​What near death experiences mean for all of us

​Sunday feast lecture at ISKCON, Brampton, Toronto, Canada

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna. Thank all of you for coming here today evening.
I also thank the organizers for inviting me here and my apologies for arriving slightly late. So I’ll be speaking today on the topic of near-death experiences. We have a PowerPoint presentation here.
Are those behind also able to see it? Yes. So let’s start. So near-death experiences, what exactly are they? And how are they relevant for us as spiritual seekers? The fundamental questions, maybe you are able to see from there? Okay, fine.
So the fundamental question they raise is how can we be conscious when we are unconscious? How can we be conscious when we are unconscious? Now what does this mean? Basically near-death experiences raise this question because some people when they are close to death because of heart attack, because of accident, at that time physically they don’t be unconscious but they report some perceptions. They report, oh that I heard the doctor talking like this with this patient. I heard this person say this.
I saw this kept over here. I saw that kept over there. And they also describe going out of their body, rising above, seeing themselves from above and going somewhere far away, some other world where they supposedly meet deceased relatives or see some religious figures.
And all these raise the question if they are unconscious as their brain views clearly indicate then how are they conscious? So these are called near-death experiences because these experiences occur when people are near death. Now specifically the experiences within these which we will be discussing are called as OBDs, out of body experiences. So anybody who has an accident they can say in a generic sense they will be near death.
But somebody who has experience of consciousness while they are near death, that is scientifically called a near-death experience. Who are conscious? And within that, next slide please, we focus on the out of body perceptions. So people see themselves out of the body and they see themselves from out of the body.
Now within this also there are two categories. They have, we could say, other worldly perceptions and they have this worldly perceptions. So for example in America some people may say, oh I had a near-death experience in which I went and I saw Jesus and I talked with Jesus or I met my old grandmother.
Now these, they are very difficult, they cannot be verified. What is the way to verify them? Some people may believe them, some people may not believe them. And it’s just left to individual belief.
There is no possibility of scrutinizing them. But what can be scrutinized is if they claim to have seen something weird. The doctor said like this or the nurse did like this or they spoke like that.
Then that can be evaluated. Did it really happen? And could they have known it by any means? And then if they could not have known it by any normal means, how does it relate to us spiritually? Because the Bhagavad Gita tells us that we are not the body. We are the soul.
And the soul is different from the body. The soul can be conscious even when the body is not conscious. In fact the soul is the source of consciousness even when we are conscious right now.
So it is not the body that is speaking. Rather it is the soul who is using the body to speak. And the soul can actually see and act separate from the body.
So near-death experiences comprise an evidence for the reality of the soul. So we live in an age of science where people want to evaluate things scientifically. So near-death experiences are a strong scientific pointer towards the existence of the soul separate from the body.
So let’s move on. There are many astonishing near-death experiences. Actually I have a full book on the topic of reincarnation.
It is going to be soon published. But this is a full presentation which is almost one and a half to two hours. I will be focusing on some specific cases rather than the detailed cases which I have in the longer presentation.
So I will just focus on two specific examples. There is a whole book written by Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper. They are near-death researchers.
And this book is called Mindsight. That is the name of the book. Where they talk about people who were blind throughout their life.
They could never see. Just biologically they had no capacity to see. And yet during their near-death experiences they were able to see.
So one case was of this lady Vicky Umipeg. So what happened was that during birth because of some problem Vicky was born congenitally blind. And Vicky had two near-death experiences.
After a period of around 10 years with the intermission. And both those experiences Vicky saw himself from above the body. And actually that was the only time they saw.
Never else. Now if the eyes are damaged basically the optic nerve itself was damaged during birth. So there was no chance for this person to see.
How was someone able to see like that? That means the capacity to see comes from something beyond the brain. Something beyond the body itself. Another more astonishing example is of Pam Reynolds.
She was detected with having a giant bacillary artery aneurysm. That means at the bottom of her brain she had an aneurysm. And this meant that she was told that there is no way for you to survive.
Because it’s so deep at the bottom of the brain you can’t even do surgery. It’s very difficult. You can’t remove it.
But there was one doctor, Dr. Robert Spetzler. He had pioneered an operation called Operation Standstill. And by this operation she was told there is some chance of survival for you.
And why is it called Standstill? Standstill basically means everything in the body stops. So what happens? They induce an artificial cardiac attack by which the heart stops beating, the blood stops circulating. And then after the blood stops circulating they decrease the temperature of the body.
So that they can actually reach the brain safely. And they have… So all the blood flow to the brain stops. The brain waves become flat.
That means there is no possibility of consciousness. There is no activity in the brain at all. As can be seen from the electromagnetic waves.
So no blood supply is going to the brain. No activity to the brain. And then they lift up the brain.
So they drain out, not just they stop the blood supply to the brain, till the body and in the freezer, frozen atmosphere, they put all the blood out of the brain. And after all the blood supply has stopped, all the blood has been drained out, then what happens is the brain is lifted up. And then they reach at the bottom.
And in this case, if there is even the slightest consciousness, that can tremendously complicate the operation. So to ensure the patient stays unconscious throughout, they have like earphones, or not exactly earphones, earpieces, which produce sound. And that is sound like a tea kettle or a whistle.
This sound is loud, 90 to 100 decibels. And it is 11 to 13 clicks per second. So what is the reason for having this sound? That from the ears directly, one of the most sensitive parts of the brain is that which receives the sound.
So if there is even the slightest trace of consciousness, then that level of sound will cause discomfort. And if the person removes the sound, so that means this is an arrangement which is done to ensure that there is no level of consciousness at all. So the point is for this operation to be done, there has to be, the foundational necessity is that all consciousness has to be removed.
And all physical symptoms of consciousness being present, they are nullified. Now when all this was done to her, at that time, she had a near-death experience in which she reported seeing herself from above. And the first thing she saw, her head was shaved in a very peculiar way.
And then the next thing she saw that, she was told this is a brain surgery, but someone was operating near her thigh area. She said, what happened? She said, no. And then actually they had to give a cardiac arrest.
And for that they needed to have bypass. So they were taking a vein from there. And then she heard a female voice saying that, oh, the blood vessels are very small on this side.
