Understanding the Universal Form

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
I will talk about them Vishwaroopa we have two conceptions of Vishwaroopa that are there in the Bhagavatam and the Prabhupada so I will talk about both of them briefly we will compare them initially and then we will try to go deeper into understanding each other now the Vishwaroopa here is what is being shown to Arjuna by Krishna the basic principle of Vishwaroopa is to redefine the material world as divine redefine or re-perceive the material world as divine the normal idea is that the divine spiritual world is the material world but we see God in this world that is the basic principle of the Viratmukha. Now Shatrughna translate these three words commonly Viratmukha, Vishwaroopa, Kalamukha he translates all of them as universe and God at the same time there are some differences within these conceptions which we will look at as we go forward so now the basic principle is to see God in matter Vishwaroopa explains, now the sixth chapter of the second canto talks about the Viratmukha.
The seventh chapter in the second canto talks about the universal form in addition of course to the eleventh chapter of the Bhagavad Gita so the supreme personality by his partial manifestation measuring no more than 9 inches expands by his potential energy in the shape of the universal form which includes everything manifested in different varieties of organic and inorganic materials so let’s look at this here basically firstly three conceptions of God are brought up. First the supreme personality is brought up, then in his manifestial super soul he further expands the Viratmukha Nibhaputra talks about in a sense five different conceptions of God the highest conception of God that is talked about is Bhagavan Sri Krishna in the tenth canto but while taking one towards that absolute truth it talks about Brahman it talks about Paramatma it talks about the Viratmukha and it talks about the avataras so the avataras are in one sense Bhagavan but still they slightly differ from Bhagavan because they are not as we know they are not in all 64 qualities they are different aspects of us so there are these five karisthas now. We know that out of these five, Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan are the three features of the absolute truth.
I discussed about it in my last class. If we look at the flow of the Bhagavatam, it starts with the second canto. First canto is Shukadeva Goswami was meditating on Brahman but he got attracted to Bhagavan so then in that journey he starts by talking about meditate on the super soul in the heart if you can’t meditate, you meditate on the external form of the heart.
External form is Viratmukha and there he describes the various avataras and various cantos and finally it comes to Bhagavan Sri Krishna Now Baldevudaya Upanishad in the Govardhan Upanishad raises this question about the size of the super soul he says is this literal or is it figurative if it is literal then there is a problem that there are different living beings. Some of them if the size is the size of a thumb as it is said. Some living beings have bodies which are bigger than the thumb which are smaller to the size of the thumb so we might argue that actually in their bodies the super soul will be of the size of their heart but then some organisms are so small that they don’t even have a heart not about those organisms so he says at one level the size is not literal just like we have the size of the soul is the size of the soul literal or is it metaphorical now the Upanishads Keshavashatabhavasi in the Bhagavan Upanishad one time it houses the tip of the head it seems to be a specific measure at first sight but if you look at it more deeply when you talk about the tip of the head how much is the tip then different people can have different definitions of the tip different people can have different conceptions of what a tip means then when we divide it one ten thousand so the Bhagavad Gita also says that the Supreme Lord is the soul is Apraneya Apraneya is immeasurable so immeasurable here doesn’t mean so large as to be immeasurable but it is so small as to be immeasurable so so the same principle applies over here also is it literal? there are problems if we interpret literal but is it metaphorical? if it is metaphorical that would convey the idea that this form is a representation of something abstract so that is not the reality that the soul in its ultimate original feature is a person and the absolute truth in its original feature is also a person so in that sense is the science method it’s not exactly metaphorical so it is not literal in the sense that we can’t put a material dimension of the spiritual entity and then the soul as a person and at the same time it’s not metaphorical because it’s not that the Lord or the soul don’t have an original form it just embodies a conceptual form so then the answer to this whole controversy is that actually speaking the size of the super soul is given as a tool for meditation that the yogi is told that you focus on the heart and then if he is told to help him concentrate on the form of the Lord or on the conception of God in the heart he is given a conceptual size but when the yogi’s meditation becomes steady the Lord can manifest in that form so in that sense it’s not imagination the Lord is like the Bhagavad Gita Guru Maharaj look within and how Lord Vishnu works and then suddenly Lord Vishnu disappears and Lord Vishnu returns so in that sense it’s neither literal nor metaphorical if we think that the absolute truth has a material form then to help us understand we should not take it literal but if we think the absolute truth is formless then it’s not metaphorical actually it’s in between it’s like it’s as we have achieved in the Vedas it’s in between literal and metaphorical so now that Supersoul is meditable people can meditate on the Supersoul if they have an inward vision but if they don’t have an inward vision then what do they do? they still have an outward vision and for them the