Chatur Shloki Bhagavatam 02 – Understanding inconceivability as an explanation for the world’s nature

​Bhagavatam class at ISKCON, Denver

Thank you Krishna. I sing the blessings of Surya Nirvana, so that I can speak something, to glorify Sri Srimad Bhagavatam.
So this is a verse, which succinctly states the Achit Vidhavihit Tattva. Just as the, here it says, how the Lord relates with the material world, is being stated over here. So, just as the elements enter into the cosmos, and do not enter, similarly I enter into the cosmos, and I do not enter into it also.
So one of the fundamental questions, that faces any system of theology, is to reconcile, between the goodness of God, and the miseries of this world. In Christian theology, this problem is called as the problem of evil. Where, they hold that, sometimes some small children, get some terrible diseases, sometimes natural calamities come, people die, thousands of people die, or sometimes, people themselves commit brutal atrocities, say like the Nazis were killed by, Nazis killed the Jews.
So, if God is good, why does he allow such evil? So they classify this evil into two categories, one is natural evil, and the other is moral evil. Natural evil is, that which just happens in nature, such as earthquakes, and tsunamis, and things like that. And moral evil, is when people themselves do wrong.
And yesterday we discussed about, the three aspects of existence, Jagat, Jeeva and Jagdish. So in those terms, when the Jagat, seems to bring some suffering, that is called as natural evil. And when Jeeva causes some suffering, that is moral evil.
So, if God, Jagdish, is in control, and he is good, he is benevolent, then why does he allow such suffering to be present? Now, if you see in the Bhagavad Gita, it talks about, So, rather than focussing on specific forms of miseries, like say young children getting terrible diseases, or people dying untimely deaths in calamities, the Bhagavad Gita goes to a more fundamental question. Why is there death at all? Why is there any suffering at all? So, Prabhupada translates this, Interestingly, he doesn’t translate Dukkha as misery, in his 13.8 to 12 translations of the Bhagavad Gita. He translates it as evils.
The universal and inescapable evils of birth, old age, disease and death. So that translation, evil is very significant. So, in the Vedantic analysis, the problem of evil is reconceptualised in a much more expansive form, that Brahman, the absolute truth.
The word Brahman, when we use it, we use it often to refer to Brahmajyoti. But in the Upanishads, the Brahman is a generic reference to the absolute truth. So, Brahman can refer to even Bhagavan also.
Brahman can refer to Paramatma also. So, their question in the Upanishads is that, like the word when Athato Brahma Jijnasa, their Brahman essentially refers to generically spiritual enquiry. It doesn’t necessarily refer to Brahmajyoti.
The Vedanta Sutra is not saying, now we’ll try to enquire about Brahmajyoti. Enquire about the life spiritual dimension. So, in Vedantic philosophy, the fundamental question is, Brahman is Sat-Chit-Ananda.
Brahman is by definition, Ananda, filled with happiness. And in contrast with that, this word is Dukkhalaya. So, how does the Dukkhalaya word come from Brahman? Because one of the definitions of Brahman is, Janma-Agya-Siddha, that it is the source of everything.
So, if this miserable world, if this misery-filled world is coming from Brahman, how does it come? Example is given that, if a lion won’t beget a deer, a lion will beget a lion. So, if the absolute truth is Sat-Chit-Ananda, from the absolute truth, what should come from Sat-Chit-Ananda? How is it that this misery-filled world comes from the absolute truth? And, there are many different Vedantic schools, which have come up with different answers for this. There are two broad answers.
Those answers can be categorised in terms of the answers that the Vaishnavas gave and the answers that the Advaitins gave. The Advaitins, they claim that actually misery is an illusion. And by extension, they say this world is also an illusion.
So, they reconcile the misery of this world with the with the joyfulness of Brahman by saying that the misery of this world is just an illusion. It’s like a dream. When we wake up, then, we will realise that this was not there at all.
Now, this understanding can be actually quite jarring. Now, to think that when we go through sufferings in this world, they are real and grave subjects. In fact, there is an atheist philosopher in Britain who has made a quote, made a legal case saying that belief in God should be banned as an immoral, anti-human belief.
And what is his reasoning? His reasoning is that that when we see the reality, the gravity of suffering in this world and having seen the suffering, to believe in the goodness, in the existence of a God, a good God, this is an insult to all suffering people in the world. So he says, we deny the reality of the suffering of people when we say that God is good. So, now this idea that suffering itself is all illusion, it is it is difficult to accept because when we go through the suffering, we don’t feel it as illusion.
It is real and it is painful. It can be unbearably painful also when the suffering comes. So the Vaishnava understanding is that God has different energies.
There is spiritual energy and there is mental energy. So there is Vivartavada which is the Advaitic understanding which says that this world is illusion. And there is Parinamavada which says the absolute truth has energies and the energies undergo transformations.
So now the Vaishnava understanding is that there is material energy and there is spiritual energy. And the spiritual energy has free will. And the very existence of free will necessitates the existence of an arena where free will can be exercised.
You know, here some parents tell their children, you are free to do whatever you want but you can’t go out of this room. That is very restricted freedom. Isn’t it? It is very restricted freedom.
It is freedom but it is very restricted freedom. Or if somebody says I’ll tie your hands, tie your legs and you are free to do whatever you want. Then what can you do? That free will has no meaning only.
So at one level we understand that the absolute truth has given his parts freedom so that there can be the reciprocation of love. Krishna doesn’t want all of us to be robots. He wants us to consciously choose to love.
And for that purpose he has given freedom. Now, giving freedom means he has to provide a facility where we can use our free will in an undesirable way. Is it a desirable way to use your free will? That is undesirable.
And if that facility is not there then there is no meaning to the free will. So, that facility for using the free will in the way that we want that is the material world. So, the absolute truth has two energies.
The material and the spiritual. And they are all integrated with the absolute truth. And the sufferings of this world are not because of God.
They are actually in spite of God. They are not because of God. They are in spite of God.
What does that mean? Once a person who was an atheist, once a person who believed in God, a devotee, this is a story, an atheistic person, he went to a doctor. And the doctor happened to be an atheist. And he saw that this person believes in God.
He is a devotee of God. So, how can you believe in God? Why get so many sick people? And such terrible suffering is there. Such terrible suffering is there.
If there was a good God then he would not allow him such suffering. So, this devotee remained silent. And after some time he took the consultation and went out.