She heard a male voice. Try on the other leg. And then, now she saw from above, another leg.
So something happening. And then she heard further details of the conversation. And then she saw herself drifting out of the body.
And after she came out of the, drifting out of the room and going elsewhere. And then when she came back to consciousness, she reported this conversation. That I heard this.
And doctor said, yes, this is what we spoke. So there was a cardiac surgeon also who was assisting in that procedure. And she was a female.
And the main doctor was Spetzler, who was a male. Now when Dr. Spetzler was asked, how is it possible? Because as I said, the precondition for this operation is that the patient has to be unconscious. So how do you explain it? So this was his reply.
So at that stage in the operation, this is, nobody can observe here in that state. And I find it inconceivable that your normal senses are just hearing, let alone the fact that she had clicking modules in each side, that there was any way to hear through normal auditory pathways. I don’t have an explanation for it.
I don’t know how it’s possible for it to happen considering the physiological state she was in. At the same time, I have seen so many things that I cannot explain. And I don’t want to be so adamant as to say, as to be able to say that there’s no way it can happen.
The evidence is there. We know it happened. But there’s no explanation within the scientific framework of seeing the person simply as a physiological device.
There’s no explanation. So now, she was asked, because all these earpieces were there, and they were constantly clicking in her ears. So normally if there’s a lot of noise, and some phone is ringing in the background, and through it you have to hear, it’s a distraction.
So she was asked, did she have a strain to hear? She said, no, I did not hear the clicking sound at all. She was hearing from non-physical pathways. So now, how does this exactly happen? Go ahead.
Dr. Sam Parnia is also another person who has done a lot of research in this field, and he says, can someone read this? What is clear is that something profound is happening. The mind, the thing, that is you. You are told, if you will carry on after conventional science says, it should have shifted into nothingness.
Dr. Sam Parnia. Yeah. So basically he says, something goes on.
We don’t know what it is. Next. So now, some people who are very scientifically minded, this is actually anomalous evidence.
Most of the time, when people’s brain is damaged, they are unconscious, and they don’t perceive anything. So this is where they’re perceiving, this is anomalous data. We shouldn’t take it so seriously.
That’s possible, but actually, most science advances at the fringes. That means, science has a current theory, which explains 90% of the data seen. But the 10% that it can’t explain, by trying to find out the explanation for that, science expands.
So at the start of the 20th century, Newtonian physics, which is called classical physics, was able to explain the observable world fairly well. And Kelvin, in fact, said that the biggest problem for physicists of the next century is unemployment. They will have nothing to do, because we have explained the full world now.
But then, there’s blackbody radiation, which is unexplained phenomena, and there was the movement of very distant celestial objects, which didn’t seem to follow Newtonian physics laws. And these two unexplained phenomena, when the explanations came for them, the whole map of physics changed. Now, for explaining blackbody radiation, they had the whole quantum physics developed.
And for explaining the motion of celestial objects, relativity physics developed. So science progresses, not by denying the evidence or downplaying the evidence that we can’t explain, but science progresses by looking for explanations for things which we are not currently able to explain. So, near the experiences, their unexplainability within the current scientific framework points us to the need for expanding the current understanding of the self.
Go ahead. So, for understanding the self, the Gita offers us a tripartite model, a three-level model. We are not just the body.
The Gita explains that there is a body, the mind, and the soul. Our existence is three-dimensional. The body is like the hardware, the mind is like the software, and the soul is like the user.
So, with this model, how can we explain near the experiences? Go ahead. Yeah. So, this is the way normal vision occurs.
So, here if you see, there is the outer world on the right side. And normally, how do people see? The eye, whatever visual data is there, it goes into the eye. From there, it goes to the optic nerve, to the brain.
From there, the subtle body is actually the mind. And then there is the soul. So, the soul is at the center.
Around it, one circle is the mind, or you could call it the subtle body. And there is the gross body, which is what we call as the body. So, then it goes into the… So, the mind has its own eye.
So, when we close our eyes, we can see… If we love someone, we can see their… We can see their picture, their image, in our mind’s eye. The mind… It’s not just… Mind’s eye is not just imagination. The mind also has the capacity for vision.
So, actually, the information goes from the eyes, through the brain, to the subtle eye, that is the mind’s eye. And then it goes to the soul. The soul perceives.
This is the way normal vision occurs. Let’s see what happens in near-death experiences. So, in near-death experiences, the soul has left.
So, you could imagine this to be the operating table, where the body is lying down. So, the body is there, the brain is there, the eye is there. But there’s no sight, because there’s no consciousness over there.
So, the body is dysfunctional, or body is unconscious, but the soul is out of the body. And the soul is out of the body, and the soul, when coupled with the mind, which has its subtle eye, the soul can see. And with this model, we can understand how the soul is able to see, even when the body is unconscious.
Or how the person is conscious, when the brain is unconscious. That simply means that the brain is not the source of consciousness. The brain is the channel for consciousness.
And sometimes, when the channel is not functioning, you can see by other ways. So, for example, to give an example for this, say, if somebody had a house, a big bungalow, where they have a security camera, so they have big premises, and there is a wall, and then they have their own house inside. And there is a security camera, which is there at the main gate, which is at the border wall.
And they are in their house. So, normally, when they want to see who is at the door, they will see through the security camera. But if the security camera is damaged, they may be able to go to the terrace and look out of the window also, and they can see who is there.
There is a normal way they might see through the security camera, but there is an alternative way also to see. So, like that, normally, the soul sees through the brain, sees through the brain, through the eye. Normally, that is what is required for seeing, but the soul does not need that.
And in exceptional situations, there can be an alternative way of seeing. So, go ahead. Now, just as in science, so, spirituality is actually a higher dimensional science.
Higher dimensional science means that it deals with higher dimensions of reality. Modern material science deals with material reality, whereas spirituality deals with or spiritual science deals with spiritual reality. But it is also a science.
In what sense? Just as science has two limbs, theory and experiment. Theory is a proposition. It may be like this, it may be like this.
So, Newton saw a fruit falling, and he said, maybe there is a force which attracts particles to each other. That is a theory. And then there is an experiment by which we confirm whether that theory is right or wrong.
