Gita Study Pune 2013 15.1-5 How the material world is comprehensible as well as incomprehensible

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna So today we begin with the 15th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita 15th chapter like the 12th chapter is the shortest among the Gita’s chapters with 20 verses but again like the 20th chapter, it contains among the most important themes of the Bhagavad Gita so it is called as Vaishnava Prabhupada’s Yoga of the Supreme Person or Purushottam Yoga so actually when Vyasadeva wrote down the Mahabharata he did not give any names to the chapters Hare Krishna so Shankaracharya was the first person who wrote a commentary on the Bhagavad Gita, at least among the commentaries that are existent today there may have been earlier commentaries but no commentaries prior to Shankaracharya’s are existing today in the world so Shankaracharya was the first person who gave names to the chapters of the Gita and those names, because he is the first commentator those names have been adopted more or less as standard so the names that we find in the Gita Prese Gita which we also use which I normally use when recitation happens, those are the names given by Shankaracharya however those are not the only names and sometimes those names do not really reflect the content of the chapter so for example, the fifth chapter is called as Karma Sanyasa Yoga by Shankaracharya and it is Prabhupada translates as Karma Yoga, Action in Krishna Consciousness so third chapter is Karma Yoga and fifth chapter is Karma Yoga Action in Krishna Consciousness so Karma Sanyasa Yoga actually is not a precise name because the whole Bhagavad Gita in the fifteenth chapter is talking about doing Karma not doing Sanyasa of Karma so however, Shankaracharya’s commentary is such that he tries to show how all those verses are ultimately recommending Karma Sanyasa so that’s why the Karma Sanyasa name comes up now the names in general fall in two broad categories which we will discuss shortly one is based on the Sadhana that they are talking about and the other is based on the Vibhuti of the Lord that is being revealed so for example Purushottam Yoga is not talking about a Sadhana so the word Yoga implies connection and connection happens in two ways there are two parties which have to be connected for example, when marriage happens then man and woman both are connected and for the marriage to be proper both of them have to be willing and cooperative so all the chapters of the Bhagavad Gita are called as Yoga so normally when we talk about Yoga we talk about connection and our focus is primarily on connection with Krishna so we connect ourselves with Krishna through the process of Yoga but sometimes it is not that we alone are trying to connect with Krishna Krishna is also trying to connect with us Krishna also wants to attract us back to him so in some cases in the process of Yoga there will be two parts when we try to connect with Krishna and when Krishna tries to connect with us now how does Krishna try to connect with us? by revelation he reveals his glories he reveals his attractiveness he reveals his love for us and through that he offers us greater impetus, greater inspiration to connect with him so the names of the Gita chapters are all having the undercurrent of Yoga or having the common denominator the common conclusion of Yoga but some chapters are Yoga in the sense of Sadhana that is Karma Yoga, Karma Sanyasa Yoga Jnana Karma Sanyasa Yoga so all these are talking about what we should do in order to, what is the Sadhana that we should follow by which we will connect with Krishna but the other set of chapters are talking about the revelation of God which is can either be about himself or about the material world which ultimately connects with him so for example, Vibhuti Yoga we can say it is for us to meditate on Vibhuti another way to understand it is that actually those Vibhuti’s are God’s revelations Purushottama Yoga is not in and of itself talking about a Sadhana but it is a revelation of God as Purushottama how Krishna is the greatest of all persons, the best of all persons and in fact the word Purushottama itself will come in the Bhagavad Gita in this chapter, in a very strategically important verse in 15.19 yo mam eva samudho janati purushottama sarva vid bhajati mam sarva bhave na bharata so one who understands me as Purushottama is a person he says, he is the most wise he knows everything and he will worship me whole heartedly this is the word Purushottama so Krishna’s goal in a sense in speaking this chapter is to help us to understand him to be Purushottama the word Purushottama comes elsewhere also it is not a word reserved to that context alone but there it comes in a very critical position to help us understand the vital necessity of understanding Krishna’s position as Purushottama so this chapter’s title is based on Krishna’s self-revelation so it’s like another way of looking at it is that one is to go towards Krishna we should know the path by which we will go to him and second is we should want to go towards him so wanting to go towards him comes when we understand how he is the greatest sadhya and going towards him happens when we get the right sadhan so some of the chapters of the Gita are focussing on sadhan some of the chapters are focussing on the sadhya and so accordingly the yoga can be from our side Karma Sanyasa Yoga means from our side we have to practise Karma Sanyasa Purushottama Yoga means the yoga is from Krishna’s side that Krishna is revealing his glory to us so that we can become attracted to him so I hope this point, two ways of looking at yoga are clear now let’s look at the connection how is Arjuna Vishala Yoga it is also seen in Eriksa Yoga so that is more or less like preparing the setting so that is also from our side in the sense that although Krishna doesn’t speak much in that chapter it shows how we have the reason to turn towards God because this world is a place of frustration this world is a place of bewilderment it is a place of perplexity so we just don’t know what to do so the lamentation that makes us connect with God that is the theme of that chapter so in that sense it is yoga from our side and when there is lamentation that will make us feel helpless and that may make us turn towards God so let’s start with the first verse of the 15th chapter as it is called as Purushottama Yoga so it has, here you will see five broad sections first it talks about the upside down banyan tree and it talks about how one can attain liberation by detachment from this upside down banyan tree which is of material existence and then 7 to 11 it describes if one doesn’t strive for liberation then one will continue on in material existence and go through transmigration in bondage after that for those people who are thus bound in material existence how can they rise to a higher consciousness they can see how even in their material existence Krishna is assisting them so 12, 13, 14 talks about how Krishna assists even those who are in samsara chakra and 15 talks about how He gives them spiritual knowledge by which they can come out of the samsara chakra and then the knowledge that will help us to come out of the samsara chakra is the knowledge about Bhagawan, His transcendental position because it is He who is going to help us come out so understanding His supreme, unchallenged eternal position that is critical and that is called as the Trishloki Bhagavad Gita it is the essence of Vedanta so when Krishna gives us knowledge by which we can come out of material existence the centre of that knowledge is how He is all attractive how He is supreme by which we can focus our love and service on Him and then last two verses talk about how we can become situated in adequate knowledge by knowing Krishna, when we know Krishna then we know all that is essential for us to know so let’s start Sri Bhagavan Vacha Bhur Dramula Madharshakam Bhur Dramula Madharshakam Asvattham Prahuravayam Asvattham Prahuravayam Chandam Siyasya Chandam Siyasya Paranaani Chandam Siyasya Paranaani Yastam Veda Sa Veda Veda Yastam Veda Sa Veda Veda So Bhur Dramula Bhur Dramula means the mula is upwards Sanskrit is very simple, the roots are upwards Adhashakam the branches are downwards Asvattham Prahuravayam Asvattham Prahuravayam So such is the Asvattha tree So now the Asvattha literally means a banyan tree actually it’s broadly speaking a tree of the fig family, so it can refer also to the banyan tree, so Sri Raghupat says it refers to the banyan tree and it’s it’s a it’s because the banyan tree has a lot of branches upwards and downwards, which we’ll discuss a little later, and Prahur Avayam So now Prahur means it is said so what is it, is it said to be a banyan tree or is it said to be imperishable so it is said that there is an imperishable banyan tree, Prahur Avayam, so Asvattha Avayam, there is a tree so now we know that the material existence is temporary, it is not Avayam, in the sense that the manifestations of the matter are temporary but the material world is like a jail so specific prisoners may not stay in the jail forever, but the jail stays on forever, because other prisoners come in so the imperishability Avayam is not referring to our stay in the world because in the 4th, 5th, 6th verses, Krishna will talk about how we can come out of this world by so by the weapon of detachment so Avayam refers to the nature of the material existence continuing in principle, but not necessarily for everyone so a tree has many features to it, it has leaves so it is said the leaves are the Chanda Chanda refers to the Vedic literature is this in the temple or is this outside, this music so now the tree which has no leaves does not look very attractive there are deciduous trees in which the leaves fall off during certain seasons so then those trees look very barren, and the leaves come back they look attractive and from the leaves ultimately certain transformations take place, by which flowers and fruits come about so similarly this world without the Vedic guidance even if we talk about Chanda, the Vedic hymns primarily talk about Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha but this world would be barren without