universal form is there for meditation so Prabhupada explains here everything manifested so Shri Prabhupada gives an interesting chemical sound in terms of organic and inorganic several times in the Isha Upanishad he talks about the organic and inorganic energies so actually Prabhupada uses the word organic and inorganic not in a dictionary sense but he uses them in the sense of the material and spiritual energies living and the non-living so now what is the use of the form? it’s omnipotent, it can offer association by inconceivable potencies so what is the Lord doing? the universal form is one way by which materially minded people can get their association with the Supreme Lord see the cosmic, impersonal feature of the law so I’ll come to this point of cosmic and impersonal later right now let’s focus on the cosmic side so what is the difference between the Gita universal form and the Bhagavatam universal form the Gita universal form is a revelation the Bhagavatam universal form is a conceptualization now again what is the difference between these two words? revelation means that which is a vision bestowed by this Lord so it is not that Arjuna sat in meditation and tried to see the world and he tried to think oh the mountains are the bones of the Lord the hair on the body are the trees no, he just stood there that divyamadhamite chakshin the Lord gave him a vision by which he was able to see it so that is a revelation remember Gita’s universal form is a revelation bestowed by Krishna and what are the Bhagavatam’s universal form that is a conceptualization conceptualization means it’s a conceptual tool used to enhance one’s spiritual focus through material means so that means if you look at the Bhagavatam it is described that the yogi should think of the mountains as the bones of the Lord the yogi should think of the trees and the hair and the body of the Lord so he should think of like this, it’s a conceptualization now does the word conceptualization invoke something imaginary we’ll look at that as we now know Bhagavatam clearly states that this universal form is not here, it is it is imagined by the yogis now imagine does not necessarily mean that it is something which has no grounding in reality, the Lord gives an association by helping the seeker conceptualize him that way now this is the first difference this is your revelation, it’s a conceptualization now apart from that are there any other differences if you look at it further either way there is no Vishwaroop Loka in the spiritual world there is Vaikuntha Loka there is Ayodhya, there is Goloka the Bhagavatam describes all the avatars and describes the cosmic dispensation quite elaborately so in the beginning Bhagavatam describes the journey so when the Gopakumar is going to the spiritual world, he does not go to any Vishwaroop Loka, of course there is Brahmaji is worshipping the Sahasrashi Vishwanath Purusha the Purusha Sutra in the Bhagavatam there is a very interesting chapter named Purusha Sutra Confirmed so what does this chapter actually refer to and what is Purusha Sutra and what is being confirmed over there so the Purusha Sutra is one of the most popular and one of the most incomprehensible hymns of the Rig Veda so what is it is considered to be something very fascinating, the Purusha Sutra describes how at the beginning of the creation the universal form the Purusha, the Adi Purusha however there, the Adi Purusha started a sacrifice and himself became the sacrifice that means the Adi Purusha however was there, he created the Devatas and the Devatas had to perform sacrifice, so there is also a section in the Bhagavatam which says that Brahmaji said that actually there was nothing to offer as sacrifice, so Brahmaji to the Lord himself only had offered as sacrifice so there is a verse like that in the Bhagavatam, which is very strange so this Purusha Sutra, what it is referring to and whom it is referring to, it is not all clear so Purusha Sutra basically talks about the how sacrifice is the principle by which the existence continues and the Supreme Lord himself starts the process of sacrifice by offering himself as sacrifice, so it is a conceptualization and the purpose of that conceptualization is to indicate how sacrifice is the governing principle of the soul, who is this Purusha who is being referred to in the Purusha Sutra that the Bhagavatam reveals or confirms to be a manifestation of Purusha, so Purusha Sutra confirmed means that the identity of the Purusha is confirmed to be Krishna, to be a manifestation of Krishna, that is the meaning of Purusha Sutra so now when we are moving so here if we are moving from the world down upwards, so again another revelation, conceptualization is that conceptualization means from down we move up I am looking at this world, let me try to connect with God, so it is a bottom up process but as far as Arjuna getting the vision of Krishna, it is a top down process, so Krishna reveals that vision to Arjuna so the point here is that there is no Vishwanupa Loka and there is no specific planet where those who worship the Vishwanupa Loka actually it is a transitional meditational tune which will take the yogi to higher levels of realization now Arjuna when he sees the Vishwanupa at that time, what is his reaction his reaction is what is this, I do not want to see this please show me your Samudriya Rupa he says Ugra Rupa, Ugra Rupa he uses quite a negative sounding adjectives to describe that form, then he says and interestingly one of the verses Prabhupada writes over there a devotee is not interested in such a godless display of opulence this is one of the most bold statements in any of Prabhupada’s purport you know God is displaying his opulence and Prabhupada is saying this is a godless display of opulence now how can God’s display of opulence be a godless display of opulence so actually speaking the devotee is interested in the loving reciprocation with the Lord and then there is a Virat Rupa where the only reciprocation is actually calling out different obeisances especially when the Dharma Rupa is