Similarly, in spirituality, there is philosophy and there is religion. So, philosophy gives us the postulates. So, for example, the previous slide which I talked about, the Gita’s model of the self, three-level model of the self, that is a philosophical postulation that our existence is not just physical, it is physical, mental and spiritual.
So, now, how do we know whether philosophy is right or wrong? Anybody can propose any philosophy. But for verifying that, actually there is religion. Religion is not just a set of rituals that we do because it is a part of our culture or our tradition.
Some people may do like that. But the purpose of religious practices is actually to get experience of spiritual reality. So, for example, when we come to a temple, when we chant the holy names of God, at that time, we experience some non-material peace.
We experience a non-material joy. So, this is a pointer towards understanding that there is some aspect to my being which is beyond my body. This is Mohit.
Now, as far as the scriptures are concerned, there are descriptions of near-death experiences even in the scriptures. One of the most well-known is that of Ajamil. This is described in the 6th canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, the Bhagavata Mahapurana, where Ajamil is on the verge of death.
He has lived a very sinful life. And at that time, the messengers of death, the Yamadutas come. And Ajamil’s body, physical body is lying down close to death.
Yamadutas come and they drag the mind. They drag the subtle body. And because the soul is attached to the subtle body, the soul also goes with it.
And when this is happening, at that time, he hears. He just accidentally calls out the name of Narayan. He is not calling out Narayan to address the Supreme Lord Narayan.
He has his youngest son whose name is Narayan. And he is playing nearby. Narayan! He calls out.
Despair. And then as he is calling out Narayan, he starts out with the intention of calling his son. But while he is calling it out also, he remembers, oh, this is just a child.
The Yamadutas are going to come. What am I going to do? What is he going to do? So at that time, his thoughts just go to Supreme Lord Narayan. And because he calls Narayan, the Vishnudutas come over there.
And there is an elaborate philosophical conversation between the Vishnudutas and the Yamadutas. At that time, the Vishnudutas say that because he has chanted the name of Narayan, so he deserves a second chance. You should not punish him for this.
And then, then the Yamadutas go away. Defeated. In that conversation, confrontation.
And then Ajamila wants to express his gratitude to the Vishnudutas. And then suddenly, he wants to talk with them and they disappear. And he starts wondering, was this real or was this imagined? But he says, I was really near death and I could hear what they talked and what they talked made profound sense to me.
So therefore, I have been seen. And this is one parameter that happens many times with people with near death experiences. That near death experiences are profoundly transformational.
Those people who go through the experiences, they start realizing there is more to life than just material accumulation, material possession, material gratification. And that’s what Ajamila also gets that realization. That actually I have a spiritual side and I need to nourish that.
And thus he becomes completely transformed. So actually, if we consider from the broad perspective, all of life is a near death experience. Because we can die at any moment.
So we are all always near death. So if we extend the meaning of that word, right now we are sitting here, the roof may collapse. It’s possible.
It’s not probable. But it is possible. So, when we understand that we are near death, what does it imply? It doesn’t mean that we have to be constantly paranoid.
Oh, I may die any moment. I may die any moment. No, that’s not the point.
The point is, please go ahead, that we need to redefine progress and happiness. What does it mean? Usually, people think of progress simply in terms of, you know, how many gadgets we have, how many computers we have, how many airplanes we have, how many skyscrapers we have. Yes, that is one definition of progress.
But that is only material progress, where we have a material side and we have a spiritual side. And we need to have progress defined in a broader sense. So we need to give our spiritual side its due.
That means that if we are, in our daily life, we can observe that success in one area of life does not compensate for failure in another area of life. Say, for example, somebody is very successful professionally, but their family life is in shambles. Their spouse is about to divorce them.
Their children are into drugs. And they are thinking, what did I achieve after doing all this? So, instead of unidimensionally focusing just on getting professional success, if they balance their lives, give due time to their family, then, they may not achieve extraordinary success in one field, but they will have good success in both fields. So we have just as success in one field cannot compensate for failure in another field, just as success in professional field cannot compensate for failure in the material field, in the family front.
Similarly, success in material life cannot compensate for failure in spiritual life. We need to have a balanced understanding, a holistic understanding of progress and success. So, we need to give our spiritual side its due.
What does it mean to give our spiritual side its due? Just as the body needs nourishment, similarly, the soul also needs nourishment. And a soul’s nourishment comes from contact with God. sukhena brahma samsparsham atyantam sukham asnute 6.28 in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says that brahma samsparsham by contact with God sukhena, that is sukham.
There is happiness that comes by contact with God. What is that happiness? atyantam sukham asnute This is the ultimate happiness that we can get. Now, what do we mean by contact with God? Is it that we go in the temple and touch the deities? That is fine, if we touch the lotus feet of the deities, if we are allowed to or whatever the circumstances are, but that is not what is really contact with God.
Contact with Krishna happens through our consciousness. So, we are always conscious of something or the other. But quite often, whatever we are conscious of, that is what causes dissatisfaction, that is what causes agitation.
I am writing a book on anxiety and anxiety and spirituality. It is very intriguing that quite often people are anxious at the time when they think I will be happy. As long as they are working, they are busy.
But after their work is done and they are supposed to have leisure, by the time of leisure, the mind starts working. This may go wrong, that may go wrong, that may go wrong, that may go wrong. So, anxiety is the interest that we pay on loans that we have not yet taken.
So, usually we have a problem, some uncertainty is there, that is fine. But when we get anxious, we treat ourselves to a free horror movie displayed by the mind. A free horror movie displayed by the mind, but in this horror movie, we are not the spectator, we are the victim.
So, all the horrible things, this may go wrong, that may go wrong, that may go wrong, that may go wrong. You know, maybe I have some uncertainty, the economy is going down, maybe I lose my job. If I lose my job, then how will I pay my mortgage? If I don’t pay my mortgage, then where will I be? Oh no, I will be on the streets.
Right now, you are sitting comfortably in an AC room. I will be on the streets and I will become panicky. Well, none of those problems have come.
So, the mind, actually, when we are not spiritually nourished, when we don’t get spiritual happiness, then the mind goes on a hyper drive. The mind goes on a hyper drive and when it goes on a hyper drive, then it dissipates our energy. So, why I was talking about this is that anxiety, it attacks us not when we are busy doing things, it is when we are doing nothing or when we are sitting and relaxing, that’s the time when anxiety attacks us.
