How can meat-eaters reincarnate in human bodies as past life memories cases suggest?

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
In many of the past life memory cases, which we used to talk about reincarnation, to demonstrate reincarnation, illustrate it, there are people who were meat-eaters, but they seem to again come back in a human body. But Lord Chaitanya said that somebody who eats meat, they will have to take many many births in animal species. So how do we understand this? There are certain statements which are made in scripture, which are true, but they need not be true in an absolute sense.
They are meant to demonstrate the gravity of a particular action. Say for example, it may be said that if somebody kills an animal, then they will become that animal, that animal will become a human being, and that animal will kill them. Now is it that it is going to happen for every single incident like that? It is also said that karma is very difficult to understand.
Now this is so simple. I kill an animal, the animal kills me. What is the difficulty in this? So this is a possibility.
But this is not a necessity. It may be that the principle here is that if we have done some bad karma, we will get a reaction for that. And that reaction will also be serious.
But specifically, what reaction we will get, what form the reaction will come in, that will vary. It is not that every single person who kills an animal will have to necessarily become an animal and be killed by that soul. Now if that soul, the soul who has an animal’s body, that comes to human body and that person becomes a devotee.
Now still is it that they have to kill an animal? They have given me a predicate, why will they kill an animal? So the point is that these are possibilities that can happen and the possibility is given as an example to demonstrate the principle that actions have reactions. Specific forms may vary. How a particular reaction comes.
And having said that, there is also the other principle that Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, those who live in the mode of passion, they stay in this world. Those who live in ignorance, they go down to lower species. Those who live in goodness, go up.
Those who are in passion, they stay at this level of reality. That means you can say they come back as human beings. So most people do live in the mode of passion and that’s how they can come back as human beings.
Another point is that our next life is not determined simply by our actions in this lifetime. The karma from our past lives also comes into the picture. So somebody by their past life’s karma may be meant to get this human birth and another human birth also.
So now the karma which they have done in this life, it will have its reactions. It may come in the human life itself in some terrible form of distresses that they may get. So the principle is that action will produce reaction.
Apart from that, the details are immensely valuable. So we don’t necessarily have to say that now when we say one who eats meat, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is there talking about not just an animal, he is specifically talking about a cow. Somebody who kills a cow, there are some very grievous reactions for that.
But meat-eating has always been a part of human society. And meat-eating has been a part of Vedic culture also. The kings would hunt and they would not just hunt for exhibition.
Some of them would hunt for exhibition. In the first canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, Prabhupada says that, he talks about the king Rantideva. He says although he is a Kshatriya, he never ate meat.
Now what does it mean? Kshatriyas would normally eat meat. Now what does that mean? That simply means that, if Kshatriyas have to go for war, when they are going for war, if they have to go to the distant forested lands, at that time you cannot carry grains with you all the time. And grains would go in the forest.
So if somebody has to do a lot of physical hard work, the fighting is exhausting work, at that time, simply by fruits, sages who are doing austere life, they can eat fruits and roots and they can live. But soldiers who are going on expedition, where they need physical strength, they can’t carry grains all the time with them. And even if grains are there, you know grains have to be cultivated, grains have to be coked.
So how would they do? If they are in the forest, they would shoot animals and eat them. So in the Bhagavatam 11th canto also there is a verse that, intoxication, sex, illicit sex and meat-eating. These are the normal ways of people’s living.
But serious spiritualists avoid them. Bhutanam, for most living beings, this is the common way of living. But if one can do Nivrutta, then Mahaphalam, a great fruit is awaiting us.
So, if we look at overall what Srila Prabhupada was saying, he was against meat-eating, but especially he was against the organized water houses, where people, where animals are cultivated like crops to be killed. This, the sheer scale of meat-eating and the sheer scale of cruelty against animals, that is unprecedented. Meat has always been a part of most human beings’ diet.
But, if you see, nature has also endured us. We have only a few canine teeth, which we can eat a little bit of meat. But we have never had the resources by which we could organize the waste water of thousands and millions of animals.
So, meat, for the people who would eat meat, it was one part of their diet. But now, for most people, meat is almost a part of every meal. And that is considered the major source of nourishment.
And the way it is done is also very, very brutal. So, we have to understand the context in which Srila Prabhupada said certain things. So, in the Vedic culture, there were Yudhishthira’s going up to the mountains, Padarika ashram.
There were many Brahmins coming with him. At that time, one time he says that, these are all venerable ones. Now, we are going up and food will be very scarce over there.
