If even sinful devotees are considered saintly should we not look for trustworthiness in relating with devotees?

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
in Bhagavad Gita 9.13 it is stated that even if one commits very sinful activities still one is considered to be a devotee one should be considered saintly does that mean that a devotee should not be judged according to one’s actions past or present if one is a devotee especially if one is seeking a relationship of faith and trust ok if one is seeking a relationship of faith and trust I suppose this means that we are considering whether a particular devotee is trustworthy and if that devotee is say behaving in some immoral way so should we not look for morality now this particular 9.13 has been a matter of enormous commentaries in our tradition right starting from Sridhar Swami Jeeva Goswami Vishwanath Singh Thakur Vande Vidya Ramacharya Madhavacharya all of them have commented elaborately on what this verse means that even if a devotee commits sinful activities still such a devotee should be considered a saintly so I will just go to Sanskrit and I will explain what it is so I will just tell the four lines and in itself we will see a contradiction we will see how the Acharya does all that a that even if a devotee commits sinful activity if that devotee perseveres on the path of bhakti then that sinful tendency will gradually be overcome and that devotee will give up the sinful activity and this verse is talking about the potential saintliness of that devotee that devotee is considered saintly because eventually that devotee will become saintly that is related with kshiprambhavdi dharmatma sasvachanti nitya kaunteya patjani nami that is 9.31 soon my devotee will become dharmik so bhakta gives the most fascinating explanation of this verse he says that actually there are 3 levels being talked about suduracharo is sinful then bhajate mam anyabhag is actually taking a pure devotee its very advanced devotion so and then what it says in 9.31 is kshiprambhavdi dharmatma person will become dharmatma so now why are there 3 levels talked about over here he is saying that somebody commits sinful activity that means that is at the 3rd level lowest level somebody is undeviatedly practicing top level and somebody dharmatma dharmatma is not necessarily bhakti dharma can be maintained dharma also so how will a person who is performing ananya bhakti why is that person considered dharmatma dharmatma means like punyavan so paap punya and shuddha bhakti all 3 are there in the same sequence so how do we reconcile this so bhakta nathapur says that this verse refers to the gopis he says from the world’s point of view when krishna played the flute and called the gopis and the gopis left their families and went away in the middle of night to respond to krishna’s call so from the world’s point of view this is sudhracharo how can somebody leave one’s family and go away to meet some other person like this but actually they were doing bhajatema ananya bhakti they were performing unalloyed devotional service and therefore sadhuneva samanta they should be considered saintly because their determination was fixed on krishna and then he says kshipram bhavati dharmatma shashvat shantim nigachati he says that kshipram soon who will become a dharmatma here he says this the subject of the verse applies not to those who are doing durachara but those who are mantavya those who consider saintly that means he says that those who consider the gopis saintly just by considering them saintly the people will become dharmatma so they will become elevated this is quite a rasic explanation he gives a rasic ranjan so the point i am making from all this variety of explanations is that this verse cannot be simplistically used as a license for whitewashing one’s sinful activities whatever sinful activities i do because i am a devotee you should consider me saintly that is not at all the mood of this verse at all none of the acharyas have explained it like that so the essential mood is the mood of Krishna’s compassion the point of this verse is that a devotee gets hope that there is nothing that i can do that can stop Krishna from loving me there is nothing no activity no matter how sinful it may be that anyone can do that will make Krishna stop loving that person but love is never one way Krishna’s love is shown by his willingness to accept a devotee even if the devotee does something very wrong but our love for him is not shown by doing all wrong things our love for him is shown by trying to live as purely as possible so a devotee doesn’t see this verse as a license for doing wrong activities a devotee sees Krishna is so loving so accommodating that even if i do something like this still Krishna will love me why should i ever leave such a lord and seek happiness anywhere else seek love anywhere else let me just focus on loving such a lord so a devotee sees this the love evident in this verse as an inspiration for intensifying with bhakti not laxing one not making one’s bhakti lax now specifically with respect to our conduct or our relationships Vishwachit Kathakur says that if somebody is chanting Hare Krishna if somebody is practicing the limbs of bhakti yoga such a person should be respected as a devotee but if that person’s conduct is not proper then such respect should be offered from a distance we should not closely associate with the person because whoever we associate with we get affected by those qualities so if somebody is falling into some wrong activities now if we are in a position of close relationship where we can guide that person that is good otherwise we keep a distance we understand that something is going on between that devotee and Krishna and Krishna will take care of it or if it’s our position we can inform the guides or counsellors or whoever of that devotee but it is not that we have to turn a blind eye and whatever faults a person has because that person is doing the activities of bhakti so I should consider same now our relationships have to be based on trustworthiness so we if we just start trusting everyone just because that person is chanting Hare Krishna now not only will our faith in that person be shattered but our faith in that person’s bhakti will also get shattered that’s why one of the things that is talked about is of a medium level devotee the medium level devotee that the devotee discerns who is at what level and accordingly associates so if you want to develop any relationship yes the person’s devotional inclination is important but along with that the person’s trustworthiness is also important if the person is behaving in the wrong ways then we can respect that person as a devotee but we can’t develop a very close relationship that this verse we should use it to know that I should not become so the word was used judged I would say not judge judging normally the word judging conveys that I had a superior position just like in a court a judge sits at a high position and judges others so we never put ourselves in a superior position and think that oh this person is like this this person is like this but we do need to discern we need to discriminate based on what is best for us so this understand this consider that you know this world is like a hospital more specifically Krishna Consciousness is like a hospital and different people have come with different infections so I don’t want to associate with someone to get the infection of that person so I want to take treatment and I want to get inspiration for taking the treatment so if somebody is infected in a way that is likely to be harmful to me then I don’t consider that I am purer than that person I am superior to that person but I am not in a position where I can benefit that person nor is the association of that person going to benefit me so I will respect from a distance so relationship should also have not just the component of the external performance of devotion of a particular person but also the conduct should be trustworthy does it answer the question