The time when we think, now I have done my work, now I will enjoy, that is the time. The leisure time is the time which the mind steals away for anxiety. And in that way, we end up suffering.
So, psychologists are talking about what they call as the anxiety epidemic. So many people all over the world are afflicted by anxiety. Anxiety can have many specific causes.
We all have different problems which we need to deal with and those problems will cause anxiety. But underlying it, there is a generic cause. And that generic cause of anxiety is lack of spirituality.
Actually, life will always be characterized by change. But suppose there is a boat in an ocean, the boat will move up and down because of the waves. Like that, in our life, there is sometimes health, there is sometimes sickness, sometimes our relationships are good, sometimes they are not so good, sometimes we do well at our work, sometimes we don’t do so well at our work.
These dualities will always be there. When these dualities come, at that time, we also get shaken. Like a boat getting shaken in the waves in the ocean.
But if that boat is anchored, then it will not be shaken so much. Similarly, if we are anchored to spiritual reality, if we are connected with Krishna through our consciousness being fixed on Him, then we will not be shaken so much. Instead of becoming agitated inordinately, we will be stabilized internally.
So, actually this is what meditation does. Meditation is not just about sitting in any particular posture. That can help if it helps us in concentrating.
But the essential point of meditation is to take the mind from the changing and fix it on the unchanging. The world is constantly changing. And if we just keep thinking of this and that and that and that, no, it causes anxiety.
But if we turn our mind towards Krishna and focus on Krishna, that brings serenity, that brings peace, that brings joy. And actually, when we say we should nourish our spiritual side, it simply means that we offer our consciousness a joyful object for contemplation, a joyful object for meditation. There are many people in this world who don’t have food, who don’t have water, who don’t have clothing.
It’s all tragic. At the same time, you know, we feel that, okay, lack of food is a misery. But there are so many people who have food.
Are they happy? No, they’re not happy. They have their own set of problems. There are so many people who don’t have potable water for drinking.
But all the people who have their water for drinking, are they happy? They’re not happy. So, the greatest need in life is not just food, water or other necessities of life. The greatest need is a satisfying object of thought.
If we have a satisfying object of thought, we will be peaceful wherever we are. We can be focused, we can be productive wherever we are. And the most satisfying object of thought is Krishna.
When we fix our thoughts on Krishna, when we train our consciousness to become Krishna conscious, then we experience peace and joy within. And when we experience peace and joy within, that decreases the inner friction. See, inner friction is caused by when I have anxiety, basically there’s friction.
I’m doing one thing, but my mind is gone somewhere else. What about this? What about that? Then that friction, because of that, the friction between what we are physically doing and what we are mentally doing, that causes distraction. We become absent-minded.
We make mistakes. Sometimes the same thing we have to do two, three times. The students may be studying, reading at a book.
They read a book for 15 minutes and then somebody comes and tells, you held the book upside down. They didn’t even realize it. Because so much distraction is there.
So, there’s a lot. We often think of our day and our schedule in terms of time. I feel, you know, I don’t have time for spirituality.
I would like to, but I don’t have time. But actually, we need to think of our schedule not just in terms of the time. We should think of our schedule in terms of thoughts.
Our schedule is, or rather, sorry, we should, our time is taken not just by our activities. It is also taken by our thoughts. If I have a disturbed mind, one thought is disturbing me, then it takes so much of my time without my accounting for it ever.
I sit in a class for studying something, but after one hour, there’s nothing that I have learnt. It’s wasting my time. So, if I could just calm my thoughts down, then I’ll be able to do something much more productive.
Like, suppose, suppose there’s somehow a dysfunctional TV. On say TV, there are 100 channels. And this dysfunctionality of the TV is not that the TV has stopped functioning.
But rather, you know, it is showing the video of one channel and giving the audio of another channel. And suppose it’s an educational program where a student wants to understand. Okay, maybe National Geographic or something like that.
You’re watching, you’re watching something, but the sound is something else only. It’ll be a waste of time. You’ll not be able to understand anything.
Okay, should I be watching or should I be hearing? There’s a disconnect between the two. So, like that, when there is inner friction, there’s disconnect. You’re doing something physically, the eyes are showing us one thing, but the mind is showing us something else.
So, like that, when there’s a disconnect, we can’t function. And what meditation does is, when we become connected with Krishna, it calms us down. It calms us down.
It minimizes our inner friction. And thus, it maximizes our outer contribution. We can actually function more effectively.
We can get more done in less time. Spirituality won’t take away our work time. It’ll take away our worry time.
All the time we spend on worry, you know, if I ask you, now, what is your worry time every day? 5 o’clock to 6 o’clock in the evening? No one will allocate time for worrying like that. But worry keeps taking our time in the background. It’s like, you know, somebody comes and, like a thief comes in our house and comes to steal the money.
Now, we’ll stop the thief. But, if that thief were, somebody were inside our house only and they’re taking small, small money on a daily basis, you would not even notice it. Maybe we have some, in America, you don’t have so many work assistants at home.
But if somebody, there’s somebody working at home and every day there’s a small, small money they’re taking. You won’t even notice it. So, worry is like this in-house time stealer.
You know, it’s inside us. And what it does is, it steals our time. And we can avoid substantially worrying by developing our faith in Krishna.
So, the spiritual side, when we see when we should develop, it doesn’t just mean chanting Hare Krishna. It doesn’t just mean coming to the temple. Yes, these are important things, but they have a purpose.
The purpose is, that they give us experience of spiritual reality. And that experience of spiritual reality, that calms us down, that purifies us and that helps us to focus more on whatever we are doing. I conclude with one point, that usually when we have a materialistic world view, we think of situations in two terms.
Either things are in control or things are out of control. If things are in control, I feel confident. If things are out of control, I feel worried.
But spirituality helps us understand that there is a third possibility. That things may not be in control, but things are not out of control. What does that mean? Things are not in my control, but they are in God’s control.