being seen here, so there cannot be another reciprocation and that’s why Prabhupada calls that as a godless display of opulence so now we can move forward here I hope this point of difference between conceptualization and revelation is clear let’s I’ll come to that so okay a lot more exactly is there any difference between Purusha Sutra and Purusha Dharma see Sutra essentially means prayers so Sutra like we have Sutra, we have Shloka Sutra is a combination of prayers so Purusha Sutra is a set of prayers offered to the Purusha is there any way we may have so that Purusha is a manifestation of Purusha Dharma so that is not directly Krishna Krishna can manifest thousands of arms thousands of heads that is universal form that is universal form now which universal form let’s move forward to understand what is the difference between universal forms then we will talk about this so in the Bhagavad Gita actually from the actual point of view the 11th chapter is the most dramatic and to prepare Arjuna for that vision which he is going to get actually there is a triple preparation triple preparation means when when Krishna reveals is about to reveal the form at that time Krishna tells Arjuna what you are going to see that is verses 6 to 10 and then after that when Krishna Yogeshwara Mahamuni when Krishna reveals that form then Sanjaya tells Dhritarashtra what Arjuna is seeing that is from 11 to 14 and then after that when Arjuna’s form is announced, Arjuna describes what he is seeing, so there are three descriptions of what is the vision first Krishna’s description then Sanjaya’s description and then Arjuna’s description Arjuna’s description slowly starts becoming into a prayer so we will focus primarily on Arjuna’s description so the some of the contents I have admitted to basically what happens is first he sees the whole universe he sees Brahmaana Vinesham Kalama Sarasthra Krishincha Sarvam Urvamsha Divnya he says as he read from Brahmaji on top Krishincha Sarvam Urvamsha Divnya, the divine surface that is the bottom of the universe he sees first the full universe Navaskusham Dittamanantaparam this form I am seeing is going up to the ether and touching the sky so we have the word sky scream but none of the event is actually scream the sky just a few stories but actually speaking the form of Krishna as it should was truly sky scream so Navaskusham it went right up to the sky first he saw the universe and then after he saw the universe then he saw the effect on the universe what was the effect on the universe Swasthityukha Maharshi Chandra Sangha that all the Rishis were offering obeisances Shanti Shanti and Vikshanti they were amazing they were observing what is this, amazing experience over there so Bhagavad Gita it is not that only Arjuna saw the form he said if only Arjuna had seen the form then that form might have been dismissed as Arjuna’s marriage but when Krishna gave that revelation, he gave it only to Arjuna he gave it to the residents of the higher planets of the star that’s why when they saw the form now it’s interesting if we look at the description first when Krishna is going to describe to Arjuna what you are going to see, he is saying that you will see the Gandharvas, you will see the Yakshas so actually the Gandharva Yakshas they are in the universal form and they are outside also offering obeisances to the universal form that means so now the word universal form itself can mean different things, you know that the universe itself is the form of God, the universe itself is the form of God so that is one understanding of the universal form the other is that the form which contains the whole universe are there any differences between the two, yes so the Bhagavatam is describing the universe as the form of God the Bhagavad Gita is describing how the universe is contained within the form of God so now there are similarities between the two also but there is a difference in focus the difference in focus is Krishna is revealing his glory over here right and while revealing his glory he is telling him Arjuna how everything is within me now after this happens so when he sees everybody in the universe is bewildered and then he sees the so actually in the Virat Mukha there is also the Kaala Mukha Daksha the Kaala Mukha is the form of destruction the Kaala Mukha is time and Arjuna saw see the Kaala Mukha Pravidandana I am the builder I am the builder but I am fear struck so what is the effect on Arjuna first he is outstruck slowly his fear starts going into his his power starts going into his fear and then first he starts to be and then suddenly he sees the universe he sees everybody is outstruck and then suddenly he starts seeing that Virat Mukha is not only showing the universe it is showing the battlefield also and in the battlefield what is he seeing and all his power is just going into the Kaala Mukha of this Virat Mukha and then he starts seeing oh that means this Virat Mukha is not just everywhere it is right here and it is consuming the whole universe so at that time Arjuna was Arjuna was wondering what is this place Pravidandana I am the builder so Arjuna might take example of what is he suppose somebody can you please show me the Vishnu Mukha so somebody tells him see what is going on start browsing horror movie he is watching horror movie it turns into horror movie and as he is watching the horror movie everything is getting destroyed and as everything is getting destroyed suddenly one finds house is also getting destroyed inside the movie it is not just some distant place once the house is getting destroyed and at that time I don’t want to see it so try to press the remote and try to change the channel it doesn’t change anything so Krishna Arjuna is telling Krishna no I don’t want to see it Krishna is telling because he wanted to see it nobody else has seen it please see it now as it is I never again want to see this so he gets frightened so when Arjuna sees the vision of the battlefield he can’t believe it is different then he asks Akhyatiko Goanudra Goanudra he is the only place in the Bhagavad