Gita Study Mumbai 2013 17.20-28 How Om Tat Sat spiritualizes Yajna, Dana and Tapa

Thank you very much. So, dātavyaṁ itiya dānaṁ, earlier it was yashtavyaṁ itiye mana, because it is to be done. So, dātavya means it is to be given, worth giving.
Diyate anupakāriṇe, anupakāriṇe means, one doesn’t, sometimes we do some good to others and we remind them. Maine tumhare liye kiya tha, yaadhe tumhe? So, you know, that is the idea, that basically, what, whatever we do for others, we are using that as a, as a chip for emotionally manipulating and controlling others. Deshe kāle che pātre che.
Now, if you do something for others, yes, it is natural for us to expect some reciprocation, but constantly reminding that, is a way of actually alienating others. It doesn’t really lead to any deepening of the relationship. Tad dānaṁ sāttvikaṁ smṛtam.
So, that is dāna, which is in sattva-guṇa. Then he’ll describe, yat tu pratyupkārārthaṁ phalaṁ uddhiṣya vāpunah diyate ca parikliṣṭhaṁ tad dānaṁ rāja-saṁsmṛtaṁ. So, when one does with pratyupkārārthaṁ, I have done, you should do this for me, and I want you to accept some phala from that.
And when one feels that there is no pratyupkārārthaṁ coming, there is no phala coming, then there is parikliṣṭhaṁ. One feels, there is so much trouble in giving this, what is the reason why I should give this? I don’t want to give this. But somehow, one feels either pressurised, or because of social prestige, or because of some other factors, because one has to give.
So, such is in the mode of passion. tad dānaṁ rāja-saṁsmṛtaṁ And I will discuss all three together a little bit more. adeṣa-kāleya-dānaṁ apātrebhyascha-dīyate asatkṛtam avajñātam tattāmasamudhāritaṁ So, without any consideration of time, place, or a worthiness of the candidate, asatkṛtam avajñātam, so when one gives without respect to the person also, that is tāmasam.
So, if a drunkard is at a bar, and then there is a beggar outside the bar, and that beggar, the drunkard says, tu bhi kya ād rakhega, ye le ek bottle, and he gives charity to him. So, this is tāmasic charity. The whole idea of charity is bestowed in such a way that one is giving something harmful and thinking that one is doing something helpful.
So, now, the Bhagavad Gita, if you see earlier, it talked in 12.11 about giving charity for a good cause. So, the Gita’s position is not that all charity is bad, but it is also that we have to use our intelligence while giving charity. And the purpose of charity is to, from our perspective, it is to create a culture of selflessness.
We are all self-centred. So, by giving charity, we create a culture of selflessness within us. Some people say that, when they say that, actually, I want to give charity, you know, what to speak of 50%? I want to give more than 50%.
But when I earn this much money, when my salary becomes this much, then I’ll give 55%. But till then, don’t even ask me for 5%. So, what happens is, now whether the people will actually give 55% later, we don’t know.
And even if they give 55%, the point is not that charity is an act that should be done. Actually, charity is a habit that should be cultivated. Because it’s a disposition of the mind that has to be made.
That whatever I earn, a part of it should go to Krishna. Actually, all of it is given by Krishna only to me, a part of it should go to him. So, when people reserve charity for special occasions, when they give big charity, that is good.
But then by that, they don’t necessarily create this culture of charity. So, charity is meant to, yes, it’s not just an act to be done, but a habit to be cultivated. Just like with respect to other activities of devotional activities.
We don’t just remember Krishna when we go to dhams or on festival days. We may do it regularly. The same way with respect to charity.
So, within us, it should create a culture of selflessness. And like all other devotional activities, this also should be done regularly. So, how much percentage a person can give, that will vary according to time, place, circumstance.
Now, everybody may not be able to give the same percentage, depending on that. That is okay, according to time, place, circumstance. But the important point is that it’s a habit to be cultivated.
And yes, this is what I should give. And in general, when people give charity, what it does is, generally speaking, we are always concerned with our problems, our desires, our ambitions. And we want to use all the resources we have to fulfil our things.
But when we give charity, what happens? It expands our circle. It makes us think of things beyond ourselves. And that’s why it’s also good, you know, not just to give charity.
Charity is one aspect of it. But the whole purpose of Krishna consciousness is to expand our consciousness. So, charity is one way by which we expand our consciousness beyond our own concerns.
To things that be, of course, beyond our concerns means, the things which are Krishna’s concerns, we take that up for ourselves. So, now, although Krishna has talked about charity in the three modes, the important point also is that he has talked charity as one of the defining characteristics of faith. Among the four, aahar, tapa, yajna and dana.