So, the things which are not in my control, if I worry about them, I will simply overwhelm myself with anxiety. In the same situation, say if there is a student who has got an exam tomorrow, or you have a job interview tomorrow, and if you have an interview, you can sit and think, what question will I get? What question will I get? What question will I get? And we can get overwhelmed by worry, paralyze ourselves. But what are we doing? What question we are going to get, that is not in our control.
So, in the same situation, if I obsess about that which is not in my control, that causes anxiety. But if I focus on that which is in my control, what is in my control? Okay, I have 24 hours, let me revise what I have prepared. Let me refine my understanding of what I know.
Then, if we focus on what we know, that brings intensity. So, the same situation can cause anxiety or can cause intensity. It just depends on what we focus on.
Focus on that which is not in our control, we get anxiety. Focus on that which is in our control, we get intensity. Now, we may tell ourselves, just focus on what you can do.
Don’t worry about that which is not in our control. But it’s difficult to not worry, because what will happen out there? But when we connect ourselves spiritually, we understand that God, Krishna is our well-wisher, and He wants the best for us. That which is not in my control, Krishna will take care.
If you become conscious of me, you will pass over all obstacles by my grace, Krishna says. So, we just focus on doing what we can and leave the rest to Krishna. And we’ll find out that He will make things work according to His plan, which will often turn out to be better than our plan.
So, that way, by spirituality, we can replace anxiety with intensity. Instead of thinking about things not in our control, we think about that which is in our control, and bring intensity. Whatever we are doing, in our devotional activities, in our professional activities, in our family activities, everything, by doing what we can and leaving what is not in our control to Krishna, we can bring intensity.
And thus, we can maximize our outer contribution in whatever we do. So, I’ll summarize, and then we can have some questions. So, I started by talking about near-death experiences, that they raise the question, how can somebody be conscious when they are biologically, physically not conscious? And people who are near, people who, because of a heart attack or accident, they are near death, they sometimes see themselves outside of the body and they experience things.
Those are called as near-death experiences. So, we focus not on people’s paranormal visions of some other world, because they are unverifiable. We focus on people’s perceptions in this world to check whether they could have acquired that knowledge by any other means.
And I discussed two cases of the mind sight or the people who had near-death experiences despite being blind. There’s just no way they could have known because they just didn’t have eyes to see. And second was Operation Sandstone of Pam Reynolds, where, you know, all possibility of consciousness was eliminated by the physical circumstance of our body.
There was a cardiac arrest, there was sub-zero freezing of the body, there was a draining of blood from the brain, the brain waves were brought to a flat, and there were ear pieces which were giving loud clicking sounds. And despite that, there was no sign of consciousness in the body. And even amidst all this, she observed the doctors talking with each other.
She observed the doctors doing something to her body. And this was just an incident that happened in her life at that time. Now, that specific conversation was, she could not have known it by any other means and yet she was able to see it.
So, how was it possible? We’ll discuss that. Science, if it holds that our consciousness comes from our body or our brain, then there’s no explanation for this. So, we need to expand our conception of the self.
And when science is not able to explain something, rather than trying to reject what it can’t explain as anomalous data, we focus on trying to expand the explanatory framework. That’s how science progresses. We discuss a lot of science progress from classical physics to Newtonian physics, sorry, from classical physics to relativistic physics and quantum physics.
Similarly, currently our conception of the self is that it’s physical. That’s what mainstream science conception is. So, we expand that conception.
The Bhagavad Gita explains that, the physical, mental and spiritual, there are three sides to our being. And with that framework, we discuss how the soul, which is the source of consciousness, can, soul and the mind, can leave the body. And the body is unconscious, the normal channel of vision may not work, but because the soul is the source of consciousness, the soul can see through an extraordinary channel of vision, that is directly through the mind’s eye.
This is a person, normally sees who the men get through a security camera. If the security camera doesn’t work, the person can see with one’s own eyes also. And then, what is the implication of near-death experiences, that we are different from the body, that there is a soul, and we need to nourish our spiritual side.
We discussed Yaman’s experience, and the point that, actually all of us are near-death, because death can come upon us at any moment. So, what does nourishing our spiritual side mean? It means, bringing the soul in contact with God. Sukheena Brahmasam Sparsham.
And what is the result of that? Now, when we are not connected spiritually, then we subject ourselves to unnecessary anxiety. Anxiety is the interest that we pay, on loans that we have not yet taken. So, it is the mind giving us a free horror movie scene, a vision.
So now, how do we avoid that? When we understand that I am spiritual, we focus on our spiritual identity, we don’t get so worked up about material ups and downs. Just like a boat that is anchored, it doesn’t move so much up and down. Just by understanding that I am spiritual and indestructible, our anxiety about worldly ups and downs can go down.
Secondly, by knowing that, that which is not in my control, is in Krishna’s control. And entrusting that control to him, and focusing on that which is in our control, we can actually not just get rid of anxiety, but the same situation which causes anxiety, we can transform that into intensity. So, by the practice of meditation, by connecting ourselves with Krishna, by chanting his holy names, we practice mantra meditation, we chant the Hare Krishna mantra.
By this, we come in contact with Krishna, and the inner friction that is there, our body is doing one thing, the mind is doing another thing, which dissipates our time and energy, that will be avoided, and the outer contribution maximized. So, spirituality won’t take away our work time, it will take away our worry time. So, the time that is consumed by thoughts, that time can be countered when we offer ourselves the supremely satisfying object of thought, that is Krishna.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments? What is the form of the soul? So, if I have a particular look, does my soul look like that? No, the soul is presently a spark of consciousness. It is described to be extremely small, present in the general vicinity of the earth.
It is extremely small. And the soul in the spiritual world has an original form, that is called the Swaroopa, the eternal form of the soul. That is not necessarily related with our present bodily form.
The present bodily form that we have is what we have acquired by the karma that we have done in our previous lives. So, this present bodily form is a tool for the soul to become spiritually aware. But there is no intrinsic connection between the soul and the body in terms of form.
The soul originally has a form. Right now, the soul is basically as a particle of consciousness, a spark of consciousness. It is very tiny, present in the region of the heart, from where it radiates consciousness outwards all throughout the body and from the body outwards.
Does it answer your question? Yeah. Does the soul radiate consciousness? Okay, yeah. Yeah.