And after he went out of the clinic, and after a few minutes he barged back into the clinic. And he told the doctor, there are no doctors in this city. He said, what do you mean? I don’t know.
He said, come out. He took the doctor out of his clinic and took him out. And he saw there was a beggar on the street.
And that beggar was coughing piteously. Coughing, coughing, coughing. He said, the fact that he is suffering a terrible cough, a terrible disease, proves that there are no doctors in the city.
He said, are you crazy? He said, he is suffering because he is not coming to me. So, the devotee said, exactly. People are suffering because they are not going to God.
So, if suffering people come to a doctor, it is not that their suffering will go away immediately. But their suffering will decrease. And eventually, they will be cured.
So, similarly, in this world, there is suffering. But that suffering is not caused by God. God is not the cause of the suffering.
God is the cure for the suffering. And why is the suffering there in this world? That suffering is there because the Jivas, the souls who have free will, they misuse their free will. And when they misuse their free will, their actions have consequences.
So, different actions have different consequences. Sometimes, if they do wrong activities, then that brings consequences. In 1.8.28, in the Srimad Bhagavatam, Kunti Maharani will pray to Krishna, states that, I consider you to be time.
You are the supreme being. You are beginningless. You are beyond destruction.
And, relevant to our discussion, You are equal to all. You are not partial to anyone. You don’t favour anyone.
You don’t disfavour anyone. Then, we see there is suffering in this world. What is the reason for that? Depending on how the living entities interact with each other, the kind of actions that they do, those bring reactions.
And that is how there is suffering in this world. So, moral evil comes because God has given us free will and some people misuse their free will. When they misuse their free will, they act in terribly wrong ways.
And, natural evil is a result of the reactions to the moral evil that people have done in this or previous lives. So, the evil of this world is actually primarily because of disconnection with God. Secondarily, there are causes.
So, if I get a disease, I can find out what is the cause. Oh, the cause is, I have malaria. I was bit by a mosquito.
That’s why I got malaria. This is also a valid level of causation. So, we can actually analyse causality at three levels.
There is an immediate cause, there is an intermediate cause, and there is an ultimate cause. So, the immediate cause is what science gives it. So, if I got malaria, that is because a mosquito bit me.
That is the immediate cause. And things need to be dealt with at the level of the immediate cause also. But that is not the complete understanding.
Why? Because in that same house, there might have been five people staying and why did the mosquito come and bite me only? Not someone else. Or, even if it bit everyone else, why did I get the disease alone, not someone else? So, that is because I have done some past karma because of which I was meant to get this disease. So, the immediate cause and the intermediate cause, they go in parallel.
So, because of the intermediate cause, then the immediate cause becomes the instrument for that immediate cause. That’s why Shrila Prabhupada would sometimes say that don’t be angry with the instrument of your karma. If somebody disrespects us, somebody insults us, you see that this person is simply giving us our karmic reactions.
That does not mean that we simply passively accept it. But we may have to do the needful to respond to it. But we don’t become vindictive.
We don’t become revengeful. So, then this is the intermediate cause. And then, the suffering has an ultimate cause.
That ultimate cause is disconnection from Krishna, forgetfulness of Krishna. It is because of disconnection from Krishna that we are in this world. And because we are in this world, we are having various kinds of sufferings.
So, now when we practise Krishna Consciousness, it acts at the level of ultimate causation. That it acts at the level of dealing with the ultimate cause of our suffering. That is, that we have forgotten Krishna.
It also works at the intermediate level because when we start practising Krishna Bhakti, we develop moral strength by which we stop getting tempted by immoral activities. And we stop succumbing to, not stop, we stop getting tempted. We stop succumbing to them.
We may still be tempted. But we learn to resist them. So, that way we counter, we resist moral evil.
That means our own wrong doing. And natural evil is the reactions may come, even for devotees. But when the devotee remembers Krishna, the suffering because of that reaction gets minimised.
madhāśrayaṁ kathāmṛṣṭhā Å›ruṇvanti gathayanti ca tapanti vividhāsthāpā naitān mad-gata-cetasah In Kapila’s teachings, he tells Mother Devahuti that that when my devotees become absorbed in remembering me, then tapanti vividhāsthāpā there are various miseries that come upon them. There are miseries of material existence, but naitān mad-gata-cetasah. They don’t experience those miseries because they are absorbed in mad-gata-cetasah.
Just like outside may be very hot. It’s unbearably hot. But if I can come into air-conditioned room, then I don’t feel the heat.
The heat is still there, but I don’t feel the heat because I have come in air-conditioned room. So, like that, the miseries of material world will be there. But many times, our problems trouble us more and more when we think about them.
If somebody has insulted me, I keep thinking about it, thinking about it, thinking about it. Then that misery becomes bigger and bigger and bigger. But I don’t keep thinking about it at all when I think about Krishna.
I absorb myself in constructive service to Krishna, then the problem is there, and I’ll have to deal with the problem in whatever way is appropriate. But we don’t get worked up unduly by that. So, it works at an intermediate level also in terms of giving us tolerance to the results of naturally.
When sufferings come upon us, then if we are absorbed in Krishna, the magnitude of suffering is much lesser too. Now, at the immediate level, we may need to do something practical. So, Krishna consciousness or spiritual practise, it is not a substitute for material practise.
The spiritual and the material are complementary. It is not that the spiritual replaces the material. Now, Arjuna did not win the Kurukshetra award based on the knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita.
He won the Kurukshetra award based on the knowledge of archery that he had learned throughout his life. His knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita helped him to use that knowledge of archery in a dharmic way. So, the material and the spiritual go in complement.
Just like if somebody is deceased, it is not that if somebody has got a fracture, we don’t expect that by chanting Hare Krishna, the fracture will get healed. No, if the fracture is there, you have to take a surgical treatment. And this is there in the tradition itself.
That is, there is Ayurveda, which is basically medicine. It is involving material mechanisms. Okay, this is the disturbance in the body.
It is a material disturbance. And you take these substances into the body and that material disturbance will be cured. Now, this is not outside the scope of Krishna consciousness.
Because those who have broad understanding of Krishna consciousness, they know that it is God only who acts through the medicines. Krishna himself says in the Bhagavad Gita, Aushadra in 9.16, he says that, actually, I am the Aushadri, I am the medicine, I am the healing herb. So, we see that, even when we are taking some immediate treatments, some medicines, we see that it is Krishna who is acting through these treatments.
