Where does the power of mantras lie – in letters or meaning or somewhere else?

[Class at Bhakti Center, New York, USA]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Om Nithyanandeshwara Nithyanandeshwara Nithyanandeshwari Nithyanandeshwari So we often talk about this as a challenge of how difficult say the chanting of Vedic mantras was, how precise it needs to be and comparison with that the chanting of Hare Krishna Maha Mantra is relatively easy. So Dheero vadati krishnaya Murkho vadati krishnave Ubhayastu purusamam punyam Bhavagrahi janatana So it is said that normally the Vishnu, the adjective Vishna, Vishnave but Krishna somebody may just take it that way Krishnaya, so instead of Krishnaya make it Krishnave grammatically it may be wrong but Bhavagrahi janatana the lord just looks at the emotion, the intention and he is satisfied with that So the we could get some rough understanding of why the chanting of the mantras is so precise say some of us may have been from software backgrounds or most of us know about programming and while programming if we make one mistake in the code sometimes the programme may just do the opposite of what we want so if there is some thread of logic where you have to put not, if you miss the not over there then instead of doing what it should do it will end up doing exactly the opposite of that similarly the mantras just as the programming code there is a whole technology because of which that programming code is associated with the way certain things will result at physical level so a device instead of say if something is programmed wrong, say nowadays Google is trying to have automatic running cars now if this car, if some programming goes wrong and it sees say it senses an obstacle and it senses an obstacle it should veer to the right, but instead if it veers to the left, a small change in the code it will just crash into that obstacle so like that at a material level just as there is sophisticated technology which if a small mistake in it will lead to a big consequence similarly the mantras are sound vibrations that are associated with higher powers in the universe and when those mantras are chanted wrong then those higher powers are actually invoked wrongly and then the result is that the effect may not come or the effect may come exactly the opposite now in our tradition Jiva Goswami analyses about mantras where is the power of mantras in general and where is the power specifically in mantras centred on the chanting of the holy names so broadly if we consider Mimamsa which is one of the systems of philosophy, they say there are two schools of thought in Sanskrit they are called as Varnavad and Spurutavad Varnavad means that the power if there is a sound vibration this is also a question in contemporary philosophy of language now where is the meaning of words situated is the meaning of the words situated in the letters of the word or is it situated in the mind of the speaker and the hearer so that means we may say that the meanings ok for a meaning I just go and look in the dictionary and I find the meaning of the word yes that’s true but sometimes words can have different meanings when I was in England I gave a class and after that I did some very lively question answer session the devotee who had organised the programme he was very happy and with a bright smile he came to me and says you killed it I said my God Allah what did I kill so that now killed it is a rhetorical way of saying that it’s from a hunting metaphor it comes you answered the questions right you did very well so now if I just go literally from the dictionary there can be many different meanings so the meaning of words is it situated only in the letters or is it situated in the minds of people so normally when we hear a word if sometimes the word has different meanings based on context we understand what meaning will apply where so the point is is the meaning of word stored only in the content or is it also stored in the context so Varanavad says that Varna is letters that the meaning is stored simply in the letters and if those letters are recited perfectly that’s all that matters Spotavad on the other hand says that Spota means explosion so what it means is that sometimes if somebody tells a joke and at one moment we are just hearing and next moment we start laughing what has happened over there at one particular moment the meaning dawns within us and when the meaning dawns that’s like an explosion inside oh I understood so if suppose somebody doesn’t understand the joke then everybody is laughing what happened why are you laughing so all of us heard the same set of words but unless the meaning was understood rightly the joke will not have the right impact and sometimes jokes also involve play of words like earlier said so why did Humpty Dumpty have a great fall because they had a great spring so here what has happened because they had a great spring so there is fall can mean falling down fall can refer to falling down fall can also refer to a season so here the meaning is stored not just in the content you also have to look at the context what is going on over here normally we associate one context but there might be some other context going on over there so basically Varunavad says that Varunavad holds mantras to be like formulas when we are using a formula we don’t need to know the meaning of the formula if I know for solving this sum I have to use E equal to MC square so this is C this is M and this will be the E so even if I don’t understand the whole theory of relativity if I just apply the formula I get the result so formulas they may also have some meaning but for using formulas we don’t necessarily need to know the meaning that’s why sometimes it’s formulaic, just do it like that it will work I may not understand how it works like when we use technology