Gita Study Pune 2013 – 14.16-24 How the analysis of the modes leads to Bhakti

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
the cultivated and that will kind of understanding of life cultivated and that will that will on what kind understanding of life the person has perhaps understanding of and that immediate effect, the intermediate effect and the immediate effect. So, let’s look at this.
First the intermediate effect, that means the overall mindset that is created by the cultivation of a particular mode. So, rajasastu phalam dukkham, the most striking and very condensed phrase that rajo guna leads to misery. Rajasastu phalam dukkham.
There is ajnanam tamasah phalam. So, let’s look at these one by one. We will most importantly focus on.
So, karmana sukrtasyahu sattvikam nirmalam phalam. That means, in sattva guna, one word does sukruti. Karmana sukrtasyahu.
And when that happens, when one does proper work, which is pious work, which is scripturally sanctioned and recommended work, then the result is further nirmalam. Now, nirmalatvat is already a characteristic of the mode of goodness that was described in 14.6. But that means, one is pure when he is in mode of goodness and one becomes further purified by being in the mode of goodness. So, overall, the way Krishna puts it, within the modes, the mode of goodness is the most auspicious.
So, although Krishna has said earlier that it binds us to happiness and knowledge, but still, these are better forms of bondage than the bondages because of passion and ignorance. See, at one level, Prabhupada would give the example of shackles are shackles, whether they are golden shackles or iron shackles. So, all the three modes are shackles.
At the same time, within material existence, the kind of life that a person leads varies substantially depending on the mode that the person lives in. And not only that person’s own life, but even the life of others is affected. A person who lives in goodness actually is relatively happy and helps others to be happy.
A person in the mode of passion is unhappy, is a yasasthu phalam dukkham, is miserable and also makes others miserable. So, as long as we are in the material world, the way we live does matter. And it’s not just a matter of how we are bound in the material world, but whether we continue to stay bound or whether we become liberated and what is the effect on others.
So, people who live in the mode of passion, they are not only bound in binding themselves. For example, there are so many entertainment professions like Bollywood, Hollywood. So, these people live themselves in the mode of passion, but the way they are living, they are increasing the passion of so many other people and they are also going into bondage.
So, yasasthu phalam dukkham, is that the mode of passion causes misery. So, there is an absolute level where the world itself is dukkhal vashashvatam. But then within that also there are grades of misery.
And when one is in the mode of passion, the misery is very great. And although we don’t say that ever anybody will become, that this world will never become happy in the sense of sukhalayam, but still to the extent the world is in the mode of passion and ignorance, to an extent the misery will be far greater than it would be otherwise. So, yasasthu phalam dukkham essentially means that the person increases the misery by one’s own actions.
There are enough problems in this world without we adding to the problems, our own problems and others’ problems. But in the mode of passion, we desire and act in ways which breed misery. And this is not just a philosophical analysis, but there is a surprising amount of empirical evidence which supports this.
In the Ishopanishad class, did I discuss about optimisers and maximisers? No. So, psychologists have found out that, this is a book by American psychologist Barry Schwartz, it is called the paradox of choice. How more is less.
So, he gives a lot of statistics from various fields. I mentioned this book earlier with respect to how there is the burden of freedom. You remember the burden of freedom I talked about, the doctor tells you, this could be your sickness and this could be your treatments.
Now you choose. So, you will have the burden of freedom. Normally people think of freedom as liberating, but freedom can be a big burden also.
But another thing he says is that when people have too many choices, then too much of mental energy goes in trying to make the right choice. If I have to purchase a new handset with the right scheme, there are so many handsets with so many schemes that I can spend sometimes weeks upon weeks just trying to find out what to choose. And then, the researchers found that basically there are two different kinds of people when they are faced with choices.
The first people are the maximisers. Their attitude is that whatever I should get, I should get the maximum deal out of it. I should get the best out of everything.
So, if I am going to purchase a laptop, among all the laptops that are available, I should get the best model for the best price. That’s the idea. So now, that means they want to maximise the returns that they can get out of anything.
And that seems to be fair enough. Why should we not? If I am spending money, I should get the best that is available on sale. But on the other hand, there are other kinds of people who are called as optimisers.
You know, optimisation sometimes is, when you optimise the colour display in a computer monitor, it comes along. So sometimes the word optimise is used as equivalent to maximise. But optimise is not exactly maximise.
Optimise is the best in the circumstances. Let’s call it optimisation. That means if I have, if I am using a low power setup, then within that, so maximisation means I want the highest resolution, no matter how much power it drains.
But optimisation means that, okay, within the, if I am using the laptop in a low power mode, then within that low power mode, while taking the least possible power or allowing the balance between the power consumed and the quality of the pixels and the picture images displayed. So optimisation is a balanced all round best. So those who are optimisers, they start out first by defining their needs.
If I want a laptop, what all do I need in my laptop? Okay, I want to use it for typing, I want to use my email, maybe I need to surf over then I need to have Skype lectures on it. So I should be able to see others, others should be able to see my webcam. List out what are the things that one wants.
And then look around for some gadget that provide that, those features. And once they get those features, and they get a reasonable price, stop it. So their idea is that they don’t go around searching for the best of everything.
Now, when they compared these two kinds of people, they found that on an average, the maximisers get a better deal than the optimisers, which is natural, because they spend more time researching. But there are three problems with maximisers. Maximisers spend a huge amount of time.
So every purchase consumes their time like anything. And second is that they always have a excessive dissatisfaction with the product when they get it. Because they spend so much time getting the product, the more and more the expectations are raised.
So at the end of it, they feel terribly, they feel let down. Because when we have so many expectations from anything, it’s not going to live up to it. And third is that there is always the gnawing fear that if only had explored more, there might be a better product available.
So what happens is too much time goes, disappointment comes and still the fear is there. And over a period of time, they found that the optimisers are happier, although they have a lower quality product, but they’re happier. Because every purchase is not like a life shaping decision for them.
It’s just one part of life. So this whole attitude, we can apply not just to the purchase of products, we can apply to material life itself. If we tried to make everything perfect in our material life, that is the whole attitude underlying Rajoguna is that this world is the place of enjoyment.
And in a sense, I’m like God who will enjoy in this world. And that’s why in Rajoguna, people search so much to try to get the perfect arrangement no matter how much time, energy, whatever effort is required. And then inevitably it doesn’t live up to their expectations.
They’re always left hoping, maybe there will be something better, something better, something better. So, and we are in Rajoguna, this is a thing which rajasastu phalam dukkham, that actually it leads to misery, the misery of anxiety, the misery of disappointment, the misery of fear. So all these miseries come up because that’s so now we are not talking here in any way about the law of karma and the karmic consequences that will come because of rajasic actions, that they are surely there.
But here we are talking simply about the immediate psychological effects that result because of a rajasic mentality. So this results because lobha, the defining characteristic of Rajoguna is lobha. One always wants more and more and more.
And you know the sheer amount of waste that is generated in our society today, this could be electronic waste, industrial waste, paper waste, it’s all awesome. It’s all awesome. Now just outside New York City is the world’s biggest garbage dump.
There is a whole island and the island is nothing but garbage. And they have something like thousands and thousands of tonnes of garbage is generated each day from the city. So it can range from, as I said, electronic items that are discarded and thrown away.
You know every cell, every mobile will have its own sort of charger, its own sort of connecting rod. And if you change the handset, practically speaking, that is often thrown away. And these things are not always very well recycled or reused.
And nowadays especially people have these plastic plates and plastic cups. Now this is just New York, but there are so many other places all over the world, big big cities, they are just garbage dumps. So all this is the result of disproportionate exploitation nature backfiring upon us.
But overall rajasasthu phalam dukkham. So what happens in Rajoguna is long run misery. So he says, rajasthu phalam dukkham, ajnanam tamasah phalam.
So in Tamoguna, one ultimately perpetuates jnan. So the effect is, tamoguna tamasthu ajnanajam vidheto sadhi. It started with ajnan and it ends with further ajnan.
Just like if a person takes intoxication. Initially there is some illusion, there is some ignorance, the notion that alcohol will solve my problems. And after one indulges in alcohol, one ends up in a bigger problem.
One acts like a drunk, making a fool of oneself and then one just falls somewhere and goes unconscious and when the person comes back to consciousness, the person is having a terrible splitting hangover and is feeling miserable. So that way, sattvaguna action leads, it’s pure and it leads to purification further. Tamoguna, one is ignorance and it leads to further ignorance.
