When seeking material things from God is spiritually unhealthy — & when it isn’t

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Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya This chapter describes how Indra, the king of heaven, was victorious over the soldiers of the demons.
And it also describes the shield of the Vishnu mantras. To take protection from this shield, one must first touch Kushagras and wash one’s mouth with Aachman mantras. One should observe silence and then place the eight-syllable Vishnu mantra on the parts of his body and place the 12-syllable mantras on his head.
The eight-syllable mantra is Om Namo Narayanaya. This mantra should be distributed all over the front and back of the body. The 12-syllable mantra which begins with the Pranava Omkar is Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya.
One syllable should be placed on each of the fingers and should be preceded by the Pranava Omkar. Thereafter, one must chant Om Vishnavena Maha, which is a six-syllable mantra. One syllable should be placed on each of the fingers and should be preceded by the Pranava Omkar.
Thereafter, one must chant Om Vishnavena Maha, which is a six-syllable mantra. One must progressively place the syllables of the mantra on the heart, the head, between the two eyebrows, on the shikha and between the eyes. And then one should chant Maha Astraya Phat and with this mantra protect himself from all directions.
Na Devo Devam Arjayet. One who has not risen to the level of a Deva cannot chant this mantra. According to this direction of the Shastra, one must think himself qualitatively non-different to the Supreme.
After finishing this dedication, one must offer a prayer to the right term Lord Vishnu, who sits on the shoulder of Garuda Dev. One also has to think of the fish incarnation. Vamankurna, Narasimha, Varaha, Parashurama, Ramachandra, the elder brother of Lakshman, Narayana, Dattatreya, an empowered incarnation, Kapila, Dhan Mantre, Rishabhdev, Yajna, Balaram, Yasadev, Buddha Dev and Keshava.
One should think of Govinda, the master of Vrindavan. And one should think of Narayana, the master of the spiritual sky. One should think of Madhusudana, Tridham, Madhava, Rishi Keshava, Padmanabha, Janardana, Damodara and Vishweshwara.
As well as the supreme personality of Godhead, Krishna himself. After offering prayers to the Lord’s personal expansions, known as the Swamshya and Shaktyavesha avatars, one should pray to the weapon of Lord Narayana, such as the Sudarshan, Gada, Shankha, Khadga and Bho. After explaining this process, Shukadeva Goswami told Maharaj Parichit how Vishwaroop, the brother of Uttarasa, described the glories of the Narayana Kavach to Indra.
You want to go to the verse 689. You want to send it? Okay. Thank you.
Kalki Kale Kaal Malad Prapathu Dharma Vanayor Krutavatarah Dvaipayano Bhagavan Aprabodhad Uddhas Tupashanda Gana Pramadad Kalki Kale Kaal Malad Prapathu Dharma Vanayor Krutavatarah Dvaipayano Bhagavan Aprabodhad Uddhas Tupashanda Gana Pramadad Kalki Kale Kaal Malad Prapathu Dharma Vanayor Krutavatarah Dvaipayano Bhagavan Aprabodhad Uddhas Tupashanda Gana Pramadad Kalki Kale Kaal Malad Prapathu Dharma Vanayor Krutavatarah Dvaipayano Bhagavan Aprabodhad Uddhas Tupashanda Gana Pramadad Kalki Kale Kaal Malad Prapathu Dharma Vanayor Krutavatarah Dvaipayana Shri Vyasadev Shri Vyasadev, the giver of all Vedic knowledge Bhagavan, most powerful incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Aprabodhad, from ignorance of the Shastra Uddhatu, also Lord Buddha Pashanda Gana, of atheists creating disillusionment for innocent persons Pramadad, from the madness Kalki, Lord Kalki, Carnation of Keshava Kale, of this Kali Yuga Kaal Malad, which is of the age of Prapathu May he protect Avanarya, for the protection of religious principles Guru, very great Krutavatarah, who took an incarnation Translations purport also like that? Okay, it’s creative Creative and efficient Translation, purport by His Divine Grace, Isi Bhaktivedanta Swami Sri Prabhupada May the Personality of Godhead, in His incarnation of Vyasadev protect me from all kinds of ignorance resulting from the absence of Vedic knowledge May Lord Buddha protect me from activities opposed to Vedic principles and from laziness that causes one to madly forget the Vedic principles of knowledge and ritualistic action May Kalki Dev, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who appeared as an incarnation to protect religious principles protect me from the dirt of the age of Kali purport This verse mentions various incarnations of the Supreme Personality of Godhead who appear for various purposes Srila Vyasadev Mahamuni compiled the Vedic literature for the benefit of all human society If one wants to be protected from the reactions of ignorance even in this age of Kali one may consult the books left by Srila Vyasadev namely the four Vedas, Sama, Yajur, Rig and Atharva the 108 Upanishads, Vedanta Sutra, Brahma Sutra, Mahabharata, Srimad Bhagavatam, Mahapurana Vyasadev’s commentary on the Brahma Sutra and the other 17 Puranas Only by the mercy of Srila Vyasadev do we have so many volumes of transcendental knowledge to save us from the clutches of ignorance As described by Srila Jayadev Goswami in his Dashavatarastra Uttara Lord Buddha apparently decried the Vedic knowledge Nindassi Yagya Vidherah Shruti Jatratam Sadaya Hridaya Darshita Pashu Ghatam Keshavadrita Puttashareera Jaya Jagadishahare The mission of Lord Buddha was to save people from the abominable activity of animal killing and to save the poor animals from being unnecessarily killed When Pashundis were cheating by killing animals on the plea of sacrificing them in Vedic Yagyas, the Lord said If the Vedic injunctions allow animal killing, I do not accept the Vedic principles Thus he actually saved people who acted according to Vedic principles One should therefore surrender to Lord Buddha so that he can help one avoid misusing the injunctions of the Vedas The Kalki Avatar is the fierce incarnation who vanquishes the class of the atheists born in this age of Kali Now in the beginning of Kali Yoga, many