Vaishnava Sadachara 2 – Dealing appropriately with different people

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna, welcome back to the Vaishya Siddha Acharya course we will be discussing today about dealings with different groups of people we could say different stakeholders and how we can what are the broad parameters involved and the principles involved in dealing with them so we will talk about six sets of people overview, in a quick overview we will do so here devotees there are seniors, juniors, equals then there are people in general especially influential people in society then we talk about our own relatives and how to deal with them relatives and acquaintances who are not devotees then we will talk about how to deal with other temples and yatras then we will talk about how to deal with people of other faith and we will talk about how to deal with women or in general the members of the opposite sex and worldly resources such as wealth both Prabhupada talks about together in general so let’s go over these one by one so with respect to dealing with devotees it’s a broad subject but we are given excellent guideline by in the Dhruv Maharaj section by Narada Muni when he says guna dhikan mudam lipseg anukroshan guna dhamat maitrim samana anvichit natapair abhibhuyate so he says guna dhikan mudam lipseg guna adhikan adhika means more those who have more qualities than us that means those who are more advanced than us mudam lipseg we should delight in their association then anukroshan guna dhamat those who have lesser qualities than us anukroshan we be kind compassionate to them and samanat maitrim anvichit those who are equal to us we befriend them and interestingly he says the result of this is natapair abhibhuyate that there will not be misery misery will not result in life of such a person we know that there are these three kleshas adhyatmik, adhibhautik and adhidaivik and all kleshas are painful but the adhibhautik kleshas are something which can often be aggravated enormously by our improper behaviour and they can be greatly minimised by proper behaviour natapair abhibhuyate so the adhibhautik tap can substantially be reduced by proper behaviour and especially in a community we always have these three levels of people those who are above us, those who are equal to us and those who are below us now exactly how do we decide who is above here Narag Muni uses the parameter of guna those who have more qualities than us so the seniors he is talking about not in terms of necessarily age or any other such external parameter he talks in terms of qualities now when we are in a movement there is often this challenge that how do we exactly determine the hierarchy, there may be devotees who may have come much earlier to us in the movement but then we may be in an authoritative position where they are under us or they are in a community for example we may be in a community, we may be second generation leaders and there may be first generation devotees who are in that movement who are in that same community so often it is difficult for us to decide who is a senior and who is junior now certainly we shouldn’t think that managerial position automatically implies seniority just the fact that somebody has been in Krishna consciousness for a long time means that that person is due respect and so that person needs to be treated as a senior even if managerially that person may not be having the position and there is of course the criteria of Varna and Ashram where Sanyasis are respected by Grahasthas in general because they are in the renounced order so we can go from the Varna Ashram point of view, we can go the Brahmins are respected, those who are second initiated will be respected by the other community by others in the community the Varna Ashram considerations can be there, number of years of practise consideration can be there, even the age consideration can be there, somebody is elderly they deserve some respect so primarily a seniority is which we talk about in devotional terms is in terms of number of years of practise of Krishna consciousness so that we should not necessarily equate with advanced that senior devotee need not be advanced but we don’t as we as a movement when we have to have structured behaviour we cannot model it on parameters such as advanced which are not very easy to perceive, we can take inspiration from advanced devotees and certain devotees may inspire us and we may consider them advanced also, it can work both ways but with respect to etiquette, seniority in terms of when that person came to Krishna consciousness when that person took initiation, in which Ashram, which Varna that person is all those factors also are important and of course managerial positions are also important if somebody is in a managerial important position then naturally that also has to be respected so guna dhikan mudam lipsed if somebody is an advanced devotee then when we get the association it is a matter of, it is a festival Bhagavatam says that just as a peacock when it sees clouds in the sky it gives out its blossoms and delights in seeing the clouds, similarly a devotee delights when the when on getting the association of senior devotees so seniors need to be given proper respects in the Bhagavatam the example is given of how when Vidura wanted, Vidura saw Uddhava and he heard that the lord had instructed him so Uddhava Vidura wanted to hear from Uddhava what the instructions were so in one sense Vidura wanted to put Uddhava in the position of instructing spiritual master and Uddhava hesitated and he said that Maitreya Rishi was also there when the lord spoke and he is much more senior to me and he is actually, you are also senior to me so rather than I speaking let him speak so then Maitreya Rishi speaks to Vidura so this is an example of how now there is a question here is not of who is advanced Uddhava we could say there