when we use cell phones how many of us know the electromagnetic waves and the transmission technology press this button, press this button and the call will go over there it’s a formula that we follow and the result comes so this is on contrast what Spotawise holds that mantras are not formulaic they are semantic units that there is meaning involved over there and to the extent we understand the meaning to that extent the effect is there so if say we come for a class and like earlier said if it’s a joke we don’t understand it, sound vibrations are vibrated but there is no impact over there so now this analysis that is it when we come to when we look at ordinary conversations there are both of these, there are semantic units which require comprehension and there are formulaic units which just use require application or usage results come, now mantras which category do they fall in are they formulas, say in a normal conversation even if we make some mistake say like for people whom English is not the first language it’s the second language or third language, they may speak English in a broken way but if there is an observer ok, I think you mean this I think you mean this, so in that case what happens with the context even if the formula is not right the communication takes place because the other person figures out what is being said so are mantras like that, are mantras like a formula or are mantras units of meaning so now in the traditional context, mantras especially there are the six systems of philosophy and in Karma Vimamsa it is considered that even the gods are servants of the laws of nature so that’s why when Krishna told the Vrajavasis that if we, if we do our duty that Indra is obliged to give rains so the gods don’t have sovereignty if the mantra is chanted right then if the duty is done the gods are obliged to give results like say if we hire a cab if we are ready to pay for the cab say I want to go here, the cab no I don’t want to go there, I won’t go there no, in some cities you have to go if you are going to be paid wherever your customer is told, your customer wants you to go, you have to go if somebody says you know, I will take only a person of this race and not of that race I will take only a person of this caste, not that caste that kind of discrimination is not there, if you are paid you have to provide it, similarly in Varanavad, the idea is mantras are just a combination of letters, if those letters are vibrated, the necessary result has to come the intent is not seen, the context is not seen, so that is one way of looking at mantras and in the Vedic understanding the mantras which are used for for invoking the gods or for getting some material results often they are seen as Varanavad, they are manifestations of Varanavad, so that’s why in the Vedas the precise recitation is considered extremely important when Rig Veda people would recite, they would recite it again and again and again to get the pronunciations right in contrast to these are the Puranas, in the Puranas, the recitation is not as important as the import and in fact in the first canto Prabhupada says in a paraponda, Suta Goswami was not perfect in recitation of the Vedic mantras but he knew their import and he spoke their import, so with respect to Vedas, sometimes we use the word Veda in a very inclusive sense to refer to the whole Vedic body of knowledge, but here I am using Veda in the specific sense to refer to the four Vedas, Rig Veda, Sam Veda, Vijan Veda and Atharva Veda, there the principle is that the mantras have to be chanted precisely so mantras are like technology I can use, if somebody is an internet service provider then once I use the internet, I can use the internet to find out how to murder someone I can Google that and Google will give results for that so it’s like that somebody chants a particular mantra, even if they are chanting it for destructive purposes the results will come over there and if they chant something wrong, the wrong results will come so in this case, he chanted the mantra wrong and the opposite result came in the Puranas, the recitation, the import is more important in the Puranas, it is the meaning that matters and that’s why in the Puranas, there are sometimes Prabhupada is quite nonchalant about textual issues, say sometimes some people say this verse is like this and some people say this verse is like this, one letter or something is different in some way, that’s perfectly ok the first verse of the Prahlad’s prayers the first verse so Prahlad is praying over there that my dear lord that all these great brahmajan, great devatas and the great sages they have offered you prayers and they have not been able to satisfy you how can I satisfy you when I am low born now in some renditions of the Bhagavatam, instead of gatayo there is matayo gatayo is the flow, matayo is the opinion, so with their opinions, with their glorification, they have tried to satisfy you, but they are not satisfied they are not able to satisfy you, how will I be able to satisfy you so this is a minor textual issue and traditionally whenever commentaries would be written at that time they would actually describe that right in the beginning there would be a preface, more like you could say, it’s primarily for scholars that ok this verse, in this manuscript I found it to be like this, this verse I found it to be like this, this verse I found it to be like this and then they accommodate some differences, when transcription when there will pathantar, pathantar means now we can just print books, we can xerox books but in the past people would have to write the books and in the writing, sometimes some mistake might happen, so pathantar bhed it is called from one replica to another replica when I make, some bhed may happen some change may happen, so at that time the commentators would look at