What makes relationships spiritual and sustainable – Marriage reception talk

[Talk at ISKCON, Melbourne, Perth]

Video:

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
with the guidance of senior devotees thank you very much Hare Krishna Hare Krishna I am grateful to be here amongst all of you today at the lotus feet of their Lordships and on the occasion of the wedding of Shri Samayatma Prabhu and Shri Ganeshwari Mataji so for me it’s almost three decades since ever I attended a wedding reception so after I became a Brahmachari my brother got married but I didn’t attend his wedding reception also I went there but I did not go to the wedding ceremony or the reception so but over the years as I have tried to practise bhakti and I have tried to share bhakti wisdom in India as well as elsewhere my own understanding of what it takes to develop a relationship how every relationship can be a source of bondage but it can also be a source of bonding and how we need to rise from the level of bondage to the level of bonding bonding is a natural need of the human heart bondage is something which keeps the soul in material existence these two are very different results both of which can come from relationships so especially when I speak in colleges and I last somehow by in last one year six months I have been in America especially in college outreach and when I interact with Western students one of the things which consistently comes out is how most of them are from broken families and it makes it very difficult for them to trust anyone and even to trust Krishna or Krishna’s representatives so the family is the foundation of society when the family breaks society breaks and it leads to a great crisis so I’ll talk today about as may I propose it how to make relationships spiritual and sustainable I’ll talk first from the bhagavad-gita 18.20 to 22 about relationships in about three more relationships in the three modes of course the section talks more about knowledge in the three modes but that concept of the principle of knowledge can also be applied to relationships so Krishna in 18.22 says that he says when we see one thing to be everything when we think one thing to be everything and we do not see the full truth our knowledge is very partial so for example when we look at people all of us based on our interactions with them or based on our presumptions we often affix labels to people oh this person is from this community these people are very miserly these people are from this community they are dumb people there are people from this community they are very violent people or even when we not even community based on our perception you see some person so lazy so short-tempered so this so that so now what we are doing is we are taking one aspect and we are making a generalisation so when we do that when we take one aspect of a person and generalise it universalise it and one thing we make into everything and such labels can actually not only obstruct relationships but they can ruin relationships because you’re not seeing the person as a full person we are seeing only one aspect of it now this can lead to when we find one aspect of a person very attractive we just get irresistibly attracted and then we when we find one person of that person and one aspect of the person unattractive we get irrepressibly repelled so that’s why in the mode of ignorance when our knowledge is shaped that way we can’t see things as they are so that seeing one aspect of a person and judging or labelling a person based only on one aspect is it’s something depriving us of the totality of reality and this can apply even in spiritual circles we can label a person simply based on their ashram this person in this ashram this person in this ashram yes the ashram is important but whichever ashram it is we are all meant to take ashram of Krishna and the ashram is meant to facilitate us in taking ashram of Krishna so if we label people just based on the ashram they are in without seeing their devotion without seeing their dedication without seeing their commitment to serving Krishna then again we have a very superficial understanding of bhakti so this is knowledge in the mode of ignorance and relationships formed based on knowledge in the mode of ignorance they are basically labelling you this person is like this this person like this we don’t see any depth in our vision in the mode of passion Krishna says what is the nature of knowledge he says that he says that when we equate people with their physical shells and we think okay this person is like this this person like this this person like this and we are all different one is not able to in ignorance we just look at one aspect and make it the totality but in passion we look at differences and we think those differences are irreducible and final so basically we are unable to see the commonality in the mode of passion we want to control we want to see the whole world in a way in which I can control it and every relationship becomes a means for controlling others so controlling so that we can enjoy once husband and wife went to a court and they were having a court battle among themselves battle was the husband wanted and my son should become an engineer and the wife wanted that a son should become a doctor and the judge said why do you have to come to court for this just ask the son what he wants to become so both the husband wife said we can’t ask him why not he’s not yet born so in the mode of passion our vision is basically control and even when there is a thing right now to control still we make future plans to control and if somebody disagrees this is my way to control this is your way to control we can’t agree and there is a violent disagreement so in the world when