was a far more intimate associate of Krishna than both than Maitreya and we could even say that Vidura was more intimately connected with Krishna as far as the direct dealings was concerned than Maitreya but still we have Uddhava giving deferring deferring to Vidura sorry Vidura Uddhava deferring to Maitreya in because of his seniority because of his position so how this will be translated into practical day to day administrative realities will vary according to time, place, circumstance but at least the awareness when it is there that somebody is senior that person needs to be respected then that helps create put in place structure of thought and conduct which we may have to adjust according to time, place, circumstance but overall there has to be respect for the seniors and there is a pleasure in getting their association and sharing their association with others then it has Anukroshit gunadhamat so of the seniors so Narad Muni in his verse it goes up goes down and then comes to the middle so Anukroshim gunadhamat those who are younger to us sometime we will talk about this much more in detail that sometimes as leaders we have to give corrections to others so how to give corrections properly but as leaders who have subordinates then we have to be importantly kind and considerate and compassionate to them but that kindness is the greatest impetus often for young devotees to keep moving onwards in their devotional service so such kindness and as it says mercy so mercy is not just in terms of giving classes and sharing spiritual knowledge it is also in terms of overall being kind and gentle and if they have some concerns some anxieties some grievances then dealing with them in a sensitive and caring way that helps a lot for those devotees to stay motivated in the practise of devotional service after all the junior devotees those who are younger to us they are going to carry on the legacy of Srila Prabhupada they are going to carry on the legacy of Krishna and they are the people who are also going to represent Krishna they are representing Krishna in a small circle now they are going to represent more so they are like our internal customers the staff in our organisation is like the internal customers to the extent the staff is pleased the staff is happy they will behave properly with the customers and the business will flourish so like that although we are not going to talk we are not into money primarily we want to share spiritual knowledge but the principles of multiple organisations also apply to us to some extent so if younger devotees who are like our staff who are our members if they are happy then they if they feel encouraged and inspired by the association of their seniors then they feel motivated to act properly and attract others so the kindness to treat them like younger members of our family and even if they make mistakes we correct them lovingly gently and that that inspires them to move on and then probably the most challenging is the relationship with equals and we see that this relationship with equals had great difficulty caused great difficulty in Gaudiya Math after Shri Bhaktisant Raku departed and Prabhupada also had a great concern about that his disciples should be able to deal with each other properly so many of his leaders he expresses concerns that sometimes there are quarrels between devotees and he would request devotees to cooperate and live together so he would he told that you can show your love for me by how you cooperate now it equals it is said be friendly as friends when we are working with other devotees every devotee needs his or her own space and within that space they can operate and they will all grow organically as different nuclear centres where each devotee is like a centre who attracts others to Krishna and then there is overlap between these so by dealing with equals every devotee has to be given space and then when the space that overlaps there has to be a proper arrangement proper system by which things can be dealt with so we see that among the Pandavas when the five Pandavas married Draupadi there was a hierarchy Yudhishthira was their unquestioned leader but still they had they’re all five were husbands for Draupadi so now in order to have a proper harmonious dealing what was done it was not just oh we are five brothers we will trust each other Narada Muni himself came now somebody would say why does a sage have to interfere in marital affairs of a of householders but Narada Muni considered it so important that it should not lead to dissension among them and he told the story of a demon Sunda and Upansunda who had a gift of invincibility of not being killed by anyone except each other and they went around wreaking havoc in the universe still so Brahma given the benediction realised on the petition of the Devatas what a grave risk they posed for the universe and then he created a prostitute a woman named Tilottama and when she came both of them got attracted to her and both of them said she is my wife and you are sister and then they fought with each other and killed each other and that’s how the world was saved from their scourge Narada Muni told the story and he said that you have to have a proper arrangement so that there is no misunderstanding and then they made a plan when one of us is with Draupadi then others should not interfere at that time and it was and it was such a they took that arrangement so seriously that when Arjuna when he had to violate that because he wanted to serve a Brahmana his weapons were in the chamber where Yudhishthira and Draupadi were there so he went inside because he wanted to serve a Brahmana and he served the Brahmana and came back but after that he decided to go to a forest for one year that was the term of exile so we see that they took the took seriously the matter of making a policy about how to deal with each other with respect to this