So, those of you who cannot live without meat, you can go somewhere else. I will not be able to provide you that. In this forested area, there is nothing available.
That means, even Brahmins used to eat meat. You say, how can Brahmins eat meat? Actually, it is that, there are sattva guna, rajo guna, tamo guna, three modes and there are forms of worship also accordingly. So, there in the forms of tamo guna, then the goddess is to be worshipped.
Then meat is a part of the worship of the goddess. Now, who is going to do that worship? There are Brahmins for that purpose also. So, now those Brahmins are also respected as Brahmins.
But they are not the Brahmins who are followed by those who are Vaishnavas or those who are doing worship in sattva guna, rajo guna. So, we don’t have to become excessively judgmental about people who are eating meat. We have to look at the context and we definitely want to avoid, we would like that slaughterhouses close down.
Especially, Prabhupada would say that even if you can’t give up eating meat, at least wait for the animal to die naturally. Then you can take their meat. Don’t kill the animal, don’t kill the cows.
So, the principle is, cruelty against animals has to be avoided and meat can be minimized as much as possible. But we don’t have to become very judgmental. And we can’t make any definitive statement.
Just because when somebody has eaten meat, they are going to go to animal species. Well, what does it mean? If once in a lifetime they eat meat, that is going to happen? Or throughout the lifetime? Or is it that once in a lifetime and throughout the lifetime both have similar consequences? No, there is so much variability in how karma comes out. And we focus on just trying to use whatever knowledge we have to serve Krishna.
So, if some people are remembering their past lives, and from empirical perspective, it seems to be a reasonable case that all these things they are remembering, but there is no logical way which they could have known unless they were that person, then in a provisional sense, we can accept that this person reincarnated this person. This is not Shastra Vaak. We are not going to say this is absolute truth.
But this is something which can be used for people to get some faith in the principles of the Bhagavad Gita. It is like in medicine, if you want to demonstrate a particular disease. One time I was admitted in a hospital.
Since my birth, I have a hole in my heart. So, it is a small hole. So, once I was admitted in a government hospital.
And then, because I had this VSD, so it is like the whole medical school, they were studying the heart. They all came to examine me. Almost like 120 students came.
They were all putting their stethoscope on my heart. And they were examining me. So, can you hear the irregular heartbeat? Now, the point is that, if a doctor wants to teach a particular medical issue, now, if the doctor waits for an ideal case to come up, they are not going to get an ideal case.
So, if you want to show how serious heart problems can be, that person has cholesterol also, this person has this also, this also, then you may be able to see that in a very serious way. But in one case, all the principles that a doctor wants to teach, demonstrate may not come. Doctor may teach one principle to one case, and another principle to another case.
So, we can’t expect, if you want to give some empirical evidence for spiritual principles, we can’t expect one case to demonstrate all those principles. So, we use one case for one purpose. Now, that way we can say that, anybody who takes prasad also, they will always get a human body.
That’s what Prabhupada also said. Anybody who touches my books will get a human body. Anybody who practices a little bhakti also, they will never lose their human form.
And Bharat Maharaj had practiced so much bhakti, that he had gone to a, he was almost near the stage of prema, his bhava, his criteria of love, and yet he became a deer. So, how did that happen? Now, in this particular pastime, what is demonstrated is, the principle that, if you remember, whatever you remember at the time of death, that’s how you will attain. What about the principle that you will never lose the human form of life? No, that principle doesn’t apply over here.
It’s not that in one case all principles will apply. That principle’s essentials apply, that if you have practiced bhakti once, you will not lose the opportunity to practice bhakti. The human form is normally the opportunity or the facility to practice bhakti.
So, in that deer, in Bharat Maharaj’s case, when he became a deer, as a consequence of the action, in a material and spiritual parallel streams, so at a material level, the action had the reaction that he lost the human form and he got a deer’s body. But at a spiritual level, in a deer’s body also he had, so he had actually the consciousness of a spiritually advanced human being, that still he was going to the sages and he was hearing spiritual vibrations from them. So, sometimes in working in real life, one principle may take precedence, another principle is not rejected.
But other principle’s application may be appropriately modified. So, we can’t have a test case, where all the principles will be demonstrated. So, we say that the principle of karma is also there and the principle of karma will also apply.
Those who are eating meat, they will also get the reactions for that. But we can’t expect that in one case, both the reactions of karma also come and also that a person remembers the past life also. It’s like no medical study will ever have an ideal case and never wait to teach till they get the ideal case.
They use whatever case is there and they teach them. Similarly with us also.