​Was the Pandavas’ killing Bhishma and Drona according to dharma?

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Transcript

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So the way Pandavas killed Bhishma and Drona, was it correct according to Dharma? Yeah, so actually before the war starts both the commanders meet at that time Duryodhana also comes there the Kauravas say that Pandavas remember the codes of Dharma and fight according to the codes of Dharma only Duryodhana says of course what is the question? We are going to fight according to the codes of Dharma Shri Duryodhana is also he is savvy so there must have been hidden agenda over there then he comes back and he says that we will surely fight according to the codes of Dharma he is thinking that the Kauravas have committed so much of Dharma throughout and now they are reminding us of Dharma so he says we will not be the first to break the codes of Dharma but if you break the codes of Dharma then we will not hold ourselves back we will not hold ourselves back so this is an agreement which the Kauravas also agreed Kauravas say that we will not break the codes of Dharma but eventually what happens is they break so now I will talk more about this especially with respect to Karna in tomorrow’s class Bhishma and Drona let us talk now see a jai before the war is about to begin there are two interruptions first is the interruption when Krishna when Arjuna says I will not fight Krishna speaks the Bhagavad Gita the second interruption is when Yudhishthir actually takes off his crown gets off his chariot and walks over to the Kauravas everybody is alarmed what has happened so Yudhishthir he wants to seek the blessings of his elders and one of the blessings when he seeks the blessings one of the blessings he asks is it’s a very difficult blessing to ask he asks you to please tell me how I can kill you so he has to do that because that’s how he can win the war he has to win the war so Bhishma says that Bhishma actually gives a very enigmatic answer there are 5-4 elders for Bhishma for Yudhishthir who’s blessings he seeks Bhishma, Drona, Kripa and Shalya so all of them give very interesting answers so Bhishma says that I have decided that I will never fight against I will never fight against Brahmanas, against sages, against women and against those who have been women in their previous lives against those who have been women in their previous lives and actually he doesn’t say previous life against those who have been women earlier so the previous life is implied but not exactly over there so what happens is Drona says that I cannot be defeated Bhishma also says I cannot be defeated but I will not fight against these people Drona says that as long as I am raised by weapons no one will be able to defeat me but on hearing some disagreeable news from a trustworthy source I will put down weapons then I can be defeated Kripa says I cannot be defeated go ahead and attain victory what that means is actually Kripa he cannot be defeated himself but he doesn’t have knowledge of mystic weapons that’s why he is not a great threat to the Pandavas so he cannot destroy the Pandavas too much although he himself will not be defeated and then Shalya he says that actually O Pandavas I will fight with the Kauravas fight on the Kauravas side heroically but when the time comes you will be able to defeat me that is his time so now when it comes to specifically to Bhishma’s death so on the 10th day Bhishma and Shikhandi they come together sorry Arjuna and Shikhandi they come together and they start fighting against Bhishma so Shikhandi has been in a previous life Amba that’s a whole long story but Amba has become Shikhandi and Amba has taken a vow that she feels that Bhishma has been the cause of the ruination of her life and she says I will ruin his life I will kill him so then Amba becomes Shikhandi actually when she is born actually as a female Shikhandini but then there is a whole story why she becomes a male but the important point here is that when the fight is happening it’s primarily a fight between Arjuna and Bhishma and then when this fight is going on there are other warriors also who come so Shikhandi helps from Arjuna’s side Dushasan comes quite repeatedly at that time and tries to help Bhishma they are fighting so now sometimes it is depicted as if Arjuna hides behind Shikhandi and then Arjuna shoots arrow at Bhishma it’s not exactly like that it is that both of them are attacking and Arjuna in the vicinity of Shikhandi and when the two are very close to each other in order to not hit Shikhandi Bhishma avoids attacking Arjuna but throughout it all it’s a long fight and when Dushasana comes to help Bhishma, Bhishma says that Shikhandi’s arrows cannot hurt me he says those arrows are coming at me but they are just like pinpricks because the point is not just to shoot arrows not just to hit the target also with the arrows it’s also with how much force the arrow hits the target like a bullet comes and hits me but if the bullet doesn’t penetrate into my body I will not be hurt much so the arrows they depend not only the wounds caused by the arrows their impact depends not only on the precision with which they hit the target but also with the momentum the force with which they hit the target that’s how much they penetrate and that’s how much they wound the warrior so when Shikhandi shoots his arrows they don’t hurt Bhishma much Bhishma himself tells this it is Arjuna’s arrows that hurt and when the fighting is going on if Arjuna is shooting to shoot the arrow, Arjuna has to look at Bhishma if Arjuna is shooting entirely from behind Shikhandi the arrow will go through Shikhandi isn’t it? so Arjuna has to come out so basically Arjuna fights and Bhishma also fights at that time so it’s not that Arjuna is doing something unfair over there see we have to understand morality is not always categorical morality is also contextual morality means what is right, what is wrong this is the right category this is the wrong category whatever is in this category is