Why people do bad things – and how to stop it

[Bhagavatam class on Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.08.07 at ISKCON, Sydney, USA]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Krishna. So good morning.
The pastime of Garga Muni expressing reservations about performing the sacrifice involving the naming ceremony of Krishna is being talked about. So, in the purport of Prabhupada states how if Kamsa becomes suspicious, he may attack Krishna with even greater malevolence and he may try to kill him and therefore Gargamuni is saying that I hesitate to perform this sacrifice. So, I will talk today on the theme of what makes people do bad things.
Often there is a question, why do bad things happen to good people? It’s a philosophical question and it addresses the problem of evil. But actually there is a more, there is a converse question also that why do people do bad things at all? And sometimes good people do bad things and sometimes bad people do heinous things. So, basically what is it that impels people to act in evil ways at times? So, there is a trigger and there is a cause and the two are different.
It’s like when there is a gun, when the trigger is pressed, the bullet may shoot and kill someone. But the cause of the death is not the pressing of the trigger. If the trigger had been pressed, but if there were no bullets in the gun, nothing would have happened.
So, we all face provoking situations in life. And we will all have people around us who will drive us mad. How dare someone do like this? So, now the triggers are unavoidable in everyone’s lives.
But how we react to those triggers, that is determined by what kind of bullets are present inside. So, everybody gets provoked and everybody responds to provocation. How they respond, the trigger comes, the trigger is pressed.
What comes out? And how it acts or how it hits? What is done? That is determined by what is inside. So, here if you look at this from Kamsa’s perspective, you can say, you know, my life is being threatened. This Kandev’s son is going to kill me.
So, it’s going to be his life or my life. Therefore, I have every right for my self-defence to end his life. He could argue that way.
Vasudev, just after their marriage, Kamsa was about to lop off the head of Devaki. At that time, Vasudev gives various kinds of reasonings. One of the points he makes is, she is a woman, she is your sister and she is on the day of her marriage.
Three are very strong reasons, each one of them for not doing anything offensive. Men are meant to protect women. And kings are meant to protect their citizens, especially those who are female citizens.
And she is not just a female citizen, she is your own sister, cousin sister, but still a sister. They were out of affection and bond, so much so that he was driving the chariot. And on top of that, it’s her day of wedding day.
Normally, if some happy occasion is there in someone’s life, at that time, even if there is some bad news, we don’t tell that news at that time. On an auspicious occasion, we don’t want to do anything inauspicious. On a happy occasion, we don’t want to be a bearer of bad news.
So, wedding is the time when a new phase of one’s life is beginning, practically a new life is beginning. And that time, to want to attack and kill someone, it’s brutal. It’s beyond brutal actually.
But none of these serve as deterrents for Kamsa. Why? Although there was a facade of affection, and we could say it was not just a facade, he genuinely cared for Devaki. But that care was genuine in the sense that emotion might have been there.
But how much or what is the nature of the relationship is not shown just by what we are ready to do for the relationship. It is also shown by what we are ready to give up for the relationship. So, he was ready to become a charioteer for his sister.
But when his life was threatened, he was ready to kill her immediately. So, as soon as the trigger came, the prophecy that her 8th child will kill, immediately all affection was forgotten, he was ready to kill. So, when we are triggered, when we are provoked, at that time, how we react, that shows what kind of bullet is there in our heart or what is the content of our heart.
So, Parikshit Maharaj, when he was cursed to die, because in the same Bhagavatam, he was cursed to die in 7 days. He did not take a sword out to kill Shringi. He accepted it.
Now, is that the only way to act? Not necessarily. Some other things can also be done. The Bhagavatam describes different responses in different situations.
The same Bhagavatam also describes how when Draupadi was dishonoured, Pandavas fought a war to redeem her honour. But the point is that how the triggers will come in everyone’s lives and how we respond to those triggers shows the content of our character. So, the actions which we go through in our life, at one level Kamsa might have seemed to be like a very loving brother, but when the trigger came, all the love disappeared.
There are self-obsessed people. That means, not only I first, but I only. I alone matter and others matter only to the extent they can give me some enjoyment.
Otherwise, no matter at all. So, it’s like everybody in general in the material consciousness is an I specialist. I specialist, not EYE, but I. I first.