So, it is quite an important characteristic. That means, if we want to understand the religious inclination, religious level of a person, these are four kinds of things we can look at. Okay, what kind of food that a person needs? Then we can look at, okay, what are the religious activities that he is doing? What are the, what are the, yajna basically doesn’t necessarily have to refer to fire sacrifices.
But what are the ways by which the person is connecting with God? Then tapa refers to what kind of fast that the person performs, what kind of austerity does the person do? Every religion talks something about this. And then what is the way the person gives charity? So, these are general principles. In the, for Muslims also, there are five principles, which are considered fundamental.
So, one of them is, they should offer namaz every day. Then they should give charity to the poor. Then they should go to Mecca, Medina pilgrimage at least once.
Then they should fast on Ramadan. And then they should, they should accept Allah as the one and only God. That is the first one.
So, if you see, the basic principle, yajna, dana, tapa is there in this. There, the yajna may not be fire sacrifice, but they are expected to offer prayers five times a day. Then they are expected to give charity to poor.
Then they are fasting on Ramadan. And then going to the whole austerity of tirtha yatra. The principles are similar.
The same way, within Christianity also, they have their rituals, which basically involves some yajna, dana, tapa. In Christians, they have the tradition of giving taithe, they call it. Generally, the members of Catholic Church, they give one-tenth of their salary as, of their earnings as charity.
That is what they are expected to give. It is called tithing. And then similarly, they also have their fast, especially on certain days.
They have a festival called Lent when they have fast. So, there are various occasions when they also do fast, they give charity. And they also have their ways when they go for mass, and they have their prayers.
So, yajna is a broad way of, we connect with God. So, in general, yajna, dana, tapa, these are very important activities. Yajna, in a sense, connects us with God, connects us with people at a deeper, more selfless level.
We are connected with people in aham and mamam mode. Who are the people who can do something for me? And tapa, it connects us with our soul beyond our body and mind. When I do austerity, then if I am to sustain myself in austerity, I have to think of something higher.
I have to go beyond. Yes, the body is there, but there is some higher purpose beyond bodily needs. So, that is how it connects us with the deeper aspects of life.
And that is how we move forward. So, yajna, dana, tapa are important principles. So, Krishna will tell about all these three.
Yes. How does brahmachari do dana? Well, by receiving dana. Hello, no, I am just joking.
Actually, the brahmachari is expected to, brahmachari is expected to jnana dana. That is a very important service, giving knowledge. Actually, that is the duty of sannyasi and brahmachari is expected to assist sannyasis.
So, the way Prabhupada institute is gone, you know, Bhaktivedanta Thakur had generally sannyasis wearing saffron and brahmacharis wearing white. So, Prabhupada had, brahmacharis also wearing saffron. So, because brahmacharis also, to some extent, perform the duties that are expected of sannyasis.
So, sharing knowledge with others. That is how we also give dana. Yes.
But when I said the first point about receiving dana, the point is not just to receive dana, but the point is that the dana that is given by the people to Krishna, that has to be received and that has to be utilised in the Lord’s service. So, dana cannot be just given in a vacuum. So, that reciprocation has to be there.
So, being a connection for people with God, that is also an aspect of the brahmachari’s role in dana. Brahmacharis or sannyasis, those are in the renounced order. Yes.
Okay. So, it is said that when we give charity, there should be some pinch when we give the charity. Then how is that different from pariklishtam? You know, that one feels the pain.
See, pariklishtam basically refers to, if you look at the context of Rajaguna Charity, one doesn’t want to give the charity, but one is forced to give the charity. You know, because some relative is forcing, or some family member is forcing, or some boss is forcing. So, others are forcing and because of social circumstances, we can’t oppose, we can’t resist, so we give.
That is pariklishtam. Whereas, when we talk about charity giving, to the extent that it pinch, that means, that is more referring to the amount of the charity and giving it to the right cause, with the right motive, but the quantity should be such that there is a little bit of hurt for it. And in a sense, it is in the same way, you know, with respect to everything else that we do in life.
It is yukta, but always we should be trying to do more. Now, for example, how much do we sleep? Whatever our body needs, but we are always trying to do more and more service for Krishna. So, within the limits of our body.
Same way, the idea is that we just want to increase our service to Krishna. So, one way we increase our service to Krishna. So, now Krishna will talk about the concept of Om Tatsat.
So, this, yes. Basically, yeah, no, that energy side, lunar eclipse, solar eclipse, charity in 20. So, now the point is, that should it be that it is given at particular times.
See, the idea is that there are certain times which are considered auspicious for giving charity. So, now the eclipses are considered times when the effect of evil on good, or rather evil is temporarily triumphing over evil. Good.