Now after describing this, see, medium term means, earlier what I talked about was that, long term means after death. So now here I am talking about the overall mindset of the person when a person is in a particular mode. The overmind is purifying, the overmind is agitating and the overall effect is stultifying, it is ignorance inducing.
So let’s look at the next word so we’ll understand what it means by the immediate effect. So yeah, now Sri Prabhupada explains a very important point, Rajasastra phalam dukkham. What he says is that the dissatisfaction, the misery that is causing the mode of passion is not because we are lacking something.
That’s what we feel like, if a person is in the mode of passion, if only this person would behave properly, if only that would work out, if only my health would be good, if only I had a better home, if only I had a better job, if only my health would be better, if only I had a faster car, if only I had this, if only I had that. So the whole idea is that there is something lacking outside in the world and if only that could be set right, if only I could have what I was lacking, then things would become fine. But the problem with this whole attitude is that actually even if the outside situation is rectified, that vision of external adequacy is caused by inner greed.
So that inner greed will eventually make me see something else that is missing, something else that is lacking. So the problem is not what is lacking outside, the problem is what is lacking inside. There may be things which are lacking outside, no doubt, and sometimes they need to be rectified.
But the real problem is as long as I am lacking inside, that means I am in the mode of passion, I am not connected with God properly and satisfied, then no matter what I acquire from outside, still I will be dissatisfied. Because it’s a mentality. What is that mentality? The mentality, the habit of seeing what one is lacking.
So that habit will not go away just by acquiring a particular thing. So for example, some people always compare. I have a dress of this kind, somebody else has a dress of another kind.
So that person’s dress is better than mine. People may feel that if only I had that kind of dress, things would be so much better with me. But the problem is that actually it is my vision that is making me see such things.
So even if I get those things, that particular thing, but my vision of seeing that thing will remain. It’s again something similar to a person who is lusty in an unregulated, insatiable way. Then the person will think if only I just get that person, I’ll be happy.
But then that lust is not going to be satisfied with that person. After that that person will hanker for someone else. So the problem is not what is lacking outside, but what is lacking inside.
Our inner connection with Krishna. So where does Gopas say that if I am dissatisfied, I cannot become happy by acquiring money. I need to become Krishna conscious.
So one can see that even if one has enough money and adequate arrangements for sense gratification, there is neither happiness nor peace of mind. This is a reference to which verse? अशान्तस्य कुतः सुखम् There is no peace of mind and where can there be happiness? So that is not possible. Why? Because one is situated in the mode of passion.
That means it’s a defining characteristic of the mode of passion itself to keep us miserable. So if one wants happiness at all, his money will not help him. Okay, I don’t have particular thing and I get money and I get that thing.
But the mentality of looking for what I don’t have will remain and that will cause me to stay dissatisfied. So if he has to become happy, he has to elevate himself to the mode of goodness by practising Krishna consciousness. That is the only way the person will become happy.
So when Prabhupada explains now, Krishna has more or less completed. Now if you see this is what we are talking about here. Let’s recite this verse.
सत्वात् संजायते घ्यानम् रजसो लोभएवच रजसो लोभएवच प्रमादमोहव तमसो भवतो घ्यानमेवच सत्वात् संजायते घ्यानम् So just by a situation in the mode of goodness, one gets jnana. In the mode of passion, one gets lobha. So in the mode of ignorance, प्रमादमोहव तमसो, one becomes illusion and one becomes maddened.
भवतो घ्यानमेवच, and eventually the result is ignorance, further ignorance. Now Krishna will describe, earlier he had given some more clear description of the destinations. Now he will give general direction of where people proceed based on the mode that they are situated in.
उर्ध्वं गच्छन्ति सत्वस्था, मध्येतिष्ठन्ति राज्यसः, जगन्य गुणवृत्तिस्था, अधो गच्छन्ति तामसः So it’s very straight forward, उर्ध्वं गच्छन्ति, they go up. So up can refer to two ways, it can refer to the higher planets and the higher species, the species which are more conducive for spiritual advancement. And similarly, अधो गच्छन्ति can refer to both, it can refer to lower planets or to the lower species.
जगन्य गुणवृत्तिस्था, मध्येतिष्ठन्ति, means those who are in Rājasā, they stay where they are, मध्येतिष्ठन्ति, in this material existence, in the मर्ति लोका, in the earth. जगन्य गुणवृत्तिस्था, जगन्य is actually abominable. गुणवृत्तिस्था, one who is situated in that, गुणवृत्ति.
So now, what is the meaning, so गुण and वृत्ति, Krishna uses this composite in a very significant way. So each गुण has its own वृत्ति. गुण is the mode.
So रज्यो गुण brings with it a particular वृत्ति. सत्यो गुण brings with it a particular वृत्ति. So one way to envision the modes, in a relatively simple way is, sometimes if you know in a river, or okay you can take a river example or a plane example.
If a person is flying in the plane, even in the plane, there is wind that is moving in the atmosphere. And of course the plane’s engine is so powerful that normally, the effect of the wind is not much. But sometimes the winds are stormy.
And then because of the stormy winds, the planes get disoriented. And when there are weather disturbances, the planes may have to steer off track. Or they may have to make an emergency landing.
Or they may just get lost in the turbulence. So then, if we imagine that, say there is the atmosphere, and there are three winds, which are moving. So now the aeroplane that gets caught in a particular wind, will get propelled in that direction.
Because the wind is so powerful. Or you could say, as a river also, there are different currents in the river. And in the oceans, they say that, if you look at the surface tensions in an ocean, they say in the ocean there are multiple currents.
From the coast point of view, all the waves simply seem to be coming to the coast. But within, there are various bodies of water, within that one body of water called the ocean. And the currents are moving in different directions.
And different fishes, they know, this water is very cold water, this is warmer water. And they automatically live in the appropriate current. So that way, imagine this current of water or current of air which is flowing.
And the directions in which each current is flowing is different. And whatever gets situated in that particular current will get moved in that direction. So the modes are like that.
So if one situates oneself in the mode of goodness, then one will get elevated. And accordingly by the other modes, one will get directed either where one is or one will go downwards. So now Krishna after describing this, till now he has analysed the modes.
Now he gives two short verses, which for the first time talk about transcending the modes. See till now, after just hinting in 14.6 that even goodness causes bondage, but afterwards he has largely talked about how goodness is good. You know, karmana sukrutasya ho nirmalam, the word that he has, prakasham, prakashakam, the way he has described goodness is quite positive.
But now he will talk about something beyond goodness. Does it mean of any of the universe? Does it mean where they are currently functioning, where they will come back or it can mean? Okay. So where they are, so if they come back to the middle planetary system or something like that, that’s what he has talked about.
Then what about those who are in other parts of the planetary system already? What will happen to them? So somebody is in passion in heaven, then do they come back to heaven or do they come to earth? Generally, the modes and the associated karma that primarily happens or affects on the martyaloka. The modes themselves are there everywhere and people also do actions everywhere. But in the upper planetary systems, the freedom for enjoyment is much greater.
And people are not karmically responsible there, the way they are on earth. So of course, sometimes even those who are in heavens may become influenced by the lower modes. They may become angry and they may offend somebody.
They may get curses by which they fall away. So Indira can even become a hog because of that. Such a grievous fall is also possible.
But such incidents are not the norm. They are the exceptions. And largely, the nature of the existence, the nature of the actions and the nature of the subsequent journey is more or less fixed.
It is just like, as we give the example, going to a heavenly planet is like going to a hill station. So when people go to a hill station, they are not likely to work very hard over there. They are going there basically for the purpose of enjoyment.
And they enjoy as much as they want over there. And then they come back. So like that, in the heavenly planets, the devatas are expected to respect the brahmanas.
And they are also expected to do the responsibilities which they are given as universal administrators. But along with that, they have a substantial freedom for enjoyment. So it’s more like, for the devatas, there can be curses which can bring them down abruptly.
But, it’s not so much like karma affecting them directly. See, by karma we can refer to specific law of karma with action and reaction which is there in the material world. So, the idea that we are responsible for our actions that applies throughout the universe.
But, the way the law of karma and karma acts on the earth where we are accountable for each action based on the law of based on the overall law of karma that sort of thing is not there. You know, Indra has the apsaras and he can sport with the apsaras and there is no consequence for him because by the punya he has done over here he has in a sense he has earned the pious credits for that kind of enjoyment. So, that way the freedom for enjoyment is much more.
