When does ambition become greed? Wellington, New Zealand

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. My dear Lord, please guide us all so that we can direct our desires towards you in a way that is harmonious with your plan for us. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna.

Thank you for coming today morning and today we will be discussing based on the Bhagavad Gita but broadly on the basis of Vedic wisdom that when does desire or ambition become greed? All of us naturally want to grow in life and to want to grow is basically a natural human aspiration in whichever area we are in. So if you see the Bhagavad Gita is spoken, the Pandavas are fighting a war, at one level it is to gain a kingdom. That's not the only level of reality but there is one level of reality.

So when does ambition become greed and how does all this fit in the world of devotion? So as devotees we understand we should not be greedy but should we be ambitious or not ambitious? Now we will connect this with two broad concepts. So basically devotion, greed and ambition. All these are more internal to the person.

Do I have devotion? Do I have ambition? Do I have greed? So it's internal to the person. And then if we consider an individual is internal to us is all this. Then beyond us we could say there is, let's put it here, beyond us there is destiny.

We all have destiny. Let me interpret it in another way but let me complete this point. And then from the internal to the external is our endeavor.

So how do all these interface with each other? That means at when we seek something in life. So let's put it another way over here to make it clearer. These are three factors we are going to discuss today that if this is the journey of life then in my journey of life there is some endeavor I do to go somewhere.

Now that endeavor comes because of something inside me. Let us call it desire. Now I am using the word desire as a neutral describer.

It can even be desire for Krishna. And then in the journey of our life above us there is we could say the cloud of destiny. So destiny is like a cloud which keeps showering water.

Now sometimes that water is what we need. That means destiny is working positively for us. And sometimes it is water that we don't need.

So it disrupts our life. Ambrish Mahant was just telling me that there was a big flood recently. Now we need water.

The water too much is a problem, too little is also a problem. So destiny in that sense when it showers down it can be positive. I am using green for positive.

It can also be negative. So when we go through the journey of life. So the question is when we seek something.

So somebody you say all of you, almost everyone here right now is Indian. Now from India you came abroad. Maybe you came to New Zealand directly.

Maybe you were Bahunam, Kantrinam before you came to New Zealand. Whichever way you are here now. And one reason you came here was because you had some ambitions.

And now here you have come across Krishna Consciousness which is extremely fortunate. So we all have certain ambitions in our life. Now after we try to practice Bhakti we understand that I want to focus on my spiritual life.

So how much should we focus on our ambitions also. Somebody may say okay I have this job and I want to retire and practice Bhakti in future. But if I continue with this job I will have to work for 20 years.

Then shift to some other job. Maybe I can earn enough in 10 years and I can retire after that. But if I shift to that job I might get more money but it might also lead to more uncertainty.

So should I do that or should I not do that? Just now actually two days ago only one devotee from India was telling me. He said that I am thinking of going to the Middle East. Because he said that he is in India and getting visa to Middle East is little easier.

He said I can earn faster and then I can come back and retire. I said Middle East is right now in the middle of a war so not now. So you can think about it later.

But he is saying that no question is not from practical perspective. It is philosophical perspective that if we consider destiny is fixed then is making some change in our life. If we are going to earn a certain amount of money then is changing our life really worth it? Going to a job which will give you more money.

If it is destined to come it will come to us anyway. So should I be doing it or not? But there are many devotees who do do that. And he was giving an example of a devotee who went to UK.

He earned some money and now he is retired. And he is settling in Vrindavan and doing some services over there. So now the point is that this whole thing sometimes philosophically it can be a big mess.

You know that this is also true. That is also true. And then what should I be doing in our life? And sometimes we say destiny does not apply to devotees.

And then if something does not work out we say it must have been destiny. So all this can become very complicated. So we will try to analyze.

So as devotees should we have ambition and when does ambition become greed when it becomes undesirable? So this session I will talk about three main concepts. Of course I have already introduced what I am going to talk about. But in terms of terms I will talk about three terms over here.

That is Artha, Anartha and Paramartha. Artha, Anartha and Paramartha. So let us try to look at each of these words one by one.

Now what does Artha mean? Artha ka Artha kya hai? Artha ka Artha Artha hai. So one meaning of Artha is simply meaning. Iska Artha kya hai? But what are the other meanings of Artha? Money.

Artha is also money. Now for some people money is the meaning of their life. So in that sense the two Artha come together.

Any other meaning of Artha? Purpose. So purpose or we can say value also that Purush Artha the word is used. The four purposes of life.

Which are the four Purush Arthas? Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha. So it is interesting within the Artha there is Artha. Within the Purush Artha there is Artha.

So now Artha we can say broadly we can say money meaning it is value. So Artha has many different meanings and Artha if we consider value or any of these meanings we take. It is basically seen in a positive way.

All these meanings are positive. Now money excessive can become greed but money is important for living. So the word Artha generally has a positive connotation.

Now what about the word Anartha? Does it have a positive connotation? No. It clearly has a negative connotation. So now what does Anartha mean? Not required.

So we could say unwanted, Anartha or literally what would it mean? Artha, Anartha. That which is meaningless. Unwanted, meaningless, unimportant.

Now the Anartha basically it has a negative connotation. We will come to that and explore that a little bit more. So now what is Parmartha? Have you heard the word Parmartha? Parmartha.

What would it mean literally? Ultimate value. So Param is supreme. So supreme value.

So supreme value, absolute value. So Parmartha would be ultimately Krishna. Krishna or depending on one's conception it could be Moksha.

It could be Bhakti or Bhakti leading to Prema. Bhakti at its higher stage. So Artha, Anartha and Parmartha.

Broadly these are three concepts. So if we consider ambition, ambition we are talking about three different words. Now devotion, we will talk about ambition, greed and devotion.

So now devotion is clearly Parmartha. Greed is clearly Anartha. Now ambition, is it Artha or is it Anartha? It is depends you can say.

Now Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita says that I am ability in human beings. He says, paurusham yushu. And he also says, dharma aviruddho bhuteshu kamosmi bharatashyama.

So he says I am kama, I am the desire that is not contrary to dharma. So let's try to, these three concepts we have understood now. So we could say that in the journey of our life, if we consider Artha is positively said.

So let's put it together now. That in the journey of our life, we could say we seek Artha. We want to avoid Anartha.

And ultimately we want to reach Parmartha. So we want to ultimately reach Krishna. That is the Parmartha.

Now while going towards Krishna, we may need Artha of different kinds. If we have a home, we need money. We may need a safe society, safe locality to live in.

We need a community, we need our children to be well educated. All these are Artha. Now even for serving Krishna in this world, we need Artha.

So in one sense, we could say if we go to the Bhakti principle of Anukulyase Sankalpa Pratikulyase Varjana. So Artha can be Anukul, Anartha is Pratikul. And ultimately Krishna is not just Anukul, not just Pratikul, he is cool.

He is the ultimate reality that we seek. He is what we want ultimately. So with this, we have talked about Artha, Anartha.

I am not talking about destiny over here. So Artha is something to be sought. Artha broadly means value.

So let's now look at this framework of Dharma, Artha and Kama. We will come to Moksha later. So now these can be at one level seen as parts of the Karmakanda way of life.

That you do some religious activities and then you get some wealth and then you fulfill your desires. And that's one way of looking at it. So these three can be seen from a Karmakanda perspective.

And that is something which is not necessarily compatible with Bhakti. But these can also be seen as universal principles of living. Dharma, Artha and Kama.

What do I mean by in this context Dharma, Artha and Kama? So all of you are studying Bhakti Shastra, some of you are studying Bhakti Vaibhav also. So all of you are basically familiar with the philosophy. Nobody very new today.

So because this what I am going to speak will require a certain level of background. If it is not clear, you can always ask questions there. So the idea is Dharma leads to Artha.

Through Artha, Kama, we go to Kama. Now a simple level the meaning is you do some puja, then you get some people do Lakshmi puja, you get Lakshmi by that and then we fulfill our desires. That's one level of understanding it.