irreligious principles are in effect and as Kali Yoga advances, many pseudo-religious principles will certainly be introduced and people will forget the real religious principles enunciated by Lord Krishna before the beginning of Kali Yoga namely principles of surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord Unfortunately, because of Kali Yoga, foolish people do not surrender to the lotus feet of Krishna Even most people who claim to belong to the Vedic system of religion are actually opposed to the Vedic principles Every day they manufacture a new type of Dharma on the plea that whatever one manufactures is also a path of liberation Atheistic men generally say Yatha Matha Tatha Matha According to this view, there are hundreds and thousands of different opinions in human society and each opinion is a valid religious principle This philosophy of rascals has killed the religious principles mentioned in the Vedas and such philosophies will become increasingly influential as Kali Yoga progresses In the last stage of Kali Yoga, Kalki Deva, the fierce incarnation of Keshava will descend to kill all the atheists and will save only the devotees of the Lord Vedanta Swami Itinamine Namaste Saraswati Deve Gauravani Pracharini Nirvishesha Shunyavadi Ashyatya Deshatarini Vanchakal Patarubhyascha Tripasindhubhyaevacha Patitanam Pavanebhyo Vishna Vibhyo Namo Namaha Jai Shri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nithyananda Sri Advaita Gadadharam Sri Vasadhi Gaurabhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Hare Krishna Grateful to be here with all of you And today we are discussing the chapter in the Srimad Bhagavatam where its distinctive dramatic style or narrative style is evident The Bhagavatam in some ways reflects the typical literature that were composed at its time but in some ways it is significantly different The Bhagavatam is part of the Puranas And the Puranas are filled with stories However, the Bhagavatam has lots of stories However, in the middle of the stories sometimes it pauses for elaborate prayers And the idea is the Bhagavatam is not just narrating a story The purpose of the Bhagavatam is to emphasize and elevate consciousness And say for example, sometimes if there is an action movie Somebody is doing a lot of brilliant action stunts Now what happens? Now that person may do those action stunts so fast that neither the opponent nor the spectator has understood what happened There are 5 opponents standing nearby and all of them get knocked down So what happened? So what happens is sometimes we show that when the action is about to happen the movie goes into slow motion And they are showing this is what happened move the hand like this, move the leg like this, dodge like this and then oh this is what happened And you get appreciated more So the idea is what is more important is emphasized And one way of emphasizing is taken in slow motion So similarly in the Bhagavatam the emphasis is not so much on the narration, on the action It is there and it’s an important part of the Bhagavatam But the emphasis is on the consciousness And that’s why that is sort of expanded So something similar to showing in slow motion So a Brahmastra is coming A deadly weapon is coming toward Arjuna And Arjuna is turning toward Krishna and offering prayers So how does he offer prayers? We say the weapon is coming, how can he offer prayers? But that is reflecting the consciousness Now if somebody is very prayerful Spontaneously prayers come up from that person So just like somebody who doesn’t have a habit Somebody has a habit, so they slip or fall and say Krishna That just become a habit, they don’t have to think about it Somebody is deeply immersed in Krishna consciousness The prayers may come spontaneously But the Bhagavatam emphasizes those prayers In fact, it seems out of 300 plus chapters that are there in the Bhagavatam More than 20% of the chapters or 20% of the content of the Bhagavatam is prayers Elaborate prayers So the different prayers serve different purposes And this is one of the unusual prayers in the Bhagavatam Most prayers are glorifying the Lord or seeking His protection At least in the Bhagavatam, there are different kinds of prayers But here, specifically, the pastime of Ruktarasura is going on Where he is a fierce demon who has a fascinating backstory which will be revealed later But he has not just defeated the Devatas But he has effortlessly defeated the Devatas So that is something which the Devatas can’t digest It’s one thing if there is a world tennis number one player And some unknown upstart who is not even seeded Who came in through the qualifying rounds And then there is upset That person defeats the world number one That’s bad enough But if that player does a bagel and defeats 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 That’s totally humiliating So something like that happened This unknown demon Ruktarasura comes and just destroys the Devatas And the Devatas don’t know what to do And one definition of intelligence is to know what to do when you don’t know what to do What it means is that we turn to God for guidance I don’t know what to do, I pray to the Lord So that is intelligence, to know what to do when we don’t know what to do So if we are driving, we don’t know where to drive The intelligent thing is to turn towards an expert who can guide us So here the Devatas, they turn towards the Supreme Lord And they offer prayers And this is, they are seeking protection from the Devatas So from the Supreme Lord rather And this particular set of prayers is called the Narayana Kavacham So Kavacham means armour or a shield And Narayana, of course, is the name of the Supreme Lord So these are the prayers by which a subtle shield is formed It’s not a physical shield that is worn It is a mantra shield that is subtle That is applied around the body Through subtle means by which a person is protected This idea of the subtle domain or the non-physical domain Science may be sceptical of it, but almost all science fiction has it Isn’t it? So even in movies, there is one person attacking the other person