the principle of connection with God so Chandaamsi Yasyaparanaani that the leaves of this tree are the Chanda, just as the Vedic Chanda, the Vedic mantras when recited, when the Vedic knowledge when applied, will lead to further good Vedic knowledge will lead to Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha just as the leaves lead to fruits, flowers and fruits similarly the Vedic hymns lead to the desirable results in this world now, it’s interesting the Vedic hymns are the leaves but Krishna doesn’t say that one who knows these leaves knows the tree he is the knower of the Vedas he doesn’t say the leaves are the Vedic hymns but Krishna doesn’t say that one who knows the leaves will know the Vedic hymns or one who knows the Vedic hymns will know the leaves, he says one who knows the tree is the Vedavid that means the Vedic plan is far greater than just the Vedic hymns the Vedic hymns are the Chandas but just knowing the Vedic hymns doesn’t make one a Vedavid just knowing the leaves doesn’t make us a Vedavid we have to know the full tree that means the Vedic hymns themselves are a part of a broader plan which is given in the complete Vedic library and that is for the sake of liberation from material existence so this Vedavid we can correlate this later with Sarvavid which Krishna will talk about in 15.19 so there Krishna says one who knows me is Sarvavid one who knows me is the knower of everything so Krishna is in the first verse itself telling there is this upside down tree and one who knows the full tree is the knower of the Vedas although the Vedas themselves are only a part of the leaves are the leaves are a part of the tree now this is very clearly yeah yes one who knows this tree no if you see that way in Sanskrit the way the words are pronounced yes so actually the whole verse is primarily referring to the tree of material existence within that there are some elements there are rules of Sanskrit grammar by which that pronoun it is not just referring it is a part of the concluding part of the sentence and when it comes to the concluding part of the sentence it doesn’t necessarily refer to what is preceding just immediately what is preceding throughout it is referring to that so yes some way one who knows this tree entirely is the knower of the Vedas now this verse is clearly a metaphorical verse because literally speaking we don’t see any tree such as this tree existing with upside down orientation so what is this referring to so Krishna in and of itself will not explain it but we can look at it and understand that such a tree we see in a reflection upside down with branches up and with branches down and the roots up so we see in a reflection so this world in that sense now the tree very clearly refers to the material world that will become very clear later on as the verses move forward so the material world is a reflection of the spiritual world so what is highest in the spiritual world will be lowest in the material world what this means is that in the spiritual world the Madhurya Rasa is the highest and in the Madhurya Rasa the Parakiya Bhava is considered the highest but in the material world when there is love outside of wedlock that is considered to be the lowest so in this way also we see that the material world is a reflection of the spiritual world and along with that this world because it is Ashwa it is upside down so Ashwa Tha so Ashwa is a tree Tha is to be situated so it is situated like a tree what does it mean that actually Ashwa is a horse so not a tree so Ashwa is a horse and Tha is to be situated so Ashwa Tha is to be situated like a horse so that means that the horse often has a habit of standing on three legs so the idea is that three fourths of them exist in the spiritual world and only one fourth is in the material world so when a horse is standing on three legs it is not the most comfortable position although it has four legs to stand on three legs is not as comfortable as to stand on four legs so just as one leg is hanging up for a horse who is standing on three legs similarly this one part of material existence is hanging around although the whole material existence is normal this part is upside down so Prabhupada says that imagine if somebody ties a person upside down that person will never be comfortable so like that in this material existence we cannot be comfortable no matter how much we try we can have some temporary pleasure but ultimately we can’t be comfortable here one who knows this is the knower of everything now after describing this introductory verse we’ll move forward to give some further details about this tree so now before we move to the details what is the connection between this and the previous chapter again the connection is not linear it is conceptual now the linear would mean that some verse prior to this verse led to this topic no, so those are not verses which are directly connected but the connection is conceptual based on 13.22 as the Bijya Vakya so the Bijya Vakya tells about how because of the enjoying mentality the soul comes to the material world and experiences good and bad that is the seed of material existence the bhungte now that bhungte, that seed leads to a tree so the modes which nourish the tree, which cause the tree to grow are described in the 14th chapter and now the tree proper is described in the 15th chapter so the connection is more conceptual than linear then after that let’s look at the further things that Krishna will tell about this tree to us adhashya urdhvam prasruta tasya shakha guna pravruddha vishaya pravala guna pravruddha vishaya pravala adhashya mulanya nusantatani adhashya mulanya nusantatani karmanubandheni manushya loke karmanubandheni manushya loke so adhashya urdhvam prasruta tasya shakha so it is interesting, first he said that the branches go down but now he is saying the branches also go up what does this mean? actually, the tree’s growth happens to the branches, that’s visible the tree’s roots are also growing but that is never visible so the growth of the branches refers to the way the soul moves about in the material existence so sometimes the soul moves up sometimes the soul moves down so like that some branches move up some branches move down the branches grow in all ways however primarily in the material existence the soul is left to himself, the soul has a tendency to get degraded so that’s why first Krishna referred to it as the branches move downwards but later on he will say the branches also move upwards prasruta tasya guna pravruddha vishaya pravala so this tree is nourished by the gunas, by the three modes and vishaya pravalaha the sense objects are the vishaya are the twigs that means the further parts of the branches which lead to further things and adhasya moolani anusantatani so even the roots move downwards so what does it mean, roots move downwards? actually, the material existence is complicated and whichever way the conditioned soul is moving the conditioned soul’s desires are also moving, some desires are upwards some desires are downwards some desires are keeping him to stay over there itself karmanubandhini manushyaloke now manushyaloke is a significant word because the karma bandhan primarily applies to the manushyas it applies primarily to the human beings we discussed this earlier the other living beings are not bound to material existence with the strict laws of karma as they are on the martyaloka, the other levels of existence, swargaloka or other places the laws of karma are not so severe they are somewhat different karmanubandhini so by karma anubandhini is to be systematically bound now, after describing this tree of material existence, Arjuna has a question you know, this doesn’t make it is quite difficult to understand so Krishna replies don’t bother, it’s not only difficult to understand it’s impossible to understand so, Jaidat Maharaj wrote an article called, in Back to Godhead called don’t figure it out, get out so don’t figure it out get out so, here Krishna describes that actually this material existence cannot really be understood narupam asyehatato palabhyate narupam asyehatato palabhyate nanto na chadhir na chasam pratishtha nanto na chadhir na chasam pratishtha asvatthame nam suvirudha mulam asvatthame nam suvirudha mulam asangasastre na drudhena chittva asangasastre na drudhena chittva tatah padam tat parimargi tavyam tatah padam tat parimargi tavyam yasmin gataana nivartanti bhuyah yasmin gataana nivartanti bhuyah tam evacadyam purusham prapadye tam evacadyam purusham prapadye yata pravrtti prasrutha purani yata pravrtti prasrutha purani so first thing Krishna says is narupam asyehatato palabhyate that this rupa upalabhyate to try to understand it is nearly impossible. na anto na chadhir na chasam pratishta So where it begins, where it ends, what is its foundation, it is almost impossible to know.
Where did we earlier encounter something similar, that the beginning, the end, the middle, we don’t know it? Yes. anadi vadhyantam anantaviryam anantabhahum shishiseryanetram na antam na madhyam na punas tavadim vashyamivishveshvaravishvarupa So twice Krishna while referring to the virat rupa said that actually I don’t know where is the middle, beginning and end. So in a sense the virat rupa and the vruksha, asvattha vruksha both are referring to the same thing in non-literal terms.
The virat rupa is also a representation for the sake of some understanding and the upside down banyan tree is also a representation for conceptual understanding. So both are referring to the material existence and actually both are telling us how the material existence is profoundly incomprehensible. So I wrote an article about some scientists, some researchers try to say that Einstein was an atheist.
So that is what the atheists try to do is they try to get all the big thinkers on their side. It is somehow not true because most of the big scientists, those who are founders of the branches of science, they have all believed in God. So actually Einstein he was born a Jew and he was not exactly a believer and especially he was mortified by the slaughter of the Jews that happened during the second world war and prior to that also and he was repelled by the idea of God as was revealed in the old testament.