specific contentious issue and not only they made make the policy seriously with Narada Muni getting involved but after making the policy they also stuck to the policy very seriously and then Yudhishthira actually begged Arjuna requested Arjuna no I am not offended you can stay here you don’t need to go but he said no I have to keep my word I will go so the point is that dealing with equals we cannot take our equals for granted thinking oh he is also a devotee she is also a devotee they will understand yes whether they understand or not is the issue is not the issue the issue is whether we understand the dynamics of the relationship and whether we are ready to show the proper sensitivity proper respect so in general whenever there are contentious issues between devotees it’s important that we sit together properly and discuss and resolve the issues we will discuss this more in future sessions also now with respect to apart from devotees when we will move outward from the devotee community and apart from the devotee community we have other temples so similar principle applies to dealing with other temples also other temples are avyatras so overall we are members of the same family but we are like relatives so two temples are like relatives staying at two different places and yet we are belonging to the same bigger family the Prabhupada said he has built a house in which the whole world can live so different temples are like different rooms or we could say that is a mansion there are different big big rooms in that one big mansion that Prabhupada has created so now there are overall it is easy to have good relationships if we don’t have to have any interaction or contentious issues but often contentious issues come up so for example can one devotee from one temple go to another temples zone for doing distribution can they go for raising funds if they need and now these are issues which need to be sensitively dealt with somebody may say that your temple has already got so much funds even if you go and take a little fund what is the problem no rather than taking things this is basically taking things for granted and when we take things for granted like that it hurts people so the same thing which is applied to the Pandavas can apply here also there has to be discussion and then the proper policy is to be made and once the policy is made one sticks to the policy so that there is no unnecessary hard burning so often in the devotee community what happens is that when between temples there is some cause for dissension because of inappropriate action from one side rather than talking with each other people talk about each other so this temple is like that that temple is like that unnecessarily the atmosphere the congeniality between the temples gets spoiled so having policies by proper discussion and then sticking to the policies sometimes the policies don’t have to be like absolute Lakshman Rekhas sometimes the policies have to be negotiated and that also should be done with the discussion so basically cooperation between temples is important because we are one movement and apart from the house example we can take the example of the army so each temple is like a battalion and each battalion is fighting in its own zone but then while fighting in its own zone there is sometimes overlapping, overlaps in the zones or the area they are fighting so now our enemy we have to fight with the enemy, we are waging a war against illusion so battalions start fighting against each other then their effectiveness in combating with the enemy gets decreased tremendously at Virat when the Kaurava army discovered that it was Arjuna who was there dressed as a eunuch then Kripa said that Drona said that oh warriors it’s impossible for us to win this war against Arjuna so Karna started scorning Arjuna and started scorning Drona also because Drona was speaking so highly about Arjuna and hearing this Ashwathama became angry and Ashwathama was about to attack Karna at that time Duryodhana came in between and Duryodhana was unaffected then Bhishma intervened and Bhishma he spoke to everyone and he said for an army dissension in its ranks dissent means resentment against authority dissension means fighting amongst each other dissension in its ranks is the greatest threat oh warriors Arjuna is a formidable enemy and we need to fight with him so he pacified everyone very expertly he said to Karna oh Karna Drona speaks words only to caution us he is a great warrior and has no fear and he certainly is not going to abandon his duty as a warrior but army needs to be cautious when facing a formidable enemy and Drona’s words are spoken only to make us cautious and then he turns to Drona and he says oh Karna wants to inspire us to fight more heroically and it is in that spirit of heroic fighting that Karna spoke those words please forgive him for those words and then he settles the issue amicably sometimes when there are conflicts over some zones or some overlapping areas overlapping zones then maybe sometimes some senior has to be involved and the issue has to be amicably resolved then beyond that there are more words within the devotee community itself there can be dealing with opposite sex so now we get resources we get money and we get people along them members of the opposite sex the leaders are men there are women so then these are resources which are meant for the service of Krishna so they are to be engaged in Krishna’s service and then if we use them for our sense gratification not only do we go down in our devotional life but also we hurt others those who are involved those who get exploited and people in general the devotee community as well as people in general where bad name is created so there has to be a great caution in dealing with these things we have seen that especially with respect to those who are to be protected women and children the children in our gurukul