But, whereas this is at one level natural, but even people who are self-absorbed are not necessarily destructive towards others. So, now, the same activity which can seem terrible to people at one level can seem actually enjoyable for people at another level of consciousness. Just now, before I came for the class, I was talking with a devotee who met with a car accident.
And he was driving on the road and suddenly a raccoon came on the way. And as that raccoon came, he tried to steer off because he didn’t want to hit the animal. And because of that, he hit a truck and got injured.
And the police came and told him, you should have hit the raccoon. He said, no, I cannot. I could run over that raccoon.
It would have killed him. He said, you would have killed yourself. So, somebody may be so sensitive that even at the risk of one’s own life one doesn’t want to hurt somebody else.
There are others who actually delight in causing pain. There are sadists, people who get joy in seeing others in pain. Burgari is an example of such a person.
He got joy. Everybody needs a sense of control. Now, how we get the sense of control? Some may get it by putting a smile on someone else’s face.
And some may get it by seeing others breathing in pain. And seeing that I have the power to cause this pain to this person. So, this is the difference between sattva-muna and tamo-muna.
Everybody wants pleasure. Everybody wants a sense of control. Everybody wants to do things.
But how we direct it? So, when the sense of control is directed by the mode of goodness, we try to use whatever control we have to do good to others. When it’s in the mode of ignorance, we use that sense of control to hurt others. And get joy therein.
So, Kamsa, here, he, just the trigger, even without having any definitive knowledge that Krishna is the son of Devaki, even before that, he has sent the demons like, he has sent three demons already. He has sent Putana, Trinavarta and Shaktasura. So, just on some, it’s not even really tangible suspicion.
He just gave a blanket instruction to Putana, that whichever children are born in this time, newborn in this time, just kill them. So, it’s so brutal. It’s like, say, suppose, we suspect that there is some criminal, or somebody whom we think is a criminal, is hiding in a particular locality.
And then, instead of finding out that person, you just say, okay, let us burn the whole locality. And everybody is killed over there. There is no sense of proportion at all.
And then, when Putana was killed, at that time, his suspicion started becoming stronger. Nobody could have killed Putana. So, maybe this boy who killed Putana must be the one who is prophesying to kill.
Then he sent Trinavarta, he sent Shaktasura, and both of them were destroyed. So, now, he is saying that, Gargamuni is saying that, if I perform the sacrifice, the Indian sacrifice, then he will become almost convinced. And then, he would exert all his forces to try to kill Krishna.
So, there is a trigger and there is a cause. And trigger is what pivots. But what gets activated is determined by the cause.
What is there inside? In the Bhagavad Gita also, Krishna differentiates this when he is talking about lust, karma. He says that karma is present not in the sense objects, but in the senses, the mind and the intelligence. This means that sometimes we may see a particular sight, we may see someone improperly dressed or whatever, and some desire may come up within us.
But that person is not the cause. That person is the trigger. The cause is the desire that is present in our own heart.
Same way with anger. When we say, that person did this and that made me angry. So, yes, that person did something, that is a trigger.
But how I respond? Some people may respond by wanting to have a reasonable discussion. Some people may just respond by exploding. Some people may respond by backbiting.
Some people may respond by just sinking into self-pity. Oh, everybody takes me on a ride, everybody treats me like a doormat. So, the trigger, what response will come, depends on what is present inside.
And so the cause of our action is different from the trigger for that action. And the cause is largely the more that we are situated in. Goodness, passion, ignorance.
And the trigger is a particular event, or particular sight, or particular behaviour from someone that comes along. And if we are to change our behaviour, or if we want to change other people’s behaviour, going to change society, what is required? Changing individual is the way to ultimately change society. So, we see that this can work at three levels, broadly speaking.
One is that if you do wrong, you will be punished. If you get triggered, suppose somebody does something, A does something, and B gets angry, and B attacks A, physically, then the police will punish, police will catch. So then, that punishment, after getting triggered, that can act as a deterrent.
Angry, I feel like beating you up. Therefore, I will not do it. The consequence of our actions, after we get triggered, can act as a deterrent.
And that’s important. A deterrent is required. But, there are always people who think that maybe I can just escape the consequence.
