From dharma to prema
Respond.
translation of dharma is morality, translation of prema is spirituality, but that is a very generic thing. You just have to look in a broader sense. First of all, prema is also a dharma.
So what do we actually mean when we say it rise from dharma to prema? The word dharma has many meanings. So overall, the way I am going to do this retreat is, the morning class, the first class in the morning, will be philosophical and analytical. We will be discussing concepts.
And the next two classes which we will have, the second class in the morning will be based on grammar questions where we can understand those principles through certain examples. So here we will be discussing the concept of dharma and how it relates to prema. So, in the morning.
So, now, first of all, when you say from dharma to prema, is prema not a dharma? Prema is also a dharma. But prema is para-dharma. So the para-dharma means the para is higher but uncertain.
And this word para-dharma is introduced in the Bhagavatam, 2nd chapter, 1st canto, 6th verse, where it says, So that is the para-dharma by which the Supreme Lord is served without imitation, without interruption. And that dharma, the heart and soul become fully satisfied by such practise of devotion. So at this level, we talk about unmotivated, uninterrupted devotion.
That is actually prema. So, prema is dharma, but it is para-dharma, the highest level of dharma. And that is what we aspire to achieve.
And Krishna also talks about this in the Bhagavad Gita, in the conclusion, when he says, in 18.66, So he says, Give up all dharmas, and this is surrender to me. So there are some, some Hindu commentators on the Bhagavad Gita, they just can't digest this verse. They say, how can God tell us to give up dharma? They say that probably when the Bhagavad Gita was written down over the generations, someone later on left out, and they tried to change, Yes, rightly we have to give up all religion, but why Krishna is saying, He is not asking us to give up.
When he says to give up dharma, that does not mean he wants us to become other people. We will discuss later on, technicalities of what Krishna means when he says, But essentially, what Krishna is saying here is, That is the essential message. That, surrender to me.
Shri Raghupati would say that, even the hippies have practised, that they have given up their family, society, career, nation, but they are not practising Maha Vaikuntha. They are not surrendering to Shri Raghupati. So the point of this is, Krishna is telling us to basically go from, the ordinary lessons of the word dharma, which we will discuss a little later on, to go to Paradhana.
So essentially, Bhagavad Gita 18.66 and Bhagavad Gita 1.26, both are talking of the same theme, that we should rise to the level of Paradhana, that is we should rise to the level of Prem. So there are many dharmas, and all those dharmas, they are meant ultimately, to raise us to the level of Paradhana. So if we look at, the Bhagavad Gita itself, it starts with a, ethical conflict for Arjuna, that he is caught between two yukhis.
To understand that, let's look at some other meanings of the word dharma. Go ahead. The dharma word has many meanings.
There is a normal meaning, which we use in the sense of religion. So we say Hindu dharma, Christian dharma, Muslim dharma. There is a conversational sense, in which we use the word dharma, which is one meaning.
Another is as law. Law or we could say, yukhi. Law is usually today, in the sense of, outer imposition or outer expectation.
This is the law, you could follow it. But there can also be inner law, in terms of what we are expected to do. That becomes yukhi.
So law and yukhi, they are more or less similar. This is normal sense. This is your dharma, you should do it.
You should not give it up. Then there is also, when Krishna says, I have come to establish dharma, dharma sanshaanadvayam, sambhavaham me me me. When he says this, what does it mean? He has come to establish law and order.
Now, normally we say that, police are, some riots have broken up somewhere. Law and order has to be restored. So law and order, normally we often use the word simultaneously.
But law is meant to establish order. So order is something which is, everything is going on in an orderly systematic way. That will happen when everybody is following, whatever the laws, whatever the ways in which it should operate.
So Krishna comes to establish order. And for establishing order, what does he do? paritranaya sadhuna vinanshaya jyotam. That is, those who are contributing to order, he empowers them.
And those who are disrupting the order, he disempowers them. So those who are contributing to order means, they are following the laws. They want to follow the laws.
Those who want to disrupt the laws, Krishna disempowers them. So that is another meaning of the word dharma, that is order. Another meaning is nature.
Aishwarya Prabhupada would often use the word dharma in this meaning. Nature means that which is natural for us. So in the introduction to the Mahabharata, Aishwarya Prabhupada explained that dharma means that without which a thing will not be that thing.
To put it simply, that this is fire, if we say this has no heat and this has no light, we say how can we define it? Fire is defined by heat and light. Water is defined by liquid. So things have their innate nature.
And it is that innate nature which makes the thing what it is. And Prabhupada uses the word dharma in that sense. Now this meaning of the word dharma, as nature, has two aspects to it.
We have our spiritual nature and we have our bodily nature. As part of our spiritual nature, we are souls and it is natural for us as souls to love Krishna. Aishwarya Prabhupada primarily focusses on that.
Every living being has an innate nature to love and to be loved. And this is what drives all our activities. We may acquire wealth, we may acquire education, we may acquire power.
All these are because we want to become more lovable and we want to love and be loved. So this is our nature. So Prabhupada explains that our dharma is, in the innermost spiritual sense, it is to love and be loved.
And in the Vishwa Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita introduction says that dharma is there and then sanatana. Sanatana dharma is that which is our eternal nature. So to love and be loved is our nature and this is what everyone in the world is doing.
But everyone is not directing their nature towards the eternal object of love. So when we direct our longing to love and be loved towards Krishna, towards the supreme eternal object of love, then we rise to the level of sanatana dharma. So the process of bhakti is to eventually practise sanatana dharma.
So to make this, if it seems a little confusing, I'll try to make it a little simpler in the next slide in terms of how this applies to us. So there are various meanings of the word dharma but we can broadly classify them into three levels. So the paradharma is our goal.
Dharma as our future goal. That means we all want to develop love for Krishna. So if we are at this level of consciousness, sentimental level of consciousness, at the spiritual level of consciousness, it is natural for us to love Krishna.
As we become more and more unified, we'll naturally be attracted to Krishna. Lal Malar Singh just said it is natural for iron filing to be attracted towards a magnet. Similarly, I'm naturally attracted towards Krishna.
Nobody has taught me this. This is naturally what I have. So that is our goal.
So in that sense dharma, dharma of prayer. So dharma, when I'm talking about this word, you could envision dharma as a big circle where there are many meanings of the word dharma. And from that circle, if you consider it like this, it's a pyramid which is moving upward, upward, upwards.
And at the peak is prema. So from the bottom, we move upwards, upwards by understanding and practising our various dharmas. We want to raise our consciousness to come to the level of prema.
So prema is also dharma, but prema is the culmination of dharma. And that is what we want to aspire for. Now, dharma is also the process to that goal.
So for example, when we practise sadhanam, so when we start, when we take this mission, we take certain vows, we chant 16 rounds, I fall away from this position. Basically, when you practise sadhanam, that is also our dharma. ये तु धर्मां भृत्रिदं इथोक्तं परिपासते शद्धा नाना मत्परवां तास्ते कियों ने किया In the last verse of the 12th chapter, 12.23, Krishna says that those who practise bhakti, they are practising dharmam bhrutam.
This is the immortal dharma. This is the innate dharma of the soul. And इथोक्तं परिपासते So as I have spoken this, when they practise it, they worship this dharma, they make it their heart and soul, then शद्धा नाना मत्परवां with great faith they make me their ultimate goal.
भक्तास्ते थीवो में They are extremely dear to me. So even when, it is not that Krishna allows only his pure devotees. Anyone who starts practising bhakti also, Krishna considers them very dear because they are very rare souls.
वश्वानां सभस्रेशु कश्चिर्णिविषिद्धानां तमाँ विषिद्धानां कश्चिर्णिविषिद्धानां Among thousands and thousands of people, few endeavour the spiritual life. And even among those who endeavour for knowing the truth, those who actually come to understand Krishna and Vedas, start devoting themselves to it every day. So this is the spiritual level of consciousness, which is the dharma which we want to attain.