That is how the sun and the moon, sun or the moon, they get covered. So, now geographically or cosmologically, there might be certain causes, but we know Rahu and Ketu are also invisible planets which cover whose position, orbital position is such that they also come at the position where sun and moon and earth are coming in one line. So, this represents that now the Rahu and Ketu are demons and sun and moon are the gods.
So, this indicates that the temporarily the power of evil is triumphing over the power of good. And that is why at that time, because the power of evil is sort of spreading all over the universe. So, at that time, our interaction with material things we minimise.
That is why we often do not eat food at that time. And we can chant the holy name. See, within our Bhakti Marga also there is the Pancharatriki Vidhi and there is the Bhagavad Vidhi.
So, Pancharatriki Vidhi requires cleanliness. So, that is why even deity worship is not done so much at that time. No, that is stopped.
Not because the deities are affected, but because we are affected. Because we are contaminated by the uncleanness, but we do Bhagavad Vidhi, hearing and chanting. And similarly, one aspect of minimising our contact with material things is giving of those material things.
So, that is why that time is considered inauspicious for ourselves using material things for enjoyment, but that is considered auspicious for giving material things away. Clear? So, now let us move. Krishna will talk about, okay, these are all sacrifices which are done in the three modes.
Now, whatever sacrifice a person is doing, how can we transcend? How can we come to a spiritual consciousness within those sacrifices? What does end of month mean? How is it considered auspicious? See, basically, there is the lunar calendar and solar calendar. So, the end of month is not just geographically March 31st or April 1st. Basically, when the sun comes, goes through a circle, Amavasya or Purnima, that is a time of transition.
So, like from the waxing phase, it is moving to the waning phase or from the waning phase, it is moving to the waxing phase. So, these are times which are of times of transition. So, times of transition are considered to be auspicious because say from the waning phase, the moon is now moving to a waxing phase.
So, that means the auspicious influence of the moon is increasing. So, in that sense, the starting of the month is also considered auspicious. There are, of course, in the Ekadashi, Ekadashi Mahatma, there are stories described for each Ekadashi.
So, these are often stories which are largely talked about in Karmakand context. As devotees, we can read the stories, no problem, but we don’t have to emphasise those stories. So, there may be specific rituals because of which certain times are important and if those rituals are based on Vishnu worship, devotees can also adopt them.
So, Prabhupada is talking here about, as he said, this chapter is not directly talking about Bhakti. There is no direct reference to Maam till now, directly in the Bhagavad Gita, in this chapter. So, it is talking about those people whose following of Dharma is not exactly according to scripture, but they are doing some Dharma, it may be Sattvic, Rajasic, Tamasic.
So, from that point of view, auspicious and inauspicious is also important because it is not transcendental here. So, Om Tat Sat Iti Nirdesho, the absolute truth, Nirdesho means it is known, it is pointed out by these three words, Brahmanas, now here the word Brahmanas and Brahmanas, two words are coming over here and the two are different. So, the Brahmana is known thus by various people.
So, among them is Brahmanas. So, Brahmanas, Ten Vedascha Yajnascha Vihitapura, that means, that the Brahman is addressed to or invoked or referred to by the three words Om Tat Sat. And these three words are used by the Brahmanas.
So, Brahman refers to the absolute truth Brahman, Brahmanas refer to the priests who are chanting the Vedic rituals, who are chanting the Vedic mantras and doing the Vedic rituals. So, they refer to the absolute truth by the word Brahman, by the words Om Tat Sat. So, Brahmanas, Ten Vedascha Yajnascha Vihitapura, Vihitapura means in the past times, during the Yajna, these were the three names which are used to address the absolute truth.
So, Krishna starts this section by basically telling that Om Tat Sat is a means to invoke the absolute truth, to refer to the absolute truth and the whole idea is, the connection of the previous section is, that okay, different people are doing the worship in different conceptions, but now how can they spiritualise their conceptions? So, by connecting with the absolute truth. So, after describing this, Om Tat Sat is the means of invoking the absolute truth, then he will explain the meanings of Om, the context in which Om Tat Sat, these words are used. Satatam Brahmavadinam.
So, Brahmavadinam, so this is the only place where the word Brahmavadi comes in the Bhagavad Gita, there is no Mayavadi in the Bhagavad Gita directly, but here Brahmavadi is a very generic word, it is not referring to, see words have different meanings and we have to always look at the context to understand what is the meaning that is being talked about. Like Bhagwan, it can have a technical meaning, as the person who has six opulences, but Bhagwan Narada or Bhagwan Vyasa can also come like that. So, then we have to see at the context also.
So, here the word Brahmavadi does not necessarily refer to the impersonalist who is contrasted with Mayavadi. Here the word Brahmavadi refers to general person who is following the Vedic culture. So, Vedic culture has Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha.