And their blows seem to be landing What happened? If hitting, hitting, hitting That person has an invisible defence mechanism around it So you can’t see it, but it is there So this is the idea, the subtle domain See what happens is, we may have reductionistic science Which says, no, everything has to be quantified, measured Well, it has to be physical and tangible and measurable That’s okay That may be the approach of science And it is valid as far as it goes But actually, attraction to the supernatural is natural for the human heart Attraction to the supernatural is natural And that’s why most stories, most science fiction, most superheroes They all have some supernatural abilities And people suspend their rationality and they enjoy it So that’s because ultimately the heart is attracted to the supreme supernatural being That is Krishna So this is a subtle shield that is formed using the mantras And this is being used by Indra to protect himself from Narayan And within that set of prayers, there is one prayer which describes How the various avatars who appear, the various descents of the Lord Who appear at various times They are being invoked for protection And the protection sought is corresponding to their particular mission So now sometimes we differentiate between the material and the spiritual We should not pray to the Lord for material things We should pray to the Lord for spiritual things So that is the theme I will focus on When Krishna appears to the world Does he come to provide material protection or spiritual protection? What do you think? Yeah Well, there are only three answers If we consider Krishna’s mission in the Bhagavad Gita 4.7 4.7 describes that he descends And 4.8 describes what is the purpose Paritranaya sadhuna vinashyase dushrta Dharma samsthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge So 4.8 describes the mission as Dharma And 4.9 and 4.10 So 4.7 and 4.8 describe the mission of Dharma 4.9 and 4.10 describe another part of it janma karma chame divyam evam yo vittatvataha tyaktva deham punar janma naitimame tiso arjuna and then mitraagabhaya krodha manmaya mam upashyataha bahavo jnana tapasa poota madbhavam agataha So we could say broadly Krishna is describing two missions in this set of two verses One is a mission in the world And the second is the mission in the heart So the mission in the world is to establish Dharma And that means those who are lawbreakers Dharma here means social order To establish order in society And those who are lawbreakers Those who are disruptors Those who are despots Krishna neutralizes them And in one sense we can say Dharma is material Material in the sense that I’ll talk about how the words material and spiritual need to be nuanced But material in the sense that external order in society So Kamsa is terrorizing Kamsa is killing Vasudev and Devaki’s children in cold blood And then Krishna descends And Krishna kills Kamsa So the idea is that material order that is conducive for spiritual growth that is Dharma So Krishna comes to establish Dharma in the world And that is his immediate action But the problem is that by the power of time everything declines So that mission of the eternal lord also has a temporary effect The order is established but soon from order comes disorder However the enduring legacy of the lord is not the external mission but the internal mission He performs various pastimes And those who become attracted to those pastimes they fall in love with him And for them spiritual growth happens They develop Bhava, they develop Prema So we could say there is twofold mission to establish Dharma in the world and to inspire Prema in the heart So both these missions are there And sometimes devotees say that we are not interested in politics Now we may say we are not interested in politics but politics is interested in us What does that mean? Politics affects everyone If there is one political change in the government the government can change policies In India, in one of the states very pious state in India where the government changed and the day the government changed the next day they legalized cow slaughter So there is now cow slaughter in India is still quite strongly approached So there are changes that happen So politics will affect us And in one sense political changes are are something which can either direct resources spiritually or can misdirect resources for mundane and sensual purposes We could say at one level Krishna doesn’t say I am not interested in politics Krishna’s whole purpose is to bring about political change Duryodhana is the ruler Kauravas are the rulers Krishna wants the Pandavas to be rulers So we can’t dismiss the mundane as simply mundane So there is a big difference between even if we say the political rulers are not spiritual but even if they are in goodness whether they are in passion or they are in ignorance that can make a huge difference Those who are in passion, at least they will take care of the world and administration enough so that people’s material life can go on smoothly But those who are in ignorance they will simply exploit and destroy So that is dangerous So Krishna is concerned about the external world also And in that sense the material is not insignificant for Krishna the material dimension of life So that is the theme I will focus on today that when Krishna descends he has this material and spiritual dimension both to it So can make it full steam So when seeking material protection or material help from God is spiritually unhealthy and when it isn’t So now we may say I want to practice pure devotion I want to develop love for God So most people are the opposite Most people, what is the idea? They are seeking material things from God So for them in one sense religion is like a cheaper alternative to shopping So a prayer is basically like a shopping list So pray to God, I want this, please give me this So now what is the problem with this? If you are seeking only material things, go ahead So first of all, it is based on an inadequate understanding of God We see God as the fulfiller of our desires And he can be a fulfiller of