when somebody is going to comment on a particular book, they would look at these different commentaries, or different books, different manuscripts and they would say ok this is said here like this, this is said here like this and eventually they would deem that this is the more authoritative version or they would explain with both versions, now there would be no major discrepancies because they would take care of that, but the point I am making is that as long as the meaning is conveyed, these literal specifics do not matter that much in Puranas the meaning is more important somebody is reciting verses also so then it is, they don’t recite is that it doesn’t matter that much once a person came to Srila Prabhupada in India and he was a proud pious Brahmin kind of person and he asked Prabhupada, so do your disciples know Sanskrit? So Prabhupada asked one of his disciples to chant the Govinda Adiposhyam prayers, they chanted and he said Swamiji their pronunciation is not good so Prabhupada said that pronunciation may not be good, but their application is good they are applying it, they are living it and that is what matters so here in the Puranas it is the import that is considered important Spotavada means when we communicate, as long as the meaning is conveyed, that is what matters now with respect to the names of God which is it that applies? Is it that the literal letters have to be recited properly? Or is it that the meaning has to be conveyed? Now Jiva Swami he explains both ways we want to chant the mantra properly so, but at the same time if somebody is not able to chant the mantra properly that is not held against them in some languages the sound Ra is not there only so then we chant Hale, Hale, Lam, Hale, Lam, Lam, Lam, Hale, Hale now Krishna is not going to hold that as a disqualification against them you cannot chant the mantras but Krishna will be benefiting them so from our side we try to chant it properly so he says that the power of the mantras especially connected with the Supreme they are neither in the letters they are in the letters and they are in the meaning also so as long as we are chanting properly if sometimes the pronunciation goes wrong that is ok but with respect to the mantras, Prabhupada also says that you don’t have to understand the language of the mantras you just hear the mantra, just recite the mantra you will get the benefit so if the pronunciation is not important if the meaning is also not important it is important but we are saying that it is not all important then where is actually the mantras potency stored he says the mantras potency is stored in Krupa in mercy it is Krishna who manifests his omnipotent power through the mantras so in formulas it is just in the arrangement of letters that the meaning is stored that the power is there in sentences semantic units it is in the comprehension that the meaning is stored but with respect to the chanting of the names of Krishna it is that in the mercy of the lord that the meaning is stored that the power is stored so just the literal recitation if it is faulty it doesn’t matter that much if one is trying to chant with a devotional attitude if one understands the meaning that is good but if one can’t understand the meaning still actually the lord sees the intention so basically a precise recitation would require some verbal skills if somebody doesn’t have that verbal dexterity then sometimes chanting some mantras would be very difficult there is a Chitra Kavita Vani Chitra Kavita Vani is you could say Rupa Goswami is having fun with words while glorifying Krishna so there is a verse which has only two letters in it it is described in Govardhan Leela so now there is one verse which has only one letter in it I don’t get all of it right also something like this so the only one sound is na in it and pronouncing this kind of verses it can be a tongue twister it is for those who can do it, it is great joy to do it but some people will not be able to do it so bhakti is not dependent on verbal ability if somebody can’t do it, they are not limited from practising they are not deprived of practising bhakti similarly understanding meaning that requires to some extent some intellectual ability bhakti is not dependent on intellectual ability also if somebody can’t comprehend they still have the intention to serve Krishna Krishna will see that intention Krishna will appreciate that intention and Krishna will give the reward so where is the potency of the mantra stored it is in Krishna’s mercy that when Krishna sees us trying to serve him with a devotional attitude he reciprocates by giving his mercy and when he gives mercy at that time the mantra has dramatic transformational power the transformational power of the mantra can be in two ways basically all of us have some conditionings which push us in a particular direction I tend to over eat, I tend to oversleep, I tend to get angry so the conditioning pushes me in a particular direction so now my free will is there by which I can push back our past conditionings they push us, they don’t force us we can push back but sometimes the push may be so great that for us to push back will be very difficult so the mantra chanting first what it does it in general the process of bhakti what it does is it increases our capacity to push back when we chant what happens even if the opposition comes, no even if I feel like getting angry even if I feel like feeling negative in any way, no I am going to do this so our capacity to push back increases by the practise of bhakti so that what happens is we get connected with Krishna and Krishna’s omnipotence helps us to push back against our conditionings secondly by the mercy of Krishna the power of the conditionings themselves goes down so they stop pushing us that much so in our growth towards spiritual advancement we can say