Does the soul age or is it constant? Yes, the soul doesn’t age. That, अविकार्यो यमुच्छते In 2.25, the Bhagavad Gita says that अविकार्य, it does not undergo the changes that the body undergoes specifically. So, the soul is eternal, the soul is indestructible, the soul is unchangeable.
And, actually, our desire for stability, we all want something to be unchanging in our life. We want some security in our life. When the whole world around us is changing, where does our desire for continuity come from? Why do we want continuity? If we were simply the products of the world around us, if we are simply material products, then why would we have a desire for something that is just not present in the world? The only thing constant in the world is change.
That’s the only constant thing. So, आदिभूतं क्षरोभावः Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita in 8.3 that this material world is characterized by change. So, when everything is changing, why do we have a desire to have something unchanging in our life? That is because we, at our core, are unchanging.
We do not desire to grow old, or get deceased, or die, because the soul never gets old, gets deceased, or die. And we are projecting our identity onto the body. And that’s why whatever is natural to us as the soul, we are trying to get it at the level of the body.
But the body will grow old, get deceased, and die. Nobody can stop that. However, if we realize our spiritual identity, then we will realize how we are actually eternal, how we are inexhaustible, how we never grow old.
Does that answer your question? Yes, please. I have a question that, there is a productive time, and there is a worry time, and there is a void time. That means you have to do all nonsense.
How do you control that? I am not saying anything, but I don’t know. Void time. Void time.
Maybe you are off. You don’t know what to do. You tend to do some nonsense.
Exactly. So, what do we do? How do we deal with the void time when we don’t have anything to do? That’s the time when we tend to do nonsense. Yes, you know, in school we may have this assignment, fill in the blanks.
So, what happens is, as soon as we leave some blank in our schedule, the mind fills it in. So, if I have nothing to do, the mind finds something for me to do. And quite often, that something is destructive.
That something is damaging. So, I am busy doing something, then I am focused. But as soon as I stop, I don’t have anything to do, I find.
Now my mind starts thinking, why did this person speak like this? Why did they do like this? Next time when I meet, I am going to show this person. So, our mind goes into revenge fantasies quite often. So, what we need to do is, rather than leaving the blanks for the mind to fill.
See, the mind doesn’t fill in the blanks. Actually, the mind is so cunning that if it takes control, there is a blank, it will fill in the blank and after that it will overwrite the sentence. That means, say, I have 10 minutes right now, and after 10 minutes, I have to go in for a meeting.
But in that 10 minutes, I get so worked up about something, that I just forget the meeting and I go and I want to beat that person. I am going to do this, I am going to do that. So, if you just leave things with the mind, then it will make us miserable.
That’s why it is best to plan how we are going to use our leisure time also. Not that we have to fill our schedule to brimming. It is not that we have to overpack our schedule.
But rather, whenever I get spare time, what am I going to do? If I plan it out, say, if I am reading a particular book, I have the book in my phone, I carry the book with me, as soon as I get some time, I will read it. Also, we can find out for ourselves, each one of us is different, we can find out what is the activity in which we can constructively absorb ourselves. And we can do that activity, we can consciously strive to make that our default activity.
That means, say, if I like to hear kirtans, then I should always have some nice kirtans and I can be singing it, I can be reciting it, I can be learning new tunes, I can be moving onwards in that direction. As soon as I have some time, I can start hearing that. If I, as I said, if I like to read books, I can do that.
So, we have to find out what is the activity in which we can constructively absorb ourselves. And we should be like, not that, rather than being in a situation, now I have time, now what should I do? Okay, maybe I can, maybe I can read some book, maybe I can call my relatives, I have not called them for a long time. Maybe, maybe I can do some planning for my future work.
Or, maybe, you know, I did not sleep enough last night, maybe I can sleep. So, what happens is, if we leave things to the mind, the mind will choose the path of least resistance. And quite often, the path of least resistance is the path of unproductivity or even counter productivity.
We do not do anything or we harm ourselves. So, rather than letting ourselves be in a situation where we have time and then wonder, what will I do with this time? We can plan, this is the thing which I want to do in my life. Okay, I want to read this book, I want to, and keep that ready.
So, as soon as I get some time, I will immediately use it for that purpose. So, look at your own life and think of the things which you really look forward to doing. And not just in terms of going to some new place and seeing this, that will require some substantial amount of time.
But simply, as I said, like reading, or many devotees, they prefer hearing. You know, nowadays with technology, technology has its flip side, but technology also has benefits. You know, we can, if you like to hear philosophy, you can just have lectures of whichever speakers we like to hear, ready with us, you can just start hearing it.
So, we can have some targets in the things that we like to do. And then, as soon as we get some time, immediately we will do those things. So, we need definitely to plan our void time.
Otherwise, we will get into unnecessary anxiety, unnecessary negativity, unnecessary frustration. And having something to look forward to, that also brings energy in our life. It’s like, it’s good to treat time like money.
That means, you know, most often for all of us, you know, we have more, more things to purchase than the money with which you can afford it. So, we are thinking, as soon as I get some more money, I will purchase this. So, we are looking, where can I get more money? So, like that, we should always have more things to do than what we have time to do.
Now, this doesn’t have to be a burden. Oh, I have to do this, I have to do that. But we should be looking forward.
So, as soon as I get some time somewhere, immediately I use it for constructive purposes. Use it for doing that particular thing. Does it answer your question? Thank you.
My name is Krishna. I have a question regarding suicidal cases. Yeah.
And in suicidal cases, does the soul get pressure or something like a pressure from any of the body? How does it work? How does it co-relate? Yeah. So, in suicidal cases, does the soul get punishment for ending the body? Yeah. Actually, rather than using the word punishment, which seems very harsh, the important point is to recognize the underlying principle.
The principle is, say, you know, if somebody is working for a government, and the government has told them that you can stay in this quarters for three years, and after that you can get another quarters. Now, if after two and a half years, this person burns down the quarters, then, the government is not going to give them new quarters at that time. They’ll have to stay homeless till the time the next quarter is going to be allocated to them.
But this is not exactly punishment. The government is not out on a revenge agenda over here. It’s just that that may come because you have destroyed the house.