Now Dharma, the word in the Bhagavad Gita, in our Shastra itself has different meanings. One is it can mean religion. But the word Dharma has another meaning.

If we consider in the Bhagavad Gita, the word Dharma comes in two distinct places. There is 2.7 and 4.8. 2.7 is Arjuna is asking, I want to know what is Dharma. And in this case he is asking what is the right thing for me to do? Should I fight? Should I not fight? But he is asking not just simply what is the right thing to do.

And he is not asking, He wants to understand the principle of Dharma. So this is one level. Then another Krishna says is, 4.8 is, I come to establish Dharma in the world.

So this is a very different understanding of Dharma. See, if you ask what is my Dharma? That is, what is my duty? What should I do? But when somebody says I will come to establish Dharma. What does that mean? Now if you look at the context what Krishna is saying is, I will establish social order.

I will establish order in society. So if there are wicked people who are ruling, I will, And then I will establish, So I will establish Dharma by which the good people can be taken care of, can be protected, can be at least relieved from suffering. So the word Dharma is in one sense associated with belonging.

So 2.7 is talking about Dharma of the individual for the collective. And 4.8 is talking about the Dharma of the collective for the individual. So there are many kinds of Dharma.

We could have Dharma for our parents. We could have Dharma towards our children. We could have Dharma towards our country.

We could have ultimately Dharma to Krishna. But the word Dharma, I am talking here in a universal principle of being. The idea is that each one of us belongs to a larger collective.

And when we belong to that collective, there is a harmonious way of belonging to the collective and there is a disharmonious way of belonging to the collective. So now when the harmonious way of belonging is there, say for example, right now you have come for a class. Now there is an individual Dharma over here.

So you pay attention. You turn off your phone or keep your phone in silent. You don't chit chat with each other.

That is the individual's duty towards the collective. But it is not just one way. The collective also has a duty towards the individual.

So if I say you do your Dharma and pay attention, but if I don't speak something worth paying attention to, then that will be Dharma Seglami. So Dharma is reciprocal. When the individual does the Dharma to collective and the collective does the Dharma to the individual, then that leads to Artha.

Artha means some value generation. So if you pay attention and I speak something worth paying attention to, then at the end of the class, you feel okay, I learned something of value. I'll also feel that okay, I did something valuable over here.

So this applies everywhere. If we are driving on a road, then we are participating in the road transport system. That is the collective.

So the individual Dharma in that case is we follow the traffic rules. We stick in our lane. We stop when the traffic lights are red.

So now that is our Dharma to the collective. But in the collective also has a Dharma. That is that the police should not be pulling over people unfairly.

Like if you belong to this particular race, I'll pull you over more. If you belong to this particular race, even if you do wrong, I'll let you go. There should not be discrimination like that.

So the Dharma Seglami can happen in both ways. When the individual does not contribute to the collective and the collective does not contribute to the individual. But when both do, then what happens? Arthakas.

So for example, if you consider a child and a parent. Because the parent represents the collective and the child is the individual. So the child needs to obey the parents.

That is the individual Dharma to the collective. But then the parents should also be not just instructing the child, educating the child, equipping the child and helping the child grow up so that the child can stand on their own feet. So now in any place where there is the either imbalance is there.

It creates problems. So if we pay taxes to the government, that is our Dharma. But if after taxes are being paid, the government is not providing any facilities.

There are lots of taxes and there is lawlessness and the roads are broken and utilities are not coming. Most people, why should I keep paying taxes? So the idea is Dharma leads to Artha. So in the Vedic context, Artha does not just exist in isolation.

Artha is a product of Dharma. And now there can be different Dharmas and it can lead to different Arthas. But Dharma leads to Artha.

So for example, if we consider the western world, we may say there is Adharma. And that is true from one perspective. So if we consider that relatively speaking, the family structure is much more intact in the eastern world.

So generally people have a sense of duty. When a couple get married, they have a sense of responsibility and duty, a sense of Dharma is there. When they have children, there is a sense of responsibility towards the children.

And then that Dharma leads to Artha. Now economists call this social capital. That you belong to a community and there are bonds with the community.

And then that's why people don't feel lonely. Loneliness is always there, but not to that degree. So when Dharma is followed, it leads to Artha.

So now, if a couple, they get divorced over small things, or they don't take care of their children, or they don't care for children only. Normally, traditionally, if a couple would not have a child, it would be considered a state of slightly unfortunate. Now in the western world, there are many couples, especially women, they say we are child-free.

They won't say I am child-less, child-free. So now, that is unfortunate, isn't it? In much of the western world, in India there is a problem of population increasing too much. In the western world, population is actually decreasing.

So what is happening is, one kind of Dharma is lacking over here. But then, if we could have another kind of Dharma, we could see in terms of following the rules. If there are certain rules, if there is any, you have to rush into, get into a train, people actually form a queue.

So in terms of, we could say, social order, family structure, they may not be in Dharma, but in terms of following the rules, there is relatively Dharma is there. And then that leads to Artha. The Artha in that sense is what? That there is relative peace, there is less law and order disturbance, there is relatively less corruption.

It might be there, a different level. So Dharma is not the monopoly of any country. Dharma is a principle of living.

And to the extent there is Dharma, it will lead to Artha. So if in a company, the bosses, the leaders make good plans, have some strategies, they are doing their, the collective is doing the duty to the individual. And the employees, they do their work properly, they come on time, they do their job competently, then that company will be profitable.

So Dharma leads to Artha. It's a universal principle. Now, why are we talking about this in terms of ambition? We are talking about devotion and ambition and greed.

So now we all belong to many different larger wholes. So we belong to a family, we belong to a community, we belong to a country, we belong to say a species, humanity. And ultimately we belong to Krishna.

So through each of the larger wholes that we are a part of, we have a sense of Dharma over there. We are a part of a family, we have a duty to the family. If we have, we belong to a community, we belong to a country, we have a duty there.

So now among all these, we ultimately belong to Krishna. Now Krishna is not just the largest whole. Krishna is also the whole that sustains all other wholes.

It is because of Krishna that the family exists. It is because of Krishna that the country exists. It is because of Krishna that the community exists.

What do I mean by because of Krishna the family exists? When a mother offers her breast milk to a child, it is the mother's love for the child. But it is also Krishna's love for that child coming through the mother. The mother does not do anything special to manufacture milk in her breast at that time.

A country may provide good facilities for its citizens. But the country needs to have some natural resources. Without that, it will not be able to provide anything.

Now if you consider the Middle East, it was desert till they discovered black gold over there. Now Singapore does not produce many things but it has a very strategic location. So through geography, some gift is given.

Now that gift has to be organized properly, that gift has to be utilized properly. Venezuela was the world's largest oil producer. But because of economic mismanagement, people were in poverty.

In spite of having, they have more oil than Iran, more oil than Saudi Arabia, more oil than everywhere else. So natural resources might be abandoned. So Krishna's gifts are there.

But beyond Krishna's gifts, we humans have to utilize Krishna's gifts properly. So Krishna sustains all the goals. So Krishna sustains the parents.

But then the parents also have to take care of the children. So it means, what I am trying to say over here is that a properly informed vision sees the immediate circle we are belonging to and learns to belong properly to it. We are grateful to that.

But at the same time, we also understand that there is the ultimate reality, Krishna. And I belong to Krishna also. So the ideal situation is where through our belonging to a particular circle, we belong productively to, say, our family.

That means we take care, serve our family members. And our family members are also there to take care of us, to support us. So through this dharma, what happens? Artha comes.

Now the harmonious situation is where our dharma also helps us to do our paradharma. Our paradharma is that our dharma to Krishna. It is bhakti.

In the Bhagavatam it says Vasudeva Paradharma, Vasudeva Paramahamsa. That means our family is also practicing bhakti. And then when we take care of our family, we do aarti together, we go to satsang together, we go to yatra together.

So we come closer to each other and we come closer to Krishna. So our dharma helps us also to do paradharma. And then by that, we also attain paramartha.

