Are the Universal Forms in the Gita and the Bhagavatam the same or different?

What exactly is the Universal Form? If the universe itself is the form of Krishna, then what is the meaning of Krishna’s showing the Universal Form to Arjuna in the Gita?

Question what exactly is the meaning of the universal form of the lord are the universal forms in the bhagavatam and the bhagavad gita that i described the same what did krishna reveal to arjuna when actually the universe was already present around what exactly is the meaning of a universal form that krishna revealed to arjuna answer the universal form as the word suggests is the universe being revealed as the form of the lord now in some ways the universal forms that are revealed in the bhagavatam and the bhagavad gita are the same they are both manifestations of god’s glory through the medium of the matter and the material world as it is constituted in the universe at the same time there are substantial differences in the shrimad bhagavatam second canto when the universal form is talked about it is clearly mentioned that this is kalpita it is an imagined form so in the second canto the virata rupa is a conceptual tool to help people meditate on the absolute truth as a part of the conceptual tool for those people who are not yet spiritually evolved to understand that god who is so great can still have a human like two handed form for those people who are in the material conception and think that god’s bigness must be manifested in terms of bigness in size for those people the universal form is a valuable tool so they are told to conceive that the mountains are like the bones of the lord the trees are like the hair on his body and in this way while looking at the large manifestations of matter they can think of god so the bhagavatam vishwa rupa is a conceptual tool there is no actual form of the lord somewhere where the bones are the mountains and the rivers are like the blood flow or whatever there is no such form like that actually existing in any part of the universe that is a conceptual tool that is used on the other hand in the bhagavad gita what arjuna saw was not something which he conceptualized as a sadhana to fix his mind on god that was a vision that was revealed by krishna to arjuna so the virata rupa of the bhagavatam is a bottom to up process where a soul is trying to conceive of the absolute truth by using his own mind and imagination of course directed according to scripture but the virata rupa revealed in the bhagavad gita is a top down revelation so although there is no such form of krishna where that on top of that rupa there is brahmaji sitting on the lotus flower and there are various rishis and at the bottom of the universe there is urugam, there are the fierce serpents so there is no form like that but that was a vision that was given by krishna to arjuna that means that form is not considered imaginary that form is a revealed vision given, arranged by krishna so there may not be any eternal form like that in the spiritual world but when krishna reveals some particular vision that is certainly not just a kalpita so imagination means what we do with our mind, revelation is that which krishna gives to us within our perception so that is the first difference with respect to imaginary tool or a revelation secondly, within the vishwa rupa that was revealed to arjuna, he was also shown the kaal rupa so basically the universe has two primary bases to its fabric of existence one is space and the other is time even in modern physics, space time is considered to be the continuum in which everything is existing so the vishwa rupa that is talked about in the bhagavatam is showing how god pervades all the space that exists so everything in the universe is within the form of the lord as vishwa rupa so the pervasion of god in space is revealed in the vishwa rupa of the bhagavatam the bhagavad gita also talks about this pervasion of space but the bhagavad gita also talks about god manifesting as time and that’s why arjuna is also able to see what is going to happen in the future and he sees all the warriors on both sides and especially he sees the principal warriors on the kaurava side bheeshmam cha dronam cha jayendratham cha all of them entering into the vishwa rupa so the kala rupa is an additional vision that is shown in the bhagavad gita where god is seen as non different from time and that’s why seeing this kala rupa seeing especially the destruction that is caused by the kala rupa, arjuna becomes horrified and he prays, please i don’t want to see this, he becomes overwhelmed by fear and he says please reveal your saumya rupa to me there is no such fear or horror or bewilderment that is described for the yogi who meditates on the virata rupa in the bhagavatam now yes the vishwa rupa if krishna if the vishwa is krishna in the sense then what exactly is krishna revealing yes krishna is revealing to arjuna that yes there is a vishwa rupa but i will reveal that vishwa rupa to you so because the two vishwa rupas are different in the bhagavad gita and the bhagavatam therefore although the vishwa was still existing separately from the all the people who are residing in it but still at that time krishna revealed something additional to arjuna and arjuna saw within the vishwa rupa the devatas also he saw within the vishwa rupa brahma he saw within the vishwa rupa the kandharvas and the yakshas and the devas and the siddhas and the asuras and everyone he saw within the vishwa rupa that was the additional vision that was given and so that’s why although there is a vishwa rupa which is conceptualized by the bhagavatam as the vishwa being the rupa here in the bhagavad gita it is the rupa being shown as the vishwa so the focus is different in the bhagavatam it is shown how the vishwa is the rupa of the lord that is how a person conceives whereas in the bhagavad gita the rupa is shown to be the vishwa there is a gigantic form that is seen and within that the whole universe is seen so in this way the focus are different but as devotees we need to focus primarily on chanting hare krishna and practicing krishna consciousness and that will enable us to transcend whatever material affinities we have and develop attraction to the beautiful form of shama sundar that’s why in the bhagavad gita bhen krishna is revealing the vishwa rupa arjuna also says i don’t want to see this please show me a samaya rupa and shila prabhupada explains in the parapura that a devotee is not interested in such a godless display of opulence, this is a remarkable statement to make because god is displaying his opulence and prabhupada is saying that this is a godless display of opulence why? because this is a display of just brute power and pervasion of space and control of time and although these are features of god these are features of god which can only inspire awe and fear they cannot inspire affection and love and because the devotee is reciprocating, interested in reciprocating with the lord in a mood of affection and love so he doesn’t pay much attention to these forms and that’s why prabhupada says that this is just a godless display of opulence this also indicates to us what is the lofty level of consciousness of shila prabhupada where he actually is helping us to see beyond god’s opulence of power and of raw power and pervasion of space to the beautiful personal manifestation of god as krishna thank you