they are not protected and we faced a huge crisis not just in terms of the bad press and the financial implications of the child abuse case but in terms of the loss of the younger generation who were scarred permanently hopefully not that the scars will keep them away from Krishna but still very deep scars so those who are to be engaged in Krishna’s service they need protection and that reminder is that these are for Krishna’s service and we deal with them appropriately and this is also a big subject and this is often talked about so I won’t go into this much in detail but the principle is that what is to be engaged in Krishna’s service they should not be used for our gratification beyond that another important group of people could be influential people in society so when we talk about influential people in society they can be say people who are big donors people who are in today’s community scientists are often considered very influential and there can be others who are vital for the movement forward of a particular project now when it comes to donors we are quite clear in the Bhagavatam may condemn materialistic people that those who are not devoters who are not hearing Krishna’s glory those who are not devoting they are like dogs, hogs camels and arses now when we go to people maybe for inspiring them to do donations we don’t speak to them that oh you are dogs, hogs, camels, arses obviously not they are there is a time and place for speaking everything of course if they are interested in supporting Krishna’s mission then they are not non-devotees whom ought to be condemned but even if they are non-devotees then somehow they are connected with some devotee and we can have an opportunity to give them funds of Krishna so the message which is to be given has to be presented in a way that enables people to come closer to Krishna speaking truthfully doesn’t mean just speaking the truth irrespective of its effect on others speaking truthfully also means speaking the truth in a way that attracts people to the truth so it may mean not that we compromise and we waffle but that we speak to people in a way that inspires them to serve Krishna so there are many cases where Prabhupada would go out of his way to deal extra carefully with people who are influential so we know that Prabhupada cancelled his tour he was on a world tour and he was in America and when he had an opportunity to meet Indira Gandhi he cancelled his tour and came all the way to India to meet her and then similarly Prabhupada writes in a letter that in the early days there were not many influential people coming to our movement so when Brahman and Prabhu got the opportunity to network with Macmillan and get Prabhupada’s Bhagavad Gita published to Macmillan Prabhupada told deal with them very carefully dealing with carefully means you know if we make a word we keep the word if there is an appointment we go on time if they expect us to do something we do it properly so overall sort of careful dealing with important people can help us to reach out to reach out to a lot of people because these people have a lot of influence so even with scientists Prabhupada would speak strongly about atheistic scientists who mislead people away by godless theories but when he asked the devotees to arrange conferences and the devotees asked him how should we deal with these scientists Prabhupada said deal with them courteously it is not that one has to speak in an inappropriate way to them so when we are dealing with influential people we deal with them in a way that attracts them to Krishna and enables us to use their influence for reaching out for pushing forward Krishna’s message in an effective way so some extra sensitivity is required because these people can cause can help in a great way and can also damage in a great way and beyond that the whole big field would be before we get to the last our own relatives and our acquaintances our non-devotional, pre-devotional acquaintances now often when we come to devotional service we want our relatives also to come to devotional service but they often want us to grow onwards in our material life so this is in one sense a conflict of what they want and what we want so Prabhupada urges us to follow what Naraguni tells a householder in his, the relatives will always give suggestions for how to make economic improvement so you should just nod and move onwards doing what is important for your spiritual life that’s what Naraguni says and Prabhupada also says something similar relatives give suggestions if we if they give non-devotional suggestions then we cannot act on them but at the same time if there is a debate then there is unnecessarily bad breath and especially those who are in our relationship, elder to us they are usually not in a position to hear from us and because they are not in a position to hear from us our speaking to them in an instructive mode only alienates them it doesn’t help them come closer to Krishna, it makes them go away from us and go away from Krishna also so just gentle behaviour, gentle action gentle behaviour, we hear them without contradicting and then we move on in our life, it’s not that they are there to observe all around, all the time, we act in the way that is best for our devotional self so not having unnecessary conflicts and offering due respect, when Brahmanandra’s mother came to meet Prabhupada told her to bow down to her mother, she had never had her son bow down and she was wondering what is my son doing but Prabhupada told her to bow down and because that was the way through that he conveyed that you should respect your mother, respect your parents so sometimes in the name of protecting our devotion and not following their instructions we may not even follow the show basic respect, so that is undesirable one devotee after becoming a devotee went to his parents, went to his mother and said if you don’t