So we use our artha for paramartha. When we have money, we use our money to have a beautiful altar in our home. We use our money to invite devotees for prasad at a place.

We use money to support devotional causes. So artha helps us in paramartha. Prabhupada met his spiritual master.

In which year did he meet? Anyone remembers? 1922. 1922 he met for the first time. And initially there was a bit of a debate.

But once Prabhupada was convinced by Bhakti Sahaja Thakur, he shares his thoughts. He says that if I had not been married, I would have joined my spiritual master's mission immediately. But he said now I was married, I had a family, I had a child.

It would have been unfair to them. So Prabhupada did not neglect that dharma. But then his thought was, now that I am a grahastha, he got consulted from an astrologer and the astrologer said that you may become one of the wealthiest persons in India.

So Prabhupada thought that let me work very hard to build my business. And through that, I will support my spiritual master's mission. Now Krishna had some other plan.

But Prabhupada tried that. So he tried that very hard. I am also trying something very hard right now.

Forget it. This is India. So here we have Kolkata.

Here we have Mumbai. And here somewhere we have Prayag. What is special about these three places? Kolkata is Prabhupada's birth place.

Mumbai is Pragya, Pragya is like Bali. We met at Burma. No, he started his pharmacy.

Yeah. Mumbai is where he started his… He got the ticket. Okay.

Actually that is true. Mumbai is where he got his A. But the point is that Prabhupada had business in all these three places. So Prabhupada worked for some time in Mumbai also.

So here in Prayag pharmacy was eventually what he had. So now I have a friend who is done his, who is interested in history. I was not interested but he has done his PhD in history.

So he told me that he specializes in pre-independence history. He said at that time people would not relocate so much. If they were in the government, the government would transfer them, they would relocate.

But then if they would relocate, they would have quarters, they would have steady jobs. But business people would not relocate so much. Because at that time travel was not so easy.

The trains, the Indian trains at those time was like twins in the mother's womb. It was very cramped. Not even twins, you could have triplets in the mother's womb or something like that.

So it was not easy to travel. You might have seen some pictures of people on the top of the trains also sometimes. So it was not very comfortable traveling in trains.

And there was no other way. Planes were non-existent practically. So the thing is that for Prabhupada to relocate to all these places and to start a separate business at each place, it was quite an effort.

And Prabhupada did that still. Why? Because he wanted to serve Krishna. And things did work out in Mumbai, then he went to Delhi, then he went to Kolkata, to Mumbai and then to Prayag.

He tried various places and he was traveling. Most of the time Prabhupada read his Shastra during his travels. He had a busy Grahastha life and he had his business, he had many children.

So the time he got was in his travels. That's where he read Shastra. But the point is that Prabhupada did work to try to, once he was in the Grahastha ashram, to try to serve his spiritual master, to take care of his family responsibilities, to earn Artha, he endeavored.

So eventually at a particular time he realized this is not how things are working out. And we'll come to that. But the point is the best situation is where Artha, we do our Dharma, it leads to Artha.

And that Artha helps us to move towards Paramartha. That Artha helps us to serve Krishna. So we are talking about two concepts, Artha and Paramartha.

Now let's try to understand Anartha. Now Anartha, we can understand it in a slightly different way over here. That when Hrishyam Maharaj becomes a king, this is when, just before the Rajsu Yajna, when they have developed Khandavprastha into Indraprastha, at that time Narad Muni comes to meet him.

And then Narad Muni tells him or asks him for his well-being. And he tells him that don't pursue Dharma at the cost of Artha and Kama. Don't pursue Artha at the cost of Dharma and Kama.

And don't pursue Kama at the cost of Dharma and Artha. Now here the word Dharmartha means slightly different things. So it can be a little confusing.

But let's consider three broad parts over here. See we have our home. We have our office.

And we have our temple. We have our spirituality. So now each of these, broadly our office is the place where we, if we take Artha in terms of money or resources, that's where we get our Artha.

Now home is the place for Kama. In the sense that that is where our desires are fulfilled. Now temple is the place for Dharma.

Now I am using the word Dharma in a slightly different sense over here. So if you want let's avoid using Dharma, Artha, Kama. But broadly he says there are these three dimensions to our life.

He says there is profit, pleasure and merit or religious merit or Karma. Good Karma going to them. So what he says is that don't pursue any of these at the cost of all the others.

So that means when we are functioning, we don't want to become so caught in our work that we neglect everything else. So that's where people become workaholics. And recently I came to know actually workaholic is a glorification to this world.

He is such a workaholic that it is considered glorification is alarming actually. That means work is everything for that person. Now that is unhealthy.

That person may be professionally successful but they will relationally be a failure. Their family breaks apart or they have no relationship at all. And that doesn't really ultimately satisfy the heart.

We want to work but we also want to share. We want success in our work. But after that we want to share the success with the people whom we love.

And those whom we work with, they are our colleagues. But we need a family. So what happens is if we go too much in the direction of workaholism, that's also not healthy.

If somebody cares only for the family and nothing else, that's also not healthy. See there is each person has varna and ashram. So now varna basically refers to the work that we do according to our varna.

Ashram is basically the home, the family where we are getting ashram. So every person needs varna and ashram both together. Now to what degree it may vary.

In different phases it may be different. But varna and ashram both are required for everyone. So nowadays for example with feminism become very aggressive.

Why? For women marriage is a trap. Motherhood is a trap. Just pursue your career.

Well yes, but the problem with that is that even men when they pursue their career, what is the point of pursuing a career? It is so that you have a family and take care of the family. So yes it has happened that say because of some social structures, women were restricted only to ashram and there was no scope for their varna. But going to the other extreme and having only varna and no ashram, that is a recipe for loneliness.

That is also not going to work. Now we also don't want to practice our bhakti at the cost of our home and our family. I was at one place and I was visiting that place.

It was passing by one day transit. So I knew that the leader over there was a bit of a hardline person. So I didn't want to visit but he invited me many times so I came.

And then I was in the, I came to the temple and he had come to pick me up and there was another devotee with me. He was introducing me. This devotee is so sincere.

He said his wife refused to become a devotee so he divorced her. Now isn't that first of something to glorify? Look at that. The Prabhupada did not divorce his wife.

It was not that she was not a devotee. She was a pious person. She was not a missionary.

They had their home duties and she was ready to worship them but the idea of being a missionary and preaching was not there. Now Prabhupada never recommended breaking of families. If somebody is not married, they can become a runachari.

After completing their duties, they can become a sanyasi or whatever. You can dedicate yourself more. But the breaking of family, the rejecting of dharma should not be glorified.

So the idea is that if we are a part of a family, we need to be doing our part in the family. If we are a part of a company, we need to be doing our part in the company. If we don't, that is dharma siglani.

So from this perspective, what does, we are trying to explore, what does anartha mean? We generally talk about anartha as lust, anger, greed, envy, pride. That's true. But let's try to understand this from a more philosophical perspective.

That artha and anartha, sometimes we may think of them as opposite. And that is true, but that is not the only truth. That for us, if there is any artha, and if the artha itself becomes the parmartha, that means something is of value, but that becomes the supreme value.

When artha becomes parmartha, that leads to anartha. So for example, money is artha. We all need money.

But when money becomes parmartha, it leads to greed. Isn't it? That when money becomes the most important thing, then that person starts becoming disruptive and destructive. So in seeking money, that person starts maybe neglecting their family, they start, you know, they are suspecting everyone, everybody after my money only.

What is that saying? Where there is a will, where there is a will, there are many willing relatives. Where there is a will, there are many willing relatives. Suddenly if money is involved, everybody comes, oh I like you so much, I have been here for doing this.

So people may not care for anyone because there is no money involved or they have money involved somewhere else, they just go away. So artha, when it becomes, when money becomes the parmartha, that leads to anartha. Now we all need pleasure in life.

Nobody can live without pleasure. But when pleasure becomes the parmartha, it leads to addiction. That people can get addicted to anything.

