What happens when a person over-respects or under-respects a devotee who has temporarily fallen?

From Revati Vallabha Prabhu:

In BG 9.30 & 31…sbvt tells how devotees are already above being dharmatma…& what these verse refer to is that even the person (observer) becomes dharmatma…. my questn is: (i heard u mention it in ur lecture, but a small doubt…)

What happens if the person (observer) currently thinking:

a) not so highly about the devotee due to temporary falldown of devotee, or

b) highly about the devotee even though devotee may have temporarily fallen..

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
thank you question by Devotee Vallabh Prabhu as regards Bhagavad Gita 9.30 and 31 Krishna Bhaktivinoda Thakur mentions that how a devotee is already above a dharmatma and this says that the observer of a devotee will become a dharmatma so the question is that what will happen if a person who is observing thinks not so highly about a devotee because of a temporary fall down of that devotee or thinks highly about a devotee even though that devotee may have temporarily fallen answer the verses 9.30 and 31 in the Bhagavad Gita have been the most commented and debated verses among the several such verses that are there in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna Bhaktivinoda Thakur in his commentary Rasikranjan gives a fascinating understanding of this verse these two verses so basically a literal translation of that verse, these two verses says that अपिचेत सुदराचा रोभजिते मामनन्यभावसादु रेवसमन्तव्यसम्यग्यवसितोहि सहा even if such a person Krishna is talking about devotees over here even if a devotee commits the most abominable activity still he is to be considered saintly because his determination is fixed and the next verse says that such a person will soon become saintly and then he will attain lasting peace and Arjuna declares to the world that my devotee will never perish Krishna Bhaktivinoda Thakur explains these two verses by saying that there are basically three levels of action one is the simple level which is the सुदराचा रोभजिते then there is the pious level, the religious level which is धर्मात्मा and there is the pure devotional level which is भजते माम अनन्यभाग so now what he is saying here, Bhaktivinoda Thakur explains that the verse is actually referring to the gopis of Vraja Leela from the worldly point of view they are सुदराचा रोभजिते because they leave their homes at night and act like unchaste wives but he says they are far from being at the lowest or sinful level, they are actually at the level of pure devotional self, भजते माम अनन्यभाग and one who recognizes their glory in this way शिप्रं भवति धर्मात्मा such a person by recognizing and glorifying the love of the gopis he will become purified and he will also become a religious person by this so this is the explanation of the verse given by Bhaktivinoda Thakur so now as regards this question of under respecting a devotee or over respecting a devotee now one thing to be made clear is that Bhaktivinoda Thakur’s explanation should not be generalized for everyone because not everyone is doing apparently sinful activities while internally being surrendered totally surrendered to Krishna and this applies even to devotees devotees may have sometimes and they are surely not motivated by the principles of pure emotions so the specific explanation of Bhaktivinoda Thakur is primarily for the gopis, now in general as regards this verse जीविको स्वामी विष्णाचिकर ठाकुर before them Ramavicharya they all explain that this verse should never be taken as a license for committing sinful activities in the name of devotional service and this particular idea that just because one is devoted to God one can do any immoral activity and still one is exempt from any moral attribution or punishment this idea is called antinomianism antinomianism means that just because of one’s devotion to God one is free from all moral obligations and one can act morally without any accountability so this is surely not the philosophy of Thakur Gita a devotee is beyond morality not because he is immoral but because he has elevated to a level far higher than morality he is not below morality so now regarding the general understanding of this verse and the question here in general if a person under respects a devotee because of that devotee’s temporary fall down then then we have to check what form that under respect takes, in general if that person is going about talking bad about that other devotee then that person needs to be told that that is actually very displeasing to Krishna and that can comprise a Vaishnav Raj and so that person can be cautioned to at least not speak about the fault or fall of a devotee at the same time sometimes certain things have to be informed for the protection of the community of devotees and if such information is given in that service mood then that should not be considered as a sign of under respecting of a devotee our attitude in general should try to echo Krishna’s attitude Krishna sees both the dark side in us and the bright side in us Krishna sees our dark side more than the whole world and more than we ourselves but still he doesn’t focus on the dark side Krishna doesn’t focus on the problems and the unorthodox within us he focuses on the potential and the devotion within us however little that may be the same way, even if a devotee is having some problems presently we can look at the past of that devotee and based on that try to cultivate a respectful attitude if not a respectful attitude at least a non-disrespectful attitude by which we recognize, ok this devotee has done something valuable in the past and he will come back on the right track again one very helpful metaphor for seeing the devotees who have problems is a metaphor of a deceased person especially a person with an infectious disease so sometimes even a doctor who has himself saved many patients of infectious disease may later become infected by the same disease because of some carelessness or because of some other circumstance so now the doctor’s past curing of the patient is still valid and he has to be commended for that but at present the patient is a doctor rather who has now become a patient is sick and is sick with infectious disease so if we associate carelessly with that doctor who is presently an infected person then we will also get infected so we need to keep a safe distance from that doctor because of the infection at the same time if the doctor has performed some notable service in the past that needs to be respected so the disease metaphor is very