But, it is not that these directly spiritual activities will heal material problems. If the temple hall is clean, is unclean, chanting Hare Krishna is not going to clean the temple hall. We have to clean the temple hall.
That is also devotional service. So, similarly, taking care of the body and its needs, devotees see that also as devotional service. Because the body is meant for the service of Krishna.
So, the point which I am making over here is that Krishna consciousness guides us towards actions that can help us to deal with suffering at all three levels. At the ultimate level, the intermediate level, and the immediate level. The actions that we take at the immediate level may seem to be material.
But, for a devotee, they are also infused with spiritual consciousness. They are also done with the intention of serving Krishna and pleasing Krishna. So, when devotees bathe, devotees brush their teeth, they also say that actually I am doing this so that I think this body becomes fit and clean and healthy for serving Krishna.
So, now, so this way the Vedantic understanding of the problem of evil is that God is not the cause of evil. God is the cure of evil. Evil exists not because of God, but in spite of God.
Now, this verse talks about the absolute truth’s relationship with matter. And it is said that actually the absolute truth enters into this world and also does not enter into this world. Krishna also talks about this in the Bhagavad Gita in 9.4 and 9.5. 9.4 it says mayadatamidam sarvam jagadauvyakta-mÅ«rtina mat-sthāni sarva-bhÅ«tāni na cāhaṁ teá¹£huva-vasthitaḥ He says that mayadatamidam sarvam jagadauvyakta-mÅ«rtina By my unmanifested form I am pervading the whole world.
mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni All the beings are situated in me. na cāhaṁ teṣhuva-vasthitaḥ But I am not situated in them. And then he further says Actually this verse is very very philosophically pregnant.
One way of reading the verse is that this talks about the three levels of the absolute truth. The first two lines talk about Brahman. mayadatamidam sarvam jagadauvyakta-mūrtina By me in my unmanifested form I pervade the whole universe.
That is the Brahman aspect. And then mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni All living beings are situated in me. That refers to the Paramātmā aspect.
The Paramātmā sustains all of existence. na cāhaṁ teṣhuva-vasthitaḥ But I am not situated in them. This refers to the Bhagavān aspect.
Bhagavān is transcendental, existing in the spiritual world. And in the next verse, 9.5, Krishna says All living beings are not sustained in me. Now if you see this is a direct contradiction of what Krishna has said, just two lines only.
9.4c, normally when scholars refer to the Bhagavad Gita they want to refer to a verse, specific section they refer to it as A, B, C, D. So the third line is C. So if 9.4c is mat-sthāni sarva-bhÅ«tāni and 9.5a is na ca mat-sthāni bhÅ«tāni These two are directly contradictory. And normally, if somebody makes a contradictory statement usually they will apologise. I am sorry, I didn’t mean that.
And they will clarify. But Krishna in the next line does not have any apologetic mood. He has a celebratory mood.
He says, paśyame yoga vaiśvaram Just see my mystic opulence. So there is a difference between a contradiction and a paradox. Contradiction means there are two opposite statements.
Paradox means the two statements seem to be opposite but there is an underlying truth that unites them. So for example, if a teacher is assessing the papers of some students and the teacher says, the least corrected papers are the most correct. Now at first glance, least correct, most correct, it seems contradictory.
But what is the teacher saying? The least corrected papers are the most correct. That means the least red mark the teacher has put on the paper. Why is that? Because the paper was originally itself correct.
So the lesser the red marks, that means the more correct the paper is. So the least corrected papers are the most correct. So this might seem like a contradiction but it’s not a contradiction.
It’s a paradox. Paradox means that there is some underlying truth which reconciles the two. In Vedic epistemology, this is called as Arthapatti.
Arthapatti means postulation to reconcile apparent contradictions. So for example, standard example is given in Vedic epistemology, Devadatta does not eat throughout the day. That is one statement.
Second statement is, Devadatta’s weight is increasing. Now how can the two be possible? Somebody doesn’t eat, their weight should decrease. So the Arthapatti, the postulation to reconcile the two is Devadatta eats secretly at night.
Devadatta eats secretly at night. So there are two statements which appear contradictory. But if we know they are true, then we need a third statement which reconciles them both.
So here, I, all living beings sustain me, all living beings do not sustain me. They seem contradictory. But Krishna is not at all apologetic, Krishna is celebratory.
Yes, this is my mystic opulence. So what is the mystic opulence here? That actually, there are two different aspects of the absolute truth that are being referred to. So as the Bhagawan aspect, he does not enter into the material world.
As the Paramatma aspect, he enters into the material world. And that is what this verse also says, that I enter into this world and I don’t enter into this world also. So as Paramatma, he enters into the world.
As Bhagawan, he remains beyond this world. And moving forward, there’s much more we could discuss on this verse. But let’s move to the last verse, the chatushloki bhagavata.
So, 36 texts. etāvad eva jijñāsyām tattva jijñāsu nātmanah anvayavyatirekābhyām yasyāt sarvatra sarvadām So, etāvad eva jijñāsyām That person who is enquiring, that person’s enquiry should lead to this conclusion. tattva jijñāsātmanah That person who wants to do tattva jijñāsāt, such a person, anvayavyatirekābhyām anvay means by direct inference and by evatirekā, by indirect inference, or it could be said as positive reasoning and negative reasoning.
Prabhupāda translates it as direct and indirect. anvayavyatirekābhyām yasyāt sarvatra sarvadām It is to this point that they should come to Kandipinuji. At all times, in all places, under all circumstances.
By one’s reasoning, by one using one’s intelligence, one should come to this conclusion. Now, what does this mean? What conclusion has been talked about? The conclusion mentioned in the previous verse. The previous verse said that absolute truth enters into this world and doesn’t enter into this world.
So, this understanding of the absolute truth is the conclusion that we should come to with our intelligence. Now, what this verse is very profoundly you know, it talks about the relationship between human intelligence and divine transcendence. Human intelligence is what we all have for enquiring and learning.
But God is transcendental. He is transcendental. So, can our intelligence appreciate transcendence? Can our intelligence understand transcendence? At one level, it is said that God is beyond our intelligence.