You know, I can’t beat you in your face. I can beat you in private when nobody is looking. And then if nobody comes to know who did the assault, then I’ll get away with it.
Get back to it. So, just the knowledge of consequence is not an adequate deterrent. It is an important deterrent, but it is not adequate.
The second could be that somebody might try to remove the triggers. I get angry, I blast at people, I do bad things, I don’t want to do it, so I just avoid the triggers. Now, it’s good if we specifically know certain triggers are there, we try to avoid them.
Say, for example, if I’m going on the road and I know there is a bump or there is a pothole on the road, then I try to avoid that. So that I don’t get jerked. I don’t get joyed.
So, we can try to minimise the triggers that we are exposed to. And actually, spiritual culture is a culture which tries to minimise triggers. The idea is that in materialistic culture, people get a sense of self-worth by how much I can trigger others, how much I can dress in a way that others will be attracted to me, others will be agitated by seeing me.
So, in spiritual culture, we don’t want to do that. So, both from the individual and from others, we try to minimise the triggers. Minimise the triggers.
If a person is an alcoholic, then the alcoholic’s house is next to a bar. Then that trigger will make him very vulnerable. So, if a person is serious about giving up alcohol, he just has to move away, change the house.
He cannot stay near a bar like that. So, we try to minimise the triggers. But, this alone is not enough.
This is the second step. This is also not enough. We have to address the cause.
The cause is the impurity in the heart. And that impurity has to be removed. This is where Bhakti Yoga comes into the picture.
So, Bhakti Yoga is meant to purify our hearts of the causes of lust, of anger, of greed. So, based on that, say, if somebody is greedy and they see somebody walking along with a lot of jewels and a lot of ornaments, a lot of wealth on them, nobody says, this is a dark street, I can just jump on them, I can steal money, I can become wealthy. But a person who is in goodness, who is practising Bhakti, the desire also does not come in the mind.
So, the most effective cure for stopping people from doing bad things, stopping ourselves from doing bad things, is purification. So, we talked about dealing with, why do people do bad things? Because they are triggered. But not just because they are triggered, but because they have the anartha, they have the contamination, they have the weakness in their hearts.
So, the weakness in the heart plus the trigger is what makes us or anyone do bad things. And the way to deal with it is at three levels. That is, first is, try to remember the consequence of getting triggered.
Second is, try to remove the triggers or minimise the triggers. Third is, address, try to purge the heart of the cause, of the impurity. Now, among these three, there is a different set of combination that will work for different people.
That means, that some people, they may just not know how serious a problem this is. They do something wrong, they realise the consequence, some people may want to give it up, but they are in the midst of triggers and just can’t resist. Then help them, deal with the triggers, address the issues, they will be better off.
Some people, they don’t want to feel that kind of desires, but somehow they don’t know what to do. If we don’t know about bhakti, actually, when our lower desires come, the great inner tension comes when I have good conscience and bad desires. If I have bad conscience and bad desires, there is no inner struggle.
Why? Because there is nothing to tell me that we should not do this. On the other hand, if I have good conscience and good desires, again there is no struggle. But when I have good conscience and bad desires, then it’s a great struggle.
It feels as if the desire is tormenting us from within. It’s like, when the desire comes, some of you may have seen an elephant god, it’s a sharp object, and it just goads the elephant, come on, move this way, move that way. The rider of the elephant, the mahout, uses that to control the elephant.
So when desires start tormenting us, they goad us and it’s almost unbearable at that time. When good people do bad things, by good people I mean people who have strong conscience, if they do bad things, it is not because they find doing that thing so pleasurable. It is because they find resisting it so unbearable.
It’s two very different things. This is so enjoyable, I want to do it whatever the cost. But not doing it, it causes me so much torment, that I do it just to get relief from the torment.
Initially, it’s said about drug addicts, that first when they take drugs, they may take it to go high, but as they keep taking it, the desire for the craving for the drug starts goading them. And then they take the drug, not because it makes them feel so good, but because without it, they don’t even feel normal. So I don’t take it to get high, I take it to just feel normal.
So when this happens, that the bad desire is goading us from within, and then the good conscience is ignored. But what can you do? Goaded, goaded, goaded. So actually, remembrance of Krishna, that is what protects.