our desires But actually he is the fulfilment of our desires He is a supreme all attractive being And only by attaining him will we attain contentment, will we attain fulfilment Otherwise no matter how many things we attain The result is that we just What happens is that everything we crave We crave for an object And if I get that object, I will become happy But what happens, the very act of craving strengthens the tendency for craving And even if we get that object The craving tendency is still there And we will crave for something else So if we are habituated to looking at the things that we don’t have Even if we get those things, this is a category of things I have This is a category of things I don’t have If my habit is to look at the things that I don’t have Even if I move 1, 10, 50, 100 things from that category to this category The things I don’t have, the things I have But the problem is not what I have and what I don’t have The problem is what is my habitual tendency So every time we are staring and craving for the things we don’t have We are strengthening that tendency And the result of that will be There will always be things which we don’t have Nobody can possess everything in the world So then we will always stay dissatisfied So the problem is not what we The problem is not what we possess or we don’t possess The problem is what we crave for People want to improve the standard of living And that’s fine Nobody wants to live in poverty or anxiety resulting from that But more important than improving our standard of living Is improving our standard of longing Standard of longing What is the quality of my desires? So am I simply craving for the things that I don’t have? That’s what I will be doing for the rest of my life Is there something higher that I can seek? So this is the problem It is based on inadequate understanding of God And we see him as the fulfiller of desires But no matter how my desires are fulfilled, more will still remain And then yeah, it is also utilitarian reciprocations What happens is we are going to God But we are not interested in who he is We are interested in what he can give us In India especially there are many temples There are temples of God, there are temples of demigods And there are temples of semi-gods Now what is semi-god? Say me God I am God So many times people just go to the temple And they close their eyes and they pray fervently And then after that wonder who is there on the altar For when there is hardly any interest in who is on the altar As long as that person fulfills my desires That is the idea So there is very little interest in God per se And this is a very So this doesn’t lead to any kind of Understanding is improper and the relationship is also very utilitarian Suppose somebody is normally very gruff and rude or curt with us And one day they come I start talking very politely and sweetly Literally our mind gets a question What does this person want from me? So when somebody is sweet with us Only when they want something Then that’s not a very pleasing relationship So we can apply the same dynamic to God That seeking only material things This is the problem with it But that doesn’t mean Approaching God for material things itself is bad There is something right about it also And what is it that is right? At least there is a relationship Suppose there is a parent from whom the child has got estranged for a long time And then after a long time, after several years of estrangement The child calls the parents And now what will be the parent’s prominent question? The child wants, the child is in trouble and wants some help So will the parent say that No, after all this time you just called me just to ask for this Or will the parents ask What took you so long to call me? What took you so long to come to me? So in that sense Krishna is happy when we connect with him That’s why Krishna also says Whatever reason somebody comes to me Krishna says they are good souls Of course this is 7.16 And 7.19 he says those who come to Krishna For the fulfilment of their desires Those who see him as the fulfiller of their desires Even he calls them as good souls But those who see him as the fulfiller of their desires Then he calls us Mahatmas So Mahatmas are great souls So Krishna wants all of us to become great souls But even if you become good souls, come towards him He is happy about it So approaching God for material things Is itself not a bad thing Here we see Indra He is approaching Vishnu for protection Oh this demon, I can’t find him there And this prayer is described in the Bhagavatam Why? Because that is also a good thing Coming to God for it So sometimes we can say The good is the enemy of the best That is true But the good is definitely better than the bad So it depends on where the person is That we have to decide How to guide or elevate a person Or even elevate ourselves Suppose a parent has two children And one of them just barely scrapes through the exams Getting about 40% marks And the other is brilliant They get 100% marks And today, one day both of them come with the results And both of them have got 70% And the first child steps forward The father says, well done And pats him on the back And the second child says Pounds him on the back What have you done? Both of them got the same marks Why this discrimination? Well, it’s not discrimination It’s reciprocation based on the level For a person who is at 40% level 70% is a step up That’s why well done For a person who is at 100% 70% is a step down That’s why what have you done? Similarly, for those who never turn towards God For them, if they turn towards God Whatever be the reason In India, once I saw a lecture One Indian guru says Why not try God? You try this, you try that Why not try God? That’s fair enough Just try it out So that is a good soul Somebody who turns towards God for that But somebody who is at the level where they can They are at 100% level They are seeking pure devotion Or they have pure devotion For them to come down to utilitarian level That is not good That’s why what have you done? So we have to understand the level So