He had some appreciation for the personality of Jesus but he was not very he did not like the conception of God and especially he found the problem of evil difficult to reconcile with a good God and that is a problem which is almost all thinkers in the western tradition have faced because they have said that without bringing in a previous life the sufferings in this world cannot just make sense. Why are some people born poor? Why are some people born wealthy? Why are some people born healthy? Why are some people born handicapped? It just doesn’t make any sense. So he just couldn’t sense it out.
So by his study of religion he moved towards atheism and he made it clear he has statements about atheism but by his study of science by his study of science he felt strongly that there has to be some organising principle there has to be some organising principle and that led him to the conclusion that there is some intelligence so his belief was not in a personal God but he believed that there is an organising principle which is beyond this world and that he says it can be referred to as God. Towards the later years of his life he did talk about God. So one of the statements that Einstein made is that the most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible.
So what does it mean? I’ll explain this in terms of He said that the most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible. So why comprehensible means that which can be understood. So why is the understandability of the universe such a matter of mystery? Why is that incomprehensible? Because from the atheistic point of view if the universe just erupted from a big bang then why should first of all it organise itself into such systematic structures and patterns That is the first question The second question is why should those structures and patterns be such that they can be comprehended by the human mind.
Much of the design which is there in the universe it is there and we can understand it to be a design. So imagine that two people are talking they are having an intelligent conversation but if they have nothing to do with us they will be talking in their own language So if I suddenly wake up from sleep and I find myself at a distant place but I find the people over there talking in the same language in which I am talking So I don’t know what that place is but I see all the people talking in my language I understand it and I naturally feel there is some connection over here So we just wake up we get born in this universe and much of the universe is comprehensible So why is it comprehensible to us? So that means this is slightly different from the design argument The design argument is that there is design in the universe This is a deeper argument not only is there design in the universe the design is such that we can understand it maybe not completely but partially So even if there is a design it could have been such a way that we don’t have to understand it Why is it that we are able to understand the universe at least to some extent So that means I have quoted in my God particle article one famous scientist he asked another scientist that you know, what is it that causes the electron to move in its orbit at a particular speed at 186,000 miles per second in the speed of light What is it that causes it to move? What is it that causes matter to obey the laws of E is equal to mc squared So again there are two aspects to this Why matter is behaving according to certain patterns and then those patterns are discernible by us human beings So if you see mathematics is not a branch of knowledge like physics or chemistry Physics and chemistry are dealing with things Mathematics is largely a purely conceptual branch of knowledge You know we have equations, we have calculus, we have geometry These are all conceptual things But something which is just fashioned by the human mind’s conception Why should that accurately correlate with the way nature functions Now why should the equations of maths be able to accurately describe the behaviour of particles in the world So I hope the question is clear here There is a physical world The design argument is that the physical world has design, that is fine But this is not called as a design argument, this is called as a purpose argument or the meaning argument So there is a difference between design and purpose Normally all design is for a purpose But the design and purpose don’t necessarily have to be together So why is the universe meaningful Why is the universe meaningful in a way that it is meaningful to us So we think in particular ways and we have come up with the branch of mathematics Now if you see most of the discoveries in mathematics, for example they have this whole concept of calculus and then there are so many equations which mathematics came up They just came up in the brains of some scientists and they did not even have idea that it could be used later on for studying nature And then that came out to be used by nature So There is a Eugene Wigner, we discussed about him in our device, so he has said that you know he has written a article called the irrational rationality of nature So why is nature rational That is irrational Why should nature be rational Why should nature behave in a way that can be comprehended by the human mind, that can be described by mathematics and that follows such precise equations So the understanding is that actually nature is a reflection is an expression of the wisdom of God and we all human beings have been given a spark of the wisdom of God So the same brain that fashioned the universe that same brain is manifest within us in sparks So That we are all sparks of God So we cannot understand the universe in its totality, but we can understand it partially, why Because God’s brain that designed it we are parts of that, so we have some partial glimpse of that So same way with respect to another argument for the existence of God is the moral argument We may discuss in 15.15 in more detail But it is related, you know different people may have different conceptions of morality But all people all over the world accept the concept of morality If one person shouts at another person you shouldn’t talk like that Now the way a person behaves disrespectfully and what kind of behaviour is considered disrespectful may vary according to culture to culture to culture But still, there is a concept of proper behaviour and improper behaviour and this proper and improper behaviour, right and wrong behaviour, it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with survival Darwin’s idea was that survival of the fittest is the only barometer for deciding of behaviour But we see a human being when he sees somebody else is drowning in the river, that person jumps down into the river and tries to save that other person Now, humanitarianism compassion, sacrifice martyrdom, all these are completely against the survival of the fittest the struggle for existence because normally the idea would be that all of us should try to save ourselves but we see in nature that people go out of their way to save others and not only they go out of their way to save others, we don’t consider this to be wrong If we were just driven by our genes, we should think this person is a fool to try to save others But we don’t consider it to be wrong, we consider it to be noble we consider it to be glorious So, from where in our personality does this moral sense which comes to us, the moral sense which is often not in agreement with the survival instinct which often goes against the survival instinct but we consider it not as indiscreet, not as undesirable, but as laudable, as praiseworthy So, again the answer for this is, so again now the moral argument, different people may have different conceptions of morality that is okay, but the principle of morality is universal, even atheists have the conception of morality you know, Bertrand Russell was an atheist and he would have discussions on atheism with his friends in his house, but when he would have these discussions, he would make sure that all the doors were locked and none of the servants of his house were allowed to hear the discussions because his idea was that time the religion was Christianity so he said, if people come to know, if my servants come to know that there is no God, then what will stop them from stealing from my house? So, you know he had the idea that actually, once you remove God then morality has no basis so he wanted to remove God but he didn’t want morality to be removed he said, yeah, God doesn’t exist, but let them believe that there is God, so that they will be moral so, we intrinsically connect the concept of morality with God, and even atheists do that, why? because the understanding is that God has created us with an innate sense of what is right and wrong now that innate sense of right and wrong, that internal compass may get slightly variably expressed according to circumstances but that compass is there within everyone of us now you know, we talk about honesty among theists, and we say it is foolishness but still it is some level of honesty, isn’t it? so even theists who are robbing they will say, we should all divide equally and now they will consider it proper, and even the theists they will say, if somebody takes more than others why are you doing this? that means, the theists also have some conception of rightness and wrongness, although their conception of rightness and wrongness may not include rightness towards the person from whom they are robbing so this change in the conception of rightness and wrongness will happen depending on how the modes are influencing a person but still the conception of rightness and wrongness remains you know, even a person who is drunk you know, if people pay and they take liquor they say, you drank too much, you should pay more so they also have so everybody no matter how distorted the expression they have the concept of right and wrong the way it is expressed will vary so where does this concept of right and wrong come from? Darwinian evolution is completely inadequate to explain this because many times the concept of right and wrong is not in agreement with the concept of what is beneficial or harmful for survival sometimes it is, but in many times it is not the case so what this indicates is that actually the creator who has made us has given along with the creation a sense of the direction in which we are supposed to go a sense of right and wrong is placed within us by the creator and we can either choose to follow it or we can choose to reject it so that is what we call as the conscience so now in the Christian traditions there is not the understanding that God is himself present within our heart and super soul, but still they have understanding that God has created in us an innate compass and that compass may get covered and distorted but that compass is very much there so the point which we are discussing we are discussing the argument of meaning and the argument of morality so these are talking about how the universe is to some extent comprehensible