there are two stages, one is conviction and the other is purification conviction means I am determined to do it no matter what the obstacle is, that is my pushing ability, my pushing power increases purification means the opposing power disappears so some of us might have been eating meat before but after we start practising bhakti, now if we are travelling in a plane and somebody next to us is taking meat we may not even feel tempted earlier we might have been craving for it, so what has happened the opposing power itself has gone away so Krishna’s mercy can come in terms of increasing our conviction, I am going to do this and it can come also in terms of eliminating decreasing or eliminating the opposition and both help us to move forward steadily in bhakti so the chanting of the mantras, sometimes we may feel that I am chanting but my mind is still agitated, yes the mind may be agitated but if we keep chanting as we keep chanting, as we develop a taste in chanting, even if the mind gets agitated our determination to get the mind back will increase, yes this chanting is so joyful, I want to do it even if the mind wanders, let me get it back mind wanders, let me get it back and after sometime as we keep practising bhakti the mind’s wandering itself will start decreasing because it will also get attracted to Krishna so now the chanting of the mantras, so this transformation in terms of our conviction increasing or the inner opposition decreasing this happens by the chanting but how does it happen, it is not mechanical, it is transcendental, so today I may chant the Hare Krishna mantra and I get so much taste, I feel chanting should never end tomorrow I chant and I feel chanting never ends chanting is supposed to get over sometimes we take out our beads from the bead bag, instead of 108 beads somebody put 1008 beads over it it starts getting over so we may do chanting in the same way on two days I may recite the mantras in the same way intellectually I am in the same frame of mind but the experience of chanting will not be the same, why? because it is not just because my mind is in different frame of mind, that is also possible, but even if my mind is in the same frame of mind even if I am in the same frame of mind today as I was yesterday still my experience of chanting will not be the same because Krishna’s mercy is involved over there and Krishna’s mercy is Svarat, it is completely independent, when and why he will bestow his mercy, we don’t know, now it is not that Krishna wants to withhold his mercy and not give it to us it is Krishna wants us to get the realisation that we are dependent on him, that we are not the ultimate doers so that’s why if you see in the Shikshashtakam, second verse says there is no rule in chanting niyamita smarane nakala but then the next verse says trunadapi sunijena tarorapi sahishna namalina maladena kirtaniya sadahari that actually you have to be humbler than a blade of grass you have to be more tolerant than a tree and you say this is very difficult to do first you say there is no rule, but then there are so many rules such a rule, you have to become so humble so tolerant, so what is going on actually the no rule is for starting chanting anybody can start chanting without any qualification but if one has to come to the level of kirtaniya sadahari to get the taste by which you can chant constantly for that we have to develop this humility and tolerance so the principle here is that when we develop this humility and tolerance then we are understanding it is, we connect with Krishna it’s like our consciousness if say electricity is flowing through a particular object if the object is like a conductor then electricity will flow very easily if the object is like an insulator, electricity will not flow at all so as long as we have ego in us at that time, our consciousness remains like an insulator so we chant, but the mantra doesn’t enter into us, the more humility develops, the more our consciousness changes from an insulator to a conductor and when it becomes a conductor, then the flow of mercy flows very smoothly and that’s how kirtaniya sadahari starts happening I’ll conclude with one last point that at a spiritual level, in terms of pleasing Krishna, it is only the intention that matters the verbal recitation doesn’t matter, the intellectual comprehension doesn’t matter, that is in terms of pleasing Krishna however while doing service in this world the material factors also matter for the spiritual purpose of pleasing Krishna no material factor matters but for the purpose of manifesting a result in the material world the material factors do matter if we want to do kirtan where we want to attract new people now somebody is going to sing very out of tune they are not good singers their singing may please Krishna but their singing may not attract people so if we want to do some service in this world we have to find out what is appropriate in this world when Srila Prabhupada in the last days was asked how will the Krishna consciousness movement spread, he said through organisation and intelligence now he didn’t say through the purity of your heart through the sincere chanting of the holy name, all this is required but to get results at a material level we have to have organisation we have to have practical planning we have to have intelligence without that the results will not come at the material level in Ramlila there is the story of the squirrel she was also carrying some small soil on her back in order to assist in building the bridge and some of the vanaras they said get out of our way, Lord Ram said that you are serving according to you are serving according to your capacity she is serving according to her capacity so I am pleased with both of you now from the point of view of Lord he was pleased with both but if the squirrel was building the