But, if they act passionately in general or if they act in ways that are inappropriate especially in terms of cursing somebody and disrespecting then where they often fall back lower. So, generally swarga is not a place where one returns to. If one’s karma is over in swarga then one comes back to So, even when Indra has this fear that say Bali Maharaj or some other demons may overpower me and take away my position now that is within the tenure so within the tenure he doesn’t want to lose that power because of some unruly elements but there is no facility generally in Indraloka to sort of extend the tenure once the tenure is over one comes back to the lower planet generally speaking.
And you said this Urdhva means higher planets and higher species species also. So, species meaning because this is all being performed by humans so you meant to say higher states of consciousness? Correct, yes. Higher states of consciousness.
So, now Krishna Actually to go to higher planets good karma is required Both passionate people they will go to heavenly planets also and some people may be taking birth in earthly planet also. So, what is the difference? For example, if devotees some devotees go to higher heavenly planets they tell. Based on what they will tell? So, how can people go to heavenly planets? The general way is by doing karmakanda.
Dharma Artha Kaamam Ukshe Desai So, that Dharma will lead to Artha in this life it can lead to Kaam in this life but it can also lead to Artha and Kaam in the next life in the sense that one goes to heavens where there is huge amount of prosperity and there is profuse amount of enjoyment. Kaamaatmaana Swarga Para Janma Karma Phala Pradhaam Kriyaa Vishesha Bhavulaam Bhogaishwarya Bhogaishwarya So, Bhogaishwarya Aishwarya is wealth, Bhoga is enjoyment. That’s what they want and this is 2.43 in the Bhagavad Gita.
Krishna explains Now, Krishna has a very significant word It is Kaamaatmaana So, it is as if Kaam is their Atma Atma is of course Satchitananda but they are so much filled with desires to enjoy that it is Kaamaatmaana and almost like the essence of their existence so Atma is used here in metaphorical sense that the spirit the essence of their being so that is Kaama but this Kaama is not the sinful sinful Kaama that Krishna says is the cause of Mahapapma Vidhena Mihavairana in the third chapter. It is a great sin. This is Kaama which is regulated and directed according to scripture So, normally speaking we could say Karmakanda is in the mode of passion because they want material results but there is also substantial amount of goodness because they are seeking the material results by doing some punya by doing some pious activities so if one has a lot of goodness one goes to the Uttam Vidham Loka the upper planetary systems like Janloka, Tapaloka, Mahaloka, Satyaloka but if one also has a enjoying mentality along with a desire to adhere to scripture then one goes to the heavens so that means when does one go to heaven there has to be substantial amount of goodness along with passion now when there is passion along with some level of goodness that means one wants to enjoy but one is not going about harming other people one is not doing sinful activities then one can be reborn over here see sinful activities are like debits from the account pious activities are like credits to the account so say last month I had 50,000 rupees in my bank account and now if at the end of this month also I am having 50,000 what does that mean? That means whatever I have put in that much I have taken out so when Krishna says that means when they are living in the mode of passion then what happens during that lifetime whatever credits they put in that much debits they remove not necessarily numerically precise sense but in a broad sense of overall balance and that’s why they continue to stay at the same level of existence their karmic bank account gets balanced out to large extent and that’s how they get rebirth over there on the madhya extent Devotees 80% of devotees go to heavenly planets such kind of statements really I have heard from well you know 80% of devotees go to heavenly planets is this true? well you know it’s good to be suspicious of mathematics when you come to Krishna consciousness anytime you get such figures like this you know they may have some value with respect to making us understand the gravity of certain things for example 90% of our spiritual advancement depends on chanting or 99% of our spiritual advancement depends on chanting that’s true but that doesn’t mean that 99% of our time we should keep chanting it doesn’t mean like that it just means that we have to take certain things gravely so in this numerical aspect it is best used generally of course this is a big philosophical discussion what are numbers? you know I don’t go into that are numbers real things or are they just concepts you know I can write 3,4,5 and I can say this is letter 3, this is letter 4, this is letter 5 but are there just like there is this recorder existing but are numbers things like this which are existing or are they just concepts so generally speaking we would say they are just concepts isn’t it? but the point is that you know the use of numbers in general especially with respect to devotional aspect it is often used to indicate certain things there may be certain accuracy associated with it but the primary point is not the accuracy the primary point is the indication what is given through it so now like we are discussing about 8.4 million species you know yeah 8.4 million is a precise number in the sense that when one system of classification that is true but then that is not the important point is not that specific number if you see the I think there is Brahma Vyavad Purana, Padma Purana where these verses come, immediately the context is what the soul is wandering through so many species and after that the soul has come to the human species so therefore the human species is so rare and the soul who does not use the human species to make spiritual advancement is such a such a state of misfortune so any facts that are given are generally immediately associated with some philosophical point and that philosophical point is what is important and facts means in terms of numbers so I would say that this point of 80% devotee is going to heaven is more of to caution us against holding on to our material desires too much because if you hold on to our material desires if you have desire, Prabhupada said apparently if you have one desire to eat one Gulab Jamun you will come back again to the material world to eat Gulab Jamun now we have to understand that what Sri Prabhupada is cautioning us against that, it’s not that we should not be attached to such things but then actually there are Gulab Jamuns in the spiritual world also, isn’t it? so if our desire for Krishna is strong enough if our desire to love and serve Krishna is strong enough then it’s we can get Gulab Jamun in the spiritual world also, we don’t have to come back to the material world the important point is that we should not hold on to material desires so these broad principles are what we should focus on the percentages, they become a little too analytical for a matter of the heart like Bhakti so some people say that you know I have not seen this directly in any scripture some people say that you know something like 25% of the karma that we incur we suffer that in the first 50% of our life the remaining 50% of the karma we suffer in the last 50% of our life and the remaining 25% of the karma we suffer in the future lives I have serious doubts how can you say such a thing because different karma can lead to different reactions at different times so these sort of statements it’s better to be careful even if they are coming from, like I gave the earlier example of Krishna’s name being 3 times more than Ram’s name and Ram’s name being 100 times 1000 times stronger than Vishnu’s name so this is not for us to become like devotional profiteers trying to see which name can give us the maximum returns hmm so our goal is to actually develop a relationship with Krishna yeah just clarification when they go basically they directly go towards the heavenly planets because this is inside the material world after their death do they go to Yamraj and what you call because all these people since they might be associating with some sins they would have been there so they go there and then they go to this different places or directly from here because if it comes to already the people in ignorance already they are going to lower planetary system again they have to go to Yamraj or what is the deal about so do these people directly go or do they go through Yamraj their specific destination generally person is sinful then the person has to go to Yamraj so here Krishna is not tracing a detailed map of our post-mortem journey you know so he is just giving us a broad direction this is where he will go the specifics will vary so certainly if a person has done sin then there is some amount of judgement that is involved through Yamraj so they will go to Yamraj yes this is one clarification that Urdhva Gacchanti Satvastha means the living entity he gets purified and then he goes to the spiritual world then what happens that he becomes envious about the lord when he goes to the spiritual world before going he gets purified then he is qualified to go to spiritual world then how he can understand he becomes envious about the supreme lord and come down in the material world and what is the process of his fall down to material world what is the process of our fall down in the spiritual world so and Prabhupada asked this question too much when you go back you find out from Krishna Prabhupada basically gave some answers but the broad principle is that actually it is not necessary that something like envy has to come in the spiritual world it is just that it can also be a desire to serve Krishna in a way that is not possible in the spiritual world that could be like say by creation and when we want to create something and everything in spiritual world is eternal so we can’t create anything then we come to the material world and become Brahma for the sake of creation still there is a desire to serve but the desire to serve that begins the process that means the desire to serve in a way not possible in the spiritual world begins the process of our coming to the material world and once we are in the material world then we are in the arena of the modes arena of Mayadevi and then the temptations start so in contrast with this when we go back to the spiritual world at that time there are many factors that are different the most important difference is that we have experienced for ourselves the misery of material existence and that’s why there is no illusion for us and we could say that there are so many times we experience the sense gratification of the miserable but still we don’t learn the lesson and still we again go back to sense gratification in this world also we see so what’s the guarantee that that won’t happen over there actually we have to pass through a lot of tests of our free will of temptations when we are going towards Krishna and when we consistently choose Krishna