to us but at the same time it is not fully comprehensible to us because we are only sparks of God we are not God ourselves so we can understand the universe in part and we cannot understand it in full Einstein, he did not like the idea that the whole universe is operating in chaos and that is why he said God does not play dice now what was he saying, what was he meaning by God does not play dice his meaning basically was that in quantum physics everything seems to be so arbitrary and random that there seems to be no pattern to the behaviour particles seem to appear and disappear out of existence I don’t want to go into technicalities of quantum physics over here because even quantum physicists don’t understand it so actually quantum physics works extraordinarily well as a mathematical tool for manipulating matter but as a cognition tool to understand what it is it is nearly impossible to understand so there is a famous quote of one prominent quantum physicist, so one of his students asked him, sir this doesn’t make sense, how do you make sense so he replied, shut up, start calculating shut up and start calculating and that has become the standard answer which quantum physicists give whenever any complex questions are asked to them because somehow again, see quantum physics what it illustrates the equations work the equations work but the equations don’t relate with any picture of what the world is like what it means is that quantum physics just conceals the whole world in terms of waves there are no solid particles so now I see this as a solid particle, you see me Hare Krishna, you see my body is made of solid particles but Hare Krishna Hare Krishna what happened Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, ok fine I have to treat this mic as untouchable now so the Hare Krishna so again Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare Hare Ram, Hare Ram Ram Ram, Hare Hare, ok fine so the quantum physics is something which is there is no way to correlate it with the idea that all of existence is nothing but waves that is just something you can’t conceptualise because the world will make sense only when we think of it as objects so there is no visual image, for example for every scientific theory before this, there was some visual image Dalton’s atom was there or even Einstein’s space time is not so easily conceivable, but it is there the space time as a continuum is there but quantum physics you just can’t conceive it at all but eventually as quantum physics started giving more and more results in terms of mathematically accurate results now Einstein became very frustrated and actually Einstein died as a, quite a he felt that his mission in life has failed he wanted to explain the whole universe through some scientific models, but quantum physics he felt just no explanation at all because there is mathematical equations but they just don’t make sense in humanly conceptual terms so one of the last statements he made is that I feel as if the whole ground has been pulled out from under me and wherever I look there is no place where I can stand so why did he say such a thing, because he just felt that nothing makes sense in terms of a conceptual understanding, although mathematically the tools were working, so why has this happened, because science as a tool can help us understand things, but God is not just a scientist, God is also an artist so you know, what is, science progresses by demystifying the familiar demystifying the familiar means what? that whatever I see, sorry demystifying the unfamiliar I see something, I see a very complex machine, a villager comes along and he sees, hey what is this small device with which you are talking with somebody in another part of the world that seems unfamiliar but once I understand science then what happens? I demystify it, ok, there is silicon over here and there is a technology by which waves get propagated and sound can be converted into electromagnetic waves into waves that can be transmitted through the atmosphere and that’s how the whole process is so what happens is, science essentially progresses by demystifying things that means that which is mysterious that which is not comprehensible science tries to bring it into comprehensible terms whereas art is exactly the opposite art progresses by mystifying the familiar by mystifying the familiar, the picture of Mona Lisa is just a picture of a woman but the expression on her face is so enigmatic that so many people are attracted by that you know, whenever we have quotable quotes, you know, it is not that the words in the quotable quotes are unfamiliar, but they are brought together in such a attractive way that they convey a meaning that was not available earlier in music also, how does music progress? Actually the essential notes are the same, but they are brought together in such a way that a new level of insight a new level of experience is reached, so in this sense, science and art they progress in two opposite directions science focusses on demystifying the unfamiliar that which I can’t understand I demystify it whereas art progresses by mystifying the familiar words are familiar but the meaning that comes to it is something very special, something very striking, something very new so what happens is that, for example people talk about Shakespeare’s works every time you read it, you get deeper inside now we say the same thing about Bhagavad Gita Christians may say that about the Bible so the idea is that these are not just works of science, they are works of art Bhagavad Gita is a poetry and as people read it then you get deeper and deeper insight into those words, so the work of art is such that there are multiple levels of meaning in it so the creation is not just a work of science the creation is also a work of art and that’s why when we come to one level of meaning, at the start of the 20th century Lord Kelvin said that now we have practically understood the whole universe and for the all future generations, the work of the physicist is going to be very mechanical we just have to fill in the details of what we have understood but he said the statement and within 10 years first Einstein came up with relativity and then Planck and others came up with quantum physics, and there is a whole book written, the history of ideas in the 20th century, they say from certainty to uncertainty that is the name of the book you know, everything that seems certain and clear has become uncertain and unclear by the end of the 20th century, there is a famous quantum physicist he said that quantum is the greatest success in the history of science, because so far reaching are the implications and applications of the quantum but the quantum also remains the greatest embarrassment of science because despite having used it so much we still don’t understand what is a quantum so we are using it, we are not understanding it so, what has happened is as the science has progressed the sense of meaning has become all the more illusive, so why has this happened because science approaches the world just as an object of science you try to demystify it but the world is not just an object of science it is also an object of art so, it is an object of art as soon as we come to one level of meaning there is a deeper level of meaning and there is still a deeper level of meaning so that way the world reveals the endless artistry of the divine and that is why we can never get to the bottom of things as soon as we get to the bottom of things we find that the bottom has gone further down and then it goes on and on so Stephen Hawking regarding what I am discussing today I have written an article about this called the incomprehensible comprehensibility and the comprehensible incomprehensibility of the world so don’t bother if you don’t understand but basically the point is Stephen Hawking he said that by the turn of the 20th century we should be able to understand the whole world and then he said I am happy to announce that humanity’s quest for knowledge will never end what does that mean? it means we will stay in ignorance that is not necessarily something to be proud about but actually science may be a very powerful tool for analysis and manipulation but as far as comprehension is concerned, human mind will never be able to comprehend the world in its fullness because this world is an exhibition of the endless artistry of God so what does it mean? if I can’t understand it then how do I live in the world? now we understand it enough so that we can get out of it with the shastra of asanga with the shastra of detachment we get out of this world see the vedic scriptures also talk a lot about material knowledge for example we have sankhya in the 3rd chapter 3rd canto of the bhagavatam the bhagavatam talks about material nature thrice exhaustively, in detail for 2nd chapter it talks about the virat rupa 2nd canto virat rupa, 3rd canto the sankhya and 5th canto is cosmology all these 3 sections where it talks about matter in elaborate terms these sections are preceded and concluded by a description about how this analysis will help one to fix one’s mind on the absolute truth so the idea is we meditate on the material world to get out of the material world whereas the materialists they meditate on the world so that they can better control and manipulate the world and that purpose can never be served no matter how much we can get to know the world so when Krishna talks about if Krishna is going to say this whole thing is not to be understood then what is the purpose of studying it no, we understand it enough so that we can get out of it we understand this is upside down and Krishna says its roots are very deep therefore we have to cut it off so now actually when we cut off we don’t cut off the whole tree of material existence we cut off our entanglement with the tree of material existence so every soul has to work that out himself nobody else can become liberated for us on our behalf they cannot strive for and gain liberation on our behalf everyone has to do it ourselves that is done by the weapon of detachment this asanga shastra is very significant because the bija vakya was what purushya prakriti sthohi bhumte prakriti jan gunan karanam guna sangosya so guna sanga is what causes us to become entangled so what will cause us liberation is asanga so attachment causes bondage and detachment leads to liberation so with determination because its not going to happen in one or two days detachment has to be practised day after day, month after month year after year and significantly now this whole section may be taken by mayavadis as its all very metaphorical but right after that Krishna will bring in personalistic terms you get detached from material existence but after that what? you go into attain that pada after becoming detached from material existence attain a particular decision what is that decision? from which you will never fall back again so earlier it is said that this world you go up and go down in this world but you can go somewhere attain that pada from where you will not fall back now