helpful to understand how we should approach such people now of course the main problem of the disease metaphor is that generally disease happens when disease happens we see the person as a victim this germ has attacked him and has infected him whereas when a person falls down we don’t see the person as a pathological victim of something wrong but rather we see that person as an active instigator who has voluntarily chosen to do something wrong yes while this understanding is true at the same time it is because of the infection of the anarthas that the person was impelled to do that wrong thing and certainly if any wrong doing serious wrong doing has happened then some sort of reaction will be required but at the end the soul is still pure and the anarthas are like diseases that’s why Vishwamitra Bhagavatam reputedly uses the word bhava roga to talk about the anarthas so the anartha metaphor is not just for anarthas the disease metaphor is shastrically sound and we need to keep it in mind while interacting with devotees who are having problems presently respect them for what they are in the past but recognize that present condition is like a diseased condition and we have to be careful not that we don’t get infected if we are in a position that we can be of some service to them and help them become free from the infection just like a doctor can help a patient to become free from infection then we can maybe do that service but if we are in a position where we might get infected by that infection then better we keep a distance maintain respect for the past service and maintain a distance because of the present infection now with respect to somebody who thinks highly about a devotee even though that devotee has temporarily fallen that means there is over respect so again the important thing is what form does the over respect take if the over respect is just a mental conception then there is no harm in that in general but if that person is actually treating the devotee who has fallen as a spiritual guide and spiritual authority and taking guidance from that person then that may lead to the particular observer getting misled so therefore if a person is having currently some difficulties with the anarthas and if other senior devotees at that time feel that a person cannot be in a position to guide others then we need to keep a then we need not take guidance from that person so if its a situation you have to understand that a person who was a good doctor earlier and who has the potential of becoming a good doctor again is presently sick and because of the sickness the person is not in the most clear consciousness to actually prescribe treatment even very competent doctors if they are sick they don’t prescribe treatment and even if they prescribe treatment sometimes there are other respective members of medical fraternity who need to second that treatment, confirm that and sometimes in the recommendations don’t take the treatment from that doctor its not something against that doctor but its the current condition of the doctor so if the over respect is taking the form of seeking instructions and guidance from a devotee who has temporarily fallen then that should be at least temporarily stopped till the devotee comes back to proper standing but apart from that if the respect is just in the mind for the past services that have been performed then there is no harm in that in fact appreciating the services of a devotee can in itself help us to please Krishna and make spiritual advancement thereby so Bhaktivinoda Thakur’s esoteric interpretation of the Bhagavata verse is something primarily for relishing it is not something that we can apply in our day to day situation especially if a devotee has fallen in terms of breaking some of the foundational regulative principles of bhakti now in a sense where it can be applied is that some people may consider say sanyasis travelling across the oceans to be wrong, to be adharmic but actually it is not they may consider it to be like a duracha but Shila Prabhupada went abroad and he transformed people all over the world so those who understand the glory of Shila Prabhupada and glorify him, recognizing that far from being a wrong action going across the ocean, it is a glorious action, far from being a something, some sort of a duracha, it is actually bhajate mamalanya bhak it is actually the testimony to Shila Prabhupada’s unalloyed devotion that after going to the land which was like the capital of degradation in the whole world, he stayed not only did not himself get in the least degraded but he made so many other people elevated so Shila Prabhupada went on a complete one point mission to simply elevate the people over there and when we understand the glory of Shila Prabhupada and glorify him that itself will give us pious grace that will lead us to become Dharmatma so this is one way in which we can understand this verse in our current times but in general when devotees are having actual falls we have to take the understanding given by by other acharyas where they see that their fall is temporary and it will be corrected by the power of devotion so if a devotee has fallen then how can the devotee be called as Ananyabhak so Shri Dhar Swami explains that this means that devotee is devoted only to Krishna the devotee doesn’t think oh now I have fallen, it’s no use to worship Krishna, let me go and worship Shiva or let me go and worship Ganesh or let me go and worship some other Devata maybe that worship will be better so Ananyabhak means that the faith in Krishna the one pointedness of the worship of Krishna not distracted to any other gods that remains intact even when the devotee in his actions behaves in regrettable ways Vishwanath Chaturvedi explains that Ananyabhak means the devotee maintains his faith in the process of bhakti when the devotee still has a fall, he doesn’t think oh bhakti is not sufficiently powerful process, maybe I need to practice gyan, maybe I need to practice yoga and then that will actually purify me, so the Ananyabhak essentially means that the the devotee’s faith in the goal and in the process in the sadhya and the sadhanam, in Krishna and bhakti, it remains undiverted it remains unshaken but the devotee may still have some lapse in the practice that may be a slip or that may be a fall and whatever necessary measures are there for the protection of the community of devotees and for the reformation of that particular devotee they need to be implemented so that the devotee can gradually get elevated and the community’s faith is also maintained thank you