So, the next verse will talk about Moksha Kangshi Bhi. So, this is talking about any person who is following the broad Vedic culture which helps people to progress through this four stages of Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha. So, what is Krishna telling in this verse? Tasmad Om Ityudharitya.
So, these three words were used to refer to the absolute truth. So, among them Om Ityudharitya. So, it is referred to by Om.
So, whenever Yajna, Dhaana, Tapa, Kriya, this Yajna, Dhaana, Tapa are performed, at that time this Vidhanuktaha. So, they chant the Om mantra and according to scriptural regulation, Vidhanuktaha, Satatam Brahmavadinaham. So, those who are following the broad Vedic culture with the eventual goal of attaining the supreme, so they, whenever the Yajna, Dhaana, Tapa, Karma, they chant that letter Om, chant the sound Om.
Now, after describing this, Krishna will describe about how? Yeah. People above them also. Everyone.
Transcendentalists can also chant it. They also. So, Brahmavadi here refers to everyone who is, they may be aspiring for Moksha in the long run or by the gradual way or the rapid way.
So, generally it is referring to everyone in Jantar. All those people who are in the Vedic fold, they chant Om. Prithvi, we find that some of the Prabhupada’s disciples who are especially in the preaching, in the bridging phases, they write Om Tat Sat.
So, is it only to attract people or? Sometimes, some devotee writers and preachers, they use Om Tat Sat. Is it for bridging purposes? Not necessarily. Prabhupada also, I think, includes this Bhagavatam introduction itself with Om Tat Sat.
So, no. As devotees, it is not that we have to necessarily use Hare Krishna everywhere. Hare Krishna is one way of referring to the absolute truth.
Om Tat Sat is another way. So, just as we can use, see, we will use the word Krishna, but otherwise we will use the word God also. Now, where, especially we are talking with people who are going to accept Krishna as God, ready to accept, then we can use the word Krishna, but otherwise we will use the word God.
Similarly, Om Tat Sat is a more generic way of referring to the absolute truth, invoking the absolute truth. So, we can use that also if the occasion requires that. So, by referring the word, sorry, Anabhisandhaya, it is not Abhisandhaya.
So, Anabhisandhaya means Abhisandhaya with desires. So, the difference which I was making out is, in the previous verse, when Om is being chanted, there is no reference to not being attached to the fruits of the work. Whereas, when Krishna is using the word Sat, it is chanted, it is chanted with respect to, so, Yagya Tapakriya those three were there, but here, Anabhisandhaya Phalap.
So, Kriyante Moksha Kangshibi. So, the Moksha Kangshibi, they don’t want the fruits of the work because they want Moksha. Whereas, the Brahmavadis, they include the broad category of people who may not immediately want Moksha, but they want to be within the house of the scriptures.
So, Krishna is using the word, so, Tat. See, Om is just a general invocation. Tat is a more evolved conception, always thinking about that absolute truth.
Like Tat Tam Asi. Tat also comes over there. Tat is general.
Tat is referring to some other person. So, we are focussing on the absolute truth a little bit more. Then after that, this next verse is a little unclear.
Let’s see what it means. So, now, Krishna in the second verse, Om Tat Sat. So, first verse was Om, second was 25th, 24th was Om, 25th was Tat and 26th was Sat.
And then, towards the last verse, the 26th, 27th talk about Sat and then 27th is like a conclusion and 28th is the conclusion of the whole chapter. 27th is the conclusion of the Om Tat Sat section. So, what is he telling over here? Sat Bhave, Sadhu Bhave.
So, Sat Bhave means actually in the nature of Om, now Om Tat Sat. The word Sat is related with the word Sat. Sat is the eternal absolute truth.
Sat Bhave. So, when one has the attraction to the absolute truth, one wants to attain the nature of the supreme. So, that is, that Sat Bhave, one wants to attain, that is a Sadhu Bhave, that is auspicious.
So, when one has that auspicious emotion of wanting to attain the eternal nature, at that time one chants Sat. So, Prashaste means in bona fide, in scripturally ordained. So, when one does one’s work and then utters Sat.
So, it is not just a matter of uttering Sat. The utterance of Sat is important, no doubt. But it is also the understanding and the purpose, the whole idea that one is trying to connect with the absolute truth, attain the eternal platform.
So, Prashaste is Yajna, then he tells this that, Sat Chabda Partha Yujyate, at that time they used the word Sat. And then he says, Yagya Tapasi Dhaan Eche. So, again and again these three are coming, Yajna, Dhaan, Tapa.
Because the whole idea was, Yajna and Dhaan and Tapa could be in the three modes. But we want to spiritualise them. So, what was in the three modes was talked about earlier in the chapter.