what’s right with it is that If somebody is at 40% Going towards 70% is good Go ahead Now we may say We are all at 100% We are all pure devotees Well, we think we are pure devotees Is generally pure illusion We can say that we are aspiring for pure devotion But even that may not be our most prominent aspiration We all have something in Krishna Bhakti In Krishna Consciousness That we enjoy more than Krishna It’s Krishna Consciousness But we enjoy something more than Krishna It may be prasad It may be prasad It may be music It may be just exhibiting our abilities It may be leadership It may be management Whatever it is We enjoy that And Krishna accepts that That is not the higher taste But that is within the domain of higher taste So if we seek only spiritual things That’s good But that’s good ultimately But it may not be good contextually Let’s see what’s the problem with it So material things occupy a prominent place in our heart Whether we admit it or not They occupy a prominent place And if we say I will not pray for anything material to Krishna Then what happens is A large part of our heart stays unconnected with Krishna And then the result of that is what? Go ahead And when we pray to Krishna That may be a ritual But because the things we are praying for Are not really that important for us right now So we can’t invest much emotion in our relationship In our prayer to Krishna In our relationship with Krishna So if somebody is very sick And nothing is working for them And their health is disrupting all aspects of their life And they say Krishna please help me to chant your name Well it is good that we are praying like that But it is difficult for that to be the most prominent concern in a person’s mind When there is a much more urgent existential concern Isn’t it? So if we say I will not pray for anything material That’s okay Another problem that’s okay in principle But in practice it may not work It may prevent our heart from getting connected with Krishna And material is also a very big word Because what does material mean? In material there is goodness, there is passion and there is ignorance So if somebody is praying that How there are people who are intolerant There are three people from three intolerant religions went to God And the first person from religion A said Oh God I do not want anything for myself I just want the world to be rid of this terrible religion B and all its followers And a person from religion B says Oh God I don’t want anything for myself I just want the world to be rid of This religion A and all its followers And the person from religion C says Oh God I don’t want anything for myself I just want you to fulfill the prayers of religion and religion. So this is, these are like thomasic prayers, wanting the destruction of other people. That’s one thing.
But so because that is material, but if somebody has a newborn baby, and that baby is in an ICU and is sick, and don’t know whether she will live or die. And should we tell the parents, don’t pray to Krishna, that is material. You know, well, okay, there’s a big difference in material thomasic and parents who love their child, who want to responsibly raise their child, and their child is dying.
So if we, if you do not understand that there are various things in the material. Now, how can parents whose child is near death, think of anything else? They’ll pray to Krishna, they’ll chant in tensing. I know one Kapadi Voddi couple in New Zealand, their child was born almost three months earlier.
And he said that they did every day that he was in the incubator. So he said, we didn’t know whether she would live or die. Those three months were the best three months when we chanted in our life.
We say, okay, they’re praying to Krishna for their child’s safety, but still they were praying. They’re praying to Krishna, and their connection with that baby inspired them to connect better with Krishna. So we cannot just artificially partition material and spiritual.
Even for Krishna, he establishes dharma, so that prema can be established, isn’t it? So the material can be a foundation for the spiritual. We may say it is not essential, but it may not be essential for some people who are exalted pure devotees. But for most people, the material is the foundation for the spiritual.
All of you are attending this class. If there were no guarantee, whether Prasadam would be there after the class or not. The focus of the class would be much less.
So for most of us, the material is a foundation for the spiritual. Let me go ahead, give me a couple of slides. So now we may say, but our scriptures say aspire for pure devotional service.
So what do we do? How can we ask only for the spiritual? So two things. First is, we need to hear properly so that we understand the enduring value of the spiritual. Because in the material world with our senses, primarily our eyes, we will see worldly things and we will think these are what are attractive, these are what are valuable, these are what are indispensable in fact.
So we need to hear regularly. The eyes are frequently the way to illusion and the ears are the way to illumination. So we need to hear regularly.
Then we will remember the value of the spiritual. But along with that, it is not just here, we understand properly so that we expand our understanding of the spiritual. So what is spiritual? So we could actually everything is potentially spiritual.
So things can have different definitions, depend on different contexts. Say for example, if you consider the word spiritual, before I go into the spiritual, consider say in English, there’s the word run or running. Run is said to have the maximum meanings among all the words.
There are 640 meanings of running. So for example, I’m running in the morning. My washing machine is not running.
Who is running for president now? I am running because my car is not running. So words can have different meanings. And we look at context and we understand the meaning.
So the word spiritual can have two different meanings. One is by composition. So the body is spiritual, sorry, the soul is spiritual, the body is material.