after saying this he says that also is not enough don’t just attain the destination from which you will not fall back there tam eva chadyam purusham prapadyam at that spiritual platform surrender to the purusha the supreme being and who is this purusha? from him the whole universe has come out that means what Krishna is saying about is this purusha is not a product of material existence you go beyond material existence attain a platform from which you don’t fall back and on that platform surrender to the purusha from whom the whole creation has come about so this indicates very clearly that this purusha is not material this purusha is transcendental because that purusha is to be attained after one comes to a platform that is beyond material existence Chaitanya Mahaprabhu while talking out with Prakashanth Saraswati Chaitanya Mahaprabhu also uses a similar logic he says the Upanishads say that the creation began with Saha Ekshitaha he glanced so now Chaitanya Mahaprabhu raises the argument that according to Mayavadis there are no senses in the transcendental realm all senses are in the material realm so after material creation manifests then there are senses but here it is said that the creation began with a glance so who was it that was glancing that indicated that there were some senses that existed before the creation and that means they existed before the material senses came into existence that means those senses are not material and the person who has those senses are also not material the same way here, the similar logic that this person who is being talked about here is transcendental Yasmin Itapravrti Prasutapurani from him the whole creation has come about now so first he said, that means disentangled from the material world has two parts first is Asanga Shastra and then is Prapadye so one has to have detachment, but detachment alone is not enough if one wants complete liberation then one has to surrender to the Supreme Lord now Krishna will combine this Asanga Shastra and Prapadye in one verse which is like a summary description of how to become disentangled from material existence that is the next verse so Prabhupada explained this verse describing the process of surrender so nirmana moha jita sanga dosha so nir is without maana moha so the soul thinks that I am very powerful and influential person in the world and that causes maana and that maana is a form of moha so one has to become free from the idea that I am a very great person in this world and I should continue my existence nirmana moha jita sanga dosha so as long as we think that we are in a comfortable position in this world we want to continue the comfortable position when we understand that this position is very insecure and unpredictable and dangerous, then we want to get out of it so that’s why maana, the pride is something which makes us want to hold on to that which will give us the pride so when I am proud of something that pride automatically leads to attachment because all material pride is based on something external to me if I am proud of my wealth I am proud of my power, I am proud of my positions that pride automatically necessitates attachment because in the material world all my pride comes from something which is external to me so when Krishna is saying that we have to surrender it’s nirmana moha, when we give up pride, then naturally we will be able to get away from the things which cause this pride, we will not stay attached to those things nirmana moha jita sanga dosha so jita sanga dosha so earlier Krishna talked about asanga shastrena in two verses before, jita sanga dosha so by the contact what is the dosha that comes into the atma by the contact with material things it is that this is good, this is bad this is nice, this is not so nice sanga dosha, the whole relativistic vision of thinking some material things to be good and some material things to be bad that is a sanga dosha bhadra bhadra jnana saba mano dharma, chaitanya mahaprabhu says ei bhala ei manda ei saba brahma bhadra bhadra jnana, sarva mano dharma he says that actually in the material world ultimately speaking there is nothing good jita sanga dosha now how can one become free from this dosha by remembering one’s spiritual identity adhyatma nitya to the extent that I remember I am atma, then I won’t get attached to any of the worldly things, because they don’t really matter to me vinivrttaka maha so nivrtta is retirement vinivrtta is permanent retirement so Prabhupada translates this very graphically as done with lust vinivrttaka maha I am done with you sometimes people get fed up with somebody else two partners are working together and they have tested each other’s patience and now they decide I am done with you get out, I am done with you I am leaving you now so like that Prabhupada says done with lust so vinivrttaka maha when one understands that actually this will never lead to happiness it will only lead to continuous entanglement so then a person wants to become free from it most of the times when people engage in lust it is not because the pleasure is so irresistible but it is because resistance is so intolerable there is a difference between the two when a person drinks if you take it in terms of intoxication before we come to lust it is not that the pleasure of drinking is so irresistible but rather it is because the resistance is so intolerable you just can’t resist at that particular time so actually it is more because there is a craving, there is a suffering which one hopes will go away and we think that to be pleasure so when a person understands this nature that actually this is not a pleasure this is simply a concealed suffering then the person becomes ready to give that up so vinivrttaka maha so Prabhupada often gives example that how in and of itself we will never get retirement from lust an ordinary employee will never allow us to retire they will never allow us to retire so it is not that the pleasure is so good but it is that not enjoying not giving in to the pleasure is so torturous is so troublesome it is actually not that the pleasure is so good but when the desire comes saying no to the desire it causes so much pain it causes so much agitation and hankering that we give in to it so Prabhupada would quote off on that verse that I have, Kaam and others they have given me so many bad instructions I have followed them so many times but ultimately that it has not given me peace it has not given me satisfaction and they are never merciful to me therefore what I have understood is sometimes if I am in a jail if a person behaves very well in the jail then there is hope that the person will be released from the jail maybe on time or even before time sometimes it happens because of good behaviour but it has been introduced to 4 years there are some masters who may be punishing but still they are also having some heart so if you behave properly they will allow you to go but he says that no matter how well we serve them they will never become merciful so the only way to get free from the prison is not by good behaviour but it is by fighting back by rejecting therefore he says I reject these masters so now my buddhi is awakened that such masters that they will never release me on their own no matter how much I serve them therefore now that I am rejecting them naturally they will try to hit me back much worse therefore I seek your protection my dear lord please accept me as your servant and protect me so actually speaking sometimes people have this whole idea that there is come after so the whole idea and then later on the desires will subside and then they will go away actually it may happen but whenever it happens it is going to happen by a conscious decision to renounce it is not going to happen by automatic detachment it is not that when a person grows older automatically the desires will go away yes the body’s capacity to enjoy will decrease but still the desires will keep coming and whenever a person becomes disentangled that is by a conscious decision to renounce it is not by automatic detachment that will manifest so that’s why if there is a conscious decision to renounce that is always required then better earlier than later better earlier than later so that’s why the vedic culture recommends that that earlier, in Jebala Upanishad it is said some people argue some smart brahmins they argue that actually the whole concept, every brahmachari has to become a grahastha that the whole concept of going from brahmachari directly to later ashrams, that is non-vedic but the Jebala Upanishad has a very clear verse which says that the moment renunciation arises renounce the world the moment renunciation arises, renounce the world so that doesn’t say that after you become old you renounce the world but the moment renunciation arises one should renounce the world and actually in Mayavada Sampradaya when they have sannyas the ritual of sannyas is quite sobering frightening actually when they take sannyas in wherever the sannyas ceremony is held they actually make a funeral pyre and the sannyasi he takes off all his clothes except his kopin and he lies down on the funeral pyre they only don’t light the funeral pyre that’s all so the idea is that generally speaking in the Mayavada Sampradaya often they perform sannyas at the Manikarnika ghat so actually here he is on the funeral pyre and there are other funeral pyres where actually people are burning also, where the body is burning so that is the implication of this sannyas as civil suicide you know that actually the sannyasi is dead for all material purposes so after the sannyasi accepts that now so when he lies down on the funeral pyre and then he comes out of the funeral pyre and he takes a bath and then he comes and surrenders to the guru so at that time it is said that now the person is changed so it is this ritual which according to them so the idea is so the ritual is very sobering but they give a twist which is very intoxicating so they have the idea that now once you have gone through the ritual of going through the funeral pyre and taking a bath then now you have shed the shackles that make Brahman come under illusion now you are liberated Brahman so that part is not proper in that interpretation but the fact remains that actually renunciation is something which is a very serious business and is almost equivalent to social death so whatever age a person takes sannyas not necessarily in terms of becoming a sannyasi but in the sense of becoming renounced that always happens by a conscious decision it is never an automatic progression that will happen there has to be a conscious decision at some time there may be automatic progression that may happen at a subconscious level now for example what is the difference between this conscious decision and automatic progression for example we might all have been attached to cricket sometime we decided this is just a waste of time so I will not work at it so that is a conscious decision and then after a few years you hear India won the world cup what is the big deal so the decision to become detached, to