Now we want entertainment. Krishnaswami Yukta Haravi Harasi. But some people, they just, entertainment is not a break from life.

Life is a break from entertainment. They think entertainment is a bigger thing. And then their entertainment infatuation breaks their life sometimes.

So that is an addiction. So any artha, when it is taken too far, it becomes anartha. So now going back to this earlier point, so if a person starts seeking, then the person becomes a workaholic.

So what is happening over here is, here the work and the money that they are getting, the money here is becoming greed over here. How? Because they will say, I am working. I am working so hard.

I am the best employee in the company. That's good. But what is happening? In trying to do one dharma, one is neglecting and rejecting all other dharmas.

Because we don't just belong to one unit. We belong to many units. Say if a kid goes to school or college, now all children, they want to be a part of some social group in the college.

They want to be accepted over there. They want to be respected over there. But if now they have grown up in a home where they are being taught, don't take alcohol, don't do drugs, don't smoke, and it's good for their own future.

But then in order to belong to a particular group in college, what happens is, they say, come on, grow up, enjoy life some day. You will be a baby. And they succumb to that peer pressure and they drink.

Now, to have friends is good. But in order to belong to a particular group of friends, what is happening is, one is doing something unhealthy. That is going to displease their parents, that is going to hurt their parents, that is going to harm them in future.

A student may get addicted to the pleasure and they may not even be able to study. So the idea is that when one activity becomes excessive at the cost of all other activities, that is anartha. Now this can apply to everything.

We all need some level of control in our life. So if we are, can you empty this? And I want hot water in this. So, A, now suppose, let's say, I am giving this class right now.

Now I need a certain level of control so that everybody can hear attentively. Now if the control is not there, I was in America in one city and there was one child who was just running in the class. And nobody was doing anything.

And then I looked at the organizer, the organizer shrugged his shoulders. Then the kid came and he was looking at what I am writing. Then I was looking at him and he took away my pen.

Then he gave it back to me and started running around with me. The whole class went on. So then afterwards, I asked the organizer, why did he stop that? They told me, actually he was about three and a half, four year old child and his mother was sitting behind.

So then they told me that this was a western outreach program and it was in a rough neighborhood. So they told me that that woman, she had come for the first time and she was the girlfriend of the local gang leader. So nobody wanted to class her anyway.

So now, if we consider control, now control too little or too much? If there is too little control, then nothing can happen properly. But if there is too much control, then if say, if control is not there and in a class somebody's baby is crying, I yell at the mother. I yell at the baby.

And then afterward, no matter how good a class I give, at the end of the class, the only thing people remember is how I yelled at the mother. So when control becomes excessive, that leads to anger. So control is artha.

But that artha when it becomes paramartha, that means I forget everything else, you have to listen to me. I forget everything else at that time. So artha becomes anartha when it becomes excessive.

Similarly, we all need respect in life. But when respect becomes excessive, it becomes ego. So the idea is, what we are talking about is that when does ambition become greed? That was the starting point.

It's quite a philosophical long cut way of coming to that now. But I'll bring it back to the conclusion. The thing is that we belong to many larger collectives.

Of course, we ultimately belong to Krishna. Now, functionally, ultimately, Krishna is the whole of our life. Functionally, Krishna is one part of our life.

We have a family, we have a job and we have a Krishna bhakti also. So the way we function is that whichever larger whole we are belonging to, we belong harmoniously to that whole. So in the Bhagavad Gita, in the Upanishad, it says, So prayasa is over endeavor.

Now, when does it become over endeavor? So if we consider, Arjuna tried to learn archery. And one of the names of Arjuna is Gudakesha. And Gudakesha, it means one who had conquered sleep.

Now, one way from the bhakti perspective is that he was so absorbed in Krishna that he went beyond Tamoguna and conquered sleep. From the Mahabharata narrative story perspective, it is that when Arjuna learned archery in the daytime and he practiced it at night, he realized that I can shoot arrows even at night without seeing, just based on sound. And that was one reason he became so excellent.

So now was Arjuna's endeavor over endeavor? No. Why? Because that artha was being used for parmartha. The archery that he learned, he used in Krishna's service.

So his archery, he was devoted to his archery, but that never became a distraction from his devotion to Krishna. He pursued his archery, but he pursued it without, for the purpose of enhancing his service to Krishna. So the idea is that if we are pursuing a particular career or we have a particular ambition in a particular area of life, so should we pursue that ambition? The ambition itself is not the problem.

If the ambition is drawing us or dragging us away from Krishna, that means, again going back to these three circles, if I am here and say if this is my Krishna bhakti and this is my office, so now when this starts taking me away from Krishna. So if somebody says that, okay, next, if I work for next five years, I can save more in the future. Okay, what does working more mean? Oh, I have to go away from the devotee association.

Okay, where are you going to go? Do you have some spiritual connection over there? Do you have some spiritual opportunities over there? So if somebody says, I have to take an 18-hour job and I'll have no time to chant, no time for satsang, then that will be, that will be prayas, that will be Shravidam Bhakti Nashadam. It will destroy our devotion. So while belonging to a particular hole, we can seek to grow within that hole, but not at the cost of being dragged out of the other connectives.

So that's why for a devotee, if we have ambitions, rather than thinking, should a devotee have ambition or not have ambition, we should focus on, is this ambition going to take me away from Krishna or is pursuing this ambition going to consume me so much that it leaves me no time or bandwidth for Krishna consciousness. If that is not happening, then the ambition is not a problem. Now, we can have ambitions for serving Krishna.

We can have ambition to build a big temple for Krishna. We can have ambition for sharing Krishna's message, organizing big festivals. That's wonderful.

That's we could call it directly more spiritual or devotional ambitions. But in other areas of our life, the idea is that Artha should inspire us towards Paramartha, not take us away from Paramartha. Now, the last point I'll talk about is destiny over here, that destiny is both fixed and not fixed.

What do I mean? Destiny is fixed in the sense that the past karma that we have done that has not been processed. That means normally we do karma and we get the result of the karma. But sometimes we do a karma, we don't get the result of the karma.

That is unprocessed karma. That is called as Sanchit Karma. So, that Sanchit Karma that we have, that's our destiny, that is fixed.

So, it's like say, if we move from one country to another country. Now, before we were in the one country, in the previous country that we were in, we earned some money, we had some savings, maybe we took some loans and we have some debts. So, whatever we had done in the previous country, that financial account is fixed.

It may be positive, it may be negative, it may be both. Like I have savings in some places, but I also have loans in some places. So, karma is like that bank account balance or bank account from the past.

So, destiny in that sense is fixed. Whatever karmic balance we have from our past lives, that is fixed. At the same time, the unfolding of destiny, how destiny manifests in our life, in this life, that is not fixed.

What does that mean? That the unfolding or the manifesting of destiny is not fixed. That, so, if I am here and I am going through the journey of my life, so, what is in the karma cloud, that is fixed. But when that karma cloud will rain, that is not necessarily fixed.

What do I mean by that is not necessarily fixed? We say, okay, it is already there and it is going to come. Yeah, that is true. And it is there, if we have something negative, that is going to come in our life.

Say, for example, there may be three or four bad things that are going to happen in our life. Maybe we are going to get some terrible disease. Maybe we are going to lose a loved one.

Maybe there is going to be a big financial loss. Maybe somebody, maybe we are going to be caught in some natural calamity or a war or some disaster. Something like that.

So, basically there are four big problems that are going to come in our life. Now, one way is that, that these four problems come in our life over a gap of 10-10 years. And the other is all these four problems come at the same time.

Now, which will be more difficult to deal with? Obviously. So, the same time we get a diagnosis that we have a big disease, at the same time we come to the stock market and crash and we lost all our money. That would be unbearable, isn't it? So, the thing is that, say, somebody does, acts responsibly in this life.

Say, somebody is polite and kind and friendly and helpful. Now, still somebody might betray them. And that will be especially painful.

I was so nice and still this person betrayed me. You see, what is the use of being nice and polite? But what will happen is that if they are generally being nice and polite and helpful, that person may still betray them. And that is by their past karma.