But the important thing is, you’ll be homeless because you have yourself destroyed your house. So, for the soul, the body is like a house. And, by our past karma, by our previous life’s karma, this bodily house is allotted to us for a particular period.
And, if we destroy this house before that period gets over, then, then, we do not get another house. That means, we do not get another body. And that state of existing in a disembodied state, that is actually what we call as ghosts.
Actually, I have a whole seminar on ghosts. So, exactly what happens in a ghost is, that, you, can you go back to that slide? You’ve switched it off, everything? Okay, no problem. So, you remember that there’s a body over here and there’s a soul, soul and the mind around it.
So, that picture. Now, when a person, so, when, now, in the case of near-death experiences, the soul and the mind come out for a short while. And then, they enter back into the body.
At the time of death, the soul and the mind come out and they go into another body, which is what we call as transmigration. That is what happens at the end of our life. 2.22 in the Gita, Krishna says that, just as we give up old dresses and take new dresses, like that, the soul takes a new body when the old body is deteriorated.
So, now, when we, when somebody commits suicide, the soul comes out of the body because the body is damaged now. But the soul is not yet allocated a new body. So, the soul and the mind, they exist in a distance disembodied condition.
And that disembodied condition is called as a ghost. So, ghost means, they are also people like us, but they do not have physical bodies like us. And, that state is actually a state of misery.
People, when they hear about ghosts, they often become scared. You know, suppose some house is a real estate house, there is somebody in a real estate agency, and somehow a house gets a reputation that it is haunted, then its prices often plummet down. People don’t know.
It happened to Rajesh Khanna’s home. Even now, it is not getting sold. Oh, okay.
So, what happens is that people are very afraid of ghosts. And, actually, ghosts are not necessarily terrible people. They are actually miserable people.
Why? Because all of us have desires. And, imagine you have a party at your house. But, just the day before the party, you get a severe stomach upset.
So, everybody is having a feast and you have to eat soup. It’s miserable. Because the body is not functioning properly.
So, like that, this is the lifelong condition of ghosts. Now, ghosts, they have desires to enjoy, but they just don’t have the body to enjoy. A ghost sees a gulab jamun, I want to eat a gulab jamun, but I have no tongue, I have no stomach, where will I put the gulab jamun, what will I do with it? So, they are miserable that way.
So, in some cases, when the ghosts are very miserable like that, because they cannot fulfil their desires, sometimes they try to come and possess some people. That means, they try to enter into somebody else’s body, take control of that body and then they try to fulfil their desires through that body. So, now, usually after that period gets over, then they get a next body.
So, that is the state when they have to stay in a disembodied existence. And in a disembodied existence, they may sometimes, they are themselves miserable and they sometimes cause misery to others also. So, usually, if we practice bhakti and if we pray for them, if we do some bhakti practices specifically for somebody who has committed suicide, then that karmic complication can be cut down and they can get freed from that body.
But usually, somebody who ends their body by suicide, they have to stay in a disembodied existence for the duration for which they were meant to live in that body. And then after that they get the next body. Does it answer the question? Okay.
So, is there any punishment for suicide? Yeah, again, we could say at one level the law of karma involves punishment. But it’s not exactly punishment. It’s simply reaction.
If I hit my head against the wall, the wall is not punishing me. It’s simply that there is a reaction to what I have done. So, like that, when we destroy the body, actually, the body is not something which we have created.
It is a gift given to us by God. And when we destroy it, there are some reactions to that. But generally, when a person is suffering, a person becomes suicidal, the thought that you will be punished for suicide, that is not really the best way to deter them from that.
If somebody is coming and says, it’s a sin, don’t do that. No, rather than we have to be understanding, give them a sensitive ear, and help them feel valued, cared. Actually, the biggest reason for suicide is often a materialistic conception of life.
Because at a material level, if things go wrong, and if I have nothing except material understanding of life, then I think what is the point of living? But if you have a spiritual understanding of life, then we understand that no matter how many things go wrong in my life, Krishna still loves me, Krishna still cares for me, and turning to Krishna and relating with Krishna, I can actually find peace and joy even now. And that way, we need to, so it is true that there is a reaction to destroying one’s body, but the healthy way to approach life is not just to be avoiding things because there are bad reactions to that. The healthy way to approach life is to make constructive choices because there is so much enrichment, there is so much benefit available through that.
So when somebody becomes very depressed and is becoming suicidal, if they can connect with Krishna, then they experience the spiritual joy that comes along by connection with Krishna, then they can acquire a new meaning and purpose for their life. Does that answer your question? Yeah. Question here? Yes, go on.
Yeah, in context to the same question, there are certain days happens because of accident. Those are also like you said that the death was bound to happen that way for that person. Similarly, in suicidal case, you said that maybe that person was because he does sin to die in that way, right? So how does it differentiate between those two? The suicidal is considered as you are killing your body before it was supposed to be.
Okay, I understand this question. So sometimes this death that happens because of accident and that may also be premature. A person may die young and somebody commits suicide.
So what is the difference? See, in any situation, there are certain things which are in our control, certain things which are not in our control. So those things which are not in control, they are destiny. What is in our control, that is not destiny.
That means when, before the Kurukshetra war took place, at that time, Vidura was telling Dhritarashtra again and again, stop your San-Duryodhana from antagonizing the Pandavas. Otherwise, the resulting war will destroy the whole Kuru dynasty. So at that time, Dhritarashtra tries to rationalize by saying, if it is the will of almighty destiny that the war takes place, who am I, a tiny mortal, to stop the will of almighty destiny? And Vidura cuts through this rationalization and he says something which all of us can remember.
He says, destiny determines the consequences of our actions, not our actions themselves. Destiny determines the consequences of our actions, not our actions themselves. Destiny will determine after I prepare for an exam, after I prepare for an interview, whether I get the job or not.
But destiny doesn’t determine whether I prepare for the interview or not. If I don’t prepare for the exam, if I don’t prepare for the interview and I don’t do well, that is not destiny, that is irresponsibility. So, whenever there is an accident, there are factors beyond our control, beyond that person’s control, which cause the accidental death.
So, that which is beyond our control, that is attributable to destiny. But suicide, in suicide, the circumstances which are causing depression, which are causing frustration, may be beyond one’s control. But a specific act of ending one’s life, that cannot be attributed to destiny.