become renounced was a conscious decision and at a subconscious level an automatic progression is taking place where now we become indifferent towards cricket so the automatic progression will happen at a subconscious level but at the same time there has to be some point where one has to take a conscious decision otherwise the automatic progression doesn’t take place that means if I keep stoking the fires of lust then whatever purification I am doing, I am putting water on it or the bhakti I am inflaming and it is again detachment means sometimes we may read some books or people may devotees may read some mundane books or they may see some movies or watch some cricket matches and they may feel there is no fun in this so that is as the purification is taking place at a subconscious level there is a progress in detachment but still eventually at one particular point one has to take a conscious decision to renounce so so if you want to become free from lust then you understand that all the dualities of this world don’t really matter, good and bad and then such a person will go why? because such a person is unbewildered Krishna has used the word mudha many times it is a person who is bewildered by material nature so here is a mudha which is unbewildered he will attain the imperishable supreme destination now till now Krishna has not identified that paramapurusha with himself he has not used that paramapurusha he has not referred to that paramapurusha in first person terms he has referred to the paramapurusha in third person terms he will attain that, that supreme person now Krishna will take that that actually he will say that that supreme destination which he will attain is my abode only so in that sense he is indirectly stating that that supreme person is me only but he will make this more clear in 15.17 and 18 so here how is he stating it first he says you know if you go this way you will come to the house of the prime minister and that house is the biggest house in the country and that house is the most well protected and that house is the most respected and that is my house so what does it mean? that means I am the prime minister isn’t it? so here Krishna says that is the supreme abode you will attain by all this, when you go there, that is where the supreme person resides and now Krishna will tell the next verse that actually that is my abode so that is my abode so this phrase Krishna is using for the second time in the Bhagavad Gita the first time he is using 8.22 8.22 was 21 or 22? 8.21 I think 8.21 is 8.20 so 8.21 isn’t it? so there also Krishna is making it clear that that is the that is the that is my supreme abode, that means he is making it clear earlier also, there also we will study the 8th chapter right now but in the 8th chapter also Krishna first describes how the process of yoga is meant to meditate on the supreme person and then he hints that actually that supreme person is me only so similarly over here now Krishna doesn’t want to focus on his glories directly when he is talking about when Arjuna asks him to talk about Vibhuti yoga, he will talk about maam maam maam every time, but when Arjuna is not broaching that subject directly, he doesn’t bring in maam unless it is essential so he brings it in indirectly over here, so he is saying that that abode of mine the words are also very the words are also very specific it is not saying that in that abode there is no sun, there is no moon, there are no stars it is not like that it is that abode is not illumined by the sun, moon or the stars, what does it mean that, that abode does not depend for illumination of the sun, moon and the fire it is self luminous it is self luminous and we know in the spiritual world there are the sun, moon, stars and fire and then the Sharad Purnima happens there is the moon over there and Govindallah would describe the Ashtapraharya Leela of the Lord this past time, this time this past time and this time so time is there and the time is determined by the position of the sun in the sky so time is important and that is determined by the sun, so sun is there moon is there, but there is no dependence on them for illumination in that sense actually that is the supreme abode, it is self luminous so he describes basically three characteristics, he says that is self luminous once one goes there one doesn’t return and that is my abode so yeah ok so is the birth past time not there in the spiritual world because it is time related past time not exactly the birth past time is not there in the spiritual world because Krishna resides eternally in the spiritual world so so Yashodamayi is always the mother of Krishna and it is never that there was a time in the spiritual world when Yashodamayi was there and Krishna was not there there is a time like that in the material world when she was not yet become, she was not yet expecting and at that time she was there without Krishna, but there is no time in the spiritual world when there is no Krishna so in that sense the birth past time is not there but the Baal Leela is there separate from the demon killing the demons are not there in the spiritual world all the fears of the demons are there, rumours about the demons are there but the Baal Leela is there you know Anandana Champu in Anandana Champu explains that just as Krishna is the source of all Vishnu forms similarly the Kaishore Roop of Krishna is the source of all the various forms of Krishna so various forms means there is the Kumara Roopa there is the Pauganda Roopa and there is the Kaishore Roopa so the Kumara Roopa is the Vatsalya Rasa Vigraha the Pauganda Roopa is the Sakya Rasa Vigraha and the Kaishore Roopa is the Madhura Rasa Vigraha what does it mean Rasa Vigraha it means that that Roopa the Kumara Roopa is the most suited for Vatsalya Rasa you know Yashodamayi if she wants to offer Krishna his breast milk she cannot offer it to a 15 year old boy she needs a baby for that so similarly actually friendship between friends actually it is the especially between boys it is most intimate before boys discover girls discover girls means not that girls are hidden but that attraction between male and female is not there so the Sakya Rasa is most intense and intimate before the puberty comes so that is why the Pauganda Roopa that is considered to be the Sakya Rasa Vigraha and the Kaishore Roopa is the Madhura Rasa Vigraha that is the time when the male-female attraction is the most so he describes that actually all these forms are eternally present in the Kaishore Roopa that means the Kumara Roopa and the Pauganda Roopa they are all present within the Kaishore Roopa and depending on which Leela Krishna is performing Krishna manifests that Roopa accordingly so when Krishna comes in the forest performing Leela with the Gopis at that time he manifests in the Kaishore Roopa but when he comes back home and when he is reciprocating pastimes with Mother Yashoda and Nanda Maharaj at that time from that Kaishore Roopa the Kumara Roopa manifests so the Yashoda and Nanda Maharaj they never see Krishna as an old boy they see him as their tender child and that’s how they relish Krishna’s pastimes now the whole pastime of Krishna getting married to the Gopis that is described either in the Brahma Vyavastha Puran or in the Gopal Champu Garga Samhita or Gopal Champu that is only in the material world so the idea is that Krishna manifests his pastimes in a way that maximises the reciprocation of Rasa and for that purpose he manifests the form also so the Baal Leela is there but the Janma Leela is not there correct so there are pastimes with Yashodamayi and Radharani are also together so actually speaking Krishna he arranges things in such a way that the both are sort of they get the appropriate Rasa so this is slightly esoteric it is you know in the Ujjwal Neelamani it is described how when Krishna comes back from the forest and his face is dusty so the dust mark that are on the face of Krishna the mother and motherly Gopis they interpret it differently and the Radharani and other Gopis interpret it differently so depending on the Rasa they see it differently so what happens is Krishna there are some pastimes where both Rasa’s overlap but Krishna manifests things in such a way that actually speaking there is no Rasabhas there is no Rasabhas so Yashodamayi naturally Krishna is a small child for her but like parents, the parents always want to think about the future of their children so Yashodamayi is also concerned that in the future Krishna should get married and for her Radharani is the ideal person with whom she will get married so in that sense Radharani is also involved in the pastime but she doesn’t think that this is the time for them to have a conjugal relationship so their idea is that whatever Rasa is required for a particular relationship, Krishna by his Yogamaya arranges for that but he arranges in such a way that even when multiple Rasa’s Krishna is exchanging at the same time every person sees Krishna in a particular way so that Rasabhas doesn’t occur isn’t it? Govardhan pastime is also like that everybody is reciprocating Rasa with Krishna and Yashodamayi is saying Krishna please eat something Krishna eat some butter so she is still thinking Krishna is a small child but the Gopis are attracted to him in a different way over there correct, correct so for example Kaumarlila and others is there a progression of time in the spiritual world there is a correct, correct so is there a progression of time in the spiritual world in the sense of Krishna say growing up Krishna is small now and Krishna grows up I have not read any specific statement about this but the way things are described see Gopinath is a very esoteric book and we are not recommended to read it in fact that was one of the books that we should not read it but we know our other Acharyas have talked about what its contents are and its contents are basically a book which talks about the different pastimes that Krishna performs at different times of the day so now the idea is that Krishna performs all the various pastimes all those pastimes and these pastimes when he performs according to the time that is described so in the in the stage of in the stage of Bhava Bhakti or Prema Bhakti very advanced stage what the Sadhaka does is or what the devotee does is the devotee according to the time of the day meditates on the pastime that Krishna is performing at that time in the spiritual world so that is the Dhyana Amrita Paddhati that has been talked about in the Gaudiya tradition so that means that Krishna does perform certain pastimes at particular times and the way it seems to be described in that book it is like the same pastimes similar pastimes go on day after day after day so it is said that Krishna’s eternal age in the spiritual world is something like 15 to 16 years rather the eternal age is 14 to 15 years so what that means is that there is no concept of Krishna growing up so the pastimes such that the various pastimes Krishna performs and accordingly manifests a particular form but the idea of growing up is not there and in