So by composition means that which is made of sat, chit, anandam. And in that sense, the body is material and the soul is spiritual. There’s a radical differentiation.
But then the same Bhagavad Gita in second chapter talks about radical differentiation, has that verse 424. There is so much Brahma that we wonder what is Brahma. But what Krishna is saying over is, essentially by application, everything that can be used for a spiritual purpose, everything that can be used in Krishna’s service, that is spiritual.
So for example, if somebody is concerned for my health material or spiritual, well, what are we seeking health for? If the purpose of our life is spiritual, if I want to be healthy, so that I can serve Krishna, so that I can develop love for Krishna, so I can help others develop love for Krishna, then concern for the health can also be spiritualized. If somebody is worried about a job, if somebody is very anxious about having a good relationship, now is that material or is that spiritual? Well, it’s not so black and white. What is the purpose? Does one want a job or a relationship where one can gratify one’s senses, or one can have a stable foundation by which one can pursue spiritual life more vigorously.
So rather than simply thinking that we should never pray to Krishna for anything material, it’s difficult. Material things are important for us. What we can do is rather than changing the things that we value, we can’t do that immediately.
Rather than changing the things that we value, we can pray to change the reason we value those things. Rather than changing the things we value, health, wealth, relationships, career, we change the reason we value those things. So Krishna, I want my health to improve.
Krishna, I pray that this job works out so that I can serve you better. So we focus not so much on differentiating between matter and spirit, as differentiating between or changing, transforming our intention behind it. So this is a summary of everything that we discussed.
If we seek only, we pray for Krishna only for material, spiritual growth, even when material things are important for us. What will happen is our relationship with Krishna will stay very superficial because a major part of our heart is disconnected from Krishna. On the other hand, if we seek only for material things without caring for Krishna, then it’s like utilitarian.
Again, the relationship will be superficial. But if we connect with the Lord for the things that matter to us and for the things that we want to matter to us, they don’t matter right now so much to me, but I want them to matter. So if we do that, then we will have a deep relationship and a deepening relationship.
The relationship will keep getting stronger and stronger through every prayer, through every act of devotion, every devotional service will become stronger and stronger in our relationship with Krishna. So the concluding reflection is that we cannot become pure devotees without first becoming devotees. We cannot become pure.
What does that mean practically? Yeah, we aspire to develop a pure relationship with Krishna. At the same time, we act to develop a real relationship with Krishna. A real means if you have a real friend, you don’t partition our life.
Okay, my friend, I’ll only talk about these things. Now we talk about all the things that are important for us, whatever things are weighing our heart, are burning our mind, we talk about. So similarly, we try to develop a real relationship with Krishna.
And our focus will be more on connecting our heart with Krishna than purifying our heart. Because if our heart becomes connected with Krishna, Krishna’s very presence will eventually lead to purification. So I’ll summarize.
I broadly discussed four points today. First, I talked about the Bhagavatam’s emphasis on prayers. Because the Bhagavatam is focusing on consciousness, so there is slow motion almost to emphasize the prayers.
And we talked about these prayers are for material protection of Indra. So are they appropriate in the Bhagavatam? So we discussed how the Lord descends for both material and spiritual purposes, to establish material dharma in the world, material order, so that spiritual prema can be established in the heart. And then discussed about what’s right and what’s wrong and what’s right about approaching the Lord for material things.
Wrong because it’s a very utilitarian relationship based on inadequate understanding of God. It’s right is at least we’re related like a long lost child coming back to the parents. And then what’s wrong and right about approaching the Lord for spiritual things? Wrong is that we will, major part of our heart and state is connected.
Because what matters to us, we’re not connecting with Him. And even we pray, we’re not really praying about a thing that matters hugely to us. So then what’s the right? How can we make this right? By first hearing regularly, so that we start valuing the spiritual and also understanding properly so that we expand our understanding of spiritual.
It’s not just by composition that something becomes spiritual, but also by application. So rather than saying that we won’t pray for material things to the Lord, we can change why we pray for material things. Not for our gratification, but for better, better use in service, for a better situation to serve.
And that way rather than focusing on not connecting on purifying the heart, we can focus on connecting the heart and purification will result. Thank you very much. Do we have some time for questions? Yes.
Any questions? Yes, please. Thank you for the class, Prabhu. I have, I guess, a practical question about something that you said towards the beginning of class about how, you know, devotees don’t care so much about politics, but politics cares about us, so we can’t totally ignore it.
I’m just wondering what should a devotee’s approach be towards voting, especially considering that the caliber of politician isn’t, you can hardly find one in the mode of passion, let alone the mode of goodness. So what should a devotee’s approach towards voting be? So in general, this is something individual. So that is something which you could say the overall understanding as our movement is also going into the next generations, it is not so much what is the Krishna Conscious Movement supposed to do? It’s not the understanding is meant to instruct, instruct, oversee, discipline.