Gita where Arjuna uses the address Goan even when he is surrendering to Krishna as a Guru he is saying Goan means Tu Goan means Aap so what has happened to him is he sees Vishwaroopa he can’t really conceive of this trend what are you doing so his whole mood so basically Virata Mukha has the effect of changing the Rasa from Satya to at one level Shanta and Dasa primarily Shanta it becomes overrun by Dhyana by horror and fear so if we look at the Vishwaroopa that is described in the Bhagavad Gita that is primarily a revelation of God which describes the whole universe and in that universe it describes the Kali so in the material world basically there is time and there is space so the material world the fabric of its existence is space and time everything that happens in the world is within the realm of space and time so Einstein had intended to call it one composite entity as space time so when normally when we talk about Virata Roopa Virata Roopa talks about how all of space is included within the Supreme Lord but it is not only space it is also time all of time is also included God as revealed in the Bhagavad Gita is not just a cosmic background presence God is just a fabric of existence but God is also an active historical agent who is bringing about change within the world he is not just a cosmic background presence he is an active historical agent so time is redefined in the Bhagavad Gita as God so basically the idea is that we want to spiritualize our vision of matter as a means towards understanding God as a spiritual original entity so we spiritualize our vision of matter we see matter as Krishna’s energy we see matter as a form of Krishna as Vishwamitra and beyond that we spiritualize our vision of time that time is an energy of God so when the Kaala Roopa is revealed at that time Arjuna sees what is going to happen in the future and that is what causes Mahabharata the gigantic expanse doesn’t cause fear it causes awe but the Kaala Roopa the frightening way in which God is acting as a ruthless historical agent in Mahasiddhas is scary so now when Krishna displayed this form at other times in the Mahabharata apart from this, in the Mahabharata Krishna displays this form twice in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna displays this form twice in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna displays it twice to Vishwamitra once when he was on a lap Vishwamitra wants to see Krishna and Krishna opens mouth and again when Krishna is supposed to have eaten mud, he opens mouth that is two times and then in the Mahabharata it is twice once he shows to Duryodhana and second time he shows to in the 14th book he shows to Uttama Gavishi so Uttama Gavishi is a sage who is old acquaintance of Krishna and after the whole battle is gone he will come to that he will come to that so exactly that is why he goes to Rupa not exactly, actually the prayers that Kuru offers they are to all the Avatars and they also generally speaking if we try to understand the revelation only through the prayers we do not get a clear understanding because if you see the Virat Rupa the conception of Virat Rupa is repeated throughout the Bhagavad when the Deva Gods are approaching the Lord in the 8th Canto because they want strength to repeat the revelations, at that time they offer prayers that also talk about how actually the sun is your eyes and the moon are your eyes and your arms are this and your head is this so that Virat Rupa is a theme that is recurrent again and again in the prayers of Shri Nirmala Devi but that is not a specific revelation that is general glorification it is not a visual or a conceptual that is general glorification so Uttama Rishi so he is very disturbed at that time when he hears that actually there was such a great destruction and Virat was killed so at that time he gets a little angry he says that Krishna you could have stopped all this but you didn’t stop so I am cursing so Krishna laughs and says actually I am transmitting, your curses will not affect me it is more of a playful mood they are friends he says if you are wrong then show me that you are wrong Krishna reveals to Vishnu and he moves inches away from friendship to awe obeisance is involved so now in these four other revelations Krishna does not show the Kaalabh he only shows the Virat Rupa so the word Virat Rupa at one level can mean Virata plus Kaalabh so Virat Rupa can mean the form which includes space and time or the form which pervades space that is just like sometimes we have subtle body generically we call it the mind sometimes and then if we are calling the subtle body as the mind generically then within that subtle body also there is one particular element called the mind so we may refer to subtle body as a group conveniently as mind but within that there is mind as further entity so like that the Virat Rupa can refer to the pervasion in both space and time and within that when there is pervasion of space that is also called as Virat Rupa so to go more analytical the Virat Rupa has two parts one is the Vish if you want to call it Vishwa for the pervasion in space and the pervasion in time that is the Kaalabh so on the other four occasions Krishna shows only the pervasion in space he doesn’t show the pervasion in time now when it comes to so this is with respect to the Virat Rupa that are revelations so the Virat Rupa that are revelations are generally the pervasion in space once it’s a pervasion in space and time now let’s come to the Virat Rupa that is talked about in Bhagavad Gita so these are conceptualizations now when the conceptualizations take place so here Arjuna asks Krishna who are you? he can’t recognize him as the Lord so he can’t recognize him and Krishna will use his name it’s interesting that when that Arjuna asks what is your identity? Krishna doesn’t say I am Virat Rupa he says I am Kaal why? because Arjuna’s Arjuna’s question Arjuna’s request only that caused Krishna to reveal but after Krishna was revealed why did Arjuna forget? sometimes when we see the image you know when we see the