fact there is no growing up for anyone in the spiritual world and Yashodamayi is middle aged and the Maharaja is slightly more than middle aged and that is how they eternally are there are children in the spiritual world and they are eternally children eternally there are certain Sakhas of Krishna who are pre-puberty and there are certain Sakhis of Radharani there are certain Manjaris Manjaris are also pre-puberty so they are eternally that way and that is how they serve Krishna eternally see puberty as a concept is not there that means puberty should not be used in the way we use it in the material world but it basically means the Madhurya Rasa the awakening of the attraction between Krishna and the Gopis so that attraction in a conjugal sense that doesn’t happen below a particular age so in Gopal Chempu there is a chapter called as awakening of Purva Raga so Purva Raga is the emotion that awakens before the Rasa Leela is performed so the indication is that before that the Purva Raga was not there the Gopis, they are still attracted to Krishna but they are just attracted to small boys and girls playing together but at that particular time then from that Madhurya Rasa starts awakening yes is time entirely inconceivable or is it just time without a destructive effect yes primarily time has a sort of cyclic effect which it brings about so that the past times keep getting performed again and again but there is no destruction there is no destruction now is it entirely inconceivable there is certainly something inconceivable about it because Krishna he doesn’t have to think my past time with you was from this time to this time time is getting over now I have to go it’s not like that Krishna can expand time Krishna can expand time now of course sometimes it may appear as if for the sake of Rasa now Krishna may appear to be late so Radharani is waiting for Krishna and Krishna doesn’t come on time and Radharani is searching where is Krishna and Radharani sends other Gopis in search of Krishna and then they find that Krishna is with some other Gopi and Radharani gets very angry with Krishna so now that is done by Krishna just to enhance the Rasa so the point here is that it’s not that Krishna is controlled by time but sometimes to enhance the Rasa there may be certain past time which appears when Krishna comes late or something like that but Krishna can expand time whenever he wants so Krishna is not controlled by time, time is controlled by him so in that sense the time is not the way we understand it so in that sense you can say it is also inconceivable yeah yes ordinary souls so but how we can understand that the Nanda Maharaj they think Krishna is an ordinary boy not something like a God how Yogamaya covers them although they are very pure souls that’s why they are participating in Krishna’s pastimes and at the same time they are also covered by Yogamaya how we can understand this point yes so they are very pure souls and how can they forget Krishna and how can they get covered by Yogamaya actually it is because they are such pure souls that they can love Krishna even without knowing his Godhood see the idea is in the world we want to love somebody who is we want to have a connection with somebody who is very powerful and influential later it will come in handy they have the idea that we will get something out of it out of that but their love is so pure that irrespective of what Krishna is they love him and it is because of that such purity of love that Krishna conceals his Godhood for them so why does Krishna conceal his Godhood because he wants to reciprocate pure love and those who love him purely to facilitate that pure reciprocation of love Krishna covers their awareness of his Godhood also so it’s not that Krishna is God who conceals his Godhood so that he can relish love so in Krishna Leela God conceals his Godhood so that love can reign supreme so that love can reign supreme so that means how does it happen it is because their love is so pure and because Krishna wants to reciprocate pure love so he arranges Yogamaya to conceal that clear yes Babaji this past tense of feeling of separation comes in Yashodamaya and Nandamaharaj also when Kurukshetra battle happens and they go to meet Krishna so this feeling of separation within the heart of Yashodamaya and Nandamaharaj is there in the spiritual world also because there is is there feeling of separation in the spiritual world also? yes definitely every time when Krishna goes out in the forest the Rajivasis Yashodamaya and Nandamaharaj they feel separated from Krishna and every time when Krishna performs the past tense of the Gopis and he goes home, the Gopis feel separated from Krishna so there is a continuous union and separation that makes the devotional life in the spiritual world very alive very exciting there is definitely separation and union there is no past tense like that of Kurukshetra because it is Goloka Vrindavan only, Krishna will not leave Vrindavan yes is there also in the spiritual world? well yes, Jiyu Goswami talks about this elaborately in his Brahma Samhita commentary no we have a commentary of Brahma Samhita that we have is what was published in the name of Bhaktasaheb Thakur, but before that Jiyu Goswami’s very scholarly commentary and Prabhupada asked Tamal Krishna Maharaj to put that into English, so he has also done that not just put that into English, he has to write a commentary based on, Prabhupada told Tamal Krishna Maharaj I cannot write a commentary on that on Brahma Samhita but because Bhaktasaheb Thakur is a grand spiritual master you can write so he has written now currently the editing is going on I am helping that, in the future it will be published so he has given an elaborate explanation of this, so Jiyu Goswami’s commentary has already been translated, Bhanu Maharaj has already published that Brahma Samhita commentary but what Tamal Krishna Maharaj has done is that he has taken Jiyu Goswami’s commentary, he has taken Bhaktasaheb Thakur’s commentary, he has taken Prabhupada’s general comments from various books and he has integrated them all together, so it is much more accessible for us, so basically there it is described that the spiritual world has parts, so one part the spiritual world, by spiritual world we refer to Goloka Vrindavan so Goloka Vrindavan has a part of it as Navadvip and there Chetan Mahaprabhu and his associates perform eternally fasts, and the mood of Navadvip is that Krishna is never manifest directly over there Krishna is manifest there primarily as Harinav so that’s how it is that’s how it is in Navadvip also, so all the Navadvip and Vrindavan are two parts but they never overlap directly, they are two distinct parts of the spiritual world and the pastimes are performed there eternally over there like that, now the Navadvip pastimes are not the sannyas so in the spiritual world Chetan Mahaprabhu is never a sannyasi he is performing Sankirtan forever with his associates ok one or two more questions then we will stop actually in this verse the word proper concepts was illuminate illuminate, so that is not illuminate by sun or moon but as we see in what context exactly this word proper is used as we see there is also sun and moon and when the sun sets the moon rises and night is there again the sun rises so in the sense of just the body is being spiritual the environment is spiritually lit up yeah so it is not illuminate by the sun and the moon what does it exactly mean there is darkness when the sun arises when the sun sets and there is light when the sun rises see, when we say that everything in the spiritual world is self luminous that is a truth, but that truth is subordinate to the truth that Krishna performs pastimes and whatever is for the enhancement of the pastimes that’s like there are desire trees in the spiritual world but when Radharani wants to serve food to Krishna she personally cooks, she doesn’t tell the desire tree give me halwa, give me pakoda, give me puri no, she personally cooks the desire trees are there but Radharani wants to personally serve Krishna so similarly things are self luminous in the spiritual world but whether the self luminosity will always be manifested or not the desire trees have the potential to provide everything but whether that potential will be utilised or not will depend on the Leela specifically being performed similarly, especially the desire trees are used when Krishna is performing pastimes in the forest and some big arrangement is required then Yogamaya, she sometimes asks the Gopis to perform the, Gopis to make the arrangements or she sometimes asks the desire trees to provide whatever is required for the arrangements so Yogamaya, Puranamasi they make the arrangements for pastimes sometimes they may use the desire trees potency also but not always similarly the self luminosity of everything in the spiritual world may or may not be manifested depending on what is dependent on what is uncool for the pastime of Krishna for the relishing of prasad during the pastime yes ok 2-3 questions, last 3 questions we’ll come to you Yogamaya also arranges there are two personalities Tulsi Devi itself is Yogamaya she also has parrots she arranges she is the one who is doing the service and Yogamaya also second is this Tulsi Maharani existing as a plant also in the spiritual world or only as a personality the third is that we were just trying to capture this what is given in the holy book so Tulsi Maharani is arranging the pastimes of Krishna but then Yogamaya is also there so my understanding is that Yogamaya and Vrindadevi are the same person I am not seeing either like Madhavidak, Madhavgopalji where the two are separate presentist characters but Yogamaya is present with Paurnamasi so both of them together plan the pastimes of Krishna and is she present as a Tulsi plant also in the spiritual world perhaps there is no reason why she can’t be present if that is required for the pastimes of Krishna she is certainly present as a damsel as a goddess who requires but I don’t see any reason I don’t remember specifically whether there is no now we know that Tulsi is present in Vaikuntha so there is no reason why she should not be present in Goloka so now there is a particular story which is described in the Puranas especially in the Padma Purana where how Tulsi manifests in this world but these stories Vishwanath Chaturthi explains they are not about how for example, there is a story about how Krishna got got the Panchajanya or how he got Sudarshan Chakra or whatever so Chakravartipada explains these stories are not about how these paraphernalia of the Lord originated because this paraphernalia is eternal but these stories are just about how during that pastime that paraphernalia reunited with the Lord so Panchajanya is literally the consul of Krishna but in the material world when Krishna goes down to find the son of Sandipani Muni and then in the ocean he finds this demon Panchajanya and he kills him and then he gets his Panchajanya consul so these are just pastimes are just to describe how the Lord unites with this