That’s the idea, as you know, you should vote for this party. If you don’t vote, you’ll be punished. It’s not like that.
It’s not instructing, overseeing and disciplining. It is more of training and trusting. We train, okay, this is what we want to pursue in our life.
And now how do you pursue it? It’s individual conscience, individual responsibility. That’s the purpose of Krishna Conscious Movement. Prabhupada wanted all of us to be independently thoughtful.
So basically, my understanding, it’s very dismissive to consider that all politicians are more the passion and ignorance. So why bother about politics? As I said that even passion and ignorance, there is a big difference. And Bhaktivinod Thakur says that sometimes rajas, passion can be a temporary but necessary antidote to the toxicity of tamas.
So, you know, they say if the parents are very passionate, that means that parents have a lot of demand on children, you should get this many marks, you should do this, you should do this. And the children may find this overbearing. But that’s far better than say parents who are in tamas.
They are say, their parents are doing drugs, and they don’t care if the children exist or not. Children have to fend for food. So there’s a big difference between rajas and tamas.
So each of us needs to think ourselves in our particular situation. And there is a hierarchy of values. And yes, we can say that all the politicians may eat meat, they may many of them, but they consider there are some issues where they may be favorable.
So we have to look at things in terms of hierarchy of values. Many of the top values which we value, they may not care for them at all. But there are other values.
So for example, what does somebody stand on abortion? That is something that is important. What is somebody supporting vegan culture? Are they just interested in just promoting meat and things like that? Are they supportive of spirituality? Or are they hostile towards it, seeing it as a threat to their own ethnic culture or whatever. So there are various ways in which the concerns of the mainstream political discourse will affect us.
And we have to, based on that, decide which concerns are most important, and make a reasonable choice. Now, of course, some people may feel that I’m just not interested, I have not voted. That’s also okay.
So that can be an individual preference. But collective apathy as a policy for every all devotees, that is not a healthy thing. Thank you.
Yes, thank you. I had a comment. So I was just thinking that the exclusive benefit of approaching Krishna or Vishnu, especially with material desires, as we can see from so many stories is that Krishna purifies the heart also, when we are approaching Him.
So gradually, there is purification and the root of desire is purified with time. That is true. We say, whether you have desires or no desires, just approach the Lord, and that will lead to purification.
That is true. Of course, you’ll see the duration varies. We’ve considered three stories in the Bhagavatam.
Let’s take two now quickly. With Rua, as soon as he saw the Lord, he became purified. He gave up the desire for a kingdom.
On the other hand, Pururava. Pururava was infatuated with Urvashi, and she left him, he actually performed a yajna to gain Vishnu, to please Vishnu. And Vishnu appeared in the yajna.
And Vishnu was in front of him. But what happened is, he said, please, I want Urvashi. So, and he got Urvashi.
But the result was that eventually, he became disillusioned. So what it means is that purification will happen by contact with the Lord. But how long that purification will take, that depends on how strongly a person is attached.
So we get a glimpse of the higher taste, and we have the lower taste. Now, we may say higher and lower, but that’s more of an objective analysis. For the person at that time, that lower taste may seem far higher.
So but at least the higher taste has penetrated into consciousness. And sooner or later, that person will turn. So that’s how it works.
Yes. Higher taste and the lower taste, is it like, I just had a thought that it had something to do with renouncing things that are favorable, and things that are unfavorable. Okay, is the higher taste node is related with renouncing things that are unfavorable or accepting things that are favorable? Like the lower taste would be like, you know, material situations or things that are actually favorable to your material life, but renouncing them.
Okay, that’s a good question. Sorry. So now I got it clearly.
See, basically, that’s why I don’t very much, I feel the word material and spiritual, especially when material is contrasted with the spiritual, is not particularly helpful. Say, for America, people say that, are you from Asia? And Asia is so big. In Asia, there is China, and there is Philippines, and there is India, and there is the Middle East.
And each of these have different, different cultures, so it’s a difference. Even India is so big. North India and South India are usually different.
Sometimes in India, if a marriage between an Indian American is easier than a marriage between North India and South India. So, these are two huge categories to be very helpful. So similarly, I think material is too huge a category.
Because in material, there is goodness, passion, and ignorance. And broadly speaking, we will say that passion is anti-devotion. Sorry, ignorance is anti-devotion.
Passion is non-devotion. And goodness is pro-devotion. So, we need to discern within the material, within the material and see, can I say what is it that, so if something is pro-devotional, and I reject that as mundane, that is what is called as phalgu vairagya, that is called as false renunciation.
So that we need to, that renunciation would be counterproductive for us. On the other hand, if we equate what is in goodness and what is in ignorance, and say that, oh, it’s all mundane. Then, no, we say that, oh, it’s, you know, I can use what is in ignorance also in devotional service.