that creates a positive attitude a positive mental trait of choosing Krishna so we cannot go back to the spiritual world just easily we have to keep choosing Krishna again and again day after day, month after month year after year and that habit continues on and that creates a momentum for us which sort of creates a journey which creates a speed which takes us beyond the spiritual world and it keeps us there we have the experience of the misery of choosing something other than Krishna and we also have the experience of the joy of choosing Krishna and because of this we will not fall back again and of course I mentioned earlier how Valdevidyahu says at the end of Govinda Bhashya that it is the Lord’s Bhakta Vatsalya that is our ultimate insurance that he has guaranteed that we will not come back and he loves us and actually for those who are devoted to him he can’t tolerate separation from them that’s why when they come back to him he will never let them go it’s not that he will interfere with their free will but it’s simply that he will make sure that through his love and through his guidance and through the remembrance that he gives them of whatever miseries they went through in the past they will make sure that all of them will come back to him stay with him okay yes Is there any possibility of going from hell directly to the spiritual world is there any possibility of going from hell directly to the spiritual world yes if you go to hell for preaching you know if you go to hell for preaching and from there we get complete our mission and we go back to the spiritual world that’s one way another way is that of course so of course there can be exceptions when devotees if there are some extraordinary compassionate devotees who come to hell and who pray and then at that point itself the souls are very remorseful and receptive and then when they accept that mercy and become purified it may happen but in general the exceptions are what needs are not necessarily the standard ways where things will happen so normally as you know it’s like a 14 storey building with 7 storeys above and 7 storeys above the ground level 7 storeys below the ground level so normally the way we come out is by coming to the 7 storey there is a martha gloka so occasionally it may happen in extraordinary situations of mercy but not always rarely it is there are some chances that from there only you can go back to spiritual world and if their punya is over they will come back like higher planetary system people but what about lower planetary systems they have to come to earth to go back to godhead and that is the one thing or and how they are elevated because they are already going down so is there any chance for them doing some good act and lifting them up how they are coming up yeah how do those from the lower planets come up generally generally there when their papa gets exhausted then they arise again it’s not necessary that they have to do some pious activities the lower planets to some extent like the lower species a dog doesn’t have to do any punya to eventually get a human form whatever papa the soul has done in the past humans body which causes soul to go down to the lower species when that papa gets exhausted soul comes back to the human species so it’s somewhat similar for the lower species lower planets also although like the heavenly residents they also have free will but it is more or less predetermined what all they can do within that free will and there is much more suffering than pleasure and they can’t do much about it they tolerate their suffering and then they come to the after their suffering is expired it is something similar to when a person goes to jail it’s a 10 years sentence is there then can this person come out of jail faster well there are exceptional situations when there is very good behaviour the person may be allowed to come quickly out but often it is not so quick often the 10 years period goes and it is not that the person does anything virtuous inside the jail because of which he comes out no whatever he had done wrong when that period gets exhausted he comes out again so it’s like that but what kind of activities they do if they are not able to do any virtuous activity but whatever they will do that will bring them more down what do they do in the in lower planetary system there is yeah in a sense there is the law of karma as we know it as it operates over here is not exactly in the same way over there so what are the activities that we do there is some indication in the 5th canto cosmology where it talks about the subterranean planet resistance so it does seem that they also have some they also sometimes have some worshipable deity whom they worship and when we say that it’s not that they can’t do pranayama papa they also have their roles to perform just like when a person goes to a lower species a person becomes a dog then the dog does its own set of activities depending it has got a particular kind of body and in that body it will do a certain set of activities same way applies every loka has its own form and according to that form they have a certain set of activities yes in the sequence of species decided Prabhupada does say that that the soul we come from the cow’s body to the human body through the mode of goodness from the tiger or lion’s body through the mode of passion and from the monkey’s body through the mode of ignorance so now that’s one indication but is it necessary that one has to go through a specific sequence or pass through all the species see generally speaking it is more like the individual karma that one faces that one has done that one has to undergo that will determine the next body so because everybody has not done the same karma so it is not necessary that everybody has to go through the 8.4 million species now sometimes it may be said that way but that is more of a statement of emphasis it’s like if you come to a particular city if you have got a old friend and to meet that friend you go to Nasik you don’t have any address and then you go searching searching searching searching you know where is this friend and you ask people ask people after a long time you find it and finally you know I search all of Nasik for you now that’s a statement which is emphasising the point that we search a lot but that doesn’t mean that one has to go to every house of Nasik and search so like that the emphasis is that once the human form is lost one may be away from the human form for a long time so it is not necessary that one has to go through a specific sequence which is preordained for all living beings just as in this life what are all the experiences that we go through are not standard for everyone they vary depending on the kind of karma that we have done in the past similarly what all species we will go through in the next life what all experiences we will have to go through will also be determined by our karma it doesn’t have to be necessarily standard ordained path for everyone if we say that the soul when it goes back to spiritual world from material world and they will never come back so conceptually won’t it be limiting of free will definitely in normal circumstances most of them will choose to be there that is very understandable we give example of not touching the current again but at the same time the person may still want to again touch although that may be kind of very abnormal but to say that a person when goes back to spiritual world never comes back because Krishna makes sure of it so won’t that be kind of limiting of free will objectively speaking so to say that we will never come back to the material world isn’t that interference with the free will yes we have to understand that when Krishna says something Krishna will make it happen but then there are also other principles which have to be taken into consideration because life always is never based on one decisions are never based on one factor so generally speaking if the soul has some residual enjoyment mentality remaining then that is tested and either fulfilled or dismissed so generally speaking the process of purification that will lead the soul eventually back to the spiritual world is itself so thorough that any other desire to enjoy that is there that is actually tested through so in that sense the desire will not remain but theoretically speaking we cannot deny the possibility it is like in English there is possibility and there is probability so although sometimes the two words are used in the same sense something is possible doesn’t mean it is probable so you know it’s possible that the next time I open my computer the circuitry of the computer may explode and my face may get burnt it’s possible but it’s not probable it’s not probable because that is the thing very very rarely it happens so in logic this is called as the inferential principle what is the word for it it’s called general induction or inferential principle that you know the pattern of events the way they have happened from the past to the present they will continue on in the future it’s like we say that is there any guarantee that tomorrow the sun will rise we can say that and I talk about this not from the point of view that we don’t consider that Krishna is in control from a non-theistic point of view we cannot say that there is a guarantee that the sun will rise but that is the way it has happened for all the time that we know and that is the way it is likely to happen and that is a reasonable postulate so that way we can say that there is some remote possibility that the soul may misuse the free will again but the probability is so low because the soul has been so thoroughly tested and because Krishna has assured so Krishna will make all possible arrangements to make sure that it doesn’t happen that it’s almost like disappearingly low it is almost negligible negligibly low are there some somewhere I heard that this Arjuna is a devotee of Krishna who keeps on travelling with him in different different universes he doesn’t go back exactly to spiritual is that correct or does Arjuna keep travelling with Krishna in the spiritual whichever species he goes well the understanding is that the intimate associates of Krishna are not changing the other associates may change like it is not that when Krishna performs this pastime in different universes different souls will become Yashoda or different souls will become Narmaharaj those intimate associates are the same now how can they be present in various species, various universes by Krishna’s arrangement they expand so similarly Arjuna is also present in multiple universes and he expands that’s how he is present everywhere now does that necessitate that he will not go back to the spiritual world I don’t think that has to be like that because they can expand so many forms in the material world they can expand even in spiritual world also and we do have in the first canto the statement that Pandavas retired time in that chapter, it does say that the Pandavas went back to the spiritual world in self-same body so that means that they did go back to the spiritual world so I don’t think that’s an issue they will surely be there, Arjuna is there wherever Krishna performs pastime but he is also there