chant Hare Krishna you will become a dog his mother tears in her eyes, she says you have already become a dog why are you behaving like this actually mother had tears in her eyes and father said you have already become a dog, why are you behaving like this so we needn’t be we shouldn’t be disrespectful we can actually if we are sensitive and intelligent we can walk the balance between at one side being respectful to them and at the same time tactfully being tactful and not having to do something non-demotional just to hurt them and the last thing we should discuss is people of other faith this is an elaborate subject and Prabhupada’s pattern of behaviour was broadly two-fold, if somebody was a seeker coming to him even if that person was following some other faith earlier, that doesn’t matter if somebody is a nominal Christian nominal Jew and not really practising that path at all, then Prabhupada will inspire them, practise Krishna Consciousness Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s mercy is there, you can advance tremendously with tremendous speed and ease, but if somebody was already a committed follower of a particular path then Prabhupada would not try to convert them when some some people who were either nuns or pastors or other priests who would come to meet him, then he would be very cordial and respectful to them now we know that with respect to Christians he would take issues with their thou shall not kill but apart from so he would be concerned if they are not following the instructions of their faith, but at the same time he was courteous with them because they were following that faith so we have Bhaktivedanta Thakur speaking of Chaitanya Shiksha Amrit that when we go to a place of worship in some other tradition, then we should stay there in a mood of respect contemplating that the Lord who manifests to me in a familiar form in my tradition is manifesting here in an unfamiliar form in a different tradition so because of the different manifestation and because of my system of training, I am unable to comprehend it fully, but still by seeing how merciful this Lord is that he is manifested in a different way to attract a different group of people my appreciation for his mercifulness is increased and my attraction to him in the form that I am familiar with my devotion to that form is increased so by seeing others commitment to their we can respect others commitment to their faith, we don’t have to go about, especially if we are going to interfaith meeting, we are following, we are interacting with people who are who are committed to a particular faith, then we don’t go there with a conversionist agenda we go there for having cordial relationships and nowadays when we live in a secular world often those who are religious people they often need to work together to maintain, to protect religion, so we have Prabhupada writing a letter to Pope John Paul II where he says that we should all work together to counter godlessness in society, so Prabhupada wrote to Pope John Paul at this time and then similarly the Pope at that time and the point is that that we need to work together with people who are faith leaders of other traditions quite often in a secular world which is increasingly anti-religion, anti-god so for that purpose we respect them and encourage them to follow their path in whatever way is appropriate according to our position and our relationship with them then the ISKCON communication ministry has got a faith statement on interfaith and this is this is also passed by GBC and I won’t go into the full statement over here two points I’ll make, that first is that we respect the with respect to other, there are so many religions and religious expressions in this world, so how do we deal with them, so we consider love of god to be the highest expression of spiritual highest spiritual expression, naturally we can very easily relate with those who talk of, aspire for love for a personal god but in those spiritual paths where a personal conception of god is not manifest then there also we accept their spiritual worth because they are also helping people move towards spirituality in some way or the other and even those organisations those religious organisations focus more on ethical, moral social contributions, they are also helping the social fabric, so we appreciate them also, now the way we deal with them will vary according to time, place, circumstance and then one more important point Bhaktivinoda Thakur says that one should not always go about proclaiming the controversial superiority of one’s own religious teachers over others, since one can and one should believe in that superiority, but nothing good can be achieved by constantly speaking about the superiority to others so for example in the Gaudiya Vishnu tradition we have a very elevated conception of, revelation of god and a very elevated conception of love for god but when we are interacting with people of other faith and especially for an interfaith forum that is not the forum for proving our superiority, that is a forum for developing relationships, so as Bhaktivinoda Thakur says, one should not always be in the mood of proving one’s controversial superiority, so that it is controversial and there are forums for outreach and in forums for outreach if you are preaching the siddhanta where we are asked, where we have the where we are meant to preach the siddhanta, there we should definitely do, people are coming to us in our programmes and definitely speak the philosophy over there in a way that inspires people to take it up, but with people of other faith, we have to deal in a sensitive way, we respect what they are following encourage them to follow better and we develop friendly relationship with them, so in this way leaders can deal with different groups of people in a way that promotes Krishna’s mission effectively, thank you Hare Krishna