But other people will help them at that time. Now, you are a good person and what that person did was terrible. So, the present good behavior that we did, that is also going to create some karma, which is going to give good results to us.

Now, on the other hand, if somebody is very rude and exploitative and manipulative, and then somebody betrays them. Now, that betrayal may have come because of past karma. But when that happens, nobody will be there to help them at that time.

You are always so rude and exploitative and manipulative. Why should I help you at that time? So, in that sense, our present actions, even if they don't change our destiny, they can change how the destiny unfolds. Say, if somebody is meant to be robbed, that may happen anywhere.

But if somebody is careless, then they will be robbed even more. So, now that they were robbed, what may be past karma? So, say, somebody drives recklessly and they meet with an accident. Now, was that past karma or present karma? Sometimes some people may drive recklessly and get away with it.

Sometimes some people may drive safely and still have an accident. Both are possible. But if somebody was driving recklessly and they met with an accident, certainly their present karma played a significant part in it.

Isn't it? So, what happens in our life is also shaped by our present karma. And that's why, rather than worrying about what is in my destiny, we need to focus on how can I best belong to the larger whole that I am a part of. Say, if we have children, now we can say, are those children destined to become devotees or not become devotees? Are those children destined to become good human beings or are they going to become irresponsible? If they are going to become what they are destined, then why should we try to parent them at all? We don't say like that.

Why? Because our dharma is there and we need to do it. Sometimes, despite our best dharma, sometimes the children may not turn out to be very good. Sometimes it happens that, one devotee was telling me, he was born in America, he said that, I grew up with, both my parents were drug addicts.

So, he said, I grew up not because of my parents, I grew up in spite of my parents. Now, that's a terrible situation to be in. But my point is that present karma also matters.

So, my past karma, somebody may have had very bad parents, but by their present karma, they made good choices and they became a responsible person. So, life is a complex combination of past karma and present karma. So, rather than making our decisions based on worrying, what is my past karma? We need to focus on, what is the best way I can do my present karma? So, what is the responsible way I can plan? See, we may say that, happiness and distress are fixed by our destiny.

And that is true, but that is not the complete understanding. Why? Because, Krishna says, if we indulge in sensual activities, we create suffering for ourselves. So, if somebody becomes an alcoholic, was that destiny? No, nobody is born with a bottle of alcohol when they come out of their mother's womb.

So, that alcoholism was a self-created problem from karma in this life. So, if we can increase our misery in life, then we can also increase our happiness in life. We are not talking about the happiness coming from our past karma.

We are talking about the happiness created by our present karma. See, our Shastras say that the number of breaths we take is fixed. It's one statement in scripture.

But from that same tradition, there is a branch of knowledge called Ayurveda. And the very meaning of the word Ayurveda is the Veda that increases Ayu. The knowledge to increase one's life span.

Now, how do you increase one's life span if our life span is fixed? The fact is that we don't know what is our life span. But there are certain practices that can improve our health. And certain practices that can harm our health.

So, doing the practices that improve our health, that is our Dharma. And we need to do that. So, the overall focus for us is that when we are making decisions, we don't worry too much about destiny.

We focus on how can I best do my duty. And sometimes it means staying in the same place and sticking to the same thing. Sometimes it means shifting courses and trying something else.

That's okay. But when we try something else, that trying should not be so excessive that it pulls us out of our other Dharmas. Say, our endeavor to earn money should not be so excessive that it neglects that we neglect our Bhakti because of that.

Or we neglect our family because of that. Now, children, when they are small, their parents, especially their mothers, but parents need to give a lot of attention. But then as the children grow up, they also need to get space.

And the parents are constantly hovering over their children as they grow up. And the children will not grow as fully functional individuals. So, there is a time when the parents need to step up.

And the parents need to step back. That's also a part of growing. So, Dharma varies.

A parent will always be a parent. But how much the role of the parent will require attention, that will vary. Similarly, we will be professionals.

Now, as professionals, how much attention will be required in a particular area of life at a particular time? That depends on Deshe Kaal Patra. You know, time, place and candidate. So, rather than focusing on, I am repeating the same point from a different perspective, rather than worrying whether something is in my destiny or not, we focus on whether this is Anukul or this is Pratikul.

So, if somebody feels this job is taking so much of my time and energy, better let me take some other job where I can earn more, maybe I earn faster and then I will retire. Is that decision Anukul to my Bhakti? If it is Anukul, take that decision. If it is Pratikul, we don't take that decision.

So, if somebody seeks more financial stability, maybe if somebody is in a high crime locality and they decide, you know, I can practice Bhakti over here or I want to move to a safer locality. But that means I have to earn more money, I have to save more money. Now, that is Dharma, we have to take care of ourselves, take care of our family.

So, that is not unhealthy. Now, when does ambition become greed? Dharma, aviruddho bhuteshu kamasmi. When the kama, when the craving, when the desire goes against Dharma.

So, when our longing or craving in a particular area disrupts the other areas of our life. So, that's why if we understand that I have many roles in my life and I may choose to focus on one particular role at a particular time. But not at the cost of completely abandoning other roles.

Then we will be able to find the balance. So, this is the last part, the last point I want to make now. That in general, it's helpful to have an approach of a range.

What is the range you mean? That in every role in our life, there is an aspirational level. And then there is a non-negotiable level. So, in many places in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna talks about a range approach.

For example, 12.8 to 12, he talks about, just be completely absorbed in me. If you can't, then try to fix your mind on me. If you can't fix your mind on me, then work for me.

If you can't work for me, then work for some higher cause. So, it's a range approach. So, for example, range approach means that the aspirational level is that, okay, now AI is coming.

So, I want to learn AI. I want to upskill myself and I want to excel in my work. That's the aspirational level.

And it's good to have that. But sometimes there may be a family emergency. There may be a wedding.

There may be a pregnancy. We need to pay attention to that. Sometimes in the temple, there is some special festival.

There is some special occasion over there. Some special point of satsang is there. We are going for a yatra.

So then, at that time, we want to focus on that. So, what happens is, if we cannot be at the aspirational level in a particular area, we don't have to have a 1-0 approach. If I can't do this, I just give it up completely.

Now, we have a range. So, from an aspirational level, this is where I would like to be. But this is where, this is the basic minimum I need to do.

The non-negotiable. So, we cannot be at the aspirational level in all areas at the same time. We will suffocate ourselves.

If I want to be at the very best in my work, do maximum work in office, pay maximum attention to my family, and do maximum seva in the temple, at the same time, then we will break our system. So then, okay, if this is the time and there is a big project deadline, I focus on my work. But that doesn't mean I neglect my bhakti completely.

That doesn't mean I neglect my family completely. So, we have a non-negotiable level. So, if we decide to pursue our ambitions, a particular ambition, that means, we are going in the direction of the aspirational level in that time zone, in that area.

But what is a non-negotiable level for us? We need to decide that. And make sure that we stick to the non-negotiable. Now, the last point is, with the non-negotiable level, if we only stick to the non-negotiable level, after some time, the mind will make the non-negotiable negotiable.

If we are doing the basic minimum only, the mind will think, okay, little less, what is the problem? And little less, what is the problem? And it will keep going down. So, in general, the challenge in life is that, that our family and our home, in many ways, these are obligatory for us. We have to do this.

If we don't do our job, we will be fired. The temple is not obligatory for us. If we don't do seva, devotees will be displeased.

But we are all volunteers. Devotees cannot fire us. One temple manager was telling me, the problem with working with devotees is that we can't fire them, they fire us.

So, now, Krishna is the most important thing in our life ultimately. But immediately speaking, Krishna doesn't seem to be that important. And that's why when we start pursuing ambitions, and we start getting our bhakti to the non-negotiable level, then what happens? From the non-negotiable, the non-negotiable becomes negotiable.

And Krishna from the first priority becomes the second priority, third priority, fourth priority, tenth priority, hundredth priority, becomes the ten millionth priority. Krishna is there, but where is he here? Somewhere he is at the bottom of the heap. So, we don't want that to happen.