in the spiritual world yes who has a question these lower planetary systems generally who goes there lower planetary systems are they places of suffering or for those enjoying are the lower planetary systems the places of suffering well the lowest planetary systems which are below patala that is the narakloka so the narakloka is not the same as the patalas narakloka are the places of unmitigated suffering it’s like there is disease but no painkiller and no medicine allowed so it’s just suffering but the other planetary systems all those they are relatively speaking places of greater suffering than earth but that is not they are not like narakloka they are not places of unmitigated suffering so now there are some places which are almost like heavenly planets but in general the lower planets they also have some level of material prosperity and they also have the facility to enjoy over there but the sum total of suffering that is there if you see in the 5th kanto that is described it is mentioned that there are there are there are jewels and things like that in subterranean planets and there is some level of opulence also so they are considered lower for several reasons one is that the pleasure-pain balance is more on the it’s tilted more towards the side of pain in heavens, in earth the pleasure-pain balance is at this level it doesn’t mean pleasure and pain are equal the pain is much more than pleasure but if you consider this to be the steady stage the stage of earth then the pleasure-pain balance is more tilted towards pain in the lower planetary systems and it’s more tilted towards pleasure in the upper planetary systems but they are not places of unmitigated suffering as are the hellish planets those who does little sinful activities they go out there those who does little sinful activities those who do little sinful activities yeah it is well little is a relative word but yeah those who do heavily sinful activities they go to hell but those whose overall punya-paap balance is more towards paap but not grievously towards paap some more towards paap they go towards lower planets what exactly you have to say who are the yamadutas who becomes yamadutas and what is their destination sometimes you force me to speculate see in the scripture the yamadutas are persons who are described to be feared they are not objects of curiosity aap kahaan se aaye ho aap kahaan jaane wale ho they are meant their thoughts are meant to awaken that question for us not for them where am I where am I going from there is not much description as far as I have read but if you look at the heavens in the heavens it is not that everybody is an angel like Indra there are assistants to Indra who are more like his servants they also have some level of opulence but they are the servants so like that all the devatas have their servants and those servants by doing their service to that particular devata they get elevated now certainly the generally servants of Indra are the servants of any devata they don’t necessarily consider their master as a devotee of Vishnu and serve him in that way they may or may not have that conception and if you look at the description of yamadutas in the sixth canto it seems as if they did not even know about Narayana as the transcendental supreme lord they had some idea of Narayana as another god but their idea was that Yamraj is supreme for the sinful and Narayana also shouldn’t have any power to interfere with that so they did not have the idea of Narayana as the supreme and the way it is given in the Bhagavatam it does seem that that is the normal state of the Yamadutas they don’t know so much about the remaining cosmic affairs and the transcendental lord beyond the cosmos they are more concerned with doing their duties so one thing we can say is that they will become elevated by serving Yamraj but it’s not that they are serving Yamraj because he is a devotee so it’s not Vaishnava seva exactly that they are serving Yamraj if at all it is there it is a little bit on the source of Ajnatsukruti but even it is not so much because they are not conscious of devotion at all it’s like if a devotee has a factory and the employees serve that devotee as the owner of the factory are the employees getting Ajnatsukruti well not exactly Ajnatsukruti is something which we get when we do something for no material we are not conscious of that we are serving Krishna along with that there is also not the conscious objective of getting some material returns if I am having a garden and I also water Tulsi over there so now if somebody is doing a job in working in a company owned by a devotee that person really doesn’t have any attitude of service towards the employer it’s mostly an employment so certainly some benefit will be there because of the Sangha of that devotee but that if it is Ajnatsukruti it is a very very preliminary level of Ajnatsukruti similarly to a large extent what happens to the Yamadutas is that they gain some pious credits, they gain some merit by serving a powerful administrator of the universe so and they might get some spiritual benefits because that administrator is also an exalted devotee but that is not the primary thing now regarding who becomes Yamadutas generally speaking Janma Ishwara Shruta Shri Bheer that these four are considered to be the results of past Punya if one gets a good birth, one gets learning, one gets wealth and one gets beautiful form beautiful so now the Yamadutas their form is certainly quite ghastly so the very fact that they have that kind of form does indicate that they have done some kind of bad karma because of which they have got that form so still the fact that they are they are not the punished but the punishers indicates that they are not grossly or thoroughly sinful that means there is some blend of probably some of probably some something good and a lot of bad which gets them to that position that’s all primarily I can say at this stage yeah that reminds me is it clear you had asked that question about are the scriptures written literally so I checked yesterday Sridhar Swami’s commentary he mentions in the 10th canto that actually most of the statements in scriptures are the words of the are the literal words not all and which are not all basically there are two three classifications one is that if you look at the Vedas that means the Rig Veda they are all conversations in prose format so when say in Rishi Yajnavalkya is talking with his wife or with some other sages the conversation is basically in the format of text and that’s why recitation of that is done in a particular way but it is not now generally we use the word shloka as a generic word for all kinds of verses but actually shloka is one particular kind of chanda so actually the Bhagavad Gita’s verses are called as shloka and they are in the anushtup chanda so the bhagavatams are actually not technically called as shlokas in English we use the word verse generically for describing that so they can be in anushtup chanda they can be in various chandas so when they refer when Sridhar Swami refers actually the numbering system of the bhagavatam comes from Sridhar Swami before that and towards last after that also so normally in the acharya’s code atha bhagvate narayana parasarve just in bhagavatam is the verse there now the person who is reading has to find out where is this verse in the bhagavatam or atha bhagvate dvadashe skande naam nimna gaanam yatha ganga like that it will go on so the system of referencing was just the name of the book along with the canto number so the numbering system itself came up later I will explain that little bit later now so so first is that the conversations which normal people have are not in poetry format as we discussed yesterday so when people talk they don’t necessarily talk in poetry except bhagavad gita bhagavad gita was both Krishna and Arjuna were divinely inspired at that time Krishna of course is god but Arjuna was divinely inspired so the bhagavad gita itself is that’s why it is called as a gita and in fact even the scriptures itself the certain sections are referred to as gita for example this is uddhav gita this is gopi gita so they are specifically known to be poetic format but the remaining which is there it is Sridhar Swami explains because he is the literary incarnation of the lord he was able to retain the essential meaning while at the same time putting everything in a poetic format so for any other author that would have been nearly impossible but because he is the literary incarnation of the supreme lord so he is able to do that and that’s why although those words like Chakravarti Padme analyses this word pandita maa ninaha so for example Indra’s chastisement of Krishna in the govardhan lila so at that time Chakravarti Padme used Vyajastuti to explain that this is not a condemnation but a glorification so how is all this happening so Indra may not have used those exact same words literally speaking but that is the that is the general tenor of what he spoke and Vyajadev understanding that put it in the poetic format so the poetic format is not what is originally there that is the first thing second is that not everybody in that time speaks in Sanskrit not everybody so when Prabhupada is asked Prabhupada said that even in the spiritual world Vaikuntha the language is Sanskrit in Vrindavan the language is both Sanskrit and Rajabhasha so Rajabhasha is also there but Sanskrit is also there so the Gopis do know Sanskrit now actually the Gopis also have various groups and this whole thing is a little technical so actually it is said that the Gopis who are under Paranamasi you know Paranamasi is like a Brahmani she is a Tapasvi so those Gopis are under and she trains them in Sanskrit so so so those Gopis do know Sanskrit but not all Gopis necessarily know Sanskrit so it depends on who is their Yutheshwari and who are their leaders but the Gopi Gita most of it is Sanskrit those are there Krishna has millions of Gopis but the Gopi Gita is spoken by the primary Gopis actually it is said starts with Shri Gopiya Gopiya Uchu so Uchu is a plural and Gopiya is also plural so the Gopi is said but Jiyugoswami explains in the Krama Sandarbha that actually this indicates that each verse is spoken by one one Gopi but it is also that when that Gopi is speaking that Gopi is also representing one thought that all the Gopis feel at different times but for that Gopi that thought is the most prominent but that is also representing the thoughts of others so Jiyugoswami in Gopal Champu when he analyses this Gopi Gita he explains each verse he takes and analyses that verse and then he explains this verse is spoken by Lalita this verse is spoken by Vishaka this verse is spoken by Tungavidya like that he analyses the Gopi Gita so in general those those Gopis are the prominent Gopis so they do know Sanskrit so some characters may not know Sanskrit and then their speech is rendered in Sanskrit by Vyasadeva so for example there are the say the Vanaras in Ramlila or there are others so they may not necessarily know there are some somebody like say Guha they may not know Sanskrit so that is rendered into Sanskrit and the third is there are certain certain statements which are there for