That is what one has done by one’s own free will. So, our circumstances can explain our emotions, but our circumstances don’t justify our actions. Our circumstances can explain our emotions, you know, because of this I am depressed, because of this I am like this.
But still, you know, we are not slaves of our circumstances. We can choose to act differently. So, they don’t justify our actions.
So, even if somebody has very depressing circumstances, it is their act, it is their choice to end their lives. And because of that choice, they are, that kind of death is different from accidental death. Does that answer the question? Does that mean that there are millions of suicidal cases, so the soul doesn’t find another body for all of them at that time? Yeah.
So, if there are millions of suicidal cases, does that mean that all those souls don’t find bodies? Yes. For whatever duration it is, that they have not, for that they were meant to live in that body, during that period they will have to stay in the same body in existence. And there are quite a lot of people who have reported some paranormal sightings.
Sightings means there is one devotee scientist Dr. Michael Cremo, Luthakarma Prabhu. He has written a book about paranormal phenomena based on extensive research. So, he has described that there are many people who have actually done research in this field.
And the study of the eerie, as they call it, this whole, there is a book published by Reader’s Digest also about this whole field. So, basically there are three kinds of, there is sometimes there is, there are possessions, there are visitations and there are communications. Visitations means somebody sees some vague figure, oh it’s my relative, or somebody is in a room, there is nobody in the room and suddenly the door opens.
You might see this in horror movies. So, there are people who have, this is called visitation, somebody just comes along. Communication means it’s through planchets.
So, you go to a medium and ask the medium, I want to communicate with that relative and then that person enters into that medium or communicates to that medium and conveys. Now, not all of this is real. Much of it is actually fictional.
Third is possession. Possession means, there is one, many stories about possessions also. There was one lady in Nagpur, born in Maharashtra, lived throughout Maharashtra and just once she fell down, she fell unconscious, when she came back to consciousness she started speaking Bengali and she started speaking Bengali in a different tone also and she was in a rural place so there were no Bengalis there.
She had not figured out. For three and a half months she was like that. Afterwards, she came back to normal, started speaking Marathi.
She didn’t even remember what happened. Where was I for the three and a half months? Basically, there are well documented incidents of this. So, yes, those who are disembodied, they will have to, those who end their life in suicide, they will have to stay in a disembodied state for some time.
Yes, we can have your question. Okay, what is the explanation for Dejavu? Dejavu is basically the feeling that when I go somewhere, I have been here before. This is quite a common feeling.
Now, there are multiple explanations for it. First is that it could be that we have been in a similar situation in the previous life and there are some faint recollections of that in this life that we have. Other could be that we have seen something in our dreams and some people, for some time, sometimes our dreams can foretell us something about the future.
So we may not exactly remember what was there in the dream at that time but when we come in a particular situation we feel, I was here before. That is the second possibility. Third possibility is that actually the soul itself is accompanied by God.
In the heart there is a soul and there is a super soul. Super soul is the Paramatma and the super soul may sometimes give us certain sensations, certain perceptions, certain insights by which we question the normal materialistic conception of life. Because if from the material perspective if I have never been in this place and I am sure I have never been in this place, why should I feel that I am here? So certain experiences we all get sometimes in our life which make us question the normal material conception of life.
And Deja Vu can be one experience like that. Thank you. Yes? For example somebody who was at a young age so this person is young because of some disease then does the soul come back to complete the unfinished work which they have there? Yes, the soul is on the multilayered life journey and we all have certain desires, certain aspirations, certain things which we want to do in our life and those desires need to be worked out and if you have not worked out those desires then we have to come back again.
Now that applies not just to people who die young, it applies even to people who have lived their full lives and they die in old age because even though it’s not necessary that just because somebody has grown old that means their desires become exhausted and that they may continue future life. So the soul is basically on a multilayered journey and as long as we desire worldly things, material things in this world then we have to come back to this world to come back to this world. So we get our future life based on the good or bad we have done in this life.
So if somebody dies young and they haven’t done any good or bad what destination will they get? Suicidal cases also. First of all we can see karma like a big water tank. So it’s not just what we have done in this life.
The soul’s existence in the material world is anadi. Anadi means it’s almost like beginningless. So we have the karma.
Right now we are in a particular situation that is not just by what we have done in this life. It is also by what we have done in the previous life. So if we consider a water tank, water is coming in from one side and water is going out from the other side.
And this has been going on for a long time. So a lot of water is stored in the water tank already. So like that in our karmic tank, the actions that we are doing right now, whatever we do, we are doing some good or bad.
Even if a person lives for 10, 15, 20 years, they do some good and some bad. Children may not do so much karma because they are just acting according to, they have limited influence and they act largely according to the parents’ guidance. But as we grow up, we also act.
So our actions, good or bad, they are adding to the karmic tank, like water flowing inside. And conversely, whatever we undergo in our life, sometimes we get disease, sometimes we get financial challenges, sometimes we get relational challenges, all these are the karma coming out to us. Just talking about negative karma, like the positive karma can also be there.
That is like the water flowing out. So when we leave our body, this particular body at the time of death for whatever cause, there is still much water that is there in the karmic tank. And based on that water that is there in the karmic tank, we get a particular body.
Now, if somebody commits suicide, then that means that this act of destroying the body, it also adds some karma to that tank, because it is not our body to destroy. And what destination one will get, that will depend on the sum total of the karma that they have done. So that particular act of suicide, that will also bring some reaction, but overall what they have done in this life as well as in earlier lives, some of it has got exhausted now, but much of it is still remaining.
So this what we are doing, what we do, that is called Agami Karma, what I am doing right now. What is coming back to me, that is called Prarabdha Karma. And what is the storage tank, that is called Sanchit Karma.
The accumulative karma is still there and that determines our next body. So when we become purified, that means we practice Bhakti, then basically this whole Sanchit Karma, accumulative Karma, it gets, by the practice of Bhakti, it becomes removed. And when this karmic tank becomes exhausted, empty, then we become liberated and we attain eternal life at that time.
So, thank you very much. Shri Prabhupada Ki! Thank you so much Prabhupada for sharing all these