he loved kachoris now we could say Prabhupada is a pure devotee well but kachori is made with material substances isn’t it so just pure devotion doesn’t mean rejection of our individuality spiritualizing ourselves doesn’t mean depersonalizing ourselves each of us has our individuality each of us has our personality each of us has our psychophysical nature and we are meant to serve Krishna with that so we don’t work for our desires we don’t work against our desires we work with our desires for Krishna we all have some desires that are natural for us some people just like music and singing is just natural for them some people just like artistry, decoration for them painting, drawing that’s natural for them now they work with that desire for Krishna so work for the desire means go wherever that desire takes me if that desire takes me to a gross sensuality I’ll go there also work against that desire means oh I like doing this therefore I’ll give it up that is suppression that is not the way Varanashram works so we don’t work for our desires we don’t work against our desires we work with our desires for Krishna now when I say work with our desires what it means is not that all our desires we can work with them towards Krishna there are some desires which will take us away from Krishna and those desires we have to restrict them we have to purify ourselves of those desires but the principle of desiring is innate to individuality to be conscious is to be desirous so we cannot reject or eliminate all our desires so those desires which take us away from Krishna we definitely want to restrain and purge ourselves of them but there are desires which we can work with for going towards Krishna so when we say work with our desires for Krishna means the circle of what pleases us and what pleases Krishna find the intersection between the two and situate yourself in that any other questions yes thank you so much it’s such a classic question you know this general idea of how to apply which one when by the time there is Narada Muni comes to the sons of Daksha they are ready they are actually ready to become purified they are ready to get beyond and so it’s this you know second set of sons and Daksha is firmly situated that’s his whole thing he’s got great generations and he’s very focused on that so this happens over and over again and you point out that this is the main tension that the Bhagavatam is demonstrating so there is one commentary on this Gopis coming to Krishna that some of the Gopis they couldn’t believe them and those that were forbidden they stayed back and they left their body and it’s described that the suffering they felt being away from Krishna when these karmas flew whatever tiny remnants of the bad karma were there and whatever remnants of good karma were percolated by the ecstasy they felt meditating on it and suffering and that way they became completely purified and it’s understood that they go on and they truly die perfectly so from that understanding that what you are saying that we don’t abandon our lower dharma for the higher dharma in the sense of an emergency but it’s Gopis who are frankly remarkable even among the range of all pure devotees what distinguishes them is they have absolutely no attachment for their upper dharma at least the ones who came and were able to come by Yogamaya’s mercy to the Rasa dance so have I understood this correctly and so have you so the Gopis even those who are not able to come to Krishna they also have the longing for Krishna that they give up their bodies in the separation from Krishna and they attain Krishna in the spiritual world so this is the Bhagavatam telling us to actually keep doing our upper dharma without having any attachment to it yes that is the aspiration that cannot be the way we will start off that means that the Bhagavatam there is also in the Bhagavatam even if one has all kinds of desires still still worship the Lord with intensity so we could say that devotion pure devotion is like a elevator that begins from the lowest level of Tamoguna goes through Rajoguna through Sattvaguna towards Shuddha Sattva and this is the elevator into which we can enter wherever we are and even if somebody is in ignorance or passion they can start practicing Bhakti by that they will gradually start getting elevated and ultimately they will come to the level of Shuddha Bhakti at the same time this requires progression the Bhagavatam we always need to remember as we have spoken to a person who is about to die and the Bhagavatam’s narratives are selected by Shukdev Goswami to highlight to Parikshit Maharaj that even the slightest distraction from the goal of pure devotion can have serious consequences as is illustrated through Bharat Maharaj getting attached to a deer but the Bhagavatam’s each book has a driving question the Mahabharata’s driving question is what is Dharma the Bhagavatam’s driving question is what is Dharma at the time of death what is the Dharma at the time of death so Parikshit Maharaj does not he devotes himself fully to hearing about Krishna after he has renounced his kingdom and even before that he is a great devotee there are amazing characteristics I have described even before he was born the prophecy given by the astrologers but while he is ruling as a king he does not just sit and hear Bhagavatam all the time he also receives honours sages but he is doing his royal responsibilities diligently when he hears that Kali has started infiltrating into his kingdom he goes out of the expedition to look for the symptoms of Kali and to counter them he strongly punishes Kali personified when he sees him persecuting the cow and the bull one across the world when talking with devotees one common source of frustration for devotees is when they are given transcendental answers to practical problems when they are having a relationship issue with someone this person this person not getting along chant Hare Krishna everything will be ok no if people have relationship issue you have to deal with it at that level so I am giving this as an example that we can’t be artificially transcendental and it is good it is good if we don’t have attachment to our aparadharma and do it simply in a mode of duty or simply in a mode of service to Krishna but if we don’t have that what do we do sattva guna is better than rajo guna rajo guna is better than tamo guna shuddha sattva is better than all of them at the same time if somebody is in tamo guna and they imagine themselves to be in shuddha sattva that is horrendous that means say in today’s world man and woman unite and then they have children and they just casually abandon the children they either abort the child or they just don’t care for the child and both of them are pursuing their careers and they neglect the child very much emotionally neglect physically sometimes neglect well and sometimes it has happened in our movement also devotees in the name of doing a lot of service to Krishna going on for good distribution neglecting the children and Prabhupada came to know about it Prabhupada was shocked Prabhupada gave instructions talking about the glory of paradharma but Prabhupada presumed the basic understanding of aparadharma and when he saw that this was not there he was shocked he was appalled so when devotees when some devotee women were told just leave your babies at home and go for good distribution or leave the babies with someone and go for so Prabhupada wrote a strong letter he says who is telling you this and how can you do this for you your service to your children is more important than your service to the deities also they are your deities they are Vaikuntha children so what happened is Prabhupada came from a culture where dutifulness in the sense of material dutifulness was presumed and his stress was that material dutifulness is not enough we have to become spiritually dutiful but if somebody rejects material dutifulness entirely and becomes materially irresponsible and they are not actually spiritually responsible that can be very dangerous so for a community to function people have to not just be spiritually responsible but people have to be emotionally responsible to each other physically responsible to each other family responsible to each other if that is not there then the community the family everything will collapse and nowadays especially earlier even in India and especially in the west we were very very cursory in our preaching in saying that oh just give up everything family, parents, everything is mundane give it up and practice bhakti but now as more and more people of the younger generation are coming from traumatized families then we are recognizing that for most of us who maybe had good upbringing then we presume the presence of so much which actually is helping us to practice bhakti so it is because our parents may not have given us spiritual knowledge but our parents offered us a good material upbringing and that created a foundation by which we could take up bhakti if that materially good upbringing is also not there then there is no foundation to practice bhakti so for most people it is important to do their material duty now it is better to do the material duty with detachment than with attachment but it is better to do the material duty with attachment than to not do the duty at all so not doing the duty is ignorance doing the duty with attachment is in rajoguna doing the duty with detachment is in sattvaguna and doing the duty with devotion to Krishna that is in satchuddha sattva so it is best if we are at this level but even if there is attachment do the duty with attachment and that itself will force people to grow up in terms of taking up responsibility, developing emotional maturity learning to discipline their impulses and then gradually that ethos of being responsible will be translated into the spiritual life also so it is good to be detached it is good to be attached to Krishna and do the duties with attachment to Krishna but if it is not then do the duties as we can and keep practicing bhakti by the practice of one’s duty with attachment or without attachment one will maintain the social order by the practice of bhakti one will purify oneself and once one becomes purified then from attachment towards attachment we can rise