Then there is the साधना, which we practise, which is primarily I am present of devotion to this. That will raise our consciousness from here to there. Now along with that, there is dharma also.
It is not that devotees are only practising sadhana. We also have our duties in this world. And those duties, when we do them, this helps to maintain order in our lives.
In our society, in our family, in our job, we are practising devotees. That means we want to go beyond mental consciousness to spiritual consciousness. But during the process, we are living in this world.
And we need to function in a way by which we maintain the order in our lives so that we can practise vichar. So dharma as present order maintainer, that is aparadhan. Aparadhan means we have to do adityas to our children, adityas to our parents, adityas to our spouses.
They are also dharma. And they are also important. So now when Krishna tells Arjuna, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam sarvam.
Give up all varieties of religion and just surrender to me. So what is he telling? Actually we have to look back. The Bhagavad Gita is in the 6th parava of the Mahabharata.
It is called the Bhishma parava. Before that is the parava which is called Udyoga parava. Udyoga parava means, Udyoga is actually activity or industrious activities.
So in this Udyoga parava, two things are happening. One is that the Pandavas are striving for peace. They are trying to have peace negotiations.
And secondly, they are also making alliances to prepare for war. Normally if an army is at the war field, where the enemy is on the other side, then the army is operated by the strategy that, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. No army really wants to fight war, because war involves bloodshed and destruction.
So they hope for the best. The Pandavas were hoping that by peaceful means, by some negotiations, they could resolve the issue. But at the same time, they knew that it was unlikely that Duryodhana would mend his means.
So they were also preparing for the worst. And at that time, while they are doing this, hoping for the best and preparing for the worst, there are discussions between especially Vishwamaharaj and Krishna. And the same doubts that Arjuna expresses in the first chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna, Yudhishthira explains, expresses in the Udyoga parava.
And what is his doubt? He says that basically I have two duties. There is his Kshatriya dharma and there is his Pula dharma. Kshatriya dharma, in our life, we play many roles.
We have a role in the office as a professional. We have a role in the family as a family member. We may have a role in the broader community, in the society where we live.
So we all have different roles. So like that, now the Pandavas, their conflict, which was also Arjuna's conflict in the first chapter of the Gita, was that as a Kshatriya, somebody is an aggressor, somebody has attacked them and somebody is acting adharmic. They have to fight and counter them.
That is the Kshatriya dharma. But there is also his Pula dharma. Pula dharma is that normally if we have our family, if we have our relatives, then we help them.
Now we basically, our relatives comprise a bigger family for us and it is a normal human duty to help one's relatives. So the Pula dharma was one should help one's relative. How can one fight against one's relative? How can one fight one's relative to the point of death? And especially how could he fight against his elders? So Arjuna's Pula dharma impelled him that I should not fight.
But his Kshatriya dharma was I should fight. So there is this conflict which is going on now. And he had to resolve this conflict.
So there are different kinds of conflicts that we go through in life. There is moral conflict and there is ethical conflict. So moral conflict means that we have two choices.
One is moral, the other is immoral. Say, usually in a moral conflict, the choice is related. What is right and what is wrong is fair and equal.
Say for example, if a doctor is treating a patient, say a mentally ill patient, and the relatives come and tell him, the relatives of the mentally ill patient who are going to inherit the property listed of that mentally ill patient after he dies, they come and tell him, you can just do the treatment in such a way that his life is not going to go wrong. Now, then there is nothing to do. But later they say, we are going to get this much and we will give this much.
Now here, for the doctor, what is right and what is wrong is very clear. The doctor is going to protect the life of the patient. That is moral and professional duty of a doctor.
But at that time, if the doctor succumbs, this is a moral conflict. One thing is right, other is wrong. Basically, one needs inner strength of character.
One needs inner strength to resolve a moral conflict. One knows what is the right thing to do, but one is not able to do it. Duryodhana says this also.
जानामिः सत्यम् नचमेः प्रवृत्ति जानामिः धर्मां नचमेः प्रवृत्ति जानामिः धर्मां नचमेः उदू So what he says is, I know what is dharma, but I don't feel attracted. I know what is adharma, but I don't feel like giving it. So now interestingly, Duryodhana, what he uses, his reasoning is, he is not even Ayyama dharmic.
When he has this discussion, this happens actually in the in the Jyot Paramita, Krishna Vrishanti. So he says that, okay, you are saying this is dharma, this is adharma. So he says, okay.
But he is speaking to Krishna and he says, if I am naturally attracted to adharma and I am not attracted to dharma, that means the creator has made me this way. And because the creator has made me this way, I am acting according to my nature. Why are you criticising me for acting according to my nature? So what Duryodhana conveniently misses out is, that actually we have a lower nature and we have a higher nature.
When we say something is natural for me, we cannot just justify any and every of our mistakes by saying it is natural for me. We will talk about this lower and higher nature elaborately in later sessions. But the point which I am making here is, that there is the concept of ethical conflict and moral conflict.
Moral conflict means, what is right and what is wrong is clear enough. One just needs the strength of character to derive it. But apart from moral conflict, there is ethical conflict.
Ethical conflict means, there are two choices and both of them have something to recommend. Both of them may be right. And at that time to decide which is more right, which is the best thing to do, that is not so easy.
So for example, somebody may say, I always speak the truth. Now speaking the truth is a good thing to do. But suppose, there are riots in a city and there is a person who is being targeted by the rioters and he is your friend and he comes to your house and you hide him in a corner of your house.
And then the rioters come and they knock on your door. And you say, is he lying to you? Should we speak the truth at that time? Speaking truth is good. But in this case, there is another ethical principle, that is protecting life.
So in this case, if one has to make a decision, one has to understand which is a higher moral principle. Speaking the truth is a moral principle. Protecting other's life is also a moral principle.
And when we have to choose between two moral principles, at that time one doesn't just need strength of character. One also needs clarity of intelligence. One needs to have a proper intelligence to understand which is the higher moral principle.
So an ethical crisis is actually a much more difficult to deal with. Of course, in this particular situation, it is simple, just protect the life of the person. So now truthfulness is good.
One of the consistent messages from the Mahabharata. Many people ask, why did the Pandavas also act immorally like killing the Kauravas? So there are reasons for that. But a broad principle is, in the Mahabharata, that morality is not categorical.
Morality is contextual. What does this mean? Categorical means that this is moral, this is immoral. This is one category, this is another category.
So morality is not just categorical at all. Speaking the truth will always be moral and speaking a lie will always be immoral. Life is not as simple as that.
So morality is not categorical. It is contextual. Contextual means, speaking the truth in a normal situation will be moral.
But if speaking the truth is going to cost the life of someone, then at that time the same activity will no longer fall in the category of the right thing, the moral thing. It will fall in the category of the immoral thing. That's why morality is not categorical.
It is contextual. Now why are we discussing all this? Because morality is also one meaning of dharma. And Arjuna, at the start of the Bhagavad Gita, was facing an ethical crisis.
The ethical crisis was, should I do my duty as a Kshatriya, which is what I should be doing as a Kshatriya, or should I do my duty as a member of my Kula? As a Kuru Nanda, as a member of the Kuru dynasty. It is my duty to protect my dynasty. So both of these and his duties.
So it was not that Arjuna was a coward who became fearful of fighting a war. Sometimes when, especially when say some soldiers are drafted into the army by government fiat, then they actually go in the army, but when they are about to fight, they get a terrible attack of nerves. How can I fight? How can I kill? What will happen to me? So there, there is suddenly fear of the loss of life.
Of course, it's an actual human reaction. And it's not to be condemned. But the point is, Arjuna was not facing a case of nerves or a fear of loss of life.