a narrative continuity see in a sense this is natural if you try to edit a spoken speech to make it into a book normally no matter how organised and refined the speaker is a spoken matter doesn’t have the the quality and continuity and connectivity that is there in written text so there is some amount of editing which is done to bring about the linkage so if you look at the content which is given there is some amount of editing that is definitely there so there is a relatively smooth continuity over there so the primary point is that Vyasadeva being the literary incarnation make sure that the meaning is not lost in any way so the conversations are what are the the conversations are what are you could say Sanskrit reconstructions which retain the essence ok any other questions Prajit it is told like Pandavas also went to hell like Bhima Bhima he took half of the share when they went to Anwas ok so did the Pandavas go to hell see the Mahabharata and the Bhagavatam they describe some stories in slightly different ways so some stories are are different because the focus is different and some stories are different because the Yugabheda is there the Kalpabheda or the Yugabheda is there they are referring to different times when the stories occur and some stories are different because you know one is more authorised version the other is not authorised is less authorised so I will explain what each of these possibilities means that with respect to the first you know did Bhishma fight on the side of the Kauravas because he was bound by the wealth of Duryodhana well Bhishma himself says that you know money is the master of everyone and no one is the master of money I am bound by the money of the Kauravas and that is why I have to fight against you this is what tells Yudhishtira now Bhishma says this from the Bhagavata’s point of view I understand it is simply Bhishma’s humility and Bhishma is doing it for the pleasure of the Supreme Lord so these are different perspectives this is one example of the reason for the contradiction with Mahabharata second is that it can refer to two different Yugas or two different Kalpas depending on which is the nature of the past time so the Pandavas for example the Mahabharata describes that the Pandavas go on, there is a Mahaprasthanik Parva in one of the last Parvas of the there is Mahaprasthanik Parva 17th and then Swarga Arohan Parva is the last Parva in the Mahabharata so Mahaprasthanik is the great departure so they go towards the north and then this whole story is described that when they are going upwards towards the north one by one they all fall so Draupadi, Sahadev, Nakula then Bhima then Arjuna all of them fall and only Yudhisthira is able to reach to the top and there a chariot from Swarga comes to take him so there are reasons given for why each of them falls and why they are not able to reach to the highest destination to the destination from which they will go towards Swarga and then it is said when Indra goes sorry when he goes to Yudhisthira goes to Swarga he is asked where are my brothers so then he sees that when he reaches Swarga there is a nice city situated in Swarga and when he sees he goes to Narka and he says why you brought me to Narka he says you only wanted to come he says no I didn’t want to come to Narka he says you wanted to go to your brothers so suddenly he says yes I wanted to go to my brothers but why you brought me to Narka and then he is taking away from here suddenly he has voices Yudhisthira please don’t leave us please don’t go away and then there are the voices of Bhima and others like that and he is shocked he says what perverse destiny is this that those who lived so virtuously they had to go to hell and then as he is thinking like this suddenly the whole vision disappears and then he finds himself in heaven and he finds that these brothers are there and they are reinstated in the position as devotees with the supreme lord so the idea is that this particular pastime which is there in the Mahabharata is given to illustrate the point that nobody in this world is entirely free from sin so when sins are there some amount of reaction will have to come to them so that’s why even they may have to see hell so this is the internal rationale of the pastime from the Mahabharata perspective now the Bhagavatam is describing an entirely different thing what is it describing that they went back to the spiritual world so these sort of issues are dealt by Madhavacharya in the Mahabharata and he explains that actually the Mahabharata in many ways is corrupt so it is just so big that to preserve it entirely accurately is very difficult so Rudranath Mahajan started a chapter by chapter translation of the Mahabharata and many years ago it was getting published one one set of translation in the Back to Godhead but then eventually Rudranath Mahajan abandoned the project because several reasons, one is that Madhavacharya very clearly says that we don’t have the precise Mahabharata with us second is that the Mahabharata contains so many things which which just don’t make sense according to our sense of morality not just our sense of morality, contemporary morality but even our sense of devotional morality and to help make sense of it, we would need to have extensive purports and then till now in the whole history of the 5000 years since Mahabharata has been there there is only one person who has written a commentary on the full Mahabharata Neelakanta, he was from Maharashtra and then he went to the north and did a lot of studies and he wrote a commentary so that is the only commentary in the Mahabharata, nobody else has been able to write Ganguly is the person who translated the Mahabharata into English so that also started in 17, no in between 1877 to 1888 or something like that so for 11 years he was just doing he writes the introduction that was like he was working in a teaching as a professor in a college he resigned from that and then somebody gave him a grant to translate the Mahabharata so for 11 years everyday he was doing like 12 hours work and that is how long it took for translation so it is a huge book now others have also translated now but the Mahabharata is a complex book so that is why whenever there is a difference between the Mahabharata and the Bhagavatam we understand that the Bhagavatam has been preserved in the tradition and that is why we refer to the Bhagavatam version and that doesn’t mean that we are saying the Mahabharata is necessarily wrong but as I said it can be from different perspectives it can be something that may have happened in different yugas and it can be something which is which is not the highest truth but which is to illustrate a certain perspective is it clear? that means the devotees those who become devotees and then they go back to spiritual world they all have to go to hell? no, no as I said the Bhagavatam and the Mahabharata is largely on the karmakand platform in the Mahabharata itself there is a reference to Vishnu’s supremacy but that is not the central teaching of the Mahabharata the Mahabharata focusses on the life of the Pandavas and the Pandavas don’t necessarily act as devotees the way we think of devotees constantly doing sadhana bhakti that sort of thing they don’t do they are primarily kings and the Mahabharata is a narration of their life story and they are also dharmic so from the karmakand point of view the person who is doing punya that person may also fall for sin in some way and the person will have to get some reactions for that that is what is illustrated but everybody doesn’t have to go because that is at the level of pappa and punya whereas we are now talking about bhakti where there is aham tvam sarva-papebhyo mokshe syami so let us move forward we were discussing how Krishna talks about transcendence so after talking about how goodness is good now we will move towards transcendence na anyam gunebhyah kartaram yada drashtanu pashyati gunebhyasya param veti madbhavam sodhi gacchati so one who sees that at the material level there is no one acting except the modes na anyam gunebhyah kartaram so apart from the guna nothing is acting yada drashtanu pashyati so such a seer who sees systematically gunebhyasya param veti he sees that there is something which is beyond the guna there is a param there is a transcendental being who is beyond the mode that is supreme lord one knows those two things that here everything is under matter and there is a being who is beyond matter such a person will attain my nature so here Krishna is not clearly telling who is that param but that he will make it clear in the last part of the verse last part of the chapter but here because the focus is not on giving knowledge about himself the focus is on explaining the modes and Krishna specifically asks this verse later then Krishna will answer so then madbhavam sodhi gacchati so what exactly does that mean to attain my bhav that he will elaborate in this verse guna netan atityatrin guna netan atityatrin ehi deha samudbhava ehi deha samudbhava jano mrtyu jara dukhair jano mrtyu jara dukhair so guna netan atityatrin when one goes beyond the three modes dehi deha samudbhava these modes are born because they arise because of having a body and then what happens jano mrtyu jara dukhair so one goes beyond the miseries of material existence one attains a special kind of mukti mukti and amrtam ashnate so amrtam ashnate is one attains eternal existence yaj jnatva amrtam ashnate Krishna had told us earlier in 13.13 yaj jnatva amrtam ashnate yaj jnatva amrtam ashnate so amrtam ashnate also comes something similar in 2.14 2.15 yam hinavithayante te purusham purushar shabha samadukha sukham dhiram somrutatvaya kalpate so there is kalpate one attains, here is ashnate one enjoys, one accepts, one enjoys so the same point, that here what Krishna is doing once one goes beyond the modes one will attain eternal existence so now Krishna is not really elaborating how the state of transcendence is to be attained or anything in detail about the state of transcendence but he just mentions that and naturally Arjuna’s curiosity is peaked and he asks three questions in the next verse so arjunavaccha kairlingais tringunanetam atitobhavatiprabho atitobhavatiprabho kumacharakathamshaitam kumacharakathamshaitam so there are three questions over here kairlingais by what characteristics does one know that does one know one who has transcended the modes and kimacharah kimacharah is what is misbehaviour so actually linga and achara are in a sense two different questions so linga refers to the inner characteristics achara refers to the external behaviour and third question is kathamativartate how does one go beyond the modes so what are the internal characteristics what is the external behaviour and what is the method of transcendence kairlingais kimacharah kathamativartate there are three questions and now krishna answers this question so 22-23 is the answer to kairlingais 24-25 is the answer to kimacharah and 26 is the answer to kimativartate kathamativartate so let’s look at it so first two verses here 22-23 will be answering what are the inner characteristics of the person kairlingais shri bhagwan uvacha prakasham chafravruttimcha mohamevacha