But at another level, it is also said that we are meant to use our intelligence in God’s service. And Bhagavad Gita says at its end in 18.70 that that those who study the sacred conversation of ours, they are they are worshipping me with their intelligence. So, Krishna is not only encouraging us to use our intelligence to study, but he is saying that the intelligence can be a paraphernalia in the worship of Krishna.
Just as we may use in arati, we use diya, we may use a lamp, we may use a fan, we may use flowers for worshipping Krishna. Similarly, when we study scripture, we are using our intelligence as a paraphernalia for worshipping Krishna. That means Krishna definitely recommends the use of the intelligence.
And in fact, this is 18.70 and seven verses before this, in 18.63 also Krishna says Arjuna, therefore, deliberate deeply and after deliberating as you desire so you do. This verse has two very extraordinary points to it. This verse reveals a vision of God who respects human independence and human intelligence.
Krishna is not telling simply, I tell you, you have to do it. He says, use your intelligence to understand it. So, he is respecting human intelligence and secondly, he is respecting human independence.
But that does not mean Krishna wants us to act arbitrarily. But Krishna is ready to submit his knowledge to intellectual scrutiny. In other words, he invites intellectual scrutiny.
Now, when we use our intelligence to understand the absolute truth, certainly intelligence is essential. Because if we don’t have much intelligence, we will just believe the promises of this world. Oh, you eat this, you’ll become happy.
You touch this, you’ll become happy. You enjoy this, you’ll become happy. And we will stay materialists.
So, it requires intelligence to doubt the promises of the material world of pleasure and to look for something beyond. So, intelligence is definitely required. And intelligence is a valuable tool on the spiritual path.
But we cannot use our intelligence to conquer Krishna. We can use our intelligence to serve Krishna, to worship Krishna, to understand him to some extent. We can never understand him completely.
And we cannot conquer Krishna. It’s like sometimes some people play, they have some crossword puzzle that they solve. And once they get it, it’s solved.
Now they have conquered the crossword puzzle. So, we can never conquer Krishna like that. In that sense, Krishna remains beyond our intelligence.
So, we use reasoning, we use logic. Now logic, on the spiritual path, logic should be our minister, not our master. What is the difference between a minister and a master? A minister is someone whose advice we take, whom we consult.
Say, there’s a king. The king consults the minister. But the king ultimately takes a decision on one’s side.
But master is one whom we have to obey. So, logic should be our minister, not our master. That means we definitely use logic to try to understand scripture.
But there will be aspects of scripture which we may not be able to reconcile through logic. At that time, we should not reject them as illogical. There are three levels.
There is illogical, there is logical, and there is translogical. So, illogical means that it’s so absurd, so irrational, that it cannot stand logical scrutiny. But translogical means that which is so lofty that logic can’t stand in front of it.
So, we cannot imprison Krishna through our logic. So, for example, some people say, they try to reduce Krishna Leela to material understanding. They say, oh, the Krishna bhaktas, they wrote that Krishna lifted Govardhan Hill.
Actually, what happened was, when the rains came, Krishna took all of them into a cave. And the cave’s roof was caving in, Krishna held it up. And afterwards, people imagined that actually Krishna had lifted up a mountain.
And now this is unsubstantiated. Somebody may ask, how is it possible? Somebody may ask, how could one small boy have lifted up a whole mountain? And somebody who uses science to be sceptical, they may say, to balance a whole mountain, Krishna would have had to put his finger at the centre of gravity of the mountain. So, how did Krishna find the centre of gravity of Govardhan and put his finger over there? So, now Krishna does not have to find the centre of gravity, because he is the source of gravity.
The source of gravity, the law of gravity is a true law. We accept it works. But it works under Krishna’s jurisdiction.
mayādhyaká¹£ena praká¹›ti sÅ«yate Å›acarācāraṁ hen tu nāme na kaunteya jahit viparivartate So, actually, what Krishna says, there is, Prabhupāda usually focusses in this verse on one aspect, that material nature works under Krishna’s supervision. mayādhyaká¹£ena praká¹›ti. That is definitely true.
And that’s what we talk about and say, that the law of gravity works under Krishna. So, when Krishna wants, the law of gravity will work. When Krishna wants, he will suspend it.
So, in that sense, miracles are not against science. Miracles are above science. We don’t reject science.
We accept that science is true. And the Bhagavad Gita also talks about this when it says, hen tu nāme na kaunteya jahit viparivartate So, what is the cause of all the transformations in material nature? In this world, jagat, they are material nature. So, material nature is the cause of transformation in this world.
And this material nature works under Krishna’s supervision. So, when it says that material nature is the cause of transformations, that means that material nature has its laws. And according to those laws, material nature undergoes transformations.
And we accept that. So, some sceptics or atheists, they say that once you start believing in miracles, then we’ll have to throw all science into the garbage dump. But then, even you use science.
They say that, you know, when you pour water from one vehicle to another vehicle, it’s because of the law of gravity that the water goes down. So, yes, we agree that the law of gravity is what normally works. And even at the time of Krishna, the term law of gravity would not have been there.
But there was an understanding that nature works in a particular orderly way. And that is why the Brajvasis later asked Nanda Maharaj, Krishna is just a seven-year-old boy. How could he lift such a big mountain? And then, of course, the answer is, Nanda Maharaj says how Krishna is God.
But the point is that the very fact that the Brajvasis ask this question means that they understand that there is a normal way in which things work. And in the normal way of things working, such a huge object cannot be lifted by an ordinary person. So, the acknowledgement of the normal orderliness of this world was there even in the Bhakti tradition.
Even in the Vedic texts, it is there. So, when we say that Krishna can perform miracles, that is not against science. That is above science.
In the normal conduct of this world, there are certain laws according to which this world functions. And science discovers those laws. So, we have no issues with those laws.
We fully acknowledge those laws. But what we say is that these laws are working under divine supervision. So, this is what the understanding of trance logic is.
Logically, a small child cannot lift up a mountain. But from the perspective of transcendental logic, the absolute truth can do anything. And that is the glory of the absolute truth.
So, now here, what does this verse say? With our intelligence, we should come to this conclusion. What does this conclusion refer to? This conclusion refers to what was told in the previous verse. The absolute truth enters into this world and doesn’t enter into this world.