Virat Rupa when we are drawing the picture we see Arjuna here Krishna here, Krishna pointing out and in the background we see the Vishnu but actually when the vision happened Krishna got Krishna became invisible to Arjuna’s vision Arjuna got transported to a different vision, he couldn’t see Krishna so when he asks the question, he is not asking Krishna who is that, he is asking Virat Rupa who are you? he is completely bewildered the bewilderment is caused not by seeing the pervasion in space but the destructive agency of that and that’s why Arjuna and Krishna answer, he self identifies himself not as Virat Rupa but as Kaal and how does he define Kaal? Kaal was the I am the destroyer so although time does all three things, time does creation maintenance and destruction but there the manifestation is primarily to reveal the destructive potency and Arjuna is going to have to invoke that destructive potency to annihilate the counter parts, you are the agents of other you are the sources and agents of other that’s why the self identity is as Kaal and the characterization of Kaal is as destroyer not so much as a creator or maintainer it is destroyer because that is the specific context that is that is incited that question answers also now now this is now that we discussed about the revelation now let’s come to the conceptualization so Bhagavatam describes one should concentrate his mind on that lord who alone distributes him with so many manifestations so the idea is one has to concentrate on the lord now how does one concentrate on the lord? in the Bhagavad Gita also there is a question so interestingly when Krishna is asked this question by Arjuna at that time Krishna describes Vibhuti yoga so that is the 10th chapter which of course comes before the 11th chapter where the other articles are clearly written so there also there is one revelation of God in matter that when you say that Indriyana Manascha the mind the mind is the most powerful of all senses so when you see the power of the mind remember me just as the mind is so powerful I am supreme power so that is also conception of God in his greatness so now the Virata Upala is achieved with the Vedas that is Sanatana Upala which is one and different from the law so now the eternal body both the spiritual world and material world are simultaneously one with and different from Shri Hanuman it appears different but is not different now Krishna talks in the Bhagavad Gita about how I pervade the whole world when he describes the Vibhuti yoga in the 10th chapter so now here so now the Bhagavatam how is it going if you remember when Suta Goswami was asking questions that Vrihe Shudra Hame Nidhi they are not able to see the Atma Tattva so they are materially imposited so to get these materially imposited people to become spiritually imposited the Virata Upala is revealed so now what is the Bhagavatam’s theme there is one way to go but there are two directions one can go towards Krishna or one can go away from Krishna so one can go towards life, towards Krishna so when people are in the material world by default they are materially conscious and their material consciousness will take them away from Krishna therefore the Bhagavatam describes how within the material world one can be spiritually conscious one can be thought conscious so Bhagavatam explains foolish purposes will be prepared by the you do not know the ultimate goal of the purpose is to get me in touch directly with Lord Vishnu the personality of Lord Vishnu this is a paraphrase of a famous verse from Ramayana nothing we do Swartha Vati Bhi Vishnu so people do not know about this therefore what is the Bhagavatam to do so now in the material world people think of greatness in terms of bigness if somebody is a big person people ask how big is his car how big is his bungalow how big is his office people say something big so that is the material consciousness so to get people to have that material consciousness you must be a God that is why God is so big so now this is a pantheistic idea pantheism pan means all pantheism is actually to conceive of nature as God so now everything is God nature is God does the Bhagavatam teach pantheism it does not teach pantheism per se but it sees pantheism as a tool to please me you see God everywhere it is interesting the Bhagavata also Vasudeva Sarvamiti see everything will be Vasudeva but then what is the Bhagavatam saying Gyanavan Mahaprapadyate although it is Vasudeva Sarvamiti it is not Gyanavan Sarvaprapadyate it is not that he surrenders everywhere in the earth Vasudeva is everything everything is Vasudeva therefore I have to surrender to Vasudeva so it is a transitional stage to move forward so now there are many descriptions of this as a whole is the personal body of the absolute in what sense is the personal Prabhupada explains that actually we have the super soul of the body similar to the super soul of the universe the super soul of the universe is there so the super soul of the body is the Shiva Dakshavishnu the super soul of the universe is the Dharma Dakshavishnu the super soul of the Mahatma is the Mahavishnu so the super soul of each of these manifests to the matter is there and this super soul has at the level of conceptualization a gross body and that gross body of the super soul is the Virata so Vishvesh Vishvatman Vishvamuthe Sokeshu so Guruji Maharaj has described he is attributing three connections with the Vishva object so Vishvesh Vishvatman Vishvamuthe Sokeshu Vishvesh you are the control of the universe that is easy to understand that is the standard way of conceptualization so Vishvesh Vishvatman you are the soul of the universe and what sense is Krishna the soul of the universe he is the soul of the universe as Antardhami as you there are both Abhishek and Vishnu and not only so normally if something is the soul we know that is the body if I am the soul I am not the body but interestingly Guruji Maharaj is talking about Vishvamuthe Sokeshu you are the Vishvatma and Vishvamuthe actually you are the form of the universe also you are the soul