Arjuna's problem was much deeper. His problem was that there is my Kshatriya Dharma and there is my Kula Dharma. So which should I be following? And he felt, okay, if I follow the Kshatriya Dharma, I might get a kingdom.
And I might rule the kingdom. But, while ruling the kingdom, if I am losing my relatives, if, as he says, gunjiya bhogan dhir pratiknam since the spoils of war are being tainted by the blood of my loved ones, then what is the use of the Kshatriya Dharma? With his reasoning, he felt that nahi prabhasyanam aap vidyane chokham chojanam niryanam avaapya bhumama sattanam rajyam suranam he says, what to speak of this earthly kingdom? He says that even if I attain the heavens, what am I going to gain by it? Because, that which is dear to me is my own relatives. No one belongs to me.
So, Arjuna's crisis was that he had two roles. And the obligations that he had in those two roles, they were nothing contrary to him. And he did not know what to do.
So, initially he felt that I should not fight. But then he realised that he also got the right to do it. So, he came in this axis.
And he said, I will not fight till I am able to resolve what I am doing. And you see, in 2.7, in the verse which Raghupada Raman quotes, the killing is, he says, prichyamitvam dharmasamudh chetah karman vidhoshyam bhahtasubhavam prichyamitvam dharmasamudh chetah yashvayasya nishyatam karuntam me shishyas te bhaum shadi maakam prapannam He says, I surrender to you, shadi, I am going to recycle, I am going to instruct you, shishyas te, what are you going to instruct me? prichyamitvam dharma I am asking you, what is dharma? What is dharma? And what type of dharma? Yashvayasya, that which will lead to long term good. So, Arjuna is here asking, which dharma should I follow? What is the dharma for me right now, which will lead to my long term good? So, in fact, not just the Bhagavad Gita, but the whole Mahabharata, every book, every scripture has a defining question to it, which animates the question.
Ramayana, for example, we will discuss more later, Ramayana's defining question is, is there any person with ideal character? And in answer to that, Narapura tells Valmiki Vishnu, both are wrong. So, the Mahabharata's defining question is, what is dharma? And all the incidents in the Mahabharata, they essentially illustrate understandings, partial understandings and misunderstandings about dharma. Bhagavad Gita is a very dramatic situation.
Bhagavad Gita is a conversation spoken in a very dramatic setting where a war is about to take place. And at that time, Arjuna is not sure about what his dharma is. Arjuna gets overwhelmed.
That means, he is asking, what is dharma? He is not asking what I should do. He is asking on what basis should I be deciding what I should do? See, all of us have our own basis. For example, you know, you decided to come for a visit.
Some other people may decide not to come for a visit. Some other people may decide to go somewhere else. Some other people may decide to become devotees.
Some other people may decide not to become devotees. So now, all of us take decisions. And, you know, some of our decisions may be impulsive.
I felt like doing it. But we have certain dispositions. Our decisions grow from our dispositions.
Disposition means basically attitudes, our worldview, our values. They determine our decisions. So Arjuna is not asking a single question.
His question in 2.7 is not should I fight or should I not fight. It is very significant. Arjuna has come to the battlefield and he is about to decide, I'll not fight.
But when he surrenders to Krishna, he doesn't ask Krishna simply, should I fight or should I not fight. He is asking what is dharma? And it is this question that makes the Bhagavad Gita universally relevant. Like just a soldier, just a warrior had got a case of nerves and had not wanted to fight.
And some other friend told him, fight. Now that would not have made a book immortal. What made the Bhagavad Gita immortal is, Arjuna is asking not just should I fight or not fight.
He is asking what is dharma? And Krishna's answer is also very universal. Nowadays, there is so much religious violence in the world. Violence in the name of religion.
there especially in Islam there is the concept of, by some interpretation of Islam, there is the concept of Jihad, which is war against others. So in the western intellectual tradition, sometimes Islam and Hinduism are not together. Islam also calls for war and primarily the book of Hinduism, that is also called for.
That's what people are doing. But actually if we see, the Bhagavad Gita, it is not primarily a call for war. Because the Bhagavad Gita quickly moves beyond the battle field setting.
The battle field setting is described in the first chapter. But after the second chapter, where Krishna tells Arjuna to fight, there are very very few references to Krishna telling Arjuna to fight. At the end of the fourth chapter, once Krishna says, therefore Arjuna should fight.
He says, therefore Arjuna, rise and fight. But here also it is very significant, Arjuna has put aside his Gandiva bow. And he is saying, in 1.46 he said, put aside my bow and he said, I cannot fight.
He is filled with grief. And here in 4.42, when Krishna tells Arjuna to fight, Krishna tells him, pick up your Gandiva bow and fight. He says, actually take the sword of knowledge.
He says, When the sword of knowledge, what should you do? With the sword of knowledge, cut off doubt. The doubt which has come from the sword of knowledge. So when Krishna is calling for war also, what did he tell Arjuna? Arjuna, use this sword of knowledge to cut off the ignorance that is arising, the doubts which are arising out of ignorance and then fight.
So the Bhagavad Gita is not primarily a call for outer war. It is a call, if you don't know what to say, for inner war. Inner war against ignorance.
Ignorance which leads to indecision. And after that, there is only the 11th chapter where Krishna displays his Virata Rupa in which he shows how all the war is naked. But practically, after that 4th chapter reference, there is no reference anywhere in the Bhagavad Gita where Krishna does not want to fight.
Of course, in the 8th chapter, Krishna says Remember me and fight. But that is primarily, the whole focus is devotion. Remember me.
If the intelligence I might have devoted to me, you will come to me. So, in the focus of that verse also, you will come to me. Just do your duty.
And this duty happens, you fight. So the point of the Bhagavad Gita is, after even the 18th chapter, when the Bhagavad Gita ends, Krishna doesn't give any call Arjuna and all, why is he up in the fight? Krishna's discussion has gone to a far higher level than the individual war. It has become Krishna.
Nowadays, there are teachers who have experiential learning. That maybe we should not filter it or make them do certain things, by which they can learn. So, Krishna is the ultimate experiential teacher.
The ultimate expert in experiential learning. What does he do? He transforms a battlefield into a classroom. He transforms the battlefield into a classroom and as the discussion progresses, by his presence and by his presentation, Krishna raises Arjuna far above the battlefield.
And they discuss universal subjects at such a depth, like few times before or after the world history, the subjects have been discussed. And we see that with the response of Arjuna also, after Krishna completes the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna does not ask Arjuna, are you ready to fight now? What does Krishna ask Arjuna? पच्चिदेत चुतं पार्थ कोई एकाग्रेन चेत सा पच्चिदेत चुतं पार्थ कोई एकाग्रेन चेत सा पच्चिदेत चुतं पार्थ कोई एकाग्रेन चेत सा पच्चिदेत चुतं पार्थ कोई एकाग्रेन चेत सा So, have you attained the state of nirasamani? That's what Krishna is asking Arjuna. Have you become absorbed? And therefore, has your ignorance been destroyed? Has your doubts been dissipated? He is not asking if you will fight or not.
And Arjuna's response is also what? नश्टों बोह्धस्यते लग्धा तक प्रसारान यार्चिता सिदावस्यत संदेखा करिष्येम चिनंदवा I will do your will. So what Krishna's will is, that will vary according to your primary circumstances. Bhagavad Gita's message is not to fight.
Bhagavad Gita's message is that to do the divine will. To surrender to God. So when Krishna tells Arjuna, सर्वधर्मात्मरित्यमामेकं सर्वधर्मात्मरित्यमामेकं Give up all values of Buddhism.
That does not mean that he is telling Arjuna become Adaharik. It does not mean neglect your Dharma. So Krishna tells Arjuna, okay you have your Kshatriya Dharma, you have your Kula Dharma.
And you are wondering which one to choose. So Krishna tells that give up all your conception of Dharma and do that activity which will enable you to do Mahamir Kamsa Yajna. So in the case of Arjuna, for him the way to surrender to Krishna was by doing his Kshatriya Dharma.