pandava na dveshtisam pravruttani nanivruttani kankshati udasina vadasino gunairyona vichalyate gunavartante ityeva yo vatishthati na ingathe so let’s look at this much first this is the answer to the first question so now if you see what krishna is telling prakasha pravrutti and moha actually these are the characteristics of the three modes prakasha is the characteristic of goodness pravrutti is the characteristic of passion and moha is the characteristic of ignorance so krishna is saying that these three characteristics when na dveshti sam pravruttani when they come the person doesn’t resent them and na nivruttani kankshati when they go away one doesn’t hanker for them that means what does the person do is it that when i start feeling lusty or greedy i should not get worked up about it krishna explained that udasina vadasino this is actually we know that the same phrase this was used for krishna himself in 9.9 so krishna says that i am not bound by any of this because so here it says that just as krishna is transcendental the soul should become transcendental one is not disturbed by the modes why because one understands this is actually the product of the modes only one is not shaken was a word which was used for the yogi so so in 6.19 and 20 krishna talked about how when the person is free from desires then the person’s mind becomes fixed on inner meditation just as the wind the lamp in a windless place does not flicker so similarly so how does this happen actually here krishna is talking about a person who is the observer of his own mind you know we try to become observers of the world say now i am sitting observing who is how attentive who is bored all these things we naturally observe but krishna is telling that we can observe our own mind also so observing others is natural now observing the mind is not so easy but it is vital for us to make sure that we don’t get caught up by the mind so that means actually speaking you know when i start feeling angry and now if i just think now anger is entering into my mind then that itself you know if i say i am feeling angry that is i am already identifying with that emotion but if i don’t say that now anger is entering my mind let me observe let me stop it so it’s like actually speaking it’s not easy but it is possible that we can observe certain thoughts start creeping into their mind just like some person sometimes a thief tries to come on tiptoe noiselessly into the house so like that if you are alert you can start seeing some thoughts coming in and yesterday i was talking about reaction sequences that means there is certain perception it triggers of a set of actions which lead to a particular reaction so you can observe okay now this irritation is coming in and i have to deal with this whatever i can decide how i am going to deal with lust is coming in this is enemy this is not a friend although it seems to promise pleasure it will lead to misery so we can think in various ways depending on time, place, circumstance by which we can go beyond that influence but here the primary thing is we have to be self situated so just like a person yesterday i gave the example of the video game or a virtual reality to the extent the person is identifying with the virtual reality so say the person is driving a car and the car in a video game and the car crashes into a wall then the person identifies with the car and the driver too much he will also get shaken he may get jolted, he may get devastated to think that now i am dying so why does that happen? that’s because we identify with it very strongly so similarly we identify with the emotions that come in our mind which are resulting from interaction with the external world but to the extent we can distance ourselves from them then we can observe those emotions this is anger coming actually i am not a person who is it is not that i am getting angry but actually this is a stimulus which is being put into me from externals so the mind is like a ventriloquist you know what is a ventriloquist? ventriloquist is a person who throws his voice that is i am speaking from i am speaking here but if i were a ventriloquist you will be looking at me but suddenly you will feel my voice is coming from there wondering how is this voice this person is here but how is the voice coming from there but what the mind is a far more cunning ventriloquist normal ventriloquist you know they are there at one place and they make it feel as if the voice is coming from another place but the mind is such a thing that when the mind speaks it makes us think that the voice is not coming from somewhere else that is coming from me only so we think that the mind’s voice is our voice and if you see that way in that dhyayato vishan pumsa sequence actually initially it’s the it’s the mind’s voice look at that that’s nice isn’t it and you know you should get that that’s so enjoyable who says you can’t get it and then after that from the sammoha stage from that stage onwards the distance between the mind and us gets blurred and then we forget that actually we are not the mind, the mind’s emotions become our emotions, the mind’s ideas and plans and schemes become ours so before that actually if we just remember the feelings that I am feeling now are not my feelings the lust that I am feeling, the greed that I am feeling they are not my feelings although I am feeling that now why are they not my feelings because I will see that after maybe a few minutes or a few hours I will start thinking why did I do that this is not the kind of person I am this is not the person this is not what is true to my values, this is not what I want to do, it’s almost like from a metaphorical point of view sometimes when a person is possessed by a ghost the ghost takes control of the person and the person suddenly starts behaving in a very different way so this is a, the ghost possession is an example where one person behaves in a radically different way but sometimes that happens to us also when we are overcome by certain passions we start behaving in a radically different way so if we just identify this is like an evil desire possessing me now so as soon as I identify with that then immediately the influence of it decreases this is lust speaking, this is not my desire, this is lust speaking as soon as I identify that then what happens is if I accept the proposal then I become agitated about how to fulfil the proposal but if I don’t accept the proposal, if I identify that it is coming from the mind that it is external to me then yes I may still be agitated but my agitation is not to fulfil the proposal, it is to reject the proposal because this is something external which is being imposed on me so I hope this difference is clear once we identify with the mind then the problem is how to fulfil it and as long if we don’t identify with the mind we distance ourselves from the mind and the problem is how to silence it, how to reject it so here Krishna is telling that if we become the observer of our inner minds working then we can say ok this particular emotion this loba, prakasha praty and all these are coming because of the moods, they will come and they will go so let me not get too disturbed by that, let me I am a soul and I have an independent life I have a life different from and independent of these ups and downs which are created by the moods the Bhagavatam gives the example actually Vasudev instructs Kamsa that when a moon is reflected in the water then when the waves come in the water the moon seems to be shaking but actually nothing is happening to the moon so like that the soul is transcendental but when the soul misidentifies with the body and the mind it’s like the soul’s reflection is there in the water and when the body and mind are disturbed the soul also feels as if I am disturbed but if you understand that I am beyond then you will understand that I am not disturbed so by catching the mind when it is trying to affect us we can protect ourselves now ok one question observing the mind happens only in the mode of goodness and everybody has to come to the mode of goodness yes in some ways everybody has to come to the mode of goodness in terms of being somewhat analytical all seekers have to come but in some cases it might happen purely due to culture also that means some people are not exposed to a bad culture too much and then the mind never has dark desires too much then the samskaras are positive and then one doesn’t have to battle so much with the mind but in most cases there are negative samskaras and one has to battle with them so some people they can just keep they can just keep so busy in physical activity in Krishna’s service that they may not need this so much just happy to serve in Krishna but for most of us we will find that there are atleast sometimes in our life when we will have to this is just the mind speaking shut up I am not going to listen to it so it’s not easy after that also but just understanding that this is not my desire this is an imposition from outside that itself uses the will to fight when I identify that desire as my desire then that sabotages my will to fight because it’s my desire why should I fight myself you know I should fight whoever is obstructing me from the enjoyment that’s how it becomes but when I understand it’s not my desire it’s external imposition then my will to fight remains and in fact gets reinforced so now let’s look at the external behaviour sama dukha sukha swastha sama dukha sukha swastha sama loshtasma kanchanaha tulya priya priyo dhiras tulya nindatma samstutihi tulya nindatma samstutihi manap manayo tulyas tulyo mitra ripakshayo sarvarambha parityagi sarvarambha parityagi gunaati tahasa ujjate gunaati tahasa ujjate this is describing the external characteristics so how can we know so when we are able to observe and reject the modes like this then we can understand that we have transcended it also means that by doing this we can also transcend but then when we observe how do we know if somebody else has transcended we will have to observe that person’s behaviour and when all the dualities that come in life if the person can face those dualities with equanimity the key words here are sama and tulya is equipoised and the person is calm, steady sarvarambha parityagi he doesn’t have any material endeavours gunaati tahasa ujjate so in a sense Krishna has talked, again these characters are similar to the sitapragya but sitapragya was more in the terms of specific behaviours of a person who is situated in knowledge this is about the characteristics of a person who has transcended the modes, so technically speaking both are the same because one who is situated in knowledge will transcend the modes that’s why many of the characters we will see are similar is this a jnana way of coming out? definitely is this a part of anartha nivrtti for a bhakta, necessarily? well, not necessarily a devotee, as I said if the devotee develops artha pravrtti develops a positive desire to love and serve Krishna then that can overcome all these other things because of that inclination one will just not be bothered too much by the lower propensities by the effects of the modes because one is so filled with the desire to serve Krishna that one