Now, Om Tat Sat, the invocation of the Om Tat Sat and the conception underlying that invocation, both these will help to take these Yajna, Dhaan and Tapa to a transcendental level. Yajna, Dhaan, Tapa. So, at that time, while doing Yajna, Dhaan, Tapa, when one chants Sat, then by that, whatever work one does, that will become spiritualised.
So, what Prabhupada says over there is, which true to the absolute nature are performed to please the Supreme Person. So, essentially, do not get too caught up in what Om means, Tat means, Sat means. These are important terms in the Vedic context.
But within the Vaishnava, the Gaudiya Vaishnava context, the focus is not in the literal recitation of the words, but it is on the essential principles and the emotions that are associated with them. So, the whole idea is that whatever activities we are doing, we connect them with the absolute truth. So, in a sense, this section is, if you had to talk about in devotional terms, it would be something similar to what is talked about in 9.27. But here Krishna is not directly introducing himself.
So, he is talking about it himself in these generic terms of Om Tat Sat. And finally, in the end, Krishna will tell, if actually one does not have faith, then there is of no use. Then it will go all in vain.
Asaditya ucyate partha, na citat pretya noiha. So, ashraddaya hutam dattam. So, chapter started with, what? e jante shraddhaya anvita, ye shastra vidhim utrujya e jante shraddhaya anvita.
One has some shraddha, but here, ashraddaya hutam dattam. So, if without shraddha, one does datta, tapas, taptam, krutam chait. So, here datta refers to giving in charity.
Hutam refers to yajna. And tapa refers to tapa. Yajna dan tapa is what is being talked about over here again.
So, tapas, taptam, krutam chait, if one does these, but if one is not doing shraddha, then it is asaditya ucyate partha, it is asad. And the result, pretya means after that. Where does the word pretya come in a well-known verse, Isopanishad? Yes.
Asuryanamalate loka, andhena tamasavrta, tamste pretyabhiga chanti, eke catmaha nojanah. So, the pretya refers to the post-death stage. So, actually, after the soul leaves the body, then the soul gets a pretadeha.
A pretadeha is a body that is grosser than the subtle body and subtler than the gross body. And that body is the transition by which the soul goes from this world to the next world. And when he goes, of course, this is in the karmakand context, and then when the last rites are performed.
So, on the tenth day, when the pindadaan is done, at that time, whatever food, this is the whole understanding in the Vedic context. As devotees, we are not so much concerned about specifics. We are concerned about satisfying the, addressing the principles.
But the specifics were what? That when the food offerings are done. So, whatever food offering is done in the pindadaan, that food, by a mystical process, that food contributes to the formation of the body of the person in the next life. So, when the pindadaan is completed, at the end of it, the preta becomes a pitra.
That means the preta goes to the next life and he gets the next body over there. That was the idea. So, pretya refers basically to after death.
So, one does not get any benefit after that, nadat pretya na iha, nor in this life. So, that means Krishna is telling that if one does not have faith, one will not get any benefit at all. So, faith is essential and faith can be within three modes and it is best if one comes towards goodness and ultimately goes beyond goodness towards transcendence.
So, in this way, Arjuna’s question is addressed by Krishna through a generic analysis of the three modes and the means to transcend the three modes. So, at this point, the… Arjuna will go back to the… Yes, please. In previous verses, is it a progressive level of ekdaan, tapa, om, tad, sat? Are om, tad, sat progressive? Well, it is not that if you chant sat, you will get more piety than tad or om.
It is not like that. The whole idea is that these are words which all three can be a phrase, which can refer to the absolute truth, but along with that, each of them can be used independently also. And when it is used independently, it has some specific meanings.
Krishna is referring to like, om means, you said, they may want some fruity results. But tad is more specific. They don’t want fruits.
So, what it means is that within the Vedic ritual context, the different… See, in our case, how it works is that just like Dhruva Maharaj, when he could not remember what to pray to the Lord, he just started praying. He started chanting the holy names and then he got the buddhi and then he was the conscious put and then he could utter eloquent prayers. No, Dhruva Maharaj, when he saw the Vishnudutas, when the Vishnudutas came to take him back to the spiritual world, actually he just didn’t know what to do.
So, he offered obeisance. He didn’t know what prayers to offer. So, he decided that he started chanting the holy names at that time.
So, Prabhupada says that, you know, devotees can chant the holy names at all times. That is fine. But still, within Deity worship also, there are specific mantras which you can chant at specific times.
So, within the Vedic context, om, tad, sat are words which are used for specific purposes. And Krishna is basically telling what were the purposes for which those words were used. And cumulatively, he is saying that all these three separate words, as well as the three-word compound, all, both of those are used ultimately to spiritualise our material activities.