By fighting the war. That's why he fought the war. So let's go ahead.
So from Dharma to Prema when we say, we want to go to the Paradharma of Prema. And this does not mean that you neglect the Aparadharma. In Arjuna's case, the Aparadharma was as a Kshatriya and as a member of the Yaduguna.
So in the specific case of the war, what happened is for him, choosing Kshatriya Dharma was the way to practise Bhakti. Choosing Kshatriya Dharma was the way he would become elevated. And there is Aparadharma and there is the Sadhana Dharma.
Sadhana Dharma means that we have our Sadhana Bhakti. So Aparadharma when we practise, that also elevates us. It is not that only our practise of Bhakti elevates us.
Our practise of Bhakti is definitely idle. But it is our practise of Aparadharma, our only duty is they also purify us. How they purify us, we will discuss a little later.
Krishna Prabhupada at one level he always talked about how we should practise devotional service. Krishna Prabhupada was an expert in inspiring people to practise devotional service in various ways. Sometimes people have the idea that I have to practise Bhakti means I have to give up everything else.
That's not the understanding of Aparadharma. Bhakti means everything else in our life is connected with Krishna. It is not that we give up everything else for Krishna.
We give everything that we have in connection with Krishna. So now it's interesting, Krishna tells in the Bhagavad Gita in 2.30 that you are not the one. And here, immediately in the next verse 2.40 what is he telling? So normally we tolerate, that's what Krishna said.
But significantly he uses two names for Arjuna. One is Bharata and other is Kaunteya. And both are related with the body.
Just now Krishna told Arjuna you are not the body and immediately he said you are the son of Kunti and you are a descendant in the Bharata dynasty. So what is going on here? At one level Krishna is telling you are not the body and then he is referring to Arjuna based on the body. The point is that although we may intellectually understand I am not the body.
We are still living in the body. And we have to act according to the body connection, the body disposition, the body nature. So the Bhagavad Gita's mood is yes, Arjuna acting in his disposition is not easy.
But you are an illustrious person. You are born in an illustrious family. Therefore, because you are son of Kunti, you can do something that is difficult.
What is that? Tolerate material love. Tolerate material pleasure. You are in a glorious dynasty therefore tolerate.
Krishna Prabhupada also knew this. He would not take whatever would be people's conditional identity in devotional service. So for example when he came to India with his rest of the disciples in the early days when he was preaching in India, he would say Bhagavad Gita is a sacred book which has come from India and here to teach Bhagavad Gita in India I have to bring people from America.
He says, what are you doing? You come, you study the Bhagavad Gita you teach the Bhagavad Gita. The whole world is a market for you. And one day Prabhupada was addressing a gathering of nationalists and he said that Prabhupada was basically interested in inspiring people to practise bhakti, whatever be their conceptions.
So he said that no you Indians, you are afraid or you are lamenting even now that when India was partitioned, India lost Pakistan. Pakistan was a part of our country but we lost Pakistan. He said that if you study the Bhagavad Gita if you teach the Bhagavad Gita the whole world will become Hinduism.
Pakistan, the whole world will start practising Bhagavad Gita. They were very fired up. Yes, we should do this.
And same thing, Prabhupada when he was organising the Rippon Dal Festival and private devotees assisting him wherever he goes. And the American devotees in India had a lot of difficulty. First of all, language itself was difficult.
And then, America couldn't happen much more professionally. And in India, nothing seemed to happen. So they were getting disheartened.
And Prabhupada told them to do a big festival, Rippon Dal Festival. And they said, Prabhupada, we are not able to get permission to get water in our temple. We are asking us to hold a big festival.
How can we do that? Prabhupada said, Indians admire Americans as being very wonderful people. They can do all wonderful things. So you are an Indian.
What is the use of your being Americans if you can't do something wonderful professionally? So, the idea is, Prabhupada, in other contexts, we say that you are not an Indian or you are not an American. But, when we are practising bhakti, intellectually we understand as our ultimate goal, I have to transcend the bodily identity. But right now, I have bodily identity.
So what I should do is, whatever emotions are there associated with the bodily identity, I harmonise them with the devotional emotions. And then, I can move onwards towards Vishnu. So in this way, in this way, aparadharma is inferior, but it is not unimportant.
Aparadharma, when we compare with paradharma, yes, it is inferior. The param is transcendental, aparam is non-transcendental. But just because something is inferior does not mean it is not important.
It is also important. We have to do our aparadharma. And by doing this aparadharma, we actually move onwards in becoming more and more dharmic.
In the Bhagavad Gita, it uses the word dharma in many ways. It talks of gula dharma, it talks of jati dharma, it talks of swadharma. Swadharma means, a kshatriya has a swadharma of a kshatriya, a brahmana has a swadharma of a brahmana.
So it uses the word dharma in all these contexts. And inferior does not mean it should be neglected. Inferior means, it should be harmonised in the spirit.
So, Arjuna had to practise kshatriya dharma. He practised kshatriya dharma in a way that he could practise his bhakti also. That is an art which we all have to learn individually and apply it individually.
Now, move to the next slide. So, how do we learn about dharma? So, Ramayana displays, from dharma to dhena is our journey in this session, in this retreat. So, from the Ramayana, we learn both aparahana dharma and parahana dharma.
How is that? At one level, Ramayana is essentially a family drama. Is it not? It is a family story. How there is a conspiracy between a couple, how there is intrigue and conspiracy among co-wives, and how there is reconciliation among brothers.
So, it is essentially, the Ramayana is a family story. It talks about aparahana dharma. What is the relationship of a son to a father? What is the relationship of a wife to a husband? What is the relationship of a brother to another brother? So, all these duties it talks about.
In the same time, it is not just aparahana dharma. Because the central character is Rama and he is the supreme lord. And relating with the supreme lord is the essence of parahana dharma.
So, the Ramayana, in that sense, can be understood at both levels. From the Ramayana, we can learn the principles of aparahana dharma, of how we can act in our duties in this world. And we can also learn the principles of parahana dharma.
Because we learn about how we can relate with the lord. And the Madhuri Karam Mani is a book by Vishwanath Chakravarthy Thakur, which is basically a elaboration of certain sections of Bhakti Rasamudrasi. Bhakti Rasamudrasi is a book which is a guidebook on sadhana.
And that book is further elaborated by, some things of that book are elaborated by Vishwanath Chakravarthy Thakur and Madhuri Karam Mani. So, Madhuri Karam Mani is about sadhana dharma. So, this is that parahana dharma is our goal.
Parahana dharma is our goal. Sadhana dharma is our process toward that goal. And aparahana dharma is what keeps things in order so that we can progress toward that goal.
So, for example, to take care of my body, that is also my dharma. Sometimes somebody would ask that, you know, actually if everything happens by destiny, then, if you fall sick also, if I fall sick also by destiny, so why should I take medicine? You may say like that, but actually, if you are going to talk much more about destiny later in our sessions. But the point is, if you are going to think about destiny in that way, you can say that, going to the trouble of going to a doctor, paying for a medicine and taking the treatment, that is also a destiny.
So, we can just take destiny one part. There is destiny, which is okay, I fall sick. But I have to focus on what is my duty.
The body is a tool which is given to me. And I have to take care of my body. So, there is dharma and there is karma.
We will discuss this something elaborately. But the point I am making is, if I don't take care of my body, then I am not doing my dharma at the bodily level. When my body falls sick, then I cannot practise sadhana at my mosque.
I cannot chant, I cannot come to the temple, I cannot do any devotional activities. And then, I cannot ascend towards the spiritual level. So, the aparajya dharma maintains order and helps us progress towards the spiritual level by facilitating us in the practise of sadhana.