If somebody is goading me in the back, come on, do this, do this, then the pain is so much, I don’t know what to do. At least if somebody is goading me from outside, I can try to run away, I can try to turn and fight. But if somebody is goading me from inside, inside my consciousness, the goad is coming and piercing me, what to do at that time? It’s actually a very painful situation.
And at that time, Krishna acts like the shield. If the desire is goading us, come on, do this, do this, we remember Krishna, then that goad may still hit, but remembrance of Krishna acts like a shield. That means that remembrance of Krishna gives us some shelter, it gives us some satisfaction.
See, what is the goad? Do it, do it, do it. You will get so much pleasure. If you don’t do it, there will be so much pain.
But when we remember Krishna, our consciousness gets diverted from both the promise of the pleasure and the pain of the deprivation. Because we get satisfaction somewhere else. And once we get that, then resisting it becomes easier.
So for those who have good conscience, but bad desires, they need to take shelter of Krishna very strongly. And that way, the impurities will be controlled and they will gradually get eliminated. And some people may be vulnerable because they are triggered.
So, I gave a talk at Google a few months ago in Silicon Valley in America. So there, I was quoting an experiment which had been done in Google itself. What was that? They were finding that there is a large amount of obesity among the employees.
And a major cause of obesity was that they were eating too many chocolates, various kinds of sugar candies. So, what they did as an experiment when they had the cafeteria, they just, earlier all the chocolates and the sweets, they were in transparent containers. So anybody who went in, they could see it.
So they just covered all the candies with paper. And not paper and describing what it is. They basically changed the container so that they are non-transparent.
They found just by this, over the next six months, 33% chocolate consumption decreased. 33% is one third. That is, for most people, they see, oh, this is nice, let me eat it.
They go in, they don’t see it, the desire doesn’t come. So, decreasing the triggers is not unimportant. Sometimes some desires, some indulgences seem heartless.
Once a week, what is the big problem? I can take it once. But they take one, two, three, and daily it becomes a problem. But the temptation itself is not visible.
It is still there, if somebody wants it, they will go and take it. There are some desires which come from within and pull us outside. When I get the desire from inside, then I will go and seek where the object is and I will enjoy it.
There are some other times when we see the object and the desire comes. So these are circumstantial desires or stray desires, which just come. And if it is easy to indulge, you will indulge.
If it is not, okay, let it be. It doesn’t matter so much. So, by minimising the exposure to triggers, self-control can be made much easier.
So, that is also an important principle. So, for those who have good conscience, but they just seem to have weak willpower. As soon as they see temptation, then they start becoming weak.
So, just minimise the exposure to temptation in whatever way we can. But there are some people who just have a bad conscience. That means they do bad things and they don’t even feel bad.
And for them, so we could call this as purification, regulation and retribution. Retribution is punishment. So, the three ways to deal with wrongdoing.
Purification is get rid of the impure desires within the heart. Regulation means minimise the exposure to the triggers. And retribution is punishment for the wrongdoing that has been done.
So, for some people who just don’t have a conscience, their consciousness has become so weak, so distorted, that they don’t feel bad also on doing anything wrong. So, for them, recommending the first or the second is not going to work. For them, they need the third.
There are people who need to be punished. And Kamsa falls in that category. He is a person who practically had no conscience at all.
Had no conscience at all. And there are people who are remorseless, people who are heartless, conscienceless. Then trying the first and the second methods on them is actually not only stupid, it can be suicidal.
Because they will, they will just use that as a licence to destroy. So, that means for some people, in this lifetime, the Tamogodha may be so strong that basically trying to purify yourself or trying to regulate, this is more Sattvic. But if the lower modes are very strong, then it may just not work.
Sometimes some people, lower modes may be strong, but their conscience may be good. I am just pulled to do this, but I don’t want to do this. But if people don’t even feel like, I don’t want to, they don’t even feel that this should not be done.
Then, at that time, the consequence has to be given. I conclude with this point that, so, there are, to stop people from doing bad things, there are broadly two methods. There is Shastra and there is Shastra.
Shastra is weapons. And Shastra is scripture. So, the first and the second methods is purification and regulation.
They are what Shastra teaches. Okay, chant Hare Krishna. Worship the deity.