of the universe you are the form of the universe also so how are you the form of the universe in the process of conceptualization the universe is conceived of as your form and that is manipulated by the Mahayana mysticism so let us take a these are the general descriptions in the Bhagavatam of various descriptions that are given the rivers are the rains, the trees are the airs the air is his breath the clouds are the hairs on his head the termites are the night are his dress so now when you look at the description the horses, camels elephants are his names it is a very interesting description the varieties of words are indications of his masterful artistic skills so now remember I told that I will move forward that I will talk about this later that the Virat Rupa is the cosmic impersonal form so now in what sense is it cosmic because the whole universe is perverted so it is obviously cosmic now in what sense is it impersonal actually when the Bhagavatam describes the Virat Rupa the Virat Rupa that is described in the Bhagavad Gita that talks to Arjuna that talks to Arjuna and reassures Arjuna Arjuna you are fearful let your fear go away now I will give you my sound report but the Virat Rupa that is described in the Bhagavatam that is not described as talking to Arjuna that Virat Rupa is primarily referred to in Shantaras where one is conceptualizing it actually even in the Yogis initially when they perceive this person in the heart their primary perception is in Shantaras they are primarily perceiving in Shantaras gradually from that Shantaras if they are fortunate enough to be devotees then they can move to some higher person similarly there is a vassal perception with admiration of the grandeur of the Absolute but within that conceptualization which is there in the Bhagavatam actually the Absolute is not just described in terms of cross multilaterals cross multilaterals are what we discussed earlier the hairs the clouds are the hair on his head they are like his hair dress the attribution to cross multilateral but now from this section onwards this Absolute Truth this Virat Rupa also has an aesthetic sense the aesthetic sense actually the beauty the beauty of the words it reflects in the artistry that means it is not entirely impersonalization the conception of the Virat Rupa is impersonal in the sense that there is no speech, there is no reciprocation there is no relationships there is no there are no devotees who are eternal who is eternal Sarovar to be the devotees of Virat Rupa but within the conceptualization as one moves forward there are more and more person attributions here for example artistry is described interestingly actually while describing the Virat Rupa we describe the backside as the Adharma and even actually the gender of the Virat Rupa is described that he has genitals so he is having the male form so now this is not just a very impersonal conception that is given it is actually referring to a person what is the idea? it is slowly preparing the personalistic awareness for this and although this person will perform his all-pervading it is not just all-pervading actually he is also doing the same attributes now I will just focus only the wonders of the world are representations of the greatness of his splendor so these are all describing the subtle or artistic or aesthetic attributes now let’s come to this particular point and I will conclude with this so now we know that this is a thing that comes repeatedly that the Patala comes to be the bottoms of the feet of the Universal Lord, the toes of Darshadhara the ankles of Mahadhara, the shanks comes to be the Taradhara, so now what is this form exactly? now if the universe as we know it is extending from the navel of Vishnu around the local universe and manifest there so now is there some Virat Rupa which is outside this universe and all the planets are situated on it or what does it actually exactly mean? so is there some form like this which actually somehow spreads around the local stock which is there actually Prabhupada explains this is very important, great philosophers imagine, this is directly a transmission, Kalpitarasi imagine that the complete planets in the universe are displacing the different upper and lower planes of the universal body so now Prabhupada explains what is the significance of this word imagine so great philosophers again imagine that the Brahmanas represent his mouth, Chaturvanas is again the base of the word imagine comes again, the same for continuous verses then question may come, is it real or imaginary? so the form is factual but the concept of Krishna’s form in matter imagines lord has no meaningful form, so let’s try to understand this, first is let’s move from bottom up Krishna has no material form, that’s very clear for us, Krishna’s form, the transcendent now if the form is described exclusively in terms of the material universe then that conceptualization is attributing a material form to the law, isn’t it? and that form is not real that form is not real so Prabhupada in another paper compares the Archa Rupa and the Virata Rupa he says the Archa Rupa and the he says that actually Krishna manifests in the Archa Rupa the Virata Rupa is really for the sincere spiritual seeker Krishna can manifest in the Virata Rupa also, so the form is factual means that Krishna can reveal himself in that form to the seeker when he wants so in that sense it’s not entirely imaginary Krishna can reveal himself in that form but it is not necessarily that that form is something which is eternally present somewhere on some book, so in that sense it is, it is real but it is in what sense is it real? it’s like I said the super soul can manifest in that unsighted place of the seeker similarly for the seeker, the lord can reveal himself in that form as he did to Arjuna but if the seeker starts thinking that the absolute truth is material, absolute truth is whatever form that is not that is not, so one should not get stuck to this form and think that this form is the highest, in that sense it’s a conceptual truth, it’s