we function there is there are always going to be limited resources when we work with limited resources then there are always you cannot do things in many different ways is a limited resource you have to do this this way or that way so when everybody has the agenda to control then that leads to leads to serious differences so but in the knowledge of goodness in when we are in goodness then we see the essential equality of all living things. Krishna says in 18.20 that he says that in the mode of goodness we see the essential spirituality of all living things there’s a spiritual nature that pervades everyone and that means when we form relationships we form relationship not just at a physical level not just at the emotional level but we form it at a complete with a complete person body mind and soul and in the mode of goodness we understand that there is something which is in my control and there is something which is not in my control in the mode of ignorance we think nothing is in my control in the mode of passion we think everything is in my control in the mode of goodness we understand that there has to be reciprocation negotiation discussion yes you are a soul I am a soul you have your needs I have my needs and let us see how we can work together now when we move in the mode of goodness we basically see the spiritual aspect of people but when we come to transcendence we see not just the spiritual aspect but we also see the supreme spiritual reality. Krishna says one who sees me everywhere and sees everything in me such a person is never lost to me nor am I ever lost such a person and then two verses later after this Krishna says if we have this vision then how do we see everyone in 6.32 he says the person sees that Krishna is everywhere Krishna is the Lord of all living beings and all of us are equal in that we are all equally parts of Krishna by comparing with oneself just as I need Krishna without Krishna I cannot be happy similarly others also need Krishna without Krishna they cannot be happy and there is empathy over here the things that cause me distress they cause others distress also the things that bring me happiness they bring others happiness so we see the similarity not just at the level of humanity we see the similarity not just at the level of spirituality but we see the similarity in our essential relationship with Krishna and Krishna says one who can see like this sayogi paramo mataha that is the topmost yogi the topmost yogi is not just one who sees Krishna everywhere but by seeing Krishna everywhere we start seeing that everyone is meant to be everyone has a relationship with Krishna and everyone is meant to be connected with Krishna so as I said earlier in goodness we see that some things are in our control and some things are not in our control but in transcendence we see that that which is not in our control is not out of control that is in Krishna’s control that is out of my control is in Krishna’s control that means that if some person behaves in a way that is disagreeable to me that irritates me that outrages me and at that time I don’t just see that person behaving in that way I see Krishna is in control and Krishna is letting this person behave in this way there is some purpose behind this I may not be able to perceive the purpose right now but we see not just that person’s behaviour in that way we see Krishna sanctioning that and then we reciprocate by seeing how can I best serve Krishna in this situation not just you did this to me I will do this to you so later in the 13th chapter Krishna says that samampasyani sarvatra samavasthita nishvaram nahi nastyatmanatmanam tato yati parangatim when we he says that samampasyani sarvatra when you see similarly everywhere what does it similarly sees us we see that in everyone’s heart there’s a super soul Krishna is present in everyone’s hearts samavasthita nishvaram when we can see like this then nahi nastyatmanatmanam then we won’t get degraded by our mind but tato yati parangatim but we will attain the supreme destination so by seeing that others actions are not just their actions it is Krishna is allowing it to happen and that doesn’t mean that we let whatever they are doing even if it is wrong we just accept it and endure it but rather we don’t act in an impulsive or vindictive way yeah okay how can I serve Krishna in the situation once Prabhupada was giving a class and suddenly a one person in the audience started shouting I started shouting all kinds of accusations against Prabhupada against Prabhupada’s movement against Krishna and he went on a trip and then finally he walked away in half the devotees were stunned and Prabhupada sat there quietly did not speak anything and then after that he continued his talk as if nothing had happened and then after that the devotees asked Prabhupada Prabhupada why did he act like that Prabhupada said I don’t know Krishna allowed it so I accepted it so it’s an extraordinary consciousness why people behave the way they would do it is quite difficult to understand it we can try to some extent but if Krishna has allowed it then how can I best serve Krishna in this situation sometimes it is by acceptance sometimes it is by negotiation by discussion but the essential spirituality of our relationship comes when we can see that I am not just responding to this person whatever way they behave I’m actually serving Krishna through this person now sometime it is said that some people bring happiness where they go and some people bring happiness when they go so some people they are so nice that we feel we feel inspired to do something for them we feel inspired to serve Krishna through them as this person so nice I would like to if that person is a devotee so I would like to serve that