You will get purified. Avoid exposure to sense objects. That’s what Bhagavad Gita also teaches.
So, Shastra is helpful for purification and regulation. But sometimes, there is a retribution that is required. And for that, Shastra is not enough.
Shastra is required. Shastra means weapons. So, weapons means, that’s why, there are Brahmanas who give education, but then there are Kshatriyas who impose discipline.
And Kshatriyas are meant to punish. Kshatriyas cannot, as a matter of principle, be forgiven. Kshatriyas have to take action.
If somebody has done a grievous wrongdoing, and we forgive them, if they are not even remorseful, then they will counter-attack. They will actually do the same thing again. They will leave a trail of victims behind them.
They will keep victimising people. If they will stop that, then Kshatriyas are involved, who take action. So, comes this kind of person, who is demonic.
And he will have to be punished. And how that happens will be described in the future chapters, future sections of this Bhagavad Gita. So, I’ll summarise.
So, I spoke about what makes people do bad things and how to stop that. So, we see that there are some people who heartlessly do bad things. Some people delight in causing pain to others, in torturing others.
Some other people, they may want to avoid causing pain to others, even if it causes pain to them. Somebody may want to avoid hitting an animal on the road, let themselves meet with an accident. Somebody may just delight in riding over animals, seeing the animal writhing in pain.
So, what makes this difference? So, we discussed that. Some people say, he made me angry, that’s why I did like that. No, she did like that, that’s why I did like that.
So, when we say this, we are as if saying that that person was the cause. But that same person, that same behaviour may lead to a different response to someone else. So, that other person’s behaviour is not the cause, it is a trigger.
So, when a trigger is pressed, what comes out depends on what is there inside the gun. So, how we react to triggers based on what is there in our hearts. And people in goodness respond, they want a sense of control by giving joy to others.
People in ignorance want a control by giving pain to others. So, broadly the modes determine how we react to triggers. And I talked about three levels.
First is that when people do wrong things, how can they be stopped? By knowledge of consequence. Knowledge of consequence or experience of consequence. This is terrible.
If I beat up this person, police will come and put me in lock up. I don’t want that. So, that may deter them.
But for some people who are evil, that will be no deterrent. Another could be that if people have good conscience but bad desires, then there is inner pain. And the way to deal with that inner pain is only spiritual.
When we absorb ourselves in Krishna, then initially we may enjoy because this is so irresistibly pleasurable. But later on we may indulge because resisting it becomes so unbearable. So, when the gold is piercing us from within, it’s very painful.
We just get to get our consciousness out of the realm of matter. In Krishna, absorption, Krishna offers us that. So, second level could be that we remove the triggers.
I talked about in Google, they just decreased the exposure to sweets and people’s sweet consumption went down. So, third is that we actually purify the heart. When we remember Krishna, the lower desires go away because we get a higher satisfaction.
So, we combat at these three levels. Purification, which removes the cause in the heart. Regulation, which minimises the exposure to triggers.
That is what a spiritual culture is meant to do. And retribution, where people are given consequences for their actions, which reminds them of that I should not do this. So, generally people in goodness will respond to the first two.
But people in the lower modes, that is ignorance, will leave the third. So, in a well-administered society, there has to be Shastra and Shastra. Shastra tells us about how to deal with purification and regulation.
And Shastra provides retribution. And in that way, bad people can be stopped from doing bad things. And good people can be saved from doing bad things.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. Are there any questions or comments? Yeah.
So, when devotees do bad things, why does that happen and what can be done about it? Actually, devotee is a very stretchable term. What happens is we define devotees when they start, we define a person as devotee when they start doing certain external activities. They start coming to the Hare Krishna.
They start wearing a devotee dress. This is good. But how much the heart has become devotional, that is not known by these externals.
And the process itself is potent. But we all come from different backgrounds. Some people may be from goodness.
Some people may be from ignorance. And some people may be from goodness but they may be very self-righteous. We all have certain backgrounds.
And Bhaktivinoda Thakur says we need to associate with like-minded devotees. We need general association. We respect devotees.
But when it comes to trusting, then we have to be discriminating even in devotee association. So, sometimes the past conditionings pop up and devotees may do certain bad things. And especially if somebody is proud or arrogant, then sometimes our philosophy becomes the tool by which they boost their arrogance.