Clear? So, yeah. Okay, what is the significance in the Shraddha of the crows coming? See, the whole idea is that, whenever certain rituals are performed, especially which are involving, invoking, which are meant to satisfy some higher beings, or which are connected with some higher principles, then there is some way in which the Lord or the higher beings reciprocate. So, the specific crow coming is not important, the specific crow coming, but the idea is that, actually, the higher powers that are there in the universe, ultimately the Supreme Lord, when the sacrifices are performed properly, when the Yajna is, whatever, Pindadhan is done, then when a crow comes and takes, the idea is that, that is a way, it is indicated that now the sacrifice is completed.
So, the underlying principle is that the Supersoul is there in the heart of all living beings, and a Supersoul guides a crow to come over there. So, that is a way by which it is indicated that this Yajna has now been completed. Clear? Yes.
Thank you, Krishna. Prabhuji, now we are discussing about this Karmakanda. So, but devotees don’t follow the Karmakanda.
So, he is more involved in the practical devotional service, like chanting and all. So, what is the importance of this Karmakanda in devotees’ life, whether they should follow or not follow? What is the importance of Karmakanda in devotees’ life? In general, brahmacharis, not at all. Grahastas, there are some Karmakandi samskaras.
Actually, the samskaras are broad principles, they are not necessarily Karmakandi, but the samskaras can be spiritualised and they can be followed. So, Prabhupada, of course, would talk about Karmahadana samskara, and there is the Vivaha samskara, but there are various samskaras like that. In fact, there is a whole book of samskaras that has been published by the GBC press, I think Bhanu Maharaj and Bhakti Vidya Purnima Maharaj, some other devotees have come together and written that book, and that is all meant to create devotional impressions in people’s lives.
So, the samskaras that are given, Gopal Bhatt Goswami, in his, what is the book, Shat Kriya Deepika, Satsara Deepika, there he describes, there he describes how many of these Karmakandi rituals can be made devotional, can be spiritualised, basically. So, during Bhakti Sanskrit Thakur’s times, he was the first person who started sort of institutionally cultivating people. So, many of the grahasthas, they were, most of his followers were Indians, and they had to, they were practising Vaishnavas, but they were in broad Indian culture.
So, Indian culture involved doing a lot of Karmakandi activities also. So, then they would go and do Karmakandi activities with the Karmakandi Brahmins, and those Karmakandi Brahmins would often give conceptions which were quite erroneous from the transcendental perspective. So, then at that time, Bhakti Sanskrit Thakur said that, even devotees, now after a lot of discussions, the devotees should learn some of the Karmakandi rituals, so that they can do it in a devotional way.
That’s why we have, now when we have the Vibhaha Yajna also, we have some devotee priests who do the Vibhaha. Like that, the various Yajnas can be done by devotees. So, that way, we have been given guidance in our Kampraday, about which of the rituals that are there in the broader culture, they can be adopted.
Okay. Yes, Samal Mahaprabhu. In our tradition, like, Upanayanam is given by the spiritual master, actually, not supposed to be taken by somebody like other Karmakandi Brahmins and all which are there.
So, now many others, they will consider this as very, very important, but what specifically devotees should do, as Grahasthas, I am asking. Upanayanam ceremony. So, Grahasthas, that is a Diksha which we associate with.
So, should they, means, are you saying that if they are in a family where they get Upanayanam from a Kulguru, should they take it or not? Yes. Generally speaking, there is no strict rule about this. There is, as long as it does not involve some long-term commitment in terms of, say, worshipping some demigod or doing some rituals, which are not in agreement with devotional principles, one does not have to necessarily disturb the faith of others.
In the Buddha Vedam Jnane, that principle is in 3.26. So, it is not necessary also, absolutely, like, I know some devotees, they were Brahmin families born earlier, and they were wearing sacred thread. And then they became devotees, then they realised that, okay, now actually this is not proper. So, they actually took out their sacred thread.
And then, whether that is essential? Well, we like to say, it is not absolutely essential that it has to be renounced. The important point is that we should practise the core principles of Bhakti. So, I will say that it has to be decided upon time, place, circumstance.
It is not absolute principle that, because most initiations nowadays are quite nominal, in the sense that there is no commitment made at that time, and no long-term relationship formed. So, that way if you see, Prabhupada’s father was a Vaishnava, and still Prabhupada, Gaur Mohande got Prabhupada initiated by some guru. And Prabhupada said that, you know, that did not have any effect on me at all.
So, the point is that Prabhupada was a Vaishnava since childhood, still he had some initiation. It is not that he opposed it or didn’t do it, but it neither was it that it had a big transformational effect on it. So, whether we should specifically reject any of these things, that will vary.