person serve them and we understand we are serving Krishna through them but some people are difficult and then when we are there it’s very difficult when those people are difficult they’re not behaving properly or are too demanding or too nagging or whatever at that time to serve Krishna or to see that I am serving Krishna through them so in that situation as devotees what we can see is okay I am not there are times when we can serve people and serve Krishna but sometimes you can say okay I’m not serving this person but still I am serving Krishna so in one sense first situation the people are likeable then what happens is we feel like serving that person and by serving that person we serve Krishna but in some situations the person may not be likeable at that time we serve Krishna not because this person is so likeable but in spite of that person that means even if this person is behaving an unreasonable way still I am a servant of Krishna and therefore let me try to serve how would a devotee serve in this situation and Prabhupada was asked how do we know your disciples Prabhupada answered they are perfect gentlemen perfect gentlemen perfect ladies that means they behave in a cultured way so now when I said some people some people bring happiness where they go and some people bring happiness when they go now quite often what happens is we all have our moods the same person can sometimes seem very likeable and sometimes seem unlikable or the same person can seem very likeable to some people and completely unbearable to another other set of people that’s because sometimes we meet some person and we have so much difficulty with that person and then somebody else and that person is singing lorries of that person are we talking about the same person so what happens is all of us come from different backgrounds and that’s why sometimes based on our moods our backgrounds we may be able to connect with some people and we just can’t connect with some people so if our primary defining relationship is our relationship with Krishna by fundamental identity is that I am a soul I am a servant of Krishna and however the other person behaves I am going to serve Krishna now sometimes for serving Krishna I may have to behave strongly sometimes I may have to behave gently whatever is appropriate for serving Krishna I will do that we human beings are inherently relational creatures relational creatures means that we define ourselves in terms of our relationships so when we are born we have identity and the son of so-and-so and the daughter of so-and-so as we grow up we form different relationship okay I’m the brother of so-and-so and the friend of so-and-so then as we grow further we get married we identify ourselves and the husband of so-and-so and the wife of so-and-so then as we grow up further we have children and the mother of so-and-so and the father of so-and-so so our we form different identities based on our relationships and whenever any relationship runs into a roadblock then it is not just that relationship that is a problem for us because when that relationship runs into a roadblock at that time we feel as if we ourselves are threatened because we define ourselves in terms of that relationship I gave a talk in a month ago I was in America I gave a talk on university to students so it’s talking about what are the prominent fears of people in today’s world so overall the fears are common this fear of death there is fear of public speaking this fear of other things so two fears have been added in the 21st century one is the fear of terrorists and the second is that top ten fears second is the fear of rejection in the past mostly whether India or the West most marriages would be arranged marriages now everybody has to try to present themselves as attractively as possible so that they can attract a partner and then when they are trying to attract if they are rejected they feel devastated so fear of rejection is a great fear now when somebody faces a rejection what is be what the problem is not just that relationship is not working out because we define ourselves in terms of our relationship so when we face rejection in a relationship it’s not just that we feel unloved actually we feel unloveable we feel as if I am not worthy of love and to feel unloved is distressing but to feel unloveable is devastating and even in the tiniest of creatures a cat is not normally a very harmful creature but if the cat feels threatened then with its claws with its with its teeth it can just rip the skin apart similarly sometimes people when they are in very close relationship with each other and then if they face some disruption or rejection in the relationship that is the time they can become when they feel threatened personally they become vindictive why because it’s not just a problem in the relationship they feel their self-worth and self-identity has been challenged that’s why sometimes two people they say initially I can’t live without you after one year I can’t live with you go to the other extreme because they are just driven by their emotions and then they feel unbearable to live so for us as devotees we also form relationships this is just a basic human need that’s a need of the heart but for us as devotees our primary identity has to be I am a servant of Krishna and this is a relationship in which we will never face rejection Krishna is never going to reject us even if we do the most terrible activity still Krishna is there in our heart there is nothing that we can ever do which will make Krishna say I’m going to leave your heart and go away now Krishna will always be there in our heart so when our primary identity is that I am a servant of Krishna jeeva krishna das, ei vishwas, korle tohara dukha nahi.