kalpita, it’s imagined but within the imagination there is the potency of revelation within the imagination our common worldly imagination will not lead us to the revelation but when we conceive or conceptualize the word imagine sometimes jars our emotions and sometimes other Prabhupada uses it, so when we conceptualize according to scriptural guidance then what happens is that Krishna is pleased by our adherence to scripture and then he reveals himself through the conceptualization process and then by that we gradually become unified, so it is valuable as a tool for communication now of course we don’t consider GDP to be a tool for communication because GDP is directly manifesting Krishna’s form there is a form of Krishna in the scripture and that form is manifested by the GDP whereas Virat Rupa is different Virat Rupa is not directly manifesting the form of Krishna, so no devotee tells Krishna Krishna I don’t want to see you as a GDP I want to see you only as Krishna but Arjuna clearly says, I don’t want to see you as Virat Rupa, I want to see as Krishna, directly, I don’t want to see Krishna, so what is the idea the idea is that actually the Virat Rupa is not something which we can have and as a meditation tool it helps my mind, ultimately the most basic thing is the relationship with the person and that is the direction which comes to Bhagavad Gita and Krishna Bhagavad Gita thank you very much, are there any questions please later we will have the words so he walks and does not move so firstly these contriply seeming attributes indicate that the absolute truth is inconceivable to our perception inconceivable to our mind perception as well as conception so actually speaking these are not contradictions they are paradoxes contradiction means two opposite statements are there which don’t make sense paradox means two opposite statements are there which convey deeper meaning it’s a paradox what is the deeper meaning that is conveyed over here let’s go to the second part of the verse before we come to this he is far away and he is close so how do we understand this Bhagavad Gita explains this that for the devotees the lord is very close for the non devotees the lord is very far another way to explain this as the super soul he is very close to us closer than the closest friend even if we embrace someone that person will not come as close to us as the super soul at the same time as Bhagavan if we don’t have devotion then he is far away far away so basically these paradoxical references can be understood as referring to different aspects of the Absolute so he was refers to Bhagavan who as a person has his pastor he moves a lot refers to Brahman who never moves at all so when we understand the Absolute Truth as he is revealing the parampara to us then we contribute three paradoxical descriptions can be reconciled as referring to different aspects of the Absolute so that that refers to Brahman he is inside everyone and refers to where the person just like when Yashoda saw the Vishnu actually she saw herself also inside that means that is outside of everything so like that that refers to the Virata is an answer any other questions does the Deity form have a local spiritual world as far as I know the Deity is a manifestation of the Absolute it is not that every Deity has a form in spiritual world just like say we have who have their Deities at their home now they are also going to serve that Deity at the same time we are told that actually speaking you should understand that the Deity at your home is expansion of the Deity within you and you should not let the service to the Deity at your home interfere your service to the Deity at your home you should not say because I have a code I cannot come to Deity I will not come for the program that is not accepted so expansion should add to our service not decrease our service so similarly in the Sanatana Goswami’s prayer that is there in Andhra Pradesh his elaboration is there so first he is describing I see this form within my heart what does that mean he says he says I am I see this in my heart what else do I want so at one level he feels I don’t want anything else next verse he says I want I want I want to see this form with my own hands Sanatana Goswami’s commentary describes that actually the direct perception of the law of the eyes is superior to perception of the law of the inner eye and that’s why even though the devotee is perceiving the law of the inner eye still he wants to perceive the law directly similarly the Deity is not a future but at the same time the Deity is meant to expand our service to the Deity the Deity is not meant to be a Deity so it’s originally just like the Deity is in the house of Brahastha the Deity is here the Deity here is an expansion of Krishna from the spiritual so now it is described that Krishna is Bhavagrahi and he is in the first canto there is a verse at what different form a devotee desires to worship the lord in it’s like Gopal wanted to worship the lord as a Deity so like that if we worship the lord in a particular Deity form when we go back to the spiritual world if that is our desire then lord Krishna will reveal himself as Gopinath he will reveal himself as Mother he will reveal himself as Sanskrit he will reveal himself as Sadanugraha for mercy of the devotees the lord manifests himself in whatever form the devotee desires it’s like Krishna might desire to see Krishna in a rupa in which he can offer so Krishna reveals himself as Krishna so again I would say it’s not that the Deity is not eternal at the same time the idea is not that there is a specific planet for each Deity that is there.
There is one Krishna and that one Krishna has manifested in those Deities. Now every Deity has a particular mood, a particular expression a particular posture and we if we develop our attraction to that for a particular Deity then Krishna when he reveals himself, he will reveal himself according to that mood. That may not be our perpetual rasa that may not be like a perpetual revelation but Krishna’s bhava is the desire that Krishna has.