That means, this is the right thing. Anyone who is not doing this is wrong. This has become very judgemental and condemnatory.
So, sometimes the same philosophy which is meant to help us deal with our anarthas can perpetuate our anarthas. So, if such a thing is happening, there are probably three possibilities. One is that person is hurting us and we just move away from that person if it’s possible.
Let Krishna deal with the situation. That person is hurting us and is not only hurting us, but hurting many other people also. Then, we may have to report to some authority and we have to take some action.
But that is the third step. Second step could be just talk to that person. Sometimes some people may be desensitised to the consequences of their actions.
If they realise, this is causing much trouble to this person, I will not do it. So, either we move away from that, we communicate to help them correct or we just report to someone. But sometimes some actions may be grievously wrong and action may be required and if we don’t do it, it will become negligence on our part.
So, devotees by their past conditionings may do certain things and sometimes the devotees themselves need to be protected from their past conditionings. If they want to fight against those conditionings. Otherwise, if they are not ready to fight, then others need to be protected.
That’s why the principle of respect, sensitivity that is important. At the same time, we want to be sensitive not just to that person, but we want to be sensitive to other people also and how that person’s actions are affecting others. So, there has to be a balanced way.
The way to find the balance is by an attitude of service. In this situation, Krishna, how best can I serve? This person is acting like this and what is my service in this situation? If we keep this service attitude, then we can avoid becoming hypercritical or condemnatory of that person. This person is also a soul, but currently the conditionings are such that they need trouble.
So, what can I do to serve this person and serve others in the community? Can sir’s attitude in Krishna can guide us how to move forward? Okay. So, the question is that sometimes the devotees may practise for many years and still they may get triggered. So, does that mean that they are not getting purified or what does it mean actually? Not necessarily.
Sometimes, just like bad karma may come upon us in the form of a lot of problems. So, we go through phases of bad karma in which this goes wrong, that goes wrong, that goes wrong. So, karmic reactions can come sometimes as external sufferings.
Sometimes karmic reactions can also come as internally increased desires. That is also a consequence. When we do a particular activity, an alcoholic takes alcohol, one consequence is that liver may get spoilt.
Another is also that the desire becomes stronger to drink alcohol. So, by our karma, sometimes we may go through phases when the desires shoot up. And there may sometimes be no external trigger also.
It just happens. So, if at that time a person who has been practising for many years, suddenly they start getting triggered. What do you say? You know, a devotee is one year old, he cannot resist this trigger.
He has been practising for 20 years, he can’t resist this trigger? What is the use of your practise of bhakti? It’s not like that. We all go through phases. Sometimes we may be very vulnerable.
So, if we have strong devotional connections, a strong connection with devotees, then that person may be able to talk with some senior devotee friend or some senior devotee. And then, okay, this is a phase, maybe I have to take a little low profile, don’t expose myself to triggers at all. Retreat and absorb myself in chanting, absorb myself in Shastra study.
And that phase will go away. So, that’s for the individual. But if somebody else is going through that, then we don’t have to become too judgemental.
If that is hurting others, some action needs to be taken. But we don’t see that, we don’t have to say that all the past practise was hypocrisy or something like that. No.
Past practise was there and that did lead to purification. But sometimes desires may hit a person. And then that’s why they may get deviated for some time.
But when they come back, they’ll continue Krishna Bhakti. So, we have to see that sometimes desires rising up may not just be because of the triggers. It may also, and it’s not just the what is there in the heart, but rather sometimes the combination.
Like say, if you consider Ajamil. Now, his fall, was it intentional or was it unintentional? Ajamil’s, yeah, it was, initially it was unintentional. He did not plan to go to look at someone and get some titillation by looking at it.
So, initially it was unintentional. But afterwards, when he acted on it and he started, abandoned his wife, he abandoned his parents, surely at that time others would have tried to give good advice. But he did not listen.
So, it was circumstantial to begin with. But it was, became intentional afterwards. With Parikshit Maharaj, he had no disrespect for Brahmanas.
But he did something wrong at that time. See, you know, you’re just thirsty. Why would you go and put a snake on a sage’s body because of that? A little excessive.