That means we accept the inconceivability of the absolute truth. That there are certain aspects of God which we can understand with our intelligence and certain aspects of God which we cannot understand. So, when we talk about achintya, achintya, inconceivable, is a very specific term that is used by Jiva Goswami in our tradition.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself did not use the word achintya-bhedabhed to describe his philosophy. He just gave the teachings and Jiva Goswami systematised those teachings in the Sandarbhas. He said that this teaching was called achintya-bhedabhed.
So, now when Jiva Goswami uses the word achintya, he uses it in a very specific sense. It is not that anything that we can’t understand, any illogicality we can call as achintya. You know, A is to give extreme examples.
You know, if we see some devotee stealing money from the temple, who did he? And we say, oh, this is achintya. Well, this is not achintya. That’s wrong.
How we deal with that is different. That will depend on time and circumstances. But the fact is, we can’t explain it away as achintya.
So, there is obviously there are right and wrong. And if somebody is doing something wrong, that has to be acknowledged as wrong. It is not that anything illogical can be accepted as achintya.
If some devotee starts eating meat, why is the devotee eating meat? This is achintya. Well, it’s not achintya. There is something wrong over there.
We don’t have to judge and condemn the devotee. We have to help the devotee to rectify. But the point is, achintya is not a licence for legitimising anything illogical or anything absurd.
What is achintya? Jaya Goswami explains that there is sometimes in scripture there are two statements. And the two statements they appear contradictory. Just like the statement that the absolute truth enters into the world and the absolute truth doesn’t enter into the world.
These two statements are contradictory. Or rather to us, they appear contradictory. But we understand that scripture is true.
So then how both these statements are true, that I may not be able to understand. So achintyatva is resorted to when when we have two contradictory statements which we both know to be true and we may not be able to conceive how it is happening. How both can be true.
So it is not for any absurd proposition anyone makes that we can call it achintya. It is specifically for two statements which come in shastra. And shastra is understood to be correct.
And then how do we reconcile it? So for example, sometimes serious devotees, very earnest devotees, great Vaishnavas, they may sometimes make terrible accidents. Now why does this happen? That, you can say that we should not judge. If some devotee gets a terrible disease, you start saying, this must be because of their karma.
We should not be judging like that. Never. What we should be thinking is, this is an opportunity for me to serve this Vaishnava.
So our attitude should always be that which is favourable for serving others, for developing a Vaishnava mood. So if something like this happens, if some very senior Vaishnava passes away in a terrible accident, how would this happen? So we understand that Krishna protects his devotees. And yet we are saying that this is happening.
But then we understand that Krishna loves his devotees. But in this case, how that love is manifested, I cannot understand this. It is Achintya.
So when there are two scriptural statements which we know to be true, God is good, this world is a place of suffering. So specifically why certain sufferings come to certain people, that I will not be able to understand. So if we don’t accept Achintya, then we start doubting Krishna.
Now why does Krishna do such things? But if we accept the element of Achintyatva, then actually something wonderful happens. What happens? Okay, I don’t know why this suffering has come to me. But Krishna is there with me to help me to deal with this suffering.
That is the So it is said that Krishna is your mercy. And whatever suffering is going to come to me, it is my own misdeeds. So I was saying that when we see that some suffering is coming upon me, then if we see that Krishna is still with me, Krishna is still merciful to me.
A devotee may out of humility say, oh it is because of my own past karma. I don’t know what this specific past karma is. But still I will focus on trying to take shelter of Krishna.
On trying to take shelter of Krishna. Then we will be able to not only go through the suffering, but we will be able to grow through the suffering. Because at one level, I’ll conclude with this point, that sometimes when scriptures say this world is a place of misery, we all tend to secretly disbelieve it.
Yes, I have experienced misery. Others have experienced misery. But if I just make some adjustments, I will become happy.
We still have the misery. But when misery comes upon us in a way that is unbearable, at that time, we can either doubt Krishna. Why is Krishna allowing this to happen? Or we can actually say that Krishna told it to Bhagavad Gita that this world is a place of misery.
So what Krishna has told in scripture, now I am learning through experience. So then the very existence, very experience of misery, instead of increasing our doubt on Krishna, can increase our faith in Krishna. That what Krishna has told is true.
But the same scripture, if we consider the same verse 8.15 in the Bhagavad Gita, Those great souls who worship me, they do not come back to this miserable material world, but they attain my eternal abode. So if we see the thrust of this verse, the thrust of this verse is not that this world is a place of misery. It’s just like an incidental fact Krishna has told.
Those who become devoted to me, they will come to my eternal abode. They won’t come back to this miserable material world. They will attain my eternal abode.
So Krishna’s point is not to perpetuate our stay in this world, in this miserable material world. Krishna’s point is to assure that if we worship him, we will become free from this miserable material world. And the same thing he repeats in 9.33 also.
अनित्यम् असुखं लोपम् इमं प्राप्य वजस्वमा Now that we have got this temporary unhappy world, God here, worship me and you will come. So Krishna’s point is not to perpetuate the fact that this world is a place of misery or to perpetuate that we have to stay in this miserable material world. But to help us come out of this world.
So Krishna is there to help us. And in that sense, this world will make a hospital. In a hospital, misery is natural.
Misery is present in the hospital but misery is not the purpose of the hospital. The hospital is not made to make people miserable. There is misery but the purpose of the hospital is to cure people of their misery.
Similarly, in this world, this world you can say is like a hospital. And Krishna is like a supreme doctor and his purpose, his treatment ultimately is the process of dharma. So when we practise the process of dharma, by that we get absorbed in Krishna.
When we say practise bhakti, dharma has multiple levels. The highest level is practising bhakti. So when we absorb ourselves in Krishna, by that absorption, we can rise above misery.
The misery will come but we won’t be overwhelmed by that. We will rise above that. And so, when we face misery, first phase we could do is, oh Krishna has told that this world is a miserable place.
Now I am experiencing it. So what Krishna has said is true. But Krishna through scripture also said another thing.
The other thing that he has said is that if we absorb ourselves in him, if we become devoted to him, we will transcend misery. So I have experienced the reality of the first teaching of scripture. Now let me strive to experience the reality of the second teaching of scripture.
The first teaching of scripture is that this world is a place of misery. The second teaching of scripture is that by absorption in Krishna, we can transcend misery. In 18.58 in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says, if you become conscious of me, you will pass over all obstacles by my grace.