Another, the word dharma has many meanings. I will conclude with one last meaning. That there is, we primarily, there are six systems of philosophy in India, which are deriving from the Vedas.
And the definition is Vedanta. Vedanta is what Vyasadeva wrote in the Vedanta Sutra of Panathy. Now, one of the earlier sutras is Uttar-Namamsa, Mimamsa.
Purva-Namamsa and Uttar-Namamsa. So, Mimamsa Sutra is from Jainism. And that book, Jainism Sutra, begins with the question, Athato Dharma Jijnasa.
It says, Vedanta Sutra begins with Athato Brahma Jijnasa. Jainism Sutra begins with Athato Dharma Jijnasa. And there is, there are also various definitions of dharma are explored.
And one of the definitions of dharma is, this is not transcendental, but it is bad activity which increases sattva and decreases rajas and namas. That is dharma. So, dharma in transcendental sense is that a Kshatriya should have a love for Krishna.
But, in a material sense, that, those activities which increase the sattva-guna in us and which decrease the rajas and tamas-guna, they comprise dharma. Now, the combination of sattva, rajas, tamas, this will be different in different people. For example, it is not that a Kshatriya has to give up all rajas-guna.
Kshatriya has to fight. That requires rajas-guna. But Kshatriya, if the Kshatriya has only rajas-guna, Kshatriya will just fight for the sake of power.
It is the sattva-guna which balances. And make sure Kshatriya fights for the sake of all of them. So, the exact combination of sattva, rajas, tamas will vary according to one's nature, one's form.
But whatever be our job, for example, somebody is very passionate, if somebody is in whatever job, might be very passionate. But even within that job which is very passionate, some people can do it relatively in sattva-guna, some people can do it in rajas-guna, some people can do it in tamas. Now sometimes some people are you know, some of us are you know, we are some people are busy and they are productive.
Some people are always running here and there but they are actually not productive at all. So, most people are simply running here and there. Just like, for example, right now, say we are all sitting here.
So, you know, all of us are sitting. Now, some of us are sitting and in sattva-guna, some of us are sitting and in tamas-guna. So, externally both look similar.
But there is a world of difference. So, like that, even as activity involves a lot of running around and a lot of things, if there is inner clarity, that is sattva-guna. And if there is inner confusion, that is tamo-guna.
So, in any activity that we do, if there is a proper quantity of sattva-guna, even an activity which primarily requires passion, we can do it better when there is an appropriate amount of sattva-guna. So, dharma also means that which enables us to increase the sattva in us by which whatever we are doing, we can do it properly. Actually, the appara dharma that we do in our family relationships, in our professional relations, in our social interactions, if there is a proper balance of sattva and tamas, then we can do those much more effectively.
And that way, the aura that we have in the world, that can be maintained much better. So, for example, relatively speaking, things in the developed countries, say Australia or America, the material necessities of life are taken care of much better. So, in India or other developing countries, things may not be taken care of so well.
So, this is basically, it's both individual and governmental responsibility. Individuals also have to act responsibly, the government also should take responsibility. Now, when this is done, when this is, for example, having a proper governance, that is a dharma.
That is for the, it is at one level, the dharma of the citizen. Remember, I talked about two, meaning of dharma, law and order. So, order is what the government, government sets up systems for by which they can order mentally.
And the citizens who follow the law, by which they can order is called the system. So, it's cooperative. But when the material systems are set up properly, then the time in making material arrangements becomes less.
Then, we can have more time to do other things. Now, of course, if we are materialistic, we will do more material things only. And we will do self-indulgent and destructive things also.
But the point is, if there is material order, then even spiritual life can be practised. Spiritual life is ultimately transcendent. It can be practised, whether there is material order or there is material disorder.
But if there is material order, then spiritual life can be practised more peacefully with greater focus. And that applies in our human relationships also. So, what as a principle we can understand in different countries, the more we learn the principles of aparadharma, also, we can have more peace, more calm and more facility to focus on spiritual life.
So, this is how we will learn about the principles of aparadharma and the principles of paradharma in our future sessions. So, to summarise, we will go back to the first thing. Our topic today was from dharma to prema.
And we discussed firstly how prema is also dharma. And in that connection, we discussed paradharma and aparadharma. So, paradharma is the nature of the soul to love and serve.
And that is what Bhagavan says is the highest dharma. And so, dharma we could consider as a big circle. And within that circle, there are many meanings of the word dharma.
And that is the highest meaning. So, if you have a circle, how much is there on it? Most of it. The top of that is paradharma of prema.
So, prema is also dharma, but it is the highest dharma. And how does it relate to other dharmas? We discussed that. We discussed many meanings of the word dharma.
Like, it can be religion, it is the law, it is duty, it is nature, it is order. All these different meanings apply in different contexts. They are all valid meanings of the word dharma.
And by understanding these meanings, we can see in different contexts what is meant when the word dharma is used. Let me discuss further about the three different meanings from the first one, the three levels. Dharma as the paradharma of prema, that is our goal.
And to achieve that goal, we cannot just say, okay, I've fallen in love with Krishnamurti. It doesn't work like that. We have to purify ourselves.
For that, there is a process. That is sadhana dharma, which we follow. And while we are raising our consciousness from the material and spiritual level, still we have to live in the material world.
And for living harmoniously here, there is a certain principle that we follow, that is the aparadharma. So, to raise to the spiritual level, we follow both aparadharma and sadhana dharma, by which we can come to the level of the paradharma. So, that's from nirvana to prema.
And then we discussed about aparadharma, that it is inferior, but it is not unimportant. Not to be neglected, but just to be harmonised with aparadharma. We discussed Arjuna's ethical conflict.
The moral conflict is when one thing is right, other is wrong, but you just are too weak to do the right thing. Like, say, a doctor being told by the heirs of a patriarch, you know, that we would like to get a piece of his property also. So, that is a moral conflict.
But there is an ethical conflict when two things are right, and which is the most right thing at that situation. That's what Buddha said. Like speaking truthfully and speaking falsely to protect the facts.
Morality is not always categorical, it is contextual. So, Arjuna had an ethical conflict. An ethical conflict doesn't just require moral strength to decide.
Ethical conflict requires clarity of intelligence. And that clarity of intelligence was instilled by Krishna in the Buddha's life. So, Arjuna asked Krishna, should I fight or not? And Krishna answered, it is simple, I will just fight.
Krishna, actually, Arjuna asks, what is dharma? And Krishna analyses dharma in various ways. And the essential message is that not that you give up dharma, but rather you become harmonised with my ways. And for that purpose, whatever dharma is appropriate, you follow it.
So, in that context for Arjuna, the Kshatriya dharma was appropriate. And Arjuna also doesn't say that I will fight. He says, I will do what I want to do.
So, the Bhagavad Gita's universality is because it is not just talking about a particular battle. It is talking about the universal questions about what are we meant to do? What is our aim? And the decisions we make are based on our conceptions, our dispositions. And the Bhagavad Gita doesn't just simply tell us do this, do that.
It actually re-educates Arjuna's conceptions. And, last one is about how the Ramayana says both aparah and aparah dharma. Because it is talking about family relationships, which are aparah dharma.
But because it is a family relationship centred on the Supreme Lord, they are aparah dharma also. And Madhuri Kandini talks about sadhana dharma, what are the obstacles in the practise of bhakti and how we can overcome the obstacles. So today, in the next two sessions, I will take some pastime from the Ramayana and will be discussing some lessons from that pastime.
Tomorrow morning, I will take one session on Madhuri Kandini, which will be like a philosophical session like we had today. Now in the morning, where we will discuss the various stages in bhakti and how we can navigate through those stages. In some instances of Madhuri Kandini, I will also talk in the other classes.
But mainly, our most focus will be on the Ramayana and the principles of aparah dharma and parah dharma in the Ramayana. Thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments? Yes.
Yes. Thank you. Thank you for the wonderful class.