So, as devotees, if we pursue any particular area in our life, we pursue it in a way that is adhukun to our bhakti, that does not take us away from our bhakti. So, to summarize, this was a bit of a complicated class, so summary will be a little complicated. So, can devotion and ambition go together? So, I talked about a lot of concepts, but there was a structure over here.

So, the question we started with was that the first part was about how, when we want to practice bhakti, that when we pursue ambition, there are two broad concerns that might come up for us. One is, is everything destined? Then why should I pursue it? And the second is, is ambition likely to harm my devotion? There are two main concerns for a devotee when we are trying to pursue ambitions. So, in that connection, I talked about three things.

We talked about Artha, Parmartha and Anartha. And discussed the relationship between the three, that Artha is value. Now, Anartha is, we could say that it is valueless, but we discussed a little later about how when Artha becomes Parmartha, that leads to Anartha.

We discussed many examples of this. That with anything which is of value, that becomes the supreme value, it leads to Anartha. So, why are we discussing this over here? So, ambition or money is Artha.

Devotion, bhakti is Parmartha. And greed is Anartha. So, then we discussed about how this is related.

So, I talked about the concept of Dharma and how Dharma leads to Artha. Here the meaning is slightly different. That belonging, harmonious belonging leads to production of value.

We belong to a collective, we do something for the collective, the collective does something for us. You come for a class, you pay attention, the speaker speaks something worth paying attention to. So, Dharma leads to Artha.

So, we need Arthas in various areas of our life. So, we all belong to many collectives. We have a family, we are a part of a profession, we are in a company, we are in a community, we are in a country.

And ultimately, we belong to Krishna. So, Krishna is the Parmartha. So, the ideal situation is that Artha is used for Parmartha.

Artha leads us to Parmartha. So, whatever we do, we do it ultimately for Krishna. And understand that whatever is given to me is ultimately given by Krishna to me.

So, the harmony is where Artha takes us to Parmartha. Or we use Artha to go towards Parmartha. And this is what we discussed Prabhupada was trying in his life.

And the last part I discussed was how Anartha can happen, how imbalance can come. That is, we discussed how Yudhishthira was told by Narada Muni that there are three parts of our life and all three need to be balanced. So, we have our home, where our karma is fulfilled, we have office where we get Artha and we have temple where we have a pursue of Dharma, we ultimately get spirituality.

So, now what we don't want is pursue any of these at the cost of all others. So, the test when our ambition is going too far away is that when our ambition is causing us to neglect our belonging, our roles in other areas of life. So, now when we are belonging, so Anartha means if you want to avoid Anartha, if you want to have balance, the way to have balance is that we have an approach of a range.

And I may decide to pay more attention to a particular area where I may be at aspirational level. But there is a non-negotiable which always I need to manage. If I don't manage the non-negotiable level, then I will end up, if I don't stick to non-negotiable level, then I will just completely neglect that area.

If I only stick to non-negotiable level also, gradually I will make that negotiable. So, we need to move higher in all areas of life, but sometimes we focus on one particular area. And we discussed about destiny, that destiny is both fixed and not fixed.

Fixed in the sense that in terms of what is the balance that is fixed. But the unfolding of destiny, when what will manifest is not fixed. So, I may be robbed, that may be in my destiny.

But if I forget to lock my house, then the robber will come and rob me of everything. If I forget to lock my house, if I forget to close my locker, if I forget to put my safety deposit, robber might have come and robbed something, but if my present karma is bad, then I may lose everything because of that. So, if my present karma is good, I may still be betrayed by someone, but other people will help me in that.

So, that's why the unfolding of destiny is not fixed. And that's why our, when we make decisions, when we focus on making decisions, the focus need not be on destiny. Okay, is this destined or not? The focus can be on what is favorable, favorable for bhakti.

So, if we feel that particular growth in a particular area of life is favorable for my bhakti, we can prioritize that, but not at the expense of neglecting our bhakti completely, neglecting other areas of our life completely. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.

So, are you sufficiently confused? Yes, sir. Thank you. Very in-depth analysis and information.

What if, where there's something in terms of making a decision where you're not sure if it's going to be favorable for bhakti because it will depend on the result, which of course is not always in our control. Yeah. So, if we can't be sure if it's favorable to our bhakti because we can't control the result, that's actually true everywhere in life.

We can't be sure about the result in any area of life. But there is a reasonable inference or plan we can make based on our past experience. And there is a realistic plan.

Say, if somebody has a small community, even from a devotional ambition perspective, if there is a small community and they need a temple, they want to have a temple. Now, the community has, say, they can build up to say up to 1 million, 2 million dollar temple. And they say, we will build a temple which is 18 million.

Say, no, have faith in Krishna. Krishna will provide everything. Yes, have faith in Krishna, but Krishna has given intelligence.

Isn't it? Say, faith in Krishna doesn't mean rejection of intelligence. Now, Prabhupada, they talk about doing very ambitious things. But Prabhupada is very grounded also.

See, when Prabhupada started the temples in Vrindavan and Mayapur, he knew that there would be no funds locally coming because we were a small temple at that time. People do not give donations to us. We were new over there.

So, Prabhupada built guest houses over there so that we would have some steady revenue flow over there. So, in the abode of Krishna itself, Prabhupada has made a plan for serving Krishna. He said, let's depend on Krishna.

That was not his goal. Now, Prabhupada did talk about extraordinary things. He said that, he used the phrase, shoot the rhino.

Now, the idea was that nowadays the rhino is an endangered species. So, you don't shoot it. And that's why Prabhupada's disciples have written a book called Chasing the Rhinos.

Now, that really doesn't work because rhinos don't run very fast. You have to chase them. But the point is that the rhino is, rhinos are very difficult to shoot down.

So, if somebody goes to hunt a rhino, if they don't succeed, people say, okay, what's the big deal. It's very difficult. If they succeed, everybody is astonished.

So, Prabhupada did use that example. But he used it for one-time programs. Even Prabhupada was doing a cross-Maidan festival.

He said, do this festival so that we will have 80, 100,000 people coming for this. And at that time, they were not having 100 people coming for the programs. 100,000 people, where are they going to come from? But Prabhupada said, try it.

And they created a sensation. Actually, that many people came for the program. But that's a one-time event.

If it doesn't, if it works out, great. If it doesn't work out, that's okay. But for a long-term project, Prabhupada did not have that kind of approach.

So, be grounded. So, that means, in no area of life can be guaranteed success. Whether in spiritual life or in our day-to-day life.

But based on what our experience is, based on what our intelligence is. So, we can reasonably say that if somebody is working in India and they move abroad, they can earn more. That's a reasonable expectation.

How much can you earn more? What kind of job will you get? How much will you be able to save? Nobody can control that. So, I would say, it's a reasonable, we use our God-given intelligence to make a reasonable estimate. And that's how all planning works.

See, our planning is our way of using our intelligence in Krishna's service. Or rather, offering our intelligence in Krishna's service. Our planning is not our controlling the future, even if it is for Krishna's sake.

We can't control the future. So, when we make a plan, it's the idea that if I take something seriously, then I plan it. If we have some guests coming to our home, and the guest is very important for us, then we plan, okay, what will you cook for them? Now, if a guest comes to our home and he says, okay, let me see what is in my fridge, I'll cook something based on that.

Well, that's also, we are offering some hospitality, but if we knew the guest was coming beforehand, then we would plan something. You know, yesterday I was telling about this devotee, some of you were there yesterday, talking about this Prabhupada disciple who is a comedian. So, he was, we were in the temple, and one devotee, they invited me to their home, and they invited him also, him and me, their home.

So, he suddenly turned to me. He said, Chaitanya Chahal, if you are on death sentence, and you had one last meal, what would you eat? I said, what kind of question is that? So, he said, I find this question the easiest way to get the answer, what is your favorite food? So, now the thing is, that if you are inviting somebody, then if we plan, the plan shows our seriousness. So, how do we plan? Based on our intelligence.