So, what happens over here is that Krishna is telling us that he will, not that the obstacles will go away, but rather he will raise us above the obstacles by which we will transcend them. So, this is where achievement comes in. Now, when problems come in our life, if we start asking, why? Why is this happening to me? Now, we can try at a practical level.
This disease has come. Let me try to take the treatment for this. Or some devotee is criticising me.
I try to clarify and I try to deal with the issue. But, if we get too caught in the why, why, why, then we do not acknowledge the achievement of Krishna. And sometimes the why question just does not have answers.
Acknowledging that some questions don’t have answers is actually humility in the domain of the intelligence. Now, one level of humility is coming from the deities and we offer obeisances. We offer obeisances to the devotees.
That’s all good. But, humility in the domain of the intelligence means that I don’t have some answers and I may never have some answers. And the willingness to live with the inability to answer certain questions, that is humility.
And that humility comes when we acknowledge the inconceivability of Krishna. So, what Krishna is doing in my life? I can’t know. I don’t understand what is happening.
So, instead of the why question, why is this happening to me? We shift the focus to the how question. How can I serve Krishna in this situation? And the why question is disempowering. It is frustrating.
And in the light of Achintattva, we may never get the answer. But the how question, okay, this is a circumstance I am in. How can I serve Krishna? How can I serve Krishna? With this understanding, when we move forward, then we will be able to steadily move on and on.
And when there is a big obstacle, there is always some small service I can do. I can at least remember Krishna. I can chant Krishna’s names.
And I can take one step forward, one step forward, one step forward. And then, sometimes when suffering comes, our life seems to be very dark. I don’t know what to do.
But the service attitude, Krishna, how can I serve you now? That becomes like a torchlight. It shows us one step forward. I take that one step forward and again I ask the question.
How can I serve Krishna? I can do this. I can do this. And like that, with that torchlight of the service attitude, we can move forward.
And then, everything in this world is temporary. So even the problems are temporary. And the darkness caused by the problems will disappear.
And again, the light of wisdom, of clarity, will illuminate the path of our life. So in this way, accepting the inconsistency of Krishna can empower us in our life journey. And thus, this verse says, that the purpose of our intelligence is to come to this conclusion of acknowledging the glorious inconceivability of Krishna.
So I’ll summarise. I’ll start by talking about how the first verse talks about, the third verse in the first we discussed today, talks about the relationship between the material world and Krishna, and God, the Absolute Truth. So in Christian theology, this is called as the problem of evil.
How do we compare the goodness of God with the sufferings of this world? The Vedantic school expands this and says that, why look at specific sufferings? Look at the very miseries present in the material world itself. So, why, how does the Satchitananda Brahman give rise to a dukkhalayam jagat? And the answer to that is, Brahman has energies. There is Jagdish, Jeeva and Jagat.
And Jeeva has been given free will to experience real love and to make the free will real, there is an arena for exercising that free will, and that arena is the Jagat. So in the Jagat, when the Jeeva misuses free will, then that misuse of free will leads to moral evil, where people do bad things. And the reactions to the misuse of free will, they come as natural sufferings that come through nature.
So, sufferings are not because of God, they are in spite of God. It’s like a person who is deceased, the beggar who was coughing, it is not because there are no doctors in the city, it is because they are not going to a doctor. And how does going to Krishna relieve us of our sufferings? We discussed the cause of suffering at three levels.
Immediate, like if I have malaria, immediate cause is mosquito. Intermediate, that is my past life karma, past karma. And the ultimate is the forgetfulness of Krishna, disconnection from Krishna.
So, the process of Bhakti Yoga is inclusive. It removes forgetfulness of Krishna by thus addressing the ultimate cause. At the intermediate cause, it gives us higher taste and higher wisdom, by which we don’t do any further bad karma.
So we avoid moral evil. And the natural evil, when sufferings come in any way in our life, by some higher arrangement, at that time absorption in Krishna enables us to tolerate those sufferings. It’s like outside it is hot.
If I come in an air-conditioned room, I feel relieved. So like that, there will be problems. If we keep thinking about the problems, they will grow bigger and bigger.
But if we absorb ourselves in Krishna, they won’t trouble us so much. And lastly, in this way, Krishna Consciousness helps us to address the intermediate cause of the problems. And as far as the immediate problem is concerned, we need material measures to take.
If I have a fracture, I have to do a surgery. But a devotee sees this immediate measure also as working because of the potency of Krishna. Now how does the medicine lead? That is because Krishna adds to the medicine.
And we take the medicine in a mood of service to Krishna. So in this way, Krishna Consciousness is a complete programme wherein Krishna is not the cause of suffering. He is the cure for the suffering.
And in that connection, we discussed about the concept of Achitya. So the next verse talked about how our intelligence should be used to come to the conclusion that God is inconceivable, that God enters into this world and doesn’t enter into this world also. So I discussed how intelligence is essential in the spiritual path because it is only by intelligence, we’ll see through the false promises of the material world and look towards spirituality.
But once we come approach Krishna, our logic should be our minister, not our master. We use logic as an advisor, not as the arbiter of all decisions. So there are things which are illogical which need to be rejected.
But there is illogical, logical and translogical. So when it comes to Krishna, certain things Krishna can do, like he can lift Govardhana. To the uninformed, it may seem illogical.
But to the informed, it is translogical. Krishna, so God’s miracles are not against science, they are about science. And then this was with respect to miracles.
And with respect to Achilte, when is it used? It is not used to rationalise any kind of irrationality. But Achilte is used when there are two scriptural statements, both of which are true, and we don’t understand how they are true. So at that time, we understand that the Acharyas may use some explanation.
Like I gave you examples of, one is two aspects of the absolute truth. One aspect pervades the world, one aspect doesn’t pervade the world. Or Artha Bhakti, a postulation to reconcile to.
So, sometimes Acharyas may give some explanation. And sometimes some statements may just not be understandable. So that we accept as Achilte.
So for example, we understand that Krishna is good and protects his devotees. But at the same time, sometimes devotees suffer. They suffer in terrible ways.
So how do we understand it? This is Achilte. So Achilte means, I accept, it is humility in the intellectual realm, domain, to acknowledge that some questions may not have answers for me. So rather than the why question, rather than obsessing over the why question which has no answers, I turn towards the how question.
How can I serve Krishna in this situation? And amidst the darkness of problems, the how question becomes like a torchlight that shows us one step ahead, one step ahead. And as you keep serving Krishna, keep serving Krishna, then the darkness of the problems will disappear. And we will march onwards in life.