right whatever is in this category is wrong you may think like this but right and wrong are also contextual so to steal from someone to take something that belongs to someone without their knowledge without their consent that is bad but suppose you have a friend who is feeling very depressed who you know may become suicidal and that person has a knife with which in the past they have slit their wrists also they may do it again now you go secretly and steal the knife away from them is that good or is it bad? stealing is bad but stealing a knife from someone who is becoming suicidal that is good so what is right and what is wrong is not so easy to decide so in this particular case when the Pandavas when Arjuna and Shikhandi fight together and they bring Bheeshma down is it wrong? yes, if we simply think that okay Arjuna was hiding behind Shikhandi and fighting then you may say there is no doubt it is wrong but if you look at the overall picture it is that it was Arjuna and Shikhandi both of them were fighting and Shikhandi’s arrows did not wound Bheeshma it was not that Shikhandi was killing and Bheeshma was not retaliating and that is why Bheeshma died no, Shikhandi’s arrows did not hurt Bheeshma much it was Arjuna’s arrows that hurt and when Arjuna was shooting the arrows Bheeshma was also countering at that time that is the first thing second thing is that Bheeshma himself indirectly revealed the way he will be killed and indirectly said I will not be fighting against Shikhandi and throughout the days of the war Shikhandi would challenge Bheeshma and Bheeshma would just turn away and start fighting with someone else or sometimes Shikhandi would challenge Bheeshma and for a Kshatriya to turn away would be difficult so what they would do is the Kauravas would send somebody else to challenge Shikhandi or to come in between Shikhandi and Bheeshma and that is how they managed to prevent a direct confrontation for too long between them on this day the confrontation happened it was Bheeshma ultimately who was the person who revealed how to kill me and in that sense from the broader perspective of morality it is not immoral it is strategic strategy means that if your enemy has a weakness use that now you can’t call that immoral say if in India Pakistan cricket match is going on India is good at spin batting India has got to go to spin ballers suppose there is an Australian team which is not good at a spin so India makes a pitch which is very good for spinners well that is a strategy when we go to Australia they will make a pitch which is very good for pacers and we don’t have such good fast ballers and we are not good at fast playing against fast batsmen that is a strategy so it was not immoral Bheeshma had a weakness and that weakness was exploited over there and most importantly he himself said Bheeshma did not actually want the Pandavas to lose Bheeshma wanted the Pandavas to win and he himself told how he can be brought down so rather than immoral it is strategic what they did now with respect to Drona it was different when the killing of Drona came up at that time this happened on the 15th day so Drona was Drona was actually the Mahabharata describes that Drona by the bad association of Duryodhana and Ashwathama sorry by the bad association of Duryodhana or rather not the bad association by the constant goading of Duryodhana goading means and Duryodhana was always accusing him you are partial, you are not fighting fairly you are not fighting wholeheartedly because you love the Pandavas so that got to him and that’s how he did that terrible thing on the 13th day on 13th day he arranged for Abhimanyu to be killed because he suggested that six of us can attack together so if you consider from the point of view of the violation of war codes it was Drona himself who led a grievous violation of war codes so so the first major violation of law codes that was done by the Kauravas and the Pandavas retaliated even in the retaliation it was a measured retaliation Drona ok wait a minute see ok so what was wrong in Drona’s killing Abhimanyu ok the strategy of forming a Chakravyuha is not at all wrong Chakravyuha is meant to allure some warrior inside so the Chakravyuha was formed primarily because he wanted to have Yudhishthira arrested that was what Drona that was what Duryodhana had asked him to do and Drona actually what happened is on the 11th and 12th days Drona Drona tried vigorously to have Yudhishthira arrested and he came very close Yudhishthira’s chariot was destroyed Yudhishthira’s armor was destroyed but in the nick of time Arjuna came over there Arjuna stopped him both days on 12th night when Yudhishthira was when Duryodhana was goading Drona Drona said that I have tried my best but Arjuna if he comes in the way I will not be able to arrest Yudhishthira get Arjuna out of the way I will arrest him and on that day Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona Drona So, at this particular point, Drona becomes incensed by Duryodhana’s constant goading and he starts attacking ordinary warriors. He uses mystic weapons against ordinary warriors and starts killing them.
So when that happens, he suddenly sees in the sky, there are some mystical beings, some sages over there. And those sages tell him, oh Drona, why are you acting so viciously? Now you have violated the principles of dharma by killing ordinary people with mystical weapons. Stop this at once.
Now when he speaks this, when he hears this, he is troubled. He doesn’t act accordingly immediately to it, but he is troubled and he starts thinking, should I fight or should I not fight? And during this period, he has been fighting so fiercely that the Pandavas are stunned. How to fight against them? And Krishna tells Yudhishthira, actually we have to do something right now to get him to stop.
So he says that his weakness is Ashwathama. So tell him that Ashwathama has been killed. Then he will stop fighting.
Only then can you save your army. So Arjuna protests. How can you tell him that Ashwathama has been killed like this? You cannot do that.