doesn’t leave much time for the mind to come up with its own stories so if you see Krishna is not describing this first part that that part is not describing it so much as a sadhana to be sought as a state which is there for a transcendent person so Krishna is not directly saying that you do like this what he is saying is that one who is transcendentally situated, that person is like this so now how one comes to that stage, Krishna will describe in the next verse and there he will talk about bhakti yoga so we can use this sometimes its not that constantly we are trying to analyse and observe our mind our primary focus is to constantly remember and serve Krishna but when we start feeling troubling emotions which seem to drag us away from Krishna and which drag us away from Krishna and which seem to be our own then we can use this analysis sometimes to check those emotions basically this sort of analysis is primarily to help us regain our fighting spirit now bhakti can help us to go beyond the modes but often we don’t feel like practising bhakti now when lust comes its not that chanting Hare Krishna cannot conquer lust but its that when lust comes I don’t feel like chanting Hare Krishna so when I identify actually this lust is not my emotion, its something which is coming from me externally, imposed on me then I will get the will to fight so we can do this analysis to restore our will to fight but another way to restore our will to fight is just by being attached to Krishna and devotees, that I want to please Krishna, I don’t want to please my spiritual master and that way also I can stay fixed in bhakti and not let even the other desires come, but then there are higher emotions which can help me to get rid of those lower emotions bhakti yoge na sevate sagunan samatit yaitan sagunan samatit yaitan brahma bhuyaye kalpate brahma bhuyaye kalpate so mam chayo avyabhicharena so avyabhicharena means undistracted it is not unmotivated, you remember we discussed this earlier that the person, if he wants to transcend the modes person should practise avyabhichari bhakti bhakti yoge na sevate this is the first time in bhagavad gita that the word bhakti yoga comes as a compound then sagunan samatit yaitan this person goes beyond the three modes and brahma bhuyaye kalpate this person attains the brahman platform so this is a significantly puzzling verse why? we quote it very often that how bhakti will attain the brahman platform but the question will come, bhakti is not meant to attain the brahman platform bhakti is meant to attain bhagwan so why is it said that by bhakti one will come to the brahman platform? the idea is that krishna is recommending bhakti as the means by which we can come to brahman platform also bhakti can take us to the bhagwan level also and krishna will tell that in 18.55 when he will say bhaktya ma mabhijanati and he will say that parabhakti is attained at that brahman platform itself, brahmaputapasannatmana sochitinakankshiti samasarveshu bhuteshu madbhaktim labhate param in 18.54 he will say that at the brahmaputas stage one will attain bhakti but here krishna is telling even for coming to the brahmaputas platform one should practise bhakti now how can once bhakti so this is the first puzzle which is resolved that bhakti is not meant to take us to the brahman platform it is meant to take us to something higher but even to come to the brahman platform krishna is recommending bhakti now the second question in this verse may be that krishna is saying that you transcend the modes by practising undeviating bhakti but then the problem is it is the modes that cause deviations in our bhakti the modes deviate us from practising bhakti then if i am told by undeviating bhakti you transcend the modes how is that a solution its like isn’t it like saying that you know if i say that i am i am not healthy because of this disease then somebody tells me by becoming healthy you overcome the disease is it like that no because health is a state whereas the process of becoming healthy is a process of bhakti yoga when we talk about avyabhicarena what is referred to over here is that according to our level we make it as unbreakable as possible and the more we make it strongly unbreakable the greater the transcendence that will be there so that unbreakable can be at various levels lowest level is that its unbreakable in terms that we never break the four regular principles we never stop chanting sixteen rounds then beyond that further unbreakable could be that we try to avoid offending devotees we try to avoid sin at a subtle level then at a further unbreakable level is that we don’t let sinful thoughts dwell too much in our mind as soon as they come we are alert and we purge them out at a higher unbreakable level it will be that we are constantly trying to either remember or serve krishna at a highest unbreakable level is that we are in love with krishna so unbreakable also is at multiple levels so at least at the grossest level like when we take initiation the unbreakable bhakti would be that we don’t break the regular principles we don’t we don’t make sure that we chant the sixteen rounds so that is also unbreakable bhakti so unbreakable is at multiple levels actually speaking in the bhakti path this unbreakability comes not so much by jnana but by guru nishtha the desire to please these are the lower modes and I will not succumb to them that is not the primary thing that helps a sadhaka to stay away from temptations which are caused by the modes it is guru nishtha that you know I want to please my spiritual master I don’t want to displease my spiritual master that is a motivation which is more emotionally evocative because when temptations come generally temptations don’t try to appeal to us at the level of logic and reasoning temptations appeal to us at the level of feelings you know nobody will tell us that when temptations start coming it is not that to be lusty is a more intelligent way of living than to be sober no maya will not tempt us like that there is more enjoyment over there so it will actually appeal to us at the level of feelings so then we can surely try to counter feelings by analysis by philosophical conviction but it is also good to counter feelings by feelings so if I have counter feelings by feelings means that we counter material feelings by spiritual feelings you are saying that I will feel good by enjoying but no this will displease my spiritual master and I will end up feeling worse than what I am feeling now so to the extent we can evoke feelings on our side of the battle, to the extent the battle will become easier to win because if it is feelings against us and logic for us it is an uphill task because we get blown by our feelings quite often so certainly we need logic, philosophy, analysis to win the war but along with that if we also have feelings then it helps us so then the battle in the case of bhakti, in the case of jnana, the battle is feelings on one side feelings on the side of maya and analysis and philosophy on the side of truth, side ride of spirit, that is a tough battle but when there is feelings on this side also then it is easier now Krishna will describe that after brahma bhuyaaya kalpate is attained the brahman platform but what next? then Krishna will describe that this brahman platform is a part of me, is supported by me brahma bhuta sorry, brahmanohi no, I didn’t say to reach brahman we need bhakti what I said is that by practising bhakti also we can attain brahman there are various ways to attain brahman but Krishna is recommending the best way to transcend the modes is by practising bhakti so brahmanohi pratishtham brahmanohi pratishtham amritasyamyayasyacha amritasyamyayasyacha syashvatasyachadharmasya syashvatasyachadharmasya so first part is what Prabhupada quotes the most over here brahmanohi pratishtham that I am the support of the brahman so pratishtham means support and then he further describes the characteristics of this brahman, this is amrit is avyaya syashvata, syashvata dharma and then sukhasyaikantikasyacha so now is the brahman the platform of ultimate happiness yes even bhakti is practised ultimately on the brahman platform only, brahman platform here refers to spiritual platform see the word brahman doesn’t necessarily have to refer to brahma jyoti brahman refers to spiritual platform as I said that the word brahman can refer to earlier in this chapter only referred to material nature sometimes it can refer to aham brahmasmi it can refer to the atma it can refer to the absolute truth also so generically normally the word brahman means the spiritual platform and at the spiritual platform is the highest happiness so that highest happiness of course is the happiness of bhakti so to attain the brahman platform is like becoming a millionaire but to attain bhakti is like acting like a millionaire if I am a millionaire just being a millionaire is not enjoyable, yes I am a millionaire but then I have to act on the level of a millionaire, then whatever pleasure is there in that I will get that similarly knowing that I am brahman is like becoming a millionaire but then I have to act at the brahman platform what do I do at the brahman platform serve Krishna, reciprocate bhakti with Krishna, reciprocate love with Krishna then one gets happiness so that becoming a millionaire is the platform but then acting as a millionaire is the way we relish whatever is available at the platform so Sukhasya Ikanti Kasya Choya is referring to the fact that the brahman platform is the platform where we will experience the highest happiness so Krishna here has talked about himself not too much in this chapter in the three modes of material nature he talks about himself first in 13.3 and 4 14.3 and 4 where he says that I am the seed giver for the Mahadhyoni Brahma and then after that in the analysis of three modes from verses 5 to verse 20 he doesn’t mention mom at all but then when he is finally talking about transcendence in two very vitally important verses he talks about mom 26 he says actually perform bhakti to me in a vichari way and then he says that the destination that is attained by transcending the mode that is brahman that is actually sustained by me supported by me so in that sense when Krishna is talking about the material world which is from verses 5 to 20 and how the modes influence the material world then he doesn’t talk about himself but when he is talking about originally how the soul comes to the material world he talks about himself and when the soul goes out of the material world he talks about himself there is the process of transcending through bhakti and then ultimately what is attained by transcending that is also supported by me so in that way although the reference to mom is not much in the Bhagavad Gita in this chapter but where it is is very critical now while talking of interaction in the material world Krishna doesn’t refer to himself but while coming to the soul entering into matter and soul coming out of matter Krishna refers to himself quite explicitly and in this way this chapter although it is about three modes it also leads to the glory of bhakti and that’s why it is as was said in 14.1 so we will continue tomorrow thank you very much