I was just thinking, you know, when we are talking to youngsters and how we are talking about aparah dharma and that material life needs to be stabilised, so it becomes easier for us to practise sadhana. So that they always do understand that how bhakti is important and what they explain is important but I need to stabilise my material life at the moment and that can take a few years because again, here we start getting into bhakti. How can we achieve this? So sometimes, when I am teaching to young people, they may say, this bhakti is important but first I have to stabilise my material life.
That may take a few years. After that, I will practise sadhana. This notion that first I have to stabilise my material life, then I will practise my spiritual life.
This compartmentalises things in an artificial way. It is not that, you know, for the next five years, I will build a body, then I will become the soul. Even now, I am always the soul.
And my existence always, our present existence is always multi-dimensional. We are the soul but we have mind and we have body. So if we understand the philosophy, we will understand that actually nourishing the soul cannot be good.
We have to take care of our spiritual side but there is also a valid principle that how much time we can invest in taking care of our spiritual life, materialistic life, that may take a lot of time. So, there are two kinds of later. The later which is an excuse for never.
I will do it later. I will do it later. And the later which is acknowledgement of the reality of the present.
So, we cannot equate the two. See, one problem in today's mainstream society, Hindu society, probably, that it is many people equate dharma with aparadha. That means they think that if I am doing my family duties, if I am taking care of my family, if I am raising my children, that itself is enough.
I don't have to do anything more. So, one extreme is that we reduce dharma only to aparadha. And think, if I am doing this, I don't need to do anything more.
And the other extreme, that is what has happened in our movement, in the first generation, that it is to equate dharma only with paradha. And to neglect all aparadha. So, both are mistaken.
That means if somebody says that, I will not care or really know anyone else. And I will simply practise bhakti. Well, that again is in time and circumstance, whether one can actually sustain that level of bhakti, it doesn't work out like that for most people.
We may have a spirit which we want to practise bhakti seriously. But then to sustain that lifelong is often not easy. So, we need to have a balance of paradha and aparadha.
Now, in the in the case of, say, some young people who want to develop their career and they want to grow in their material life, that is important. And that is not to be neglected. But, most people, nobody can work for 24 hours a day.
Nobody, even if their however career ambitions they have, they all need some breaks. They all need some rejuvenation. And if bhakti is presented appropriately to them, then they see that actually bhakti doesn't take away my work time.
Bhakti actually takes away my worry time. You know, when we have only a materialistic conception of life, then there is so much uncertainty, so much that this will go wrong, that will go wrong, that will go wrong. Now, if we look at our lives, isn't that every morning, 7.30 to 8.30 is my worry time.
We don't have like that. But worry is like a constant background noise that irritates and saps our energy. And if we understand that I have an indestructible spiritual side and that actually Krishna is always there with me, the more we understand this, the more the worry goes down.
Worry will not go away entirely. There will be some worries. But it's the magnitude of the worry, it substantially goes down.
And even in our material life, if we are calmer, if we are more focused, we can be more productive. So rather than see our spiritual life as as a contrary tree to our material life, we can see them as a complicated tree. And that requires guidance.
So how one can practise bhakti in a way that one does not neglect one's material life? At the same time, it is not that for the sake of pursuing one's material life, one neglects one's spiritual life. So how to balance it? One requires guidance and one requires examples to see. If somebody is a student, it has happened to many students that after they became devotees, if they were guided properly, they actually become better students also.
With their guided performance, if they now have more focused minds, their guided performance improves. It is not universal that a person who is an ordinary student will suddenly become a topper by becoming a devotee. That may not happen.
But overall, it's not that bhakti leads to neglect of our material responsibilities. If that is what one is doing, one has an incomplete understanding of bhakti. And now, as far as stabilising one's material life is concerned, one has to honestly evaluate how much time can I spend on material life? As I said, I can't work for 24 hours.
In some situations, some people may say that here there is an association of devotees but I have got a job somewhere else where I don't have an association but there I can earn more or I have better prospects for growing in my career. So maybe I'll go there for a few years, then I'll come back. Now, if somebody has made a decision like that, one has to honestly evaluate.
If I go there with the association of devotees, will I be able to practise my bhakti? And in what way can I maintain contact with devotees? So these are practical decisions which one has to take with guidance. But it's not that our practise of spiritual life should be stopped till we stabilise our material life. At one level, we can also say philosophically that there will never be stability in absolute sense in material life.
Waiting for stability in material life so that you can practise spiritual life is like waiting for the waves in the ocean to stop so that one can swim. The waves will never stop. So like that you cannot have ever permanent stability in material life.
But there is of course phases of relative stability and relative instability. So if there is some emergency, some crisis in family life or in our worldly duties, then fine. So for example, if a student has got exams coming up, every day the student will be chanting the japa in the morning, but on the day of exam after the exam, then completely fine.
If somebody has a severe family, regularly they come to the temple, but there is a family emergency, they will not be able to come to the temple regularly. That does not mean that they have fallen into maya. That's what is required.
So that sort of adjustment has to be done using one's intelligence and with guidance from mature devotees. We don't have to postpone our spiritual life for the sake of stability. At the same time, you shouldn't think that I should focus entire spiritual life and not bother about my stability at the material level.
There has to be a balance, regulation, so that it's interesting, this verse 6.17, Maharaj Krishna says युक्ताहार विहार से युक्तचेशन से करमसु युक्तसपनार वोधिस्य योगो भवदि दुख So he says, the freedom from misery will come by the practise of yoga. योगो भवदि. But then, that means at the spiritual level, when we rise to spiritual consciousness, we become free from misery.
That raising to spiritual consciousness will happen by yoga. योगो भवदि. But that yoga, for it to be practised, युक्ताहार विहार से, there has to be regulation.
Regulation is meeting, regulation is duplication, regulation is word, regulation is speaking. So with a regulated life at the material level, when we practise sadhana, when we practise yoga, then we transcend material miseries. So both are required.
Regulation at the material level and connection through yoga. Then there is elevation and liberation from misery. So with guidance, people can understand that at home, people can be helped to find how they can practise spiritual life with a reasonable degree of seriousness while also pursuing progress in generalisation in their material life.
Is that answer to your question? Yes. Right. You were talking about the different types.
You were also talking about the three different types. Three different types. One is nitya dharma, which equates to paradharma.
But he also talks about nainitya dharma and anitya dharma. So why does he use the word dharma in that context for something which is anitya? Okay. So Bhaktunath Thakur uses the word dharma in Jaya Veda Dharma to refer to three categories, nitya dharma, anitya dharma and nainitya dharma.
So apart from nitya, why does he use it as a characterisation of dharma? Why does he use the word dharma with that which is not eternal? Actually, something may not be eternal, but still it may be natural in certain situations. Dharma, if you look at its Sanskrit, it comes along with dhri, which sustains. Dharma sustains.
So for all of us, we have a particular nature, say, a kshatriya. As a kshatriya, they want to manage, they want to lead, they want to do administration. Why should they want to do it? That is their nature.
We could talk about nitya from various perspectives. Modern psychology talks about some people are introverts, some people are extroverts. So apart from those who are introverts, there has to be a certain kind of lifestyle that sustains them in their function.
Kshatriyas have to have a certain kind of lifestyle that sustains them in their function. So that which is natural for us, even if it is not eternal, if we more or less mould our life according to that, then even in this life, we can function properly. And to a large extent, in today's culture, where many people choose careers based primarily on what will give the maximum earning or what is the most glamourised society, when people choose careers that way, it leads to a lot of lack of job satisfaction because people are incompatible.
So what is happening there is that they have a particular they have a particular nature and there is, Bhagavad Gita talks about two things, there is swabhava and there is svakarma. Swabhava is one's nature and svakarma is one's activity, one's prescribed, one's natural activity. So our svakarma should match with our svabhava.