paraphernalia they don’t describe how the paraphernalia originates similarly the story of Tulsi Maharani coming in a particular way to the material world because there is a whole long story about that is a story centred around Tulsi Shalagram Vivaha so that is just to describe how Tulsi manifests in this world now regarding the story of Rama and Tulsi Devi having a sort of conflict and they are getting cursed and then they are coming to the material world our Acharyas have not quoted that story directly ever, although it is there in the Puranas and it is described that that story does not reflect so Bhakti Sahaja Thakur talks about something called as Asura Mohan Leela Asura Mohan Leela means it appears as if Krishna left his body when he went back to the spiritual world so now Krishna’s body is transcendental so how can Krishna leave a body so he says that just as when Mohini Murthi appeared Mohini Murthi is Vishnu himself but Mohini Murthi the way she reciprocated was different for different people for the demons she gave, for the devatas she gave nectar but from that same Mohini Murthi the Asuras, the only thing they got was Mohan they got delusion by that, why? it is not that Mohini Murthi was malicious but because their mentality was such that they had a malevolent mentality, they wanted to harm others then Mohini Murthi reciprocated accordingly and then deluded them so that their malevolent intentions their intention to harm others would not be successful so similarly he says that Chakravarti Paats also quotes this Chakravarti Paats says that Bhagavatam is also like this, for those who have ulterior motives while approaching Bhagavatam Bhagavatam will also cause Mohan and Yuga Swami explained that there are certain pastimes of the Lord which are Asura Mohan Leela that means those pastimes actually are described in the scriptures just so that those people who are antithetical to God they can stay away they can stay on with their misconceptions so now what is the basis for calling some pastimes as Asura Mohan basically there is, the scriptures have a unified Siddhanta and wherever the pastimes seem to indicate something that is contradictory to Siddhanta then either that pastime has to be understood properly so that the contradiction doesn’t come out or there is no contradiction remaining over there or actually it is understood that these pastimes are performed by the Lord just like Mohini Murthy performed the pastimes so that the atheists can be deluded so in that sense we don’t consider this pastime to have necessarily a factual basis in something that happened in the spiritual world so it is primarily meant for Asura Mohan ok Asura Mohan doesn’t necessarily mean that everything is meaningless see for example Mohini Murthy bewildering the Asuras the Lord is deluding others, that is Asura Mohan but within that also we can learn about how the demons they start fighting with each other when they see something materially attractive and how the demons try to create a good impression against women in the presence of women among the demons ultimately there is no virtue there is just might is right so within the Asura Mohan also certain lessons can be learnt but the basic principle of the Asura Mohan Leela is not to demonstrate a Siddhanta you know the last time I discussed about how context is very important you know even when Krishna speaks something which is not the absolute truth, we don’t accept it Krishna is himself the absolute truth but in Govardhan Leela he speaks so we don’t consider that to be the absolute truth so any past time that is there or any speech that is there the context is very important to see you know for example Hiranyakashipu says that now if we just kill all the demons, if we stop all Yajna, then when all the Yajna is stopped then no fire sacrifice will be performed and then all the Devatas will become weak and they will starve and they will die now later on when Brahmaji appears, he will glorify Brahmaji only as if you are supreme you are the cause of all causes, you are transcendental you are this, you are that so Chakravarti Padasa Siddhaswamy explained that actually Hiranyakashipu is not a Vaishnavacharya presenting Siddhantic truth over here he is a self-serving demon who wants to speak whatever will promote his purposes so that’s why when statements come in the scripture we have to see who is speaking and then we can understand whether that is absolute truth or that is just some other statement made for a particular motive is it clear? ok I think we are supposed to stop at 1 or 1.30 nobody knows ok anyway 1 o’clock we are supposed to stop 1.15 ok last question then we can start with questions after Achyut Mohantra we will take afterwards see now to my understanding what I read in Sandarbha’s he doesn’t explain what it means when a past time is a surmohan does it mean that the past time never happened or the past time is enacted by the lord in such a way that people can come to wrong conclusions for those who want it now the Bhagavatam does not say that Krishna did not leave behind a body that is the point which is said it is acknowledged that he didn’t leave behind a body but that was not the normal way a soul leaves behind a body that was created for the purpose of illusion so I am not saying that if you look at the other past time which are surmohan that means the past time does happen in a particular way but its meaning can be easily misunderstood by those who want to misunderstand and they can stay in illusion so even if such a past time has happened in the spiritual world that whole cursing is not because of anger and short temperedness it is by the arrangement of the lord is it clear? so let’s continue in the afternoon yeah ok ok why does Krishna not give more knowledge about the spiritual world as I said that the primary focus of the Bhagavad Gita is it is an action orientated book Arjuna is in the battlefield and he has to fight a war so he has to have some conception of the absolute truth supreme sadhya and he has to have some understanding of the sadhana so neither of these sadhya and sadhana are exhaustively described because it is not that Arjuna is lacking in that knowledge see what Arjuna is lacking in is what I should do so it is not that Arjuna doesn’t know about the spiritual world it is not that Arjuna doesn’t know about karma yoga, bhakti yoga, gyan yoga it is that whether that is the highest that is what is to be understood in the Bhagavad Gita that is what is to be explained in the Bhagavad Gita so that is why in general Krishna focusses primarily on explaining what is the sadhya and what is the sadhana among the various options that are there but he doesn’t go into details of describing the details of a particular sadhya or a particular sadhana so that is why there is no exhaustive description of the spiritual world as we said there is no exhaustive description of bhakti bhakti establishes supreme similarly the spiritual world and the personal aspect of God will be established as supreme but further details one has to refer to other sources for that how many references are there to the spiritual world 8.21, not 20, 8.21 then 15.6 I think these two are there 18.62 is a very general reference that is not describing the spiritual world in much detail but there is some reference to it so I think three references just two quick points about this verse first point is that Krishna uses the word pavakha, pavakha is fire prabhupada adds electricity over there so we have discussed this in Aishwarya Upanishad classes that you know a translation, now there is one explanation for this if you look at the Aishwarya Upanishad a verse is quoted from the Chandogya Upanishad where a similar flow of thought is there and there pavakha and vidyutaha is also there so prabhupada is giving us what is implied although it is not explicitly stated so electricity is also mentioned but more importantly is the translation is always a balance between precision and relevance translation is always a balance between precision is exactly staying what was originally stated and then relevance is saying it in a way that is accurate now sometimes precision can lead to irrelevance because imagine sometimes especially if you are actually doing translations, if you hear an English sentence and you try to translate it into Hindi then if you just try to find out the grammatically exact word for each of each word and then try to translate it, often the meaning is just not conveyed in a way that is understandable for people that’s why till now the machine translators have not been very successful you could just have dictionary, English dictionary Hindi dictionary and Google translate is a programme but you know it comes up with many errors, why? because a machine cannot understand meanings machine can say this word has this many meanings, this word has this many meanings so there is a whole history about how they tried to have a machine programme and there is a biblical saying, the spirit is strong but the flesh is weak that means a person wants to make spiritual advancement but the temptations drag him down so they got to translate into German and in Russian and they used a set of computer programmes for that and then the translation that came in the sorry, the spirit is strong but the flesh is weak so they translated, the vodka is strong but the meat is rotten laughter laughter laughter so laughter the vodka is a Russian wine so the vodka is strong, so the spirit is strong, spirit was actually spirit of acting, spirit of writing, spirit became alcohol, it became vodka and the flesh is weak became the meat is rotten so it became completely meaningless so that’s why translation is an art and what the emphasis here is that actually there is no external luminosity that is required so if Prabhupada is speaking to an audience where there is, where most people’s lives are not illuminated by sun, moon or the stars or fire, they are using electricity for illumination so Prabhupada is communicating that point of no need for external luminosity by making it relevant to the audience the relevance is no electricity also so it’s not necessarily it’s not necessarily invalid addition, it’s a relevant presentation and Sashanka, Surya and Pavaka these also represent they are literal things also but they also represent you know, the three faculties of cognition we see we speak, we think and that’s how we understand so the sun, Surya is connected with seeing when there is light, we see then the Sashanka the mind, the moon is connected with the mind in full moon days or new moon days people sometimes become mentally unstable the moon is the demigod of the mind so and Pavaka, fire, fire is connected with speech, he gave a fiery speech so the idea is that abode means that abode is not visible to the eye it is not conceivable by the mind and it is not describable by the speech so that abode is entirely transcendental we can just give some indications of it but it is not visible to the eye it is not conceivable by the mind it is not describable by speech so thank you very much