But he had no bad intentions. So, for him, it was just entirely circumstantial. So, so basically, sometimes, now why does this happen? By karma, one may be putting past karma.
Of course, these are great characters and then Bhagwat, we won’t, we won’t be accurate if we say just past karma. But we are using an analysis, analytical framework and using examples over here for that. Sometimes, by circumstances, somebody may be put in a situation where the trigger becomes prominent and they themselves are vulnerable at that time.
So, we shouldn’t judge others. We shouldn’t condemn others. But at the same time, we have our standards.
And at the moment also, we have some standards. So, certain actions may need to be taken so that those standards are protected. But we don’t have to judge or condemn others.
Yes, Pramukh? Questioner 2 Yeah. Questioner 2 Yeah. So, sometimes, we may attribute to Prabhupada that statements he never made.
Or sometimes, we may even quote Prabhupada selectively to justify what we want to do. So, how can we faithfully follow the spiritual master? Yeah, it’s a difficult question. But I would say that following the spiritual master is not necessarily like following one line.
The tradition is not just one line of thought. It’s more like a circle or an umbrella. And there are many different ways in which Prabhupada served Krishna.
Many different projects that he inspired. Many times, he had different moods. So, as long as we are under the umbrella of Prabhupada, that is fine.
Now, I may want to be on this side of the umbrella. Somebody may want to be on the other side of the umbrella. That is fine.
Somebody may want to just do guru’s tuition. They’ll quote all the quotes of Prabhupada on guru’s tuition. Somebody else may say, Prabhupada wanted us to study the books.
You want to create educational systems for that. You study Shastra. You’re distributing books, but first read the books.
That’s also fine. See, there are principles and there are preferences. So, I may prefer to do book distribution.
Or I may prefer to study Shastra. And I may quote Prabhupada to support my point of view. That is fine.
But when I make the preference into a principle, and I say, this alone is following Prabhupada, and anybody who is not doing this is deviant. Then, when the preference is made into a principle, then it becomes fanatical. So, because we all have our own backgrounds, our own natures, and we can’t wish them away.
So, each of us will receive Prabhupada based on what our consciousness is. And certain aspects of Prabhupada will resonate with us. But, if I use it to say that my way is the only right way, I alone understand Prabhupada and everyone else is a deviant.
Then, that becomes fanatical. So, that sometimes happens when we feel very strongly about a particular issue. Some devotees may be very conservative, some devotees may be very liberal.
And the conservatives may say that the liberals are deviating. And the liberals can sometimes say, the conservatives, they just don’t understand. So, the liberals can be liberals.
There was a time when Prabhupada was liberal. Actually, to use the word liberal for any follower of Srila Prabhupada is not true. Because even the most liberal follower of Srila Prabhupada follows standards that would be considered a very conservative mainstream society.
So, the words themselves bring certain connotations with them. And it’s best to avoid them. To not, what do you say, to label a dog and then hang the dog.
That sort of thing starts happening. So, now sometimes, certain actions may just be outside the umbrella. And that time, it may need to be pointed out.
So, that has to also be done in a very respectful way. Preferably, it is done privately. Not publicly.
A big problem comes among devotees who have disputes is that they don’t talk with each other, they talk about each other. A doesn’t talk with B and B doesn’t talk with A. A talks with C, D, E, F, G, everyone else. And B talks with J, K, L, M, N, O, P. And the whole conflict gets multiplied by that.
So, it’s more that we all will quote Srila Prabhupada because he is our authority, but we also need to have a broader understanding of Srila Prabhupada’s mood. Which comes not just by quoting, but by reading Prabhupada systematically, in context. So, otherwise, we can just, you know, search Vedabase and find this quote, this quote, this quote and say this is the point.
And along with that, we also have to see that Prabhupada had a purpose. The purpose was to share Krishna’s message with others. So, is that purpose being served or not? Sometimes we may we may quote Prabhupada and actually defeat Prabhupada’s purpose.
And that can happen on the liberal side, but that can happen on the conservative side also. So, it is to the extent that we see Prabhupada’s specific quotes in the light of his broad not just teachings, but the broad purpose with which he gave those teachings. Then, that distortion can be avoided.