Bhaktivinoda Thakur says in a song that once we define ourselves as servants of Krishna then there is no distress in life that doesn’t mean life becomes problem-free but the problems don’t overwhelm us so when we define ourselves as servants of Krishna and then we see every relationship as a service to Krishna so I am a servant of Krishna and as a servant okay I’m the parent of so-and-so I am the brother of so-and-so I’m the sister of so-and-so I am the mother of so-and-so I am the husband of so-and-so I’m the wife of so-and-so when we see all our relationships as services to Krishna then even if there are some ups and downs in the relationships they don’t shake us so much because our self-identity is fixed I am secure in my identity as a servant of Krishna and as a servant of Krishna I am pursuing this relationship I am pursuing this role in this relationship and because it is a service to Krishna it is sacred and it needs to be done with serious commitment I’ll conclude with this point that often we think in the world in terms of attachment and detachment now either we are attached and I say one should not be attached or we talk about being detached but bhakti is beyond this dialectic of attachment and detachment bhakti centres neither on attachment nor on detachment bhakti centres on commitment ultimately it’s a commitment to Krishna that we have to develop Prabhupada says in one lecture that we often think that we are entangled in this world because we are attached which is no we are entangled in this world because we are detached because we are detached from Krishna so because we are detached from Krishna that’s why we are entangled and now the way to develop any relationship okay if I move for if I want to move from detachment from Krishna to attachment to Krishna how do I do that that is by commitment by committing myself no matter how I feel I will chant Krishna’s holy names no matter how I feel I will worship Krishna no matter how I feel I will serve Krishna so it is only by commitment that any relationship can become sustainable and sometimes we separate sometimes we separate relationships in terms of material and spiritual and that separation is good at one level but another level we can see so sometimes we say to give up material relationship and develop spiritual relationships but at another level ultimately we want to develop love for Krishna and that means we want to become selflessness selfless in our loving relationship with Krishna and every relationship can actually help us to grow in selflessness so every relationship that we have that forces us to come out of ourselves if I’m alone whatever my mind tells me I’ll do it but if I am with someone I have to think about that person so that forces me to come out of myself that means come out of my mind so in that sense every relationship if it is followed in a committed way then that helps us progress in our journey of selflessness and that journey culminates in Krishna so if I identify myself as a servant of Krishna if a partner identifies myself as a servant of Krishna and then we come together in a committed relationship then just as we are committed to Krishna just as we are committed to each other in both these commitments can actually nourish each other so by my commitment to Krishna even if there are ups and downs in the relationship I don’t get so disturbed because I am secure in my identity as a servant of Krishna so I don’t feel threatened by the ups and downs I stay calm I stay calm and I can persevere in that relationship so in this way our relationship with Krishna which we can say is our vertical relationship it strengthens our horizontal relationships with others and conversely our horizontal relationships with others can strengthen our vertical relationship because as I earlier said we all need we are all relational creatures and we need some connection the connection with Krishna is only pursued gradually because it requires a very evolved spiritual level of consciousness to be fully sustained emotionally only with our relationship with Krishna we do get some strength and sustenance but we do need other relationships also so if the horizontal relationship is based only on mutual gratification or basically self-gratification then that relationship leads to bondage but if that relationship is based on the purpose of serving Krishna then when one person feels down and other person encourages and we see the other person’s enthusiasm the other person’s eagerness we feel inspired to serve Krishna so then that leads when both people are committed to each other and are committed to Krishna then the relationship that is formed is a bonding that lifts both people upwards towards Krishna. Now if we have say a circle where there is one point in the centre this is slight variation of the example of Prabhupada gives if you put a stone in a pond then many concentric circles can be formed this is a slightly different variation of the same example let’s say if we have one centre point and then from there we have say five six seven marbles that are tied in different places now I can try to pull each marble up and okay it can be pulled up but if we pull the central point up then the whole