It depends on the particular posture that I mean. So it’s not that Krishna eternally he should have, I was involved with Krishna and now Krishna is going out and he is herding the cows but her primary attraction to Krishna is in a trivalu so Krishna in Anantam Chaturthi Anantam Chaturthi Kavi Karnapur explains this that just as Krishna is the source of all forms of Godhead similarly Krishna’s Kaishora Mukha is the source of all his various forms. So the Kaishora Mukha is the original Mukha from the Kaishora Mukha depending on the Leela that is being performed different forms will be there.
So Krishna is performing Vatsakara’s pastimes, then the Bhagavad Gita Kurupanis. Then he is performing Sakra’s pastimes then the Bhagavad Gita Kurupanis and he is performing Vatsakara’s pastimes now in the Kaishora Mukha. So like that Krishna manifests the form according to whatever is our specific manner.
So as far as the Gita is concerned the Gita is a manifestation of Krishna and it’s a non-different manifestation of Krishna. At the same time the Gita is also an expansion of Krishna and our attraction eternally is to Krishna is to Krishna. So the Gita is going to expand on Krishna.
Ultimately it is our attraction. Thank you very much. Namaskaram.
Shatrughna Bhargava Shatrughna Bhargava Shatrughna Bhargava But in one sense, it is not just when he is present only, it’s like, see, there is a difference between the two. Now, see, now when we are talking about super soul being present and the super soul having a size, they are two different things. The presence of the super soul is not a conceptualization, it’s an ontological factor.
What is the conceptualization is, it’s the attribution of a particular size to the super soul. There is a difference between them. Excuse me, one question, we say the Lord Krishna is sitting in everyone’s heart, some place a flute, and others said Lord Krishna is not sitting in heart, he is in this Paramatma form and he didn’t speak with us as a bird, he just didn’t speak with us.
Then some devotees, they try to make this aspect, when we are karmic, and he sits as a bird, he just listens and walks to us, and we come to the temple, start chanting mantra, and this bird becomes the Krishna. That’s correct. But then there is a question, where does this transaction happen? No, so again, we should not think of this in like a digital logic, you know, zero and one, it’s analog, it’s progression.
So, Krishna is Udasinavadasinam, he is Udasinam, he is Samoham Sarvamutheshu Namah Dveshasthina Priya, he is situated as a Vritash and Equipot. Same Krishna, he also says, I am very dear, I love my devotees, isn’t it, he says that also. So, gradually as you surrender to him, Krishna reveals himself as Bhagwan, as Rasaraj, and if you are not surrendering to him, then he says, I will not interfere with you, I will be Udasinavada, I will be Antaryam, I will be Supersoul, you can just meditate on me, you can do whatever you want, and I will facilitate it according to your karma.
So, the transition is gradual. But if you look inside… It’s just like, say, when do we realize that the holy name is non-different from Krishna? It’s not that one day suddenly we realize, earlier we may think of the holy name just as a metronome sound vibration, just because I like it. But as we slowly become purified, gradually it’s a realization.
These realizations are gradual, just like in the morning when the sun rises. The rising of the sun is gradual, but our realization, oh, it’s sunrise, that is at one particular moment. So, like that, actually the purification happens slowly, slowly, steadily, but one… Actually, Krishna is non-different from itself.
I’ll understand that. That’s how it works. So, it’s a gradual process.
It’s not at one particular moment that transition happens. At the same time, if you’re looking… This is… If you’re looking from within, from without, we said that some who is devotee and who worship Govinda, he sees a Krishna playing the flute in everyone’s hearts. And some who is a yogi who meditates in Paramatma, he sees a Paramatma sitting in everyone’s That is seen now.
That’s meaning that elephant, the yogi, sees a Paramatma, and devotee sees Govinda playing the flute. Correct. So, that is again a matter of conception.
So, according to… According to one’s own… What is one’s… Whatever form one is attracted to, one will see that form everywhere. In everywhere. Some see Govinda, some sees Lord Ram.
Correct. And other sees the Lord Ram sitting in everyone’s hearts. Correct, correct.
So, that’s more of one’s pervasiveness of one’s devotional vision. Then, instead, Jesus and all the other forms come in the same group. No, no.
There is a difference. Jesus is not an eternal form. Maybe the idea is that people who worship the Lord in the form of Jesus, they see Jesus as a… No, no.
To worship the Lord as Jesus is not correct. He is the son of God. He is not God.
Actually, Jesus himself said, I am the father. I have been sent by the father. I am not the father.
He said that very clearly. That would make it slightly confused. If one is understanding that he is a way to God, he is like some devotee of the holy Prabhupada conscious.
Always think of Prabhupada. That is fine. Nobody thinks of Prabhupada as Christian.
If one is thinking of Jesus that way, then that is fine. But if one confuses the difference between the messenger and the person who has sent the messenger, then there might be a slight confusion in the conceptual. But still, it is also an exalted level of consciousness that one can perceive the messenger of God everywhere, son of God everywhere.
Certainly, that is much more advanced than perceiving a woman everywhere or perceiving money everywhere. Certainly, it is an advanced level of consciousness.