bridge if the squirrel was carrying pieces of soil and getting it to build a bridge, how long would it take now we can say Krishna can empower even a squirrel to do wonderful things even a squirrel can move a mountain even a squirrel can bring a mountain and can do that but the mood of a devotee is not that a devotee demands Krishna’s miraculous intervention all the time that is not the mood of a devotee so if you want a result at a material level we have to have the material abilities or we have to engage those who have the material abilities the spiritual intention will always please Krishna irrespective of whether the results come or not at the material level but we are practising bhakti in the material world we are trying to share Krishna bhakti in the material world so we do have to consider the material appropriateness of things and that’s why for certain services if a particular devotee is good at that service then it is that devotee who will be engaged in that service and others may be good they have great intention and that is appreciated but if the service is meant to reach out to people then we have to have the appropriate blend of the material ability and the spiritual intention that way we will ensure that the service results not only manifest at the spiritual level in terms of pleasing Krishna but also manifest at the material level in terms of attracting people now the danger over here is that somebody who just has the material ability but does not have the spiritual intention they may become very impressive they may attract a lot of people some people may just be able to recite the Bhagavatam brilliantly do Bhagavata Katha but if they don’t have devotion then they will just be doing the externals and they will get the external result but the internal transformation may not be happening that’s why we cannot go only on the material results we cannot say that just because somebody is getting a lot of material results that means they must be great but we cannot go unmindful of the material side of the service also. When Arjuna fought the Kurukshetra war after hearing the Bhagavad Gita did Arjuna win the Kurukshetra war because of the knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita or because of the knowledge of archery that he had learnt throughout his life? What do you think? Was it because of the knowledge of Bhagavad Gita or the knowledge of archery? It’s both.
We could say that even if he did not know archery, Krishna could have empowered anybody else and they could have fought. That’s fine. But Arjuna practised archery throughout his life and became excellent in archery and that archery skill was used.
So the Bhagavad Gita’s knowledge gave the spiritual direction. The material execution was done by his skill and the combination of the spiritual direction and the material execution that produced the result of victory. Similarly, for us, if we want to do a particular service, we want to cultivate the spiritual intention but to get the result in the material world, we also have to develop the necessary material competence.
And that way, we’ll be able to get the results that Srila Prabhupada wants in terms of attracting many many people to Krishna’s lotus feet. So I’ll summarise. I spoke today about how the spiritual sound vibration relates with manifests at the material level.
How do the chanting of the mantras with our material senses, how does it exactly lead to transformation? So where is the potency of the mantras? One school says Varnavat, the meaning is in the letters itself. It’s like a formula. If you don’t understand it, you get the letters right, you get the result.
So Vedic mantras are like that. If you get a small, some pronunciation wrong, it’s like in a software code, the computer which is reading the software and executing it, the computer does not look at your intention or your meaning. It just looks at the code.
The code is saying something not instead of yes, then the computer will do, machine will do it exactly wrong. So the Varnavat school of thought is that the higher forces in nature, they are mechanical. And if we invoke them wrong, the opposite result will come.
So Spotavad holds that the meaning of mantras is stored in the, sorry, the power of mantras is stored in the meaning. It is only when we understand it. So Vedas were more like Varnavat.
The letter, precise recitation is important. In the Puranas, it is the understanding that is important. Even if the pronunciation is not that great, it is the application, comprehension and application that matters.
And if you come to the chanting of the mantras related with Krishna, the power is stored. There is precise, we try to recite the mantra well. We try to understand its meaning also.
But the essential thing is the intention. The power is in Krishna’s mercy. And because Krishna’s mercy is independent, so that’s why two days we may chant in the same way, but the result, the experience may not be the same.
So Krishna doesn’t withhold his mercy, but Krishna gives his mercy based on how our consciousness is. As long as we think we are the doers and we have the ego, then that makes our consciousness like a resistor or insulator which does not allow the current of mercy to flow. But when we develop humility, then our consciousness becomes like a conductor and Krishna’s mercy flows through it.
And for getting results in this world, we need to consider not only the spiritual intention, but also the material ability. Only then will the result come out. Just as Arjuna won the war by getting spiritual direction from the Gita and by getting the skill for material execution from his archery practise.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. Do we have a minute or two for questions? Okay, it’s fine.
We’ll stop. Thank you very much. Gandharashrimadbhagavatam ki Srila Prabhupada ki