Especially, if it involves something which is non-devotional or anti-devotional, then we have to be careful about those things. Participant – Brahmin guru, specifically now, as we have in ISKCON, what I had heard that if a person is having already a Brahmin guru, that means the Upanayan ceremony, and if that person is not an atheist and not a Mayavadi, which means in the Vedic fold, not exactly a Mayavadi, then, means what I had heard that ISKCON will discontinue giving them the Brahmana, because they already have a guru, Brahmin guru, who is eligible to teach the Vedic scriptures, because Brahman initiation is actually meant for proximity to deities and scripture, basically. So, that’s what I had heard.
So, is that correct? That’s why I was asking, because then that would mean to say that we are taking such a step, which is detrimental in one’s sense. This, as far as I know, that Shivram Swami Maharaj’s book, he writes this, Diksha Guru, Siksha Guru. Yeah.
So, if somebody has already got Brahman initiation, from a person who is not directly atheistic, not atheistic, then is it that the person doesn’t need to take Brahman Diksha in ISKCON or shouldn’t take? There is, as of now, no uniform understanding on this. The whole concept of guru is a complex issue. And then even the concept of initiation, you know, previously in our Sampradaya, the primary initiation was the Brahman initiation.
Now, from Prabhupada’s time, actually the Harinam initiation has been very much emphasised. What has been emphasised is not important. The principle is important.
It’s connecting with the guru. So, generally speaking, Shiv Goswami, now Shivram Maharaj’s book, it’s well researched, but that is not the ISKCON’s official position. The guru issue is quite complex and that is, he can base his position on certain scriptures, but that’s his position.
So, the general, what Shiv Goswami, Bhaktivinoda Thakur says, two things, that if one has been already initiated by a guru, who is a Vaishnava in proper standing, then one doesn’t have to take re-initiation. On the other hand, he says, if one has taken initiation from Mayavadi or a Karmakandi, then one needs to take initiation from a guru, Vaishnava guru. So, there is no specific differentiation between Harinam and Brahman diksha.
Generally speaking, the whole purpose of diksha is eventually to get shiksha. So, we have to connect with our spiritual master, with our spiritual master in parampara, in a proper way. Now, the specifics will vary according to time, place, circumstance.
I wouldn’t make any specific, any authority statement, because as of now, I don’t see any authority statement directly being implemented. So, this will vary. Why should one unnecessarily do this step? You know uniformity on this, then as among ISKCON grahasthas, brahmacharis anyway they won’t do, so among grahasthas why we can’t tell them that this is not required for them, because they are anyway, if their devotees, children are going to grow, then they will get a brahman guru also in future.
Specifically for devotees I am asking, not for outsiders. See, whether for devotees what should be done, ultimately in the Mahabharata Krishna says, nahi sarvatra vidhiyate, there is not a rule for everything. In the context Krishna is telling Arjuna is that, there are times when you have to use your intelligence to decide things.
It is not a rule for everything, nahi sarvatra vidhiyate. The scriptures give us broad principles, but you cannot just legislate everything in life. So, these were, these are issues which actually have to be decided on time, place, circumstance.
I would say that the broad principle is, generally devotees complete the whole process of initiation within ISKCON, but if some devotees have some reservations, others should not make them feel uncomfortable. The whole process of inspiration, whole process of initiation is based on individual inspiration. So, if somebody feels uncomfortable, uninspired about taking a particular step, we should not force them to take it.
But at the same time if somebody feels inspired to do it, we should not stop them. So, that is why it will vary according to time, place, circumstance. It is a little difficult.
I would not like to make any statement like that. In general, I have seen that most devotees take both initiations, but Prabhupada also said that, there is Harinam that takes us back to Godhead. Prabhupada said that second and third vikshas are not essential for going back to Godhead.
So, one can go back to Godhead just with first initiation. So, third initiation is of course sannyas. So, we do not need second and third for going back to Godhead.
So, in that sense, second initiation is not essential. So, it is not that if a person does not take second initiation, his initiation process is incomplete. He has already initiated, already connected with sampradaya and is well situated on the path back to Godhead.
So, if the person feels that he has already taken second initiation from elsewhere, that is good enough, then it is okay. Okay, last two questions, then we will stop. I changed the whole brahman being the primary one.
He changed in his con as Harinam as the primary one. That is one thing. And second thing is initiation itself, how it is different from, means in organisational way, initiation is different from other ways initiation.
In a karmakandika way or? So, how is, how did Prabhupada change the initiation? Okay, I have a whole seminar on this. So, okay, I will just take one part of it here quickly. So, basically, initiation in general has five parts.