structure gets pulled up so similarly now all of us can try to rise upwards individually but if we come together and we glorify Krishna we try to raise Krishna up it’s like raising the central point up then all the points that are there on that circle they all get raised up so in that way by trying to glorify Krishna by trying to have a relationship centred on service to Krishna then our relationship itself becomes sustained it becomes spiritual because it is centred on Krishna and becomes sustainable because we are not so much driven by our own mind and senses nor are we driven by the other person’s mind and senses which may make them react in particular ways we are focused on our service to Krishna and that mood of service brings stability in our relationship and then the relationship that is formed through this such an understanding that can actually help all of us through our relationships to move closer and closer in a steady and joyful way towards our supreme relationship with Krishna. So I’ll summarise what I spoke I spoke about how we can make our relationships spiritual and sustainable so I’ve talked about relationships in the mode of ignorance they are based on seeing only one aspect of a person and labelling that person based on that one aspect and this is a very fragmented vision which leads to labelling and it comes as the obstacle you don’t understand the person and the relationships can be ruined by labelling and labelling can be based on it can be based on race, religion, community or even ashram.
The important thing is we see the whole person and appreciate the whole person. In the mode of passion we see relationship basically as power games now you are separate I have separate you have your relation you have your nature I have my nature you want to control I want to control and we try to compete on who can control better and this keeps relationships in an antagonistic mode quite often. Relationship in the mode of goodness means that we see the essential spirituality of everyone and as we see we are all common so we all are living in a world in which something’s in our control something they’re not in our control.
When we come to the mode of pure goodness we see Krishna and we see Krishna’s controllership so we understand that whatever I have in I have control that I am meant to control in the mode of service to Krishna and whatever is not in my control that is in Krishna’s control and Krishna will bring good out of that so when we are interacting with others we don’t just see their actions we see that Krishna is sanctioning their actions some people we can serve joyfully because they are so likeable some people bring happiness where they go and some people bring happiness when they go they’re not at all likeable so in their situation also it may not feel inspired to serve them but still we can serve Krishna through them. So now because we all have our minds and senses sometimes these two kinds of people get rolled into one and the same person we like sometimes we don’t like sometimes so if we have that mood of service to Krishna then we can have stability. Today one of the greatest fear is the fear of rejection because when people form a relationship that relationship leads to their own self-identity and when there is some problem in the relationship we feel as if not just I am unloved but I am unloveable and the relationship in which we will never experience rejection is our relationship with Krishna.
So when we by our diligent practise of bhakti are rooted in the conviction that I am a servant of Krishna and all my relationships are services to Krishna then even if there is some turbulence in a particular relationship we don’t feel personally threatened. With the security of our relationship with Krishna we maturely negotiate whatever turbulence is there in that relationship. So our vertical relationship with Krishna brings stability to our horizontal relationships and our horizontal relationships if they are among devotees then they inspire each other to persevere in the vertical relationship.
So in bhakti we go beyond the dialectic of attachment and detachment to commitment. We are committed to our relationship with Krishna and committed to our other relationships in our relationship with Krishna. When we all come together to serve Krishna and to raise Krishna up to glorify Krishna like raise the central point in a circle up the whole circle gets raised up.
Like that the relationships form in the mood of service to Krishna they lead not to bondage but to bonding which fulfils the need of the human heart and helps us progress towards Krishna. So every relationship can help us grow in selflessness by coming out of our own small worlds, out of small minds and this journey of selflessness culminates in our selfless love for Krishna. So my prayers and best wishes are to Mayatma Prabhu and Ganeshwari Mataji.
Thank you very much. Thank you very much Prabhu for taking the trouble to come and see the wedding ceremony for the last 30 years. We hope we haven’t brought you down in any way.
Thank you for bringing us up on your words of wisdom. We pray that we can act on them. And I believe that you will be here with us for a week in Perth.