Otherwise, selective quoting can just lead to wanting to using the quotes to bash each other. Actually, when in all relationships, there are ego issues. And if scripture becomes like a tool for one-upsmanship in ego battles, it becomes very distasteful.
So, I want to prove I am better than you. You want to prove that I am better than me. And then, both of us quote scripture.
So, you are not using scripture to go closer to Krishna. Scripture becomes a tool for one-upsmanship. So, I quote scripture to prove you are wrong.
You quote scripture to prove I am wrong. So, then the purpose gets defeated. So, if such a thing is happening, it’s very sad.
It’s just best to keep a distance from that and do our service to Krishna. In general, if we keep serving Krishna, over a period of time, actions speak louder than words. And people start saying, yes, service is happening.
People are coming towards Krishna. And then, sometimes, if the criticism is just becoming too much, then just basically, under the radar, keep doing things. And gradually, as results come, then people start appreciating.
Does that address the question? One last question. So, when a portion of our intelligence is actually occupied by lower desires, and then that becomes stronger, at that time, we may do some wrong things, we may offend devotees. So, how to deal with that situation? Yeah.
Again, sometimes, when these desires pop up, it will be almost impossible to resist. It’s not impossible. It may appear impossible at that time.
The key thing is, if you consider the graph of our consciousness versus time, there are, if you consider the lower desires becoming high, it happens occasionally. And in between, the consciousness is not that bad. So, what we do when those desires shoot up, may sometimes not be in our control.
But what we do during the intermediate periods is very much in our control. So, if at that time we are taking shelter of Krishna, trying to serve Krishna nicely, then, we are getting connected with Krishna, we are getting strengthened, we are getting purified. And then, in the future, when those desires shoot up, we’ll be better positioned to resist them.
So, first thing is, no matter what happens, we never become so disheartened that we stop practising Bhakti. Thinking that, oh, I’m so fallen, I can’t practise. We may fall down, but we don’t have to fall away.
Fall down means, we fall from the standards. Fall away means, we give up the path. So, we should, first is, never give up.
Even if the spikes come and the tentacles fall down, just keep moving. And then, when the desires are shooting up, at that time, how do we deal with it? First thing is, we try to create some defensive barrier. That means, if the desires shoot up, it’s not that they stay for a very long time.
They are there, and if somehow, during that period, we can tolerate, I don’t need to do this. So, like alcoholics say, that the desire, the person may have decided to give up alcohol, the recovering alcohol. But suddenly, the desire comes up.
Now, if they have kept alcohol in their fridge itself, just go and eat it, drink it at that time. But they are completely removed. Then, that means, they have to go to a bar, and the bar is some distance away.
They get into their car, go to the bar, and as they are travelling, I don’t need to, I don’t want to do this. So, indolence comes back. So, like that, if there is some distance or some barrier created between us and the indulgence, then, that helps in overreaction happening with it.
So, if I find that, under certain pressure situations, I get angry, and I lash out at devotees, or I do something which is improper, then, when I see that happening itself, I take preventive action. I may decide, okay, now, my mental pressure is becoming high now. So, I need a break now.
So, we may just decide, let me chant a few rounds, let me hear some cute turns, let me try to get this down, get out of the negative zone. So, that kind of protection through distance, through creating some barriers also helps. And, more importantly, is having good association.
Actually, if we have even one devotee in our life, whom we can share our hearts with. Normally, we look at everyone through our mind. That means, if somebody starts speaking very sweetly with us, the mind says, what does this person want? Why is he speaking so sweetly with me? So, what happens, we look at everyone through the mind.
But, if we trust even one devotee very strongly, then, we don’t look at that devotee through the mind, we look at our mind to that devotee. My mind is saying, do this, but this devotee is saying, do this. I didn’t think about this point.
So, if we have even one devotee like that, whom we trust nicely, that association is a great, great blessing of Krishna in our life. And, if we can talk with that devotee, and that devotee gives us some perspective, gives us some understanding, tells some philosophical point, and then, we can resist that phase. So, that way, through perseverance in the practise, no matter what happens, through prevention by creating some distance, and through some close association, which gives us a better perspective of things, before the desire becomes overbearing, then, by that, we can resist the desires, when they become stronger.
Did I answer your question? So, thank you very much.