So we should be in a profession or occupation which is more or less matching with our disposition. So when we have that, then there is at a material level also leading to satisfaction. Material level, there cannot be complete satisfaction.
But, in material level there can be there can be dissatisfaction and there can be utter disorder. So, material level also, if a person is in a very incompatible situation materially, it can lead to a lot of dissatisfaction. So when we talk about anitya dharma, that means it may not be integral.
So, a person is a kshatriya, the soul is not a kshatriya. That person may be a brahmana in his life or may be something else in a different life. But in this life, in this situation, that is the basic nature of this.
And one needs to work according to that. So even the, even that which is not eternal, there can be dharma associated with that also. And to the extent one understands and harmonises with that dharma, to the extent one can live peacefully and productively.
Not in a spiritual sense, but in a material sense. Does that address your question? Thank you. Any other questions? Yes.
When you mentioned the balance of three modes of nature, that we need to have some more of sattva, is tamas really helpful? Or should we take it out? Okay. So, now, sattva versus tamas, we said balance of three modes is required. Now, is tamas really necessary? Actually, we, all these three, they comprise material nature.
So, Krishna says, material nature comprises of these three. So sattva versus tamas, we can consider them in terms of what they are associated with. Sattva is associated with maintenance.
Tamas is associated with creation. Tamas is associated with destruction. Now, if we look at the routine course of life, maintenance of things is important.
But there are situations where creation is also required. There are situations where destruction is also required. So, now the problem comes that when maintenance is required, you destroy things.
So, for example, if I have an old habit, if I have an old habit, which is not very healthy, I want to destroy it. So, destruction of any form, that involves a certain amount of tamas. But, the point is, it is more important for me to sustain whatever good habits I have.
That is why I am telling you, when I develop good habits, new habits, that requires rajas. Doing anything new requires rajas. We shouldn't stereotype that all tamoguna activity is bad.
See, when we sleep, sleeping is associated with tamoguna. Now, sleep, at one level, what does it do? Actually, we do nothing in sleep. You know, in modern science and philosophy of science, sleep is a big mystery.
Why it is? That, you know, why do we sleep? We may say that it is for bodily rest and restoration. But, we could have had bodily rest and restoration without having to switch off our machines. It is like, nowadays some people have some alzheimer's or Parkinson's, somebody says alzheimer's, somebody else.
So, those people are there at some time and then switch off. Suddenly, go into some other room and talk with them. It is as if they are not there.
So, it is quite a disturbing thing to be there if somebody is like that. But, actually, all of us, in the day to day course of life, 6 to 8 hours we are not there. Suddenly, we are not there.
And, just because it is a universal phenomenon, does not make it any less less unusual, less inexplicable. So, the point is that actually, during sleep, what happens, and there are various many things that happen. Baldev Vidyavarshan in Vedanta Sutra commentary has a whole section on sleep and dreams.
But, suffice it to say, from our discussion, that at a biological level, there is the rejuvenation of the body. That is, there is destruction of the tiredness. So, when we feel tired, and we take a rest, what happens? The tiredness goes away.
So, that is constructive. I saw it in the roads here in Australia. There are repeated errors.
A power nap can save your life. So, what is happening? Basically, there is tiredness, and that tiredness is removed by resting. So, resting is a necessary biological activity.
And, what it does? It destroys exhaustion. It destroys tiredness. So, in this case, destructiveness is useful.
The problem is not the phenomena itself. The problem is what it is directed towards. So, to label something as bad, it is to go into categorical judgements, categorical morality.
Tamoguna is not bad. In a certain context, Tamoguna is the same shit. So, I was talking with one senior devotee.
We had a long question-answer session. So, after that, he asked, what is your plan now? I said, now I am planning to surrender to the moda people. Laughter No, what did he say? Now I am planning to surrender to Krishna in the form of the moda people.
Laughter So, when we get rested, we get rejuvenated, we can serve Krishna better. So, to restore our energy, we shouldn't think of sleep simply as a waste of time. No.
Sleep is also an arrangement made by Krishna by which we get rested and we can serve Krishna better. So, that way, if we have inclusive vision, all the modes serve constructive purposes. But, they have to be directed towards each other.
Like some people say that violence is always bad. But no, Bhagavad Gita says violence also has its purpose. But, violence and indiscriminate is bad.
Similarly, Tamoguna, when indiscriminate, it is bad. When there is wanted destruction, it is bad. But in certain situations, destruction is also essential for sustenance.
And Tamoguna serves that purpose. Does anyone see the issue? Thank you. Hi, you explained the various meanings of dharma.
So, dharma as a nature is perpetual while as a religion lost or always unhealed. So, how should we understand the contextual application of these three in the past? Okay. Dharma as nature is perpetual and dharma as religion or deity may not be and is contextual.
It is not eternal. So, how do we understand the relationship, interrelationship of all these? Extrapolate the contextual depth of these three. So, how do these effects the temporary aspects of dharma relate to the eternal aspects? Do they extrapolate? Not necessarily.
That means, if somebody is a Kshatriya in this world, then Kshatriya is spiritual. You know. For that matter, somebody is a preacher in this world.
There is no preaching in the spiritual world. So, our dharma in this world may not relate to the dharma in the spiritual world or in its unity. We have a Swarupa, which is quite different from what it is here.
At the same time, there is a process of purification that is universal. That means, if you see, in Chaitanya Chaitanya Amrit, in the instructions of Narayana Goswami, in Chapter 20 of the Pancha Leela, 22-25 actually, mainly Chapter 20, Guru Goswami is Narayana Goswami. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu describes the characteristics of the Vedas ourselves.
And we usually think that, yes, we mother us the highest. And Shantara is like my backyard. We think like that.
But, actually the characteristics of Shantara are also described as two things. It is quite exalted. The characteristics are two things.
Complete detachment from matter and complete attachment to Krishna. That itself is a very exalted state. So, the basic process of purification to come to the to come to the platform of attachment to Krishna and detachment from matter, that is common for everyone.
Afterwards, in what form attachment to Krishna will specially manifest in my case, that may vary. That may depend on the source in our disposition. So, rather than worrying too much about what our sarupa is, like some devotee asked, Jai Bhai Maharaj, Maharaj, is our initiated name Vitarman? The name which we get.
Is it initiated? Vitarman? Maharaj said, the last part is Vitarman. So, we have to realise that the part that we are servants of Krishna, and how exactly we serve Krishna, that will depend on itself. So, our contextual dharma, to the extent that it is anukul to bhakti, we accept that.
And to the extent that it is pratikul to bhakti, we keep a distance from it. So, without getting too much into the analysis of how this relates with that, in a specific one-to-one sense, we focus on that there is a path to be followed. So, the paradharma is the destination.
And at that destination, our natural attraction to Krishna, in whatever form it is, that we live. But the main thing right now is to rise from where we are to that level. And for that, whatever forms of dharma are anukul to us, those we accept and we raise our consciousness.
Does it answer your question? We're going to have one last question and then we'll adjourn for a short break. Please hold on to your questions because we will have an exclusive Q&A session as well. So, yes, please hold on to all the burning questions.
But for now, we'll have to come to a close after this question. Thank you. Hare Krishna Prabhu.
Thank you so much for giving us your time. I'm really excited to be here today. Look, I've asked this question many a times over the last couple of weeks.
I haven't had a satisfactory answer yet. So, I ask this question with sincere hope because you kept it all the questions in such a simple manner that even I could understand it. I'm hoping that I can get an answer to this one.
During Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna, the role of Arjuna and Krishna over there has been explained as someone who does not understand his normal beliefs and is confused. And Arjuna goes on and asks about lot of questions related to his normal beliefs of Krishna and Krishna explains it in great detail. Now, one basic question that I feel that Arjuna hasn't asked in Bhagavad Gita is how do humans actually come to this earthly planet, you know, where it's been explained very clearly.