That will be a lie. So at that point, Bhima, Bhima is very strategic, he says, he charges into the Kaurava army and there is an elephant division over there. And in that elephant division, there is an elephant whose name is Ashwathama.
So he goes and kills that elephant. And then he returns back and while returning back, he passes by Drona and he says, Ashwathama is dead. Now Drona’s heart trembles at that time, but then he thinks, Bhima, Bhima is not a very trustworthy person.
So he puts aside the word and he keeps fighting, keeps fighting again, but then again, he says, stop fighting. You are fighting adharmically. On one side, he sees the sages discouraging him, chastising him, reproaching him, Ashwathama is killed.
He feels conflicted. At that time, whom to ask? So he sees Yudhishthira and he approaches Yudhishthira. At that time, Krishna tells Yudhishthira, okay, only you can save our army today.
Yudhishthira is conflicted, not knowing what to do. And then, Yudhishthira comes along, Drona comes along. So he asks about Ashwathama and he says, Ashwathama has been killed, but then he speaks, Narova Kunjarova.
Whether it is the man who is killed or the elephant who is killed, I don’t know. Whether the man has been killed or the elephant has been killed. But at that time, Krishna blows his conch.
And when he blows his conch, Drona doesn’t hear this. And Drona becomes overwhelmed. Oh, Ashwathama is dead.
And he just puts aside his weapons. He says, I will not fight. Now, Arjuna’s plan, I mean, Arjuna reluctantly goes along with this plan.
Arjuna’s plan is to have Drona, to arrest Drona. But the point is, if Drona is not fighting, he is no threat. If Drona puts aside his weapons, they go and arrest him.
And then he will be out of the fight and they can continue the fight. So Drona just decides, I will not fight. And he sits down in mystic trance.
He sits down in yogic posture to do meditation. And Arjuna is just thinking about how to approach Drona. At that time, Dhrishtadyumna, he charges forward.
And Dhrishtadyumna says that, I mean, he has been born to kill Drona. He has been fighting against Drona again and again. But every time they have fought, Drona has easily defeated Dhrishtadyumna.
There is just no match. Dhrishtadyumna thinks, this is my opportunity. And as Dhrishtadyumna is charging towards Drona, Arjuna shouts, Stop! And there are several other Kshatriyas also, Stop! They see what he is going to do.
So, they all run towards him to stop him. But Dhrishtadyumna just charges forward. That particular action of killing Drona is an impulsive action of Dhrishtadyumna.
That is not a part of the planned conspiracy. That is not at all a part of the planned conspiracy. He charges forward and he catches Drona by his hair.
And she drags him off the chariot where he is sitting and waiting. And lops off his head. And Yudhishthir, Arjuna is horrified.
Arjuna is furious. Arjuna is so angry at that time. Arjuna wants to attack Dhrishtadyumna.
How dare you kill your own teacher? You killed my teacher like this when he was defenseless, when he was not fighting. Actually, this is the closest, this event is the closest when there is dissension and almost conflict among the Pandavas. So, at that time, Krishna holds Arjuna back.
And Bhima holds Dhrishtadyumna back. And then he stopped. So, the point is that Yudhishthir is lying or strategic.
Dhrishtadyumna’s killing was immoral. Yudhishthir is lying or strategic. So, that was just, and if you see, there was no organized conspiracy the way it was for killing Abhimanyu.
The Kauravas had no plan to arrest Abhimanyu. Abhimanyu was chariotless, weaponless. Even then they were attacking him.
So, in that sense, we see that was it wrong, the killing was wrong but the lying before that was not exact, it was strategic. And even if we say it was wrong, still the principle remains that the law codes were to be followed from both sides. And when the Kauravas violated the law codes first and the Pandavas were also entitled to violate the law codes.
So, I will talk So, in essence, because Drona had done wrong in terms of having Abhimanyu killed So, he was grievously in the wrong. He further did wrong in terms of killing ordinary warriors with celestial weapons. And he was told by the celestial being that now your time has come, stop fighting.
Give up. So, he himself recognized that now my time has come over. So, basically when he sat down to do meditation, that is one form of meditation which is called Prayavrata.
Prayavrata. Prayavrata means it’s fasting till death. So, there are many warriors they just decide that, not warriors, many sages or whatever, those who decide that now my life’s mission is over I’ll stop eating, I’ll stop drinking and I will be in a yogic meditation till I leave my body.
So, more or less, Drona had decided to sit in that meditation. So, Drona was planning to leave his body at that time. So, there is a whole complex setting that was there.
And the Pandavas’ plan was to disarm him and have him arrested so that he will not be a threat to them. But it was impulsive killing which was wrong. And the Pandavas themselves recognized.
There was a dissension in the camp about whether it was right or wrong. And so, you have to understand this is contextually if you see from the broad picture, from the specific action the action of killing him was wrong. But from the broad picture Drona had done a far greater wrong and stopping him from doing further wrong was a right action to do.
Does that answer the question? Thank you.