Thus bhakti can enable us not only go through problems but to grow through problems. Thank you very much. Very good Krishna.
Do we have time for questions? Any questions? Maharaj, would you like to comment on this? … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Yeah, that’s true. Thank you for the comment. Any other comments or questions? Yes, sir.
Sir, in this, in the previous plan that you talked about, in this plan, instead of the Yeah, correct. Yeah. So when we say that Krishna exists outside the world, does that mean that Krishna is independent of the world? Yes, of course.
That’s the basic understanding of the absolute truth. So there are, there is a school of thought called pantheism. Means everything is God.
That this word pan means everything. Theism is God. So everything is God.
That’s pantheism. But the Vaishnava understanding or the Vedantic understanding in general is not pantheism. It is, technically the word is panentheism.
Panentheism means God extends through the world and extends beyond the world. So God exists in this world, but He also exists beyond this world. And that’s why this is what we see in 7.19 in the Bhagavad Gita.
Where He says that, So He says that, that after many lifetimes, the Jnanavan, they surrendered to Me. Understanding Vasudev is everything. So, unlovely to say Vasudev is everything.
But they are not going and surrendering to everything. They are surrendering to Krishna. In the Hiranyakashipu Prahlad pastime, Prahlad is asked by Hiranyakashipu, where is your Vishnu? He is everywhere.
Is He in this pillar? Is He there in this pillar also? And then when he hits the pillar, from there Vishnu emerges as Narasimha. But now after this, what does Prahlad do? Prahlad doesn’t go and offer obeisances to that pillar. He doesn’t go and garland that pillar.
He garlands Narasimha that he was emerged from that pillar. So, when you say that, when those who say that, the pantheists who say that God is nature, they presume that God does not have an existence beyond nature. So God’s existence is exhausted by being dissipated in permeating nature.
But that is not the way to understand. So Prahlad says that Hiranyakashipu is there in, sorry, Narasimha is, God is there in this pillar. But then, he will respect the pillar as a abode of the Lord.
But he won’t worship the pillar as God. That is where God manifests from. So he worships God who manifests from there.
Similarly, Vasudeva Sarvamiti, that God is everything. So one way to put it is that God is everything, but everything is not God. That means it’s not that anything and everything we start worshipping.
We respect it, we engage it properly in Krishna’s service, we understand it’s Krishna’s energy. But we don’t treat everything as worshipable in the sense that we see the direct manifestations of God as worshipable. So definitely, when Krishna says, I don’t exist in this world, or I don’t sustain this world, the world is not sustained by me, that means that he is independent of the world.
That is a philosophical truth, but that does not really apply directly over here in this verse. Because it is talking about sustenance. It is not talking about dependence.
Krishna is not talking really about whether I am dependent on the world or not. Krishna is talking about I sustain the world and I don’t sustain the world. So in that sense, the pantheistic idea is not addressed by Krishna at all over it.
But that’s true, the pantheistic idea is wrong. And the Vaishnava understanding is panentheism. That God exists in this world, but God exists beyond this world also.
So thank you very much. Thank you very much. Do you have a question for me? Okay.
Yeah. So, when you talk about Achimithya, how do we explain this to students who study science and they tend to dismiss such things as illogical? Yeah, actually, I think it’s Blaise Pascal who said that a literal immersion in science, a literal science takes people away from God. But immersion in science brings people back to God.
So what happens, people who know a little bit of science, they say this is scientific and this is unscientific. This whole God, God’s pastime, all this is unscientific. I don’t believe in it.
I reject it as unscientific. But if people go deep into science, then even in science, scientists acknowledge that there are many things which we can’t understand. So for example, today in physics, there are two fundamental theories about how physics works or how matter works.
One is called quantum physics and the other is relativity physics. Now, actually, according to relativity physics, it’s basically that there are different particles existing and particles come together as molecules. And that’s how the world around us exists.
That’s basically relativity physics. But according to quantum physics, there is no such thing as particles. There is simply waves.
So for example, there is no such thing as a mic existing. But when I look at the mic, the waves that comprise the mic, they collapse and they give me the perception of a mic. Now, Einstein was a proponent of relativity and he did not like quantum physics at all.
So he, one of the most scathing critics of quantum physics was, he said, I would like to believe that the moon continues to exist even when I am not looking at it. So obviously, the moon continues to exist. Now, quantum physics, if you look at it purely from the point of logic, it just doesn’t make sense.
And yet, quantum physics works. It works phenomenally well. Now, through quantum physics, you know, scientists can actually measure to within a millimetre the distance of some coral reef somewhere far away in the Indian Ocean from America.
Just to give you an extreme example. The point is, mathematically, it works very well. But in terms of making sense, in terms of the way we observe the world, it doesn’t make any sense.
There is a famous, I think there was a lederman who was a famous quantum physicist. One of his students asked him, sir, how do you make sense of this? So he said, his reply has become immortal. He says, stop thinking, start calculating.
Stop thinking, start calculating. What it means is, the equations of quantum physics work phenomenally well. But the picture that quantum physics gives of the world, it doesn’t make any sense.
So to put it in our epistemology, our way of looking at the world, you know, relativity agrees with Praptakshya Pramana to a large extent. Relativity explains the world as we see it. Quantum physics explains the world in terms of theories, in terms of theories which are expressed in the language of mathematics.
So it explains the world, you could say, in terms of Hanuman, it is speculation, the world is like this, the world is like that. But it doesn’t gel with Praptakshya. So currently, how do scientists work? Actually, these two theories are just not reconciled.
They are violently contradictory. Stephen Hawking gave his life to trying to come up with a grand theory of everything, GT as it is called. But even he gave up.
And of course, he masked his abandonment in a very clever statement. He said, I am happy to announce that humanity’s quest for knowledge will never end. This was his way.
Now, of course, I think the New York Times wrote an article about it. They said, even he gives up. Hawking gives up.
But the point is, currently scientists, they just, they say, most serious scientists, those who are really understanding what theories are, they say science does not tell us anything about reality. Science gives us models of reality. Now, how those models actually correlate with reality, no one knows.
So by a model of reality, what I mean is that it’s like a map. I can have a political map of America, which will show the various states, various districts. And then I can have a topographical map of America, which will show completely different.