All Krishna consciousness over here is about the fall of souls and the coming to this earth. Arjuna hasn't asked this question to Krishna at all, saying how did we actually end up coming to this world. We asked about soul, we asked about why do people do what they do, but one basic question of why and how do we come to this earth and that question really has caused me for a while saying that's a very basic and natural question saying why is that we come to this earth.
I'm not sure if I asked the question properly. So, how do we come to this world? How does soul come to this world? See, the Bhagavad Gita in the 13th chapter Krishna talks about Purusha Prakriti in Bhagavad Gita there in the 21st and 22nd verses Krishna talks about this that Prakriti Purusham Chaiva Vidhi Anadi Bhavati Ikaram Shukunam Chaiva Vidhi Prakriti Sambhavani Kaala Kaalam Kalpavitve Hetur Prakriti Chutve Purusha Sukha Sukhana Purusham Prakriti Stohi Bhuvate Prakriti Janmuram Kaalam Purusham Gosvami So, here the first verse is ready for this. Prakriti Purusham Chaiva Vidhi Anadi Bhavati That Prakriti and Purusha know that both of them are eternal.
And Ikaram Shukunam Chaiva, the transformations that happen in this world and the more that are there Vidhi Prakriti Sambhavani they are cause of Prakriti. And then he says that whatever changes happen in this world, the changes happen in the field of nature in Prakriti, but emotions that takes place in connection with those changes that happen to the soul. And why does this happen? Purusha Prakriti Stohi Bhuvate Prakriti Janmuram.
Because the soul is caught in that. Prakriti Stohi. That's why the soul experiences this duality.
So it's like say if if say now the T20 World Cup is going on. So, now that World Cup is going on in India and now somebody is sitting here in Australia, but they are watching a TV. Now they are watching a TV and their whole all their emotions get associated with that.
So they may be here but they are jumping and laughing and holding their head and crying. So all that is happening is some things are moving on the digital screen on the TV. So within the digital circuitry of the computer or the TV certain things are happening.
Meta certain things are happening in Prakriti. But because they wanted to enjoy the cricket match so they are watching it now and their consciousness has gone into their cricket match and that's why it happens in their existence. Now somebody else who is not watching the cricket match is watching them.
What is all this? What is all the emotions they are going through? So the whole panorama of emotions that we experience that is because our consciousness is caught in that. Now in the Parpur 13.20 both Baldeh and Diyabhushan and Vishwanath Gupta Thakur they explain that this Purusha and Prakriti, their Anadi and their bondage is also Anadi. Anadi means beginningless.
Now Anadi that which has no beginning. Now what does Anadi or beginningless literally mean? That is something which we, within our conception of time that is something which is difficult for us to understand. Now this question often is, now how does the Jiva follow the spiritual road? This question often comes and this is one of Iskcon devotees favourite way to give themselves a headache.
Laughter So traditionally speaking since Ishwara Prabhupada he sometimes basically addresses the question by saying that he fell because of Aniruddha Krishna. But that is generally what we speak in his conversations. But in his written works, he releases quite clearly that the soul never falls in spiritual road.
That is in the fourth canto where the Kumaras, they curse Jain Vijay and Jain Vijay falls over there. So there the conclusion is that no one ever falls in spiritual road. So now this is there are two contradictory things here.
One is that we fell because of the other is that we nobody falls in spiritual road. Now traditionally in Gaudiya Vaishnavism as well as in the Vaishnavism paradise, the idea that the soul falls in the spiritual road has never been talked about. So basically our Acharyas have focused on the point that the bondage is there in this.
And Bhaktivinoda Thakur first talked about the fall of the soul not from the spiritual world but from the Brahmajyoti. At the Brahman, from the Brahman level the soul can fall. But as far as the spiritual world is concerned that is something which is not explicitly talked about either by the Shastras or by our Acharyas.
And Prabhupada also did not insist on this. Prabhupada basically when he was asked to do this, Prabhupada basically focused on not so much on as you say post-mortem he focused more on the cure. So he gave the example that suppose there is a green bird who comes and sits on a tree.
The green bird comes and sits on a green tree and a green fruit falls on it. So now what caused it? There are three possibilities. First is that you know now what happens is the green bird comes and sits on a tree and then a fruit falls out and the green bird flies up.
So now there are three possibilities. One is that the birds flying away and the fruits falling are unrelated to this. The second is that because the bird came and sat on the tree that affected the balance of the tree and because of that the fruit fell off.
So the bird is coming on the tree causing the fruit to fall off. And the third is because the fruit fell off, the bird got alarmed and that's how the fruit flew away. So now which exactly happened? Prabhupada says that this is the cause that led him to this situation.
It's very difficult to understand. So when we talk about that which is beyond the arena of time. So whatever has happened in the arena of beyond time that is difficult for us to understand.
And that's why that the soul by nature is eternal. And when the soul comes in the material world, we can analyse and understand what exactly is the soul doing and how the soul can become elevated in the material world. But how the soul comes to the material world that involves talking about a point which is beyond time.
And that is something which is difficult to answer. And this is a problem, if we want to focus on that as a problem, this is a problem not of any philosophy. It is a problem of the human capacity for thinking.
Because any school of thought will think. Even if you go into science. In science also they say everything came from the mid band.
But what came before the mid band? There was singularity. When did the singularity come? That is the time when time started. Whatever that means.
So what was there before that? What do you mean by time starting? So the basic point is that when we go to origins, the human mind's capacity to function stops. Because we can't conceptualise things beyond time. So broadly speaking there are different devotees who can hold different opinions.
And some devotees try to give elaborate explanations of how souls fall from the spiritual world. And some devotees say that actually the soul has been here and Krishna has not seen this. And just as there is variety in the spiritual world that say there are some devotees who are Madhuras, some devotees are Shantaras, there are different devotees at different levels of intimacy in their relationship with Krishna.
So there is variety in the spiritual world and same variety also extends to the material world. And wherever we are we can practise bhakti, we can elevate it in the spiritual world. And whichever explanation we find convincing, we can accept that.
So there are certain reasons given by the spiritual world. If you find that convincing we can accept that. But it needn't be an imposition that this is the way it happened and this is the explanation for it.
Because we may not find any explanation satisfying. And we talk about humility in various contexts. For example, when we come in front of Krishna bowing down in front of the deity is humility.
Humility in an intellectual context means admitting that I don't know and I cannot know. I don't know anybody can say because they may not know me. But it is there are certain questions which for which I cannot know.
That's what has to be accepted. Any field of knowledge if we see even modern science you see, it focusses all of science progresses by assuming that there are laws in nature. And by observing nature we can understand laws.
And then we can tap those laws for the development of technology. But why those laws exist in the first place? Scientists just don't know that. We just don't know.
So now, based on the presence of laws there are three broad theories about it in science. One is these laws came by chance. The other is that the likelihood of them coming by chance is very low.
So they say there are parallel universes. And somehow in our universe the laws came on by chance. And third and this is also basically this is also not a very satisfactory explanation because it is like it is it is spying concept upon concept.
To explain one concept we postulate another concept. And then the third concept. So to explain something in the universe we postulate laws.
And to explain the laws we postulate alternate universes. So it is becoming like to explain something you need to postulate something which is far more unperceivable. So the third explanation is that these laws manifest the super-intelligence of God.
And there are different examples. So we take different explanations for that. Of course we understand mayaadhyaksha and other things.
The laws are another question. But the point is the human mind or the human intelligence when it goes towards origins in any field of knowledge there is a particular point where we need to accept axioms and move forward from there. So the question of origin it is something which is not being discussed in Vedanta sutra.
Basically all the questions are exhaustively discussed. And there are also things which are commentary focused on. The point that the soul is soul's existence is not going to hold an answer.
Like the soul is here and that happens in dharma the soul can move. Thank you very much.