So, I think planning can be done in a mood of service, not a mood of control. Krishna would like to serve you more in the future, and that's why I am planning to do this. Some plans work out, some don't work out.

That depends. Prabhupada himself tried so many things in Krishna's service, not everything worked out. But many things worked out spectacularly.

Thank you. Yes. Hi Krishna, thank you for the class.

I just had a question about that third one. So, you said we have to balance the three. Is there a time frame where if one thing is kept non-negotiable too much, to have something else that is aspirational, does that become a problem? For example, if I have my studies that are aspirational, so I am putting more effort into that, and then bhakti is at non-negotiable for a long time, does that become a problem? How do you find that balance? Okay, yeah.

Good question. So, if we keep bhakti at a non-negotiable level because some other area, like our studies or career is at aspirational level, will it become a problem? Yes, if we don't have any plan or timeline for when we can prioritize our bhakti also. So, studies may be important, but it's not that we are going to study 24 hours a day.

So, we have our vacations, we have our midterm breaks, and we have phases in our life when we can prioritize our bhakti. So, what happens is that if there is a certain level of introspection and honesty required, because the mind is dangerously expert at self-deception. That means, it's not that we are ourselves dishonest, but we are rather our mind disuses and we don't realize it also.

Say, you know, my studies is important, my career is important, my family is important, that's why I cannot come to the temple. That's why I cannot practice bhakti. And that may be true at that time, but is it true at all times? So, after some time, it may be that we are not even doing that particular activity.

We are just wasting time watching TV, going to social media, this and that. And we are saying I don't have time for bhakti. So, that should not be happening.

So, that's why one point I am not able to talk is that in the class is that it's good to have association that holds us accountable. So, if we are making a plan that for this period of my life, I want to prioritize this, then have some association, not just this friendly association, but some senior or equal who will hold us accountable. Okay, this is your plan.

And how is that plan going forward? Then our mind may deceive us, but then somebody else around us can detect it. So, for example, in the 5th canto there is a story of Bharat Maharaj. He renounced the whole world to practice bhakti.

And then he saw a deer. You know the story? So, now when that baby deer was all alone, so the mother deer was jumping across the river running away from a tiger. And then it had a miscarriage.

Somehow the baby survived. And the baby fell into the river and the mother died. So, at that time, Bharat Maharaj naturally jumped into the river to save that deer.

That's natural. He was by nature a protector. So, if somebody is in danger, he will protect.

That's basic humanity, basic decency. But then what happened was, see for him, he had renounced the world so much that if some prostitute or some kind of that gross temptation had come, he would not have said no to it. He would have easily said no to it.

If somebody had come, come on, enjoy this wealth, he would have said no to it. But temptation came to him in a way that seemed very close to his duty. That you are a protector and you should protect over here.

So, generally if somebody is a devotee, maya is not going to come and say drink alcohol. Or he will say we are not going to say yes to it. But it may be okay, you know, take this drink, this is non-alcoholic, this is this and this is that, let me take one drink and another drink.

It's a drift. It's more a drift than a fall for most devotees. So, what happened for him? The protection at that particular moment was not wrong at all.

But from protection, he shifted soon to the role of maintenance. That in that emergency, I protect that baby, that is apad dharma, that is good emergency duty. But if the baby doesn't have a mother, I have to take care of the baby.

So, he became the mother and the father of the baby. Now, this is where the drift started happening. So, then when he was doing his sadhana, he was looking at the deer, thinking about the deer.

So, if he had had some association that would have held him accountable, that you did was right, but now you are going off right now. So, in that particular emergency, when the baby deer was about to drown, for him to give up his sadhana to save the baby deer, that is fine. But then continuing on in that role as a maintainer was what became a problem for him.

So, association that holds us accountable is important. Yes, ma'am, thank you. Artha needs to be used for parmartha.

Otherwise, it will become an artha. Exactly. So, let's say, in some situation, the people who are close to you, maybe friends or family, and you see them that there are certain things, certain arthas, they are trying to make it as their parmartha, like not in a good way, kind of an artha way.

So, what should be your approach to make them aware that, hey, look, you are actually going too far, you have to kind of back off. So, what's the positive and constructive way so that they listen to you rather than being defensive? Yeah, it's a good question that when somebody is making an artha into a parmartha, and that is leading to an artha basically. They are going too far, but if we tell them they may go too far from us also.

So, what do we do at that time? So, yes. I think that it is a very difficult situation to guide or instruct or inform or warn at that time. Generally, what is helpful is that we may want to give a warning, but it's best to give a vision.

That is not that you are doing wrong, you are doing bad or you are going too far. You are going in this direction, where will this end up? So, what happens if say, if I am here and I am meant to, I just meant to go here. If I take one off turn, it is no big deal.

But if the next is off turn, next off turn, then eventually I will end up very far away from where I wanted to go. So, what is happening is that each step seems to be small, seems to be inconsequential, but the eventual result is not just consequential, it can be catastrophic. So, that vision to see and show where this is going, that is something which is required.

So, rather than telling the person you are doing wrong, the way you are going, where this is going to take you. You say, no, no, I am not going to go in that direction. But then we can say, then okay, you did this also.

Ten years ago or one year ago or ten months ago, you thought you would not do this also. So, it's subtle that happens. So, now how do we help in this, that particular, so the point is more of giving vision that is cautionary rather than giving a warning or instruction, because everybody will make their own choices.

Let us make one more point over here. See, when does a person, when do we do, when do we change course? However, we are going in our life, when do we change course? There are basically two impetuses for changing course. Either I see that I am going towards something which is undesirable or even unacceptable.

Or the other is I am losing something which is important or which is invaluable. I will end up losing this. So, generally, if both come together, this will take me in undesirable direction.

And this will make me lose something valuable. And that is the most forceful course correction. Say, if we are staying in a particular house, when will we change our house? Either we get another house which is irresistible deal or our present house becomes unbearable.

Isn't it? Maybe there is too much noise, maybe all the amenities are not there, too much crime. Like both are there. The present house is unbearable and we have got another house which is irresistible, unbeatable deal.

Then immediately take it. So, basically, when a person is on a particular course, one aspect is show them where this will take them. Where this will, where they will end up if they go on that direction.

And the second is what it will cost them. What they will lose because of it. So, because that thing itself will cause harm eventually.

But going in that direction is also going to take them away from other things. So, if somebody has anger, somebody has anger issues. Now, they may say that, okay, it's not a big deal.

When I was growing up, one of my hobbies was just picking up dictionary and memorizing words. So, I had a very good vocabulary. But then when growing up, I was a little short tempered also.

Now, I soon discovered that a good vocabulary and a bad temper is a deadly combination. So, normally when most people get angry, they just become incoherent. They may yell and scream and they speak hurtful things, but it's insensible.

Doesn't make any sense. They have lost track. They have lost the plot.

But if somebody is very articulate, when they get angry, they can be so sarcastic. They can be so hurtful. So, I was a nice person.

I thought I was a nice person. But there would be these periods when I would just get so angry. And one of my friends was warning me, you have got a bad temper.

I didn't pay much attention. That person did like that. That's why I got angry with that person.

So, now this was the 90s. At that time, technology was not so much. So, this friend was warning me 2-3 times and I didn't pay much attention.

Then one day, he got a small tape recorder to the college. And I got angry and he recorded me yelling in anger. And you know, if you have never heard your voice being recorded, then it sounds a bit different.

First time if you have heard a recording of your own voice, it sounds a little different from your voice. So, he, after he recorded me speaking, after a few hours, after a couple of days actually, he said, I want you to hear something. And he started playing the recording.

I started hearing. He says, what a nasty guy. So, he allowed me to speak on.

I continued hearing. He says, this is really rude. Who is this person? So, I just continued criticizing myself.

And then he let me go on for almost, the full recording was about 5-6 minutes. And he said, do you know who this person is? I said, no. I wouldn't even want to know such a person.