Well, potentially, it’s possible, but practically, it’s very difficult. If somebody has a habit of reading a lot of books and understanding, getting a lot of information, getting a lot of knowledge, not necessarily spiritual, material knowledge, that can be used, that is, broadly, you can say is goodness. It’s not just reading, breaking news and updates, but really analysis and understanding.
That is useful. That is useful, we can use that knowledge later to serve Krishna, to present Krishna consciousness from a broader perspective. But somebody, so that is material, but it can be in goodness.
But if somebody has a habit of just consuming content indiscriminately, same thing. If he is surfing one site, another site, another site, you know, or earlier TV channels, just changing channels. Researchers have found that people are more attentive when they’re changing channels than when they’re watching channels.
Because when you start watching, I know what is going to go on, it’s boring. But changing, something new, something good will come. So that side of, it’s just trying to escape from reality without connecting with anything.
That is Tamasic. So that, that needs to be given up. So I would say that we have to ask ourselves, look, is this pro-devotional, non-devotional, anti-devotional? And based on that, we decide what I need to keep a distance from and what I can continue to connect with.
Okay. Yes. I was wondering, how do we make sure we don’t just be stuck in asking for material things for Krishna? Because, I mean, you expressed how our heart has so many material things and it’s good actually to pray to Krishna for it.
It’s true. But I was just wondering because sometimes then, can we keep doing it forever? I guess that’s my question. That’s a asking Krishna for material things forever.
How will we outgrow that? So that’s where our sadhana and our practice of bhakti comes in. See, as I said, the lower taste does not appear lower to the person who is in lower consciousness. Somebody is an alcoholic, when that urge for alcohol hits them, they may know intellectually, if I drink, no, this can disrupt my, I may lose my job, I may lose my family, I may lose my health.
But at that time, that’s what seems to, what I need, I can’t live without it. So that is very difficult to artificially change. But if we are practicing bhakti, both intellectually and experientially, bhakti changes our values.
Intellectually hearing the philosophy helps us really understand what is truly valuable and what is literally less valuable. And that intellectual understanding is the foundation, it is not the conclusion. But after that, we also start gaining experience.
Yeah, I thought that, you know, I can’t live without drinking tea or this or that. But then we immerse ourselves in kirtan, we have some katha, we do some seva, we feel such fulfillment. Somebody says, no, I can’t skip even one meal.
And then there’s some festival and we fast all day. And we are blissful. Hey, what happened? So maybe what I think I need is not what I really need.
So we also get experience. So both intelligence and experience, bhakti changes our values. So once we do that, automatically, even if we ask for material things, we will not ask with that much fervor.
There’s not that much agitation won’t be there if you get it or don’t get it. So artificially trying to stop it may again disconnect the heart from Krishna. But what we can focus on is making sure that we are practicing bhakti diligently, nourishing our intelligence and making our heart open to higher experience and the values will automatically execute.
So how do we make sure that also then not to use it as an excuse that, well, I have material desires. So what I’m going to keep praying and pushing for that it will be spiritualized, or we dovetail. And yeah, I guess my question, how do we still push ourselves and find that good? Yeah.
So this is where some, how do we push ourselves? Well, one of the best ways is to associate with serious devotees, to actually value spiritual things. We need to see devotees who have a lot less things we have than we have, and still have a lot more happiness than what we have. And you see, we need to associate with serious devotees.
You know what, as it is said, love matra sadhu sangha, that even a moment of devotees, serious devotees association helps why? Because in that moment, we will be infused, we can be infused with spiritual desires. So that’s why that association is important. And beyond that, ultimately, we can’t force anyone.
As I said, we can only help the unable, not the unwilling. If somebody wants to stay at a particular level, and that’s where they want to be, well, okay. Prabhupada created a platform for them in India through life and worship.
You stay connected, you do some patronage, come to the temples and experience the morning program. It’s pathway to come higher is there. But okay, except you where you are.
So we may not invest so much time and energy in that person. If we are leaders of we will focus more on those who are interested in growing. But others, they’re staying at that place.
That’s what they want, can accept them also. But from our perspective, we can’t really if we are going to stay here is going to take a long, long time for us to grow spiritually. So in principle, we need to accept that material desire should not be my top priority, although maybe my top priority right now.
But if somebody doesn’t even accept that, oh, yeah, material desire will become a lesser priority later. And when is that later? As they say, tomorrow has no end. So somebody doesn’t have a finite plan, somebody may take up a job, which requires 12, 14, 16 hours of work.
And now that’s what they’re going to do for the rest of their life. But if they plan that, okay, I do this kind of job for three or five years or whatever. And then I want to retire or take a lot less money.
Well, if they’re guided that way, then that is fine. But I think postponing our spiritual life because we have material desires, that is going to be counterproductive. So we may decide that, okay, I may not be able to practice spiritual life at this level, because right now all this material ambitions.
So maybe but I want to come from this level to this level. And I have a finite, I have a tangible plan for that. So then it is healthier, then it shows our earnestness for spiritual growth.
Thank you very much.