Here there is a mountain, here there is a river, here there is a creek. So if we look at it, there might be some broad features which are similar, but many of the specific details will be very different. Now, both maps are true.
And the reality of America is both of this and more. So the reality of America, I can’t just understand through any one map. Just as maps give us some understanding of the territory, of the reality.
Similarly, science offers us models, which gives us a working understanding of some aspects of reality. And these two are not reconcilable. And although they are not reconcilable, although quantum physics doesn’t make sense in terms of the way we picturise the world, still scientists don’t reject quantum physics.
And not because quantum physics works very well, but it doesn’t gel with the relativity. Scientists don’t reject relativity also. So scientists also learn to live with contradiction.
They don’t discuss business one as logical and others as illogical. They say both are true and they both work in different domains. So the operating principle of science at present is, whichever theory works, use it.
So especially with respect to cosmic distances, relativity works. That’s what they use. With respect to microscopic measurements, it is quantum physics which works.
Now all this is a very simplified analysis I am giving. But the principle underlying that I am saying is, even those who go deep into science, they acknowledge that even the material world can’t be understood exhaustively. Even while studying the material world, and even by studying it with a methodology like science, which is inherently sceptical, even with such a methodology, scientists do accept that certain things we can’t understand.
And because they work, we use it. So similarly, when we come to some statements in scripture, or some aspects of scripture, which we can’t understand. So what we should focus on is, if we consider your scriptural teaching to be like a broad circle, in which we will see, if we can divide it into three sectors.
One sector is that which is logical. Second is that which seems illogical. Or rather, we just break it into two sections.
One which makes sense according to logic, something which doesn’t make sense according to logic. So, you know, the three sections which make sense according to logic, they work, they benefit us, they transform us. If we chant Hare Krishna, we experience happiness.
Our cravings, our addictions, they fall away. We get benefited. If I have excessive anger, there is no medicine available, which I can just take a pill or take a medicine, and my anger will go away.
But if I chant Hare Krishna, I do get purified of anger. So, we are benefited. It’s a practical benefit that comes for us.
So in general, what we should do is, we focus on the working benefits of practising Krishna consciousness. And initially at least, we focus on the operational potency. At least this aspect of scripture makes sense, and this aspect works.
And try it out. When people try it out, they get benefited. Then their faith increases, they become more open.
This is not just a mythology. Maybe there is some deeper wisdom over here which I don’t understand. So we shouldn’t initially present ourselves, present those things which people will find it very difficult to understand.
There is a very nice conversation of Shri Prabhupada. Once one devotee asked him, that Prabhupada, when we go to the scholars and we tell them that Maharaj Ugrasen had some trillions of servants, they laugh at us. And they say, how could so many people live in Dwarka? Where were their rooms? Where were their toilets? How could they live over there? Now Prabhupada could have answered in many different ways.
Prabhupada could have said, Krishna is achintya. Krishna can maintain an unlimited number of people in Dwarka. But Prabhupada gave a very pragmatic answer.
He said, among all the thousands of verses in the Bhagavatam, was that the only thing that you found to speak to the scholars? Was that the only thing you found to speak to the scholars? Now it is not that we deny this, but there is a time and place for explaining these things. So we focus on those things which make sense to people and which can help people to benefit themselves, which help them become better. And when they see that it works, and it works in a way, it helps them in a way that science cannot help them actually.
Then they understand that this is also a valuable body of knowledge. This is also a good body of knowledge. Then their initial dismissive scepticism, that decreases.
And then when the difficult sections, the sections of scripture which seem illogical, that come up to them. At that time, they will be able to accept that there is something inconceivable also. So generally, in our presentations, we should focus on the aspect which makes sense and which practically works.
And if people ask questions about how to make sense of this thing which seems illogical, then we can tell that this is a deep body of knowledge. And you can understand this gradually as you keep practising. And in any body of knowledge, even in science, there are scientists who accept that some things are not understandable to us.
So the problem comes when we present scripture as right and science as wrong. We don’t have to do that. Scripture and science are talking about the same universe but in different ways.
So it’s not that quantum physics is right and relativity is wrong. Just as within science itself, there can be two models of the universe, two models of nature, and both have their own validity. So like that, if scripture tells something which seems difficult for people to understand, this is a different way of looking at the world.
We may not understand it right now, but the scripture helps us to make a better sense of the world as we see it. And it helps us to become better in our life. So I say that science can make things better, but spirituality can make people better.
Science may provide better gadgets. Now whether those gadgets are better in the long run, whether they have more ecological harmful consequences, that’s a different issue. But we have to choose our battles when we go to new people.
So if you start telling science itself is bad, then they will get alienated. So then we can say, okay, science can make things better. To some extent, it can.
Many diseases have been cured. There’s no need to fight a war on all fronts at the same time. Science can make things better, but spirituality can make people better.
Our own negativity, our own anger, our own unwarranted or addictive cravings, they all can be cured by spiritual practise. And that way, by not highlighting difficult to accept sanctions, and by focussing on sanctions which help people, then they can develop faith and by that they can move onwards towards Krishna. Bhaktivinoda Thakur uses this approach while talking about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s divinity.
Now he’s written a book about the life and teachings of Lord Chaitanya. And he says in the beginning, as far as the Vaishnavas are concerned, they accept that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is God. He is Vishnu himself.
And for them, the many miracles that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu performed, they are the proof of his divinity. But we acknowledge that miracles alone are not the proof of divinity. Because even demons like Ravana perform miracles like changing his form.
So the essence is that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has given a path of love. And by practising this path, by applying this message of spiritual love, of divine love, of bhakti, our heart can become flooded with love. And irrespective of the question of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s divinity, we urge our readers to study this message of love and flood their hearts with the love that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has come to offer.
So it’s a very broad approach. He’s not denying Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s divinity. He’s accepting it, but he’s not imposing it.
He’s saying this is what works. You chant Hare Krishna, you practise bhakti yoga, you will experience love of Krishna. And then when that happens, the many other questions, they get automatically answered or they become irrelevant.
So like that, what people have difficulty in accepting, we downplay that. We don’t emphasise that in their face initially. We focus on that which helps them benefit and that builds their faith.
And then eventually they will be able to address the other questions also. Does that answer your question? Thank you very much. Shri Prabhupada ki, Gaur Bhakta Vrinda ki, Jai Gaur Premanand.