So, he said, you know him very well. And then he placed a mirror in front of me. So, that was like a big shock for me at that time.

You know, how did I speak something like this? That's when I realized I have to get a hold on my anger. So, sometimes we have to, that was a bit dramatic what he did. But the point is, giving a vision of where that actually would take us.

Or take that person. That's what needs to be done. How to do that, that may require some creativity, some expertise, some thoughtfulness, sometimes some prayerfulness to get that in solution.

Any other questions? How this one, we have the stages in devotion, progress, right? Anartha Nivrtti. So, how this one fits with your… Okay, good question. So, how does the Anartha Nivrtti that we talk about in the series of Bhakti fit in this? Okay, see the word Anartha, like the word Artha has different meanings.

The word Anartha also has different meanings. And Anartha Nivrtti, in the 9 stages of Bhakti, that refers specifically to certain Anarthas getting removed. So, the idea that in general we have particular conditionings and those conditionings, they decrease and they disappear.

That happens by the purification that we do in Bhakti. So, we do Bhajana Kriya, we diligently do Bhajana Kriya, then Anartha Nivrtti naturally happens. So, if somebody may have too much anger, too much greed, too much lust or whatever, those will decrease by the practice of Bhakti.

So, when you talk about Anarthas, there is one is the conditioning that is there. That conditioning will decrease. But the possibility, you can say that, okay, let's use the word, rhyming word, that the propensity, the propensity will decrease because we become purified.

But the possibility always remains. So, that as long as we are in the material world, Maya is there and the possibility to be tempted will always be there. So, it's like, if we consider our consciousness, our Chetna to be like a floor of a house.

Now, there is the word we use, inclination. Now, inclination can refer to a physical feature of a floor. The floor is inclined in a particular direction.

But inclination can refer to our tendency also. Now, see, the inclination is like a gentle slope. It's a gentle slope.

The water will flow gently over here. If the inclination is much steeper, the water will flow much faster. If the inclination is like this, the water will basically be like a waterfall.

Isn't it? So, like that, now what happens? If we consider Anarthani Urutti happens, our conditioning, it decreases. So, when somebody is very conditioned, that means something goes wrong, they have a short temper, they have anger, they are going to yell and explode. But if the anger decreases, if something goes wrong, they will still get upset.

But they will just raise their voice slightly. Or they will do something to express their anger, but not yell and explode. So, what happens is, conditionings that decrease as we move towards Anarthani Urutti.

At the same time, so here the propensity is very high. That is what is likely to happen. But here, still the possibility is there.

So, even if the floor is completely flat, still the possibility is there that the water can go in that direction. But the likelihood, the probability of that happening gets lowered. So, in general, when we become purified, the probability that we get tempted decreases because our floor is not inclined in that, mental floor is not inclined in that direction.

So, in that sense, the propensity has gone down. But the possibility is always there. The Mahagatam says that, for example, except Lord Narayana, nobody in this world is free from temptation, free from being tempted by lust.

So, the possibility is always there. But purification means the propensity goes down, the probability goes down. Thank you.

Any last question before we stop? Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much. My question is, we are part of many goals and we hear so many lectures on work-life balance and we think, okay, if I go for work, 8 hours work, it is unprofitable, nothing.

But time distribution is fine. But whether consciousness is all over the place, we are at work, we are thinking of chanting, we are chanting, we are thinking of work. And like household duties are some reasons.

We can't give our 100% to one thing. So, what is the solution? Yeah, that is, we have many roles to play. But while our body is in one role, our mind is in another role.

Isn't it? So, nowadays cameras are much better. But in the past, if somebody had done a home-recorded video, and in the video and the audio are out of sync. Isn't it? So, somebody offers a congratulations or there is a movie going on and somebody punches, and a person falls down and then you hear the sound of the punch.

So, it is odd. So, like that, often our mind and body are out of sync for us. So, it happens to everyone.

It happens, I would say all the time, but it is a common problem for every one of us. So, I would say that for this mind-body out of sync, there are three levels of dealing with it. First is that the conviction.

That we need to understand that every role is important. It is not that because I am practicing bhakti, my family and my job are just material things like that. No, there are also ways of serving Krishna.

So, when I was doing college preaching a lot, at that time, the students would have this, we call it PL, preparatory leave. So, it is in preparatory leave, the students, many devotee students would fall in love with Shastra. And not just philosophical books like Mahabharata, Ramayana and Leela Amrit.

Why? Because studying is so difficult. And reading stories is so nice and so easy. So now, are they actually attracted to Shastra or are they simply avoiding studies? Isn't it? So, conviction that studying is also a way of serving Krishna.

So, we need to have that conviction. There are two ways in which we turn towards Krishna. See, one is, from where am I, I go towards Krishna.

The other is, I turn away from the world to go towards Krishna. The other is, I go through the world to Krishna. So, turning away from the world to go to Krishna is our sadhana.

Turning to the world to go through the world to Krishna is our seva. So, now we are building a temple. Building a temple or you are having a new project.

Now, many of you may feel, I want to do more sadhana. And now, having a temple, having a project, that itself is what? A lot of this has to be done, that has to be done, that has to be done. We have to deal with the world.

But we are dealing with the world for Krishna's sake. So, both are ways of moving towards Krishna. So, first is the conviction that everything is important.

Not that everything is, only one thing is important, another thing I just have to do it because I have to do it. Okay, let me say I have to do it right now. But while I have to do it, it is by Krishna's arrangement that I am in this situation.

So, let me do it as well as I can. So, conviction means when the mind has gone off sync, at least there is a part of me which recognizes I have to bring it back. So, now after the conviction is there, then after that, we need to have the supportive, we could say, environment or association or whatever.

So, there is internal and there is external. So, for everything that we do, we need the supportive environment. Willpower alone is not enough.

So, if we are going to office, then focus on the office work over there. Sometimes we may work from home and that's fair enough. But what happens is work from home becomes work for home.

Isn't it? And then, it's good we can do multitasking also. In many ways, we say that in our Varana and Ashram can both go together. If we are working from home.

Can take care of family and do our office work also. But the thing is that both have to be done and our office work cannot be neglected. So, what is supportive environment? There is one devotee friend of mine.

He is an author. So, he has six children. And he took me to his study room.

He says, writing. And he has put a big note over there. He says, I am writing now.

If you disturb me, after obeisances to you, I will break your legs. But the point is, you have to create some boundaries. That this is the place where I am working.

So, we need to have the right environment. So, how to create that supportive environment, that is important. And then after that, it is a matter of purification.

See, sometimes we think purification comes only by doing Bhakti. And of course, we have to do Bhakti. But purification basically means that our mind does what we want it to do.

Not what it wants it to do. So, now studying or doing our job may not make our mind attracted to Krishna directly. But that can actually help us discipline our mind.

That may force us to discipline our mind. And that can be a good thing. So, it is an incremental process.

And it does take time. Sometimes when you start an activity, having some kind of reflection. That okay, now I am doing my job.

I am doing my family work. This is how it is a service to Krishna. Why it is important for me.

Just have some few quotes to read that. I had one devotee who was a very scholarly devotee friend. And he was made in charge of an educational institute.

He had a lot of management. So, he said that he looked through Prabhupada's books. And he found out all quotes about the importance of organized education.

And he kept those quotes with him. So, he didn't like management. But he said for the sake of having education, we need education infrastructure.

And I will create that. So, reading those quotes would give him that motivation. This is an important service.

So, sometimes we may have to do certain things not because we like to do them. But because we need to do them so that we can do what we like to do. Isn't it? So, now what we may not like to do.

If we remind ourselves why we are doing it. So, that recollection, that regular recollection is very helpful. Because our mind keeps us forgetting, makes us forget.

It reminds us only of the trouble in doing that activity. And what is the purpose of doing that activity? The mind makes us forget that. So, it's helpful to remind ourselves of that.

Does it make sense? Thank you. So, thank you very much. Shri Mataji, thank you.

Shri Prabhupada, thank you. Gaurav, thank you. Thank you very much.