It is called as pancha-samskara. Tapah, pundram, tatha, namo, mantra, yajnas cha panchamah, amihi cha pancha-samskara, paramaikantiki hetavah. So, these are, there is cause of paramaikantiki hetavah, there is cause for devotion.
So, tapah, pundra, nama, mantra and yajna. So, pundra is the tilak that we use. So, nama refers to, we will just go ahead here, tapah refers to actually the principle of performing austerity.
So, in our case, it is four regular principles. Pundra is the applying tilak. Nama is the harinam that we use.
Mantra actually refers to the Gayatri mantra. And yajna is deity worship. So, basically, these five components together comprise the process of initiation.
This is from the Pancharatras, basically. This verse and these five principles. So, now, these five have to be administered.
How they will be administered, that will vary according to person to person. Tradition to tradition, guru to guru, that will vary. The pancha-samskara is important.
So, the way we have it in the Gaudiya tradition was that all Vaishnavas, if they are practising Vaishnava, they can wear tilak. So, pundra starts away. Tapah, we start following the four regular principles as much as we can.
And then, as they become serious, they want to be committed, they follow it seriously. So, tapah, pundra, there is no specific ritual for starting that. Then, nama, we start chanting, but we get it at the time of first initiation.
And then, mantra and yajna, that starts at the second initiation. So, now, these five, they may be given over a period of time. But for Prabhupada, all five were almost, most of the second initiation was given together.
That is the exception, but Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur would do that. So, in Kaliyuga, the holy name is the most important because it is the Yugadharma. So, Prabhupada emphasised that.
Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur did not de-emphasise the holy name, he also emphasised it. But the point was, he was talking, he was living in a setting that was primarily within India, within the Vedic culture. And within that Vedic culture, it is the Brahman Diksha that is considered to be primary Diksha.
And he went along with that tradition. So, eventually, it is not that Brahman Diksha involves some additional vows, about additional sadhana. The main thing is, the sadhana is, what we talk about, the Harinam Diksha itself.
So, in that sense, what Prabhupada did was just a shift of emphasis. But the essence remained the same. Is it clear? And what was the second question? Okay, how is it different, different traditions? Basically, these five should be done.
Now, how they will be done, that will vary. You know, some, some, some institutions have a very, have an initiative which almost borders on the frivolous. You know, you just have the Charanamruta, the Guru thrown on people and whoever gets a drop, they are initiated.
And that is really making an initiative too cheap. There are others who have a little bit of rituals and some formalities there, but there is no commitment over there. So, you know, this is my dog, this is my grandfather, this is my, this is my favourite film star, and this is my Guru.
You know, it’s like just a fashion or a trend. It’s not like that. So, actually, we have to become disciples.
So, generally, the process of, the whole process of initiation is to formalise our commitment to the spiritual master and to the process of devotional service. But the essence is the commitment, but there is a formalised occasion where we, there is an occasion where we formalise that commitment. Yes, last question.
Oh, Brahmachari should not follow Karmakant rituals, that I am basically referring to Samskaras, the various Samskaras that are there, that they don’t need to follow. But there are certain things, just like, we follow whatever is in the Vaishnav calendar. So, generally speaking, the eclipses are also, they are significant things.
So, see, how do you divide what is Karmakand and what is Bhakti? It’s whatever Acharyas have given us. So, Ekadashi, especially, these are, Ekadashi can be a very much Karmakandi ritual. But Ekadashi can be followed from Bhakti perspective also.
So, when we follow the solar eclipse, lunar eclipse also, what are the things that we do? We are not doing anything to, you know, counter the influence of Rahu, Ketu, at a Karmakandi level. What are we doing is essentially increasing our devotional service, trying to focus on the core activities of devotional service. So, in that sense, the occasion is just a spur for us to intensify our devotional service.
So, the solar lunar eclipse, devotees are not affected, are fearful of the material inauspiciousness that can come. But we are concerned with increasing our devotion and we use it for that purposes. So, it’s not necessarily anything contrary, just like astrology.
Generally, devotees don’t have to refer to astrology. But it’s not wrong. If some devotees feel that that’s what they want to do, they can do it.
In marriage bureau, when they have that, then they leave up to the boy and the girl whether they want to get the horoscopes matched or not. Most of them may want, some of them may not want, that’s up to them. So, there are some things which are left optional.
Some are Karmakandi rituals or some occasions which are of significance. That significance is basically something which is related with the happenings in the universe. That significance can be addressed at a Karmakandi level or it can be addressed at the Bhakti level.
So, we are taking the events that are significant at the cosmic level and we are addressing them at a Bhakti level. So, Ekadashi is a day which is pleasing to Lord Vishnu. It also has material benefits.
So, it’s a significant day. But rather than focussing it on the material level, we are focussing at a transcendental level. Thank you